Hi
First off i know i still should make an introduction post. Will do that when i am behind a computer again, but for now i have a question for you...
Next weekend we will travel to the UK for two weeks. I more or less look ok, but my voice is still male :( Would it be likely that i get into problems in the UK? For instance on the street or in pubs.
Last year i choose to go in male form but now i am so used to being female, i don't like to have to go as a man anymore. Last year we had our car parked on the pavement for 5 minutes. In the 5 minutes there were guys that found it necesarry to spit on our car. In the Netherlands where we live that would never happen, so there is a difference and that is why i am asking.
Also i am curious if there are regular meetings. We will visit south Wales and West Yorkshire. Could be fun to meet others.
Hope its all clear and if not, just ask :)
Welcome to Susan's Place. I don't have a clue what the answer would be because I live in the US and the only other country I have been in was Mexico. I think it might depend on the neighborhood and bar you are in. The working class areas might give you more trouble that the better places. One option is after my voice surgery last summer, I had about two weeks I couldn't speak. You could fake laryngitis when you are in a place were voice might be an issue. On the other hand, I went for years with a voice that was still in the male range and nobody ever commented on it.
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I myself am from East Yorkshire. Honestly, it depends on which part of the city.
Wherever you go, there's a chance there will be people who are non respectful of you - which sucks. UK in general is good, though.
I've found that most people are fine, with the exception of people I know who are obviously trans/queer in bars/clubs that are in rougher cities, and walking around late in rough areas (which isn't really advisable for anyone).
I don't know of any groups in West Yorkshire or Wales, if you're visiting East Yorkshire I can recommend a bi-monthly adult group (I can PM with more details).
Good luck for your trip - you'll find that Yorkshire and Wales are both beautiful places!
I live in a suburban town next to London so I'm not familiar with West Yorkshire. But I live in a small town were there are no obviously queer people so I do stick out but people just mind their own business. I find the UK is generally very safe. People usually keep to themselves so as long as you act confident you'll be fine. Although I hear northerners still like to be talkative with strangers so you may have to be ready for that.
Quote from: Elis on April 17, 2016, 07:10:45 PM
Although I hear northerners still like to be talkative with strangers so you may have to be ready for that.
If you appear friendly, you will likely at some point be approached by someone for a convo - generally middle-aged older women if you're shopping, not usually in the street.
Also in convos, especially in Yorkshire, expect to be addressed as love, dear, sweetheart, darling ect. by most people - apparently it's a UK thing. Even as a guy, I still get addressed as 'lovely' by some people working in shops.
My family is from the Northeast (Durham County and Yorkshire) although I have lived in Canada my entire life. I love visiting the UK, especially the Northeast and Scotland. I haven't found the people to be overly talkative with strangers but I'm going by Western Canadian standards... we routinely strike up conversations with random people in stores or on the street... I'm an introvert and even I do it...
The terms of endearment for strangers did surprise me when I visited the UK. I am used to them from family but didn't realize how widespread they were.
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I'm in Blackpool, Lancashire. Most people are OK & not bothered by trans people. There are some rough parts of town I avoid (the best bit of self defence is not to be there). I was a bus & tram driver for many years & people still remember me. I was in the Hackney, Limehouse & Upton Park areas of East London last year & had no problems. If you appear confident & treat people with respect you get it back. There's a support group in Blackpool I sometimes drop in which has a good following & is friendly
Hi There Bregje
I live on the south Coast of England and I have found that most People are absolutely fine and tolerent of People. For example we have this old man that regularly wanders around town in a Dress (his Wife died and they are her clothes ) but nobody bats a eyebrow or bothers him . Myself I don't know weather I pass well or not but I live full time as a woman and have not at any time had a bad comment or any threatening behaviour aimed at Me .I have also seen many non passing people go about there business unmolested and without comment (maybe a second glance ) so I Believe that as long as You do not draw attention to Yourself by being loud or overly flamboyant You should have no problem in most Places especially in the South
It's hard to say, depends on who you encounter.
I live in some village in the middle of nowhere, I would have expected hostility to anything "new" since there's more conservative types out here but in actual fact I met a transsexual local woman here, saw her walking around since and nobody cares or says anything about it.
Avoid some parts of cities at night - but that goes for anyone, not just TG.
I live in Preston, on the most part people are quite tolerant but like the others say, you get the odd one or two that will always be a bigot or just plain ignorant. The human race is a fickle bunch but just walk tall, hold your head high and be proud of who you are. My partner and I come from a travelling family originally and they were the worst of the bunch when it came to narrow mindedness, to much tradition but now we are out and on our own I find the general population to be mostly oblivious. Of course we will always get the odd stare but as some one at my GIC said to me yesterday, most of the time the stares come because we are more aware of people around us due to our very nature of transition and as a result, we stare at them thus attracting the odd gaze here and there :D People stare, always will, even gogs stare but we don't go panicking that they are reading us do we lol.
I also found that the people in and around the cities that have a major GIC clinic are way more use to us because it becomes a common occurrence...C'est la vie
xxx
Nooms
I live in a nice area of Manchester. I'd say I get experience direct verbal abuse once every couple of months, and indirect inappropriate comments more often. I'm a non-binary AMAB person.
It largely depends on the area, but people can be abused about anything that bullies, especially drunks, perceive as "different" in ANY way. I have been verbally abused because I look "gay". I am a white person living in a mostly white country, but I have been racially abused by young adults while walking through some parts of town. I originally planned to come to England and live permanently as a woman, but that has not happened yet for a number of reasons, fear not the least of them. There have been news stories recently that claim that Britain is unsafe for trans people, e.g. the one about a British trans woman being given asylum in New Zealand.
Having said that, many trans people do not report any major problems. I would expect you to be reasonably safe if you are on a fairly short visit and avoid obviously run down areas.
I just spent the day in London with my kids, I've got no makeup, jeans, t-shirt, bright purple nail polish, long hair (but up) in a clip, and obvious breast, I look a mess haha. My kids have been calling me Dad all day, quite loudly. Everyone has been polite and friendly, and I've used both ladies and men's toilets too!
I can't speak for Wales or Yorkshire, but the south east is generally very good, just smile [emoji3].
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This was in the news recently. It seems the UK is someone you're granted asylum from.
A transgender woman who suffered years of discrimination and abuse in the UK has been granted residency in New Zealand on exceptional humanitarian grounds.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/12/british-transgender-woman-given-residency-in-safer-new-zealand
I can't comment on that person's experience, but mine has been a polar opposite.
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It's really impossible to say one area is more trans friendly than another. It depends on the people you encounter. People are different with how they view transgender people. I would definitely avoid groups of young males and stay out of bad areas no matter where you are. I would say Denver is mostly LGBT friendly but that's only the area I live in. I don't know about other areas. But also don't judge a place without actual facts. I don't know why but I always thought Australian people as a whole were totally intolerant of LGBT people. My boyfriend is Aussie and I have learned that's not true at all.
I do want to ask some questions while we are discussing Britain. I have heard that they won't change your gender marker even if you have had surgery. Also, you can be arrested for wearing female clothes. And worst of all I have heard that even if someone has had SRS they would still be sent to a male prison. Is any of this true?
Quote from: Julia1996 on October 25, 2017, 10:07:27 AM
I do want to ask some questions while we are discussing Britain. I have heard that they won't change your gender marker even if you have had surgery. Also, you can be arrested for wearing female clothes. And worst of all I have heard that even if someone has had SRS they would still be sent to a male prison. Is any of this true?
Pre-op trans women have died in British male prisons, but Google
"Transgender rapist moved to women's prison after sex change - BBC".
There was once a British law against "pretending to be a woman", and cross-dressers were arrested, but that law is no longer applied as far as I know.
There has been recent progress in changing birth certificates, but I don't know that it includes trans people yet. I gather that some trans people can get a gender certificate.
Quote from: Julia1996 on October 25, 2017, 10:07:27 AM
I do want to ask some questions while we are discussing Britain. I have heard that they won't change your gender marker even if you have had surgery. Also, you can be arrested for wearing female clothes. And worst of all I have heard that even if someone has had SRS they would still be sent to a male prison. Is any of this true?
P.S. , on Wikipedia it says of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
"The Act gives people with gender dysphoria legal recognition as members of the sex appropriate to their gender (male or female) allowing them to acquire a new birth certificate, affording them full recognition of their acquired sex in law for all purposes, including marriage."
Quote from: Julia1996 on October 25, 2017, 10:07:27 AM
I do want to ask some questions while we are discussing Britain. I have heard that they won't change your gender marker even if you have had surgery. Also, you can be arrested for wearing female clothes. And worst of all I have heard that even if someone has had SRS they would still be sent to a male prison. Is any of this true?
To get a new birth certificate you have to live 2 years in your new gender role and have proof of doing so; no medical procedures required; your application then needs to be assessed by a group of strangers and you get no say in the process. You also have to pay £ 140 for the privilege so pretty crap. On the plus side you can change the gender on your id by getting a letter from your GP saying your change of gender is permanent. And changing your name us free by printing off a deed poll document.
You can't be arrested for wearing female clothes. It's probably another nonsense old timey law either nobody has bothered to change bcos it's so ridiculous or its a myth. Never heard of anyone getting arrested for wearing women's clothes.
And the prison one is unfortunately true for the most part.
Quote from: Elis on October 25, 2017, 11:03:54 AM
You can't be arrested for wearing female clothes. It's probably another nonsense old timey law either nobody has bothered to change bcos it's so ridiculous or its a myth. Never heard of anyone getting arrested for wearing women's clothes.
Relating to the OP, it is certainly not one of the dangers that trans people have to face in Britain nowadays.
As a matter of fact, I can't find anything on Google about there having been such a law in Britain, although, in my lifetime, I have on a number of occasions read about trans people and cross-dressers being arrested in Britain while allegedly minding their own business, including an ex-SAS member. I think that they were reported for using Ladies Rooms, though. There were certainly such laws in parts of the USA, as can be found by Googling
"Arresting dress: A timeline of anti-cross-dressing laws in the United States".
(Liz K once informed me that only Family members or higher can link to external sites).
Quote from: Julia1996 on October 25, 2017, 10:07:27 AM
I do want to ask some questions while we are discussing Britain. I have heard that they won't change your gender marker even if you have had surgery. Also, you can be arrested for wearing female clothes. And worst of all I have heard that even if someone has had SRS they would still be sent to a male prison. Is any of this true?
You definitely won't get arrested for wearing female clothes. Up until 50 years ago, it was illegal to be gay in the UK and around that time things would have most likely ended badly but not today. In fact there are many openly transgender police officers serving today
Changing your gender marker is not quite as straight forward as some countries but as Elis said, changing your name is super easy
If you have changed your gender marker then you should be sent to a prison that matches your legal gender. Unfortunately a year or two ago, I remember one transwoman (I think post-op) who hadn't got around to changing her marker being sent to a male prison. There was outrage and a petition was started. It racked up so many signatures that her case had to be debated in parliament. As far as I remember, the prison service ultimately moved her to a female prison. Until the law is changed, there is still that chance you could end up in the wrong prison unless you have successfully changed your marker
Quote from: Elis on October 25, 2017, 11:03:54 AM
To get a new birth certificate you have to live 2 years in your new gender role and have proof of doing so; no medical procedures required; your application then needs to be assessed by a group of strangers and you get no say in the process. You also have to pay £ 140 for the privilege so pretty crap. On the plus side you can change the gender on your id by getting a letter from your GP saying your change of gender is permanent. And changing your name us free by printing off a deed poll document.
You can't be arrested for wearing female clothes. It's probably another nonsense old timey law either nobody has bothered to change bcos it's so ridiculous or its a myth. Never heard of anyone getting arrested for wearing women's clothes.
And the prison one is unfortunately true for the most part.
Thankfully you only have to pay £140 if you earn more than £1089 a month. I got my Gender Recognition Certificate a few months ago, and while it was a bit of faffing about (mostly from the doctor wanting to write a whole report and trying to charge me £120 for it- I promptly told them a few sentences would be fine so they did it for free), it's worth it. You get a nice new birth certificate with your deed poll name and actual gender on it, so you don't have to come out as trans to employers/interviewers/ID checks anymore. Apart from possibly the doctor's paragraph, the only thing to pay for is the statutory declaration, which usually costs about £5 and takes 10 minutes to recite some lines.
I'm not sure about other countries, but I think the UK is quite good for transgender people. I feel safe here most of the time. The only things that make me stand out are my voice (which just makes people think I'm gay, which I am so whatever) and my height because I'm 4'9. I come from a small countryside village and I don't get too much bother here, but I have been living in the same house since I was born. I find London much better and safer because it's so diverse.
I live in the West Country (Devon at least part of the year - the warm months) and these days the United Kingdom generally is a very positive place to be. Mind you, I blend in very well, living as a woman. I rarely get read and find people very caring. However as a woman I am careful where I walk especially at night. If you are looking for any clubs or places to go, one of the best clubs in Pink POunters in Bletchley in Bucks (every weekend) and a number of places in London such a the Way Out Club.
Have a great trip.