Susan's Place Transgender Resources

A thread I always wanted to make:
Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?

General ideas:

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?

Were you accepted in either group?

Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?

Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?

Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?

Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?

How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?

Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played? (Btw there is a thread about siblings in general already: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,231263.msg2056553.html#msg2056553)

And an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

Myself:

I tried to play with boys but they usually bullied me so I mostly just ended up playing with girls. I felt dysphoric and frustrated because the boys didn't wanna play with me, but I've always been very social so I played with the girls then. I only had two much older sisters so there were no boy toys or boy clothes in the house. My mom tried to make me the girliest girl possible and shamed me for wanting boy toys or stuff.

I was bullied since I was like 3-4. I didn't fit in either group really. I despised the girls for certain things they liked to do I had absolutely zero interest in (like barbies, or hairdresser play), but then I desperately tried to fit in with them. The best example of this would be that when we were 6, the boys used to collect hockey cards and the girls stickers. I had no interest in sports in general, let alone hockey, so I chose the stickers - though they didn't really interest me either :P. I made my mom buy me a sticker book then, and I consciously was aware that was just a desperate move to fit in with the 'other girls'. As for stickers though, I saw the coolest dinosaur stickers and wanted those xD. Well the first day I brought it with me, the girls bullied me. Another desperate attempt was to ask for a barbie :P. Just to fit in. Though I knew I had no interest in them and actually despised them. But thought that... maaaybe I could make myself like them?

When school started I wanted to walk home with two boys who lived nearby, and it went like this: When no one could see, they agreed to walk with me. When there were others in that corridor, they acted like they didn't know me and like I had asked the most outrageous thing imaginable! And outright bullied me. So that was definitely interesting...

I always had like one closer boy friend as a kid. And would invite him then to my bday party. I got furious when once my mom suggested I should invite another boy too so he wouldn't feel that 'alone' among just girls :P. I felt angry coz surely I was there! Plus I guessed they would've bullied me on my bday if I had invited more than one.

Later on, when I was around 12+ we hung out as a group that also consisted of boys. I always felt most at ease when interacting with boys. But all my friends were basically girls. The boys would never invite me over or come to visit me. 

I wasn't really allowed to be gender non-conforming in any way. And very strict gender norms were enforced on me at home and at school etc. I was a very depressed, zombie-like child who was constantly embarrassed by the way he was. I was an abnormal child by every standard, mostly bcos my mom kept scaring me to death and forbade me from doing anything normal children normally do. So I wasn't even the typical 'girl child' - I was an atypical child in every aspect! I mostly just had dolls and soft toys to play with, so I played with them then. And I had a huge imaginary world inside my head to cope with reality.

On the outside I was an atypically mellow and repressed child with perfect conduct. On the inside though, and with friends, I was more rowdy and had a dirty sense of humor and I dry humped my (girl) friend at 9..... Mostly I was scared of my own shadow though, bcos of my psycho mom, and had bunch of phobias and convinced I'd die at any second. And then I was ashamed of myself for not being 'normal' like the other children and unable to enjoy anything fun.

So I wasn't exactly a tomboy - but then felt embarrassed that I wasn't :P. It was jarring to not be allowed to be myself or express myself freely as a kid plus being emotionally (and physically) abused on top of that.

Despite all that at 13 I concluded I was a boy and stopped giving a flying fick for anything. I was deeply traumatized though and it only got worse in my teens when my family treated me like >-bleeped-<. Also after that realization started my social seclusion bcos then I totally didn't fit in with anyone! The boys bullied me or totally ignored me or were uncomfortable around me... and I did have zero in common with teenage girls, so...! In school I used to sit alone, in the middle, while the girls sat on the other side and boys on the other side of the classroom. I pretty much stopped having friends at this point. And would only hang out with my best friend, my future spouse.

If I could change one thing about my childhood, genderwise, it would surely be this:
I'd get to freely choose my toys and clothes. And receive that boy bicycle I wanted at 9. And that T-rex toy I wanted at 6 for xmas. And that action-man I so much wanted once, and... And all those radio-controlled cars and legos and car and train tracks and water guns I only saw in ads that made me numb and miserable..... Thanks mom, for making my childhood a small hell! And despite all your efforts I still identified as a boy at 13...! So it was all in vain. I've never felt that numb (figuratively) than on that xmas at 6 when I got that baby born instead of that dinosaur I had talked about for weeks. You kinda crushed my heart with that decision and made me realize I'd never get anything 'boyish'. So I dissociated myself from a part of myself that xmas. But numb zombies are easier to control, huh?! You beat my self-esteem out of me, robbed my identity and shamed me for my sense of self. And humiliated me with bows and lacy stuff. It was in everywhere - in my pillowcase, in my curtains, my clothes...

I was also a child of suppressed anger. My life might've seemed rather happy on the outside, but I wasn't a happy child, let me guarantee you.

1 = I played with girls until I was told to no longer do that at probably 7 or 8 years of age.
2 = I eventually knew I did not fit in, but not at what age, teenager yes.
3 = Slightly bullied for behaving in a feminine way, but didn't thought I was that way because it felt normal to me.
4 = After a while I did feel uncomfortable being around guys and girls.
5 = I played with both boy and girl toys, however I loved Barbie's. I wasn't allowed to have Barbie's so I had Lone Ranger and GI Joe dolls. Then I asked mom a Barbie because my boys dolls needed a girlfriend. That excuse didn't work. :(
6 = I was a loner.
7 = I was quiet.
8 = I wasn't thinking about gender dysphoria per se, as I didn't know anything about transgender issues. I was however very scared of my male part, thinking it will come off and somehow disappear. (It did but not until 10 months ago. :) )

I was bullied as a child for many reasons... I was mostly friends with boys and was a tomboy. I didn't really feel like a girl all the time and preferred to wear boy clothes. I was bubbly when I was really little but when I hit 1st grade I started being bullied more and more causing me to become shy and sad.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
A thread I always wanted to make:
Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?

General ideas:

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?

Were you accepted in either group?

Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?

Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?

Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?

Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?

How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?

Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played? (Btw there is a thread about siblings in general already: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,231263.msg2056553.html#msg2056553)

And an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

I played with girls mostly. There were a couple of boys I played with but after the age of 7-8 they started playing typical boy play and I lost interest in playing with them. As I got older my relationship with some boys got a little strange. When I was in Jr high and high school I started playing with boys sexually. At school I totally ceased to exist to those guys. They didn't bully me or anything they totally ignored me. My feelings never got hurt by that though. I was far more interested in playing with them sexually than having them as friends. That sounds so slutty I know. I will admit I was a little hoe. You might be asking how kids that young would even do that. Teenage boys are hyper horny. If there is a possibility of them getting oral sex and the person giving it to them looks pretty much like a girl they are very willing. Though when I was 14 my dad caught me giving a boy oral which was a little awkward to say the least.

I was bullied a lot. When I was very young other kids teased me because I'm albino. When I was older I got bullied for being so feminine. And in Jr high and high school I was teased for both.

When I was young I was accepted by girls but after about age 10-11 girls didn't really accept me. Boys never accepted me. They couldn't understand me and my behavior was alien to them as theirs was to me.

I was uncomfortable with boys. Their style of play and their attitudes were alien to me and they would always quickly realize that and bully me.

I totally didn't fit in with boys and I didn't try to. I never had any desire to try and fit in with boys.

I was very feminine and so was my play style.

Yes I was pretty isolated after about age 12. I didn't have any friends and the fact I couldn't really go outside increased my isolation. My dad wouldn't let me spend more than 20 minutes outside during the day. He was afraid I would get a sunburn which would lead to skin cancer. I always wore sunscreen and long sleeves and a hat when I did go outside but some UV still gets through sunscreen and clothes and my skin has absolutely no protection of it's own. I would have been very lonely but my brother always did things with me and he always tried to include me in anything he did indoors.

As a child I was both quiet and sensitive.

I expressed my dysphoria by always playing the female role when I played with other kids.

Yes I was allowed to express myself. My dad never tried to force male behavior on me. He would sometimes suggest things but after I ignored his suggestions he never tried to push it. My mom would try to push male behavior on me but my dad wouldn't let her do that very much. He would tell her to leave me alone. That actually caused a lot of friction between them.

Yes I did grow up gender neutrally. My dad let me wear gender neutral clothes in whatever colors I wanted and he let me have shoulder length hair. He or my brother never tried to force masculinity on me.

No, having an older brother didn't really effect the toys I played with. I never wanted to play with any of his stuff. When I did get a boy gift from someone I gave it to my brother. If it was something he didn't want I threw it in the trash. After my dad caught me doing that and yelling at me for it I would give any unwanted boy gifts to him. I don't know what he did with them. Gave them to some police program for needy kids I would imagine.

What would I change about my childhood?  I would choose to have been born a girl of course.

Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?
I suppose I could say boys, because I had two brothers, but the honest answer is that I didn't play much.  I had no playmates outside of the family.  As a young kid (< 5), I wasn't allowed off the block, and there were no kids my age on our block.  From 5-10, we lived in a 4th floor walk-up apartment.  I wasn't allowed down to ground level except to go to school, and there were no other kids in the building. 

I don't remember doing much at school recess except to hang out with the other uncool kids.  Though the school was co-ed, recess was segregated, so there was no opportunity to play with girls.  And only this moment, as I type this, am I aware of the significance of that!  Another of those 20/20 hindsight clues.

Reading that now, it sounds tragic.  I don't remember it being all that bad.  I was just aware that I didn't fit in.

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?
I was bullied in general for no particular reason, it seemed.  In hindsight, probably I was perceived as different.

Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?
Hell, yeah!

Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?
I don't remember ever feeling comfortable, except with the other uncool boys.

Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?
I tried my best to keep a low profile.  The only playground game I remember was "Japs and Americans", presumably some kind of WWII reenactment.  Since I had no knowledge of Pacific theatre history, it was a mystery to me, so I didn't participate.  I'd sometimes sabotage the game by turning up the brim of my cap (the "uniform" of those playing Japanese soldiers) and then refusing to "die" when someone "shot" me.  >:-)

Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?
I hung out with a couple of nerdy boys.  We didn't do much playing.  Just talking.  I don't think I preferred it, but it was all a misfit kid could do.  I do think now that I am probably on the autism spectrum.

How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?
Everyone always said I was "quiet", and I was.  I would add sensitive, but I learned the hard way never to let on.

How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?
I was totally repressed and shut-down.  I was only aware of wanting to be a girl in my most private daydreams.

Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?
Absolutely not!!  It would have been unthinkable.  We are talking late 50s, early 60s.

And an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?
Everything. :'(

Honestly. I played with both, more so towards the girls when younger. But when I got older the girls didn't want to play anymore so I had to find male friends. This was honestly very difficult. At any given time I would typically only have one or two actual close males friends.

Fortunately, during later high school years, I was able to start having close non romantic female friends as well. So I found a slight balance that would last through college.

I was in Boy Scouts and marching band and excelled at both. I honestly liked being in scouts but I often felt out of place.




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Sorry. Submitted before finishing.

I was allowed to play with pretty much what every I wanted and had a very large my little pony collection. Mind you this was in the 80s. However I also had a lot of transformers and the like. But now, thinking back, I realize that I really just liked the engineering of the transformers. I didn't play transformers in the way that the show went. There were no autobot/deception battles in my house.





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I was a tomboy with large BOY letters. I played with boys. Girls thought I was scary for some reason.

I have ADHD and Tourette's syndrome. That made me quite wild as a child. I had a tornado in me. I climbed everywhere and was out playing soccer, running, jumping, playing Karate Kid and Rambo in the forest. Riding my bike, doing not so good stuff, like breaking into the sewer for adventure among rats as big as cats.

In grade school, until 12 years of age, girls and boys were separated in sports class. I was counted as one of the boys at all lessons. I had a great teacher.

I was one of the boys until 7'th grade. 13 years old. My chest grew out. Never bullied, but I became an outcast. Did not belong anywhere. Became a loner. I had a few friends in several different gangs but it was accepted that I floated in between for some reason.

I was once "executed" in school by a boy with a gun. He put the gun in my face and held it there for about a minute and then pulled the trigger. In was empty. I did not even blink or twitch an eye. I just thought, thank you, end this misery. But that did not happen. He said I had his respect now, I was not afraid of anything. Stupid game.

Toys I played with...action figures from Star Wars, Spiderman and Hee-man. Cars. Lots of cars, lego and I disambled every electronic toy or gadget I got and put it back together. They still worked! I read comic books. I hated reading books, due to my ADHD. I can't concentrate.


I was pretty much allowed to be myself. But every time someone stepped on me and my right to be myself I exploded in rage. I never accepted anyone to bully me or tease me. They got beaten up by me. Noone steps on me. Not even my dad. He beat me until I hit him back at age 14. Then he never laid a hand on me again.

Something I'd change... I wish I had known what transgender is much much earlier.




Tony

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
A thread I always wanted to make:
Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?

both, though because of interference from my family, i was never able to be as close with my male friends.

QuoteGeneral ideas:

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?

i was bullied, just in general, off and on throughout my childhood.  i assume for being "weird", not that i was really any stranger than any other kid my age, but the less friends you have, the more you stand out.  i don't recall gender-related things ever being a part of it, though.

QuoteWere you accepted in either group?

until around 5th grade, gender was never seen as an issue for me or my friends and i was almost always in mixed groups.

QuoteDid you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?

it didn't really become an issue until later, around 5th grade again, that i started feeling like an outcast.

QuoteWere you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?

i was either comfortable with everyone or not comfortable with anyone through most of my childhood, just depending on how i was treated. 

QuoteDid you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?

i never cared about things like baby dolls and playing house, but i wasn't allowed to engage in rough play, so i mostly settled for pretend games and making stories with toy animals.

QuoteDid you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?

if i was isolated, it wasn't by choice unless i was avoiding the types of people who had picked on me.  my interests included "solo" things like art/drawing, so that contributed to me being alone a lot of the time, but i've never actually been an introvert.

QuoteHow would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

all of the above.  it just depended on my mood, my company, and what i was doing at the time.

QuoteHow did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

mostly it just came in the form of all my pretend characters being male.  i did what i wanted for the most part, since the other kids didn't care about whether something was for "boys" or "girls" and neither did i.  it was only when adults said i couldn't do certain things that i would feel bad, but i was taught never to question authority so i'd always just let it go and do something else that i could enjoy.

QuoteWere you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

my family didn't allow anything gender non-conforming, except for my grandfather (whose opinions didn't count for much in the household) and my father (who i only saw on occasional weekends or less).  teachers didn't have much to say and neither did other children.

QuoteOr did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?

at home, it was enforced very firmly but subtly up until i moved in with my mom and stepdad, after which it was enforced more loudly and harshly. 

QuoteDid having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played? (Btw there is a thread about siblings in general already: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,231263.msg2056553.html#msg2056553)

i didn't have any siblings (at least none that lived with me, until my sister was born when i was 12), so i only had access to "boys' toys" when i was out playing with friends or other relatives.  i always wondered why, but never questioned it out loud. 

QuoteAnd an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

does "my family" count as just one thing?  the fact that i never stood up to them/stood up for myself to almost anyone throughout my life because it was beaten into my head that i mustn't.  i don't actually think things would have been better for me if i had, maybe they'd have even been worse, but at least i'd feel better about myself for it.

Hoo boy, that's a lot to think about right there. But I'll give it a go. :)

QuoteWere you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?

Yes, but not for either of those things. I was bullied because I was an easy target. Because I came from a family who had nothing. Who people chose to look down on for having nothing. I lived with my mum, and after my dad left because he found someone he preferred over his wife and kids... we struggled. A lot. Sometimes we couldn't afford the cool things that were in fashion for all the cool kids. And because of that... people thought it was awesome to make an issue out of that. Because that's what kids do, I guess.

Also because I didn't fight back. I was the soft spoken, quiet kid at the back of the room. I didn't have it in me to be aggressive. I still don't. It isn't who I am. And people took advantage. Insecure people always take their insecurity out on people they perceive to be weaker than they are. And I was one of those people. I never fought back. I never said anything. Until one time. And as a result I was isolated for two years. But that is what it is.

QuoteWere you accepted in either group?

No, not really. And at the time I didn't really want to be. I just wanted to be alone. See... a good 60-70% of the hassle I got when I was a kid, was by the girls I knew. Girls in my class, and in wider life. I learned something back then. Boys are very up front most of the time. If they hate you, they just go out of their way to punch your teeth in. It's all about a show of force. A show of them being the "alpha male". Girls are different. Girls are psychological. They use words, and emotion to hurt you. The more subtle art of making you feel like crap. Although there were a couple of girls when I was a kid who used the whole physical angle, too. Because they could. Because I never believed in two wrongs making a right. But as a whole... yeah, that's how it was.

QuoteDid you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?

Yes. Permanently. But mostly because I didn't want to fit in. I didn't want to be the kind of person who could do to someone else what people had done to me. I didn't feel it was worth sacrificing my integrity to be someone like that. My childhood was basically full of the belief that other people were horrible, and nasty. And I did not want to be like that.

QuoteWere you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?

Both. Mostly because of the reasons outlined above.

QuoteDid you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?

Neither. I mostly lost myself in books. I had hundreds of them, from my grandmother. And would spend hours and hours lost in worlds which weren't the one I lived in.

QuoteDid you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?

I guess both. Although towards the end of my childhood it was something forced on me because I dared to speak out about the issues I was dealing with. Rather than something I chose. But the result was the same. I learned to watch people. To see how they work. I've been a loner most of my life. I have a lot of trust issues, and letting people get close.

QuoteHow would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

The last two. Always the last two. That would probably be the two words to describe my whole life. My brothers were the boisterous, loudmouth, annoying ones. I was the one in my room with my nose in a book, lol.

QuoteHow did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

It didn't. Not really. I shut myself off from everything to the point I didn't allow myself to feel. Looking back I'm sure I could pinpoint a hundred different times I could say "Yeah, this is how." But at the time it didn't feel that way. I was very guarded as a kid. Very scared of being hurt.

QuoteWere you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?

Was I allowed? That's kinda hard to answer. I grew up with my mum. And she basically acted like a mum and a dad. She was the most amazing person in the world. And because of that, she never really held with the notion of "Women should do this and men should do that." Because she did what she needed to do to keep her kids fed and gave them whatever she could. She did the job of both parents.

But. Having two brothers and a limited income. And me being the oldest of them. No... I wasn't really ever in a position to do anything that wouldn't benefit them. There were no toys, games... anything really feminine in the house. Which is why mostly I just retreated to my books. I was never discouraged. Just never in a position to really do anything about it.

QuoteDid having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played?

See above :)

QuoteIf you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

I don't think I would. It's part of who I am. Everything I've been through has gone towards the kind of person I am now. It would be so easy to try and make something better. Or different. But then it wouldn't be mine. I believe in changing the future. The past kind of defines us. Shapes who we are.

Before school started for me, I played with the girls in the neighborhood. Starting kindergarten back in 1970 was a disappointment. As soon as I tried to play with the girls, I got scolded by the teacher. So, I refused to play at all.
Bullies were a constant nitemare. I got beat up every single day. I became reclusive and antosocial, and stayed that way until I broke out of my shell during transition. Back then, all I could pray for was either being female, or being the only person alive.
Prior to transitioning, the only thing I could get away with was growing out my nails. When it came to dealing with bullies, at least I could kick and claw. Some of the girls probably learned to fight from watching me try to defend myself.
No adults were on my side. None of the teachers, or my adoptive parents could care less about me getting beaten up. As a matter of fact, my adoptive mother took advantage of my bruises by adding a few more here and there, taking her frustrations out on me. Why not? I was the whipping post for anyone with any grievance about anything. The constant beatings never stopped until I had my growth spurt at the age of 14, and then I was kicked out of the house.

I had both male and female friends as a kid. In nursery, there were a couple of female friends I used to hang with which continued all the way up through junior school, and one of them up through high school. Outside of school I was friends with a girl from across the street who spent a lot of time at my place and a boy from two doors away who also did. At 16 I attended a boys-only school in the sixth form that had allowed a limited number of girls to attend the sixth, and my group of friends there comprised about two girls and nine lads. From that point on, and into my university years, I would have a roughly even split of male friends and acquaintances, maybe slightly more male friends, but I roomed most of the time with my male friends, or male co-workers. 

Wouldn't have said I was bullied in school much at all. Which is interesting because I went to a notorious inner city state high school well-known for producing delinquents. I had more issues feuding with local kids near my house, and not for any reason other than that I challenged their leader.

I didn't have much to say to any kid that wasn't one of my close friends, and the rest of them accepted that arrangement very quickly. Definitely I was an outsider in any class that did not contain one of my close friends. It was a strange situation really - to have a tutor group that basically blanked me, unless I happened to be with one of my friends.

Did I fit in as a kid? Not at all. Was it uncomfortable? Yes and no. One gets comfortable with discomfort in the end, as a kid.

I played with anything I wanted to. But interestingly my favorite toys were cardboard boxes, plasticine, lego and such. Toys that are not only neutral but have more than one function and you can do lots of things with. Toys that were specific with a single use were the most boring to me. Such as dolls, and soldier type toys. I found those boring. Anything I could actually role play with myself however, I found very interesting. Toy swords, toy guns, masks, capes, face paint, etc.

I was referred to as a tomboy by others, yes.

I didn't isolate myself from other children as such, but as a rule I had a small number of trusted friends. I didn't make friends easily, or want to make "lots" of them, but I was capable of it. But I had them, and spent a lot of time around them outside of school. But I also spent a lot of time alone too. I liked time with my friends but time by myself was something I needed more. I would probably describe myself as a loner at heart, but with a requirement for socialization every so often.

How would I describe myself as a child...? Quiet on the outside, utter chaos and destruction on the inside, and somewhere in the middle when with my friends.

I guess dysphoria registered when playing with other kids as a rejection of typical roles. We did a lot of things your average teenaged boy would do, and that just came rather naturally. Since most of my friends came to play at my place and I had a very large house/garden compared to them, it was usually my games and ideas we played with. If anyone wanted to stay over the arrangement was usually that they stayed over at my place. This was because of my friends, my parents were the most lax and theirs had strict rules and nicer houses. We wouldn't have been able to have as much fun at theirs. Often that "fun" was actually mischief. I don't think I repressed anything except when some of the kids asked me to date them. I had probably as much interest in sex as your average boy, but obviously this condition suppresses a person's desire to want to be someone's "girlfriend", so I could never bother with any of that. I never had or wanted a childhood girlfriend or boyfriend in that respect. I was quite allergic to the prospect.

My parents never cared much about what gender I might have been expressing and didn't mind that I had a liking for robots and technical toys. My grandmother was different, but my grandfather knew I liked reading comics and playing chess and making things, and I don't know what she thought of all of that (probably disappointment that I didn't really enjoy being a human mannequin for new dresses). My uncles were professional game programmers so I spent quite a bit of time around them playing early 80s computer games. No, I don't think gender was enforced on me. It was almost never commented on. (My grandmother was an exception, she tried to prevent me learning to whistle).

My siblings didn't really influence toy choice - in fact I influenced theirs since they often played with my stuff. 

My very first friend was a girl and to this day I don't understand what happened to her. We were good friends (as "good" a friend as 5 years olds can be LOL) and suddenly it seemed that one day she was gone. I had vague recollections of playing with her and getting into some kind of trouble with her. My Mum was really vague and seemed disintersted when I tried to ask her about it, maybe she just forgot, but she said she didn't remember.

As a kid growing up I was constantly getting in trouble from adults for "being with the girls" which everyone thought was just "typical boy stuff" of "chasing the girls" to which, as you can imagine, I got a great amount of positive reinforcement about. They had no idea that what I really wanted from them was to be part of their group, to be one of them, to secrectly be like them so it worked out pretty good for short period of time until someone realised that my interest was not as they expected it should be... But then like all good catholic boys I was segregated from the girls at age 10 and didn't get to socialise with them for the next 5 years with the exception of the yearly dances.

After leaving school I applied to and was accepted for nursing school and ended up with 90% of my friends being women.

Liz

I mostly played with boys, but I played with a few girls too.  I didn't mind playing with the girls.  I actually enjoyed playing "House" and other girlie games, not that I did that often.  Now I know why I liked it.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
A thread I always wanted to make:
Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?

General ideas:

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?

Were you accepted in either group?

At first, I liked playing with girls.  The girls didn't mind but teachers sometimes did.  In my 3rd year of primary school, the whole of the school started jeering at me during breaks because I played with girls.  Even the girls I had played with joined in.  I hid during the breaks and by Thursdays, I was too ill to go to school.  I went back on Fridays.  My teacher noticed the pattern and asked my mother what I did on Thursdays.  By the time she went shopping, I was ususally well enough to go with her.  I think that my mother was sympathetic regarding the stresses of school, as she admitted that she had not gone for long periods herself, and truant officers sometimes interviewed her mother.  However, I never told my mother what what was making me ill.

At my next primary school, I puzzled teachers by refusing to even sit next to a girl.  It seemed to work, as I wasn't bullied anywhere nearly as much.  However, the real reason was probably that at that school, there were few boys in my age group and they were manly (with one exception apart from me) but nice.  Although I didn't hang out with girls, one of the boys was like me and we secretly wore female clothes when we could.

In high school, of course, nobody played as such during breaks but I tried to avoid bullying by emulating the behaviour of boys.  I was beaten up and caned a lot, though.  I didn't deliberately act feminine but some boys called me "Homo".  I was just an easy target.  I was small and bespectacled and although I tried to act tough, I'm sure that they sensed my fear.  There were a few rather intellectual boys I hung out with but they never invited me anywhere.  I talked to a few of the girls (and sometimes sat next to them) but although I joined in the male banter about girls, I never asked one out.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?

Absolutely.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?

Until the jeering in primary school, I was most comfortable with girls.  In high school, I was afraid of most boys because I was beaten up so much but I still hung out with a few boys, as I was trying to avoid bullying by emulating male behaviour.  I don't think that the boys I hung out with were all that comfortable with me.  They hung out with each other after school but I wasn't invited.  I didn't mind, although I liked them.  A couple of the girls quite liked me.  One attractive but troubled girl, who used to confide in me, asked me to marry her.  I was taken by surprise and blurted out "No!"  She never spoke to me again.  I wish I had been kinder, God bless her.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?

When I played with girls, I played their games and I didn't like the rough games of boys.  My parents never gave me girls' toys.  My parents sometimes caught me in my mother's clothes or naked except for her headscarf (I didn't know about female bodies till I was eight, so it was my clothes, hair and name that I was dysphoric about), so my parents made a point of getting me male toys.  I could have as many toy soldiers as I liked but no dolls.  As I mentioned, I did secretly dress up with another boy at one stage.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?

As I mentioned, in my third year of primary school, because of the constant jeering and occasional punches, I hid during breaks.  At my next primary school, I didn't isolate myself from other children, although I didn't sit next to girls.  I didn't isolate myself in high school but after school, after the stress and fear of violence from both boys and teachers, I preferred to relax by myself at home.   I have done the same ever since.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

I was pretty quiet and sensitive.  I cried a lot, although usually in private.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

Dressing up with that one boy, and my early preference for playing with girls and desire to look and act like them, would probably be recognised as dysphoric nowadays.  I wasn't angry, just afraid and very unhappy.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?

In all but one year of my primary and secondary education, I wore male school uniforms and my hair was always short.  My mother wanted me to act like my brother and told me so often.  As I mentioned, there was one boy who accepted my feminine nature and I accepted his.  I think that "he" was also trans so perhaps I should say "hers" but it would get so complicated and my post is long enough already.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played? (Btw there is a thread about siblings in general already: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,231263.msg2056553.html#msg2056553)

To an extent, my brother and I shared toys, which is to say he used to break mine.  He sometimes bit my toy soldiers to make them look more "realistic".  He was a few years older and his taste in toys more mature.  I was physically inept so I never mastered some of the toys that he and other boys played with, such as whipping tops.  I was afraid of my brother, with good reason.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
And an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

I just wish I had been born a girl.

QuoteIf you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

Honestly not that much. I had quite a "tough love" intellectual upbringing that served me quite well - I never really worry about my ability to survive, and I'm not a fearful person and I think that's down to nothing being sugar-coated when I was younger. Everything being a matter of "if you have a problem, use our brain and resources to find the answer - nobody's going to do it for you".

If I could change something I'd have had my mother sort out her psychological issues. The effect of her on the rest of the family was significant - I'm sure if she'd been in a better place psychologically, we wouldn't have been subject to her constant depression and acting out while drunk. I have a feeling I might have avoided some of my worse behaviors had she been a little more "present".

Mary T. So many of your descriptions could be documenting my experience. I loved playing with the girls. Jack's, Jump rope, hop scotch. It was great. At eight I signed up for little league and began playing baseball. It was the only sport I was ever good at but I quit at fourteen. Aside from my wives, most of my friends are female. I love talking about family, beauty tips, clothing etc. I am not much of an enthusiast in sports, cars or sexual conquests. So making friends with guys has alway been something I can't do very well.

Quote from: DawnOday on July 29, 2018, 04:41:49 PM
Mary T. So many of your descriptions could be documenting my experience. I loved playing with the girls. Jack's, Jump rope, hop scotch. It was great. At eight I signed up for little league and began playing baseball. It was the only sport I was ever good at but I quit at fourteen. Aside from my wives, most of my friends are female. I love talking about family, beauty tips, clothing etc. I am not much of an enthusiast in sports, cars or sexual conquests. So making friends with guys has alway been something I can't do very well.

@DawnOday -  Love your new avatar pic Dawn!

Sonja.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
A thread I always wanted to make:
Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?
Both
General ideas:

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?
Yes
Were you accepted in either group?
Sometimes
Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?
Most of the time
Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?
I was usually most comfortable with my small circles of friends
Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?
I was somewhat hyperactive - I'd be kinda shy at first and play fairly normal but then I'd shift gears and do weird, crazy stuff
Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?
I was a loner to some degree
How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?
I was Quiet and Sensitive most of the time but then I'd become Rowdy and Boisterous as the moments progressed 
How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?
I hadn't really thought about it and didn't realize until going to school that apparently most of the other children viewed me to be feminine, sometimes I'd get angry and other times I'd just shut-down  
Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...? No, not really

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you? I was definitely expected to be a boy

Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played? Not really  (Btw there is a thread about siblings in general already:https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,231263.msg2056553.html#msg2056553)

And an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be? My childhood sucked, I would probably change pretty well everything

Thanks Sonja... It is pretty much as it came out of the camera this time.  No photoshopping.  :D

We lived on a somewhat isolated farm so my playmates were my sister and two girl cousins, all older. Mama and Aunt Jane always called us inside with "Girls, dinner is ready." The neighbor boys really thought I was a girl until we got to the point of after sports showers. I was never bullied because I would not allow it. Later when puberty hit us and my breasts started to grow, I became very popular with the boys!

Quote from: PurpleWolf on July 27, 2018, 11:33:36 PM
A thread I always wanted to make:
Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?

Both.  I had a number of boys that I played with, but most were a lot rougher than I'd have liked, and I often had a hard time really fitting in (and they teased me for being friends with girls too ::)).  I also played with a few girls, and my best friend from the time I was 5-11 was a girl.  She started getting much more aloof and distant after that, but we did still talk and do things together occasionally till we were in college.

QuoteWere you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?

Absolutely!  I was bullied quite a bit till I was older - it really only eased up around 7th/8th grade.  I was generally more sensitive and emotional than most of the boys I knew, and I was often teased and excluded and sometimes much worse for being a 'sissy' and a 'crybaby', and for not being athletic enough, and for not being into the right kinds of interests and toys and such (too much 'girl stuff', not enough 'boy stuff').

QuoteWere you accepted in either group?

In general, no.  I had a few friends that were more accepting, but only if I mostly hid any interests that didn't match the gender rules for the group (i.e. no 'girl stuff' with the boys and no 'boy stuff' with the girls). 

QuoteDid you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?

I didn't fit in then, and I still don't fit in now, at least not with most people anyway.

QuoteWere you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?

Both.  I managed to make a few friends that I was mostly comfortable with (aside from having to hide some parts of my life as I mentioned earlier), but if I tried to join a random group of either boys or girls or even a mixture, I felt like an outsider that didn't belong and was often treated that way.

QuoteDid you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?

Some of both.  A bit of a disclaimer here: I'm going by the typical gender norms from where and when I grew up rather than any personal beliefs, and I'm really hoping kids these days don't have to put up with the same kinds of attitudes that I did...  Anyway, on the 'boy stuff' side, I liked science, computers / video games (none of the violent ones though), building things (especially toys and mechanical stuff), and a few boys' cartoons, but I also disliked 'boys sports', rough play (I didn't mind if it was pretty light though), violent video games, and most other boys' toys and activities.  On the 'girl stuff' side, I liked cooking and baking (especially decorating cookies and cakes), sewing and other cloth / yarn / thread crafts, flowers, gardening, some girls'/women's fashion, and a few other typically feminine toys and activities, but I disliked makeup, barbie and similar dolls, playing house (though that could be due to always getting forced into the 'husband/father' role...), and anything that was drowning in over-the-top hot pink or glitter.  (I did and still do like some glittery things, but it. always. gets. everywhere!)

QuoteDid you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?

Yes.  I'm naturally more of an introvert - I do like socializing to some extent, but I prefer smaller groups and I get tired after a while and need some 'alone time' to recharge.  The fear of bullying and teasing and the stress of having to hide so many parts of my personality from so many people made it more extreme when I was younger though, and I still take a long time to open up to people.

QuoteHow would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

More on the quite/sensitive side.  I could also be more active at times, but I wasn't one to make a scene or try to be the center of attention.

QuoteHow did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

I guess I'd say repressing things.  I carefully hid a lot of my interests and thoughts from people (both other kids and adults) to avoid being bullied or abandoned and it was frustrating and exhausting!

QuoteWere you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

My parents were more accepting than most other people in my life, but there were definitely still limits on what they would put up with when I was younger.

QuoteOr did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?

Gender roles were pretty heavily enforced by most people I interacted with - friends, classmates, teachers, relatives, etc., though my parents were more lenient than most.

QuoteDid having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played? (Btw there is a thread about siblings in general already: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,231263.msg2056553.html#msg2056553)

Only child here, but the girl I was best friends with for a number of years lived close by (easy walking distance in a safe neighborhood), so I spent a lot of time with her and her family, and I pretty much thought of her like an adopted sister.  She wasn't especially feminine by the standards at the time, but I did like playing with her and some of her toys and games.

QuoteAnd an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

There's one non-gender-related item that I won't go into, but other than that, I'd want to grow up in a culture that was more accepting and supportive of people who didn't fit the typical gender standards.

i found this thread intriguing because so many transgender folk had a similar childhood experience to my own.  I developed Dissociative Identity/Multiple Personality Disorder (DID/MPD) to cope with the trauma of childhood sexual and psychological abuse. There are five of us in my System; me, a 13 year old girl, an 8 year old boy, a Protector and an alter to coordinate the rest of us. You can read more in my post, "Childhood Trauma Survivor Misdiagnosed as Transsexual with Gender Dysphoria" at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,176195.msg1548804.html#msg1548804

My grandparent's had iron clad late 1800's Eastern European immigrant mores about the things men and women were and were not supposed to do. Men were men and women were women' the two met in bed to make babies. Somehow it was "ok" for a man to cry when someone died and to hug a relative or close friend when greeting, but other than that he was an emotionless rock. Women's place was to make dinner and babies. Kids were one notch above slaves. My girl cousins tell me I had it easy as a boy; they were completely worthless.

My grandparents were all poor imigrants. Dad's father was mean as a snake. He worked his @$$ off 72 hours a week during the depression to feed the 11 of them, kept a nickel from his paycheck for a bottle of whiskey so he could escape on the weekends and beat the kids when he did. I'm sure that's what his old man did to him and his old man's old man did to his old man.

Mom was the only girl of 9 kids. One of her older brothers molested her for years so she did it to me. Her cousin raped me so I guess it runs on Grandmom's side of the family. Her Dad beat the kids when he got drunk too. But life is pretty good when that's all you know.

Clothes were clothes and you were lucky to have them. Mom wore her brother's HandMeDowns, told me she was such a tomboy my GrandMom was SURE she was going to grow up to be a man til she hit junior high and discovered she like boys. Mom was a fashionista and started wearing mens clothes when it came into vogue in the 70's. Drove my father NUTS. She wore mens jeans, sweats and PJs til she went into the nursing home. My parents gave me a girl cousin a couple years older than me's hand me downs for years. 

I was an only child and we lived in the country. The only playmates for miles around were my dog and the girl next door. Mom worked so I spent the afternoons with my Grandmom playing with my cousin and her girlfriends. I learned to crochet and cook and played ALOT of Barbie, trolls, dress up and tea party (Got a real charge out of talking to an older cousin I hadn't seen in 50 years when she told me how I always dragged out her dolls to play with when we came to visit :) Shrug, that was all I knew.

Dad tried to man me up a couple times, even got me a football and bat. Kinda hard when your only playmates are girls and a dog, and your Father thinks sports are a waste when you could be doing something productive like working.  Bottom line, I had plenty of dollies to play with so I asked Santa for a popular space man toy and model kits instead...

How would I describe myself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive? Being myself was never an option. I learned to be whatever people EXPECTED me to me - it worked for Batman so I figured I'd do it too. The problem was it worked so well I forgot who I was...

I was socially dysfunctional when it came to interacting with the rest of the guys when I started school. I fumbled along with Hot Wheels and trading cards for a couple years but things went out of control when my female alter (Flytrap) took over after the rape. She had no problems being one of the girls- walked like them, talked like them, giggled like them, ate lunch with them, worked in the library with them, played friggin Four-Square with them. The only thing she didn't do was have long hair or dress like them. All of that was up there in my head waiting to come out again when I had my breakdown and Flytrap realized she was a separate person...

The bullying started when I hit adolescence. Flytrap's girlfriends started drifting away from me because they saw me as guy and I was the laughing stock of the fellas. "Fag" notes in my locker, snickering and jeering behind my back, the $h!t hit the fan in 9th grade when a kid tipped my books out of my hands between classes. My Protector went ugly on ape on the kid. They had to pull me off of him to take him to the dispensary. I didn't remember a thing.

As the brain of the school, they never said boo to me or my parents about the fight. I came down with something the doctors said was "like mono" for about a month. My head felt like mush, I slept 12-16 hours a day and laid in bed like a zombie til it was time to go back to sleep. I was the de facto coolest guy in the school when I went back. My pecking order firmly established with my peers, NOBODY ever f****d with me again.

It took 7 years of therapy to understand this was when VA (me, the male Primary alter of the System) was created to protect Flytrap. I underwent a similar dissociation in 6th grade when she was created to protect LittleGuy, and 2 years ago when my mind created Little Flytrap to protect Flytrap from her memories of the rape. The human mind is amazing...

My trauma therapist says I was given an "inconsistent gender message that caused 'Identity Confusion' during critical stages of childhood development." Alot of water goes over the dam in 58 years. There isn't was one thing I would change about my childhood; I am who I am in spite of and because of it.

Well you probably know my childhood situation already, Purplewolf, but I thought it's an interesting topic and one of few I can chime in on here now, so I'll answer the questions mostly just because. And that I'm a detransitioning cis person and not trans, yet persistently lurking around in the trans forums and all of that good stuff... I hope no one here minds ;)

Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?
- I only had my sister as a friend to play with as a kid, but on very rare occasion also other girls of both my age and my sister's age. Boys didn't seem to like my company at all back then. But for the most part, I was on my own.

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?
- Yes, from around age 6. I was gnc (short hair, wore "boy clothes") but wasn't bullied for that. But rather for my visible/noticable Asperger traits, that I wasn't very fast, that I misinterpreted a lot of social cues, that I was just socially awkward, very gullible, etc. My gender wasn't what they targeted, typically. Although they did sexually assault me once and that was probably at least partially because of my female anatomy. I don't blame myself or my body for it though.

Were you accepted in either group?
- Nope. Boys were more likely to bully me and girls were more likely to ignore/shun me, neither wanted me in their company. Very few kids were okay with me tagging along and only on occasion, but even they weren't overjoyed by my company. Girls were more likely to be kind towards me than boys, but I was still equally uncomfortable around both, cause it was very unpredictable who was gonna be nice or mean. I had no friends, except from my sister, up until around age 10-11.

Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?
- Definitely. I often thought of myself as very different. I watched some tv-series about aliens that looked like humans (Roswell) and I thought I was like them, as a kid. Like an alien in disguise. But I also thought of myself as better than my peers cause I wasn't mean. I already back then had a kinda "me against the world" way of thinking.

Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?
- Both. I was mostly uncomfortable with boys cause they were a lot more likely to push me around and be cruel, and I was mostly uncomfortable with girls cause they were more likely to act manipulatively or like I wasn't even there at all. I didn't feel a sense of belonging with people of either gender, as a kid. I don't think I do now either, but as an adult I don't feel uncomfortable with either men or women, just different. I see myself as a woman now, but ever since my teens I've been more comfortable around men, but for groups I strongly prefer groups of mixed genders.

Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?
- I preferred playing with barbie dolls, toy horses, and drawing. But on occasion I liked playing with toy cars and lego. I hated play-pretend games like roleplaying you're a family etc. And chasing-games too. I couldn't run fast and was very clumsy. I'd say my play preferences as a kid were androgynous but leaning girly.

Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?
- I often strayed from groups of other kids, and prefered being alone. Sometimes I'd sit in a bush somewhere with my own toys from at home, hiding indoors or just strolling around as far as I was allowed to walk. I have an introvert inclination, I'd say, but me avoiding other kids back then was mostly self-preservation. I've always bad some extrovertedness to me as well, but to a much lesser degree. Sometimes I wanted to be with other kids in smaller groups like just 2 of us or at most 3. I was often left out in bigger groups and was scared to speak up.

How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?
- Very quiet, very sensitive, highly imaginative and creative, wise, slow (as in I took my time with things, not mentally), curious, fearful, very careful, clumsy, misunderstood by many, etc.

How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?
- As far as I know I didn't experience dysphoria before puberty. I was however jealous of boys' bodies and how they were treated socially. I often felt very inadequate as a child, like I was never enough no matter how hard I tried anything. I was very angry at my bullies and the adults who never took the bullying seriously. I hated crying when others could see me, cause I thought that was a sign of "weakness" and got the idea that I had to suppress my emotions and be more stoic, which is perhaps more common for boys to think. But for me I think it was just because of the bullying, that taught me I had to "toughen up" to survive, basically, and not dysphoria for not wanting to be treated like a girl. I didn't like being treated like a girl, but I actually did like being a girl. Maybe I got that confused, somewhere along the line.

Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?
- Yeah, I was. In fact me dressing boyish was much more appreciated by my parents than me dressing girly. I liked the pink dresses much better than the blue sweatshirts and I wanted to grow my hair out long but my parents said it was impractical and unnecessary. Other girl kids thought it was weird that I had short hair and they didn't understand why my parents wouldn't let me grow it out. Well it got too tangled and my mother didn't want to deal with it. Otherwise I don't remember what anyone else thought of my presentation. I didn't see my other relatives often, but when they had any opinions about me or my sister, they usually went straight to our parents about it.

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?
- In a sense, I'm starting to kinda suspect that my parents did, at least a little, actually force gender neutrality on me... oh, the irony! It just strikes me now that my mother still keeps telling me she wishes I wasn't so feminine, but I am a cis woman, so that's a bit weird to me. But knowing her, she's very masculine and doesn't like femininity, so it's possible she's projecting that on me. My father isn't visibly gnc but in some more or less hidden aspects he is. My parents never followed typical gender roles in our family, like dad earned more money but cooked the food, and mom did most of the child-raising but fixed the leaky pipes, etc. And I think they're kinda against gender-conformity, and have tried to stray me and my sister away from that. I think they missed the point: that it should be an option, not forced.

Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played?
- Yes, me and my sister almost always wanted each other's toys or the same kind of toys, growing up. We fought about that sometimes but mostly we shared and borrowed one another's toys without a fuss. Our parents tried to persuade us to try being a bit different at some point but we both refused to. We even wanted to dress the same, have the same hairstyles, etc. We're not twins, she's two years younger than me. And we grew apart more when we got closer to teen years. Now we have very different styles and interests.

And an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?
- I would have told someone, about the abuse. Anyone, but maybe preferably a teacher at the school I went to, or someone else outside of my family. Notice how I wouldn't choose to change the abuse itself happening? I think I really needed that experience to know who I am. So I wouldn't change that, but I would ease some of the pain that followed, if that was possible.

This actually helped me understand myself a bit better, like seeing some pieces of my childhood connect themselves with my present self. In terms of why I transitioned and then detransitioned, I mean :)

It's a bit hard for me to answer this questions one by one so I just mix first 7 questions.

First, I've traveled from town to town few times, so there was more than just 2 groups. But since I wasn't interested in making contacts with boy groups and girl groups just didn't accept me because I was boy I mostly was alone. Most of my childhood experience was in my first town, so I'll tell about it.

I've played with both groups. With girls it was funny and easy. With boys it was routine and matter of surviving, I didn't like it. There was one bully in my district. Do boyish things, don't question his authority - and maybe he'll leave you after playing. Try to distant yourself from him - you're becoming an enemy and must be beaten. So football and some other games I dunno how to translate. But I had my barbie :D And playing with girls relaxed me.
At this stage of my life I just felt something wrong, but didn't knew why. I didn't like my body, my name, boy's company, but never express that I wish to be girl, so others thought I was a bit weird but didn't care much. I'm also introvert, and it didn't helped me build connections :) So mostly I felt I didn't fit any group

And a little about other groupes. I was lonely until ~13 when I've met my best friend (which was kinda bully at this age lol). He later bring me to virtual worlds of computer games and internet and I decided to leave reality :) since then I didn't care much about that groups. But I had a small and warm community at one forum (don't exist anymore :( ) mostly consisted girls.

QuoteHow would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

I was quiet until 12 years. After that I've became quiet and explosive, bottled up all my rage to unleash it in single moment without being able to control it.

QuoteHow did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

I didn't thought about this much, just played what I want when it was ok and what I must when it was neccessary. Guess I grow up gender neutrally, just felt something wrong.

QuoteWere you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

I didn't trust any of them. So nope, I've rarely spoke with anybody about my problems except something like "I watched Critters and woke up from nightmare in cold sweat and was too scared to think about trust". Didn't have such urges anyway. I just make imagined friend for a short time which was clone of me but opposite gender. Perhaps it was just game, perhaps - some kind of expression... Dunno, I was damn kid.

QuoteDid having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played?

I'm single child.

QuoteAnd an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

I don't know. Maybe, place or family where I grown up? :D Is that an option? If not, perhaps I'd like father be around. I was so alone, and mother usually just punished me for mistakes so I just feared her until later my fear converted to uncontrolled anger.

I was searching my high school webpage and come across someone I have not seen in over 58 years. Denise used to be my best friend playmate in elementary school. Truth be told her brother also got my mother pregnant. The baby was stillborn. It's the only time I saw my parents fight. But Dad being the good guy he was, let it pass after a few weeks.

I played with both up until 6th grade. Around that time there was a sort of boy-girl split, and I stopped feeling welcome in female circles. I don't recall having any female friends again until 9th grade, so there's a 3-4 year gap where I only had male friends, and I had more male friends than female for several years afterwards. Now I'm back to having mostly female friends again :) which feels nice.

Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?

I'd say neither but boys mostly. my physical stature never allowed me to blend in with girls.

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?

Definitely, got worse over the years,

Were you accepted in either group?

Had a few friends but in general didn't fit with either wider group.

Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?

As a kid i didn't really think about fitting in, just followed my instinct and got into whatever was interesting and acted the way i felt like acting. that however led to isolation and depression and definitely feelings of not fitting in during my teenage years.

Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?

Cant say i was ever part of either group.

Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?

I was mostly into creative toys, my family only gave me boy-oriented toys but that didnt stop my imagination from doing whatever it wanted. As for group games i never had any interest in typical sports or ball games but i do remember enjoying the few times i was allowed to play with the girls.

Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?

Definitely, hard to tell which came first, the chicken or the egg. But that is how it ended up.

How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?

High-energy and inquisitive.

How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?

Used to imitate female characters from tv shows and cartoon/anime and get interested by girl-oriented shows and topics, weirded people out but at the time i didnt really care or notice that my actions were leaving a bad impact.

Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?

"Christian Family" should be pretty self-explanatory, was never allowed to in the presence of my family but both my parents worked full time and my grandmother who raised me allowed me to do most things aside from crossdressing(which i was caught doing then scolded and ridiculed by my family.)

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?


Gender was definitely enforced on me.

Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played?

Single child.

If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?

As much as i hate it and cringe, its part of who i am, therefore wouldn't change it.

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?
I was bullied from a very young age mostly for having two visible sensory disabilities, and for being an unusually small male bodied person with unusually vulnerable emotions. Some times for "acting like a girl".

Were you accepted in either group?
When I was very young, 4-6, I was accepted only by the girls in my classes. Once grade-school hit the gender separation was in full force so I pretty much kept to myself. I made some male friends who were also outcasts. I was loosely accepted by "the computer geeks n nerd guys" in high-school, though outside of school hours most of my friends were girls (that trend has stayed to this day).

Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?
Very very very much so. I couldn't care less about "boy stuff" as a kid, and wasn't allowed to try "girl stuff", so I ended up on my own.

Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?
With boys I was uncomfortable with the competition, comparison, etc. I also had a hard time with the lack of emotional communication. With the girls I had a hard time with the lack of ambition in their play, later in life I had a hard time accepting that they wanted to fall into the societal mold of what women should be (Suzie home maker types).

Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?
In my heart I'm a tomboy, and think I always was. Before the gradeschool "gender split" which was more strictly enforced by adults in my case, I liked to play girl games, though I was afraid of being made fun of for it, and I was at times. I always had a hard time caring about sports, didn't care about trucks n guns n hunting etc. Fortunately I'm also very cerebral in general which is generally accepted as "nerd culture" on both sides, so that became a comfortable place for me.

Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?
From what my parents have told me about myself before my earliest memories, I was a definite extrovert! Then bullying reversed that right quick. From conversations with my therapist I'm still an extrovert deep down, but with a lot of anxieties that now stand in the way achieving that dream. I was a definite loner as a kid though.

How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?
Quiet, sensitive, observant, emotionally volatile, thoughtful, intensely curious.

How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?
I never had any clue "being a girl" would be an option on the table as a child, though I did have a very strong wish to have been born as a girl "because this would all be so much easier" I would tell myself. Because I knew that different = pain and suffering, I suppressed anything to do with femininity so as to protect myself, including not even thinking about it in case they could read my mind and somehow find out that I had thought about it.

Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?
I was up until age 6. A teacher in pre-school told me I was no longer allowed to play with the girls, I'll never forget that teachers name (in ire). After that, must of the adults in my life enforced strict "boys play with boys and do boy things, girls play with girls and do girl things" rules, and I didn't have the inkling to challenge this.

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really enforced on you?
The one place I got away with being more girly was at family functions, oddly enough. It just so happened that the cousins my own age were all female, and my only sibling was too. So I got to hang out with them and was very very happy to do so, I still miss those days. I did have male cousins but their interests never interested me, part of that was probably due to the age gap, but perhaps not all of it.

Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played?
I had a female sister, I never browsed her closet or anything because that would feel.... like a violation of her privacy. Female partners on the other hand, yes. Mostly I chose things that were very intellectual and therefore neutral, because the really boyish stuff didn't interest me and I didn't let myself thing about feminine stuff. I also so happen to like being a giant nerd so that worked out.

Once I moved towards the end of 4th grade until 9th grade I was bullied. It was for what I was different from the others. Possibly perceived as slightly feminine. Not one of the guys.

I had few friends most where 3-5 years younger. both girls and boys.

In school I was a motorhead and didn't fit in with any group. People knew me by my car not me.

It seemed like I played with normal boy toys, Cars. Typical games no.

I was a shy quite kid. just wanted to be left alone.

Oh, Yeah I was a loaner for the most part.

I did display feminine traits.

If I could change anything. I would came out as female long time ago.


Kelsey

What an odd set of questions!

I was born in the early 1950s, so childhood was a thing of the 1950s and early 1960s.  Many here may not relate to this era at all.

I preferred to associate and play with girls.  When that wasn't possible, I preferred to be by myself, engaged in solitary activities such as model building or reading.  When forced to associate with boys, the interactions were poor.  I was bullied, and abused in a variety of ways.  (This being the 1960s it was not talked about, considered impossible, etc.)

I tended to be quite solitary.

Thanks for making this thread.  :)  It's always interesting hearing about other people's experiences.

Did you play with girls or boys as a kid? Or with both? Or mostly with girls/boys?
I played with both when I was younger but never had a ton of friends.  I mostly played with a girl who lived in the same neighborhood and a boy who lived there too.

Were you bullied as a kid? In general? For your gender expression? For the way you played?
I was bullied a little bit.  Not really for gender expression at that point.  More for just being generally strange and not doing typical boy stuff.  I've always been pretty tall and I think that did help me not get bullied as much.

Were you accepted in either group?
With boys not really other than a few random friends over the years.  When I was younger girls seemed pretty accepting, but at a certain point everyone seems to realize we are no longer "supposed" to be friends with people of the opposite gender.

Did you feel you didn't fit in as a kid?
I never really fit in anywhere.  About the closest to fitting in was just hanging out with some other outcasts, but we were all outcasts for different reasons.  I always liked the goth kids even though I wasn't one.  They at least could wear cool (or bad) makeup without caring what people thought, something I still can't do publicly!

Were you uncomfortable in either group? Or in both? In which ways?
Boys made me uncomfortable because basically none of their social behavior made any sense to me.  Lacking any real display of emotions, being mean as a form of bonding, constantly worrying about being tough or one-upping each other.  I was more comfortable with girls for sure but past a certain age it was just hard to find many of them to hang out with.

Did you play 'typical' games or with 'typical' toys for either gender? Were you a tomboy? Or a total 'femboy'  ;D?
A lot of my play was just creating weird projects or art and imagining things.  As far as toys mostly boys stuff particularly action figures.  I did play with my sister's barbies and stuff a little bit too but even some of that was secretive because my parents made it clear that wasn't something I was supposed to do.  I was really into videogames from a young age too.

Did you socially isolate from other children? Were you a loner? If so, why did you prefer it this way? Are you an introvert by character or was this just bcos of social seclusion...?
Definitely a loner.  I'm introverted by character but also was forced to be more introverted and isolated than I would have liked, which is still true if I'm being honest.  I just never really felt like anyone understood me and found social cliches puzzling in their homogeneity.

How would you describe yourself as a child? Boisterous? Rowdy? Quiet? Sensitive?
Quiet and sensitive.  I would have some occasional "outbursts" where I would just question the reason for things out loud, which I was already doing in my head all the time.  I learned asking real probing questions was very much frowned upon though.

How did your dysphoria show through play and interaction with other children? Did you want to emulate certain behavior? Or repress something? Were you angry? Or just shut-down?
I never wanted to emulate behavior, especially stereotypical boy behavior, but I felt sort of forced into making an attempt at it.  I was never any good at most of that stuff though so in the end I think I just shut down and disconnected more than anything.

Were you allowed to express gender non-conforming behavior as a child? By your parents and relatives? Teachers? Other children or adults...?
I only got "caught" a couple times but it was very clear to me this wasn't acceptable behavior, so I became really good at hiding it in private.  We had a bunch of old stuff in storage too that no one ever checked so it was really easy to just hide stuff in there.

Or did you grow up sort of gender neutrally? Was gender not really inforced on you?
It was pretty strongly enforced especially past a certain age probably 8-10 years old.  Before that it seemed more acceptable to just be more carefree and creative, and even play with *GASP* girls.

Did having siblings play a part in the types of toys you had access to or the games you played? (Btw there is a thread about siblings in general already:
I had an older sister so I was able to play with some of her stuff although beyond a very young age I mostly hid that too.  Barbies of course, but she also had paper dolls where you could mix and match fashions.  I remember she had some shopping board game that was basically femme-opoly too.

And an extra question I'd like for you to answer:
If you could change one thing about your childhood, what would that be?
Part of me thinks it's part of who I am so I shouldn't change it.  The other part of me really wishes I had figured out some of this stuff MUCH sooner.  I blame myself for some of that but I also know our society doesn't give most young people to knowledge or information to properly address this stuff.  Our sex ed classes barely even explained anything about straight cis-gender sex, let alone any other sexual orientations, let alone different gender expressions.