Author Topic: Shedding some light  (Read 33839 times)

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Offline Pica Pica

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2011, 12:20:39 am »
I think you can fit a group mentality in there also. 'We are Androgyn.'

That could just be the delight at that new feeling of 'we'. With all them males and females wandering around, it's nice to 'we' once in a while.

and Sephirah, I look that point lots, but I'd want to change it to 'I am Androgyne' but that could be because I don't want to be seen as big headed (whether I am or not is a totally different matter).
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Offline Sevan

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2011, 08:34:26 am »
I do like that quite alot...but I do want to add just HOW fantastic it felt to find the word "androgyn". It was...freedom, and "yes!!!!" and a light feeling of power and having found the word tha described how I felt about myself.
I suspect there have been many a trans binary person who's had a eureka moment of "I'm a man(or) woman!!!!!" and I definitly had that experience.
So the word androgyn does hold a very strong place for me...but I can see that many aren't as attached to the "androgyn" portion but rather the "I am" portion.
Spot on :)
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LightlyLuke

Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2011, 12:20:17 pm »
I tend to see masculinity and femininity not as opposites on a spectrum, but as two more or less unrelated attributes. If you were so inclined, you could plot them on a graph, with M and F each on their own axis. Someone could have a lot of one and none of the other; they could have equal amounts of both; not a lot of either; or both in large quantities (and of course, all other possible combinations). It's multi-dimensional, instead of being a straight line.

Part of my androgyny is that I'd like to have a Z-axis of my own-- the one that comes out perpendicular to the other two.

Offline cynthialee

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2011, 12:45:00 pm »
Oh cool my sweetie got a sticky thred!
 ;D
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'

Offline tekla

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2011, 12:58:26 pm »
The world is round

Actually, its more than just round, it's spherical - that is, it exists in 3 dimensions, not just two.
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Offline Pica Pica

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2011, 01:01:59 pm »
Isn't it a near perfect sphere or something?
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Offline tekla

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2011, 01:09:37 pm »
"there is no dark side in the moon, really. As a matter of fact it's all dark"
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Offline Sephirah

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2011, 03:44:56 pm »
Isn't it a near perfect sphere or something?

It's an oblate spheroid.

QI ftw. ;D

Offline Pica Pica

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2011, 03:53:32 pm »
I find that infinitely more pleasing somehow.

"An everyday example of an oblate spheroid is the shape of the UK candy Smarties or US candy M&M's. The shape of the Earth is very close to that of an oblate spheroid."

Smarties really do have the answer.
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caseyy

Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2011, 03:55:58 pm »
Canada has both M&Ms and Smarties! Can I safely assume from that quotation that the UK does not have M&Ms?

Offline Pica Pica

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2011, 04:11:10 pm »
We do, and a huge m&m shop opening in Leicester square, even bigger than new yuck.

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caseyy

Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2011, 04:20:02 pm »
Good to know, I wouldn't want to write you off as total barbarians.  :police:

Offline Sevan

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2011, 08:08:42 pm »
I thought of something that could potentially back fire in a BIG way...(which I do. not. want.) or which may only make sense and be of value to...me. lol!! BUT I've found a few other like minds, and like thinkers here so...I'm HOPING that I'm gonna make sense here. I'm gonna do my BESTEST!

So...to break it down the simplest would be to just ask..."how do binary people view/experience non-binary people?"
Now...I know that some (often...me included..) bristle at the thought of being described BY someone else who isn't part of our community and identity...but let me explain why I'd ask this.

When I describe paganism (my personal belief) I often use Christian (type) lexicon to make my point sink in and make sense to the person I'm talking to. We come to a much faster understanding than if I were to use pagan lexicon such as "Yea...I'm a witch. We cast spells, celebrate the soltices and do energy work to be blessed by the Horned god."

Yea...that sentance wouldn't go so well with my more conservative friends and coworkers.

Which brings me back to my origional point...(and I think belongs in this thread because this could REALLY shed some light...) How would a binary person describe and make sense of a non-binary person.
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Offline Sephirah

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2011, 08:36:09 pm »
Well, I can't speak in general terms, but specifically as it relates to me.

How would a binary person describe and make sense of a non-binary person.

I tend to subscribe to the Socrates quote: "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing."

In that regard, I wouldn't attempt to. One thing (among many) I've learned through journeying into this area of the forums is that there is no one single common viewpoint of what non-binary is. It's different for everyone it applies to. To gain some understanding of that I would turn it around and ask the non-binary person "how do you describe and make sense of yourself?"

Offline Sevan

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2011, 08:39:28 pm »
In that regard, I wouldn't attempt to. One thing (among many) I've learned through journeying into this area of the forums is that there is no one single common viewpoint of what non-binary is. It's different for everyone it applies to. To gain some understanding of that I would turn it around and ask the non-binary person "how do you describe and make sense of yourself?"

I quite understand...and kind of expected that reaction but I still felt the need to ask. The reason I ask is that I've explained myself as many different times, in as many different ways as *I know how*...and there are still a large portion of people in my life who scratch their heads and say "I don't get it. I WANT to get it! I support you!! But I don't get it...." and it's to them that I'd like to be able to use words that would make it actually successfully make sense.
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dustbunny

Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2011, 10:56:36 pm »
I think I finally reached a place where I said "f*ck it" because I realized how impossible it was to define. I usually say both and neither. That's the best way I can describe it. I'm sure, like sexuality, gender is a gradient. I feel in the middle of that gradient and I feel uncomfortable in either role on opposite end. I can't be a girl and I can't be a boy, neither are me. It infuriates me when I'm treated like either, but I realize there's no way around it when people can't understand not having a gender, or at least a gender in the traditional sense. Maybe in 50 years the world will change and people will not be so hung up on labeling and whatever a person is we accept for the person, gender aside..maybe..

Offline Pica Pica

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2011, 10:23:52 am »
I'm at a place where I never explain to anybody, but sometimes they explain to me - especially when drunk.
"Hey Adam, You know, I've been thinking about you, and...no offence...but I don't think you are actually a man. (Quickly) But I don't think you're a woman either...you're a kind of...man/woman person. No offence though."
"None taken, I think that too."
"Do you?"
"Yeah."
"Makes sense."
"Pint?"
"Please."
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Offline Laurry

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2011, 11:54:12 pm »
Having read the whole thread today (for the first time), I have a short answer, and a long answer.

Short version:  Androgyne is an umbrella term to describe anyone who does not identify as a male or a female. 

Long version:  There is an infinite variety of the way people perceive their gender.  Most people, if you ask them, will say "I'm a male (boy, man, guy, dude, etc.)," others "I'm a female (girl, woman, princess, goddess, etc.)".  These people are known as binary gendered people...they are one or the other.  There are some people, however, who do not feel they fit so neatly in those two categories.  They may be a mix of male and female (to varying degrees), both at the same time, neither, or their gender identities may float around all over the place.  The people who aren't male or female are androgynes.  There are as many sub-divisional categories of androgynes as there are people.


We all have a story to tell about how we came to understand that we weren't male or female.  Most are very interesting and, amazingly enough, have a lot of points in common regardless of how we identify themselves.

A certain amount of irreverence seems to be another common trait.  When one has spent a great deal of energy fighting against the societal pressure to conform to a male/female binary, a disregard of the gender rules inevitably follows.  This also tends to spill over into many other areas of our lives.  I tend to follow most of the rules of society that will keep me employed and out of jail, but generally consider the rest of them to be open to twisting, bending or breaking if the mood strikes me.

With the struggles to understand ourselves AND trying to explain why we aren't boys or girls, humor is a major coping mechanism. Given the choice to be in a constant state of rage over the injustice of being forced into a gender role that simply doesn't fit, or laughing at oneself and the incredible lengths people go to try to enforce "proper gender behavior", I'll take the laughter.

That doesn't mean there isn't still anger and frustration.  Of course there is.  But one gets so tired of fighting everyone.  It's not that they are bad people, they simply don't understand.  They can't comprehend the fact that we are happy outside the bounds of gender rules...and, truth be told, maybe just a little jealous.

Having finally cast off the roles and expectations of being a male, why in the world would I want to be subservient to the rules of being female?  We are the Gender Outlaws.  We are the free people who refuse to bow to the rigidity of historical gender rules.  We are full of sh*t, and proud of it.

And yes, one does eventually reach the point of saying "F it".  My "F it" response is usually followed by "This is who I am.  If you don't like it, tough.  You can be my friend, and accept me as I am, or you can go away and never bother me again.  I'm not changing"

.....L

   


   
Ya put your right foot in.  You put your right foot out.  You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.  You do the Andro-gyney and you turn yourself around.  That's what it's all about.

Offline Sevan

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2011, 08:12:52 am »
Well said Laurry :)
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Offline tekla

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Re: Shedding some light
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2011, 08:23:52 am »
Having finally cast off the roles and expectations of being a male, why in the world would I want to be subservient to the rules of being female?  We are the Gender Outlaws.  We are the free people who refuse to bow to the rigidity of historical gender rules.  We are full of sh*t, and proud of it.

^^^ Worth repeating.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...

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