Author Topic: Becoming more active.  (Read 16282 times)

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Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2005, 03:16:29 pm »
 "we all just have to get to better place of unconditional acceptance and loving "

And you go on with the "unconditional acceptance" value.  It is what I was talking about.  All things have conditions.  To expect otherwise is to be naieve.  Even to be granted special considerations as a handicapped individual you must be able to prove and confirm your status as actually being handicapped and so forth, just running around in a wheel chair without medical documentation you actually need it will not get you so much as a parking permit.  You can't drive a car in this country unless you can prove insurance responsibility and legal age to do so, yet the TG community wants to be accepted as being members of the opposite sex and have full recognition as being of the opposite sex without having to show any cause at all to accept them as such other then they say they are, or don't have other psychological problems or fetishes which have notihng to do with actual Gender identity issues. thus no qualifying proof of opposite Gender status.

This is the crux of the problem in political circles.  While there are those who can produce the documentation of experts who agree with thier view of themselves and have fully commited themselves to achieving that recognition and have braved all obsticles in order to do so, there are others (the far greater majority of TG community) who will not accept the problems associated with doing so, and have in no way made any steps to confirm thier own beliefs and have not shown the public in any way why they should be granted any special rights other then that they themselves want it.
 
Within the actually committed segment, all that can be done has and is being done to address discrimination (within the guidlines TG community insists on) against those that show no visable or believable commitment, but the greater majority of the TG community complains about being betrayed by the G&L because all they get in existing laws is freedom from discrimination over identification factors but do not get complete and free access to bathrooms and places of nudity, or special working conditions reserved for individual sexes or the right to be universally be accepted by all and any as actually being what they believe they are even though members of the opposite birth sex do not see them as one of their own and accept them as such on a personal level. 

They tend to forget that those with the greatest commitment and the most to lose must also live under the restrictions of the laws that are able to get passed in the political invironment.  These are in fact being held back by the unreasonable demands of the greater majority of the community and are critized by the community for having reason to be resentful of it, but yet these in the minority(so very few of the whole) still attempt to work for the greater good of all the community even though they have personal reservations for continuing to do so.

No Anna, Unconditional is unacceptable unless you have earned that right and status among those who must grant it.  It would be the hieght of stupidity for it to be otherwise and is not logical or safe to conduct your life in such a way.  Everything must be earned, nothing can be given for free as everything has a price tag in the end that someone must pay, even if not yourself, so when something is given, it has to be because it has been earned, not just because you want it.

the full identification and use rights must be defined according to the actual need of specific individuals in order to be politically workable, yet it is this very concept that the majority of the community is against, since they know they would only qualify for the anti-discrimination rights which is all they actually need, but do not want to be restricted to.  And because of this, The few who are irrevocably and undeniably committed to no return to what they were born as must suffer in a way no CD or TV could even imagine.  NO appology for how that statement sounds as the truth can not be oppologised for.

And again, I am all for anti-descrimination rights for the majority of the community who haven't got a clue as to what the real deal is all about, but I believe the totally and irrevocably committed full time individuals not only NEED but DESERVE less restrictive atmospheres not given or granted to the rest.  But then they can't push for that without drawing fire from the very community they try thier best to help.

Terri

Sandi

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2005, 03:41:03 pm »
Quote from: Terri
In the first place, The Transgender community refuses to define it self, who is and who is not.  While I understand this from within the community it flys politically like a lead ballon.  It is asking for rights for a specific group which has subgroups which have different diredtion in thier goals and social needs while giving no understandable or workable definition of why some sub groups actually need the gender specific rights of the minority whithin it. .  The refuse to differentuate the importance or need for different segments of the group as a whole.  If one segment is documented and medically evaluated to deserve and need a specific right then the TG community wants that right for anybody and everybody even if having it would have no effect on thier daily lives and is not needed because of the way they identify in public and at work, school etc.

Exactly, and I couldn't begin to say it so well.

Not just here but at every TG site that I am aware of we are to pretend that we are all alike. Hogwash. We need to respect one another and respect each others views, but to say that we all have the same needs is a cognitive dissonance that drives a wedge separating beliefs from "reality." Accommodation and assimilation are not the same thing.

Quote from: Terri
It is asking the mainstream to give up privacy and peace of mind to people who give nothing but the fact that they wear some form of female attire on occassion, while fully identifying as their birth sex in thier public life,but with no medical documentation of any need to do so, or proof of injury to themselves if they don't have full inclusive rights of recognition within the opposite sex.

Yep, for example how can we expect society to accept those that are 24/7/365 female to the core in their restrooms, when we also ask them to under the same umbrella accept weekend-only part time women, who cheerfully love their role as male the rest of the week? It only keeps those that really don't have a choice from receiving understanding. Nor will I back legislation for restroom acceptance unless it narrows its scope as such.

Accept each other, yes of course, and respect each other even when we don't agree,  but never will I accede that our needs are the same, nor can a lot of our legislative needs be fought for successfully as one wide "all transgender" group.


Sandi

Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2005, 03:45:55 pm »
Thank you for your understanding of my remarks Sandi.  Until the TG community as a whole comes to terms with the reality of the issue, it will always be an uphill fight for less then any of us need.

Terri

Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2005, 04:14:50 pm »
 "Yep, for example how can we expect society to accept those that are 24/7/365 female to the core in their restrooms, when we also ask them to under the same umbrella accept weekend-only part time women, who cheerfully love their role as male the rest of the week? It only keeps those that really don't have a choice from receiving understanding. Nor will I back legislation for restroom acceptance unless it narrows its scope as such"

Another part of the issue which many tend to overlook or not care about.  As a community the greatest focus is on the MtF side of the issue.  What about our brothers in the FtM side of it?

It is just another example of the male oriented viewpoint and concern within the TG community as a whole and in public conciousness.  There is so much focus on the MtF side of it and it's often unreasonable demands and expectations that the FtM side is shoved aside and suffers accordingly, it is why the Gay population seperated into G&L segments in the first place.  All focus and activity was oriented toward the male need and focus, even at the expense of the female population, thus they were forced to identify seperately in order to have thier voices heard and taken seriously.

The actual Male identity of most of the MtF segment in effect overpower the female viewpoint of MtF's who are fully identified as female and makes the FtM viewpoint almost invisable to the public and delays or prevents passage of laws which they need just as much.  How much longer must we continue to expect the unreasonable within the MtF side before the FtM feels it necessary to split from us in order to have thier own viewpoints heard and understood before the MtF segment gets a clue?

Once the fully identified seperate along with the full support of FtM's, in order to sufficiently address their very real issues which are being ignored by the rest, how far do you think the Male Identified supposedly MtF's will get fighting on thier own without them, since it would seem most all of the actual work is done by these groups from within the community itself?

Terri

Edited to correct MtF errors at 3:37 my time
« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 05:38:45 pm by Terri-Gene »

Offline ChefAnnagirl

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Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2005, 04:17:14 pm »
This argument basically says that because my skin is lighter or darker than yours, or i speak a different language that you dont relate to from your own personal experience,
i am therefore not entitiled to be, nor express myself in the manner which i most honestly desire to do under the very same inalienable rights of all other beings to do so...

Again, i think this is an illusion of lies that the human community at large, whether straight or gay or bi or TG or TV or CD or otherwise has created to separate each other from one another...and all this does is continue the cycles of bigotry, separatism, and "ownership" of what consitiutes either one "correct" value or another, that have persisted for this long...
Ive been brutally persecuted as a child and lied to and tormented by others most of my life - so dont think for a minute that you're talking to someone that comes by such things blithely and unaware...

I feel that We are all part of ONE organsim, as a planet and a species, and the laws of natural "karmic" cause and effect as well as natural selection will always apply in effect, whether people accept that or like it or not.

I also feel that There are no real boundaries of country or culture as far as i am concerned, other than what we have all allowed to be manufactured and fostered for eons for overriding reasons of maintaining the undercurrent of political, economic, class structure, sexual prowess, social injustice, bigotry, and false religions, as humanity has evolved into its current state.

I understand the difficulties that many of the good points that you bring to the table, politically speaking, are in our current climate, and entirely valid in terms of extending protective rights and protections to those that truly posess the prerequisite committment to go through a process like this, as opposed to someone that uses it as a shield or other means of manipulating the system and others for personal gain and/or other reasons. Some indeed, due to other psychological or psychosocial problems that this or that person may or may not have that need to deal with accordingly - but who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to judge the validity of a single other person's experience unless you personally know them and have literally read their minds, thoughts, feelings, and motivations - I believe that THIS is the crux of the problem where something like unconditional trust and true acceptance among and across all social boundaries are concerened for people at present...
 
Instead of worrying about what we all could do positively, to make a global difference in the quality of life for every single one of us, and just accepting that those that are evil and negative and disingenous will be "taken care of", in time, by Karma, or God, and their own spirits, as well as those that will willingly choose to take them to task and expose them for what they are, i feel like we spend more time worrying about how to tear down, compartmentalize, label, judge, and regulate evreything and everyone else, based on what we think we "own" as being intellectually, politically, spiritually, or philosophically "correct"... I strongly believe that Anything of an untrue nature will, by virtue of its own faults, eventually be exposed as such - otherwise, the old adage of "innocent until proven gulity" was a strict measure and expression of complete and almost unconditional trust and acceptance extended, as an inalienable human right, to all persons until or unless proven otherwise...

Yes - call me crazy if you want, tell the world that you think its dangerous and invalid for me or anyone else to think and feel and live their lives that way, but it dosent make you "right" about it, dear sister(and i really mean that about you)...
 
Problem here is, that i strongly believe in karmic cause and effect based on the strength of my own personal life's experience and am trying to live my own life more and more so accordingly. They called or still now do, Jesus, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, John Lennon, and many other unconditionally loving, trusting and accepting people crazy, too, and  many were brutally killed exactly for being the unconditonally loving, forgiving and powerfully accepting persons that they were....

Oh well, so be it.... still gonna love and respect you anyway... as well as another 5 or 6 billion people that i haven't so far met personally as well...
I might not like a lot of what i see in others or what i see them do, but unless i can actually stand in their or your head for that matter, how can i truly draw complete or final judgement about you or them ? Its a difficult road to walk on top of everything else i still have to go through, but its one that i have gladly, consciously, and willingly accepted, no matter how difficult and thoroughly frustrating it can be... To claim the ability to judge the validity of another persons experience for them without personally having been witness to their experience from within them, is always going to be a LIE, no matter how you cut it.. Just like all the so called "polls" that say "80%" of the American people"; "65% of the American people"; "35% of all high school age students", 67% of all women over the age of 38," etc. etc. etc... Its all a pack of lies as far as i'm concerned because i'ts entirely subjective, mostly used for specific political or social gain by one group over another, and not based on the true and real experience of every single individual person supposedly being spoken for...

I WAS mainly just talking about human experience in general and how attitudes and feelings could obviously be adjusted to help prevent futher warfare, ignorance, bloodshed, lack of understanding of ourselves AND each other, persecution, false judgement, bigotry, animal cruelty, abuse of our environment, each other, - etc -etc... My post last before this one was taken ENTIRELY out of its intended context by Terri, as i was generally commenting on a need for a deeper global sense of caring, acceptance, loving attitude and communication amognst ALL people in general, as regards the current human condition, in something like a "desired" climate of greater fairness for all....

Sincerely,
Lovingly Always,


Annagirl
Level the playing field

Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2005, 04:38:15 pm »
  "This argument basically says that because my skin is lighter or darker than yours, or i speak a different language that you dont relate to from your own personal experience,
i am therefore not entitiled to be, or express myself in the manner which i most honestly desire to do under the very same inalienable rights of all beings to do so..."


No Anna, I do not believe you are properly interpeting the issue.  You speak of things that are obviously apparent or confirmable, and are not justifiable in terms of human to human relations.

I was speaking of things which can not be confirmed and which are contraditory by full observation and knowledge of actual living and identity conditions.  Within our own community, those that can produce the confirmation and are observable as accepting all conditons of acceptance by familiarity with thier lifestyle and relationships are overpowered by those who do not accept any need to confirm or even live by the standards of the group they wish to be accepted as.  Those that identify as the sex they were born as and want to be recognised as such EXCEPT when at such time they wish to present otherwise as opposed to those that fully accept the conditions of living, identifying and relating as the opposite birth sex.

You are discussing an intirely different concept of human rights which while is an ideal, is totally seperate from the gender issue and the problems associated with it.

Terri

Offline ChefAnnagirl

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Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2005, 04:49:11 pm »
Hi Terri -
As usual, we fight like siblings....

I hope you really read what i posted last, as i had barely finished editing it before your next response... I really wish we had a couple days to just sit and talk and debate our views with one another - I like you, and think you are quite brilliant in your intelligence and expression both... Glad you are here, and glad you came back - dont ever back off from your convictions - they are the glue which obviously gives your backbone the incredible strength that it has...

Ive said all i have to here, and will only further agree to disagree with you and others where certain aspects of this issues are concerned...Cop out ? maybe....
Preserving good relations in a good community when i realize the strength of our convictions are equally deep and i dont like fights unless i'm sure i can win - - Yes...

Thanks,

Lovingly always,


Annagirl
Level the playing field

Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2005, 05:23:00 pm »
Sorry Anna, having nothing constructive to do at the moment I have been sitting here at susans and so my replies have been quick.  Please believe I am in no way advocating any spliting or fragmentation of the TG community, only saying that fragmentation is being caused in the community because of the different needs and concerns of it's members and the failure of the community as a whole to address within itself the issues in a realistic and responsible manner which would ultimately alieviate the pain and suffering for us all.

My stong convictions and willingness to express them are the very reason I have been staying away from such things such as politics, activism and other subgroup discussions.  I stated I must get a grip and maintain that grip on myself when I returned to the board and I now believe myself to be in managable control of myself, though that is a subjective opinion.  Many find my views and observations objectionable because I tend to point out differences in subgroups rather then sameness as well as strong feelings about what is and what is not.

It is a result of having waited to long before addressing my own issues and of having prolonged the transitional process longer then it needed to be in order to address personal family issues and problems of my own first, which has proven to be a mistake on my part.  And as to transition itself, though I went into full identification years ago, it is only recently that I would say true transition, in the mental sense, has begun, despite the past appearances.

Such issues as politics and activism are much to personal to me and I have lived to long under the results of the present trend in such matters.  Yes, I do take it seriously and as you have said before, can be "brutal" about it, but it is not ment as such, it is just frustration with the real life conditions imposed by the "one size fits all" mentality which has no application in real life and politics.

Anybody out there is fully invited and welcome to disagree with me at any time on any level, as it helps me to maintain a balance within myself about what is publically appropriate and what is not, regardless of what is discussed and believed in more private circles.  If I can not successfully defend a particular point of view, then I must re-evaluate that view and determine why.  If I find a particular view to be in error of the facts, I will publically retract myself, but if not then no opologies will be made for what I can factually see and experience to be the truth of the matter.

Terri

Leigh

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2005, 01:04:37 am »
I am counting to 3000 before I make any replies to the previous posts.  The reason being that I tend to be much more outspoken than either Terri or Sandi!


On second thought.  Unconditional acceptance?  Does that mean that I accept a person who is cd identified as a woman?

Offline ChefAnnagirl

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Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2005, 01:36:51 am »
I cannot answer that question for you Leigh - you must answer that for yourself.
That is entirely up to you - it depends on the person, the situation, how they are asking to be identified or validated, how they claim to identify as themself, and, most importantly, however you feel you need to react or respond to them as your own personal preferences dictate - I dont think there is a "right" or "wrong" answer to that question, Leigh, it just depends on you and your own personal feelings on the subject - either way - you will be "right" for yourself, because that is the validity of exactly where you are as an individual, with that particular issue, at that specific moment in time, and your own life, feelings, and experiences -

If i met said "CD" in hypothetical question in a public place (or any other place for that matter),
i myself would prefer to allow them to be entitled to whatever level of respect for the human being that they are and what they must do in that moment to honestly and comfortably express themselves in that moment as i see them - as long as it IS their honest form of committed self expression [EDIT] 9:08am 7/18] "and they express themselves as such, or seem to desire to, or be honestly compelled to do so, by or for their own motivating factors, which i cannot and shall not intially judge, as i do not, at that point, suffieiciently know them in order to do so.... and they do so in what can be percieved as a genuine manner, until or unless proven otherwise, i will have to give them the benefit of the doubt, and continue to unconditionally extend these rights, respects , fairness, love, and all other considerations to them, again, until or unless they prove to be otherwise disingenous or destructive in any manner towards myself or others in any perceivable manner"

I would address them in the feminine nomer, if that is what they desired, just out of real decency, respect, and unconditional acceptance for them as a fellow human being and a person with valid needs as much as myself or anyone else in that moment i have met them - you just never know - they might decide in a couple years or a month from then that going all the way is going to be their course - or not - its just not my place to judge them and make that determination of whats right or wrong for them at that point - or any point for that matter - 
I always feel it would be lovingly better to try to really connect, make valid, open, respectful, and loving relations, and get the best out of it, in that moment -  no matter what my own personal preferences are - could end up being a close friendship or good personal or professional connection -one NEVER knows,  wouldnt you agree ?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 08:16:57 am by ChefAnnagirl »
Level the playing field

Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2005, 02:03:01 am »
Well come on Leigh, I'm just waiting to hear the other shoe drop ......

Terri.... who is ROFLMAO


Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2005, 02:18:29 am »
  "I would address them in the feminine nomer, if that is what they desired, just out of real decency, respect, and unconditional acceptance for them as a fellow human being "

I would agree with that but with some personal internal reservations. Again, that "unconditional" thing. Though I may address them as such in respect for feelings and PC, that doesn't mean however I would really feel that way about them unless it were evident to me, and thats just the way it is.  And so I guess you could say I would have tolerance, but acceptance is something I have to given from the heart, and if it isn't there it isn't there.  That is a thing that has to be earned in order to be given.

Hell, I get no better, so I don't see the problem.  I know of at least one place I could go where I may be considered Woman enough, but wouldn't be accepted on a ten foot pole.  there is a lot more to acceptance then you seem to consider.

Terri

Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2005, 02:39:58 am »
  "they must do in that moment to honestly and comfortably express themselves in that moment as i see them -  as long as it IS their honest form of committed self expression -"   [/u]
 " I would address them in the feminine nomer, if that is what they desired, just out of real decency, respect, and unconditional acceptance for them as a fellow human being and a person with valid needs as much as myself"

Thank you for proving my point.  It appears that in order to have your "unconditional acceptance" they first have to pass a simple test of your judgement of them.  fair enough, thank you.

Terri

 

Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2005, 02:50:01 am »
  "cultivate a Yeah So What mentality"

Funny you should say that Kitten.  I have a tight busted yellow T shirt which across the bust says  " WHATEVER, YEAH, RIGHT !"

Terri

Offline ChefAnnagirl

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Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2005, 08:08:33 am »
Point taken -
 
However, i was being lazy and should have taken the time to clearly express my feelings in that context and did not do so properly...A truly critical error in judgement on my part in that moment...

Again, i will state innocent until proven otherwise - acceptance at face value with all due respect that any other living person should be able to recieve the benefit(s) of - I have taken the time to EDIT that posting to reflect my true feelings with little or no room for misunderstanding or entrapment by my own words, as you all so willing seem to wish to do in order to prove your point - I apologize for my lack of clarity and incomplete expression that should have been better qualified in the moment that i wrote it - Please see EDIT in that posting.

I honestly should have better clarified and qualified my specific statement as to my own personal feelings given that particular hypothetical moment/situation - it should not have been written so...

If that person or persons so chooses to or wishes to take the attendant risks of expressing themself in an opposite gender role, as least as far as presentation is concerned, then it is truly not up to me (or as i feel, anyone else for that matter) to judge the validity of their reasons or driving feelings or motivations to do so in that moment - ESPECIALLY if i do not know them personally up until that point in time - if, given time, they PROVE themselves to be negtive towards others, disingenous, dishonest, unstable, or otherwise destructive toward myself or others in any way that can be percieved after the fact, then i would judge and act accordingly,
Apparently, I AM quite different than you and many others in this regard...
My previous post contained what appears to be a qualifying judgement before the fact, when in fact this was a misstatement and an error of expression on my part - again - my apologies for seeming hypocritical and giving you what you think you needed to prove the very point against me...
I still hold to my original thinking and feeling of "you cant judge a book by its cover until its being or been read well enough to begin to get to know it" - 

EDIT [11:27am, 7/18/05] I have been on the recieving end of that, just a few too many times in my life, to either any longer believe in, or wish to continue that cycle against others as i grow and go along in my life now - period...

Speaking for myself, in my life, I have been conditoned by pain of verbal, mental, physical, and emotional abuse, persecution, accusation, misunderstanding, lies, misperceptions, and deeply betraying deceptions even by people that i thought i knew and trusted, and even now still love -

Every day as i walk through life, and smile, warmly and lovingly meet and greet people every day that i have never met before, and take the attendant risks of keeping myself that open to all others, yes - it can still be difficult to fall prey to the level of almost natural judgementalism and conditioning and conditional acceptance that I, like so many others, especially in this culture, have had to grow up with and be programmed with - I do still believe, however, that it is possible for people to break through this unfortuante level of what i personally consider "negative" programming and discrimination.
Many is the time that my most sincere warmth, good feelings, outwardly loving nature, and true good intentions are mistaken and mispercieved by others as containing hidden agendas and being disingenous because of the strength of that which I seem to most naturally still wish to express, even after all the harsh pain and brutal misjudgement of much of my life by so many others -

Once, we were all Babies and young children, still in our most "unconditional" state - and for the most part, they (we, at that time) don't(didnt) care about color, race, sexual disposition, politics, culture, or any other limiting factors which would get in they way of unconditionally connecting with others and the world around us.
It had to be learned and conditioned into us. I still have the heart of that kind of innocent, naive, and unconditonal child beating within me, and personally, the more that i can do to remove all vestiges of that negatively oriented judgemental programming, the better off and the more effective i will be as a very honestly loving and deeply communicative person...Yes, this represents huge risks for additonal hurt and betrayal - but its part of who and what i am.
That i should deny that for you or anyone else, would be to utterly deny and betray the greatest part of my truly loving and accepting nature... I see others every day that will not respond to direct eye contact, smiles, and greetings and warmth from the heart -  I see fear, hurt, anger, and judgement in their eyes, and it makes me ill to my core that everyone seems to be walking around so scared to genuinley connect that they can no longer even recognize someone that genuinely does so or wishes to...
I sickeningly believe deep in my own heart that we have long since left the miraculously loving and unconditionally accepting parts of our true POTENTIAL nature as human beings behind, and as a result, now you see the world as it is today - full of strife, hatred, bloodshed, bigotry, illness, abuse, persecution - the list of ills and evils goes on and on add infinitum...
I follow my intuitional gut instincts about connecting with others as often as possible, frequently putting all "logic" aside in order to "unconditonally" and fearlessly accept living "in the moment" and  must therfore have faith in the power and nature of my own and others' unconditional love potential, and the miracle of God/the child in my/all of our hearts, my life, and my and others innate abilites to so act and therfore express this level of self truth, loving acceptance,and often, lack of judgement in order to more fully and "unconditionally" connect with others in this world, whereas maybe no one else has ever given them the time, effort and genuine unguardedness to do so...... 
I still act stupidly, make mistakes, say things out of anger and harsh judgement that Maybe i shoudlnt - but i always try my very best to be accountable for these errors, and will go to almost any length to correct any hurt or harm that i may have invariably caused or created towards another...
I accept the risks that this entails, and again, i must be willing to accept the consequences of that level of openness as well - and i do - regardless of what i have already been through at the hands and minds of others... If you betray me, hurt me,  - I will never forget - i will and must forgive, but I will never forget...


Lovingly always,


Annagirl
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 11:12:46 am by ChefAnnagirl »
Level the playing field

Leigh

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2005, 09:17:12 am »
Quote
"we all just have to get to better place of unconditional acceptance and loving "

2999-3000

I love women.  I date women.  I have sex with women<unconditional acceptance

I do not do penis.

I can accept that a cd can self identify as a woman.

A cd has a penis.

All of a sudden my  unconditional acceptance has a major problem


Terri-Gene

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2005, 09:35:28 am »
hahahahhahaahahahahahah, Predicable as ever, but so NICE about it,  well, there are stranger things in this world.

   "I can accept that a cd can   self identify as a woman"

gee, three thousand seems to be a magic number, to heck with that 10 stuff.....

Terri

Offline Dennis

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Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2005, 09:46:03 am »
But, just because Leigh is attracted to women doesn't mean she is attracted to all women. There may be other features that she would find unattractive on women as well, but that doesn't mean that she is denying that they are women.

At least that's the case for me. I will respect how anyone identifies him or herself, but that doesn't mean I have to sleep with a person just because she identifies as female. I find being very skinny a total turn-off. Skinny women are still women, but I doubt that I would be attracted to one.

Dennis

Leigh

Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2005, 10:14:34 am »
The key word is unconditional!

A rapist, an abuser, a terrorist!  I think not!

The Goddess never made an unattractive women.  Women just plain kick butt.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Becoming more active.
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2005, 10:22:21 am »
I had a client who sexually abused her own children. Women do sh*tty things too.

Are you saying, Leigh, that by saying "unconditional", you mean you would sleep with any woman? Or that someone you wouldn't sleep with is not a woman? I'm not sure I get it.

Dennis

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