Author Topic: Trans-sexuality and the goddess  (Read 14330 times)

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Witch of Hope

Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« on: May 20, 2009, 07:27:32 pm »
I am a Wicca, and I was transsexual. As a former member of the LDS church, and as a visitor of different services, I think of being able to permit to myself a judgment.
In most Christian churches transsexual people (or other TG) aren't seen with pleasure, and are patient at best ".
How, however, does it look to my religion which is a goddess's religion? Are transsexual people also condemned here? How was it in ancient times? And how does the goddess see tg people?
What do you mean?
I know the answer, but I would hear with pleasure your opinion in addition.

Ceri

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 07:33:52 pm »
The answer is "It depends." Some prominent Wiccans and other pagans are vehemently trans-phobic, because they have this notion of two, precisely two, never-changing sexes as essential t the structure of the universe. So anything that threatens that is evil, anti-nature, and anti-Goddess. I'm really not exaggerating; you can find this kind of claim in some of Starhawk's books, and among some Dianic writers, among others.

Others take the view that the creative force of the universe is big and generous enough to encompass all kinds of people, and that what leads you to be at peace with yourself and able to view the world with love, courage, a desire for justice, and an appreciation for beauty and wonder proves itself good.

I'm one of the latter. :)

Feever

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 07:35:01 pm »
My opinion is this:

Most people are unable to seperate transexuality from homosexuality.  So, to them, transsexuals are gay, and being gay is a sin.  When you sin, you go to Hell.  End of story.

But, if you consider that God is kind, loving and forgiving, then he as our Father has no choice but to accept us into his arms in Heaven.

Does this mean that we can do whatever we please on this earth with no fear of eternal damnation?  No, it doesnt.  The catch is that when we stand in front of the Father, we have to be truly repentant for the wrongs that we commited on this earth, and accept his forgivness.  If we cant do that, then its eternal damnation.  The choice is always ours.

Offline Kelli

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 11:08:51 pm »
As wiccans though, we don't buy into the "sin" concept.

In my experience most wiccans are generally open-minded and accepting.

*shrugs*

I will, however add to that, that I've met some very right-wing christian people that have surprised me and been accepting and loving.
"Aut inveniam viam aut faciam" (I will find a way or I will make one!)

Ceri

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 11:16:17 pm »
Yeah, I've come to believe that some qualities of basic decency and respect really are completely independent of what we think our values are. :)

Offline Kaitlyn

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 02:21:08 am »
I'm new to Wicca, but if I'm permitted an observation, I'd say that many traditions, and (neo)pagan religions in general, are much more tolerant and accepting of LGBT folk than the Abrahamic religions.  Sure, there are definitely some intolerant ones, as Ceri mentioned, but by and large it seems much more inclusive and supportive than the Abrahamic religions... in my limited experience, that is.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch

Ceri

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 02:26:14 am »
Oh, overall, definitely. It's just that it's unwise to take Wiccan or pagan gatherings in general as truly safe space until you know this particular group well. Usual stuff.

Witch of Hope

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 02:06:11 pm »
In ancient matriarchal cultures the people who were trans-identical weren't only accepted, but also were estimated. A special nearness was ascribed to them to the goddess. In the modern paganism tg people are accepted generally, except in certain directions of the Craft. Zsuzsanna Budapest is such a person. She founded the Feminist Wicca, a breakaway of the Dianic Wicca. She refuses transsexuals. I was once in hercoven on the Internet, and experienced it on own body. Funnily, that both, fundamentalists and separatists which bring out biology to exclude somebody. So, as if the biology was an everlasting destiny. The fact that it isn't this, we know it better.
This is also the reason, why I work alone.
Did you know that there were divinities which could change their figure, or their sex, in such a way, as people did it with their clothes?

Shana

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 04:54:36 pm »
Unfortunately, humans are humans regardless of their religion or philosophy.
Groups become cliquish, and politics erupts.. so it has been within the craft for a very long time, and with that comes those who are "in" and those who are "not".

Many feminist groups/covens tend to be biologically centric, but there are exceptions.

Self-determinism, self-reflection, self-definition and centered life have been facets of many spiritual avenues. This usually goes out the window when a group begins and someone becomes a leader, whether by election, decree or by force of will. There are entire traditions based on one person's views on what the craft should be. And within the trads.. prejudices can run deep.

Scott Cunningham was openly gay and for the most part lauded and accepted for his contributions and wisdom.. There are still those who despise him for having been gay.

For the Goddess; we are all her children, and like children, we often don't play well together tho siblings we be.

Shana

Offline Miniar

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 05:20:40 pm »
Not a wiccan, but a pagan;

I studied wicca for a little while. One of the concepts that are mentioned in more than one of my books on the subject is the idea that "god and goddess" are not seperate, but interconnected. That they are two sides of "one" divinity. As such, the god is the goddess and vice versa.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche

Janet_Girl

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 06:06:16 pm »
As a Wiccan, I see most other practitioners are more open to gender variations.  Just as in any belief system, there are people who are closed minded.  But the belief in a Goddess and a God shows the gender-duality in the Supernatural world.  And being of two-spirited, Transpeople are more in tune to the gods.  At least that is how I see it.

I have read most of Scott's book on Wiccan practices.  Especially the "Sole Practitioner".

deviousxen

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 06:54:52 pm »

Does this mean that we can do whatever we please on this earth with no fear of eternal damnation?  No, it doesnt.  The catch is that when we stand in front of the Father, we have to be truly repentant for the wrongs that we commited on this earth, and accept his forgivness.  If we cant do that, then its eternal damnation.  The choice is always ours.

You play too much dungeons and dragons.

Offline Kaitlyn

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 04:23:42 am »
There's no such thing as too much Dungeons & Dragons.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch

Offline Alyx.

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 04:53:17 am »
There's no such thing as too much Dungeons & Dragons.
Truth.
If you do not agree to my demands... TOO LATE

Offline FairyGirl

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 04:58:45 am »
There's no such thing as too much Dungeons & Dragons.

Agreed. ;D No such thing as "eternal damnation" either; it's an oxymoron. Anyway it doesn't apply to fairies, as our father is the primeval life force and our mother is Nature Herself. Fairies' beliefs about gender are quite flexible, as our genders and gender expressions tend to be.

From fairiesinamerica.com:

Quote
Gender and the Faery Tribe

“Nobody has a right to determine anyone else’s gender,
Thank you.”

Sex is biological. Gender, as faeries believe, is mutable. Shapeshifting is part of our magic. When masculine and feminine are joined within, the highest states of consciousness can be reached, and we can access directly the divine. We all have the power to do this, whether we are human or fairy beings. Yet fairies do this naturally, as part of our ritual with the world. Being able to move between the two worlds also yields other sublime states. In sexual acts, one can be either or, and the sacredness of the act is sanctioned through this exchange.

Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.

deviousxen

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2009, 07:37:40 pm »
Truth.

Pfffff. I dont hate d and d. I just think that a lot of door to door preachers look like they're LARPing c:

Offline Kaitlyn

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2009, 05:24:13 am »
Pfffff. I dont hate d and d. I just think that a lot of door to door preachers look like they're LARPing c:

I wish they were just LARPing.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch

aisha

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2010, 12:14:02 pm »
Live action role playing? ah the line between game and all seriousness, and the boundless authenticity from which she is enamored, they were born in the yogic poses, and from ages beyond, boundless and blissful at the sight of the night sky. The illusory nature of reality is such that, all is equally gamelike, and thus the playing of a role, even no conception of roles, all relates to the rest, thus can there be said to be time? Why is the mediterreannean dictionary based mostly on the herbs of the field? and why are the herbs of the field so calm? There were wild dogwoods and like a stag, I ran...

the expanse was thick with the joy of life, I ate leaves and berries and the occasional mushroom, I ran with a herd and alone.

One day, when the sun came up, I woke up and was grazing around in a valley, and there was a seashell, and the spiral gave me a feeling of nolstagia, for my life as a snail, and a hermit crab.

Offline Kaitlyn

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Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2010, 06:10:28 pm »
Where can I get some of that?
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch

deviousxen

Re: Trans-sexuality and the goddess
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2010, 04:33:04 am »
Whats scary is that I have the phallus and I have breasts and yet I magically still cannot pump out babies like the next, "Now thats what I call music."

Therefore I must be an evil, 12 eyed, horned creature that wants to shoot fire out of its armpits and destroy the giant blunt holding the world in place. Once the Great Blunt has burned all the way through, the Earth will fall into an ocean of blood and M. Night Shamaylan movies with mouths... Those mouths, you see, have 4 rows of teeth... And if you make the same mistake I did to have 3 mounds of flesh instead of 2 or 1, those teeth will remember you... And as they buzzsaw your soul apart, you'll be injected with an intravenous version of "The Last Airbender"


DONT YOU GET IT? THE GREAT BLUNT LOVES EVERYONE... EXCEPT YOU! Sucks to be you, huh? Well its all ok, cause even though you're gonna be buzzsawed anyway, you can apologize for being a three-mounded freak of blunt by walking into this building we made. Whats in the building? Nothing, except there's a Jedi Knight! And he comes out and in a monotonous, dutiful voice, he explains to you from a plastic covered book exactly HOW the fish will tear your organs out (Buzzsaw bbbbzzzzzz), and why. And if you think his voice is too dutiful and un-melodic, there's even a halftime inbetween the eloquent, beautiful words read by the Jedi to tell you how doomed you are. The halftime has cookies and alcohol... Cause NOTHING says you're sorry for being such a freak, like cookies and alcohol can.

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