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(was Identity but we deviated to religion)

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Jessica:

--- Quote ---To the credit of the true believers I think they’d just see themselves as evil rather than being twofaced, though I’d expect a good number to try and rationalize it so they aren’t evil.
--- End quote ---
Not 'Evil' necessarily, just 'damned'

My wife is convinced that I am possessed by a demon, she has talked to her mother and her aunt and that is what they have concluded.  Her Aunt is a member of a Spiritual Healing Pentacostal Church and after the three of them discussing my feelings, they came to the conclusion that I have a demon in me.

I told her I would try ALL avenue's of approach.  I certainly did not see this reaction from her coming, but I suppose it helps her to have something to blame.  I went to her aunt's church at her my wife's request on Sunday and was prayed over by one of her aunt's friends.  Obvious to anyone that feels the same way I do, it was very unnerving, and of course, I don't feel at all different.  I was kind of hoping that God would say, okay enough is enough and I would burst into flames and come out of there the way I should have been born 30 years ago, but sadly, this has never happened despite all of my prayers and beliefs to the contrary in my younger years.  I think that would be the only way that my wife would accept this.

In remark to the feeling evil part.  It's not really 'evil' more like 'damned'  I am religious, in fact I am very religious.  I have a difficult time with churches because many of them twist the words of the bible into manipulative and coy tactics to gain money, but I am religious

You all may have a difficult time with the conclusion and so do I sometimes.  It goes something like this:

1. God is infallible, meaning he doesn't makes mistakes.
2. I was created as I am for a reason.
3. The only reason I would be created this way is to be 'tested' in some way.
4. A Christan places God's needs and wants above his or her own.  He or she must live according to the Bible.
5. This means that since God doesn't make mistakes, that I should put his plan ahead of mine.
6. I can't live like this anymore.  I am absolutely sure of this, it's a state of hopelessness that is causing me a lot of pain.  Who I am, my dreams, desires, feelings, my hope... it's ... I don't want to sound dramatic... but it's dying and being replaced with an 'live day by day and take a step closer to the grave' outlook.

Anyway, the logic involved.
In the bible (somewhere) it says if your hand causes you to sin, it's better to remove it.
Same with your eye.
(That part above is in the bible)
And if it's your soul?  I guess biblically, the only way for me to make things right with God is ... well you get the idea.

An Interesting aside.  Thou Shalt not Murder is explicitly stated that way, as Murder.  Killing is not wrong and God supported, through numerous examples Killing in Warfare, Killing for Food, etc.  Murder however is wrong, but it is, by definition, done to another person.  There are 4 commandments that deal with your relationship with God, and 6 that deal with your relationship to others. There are none that deal with your relationship to yourself.  NOWHERE in the bible, old or new testament, does it EVER say that the taking of your own life is wrong, in fact, Samson, after being caught by the Phillistines prayed to God to grant him the strength to take down the building on his own head and in doing so killed both himself and many of his enemies.  Since his prayer was granted, and knowing full well that the result of his prayer would cause his own death, he did it anyway and it was granted!  It is the mainstream catholic fallicy that all suicides go to hell.  This is not, and never has been, at all, in any way, shape or form, the viewpoint of the bible.  In short, there is no biblical evidence to support this Catholic view.  Unfortunately, this Catholic view has spread to many other Christian religions today.

The viewpoint I take is, this is a battle, without a doubt.  But it is a battle with all the lines blurred, and I am the only one fighting on the battlefield, so at the very least, I would be a casualty of a battle that I both won and lost.

I am going to talk to a Unitarian? Minister today after work, my Dad is insisting on it and I really need to find answers.  I am sure God has them for me somewhere, but I can't find them.  I have tried looking on my own for years.  I have read the New Testament cover to cover.  I haven't run across anything that says I am going to be spiritually okay because I can't ask forgiveness for who I am and really mean it.  I haven't ever been able to talk about this with anyone before until recently so I am going to take advantage of my newfound courage, most of which I attribute to this website and the wonderful, loving, and accepting people that are on here, and talk to a minister and see if there are any answers.

Anyway, as a Christian, I don't feel evil.  Just damned if I do, damned if I don't.
[edit](4years)Changed subject to be more descriptive; Of note this was part of the Identity thread, if you feel like you have came into the conversation mid way thought that is why, you have![/edit]

Susan:

--- Quote from: Jessica on July 05, 2005, 09:39:42 am ---Not 'Evil' necessarily, just 'damned'

3. The only reason I would be created this way is to be 'tested' in some way.
4. A Christan places God's needs and wants above his or her own.  He or she must live according to the Bible.

--- End quote ---

John 3:16. How can you take a God who has shown love in the way that is repeatedly demonstrated in the bible and assume that God wants to torture you for some obscure plan. I clearly see God as being above the pettiness that you see in the bible which is much more reflective of man than god. Look at Job could any truly loving God do that to someone who adored God in deed and action? God making bets and dares with Satan? Come on. God wants one thing from mankind, Our love. God wants us to love our fellow man, God wants us to love God. However God loves us enough to allow us the free will to chose to love rather than being forced to pretend to love out of a fear of an eternity of damnation in the fires of hell. The bible is about control of man by man. God and Jesus is about so much more.

Live your life. Follow your heart, and the teachings of your faith. God isn't limited to a building or book.  Treat others in the way you wish to be treated by them.  Find ways to help others without the expectation of return.

I am gonna reveal this to give you an idea otherwise I would keep it secret. I am not wealthy however I have a fund. Not of stocks but of life. I give a local restaurant money to keep on account so that no one who goes in there hungry walks out that way even if they have no money.  You can recognize them a lot of times they go in and get coffee and nothing else. I was sitting there eating one day when the waitress asked an old man next to me if he wanted something to eat.  I heard him tell her that he could not afford to. The next day I started my fund. It's only been used 3-4 times but it has been used.

This is the essence of what being a Christian means. Look for God in yourself because God is a part of everything living or not. Find ways to help those who are in need of help. I see this website as one extension of that. However this isn't a Christian place just a human one.

4years:
Personally I am spiritual, but not religious.

I find the idea of being possessed by a daemon quite quaint, but really people should grow up. In my opinion, any religion that says killing is all right, in any shape or form… Well, I suggest taking a very long hard look at the whole picture. For that matter, if the religion has some method of scaring you (sin, hell, etc.) into behaving (how they want), one should also look very closely. Personally I don’t care what anyone else thinks, but I think it is a (painful) shame to live a life with a closed mind.

For what it is worth, my point of view is not that of a battle, rather one of exploration and discovery, contemplation and acceptance.

Question, why do you need forgiveness for who you are?
In my opinion no one in creation has a right to judge you and hence forgive you save one person. YOU.

If the answer is not found I suggest setting religion (not God, not what you believe, just what OTHER PEOPLE think you should believe) aside for a time. Perhaps you have out grown it.

Jessica:
Okay.  I went to a Catholic School from 1st through 4th grade and remember my religion classes.  Many of my viewpoints on religion date back to that.  For instance, the reason for suffering.  It was brought up, and I remember this really well, why does God make bad things happen to people is I believe the EXACT way my friend Gabrielle phrased the question.  I think her cat had died and she wanted an answer as to why. 

The answer was presented as follows.  When you blow glass it stretches, conforms to your will, and makes some truely beautiful shapes and creations.  However, sometimes, the glass shatters when it is being cooled, or it does not make the proper shape that the Glass Blower wanted.

We are the shapes of glass and God is the Glass Blower.  Our trials in life, our victories, in fact, everything we do in life molds us into these beautiful and unique shapes.  Our conciensce helps us to know the shape we are supposed to take. However, not everyone makes it.  Just like not all pieces of glass make it.

For instance, you mentioned Job.  Yes, I believe God does love us, just as he loved Job, but without suffering and pain in our lives we would never be molded into the shapes / spirits that God wants us to be.

Had Job never been tested and overcome his trials, he would not have been the shape that God wanted to be.

I adopted an extension of this.  My mother used to say that God will never give us more than we can withstand.
Which means, some people are meant to be plates or glasses while others might be meant to be wonderous, incredible shapes that we can't even begin to imagine.  These mundane shapes are no more or less important to God than the beautiful shapes that some peoples lives forge them into being.  It all depends on the level of testing though.  Depending on how much our souls can withstand and how much we go through and overcome in our lives.  Everyone is tested to their ability and no more.  Some fail, and some succeed.

Yes, it is a very simplistic first grade explination for suffering, but I have yet to hear anything better.

That is why God tests us.

*edited to add the following*
I forgot to tie it back in to my original post. 
The reason I feel damned is that I don't feel that there is a way in which I am not going to 'shatter.'
I mean, I will never know unless I do something about it.
As it stands right now, if I continue on my path, there is no doubt about my shattering.
I have begun to turn from that path, however the path that now stands before me, I don't know if I will survive that either.
It leads me into a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' feeling.


Jessica

Susan:

--- Quote from: Jessica on July 05, 2005, 03:53:01 pm ---Okay.  I went to a Catholic School from 1st through 4th grade and remember my religion classes.  Many of my viewpoints on religion date back to that.  For instance, the reason for suffering.  It was brought up, and I remember this really well, why does God make bad things happen to people is I believe the EXACT way my friend Gabrielle phrased the question.  I think her cat had died and she wanted an answer as to why. 

The answer was presented as follows.  When you blow glass it stretches, conforms to your will, and makes some truely beautiful shapes and creations.  However, sometimes, the glass shatters when it is being cooled, or it does not make the proper shape that the Glass Blower wanted.

We are the shapes of glass and God is the Glass Blower.  Our trials in life, our victories, in fact, everything we do in life molds us into these beautiful and unique shapes.  Our conciensce helps us to know the shape we are supposed to take. However, not everyone makes it.  Just like not all pieces of glass make it.
--- End quote ---

Exactly we are as god made us God didn't make us this way so that we would be forced to fight, to try, or to be something other than God made us to be. When you fight what you are then you have the pain, the glass shattering. Do you think that God was somehow incapable of forming exactly the shape desired when we were aimed at whatever the final goal.


--- Quote from: Jessica on July 05, 2005, 03:53:01 pm ---For instance, you mentioned Job.  Yes, I believe God does love us, just as he loved Job, but without suffering and pain in our lives we would never be molded into the shapes / spirits that God wants us to be.

Had Job never been tested and overcome his trials, he would not have been the shape that God wanted to be.
--- End quote ---

Why would God need to test the creations. Are you saying that God lacks faith, that God is in some way unsure of the creation. That God does not trust in the very tools God made for whatever tasks God needed them for? That is a sign of a lack of faith in yourself. Something that a diety wouldn't have need of.


--- Quote from: Jessica on July 05, 2005, 03:53:01 pm ---I adopted an extension of this.  My mother used to say that God will never give us more than we can withstand. Which means, some people are meant to be plates or glasses while others might be meant to be wonderous, incredible shapes that we can't even begin to imagine.  These mundane shapes are no more or less important to God than the beautiful shapes that some peoples lives forge them into being.  It all depends on the level of testing though.  Depending on how much our souls can withstand and how much we go through and overcome in our lives.  Everyone is tested to their ability and no more.  Some fail, and some succeed.
--- End quote ---

God sets the lives on the path we are responsible for the rest. We alone are responsible for the love or the hate we show our
fellow man. We alone are to answer the question when we reach our final destination; why. Why would God give one billionth of a second of a thought to the fact that we are what God intended us to be,  imperfect.


--- Quote from: Jessica on July 05, 2005, 03:53:01 pm ---That is why God tests us.

--- End quote ---


God does not test us we test ourselves. Sadly most people fail that test.

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