Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I don't really pass but I'm getting there I'm curious to hear your passing stories

I am always addressed with female pronouns, and treated as a woman, so that's passing to me; however, my ego doesn't cause me to be naive, and assume that I'm at a stealth unclockable level of passing; someone could think/assume I'm trans and just not say anything, or do anything subtle or obvious to let me know.

Until I start talking, I usually pass as a woman, which is okay but it's not my identity. And it kind of points out the subjective nature of the whole concept of "passing". Basically, if someone comes up and tells me "You're not really a girl", then I'm passing. Not getting the treatment I want, but passing.

Passing only works in a world that rejects a gender spectrum.

Hey, you asked.  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn

Define "passing".

I pass as a woman.  From a distance, most people will assume I am a cis-woman.  Not so much close up or if I speak, but I still get gendered correctly, even if they read me as trans.  That is my objective, so by that measure, I pass.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 04, 2018, 01:36:01 PM



Passing only works in a world that rejects a gender spectrum.

Hey, you asked.  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn

This is so true. Once you reject the gender binary, passing becomes relative. Thank you for sharing this wisdom, Devlyn!  You just made me feel a whole lot better!


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Quote from: JoniComeLately on March 04, 2018, 02:12:37 PM
This is so true. Once you reject the gender binary, passing becomes relative. Thank you for sharing this wisdom, Devlyn!  You just made me feel a whole lot better!

Just another service I offer!  ;D

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes I pass.

Passing. Sometimes yes. Sometimes not. I'm pre everything. Last time I obviously passed was in girls sauna. (To not make anyone uncomfortable, pre op). I stood in t-shirt and panites an fixed my hair. A woman in the shower did not dare to come out. She opened the door and stared confused at me. I smiled at her. She closed the door. 30 sek later she opened the door again and was still confused. She came to her senses and finally stepped out. I have a G-cup. Apparantly people don't look at guys chests. Haha

My voice gives me away every time though. But I hope T will fix that.


Tony

I think so or at least everyone treats me as if I do.
Who knows really but I hope that I do.

For those that are not happy with their passing percentage, just keep trying, keep putting yourself out there and always display an attitude of self assurance and confidence. 
There are lots of little things that will help a person pass, not just looks and not just voice.  I mentioned this in another thread... go people watching in a mall, an airport, a restaurant, etc and watch the men and women and how they move, how they sit, how they eat their meal, etc, etc.  You will see differences that you can apply to you advantage.

Fortunately for me, after 3 years of HRT I have been now been living full time for 16 months and pass 100%...  lucky for me as my old male self I was never very masculine looking and with my slight build and with my not very manly voice,  transitioning came comparatively easy for me for which I am very thankful. 
As soon as I became full time I quit my middle manager job and I relocated to another town, a very small town, started my own business, and as far as I know, after 16 months no one in town knows of my male past.  I have several groups of friends, men and women.... and I am in a small group of women, perhaps 5 or 6, we go to the local gym frequently... and so far I have passed the locker room "test".   Things couldn't be better!

Quote from: Aspiringperson on March 04, 2018, 03:38:05 PM
For those that are not happy with their passing percentage, just keep trying, keep putting yourself out there and always display an attitude of self assurance and confidence. 
There are lots of little things that will help a person pass, not just looks and not just voice.  I mentioned this in another thread... go people watching in a mall, an airport, a restaurant, etc and watch the men and women and how they move, how they sit, how they eat their meal, etc, etc.  You will see differences that you can apply to you advantage.

Fortunately for me, after 3 years of HRT I have been now been living full time for 16 months and pass 100%...  lucky for me as my old male self I was never very masculine looking and with my slight build and with my not very manly voice,  transitioning came comparatively easy for me for which I am very thankful. 
As soon as I became full time I quit my middle manager job and I relocated to another town, a very small town, started my own business, and as far as I know, after 16 months no one in town knows of my male past.  I have several groups of friends, men and women.... and I am in a small group of women, perhaps 5 or 6, we go to the local gym frequently... and so far I have passed the locker room "test".   Things couldn't be better!

How tall are you? If you don't mind me asking and not that it even matters!

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Quote from: Allison S on March 04, 2018, 03:50:34 PM
How tall are you? If you don't mind me asking and not that it even matters!

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@ Allison S:  5' 5" if I puff up my hair... most likely 5' 4" dripping wet.  I know that transwomen that are taller have a more difficult time...
,,,but I have cis girlfriends that I go to the gym with that are much taller, one is 5' 11" and one is 6' 2" and they are beautiful and popular women.
Aspiringperson

Quote from: Aspiringperson on March 04, 2018, 03:56:40 PM
@ Allison S:  5' 5" if I puff up my hair... most likely 5' 4" dripping wet.  I know that transwomen that are taller have a more difficult time...
,,,but I have cis girlfriends that I go to the gym with that are much taller, one is 5' 11" and one is 6' 2" and they are beautiful and popular women.
Aspiringperson

I'm 5'7" but my hands and feet are huge...[emoji17]

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I am frequently misgendered, but I try very hard to live for myself and not for other people.

Don't pass  (over 6' big build, growly voice) but look OK & am accepted or mix with people were gender doesn't matter (bikers, punks)

Usually people these days address me as ma'am if they use any pronoun at all.  So I guess I pass or at least leave them guessing.  FWIW, I'm 5'11 and not especially petite.


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My dream is to pass and I've worked on a lot of things about me for many years to really try to pass.  I'm finally coming to terms that I'm never going to completely pass.  Yes if people don't stop and get a good look at me or if I'm across the room then I do pass.  Most people treat me as a woman but I'm not passing as a cis-women.  They are just accepting me for whom I am.  I think I always have that dream of the ideal passing.  But like I said above, I'm coming to terms and feel accepted from most people as a women.  Not passing but accepted.  Julie

Yeah, most of the time, I assume. I don't, like, ask people, but my interactions involve correct gendering and I don't notice any starts or stares. That's all I want.

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I get gendered correctly most of the time and that works for me.

  I'm 6'3" and north of 200 pounds so I really don't think I'm passing for cis even if I some how get my make up perfect. 

I also haven't worried too much about my voice yet so like never on the phone.

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I pass if it's dark.


I think I can pass with some makeup on and if people don't look too hard or too long.

I pass. It's been a good long while since I have been misgendered.

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I was misgendered last night, the first in months, at a Unitarian Universalist church event by someone who met me through that church, and has never known the old person.  Even though an accident, it tells me that there are still folks clinging to the concept at some level that I am not 'real', and pretending to be female.

This does not surprise me.  It disappoints me, of course, but with a group this large, it is to be expected.

Misgendering is a microaggression for trans folks, and has an outsized impact compared to intent.  (I wouldn't be writing this if I could just shrug it off, "get over it", "get used to it", or similar such sage advice I get from the cisgender folks I know.  They don't have an experiential reference for something like gender incongruity, and do not understand the impact this can have.)

In last night's misgendering the person handled this correctly, a simple "Oops, sorry.  She said..."   Thank goodness some of the training effort is sticking.  I haven't had anyone I know try to defend misgendering in over a year.

Quote from: Michelle_P on March 04, 2018, 07:28:43 PM
I was misgendered last night, the first in months, at a Unitarian Universalist church event by someone who met me through that church, and has never known the old person.  Even though an accident, it tells me that there are still folks clinging to the concept at some level that I am not 'real', and pretending to be female.

This does not surprise me.  It disappoints me, of course, but with a group this large, it is to be expected.

Misgendering is a microaggression for trans folks, and has an outsized impact compared to intent.  (I wouldn't be writing this if I could just shrug it off, "get over it", "get used to it", or similar such sage advice I get from the cisgender folks I know.  They don't have an experiential reference for something like gender incongruity, and do not understand the impact this can have.)

In last night's misgendering the person handled this correctly, a simple "Oops, sorry.  She said..."   Thank goodness some of the training effort is sticking.  I haven't had anyone I know try to defend misgendering in over a year.

@ Michelle P:  So very sorry to hear about that harrowing and terrible experience... hopefully there were no other "ear" in on the conversation.  The only advice worth hearing is to don't let this dissuade you from presenting yourself as female.  Get back on the horse and do it again with your head held high.  You look terrific in your avatar picture.
Hugs to you.
Aspiringperson

I have been on HRT for 3 years now.

Today, I was walking on the beach and I stopped to face into the wind and brush my hair out of my face. I heard some cheering and hooting and I looked up to see about a dozen men staring at me.

I would call that a pass. Don't you think so?

Quote from: Dani on March 04, 2018, 07:53:50 PM
I have been on HRT for 3 years now.

Today, I was walking on the beach and I stopped to face into the wind and brush my hair out of my face. I heard some cheering and hooting and I looked up to see about a dozen men staring at me.

I would call that a pass. Don't you think so?

@ Dani:  Wow-whee, that had to be a terrifically gratifying experience for you.  I have had some of those confidence boosting moments also... it feels so goooood !
Thanks for the good report.
Aspiringperson

I really do not  think that I pass at work yes as I work with confused people but in the real world I feel like I do not pass based on looks lone. I have some mannerisms down perfectly 

As long as people didn't  know me before I started transition yes. If I'm with family it gets harder because the kids call me Dad, but generally as long as I don't get lazy with voice or shaving I'm good.

Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on March 04, 2018, 08:13:32 PM
I really do not  think that I pass at work yes as I work with confused people but in the real world I feel like I do not pass based on looks lone. I have some mannerisms down perfectly

@ natalie.ashlyn:  I do not agree with you about you not passing... after seeing your pictures that you have posted I think you look terrific and look like a beautiful woman...  of course looking at pictures and seeing you in real life are two different things and of course keep working on mannerisms and female movements and gestures... as you said, it's just as important to passing as appearance and dress.  Keep on getting out there as a proud and confident woman.
Hugs to you,
Aspiringperson

Quote from: Aspiringperson on March 04, 2018, 08:23:10 PM
@ natalie.ashlyn:  I do not agree with you about you not passing... after seeing your pictures that you have posted I think you look terrific and look like a beautiful woman...  of course looking at pictures and seeing you in real life are two different things and of course keep working on mannerisms and female movements and gestures... as you said, it's just as important to passing as appearance and dress.  Keep on getting out there as a proud and confident woman.
Hugs to you,
Aspiringperson

Aww  Thank you I needed that. :)  I just doubt myself a lot with make up and yes alot of it i can looked like I do in the pics and I really love the way I look in pics and (there is no filters on them except the funny cute obvious ones) but when look in a mirror that is when I feel like crap  I don't know if it is my mind or mirrors that seem to hate me.

Despite being over 6'5" and 250lbs I do pass, even for cis. I was shocked that a trans woman I met at an event thought I was cis. I think my lack of an Adam's apple, feminine voice and mannerisms go a long way than just beside looks.

I don't know, I just don't. I've lost the comprehension, that how do I actually look? All I see is a male from mirror.

But then again, I've never even once been misgendered (but then again we don't use he/she kind of words in Finnish) and people seem to treat me as a woman.

But I get very paranoid and think, that everybody are just being nice...and "playing along" with me...

I wish I one day would see myself from the mirror and know how I look.

I pass except for making phone calls. Love ordering a Pizza and going to pick it up and get the yes Ma'am your husband phoned this in for you etc... Or calling a home owner to set an appointment for an appraisal and then showing up and them asking where is the man I spoke to on the phone?! I just tell them he is my assistant and makes my appointments. I keep debating VFS, just have not heard a lot of wonderful results. I do practice daily and see a speech therapist 1 to 4 times a month so will see...

Quote from: Margaret_B on March 04, 2018, 09:03:53 PM
I pass except for making phone calls. Love ordering a Pizza and going to pick it up and get the yes Ma'am your husband phoned this in for you etc... Or calling a home owner to set an appointment for an appraisal and then showing up and them asking where is the man I spoke to on the phone?! I just tell them he is my assistant and makes my appointments. I keep debating VFS, just have not heard a lot of wonderful results. I do practice daily and see a speech therapist 1 to 4 times a month so will see...

@ Margaret_B:  your avatar picture is terrific and I see why you visually pass with no problem.  There are plenty of cis women that have a huskier voice... some are movie stars...
continue with you voice training but also continue going out there as a confident and self assured woman.
Hugs to you,
Aspiringperson

yesno.  Depends on the person in question.  More often than not, I am gendered correctly.  Doesn't mean they didn't figure out I'm trans, but not being called the wrong gender was my goal, so passing enough for me.

Quote from: Aspiringperson on March 04, 2018, 09:13:34 PM
@ Margaret_B:  your avatar picture is terrific and I see why you visually pass with no problem.  There are plenty of cis women that have a huskier voice... some are movie stars...
continue with you voice training but also continue going out there as a confident and self assured woman.
Hugs to you,
Aspiringperson

Thank you for the kind words. That was me on 12/31/17 getting nails done for gcs. I am a bit thinner now, but feel fantastic! I will be having the second stage the labiaplacty on 04/30/18 right before turning 55. I use to tell my friends that "Phil" would be on to the next life by age 53... he went away on 12/07/2016 .

Quote from: ToriJo on March 04, 2018, 04:20:26 PM
I am frequently misgendered, but I try very hard to live for myself and not for other people.

That's kind of where I'm at. I don't pass; and being "sir'd" does annoy me. Several times, I have corrected the person who has done it. But I present as I do for myself, not for others.

Maybe I would feel differently if passing were a possibility. I think I may simply have come to terms with the fact that this is my reality, and adjusted my expectations accordingly. Too, I found that you don't have to look cis to be attractive. At this point, I don't care if people know I'm trans; I think that, if I did pass, I'd always be a little suspicious of others who might not accept me if they knew the truth. I wonder if not passing can actually be preferable, at least in some cases, for this reason.

There are some people who "knew me when," however, to whom I would dearly love to pass. Recognizing me from before and rejecting or scorning me because I transitioned would be very difficult for me emotionally.

I think I pass pretty good.  My voice on the phone still gets me sir'ed but I just correct them and move on. I get gendered correctly when I'm out.  I started HRT exactly 3 years ago and have been full time since June of 2015.  At 6'2" tall and 195 lbs I am bigger than most people, especially when wearing heels, but that doesn't seem to matter.  Most people at work know I'm trans and they have all been good about gendering me correctly (it did take a while for them to get it right consistently because they knew the old me for over 25 years).  I'm very lucky to not have to worry much anymore about how people perceive me.  I recently spent the day with a couple of cis women and I had assumed they knew I was trans (they work for a doctor who does surgery on trans patients).  After my friend was finished with finished with her surgery I mentioned having gone through bottom surgery and they both looked shocked.  They had no idea I was trans so I guess that means I am passing pretty good.

When I was young, it was easy to pass for a girl. Even in my 20s and 30s it only took minimal effort to get fixed up.

Alas, the age bomb has hit me and I no longer pass.

But the advantage is that now I no longer care if I pass, I dress girly for ME, not for anyone else!

Apparently I do.

This is a really fascinating thing to me.  Because here I thought there was no way in hell I could ever have a chance at passing.  And I allowed that fear to control me for many years and allowed it to keep me from transitioning a long time ago.  Now, here I am, coming up on 8 months on HRT, and have reached a point where for the first time, when I put my wig and makeup on, I actually "feel" like a girl, and when I look in the mirror I "See" a girl.  And I have gone out in public a lot more lately in "girl mode" and get very very few funny looks now. Mostly people just glance at me like I am any other girl walking through the store, and they go back to what they were doing.  So I guess that means that from a distance anyway, I must be pretty well passing now.  Because in the past, everyone would look at me and whisper something to the person they are with.  So it has been an incredibly amazing experience for me to see this shift recently. 

  Over this past weekend, I dressed up all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and it was the most incredible feeling in the world to finally get to be myself!  My wife and I had lots of fun, going shopping together, and to a baby shower, and out to coffee with friends, out to a bar for beers with friends, and everywhere I went, I was treated very nice, and normal, and people just talked to me like normal even though I have a lower voice that does not sound feminine at all.  With the exception of one chinese restaurant.....I stopped in there to pick up a to go order, and when I went in, the lady called me "Sir".   Kind of knocked me back a bit after a couple days of not a single misgender incident.  But that's okay.  Many many more of those incidents in my future.  I can accept that.  ha ha

  I even went by myself to a thift store to look for some more clothes since I am at an extremely fun period of my transition right now, where I am finally starting to really see a lot of feminzation happening to my face, and therefore it is far easier for me to "Want" to dress as myself more, and I have been having tons of fun experimenting with new outfits.  It was so nice, to be able to walk around that thrift store just like any other girl there shopping.  I got zero funny looks, I found a new dress, and a cute skirt, and a couple cute shirts, and went and tried them all on, and then went up front and paid, and the cashier was friendly, and just acted as if she had no idea.  I know she must have because I actually talked to her, and once my voice comes out, it's all over. ha ha  But even if she did know, thank God for people like her who just go with it and treat us like normal.

  If a person were to tell me that I should not go out dressed like a girl until I am able to pass, I would get very upset at that person.  Because yes, many of us desire to "pass" because we identify as female, in every way, including wishing we were born cis females.  Don't get me wrong.  I love that I am trans for the amazing opportunity that it has allowed me to see the world in a different light.  I am thankful for the growth opportunities it has offered me, and I would never even remotely imply that someone who doesn't pass is somehow lesser.  But.........if I could have my wish, I would wish that I had been born a cis girl, and could now just live my life not having to worry about whether I pass or not, and what potential physical harm and emotional struggle that could bring.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4655/39928610494_3758a19967_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmyNS) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmyNS) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152563975@N08/)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4797/39928608454_8dd178653b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmycG) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmycG) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152563975@N08/)

Quote from: LaRell on March 05, 2018, 12:45:35 PM
This is a really fascinating thing to me.  Because here I thought there was no way in hell I could ever have a chance at passing.  And I allowed that fear to control me for many years and allowed it to keep me from transitioning a long time ago.  Now, here I am, coming up on 8 months on HRT, and have reached a point where for the first time, when I put my wig and makeup on, I actually "feel" like a girl, and when I look in the mirror I "See" a girl.  And I have gone out in public a lot more lately in "girl mode" and get very very few funny looks now. Mostly people just glance at me like I am any other girl walking through the store, and they go back to what they were doing.  So I guess that means that from a distance anyway, I must be pretty well passing now.  Because in the past, everyone would look at me and whisper something to the person they are with.  So it has been an incredibly amazing experience for me to see this shift recently. 

  Over this past weekend, I dressed up all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and it was the most incredible feeling in the world to finally get to be myself!  My wife and I had lots of fun, going shopping together, and to a baby shower, and out to coffee with friends, out to a bar for beers with friends, and everywhere I went, I was treated very nice, and normal, and people just talked to me like normal even though I have a lower voice that does not sound feminine at all.  With the exception of one chinese restaurant.....I stopped in there to pick up a to go order, and when I went in, the lady called me "Sir".   Kind of knocked me back a bit after a couple days of not a single misgender incident.  But that's okay.  Many many more of those incidents in my future.  I can accept that.  ha ha

  I even went by myself to a thift store to look for some more clothes since I am at an extremely fun period of my transition right now, where I am finally starting to really see a lot of feminzation happening to my face, and therefore it is far easier for me to "Want" to dress as myself more, and I have been having tons of fun experimenting with new outfits.  It was so nice, to be able to walk around that thrift store just like any other girl there shopping.  I got zero funny looks, I found a new dress, and a cute skirt, and a couple cute shirts, and went and tried them all on, and then went up front and paid, and the cashier was friendly, and just acted as if she had no idea.  I know she must have because I actually talked to her, and once my voice comes out, it's all over. ha ha  But even if she did know, thank God for people like her who just go with it and treat us like normal.

  If a person were to tell me that I should not go out dressed like a girl until I am able to pass, I would get very upset at that person.  Because yes, many of us desire to "pass" because we identify as female, in every way, including wishing we were born cis females.  Don't get me wrong.  I love that I am trans for the amazing opportunity that it has allowed me to see the world in a different light.  I am thankful for the growth opportunities it has offered me, and I would never even remotely imply that someone who doesn't pass is somehow lesser.  But.........if I could have my wish, I would wish that I had been born a cis girl, and could now just live my life not having to worry about whether I pass or not, and what potential physical harm and emotional struggle that could bring.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4655/39928610494_3758a19967_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmyNS) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmyNS) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152563975@N08/)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4797/39928608454_8dd178653b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmycG) (https://flic.kr/p/23QmycG) by  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152563975@N08/)

@ LaRell:  I think that in your pictures that you look as if you pass very well... even close up in my opinion.

You look terrific and quite feminine in appearance.  Go out there presenting as a female and display confidence and self-assurance and you should do fine.
Aspiringperson

Passing is a big issue for most of us; do I pass, I need to pass if I am to live as me......It has been that way for me a lot of the time. But as I get on with my journey I have come to realize that acceptance is what I am truly seeking. I want/need to be out in the world and both treated and accepted as a human, a person. Do I pass? Most of the time, maybe, I am not sure. I get sir'd on the phone and occasionally I see folks whispering between themselves at neighboring tables. It is my desire to be out and open with my transgender position and will take any opportunity to teach inquiring minds so we are often overheard discussing transgender issues, that will raise an eye from most in earshot. My wife and I have both been collecting years for some time now and that makes it easier for me; no one really looks at an old lady and rarely will they treat one rudely to one. Pass, don't know but I am happy living openly and accepted in my world.

Tia Anne

Well, I seem to have a good knack of doing drag makeup or otherwise wearing clothing in such a way to fool people that I'm a guy. I've also sported a physically androgynous appearance, because my build is such and I used to be relatively muscular for an FAB person.  I especially knew how to make a very convincing stubble with nothing more than eyeliner or watercolor.
While I haven't been actively trying to pass for a couple of years, when I did I often passed well even with my high-pitched voice.  Sometimes I didn't need makeup or do anything to my body (I'd just look like an overweight 14 year old boy or something...which I guess wasn't always great but I was happy to have something work :p). 

In the middle of my 2nd year of HRT I started to pass almost all the time, that is when I became full-time.
Then things really progressed soon after that, by the end of my 3rd year of HRT I feel that I am convincingly female and have both male and female friends that only know me as female.  In fact I have a group of 5 cis girl friends that I frequently go to the local gym with and there has never been a comment nor a stare... and I even got through the locker room scenario without any issues or questions.... that locker room thing was one of my biggest fears.

So yes, I feel I pass.

Quote from: Aspiringperson on March 05, 2018, 10:32:39 PM
In the middle of my 2nd year of HRT I started to pass almost all the time, that is when I became full-time.
Then things really progressed soon after that, by the end of my 3rd year of HRT I feel that I am convincingly female and have both male and female friends that only know me as female.  In fact I have a group of 5 cis girl friends that I frequently go to the local gym with and there has never been a comment nor a stare... and I even got through the locker room scenario without any issues or questions.... that locker room thing was one of my biggest fears.

So yes, I feel I pass.

I'm surprised it took until your second year for you.  With your smaller frame and great features I have the feeling you were passing consistently long before that.

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Yes, I can very easily see how there would be no question at all as to whether you are "female" or not.  You look very much like you are a cis female.  It's amazing and that makes me so incredibly happy for you!

Quote from: Aspiringperson on March 05, 2018, 10:32:39 PM
In the middle of my 2nd year of HRT I started to pass almost all the time, that is when I became full-time.
Then things really progressed soon after that, by the end of my 3rd year of HRT I feel that I am convincingly female and have both male and female friends that only know me as female.  In fact I have a group of 5 cis girl friends that I frequently go to the local gym with and there has never been a comment nor a stare... and I even got through the locker room scenario without any issues or questions.... that locker room thing was one of my biggest fears.

So yes, I feel I pass.

No, but I'm not trying to.

In fact I'm going out of my way to make sure I don't pass (without making myself dysphoric) because I'm not ready to come out just yet.

Yes.  On the phone and in person.  I still get a few longer than average stares and people who knew me from before transition still screw up pronouns here and there. 

I don't get much in the way of guys hitting on me, but they do check me out.  I suppose a 5'11" chick with dark hair and a solid build (as in she could take you in a fight) is kind of intimidating.  On the other hand, lesbian bartenders LOVE me. 

Quote from: amberwaves on March 06, 2018, 10:00:53 AM
I'm surprised it took until your second year for you.  With your smaller frame and great features I have the feeling you were passing consistently long before that.

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I thought that too!! I'm 5'7" but if I was shorter it would be even better. Especially because I love wearing heels

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@LaRell OMG, what a cute couple you and your wife are!

Quote from: Allison S on March 06, 2018, 01:52:19 PM
I thought that too!! I'm 5'7" but if I was shorter it would be even better. Especially because I love wearing heels

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5'10" no issues with passing or heels.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

I pass quite well, but (unfortunately) only from the neck down. I am a freak of nature (and HRT).....

I never get anything but "ma'am," on the phone or in person, so I guess not.  I'm hoping the T will lower my voice until I can at least pass over the phone.  No luck so far, though.

I'd feel safer going out in public if I passed, but I suppose it's not a disaster that I don't.  I feel much better when I present as male, and that's what's really important to me.

Quote from: Dani on March 04, 2018, 07:53:50 PM
I have been on HRT for 3 years now.

Today, I was walking on the beach and I stopped to face into the wind and brush my hair out of my face. I heard some cheering and hooting and I looked up to see about a dozen men staring at me.

I would call that a pass. Don't you think so?

😁😁😁😁😁😁❤️💕

I get so many more feminine pronouns now, that is the main thing I care about.  I have gotten odd looks sometimes, but I consider that a sign of going in the right direction.  If they are confused, I must be doing something right.

Quote from: Allison S on March 04, 2018, 04:14:54 PM
I'm 5'7" but my hands and feet are huge...[emoji17]

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I am 5'8" and size 12 shoes.  I'd say it isn't the size, but really the shape.  The shape of my feet look more feminine so I don't find the size an issue.  I love my left hand, but hate my right middle finger.  Though I probably never should have cracked my knuckles for so long, and come to think of it, I mostly cracked my right hand.

I have seen lots of cis women with larger hands and fatter fingers than me.  I hope that gives some perspective.

Quote from: KathyLauren on March 06, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
@LaRell OMG, what a cute couple you and your wife are!

I agree with Kathy! Absolutely no worries, LaRell. You need to quit doubting. You've got it, girl. And that picture with your wife is heart melting!

Stephanie

Well, I guess I have to admit that I'm passing pretty well. I attended the weekly trivia contest with my wife at a local restaurant, and our team was bantering with the neighboring table. One of the guys came over and wondered who the new ringer was (I got there late). He was doing all the familiar things that guys do - hand on my arm, hand resting on my back, a little inside my personal space. [Mini-squeee]

My wife decided to go home right after the contest, but it's such a beautiful night I hung around the square, shopped the vendor tents, and stopped into StarSchmucks. Got ma'amed, and of course had Stephanie written on my cup. On the way out a nice gentleman held the door for me with a smile.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180307/9438407bf54411ad21e544ac9f21dbfa.jpg)

Earlier in the day after my Hot Needle Torture, I ate AlFresco at a nice restaurant with no weirdness.

I was even fairly happy with my voice tonight.

So yeah... SQUEEEEEE!

Stephanie

Quote from: JeannieLuv13 on March 06, 2018, 05:07:27 PM
I get so many more feminine pronouns now, that is the main thing I care about.  I have gotten odd looks sometimes, but I consider that a sign of going in the right direction.  If they are confused, I must be doing something right.

I am 5'8" and size 12 shoes.  I'd say it isn't the size, but really the shape.  The shape of my feet look more feminine so I don't find the size an issue.  I love my left hand, but hate my right middle finger.  Though I probably never should have cracked my knuckles for so long, and come to think of it, I mostly cracked my right hand.

I have seen lots of cis women with larger hands and fatter fingers than me.  I hope that gives some perspective.

Oh thats great! Are you on hrt and for how long? If you don't me asking, how old are you?

Trying see whether this is workable for me or if I should back down..

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Quote from: Margaret_B on March 04, 2018, 09:03:53 PM
I pass except for making phone calls. Love ordering a Pizza and going to pick it up and get the yes Ma'am your husband phoned this in for you etc... Or calling a home owner to set an appointment for an appraisal and then showing up and them asking where is the man I spoke to on the phone?! I just tell them he is my assistant and makes my appointments. I keep debating VFS, just have not heard a lot of wonderful results. I do practice daily and see a speech therapist 1 to 4 times a month so will see...

Loved your post.  It made me smile.  I can just picture the people... but where is the man.  He's just my assistant.  Plus you photo does look really good.

Funny story on passing.  I just got off work, I'm in boy mode with male jeans and polo shirt.  I'm on HRT so my breast are little and don't stick out much.  I thought I looked 100% male.  My wife and I go to Red Robin restaurant and as the hostess seats us she says have a good dinner ladies.  Here I'm not even trying and I called a lady and sometimes when I really try I get mis-gendered.  go figure.  Julie

Quote from: Julie -2010 on March 06, 2018, 08:31:49 PM
Loved your post.  It made me smile.  I can just picture the people... but where is the man.  He's just my assistant.  Plus you photo does look really good.

It makes me smile now too, it did not for a long time just figured out a way to cope with it. To be honest some times when I hear miss or ma'am I still look about.. Then it hits me OH ME!
I did not stop getting misgendered until about 7 months on HRT(at 15 months as of today on HRT) then it just stopped. I should look for an old picture of me and post it, my partner might have some. I am an oddity on HRT I guess... I went from 272 when I started, now down to a bit over 200 it goes up and down 3 to 5 lbs. I was 6'1 when I started now lucky to hit 5'11 on a good day. My feet have moved down 2 sizes, I am guessing it is weight loss and not squishing them. Body hair is mostly gone or super fine if any is to be found, beard hair is still there but finer might be because I did laser for a year and it got rid of half or a bit less now it gets the thunder stick an hour a week or more depending on if Nanci can get me in.

An update to my previous post on this thread. I have pretty much believed that I pass and often go weeks at a time without even giving it a thought. This morning I was at the gym and changing after my workout. I was down to pretty much just my panties and putting on my skirt when a woman that I had never met before walks up saying, "you are trans aren't you?". Then she began to talk about her transgender child. I am fully open for discussing my transgender nature and helping folks learn and cope.....but golly, right in the changing room with women coming and going and me half naked.....I wanted to just melt into the floor. So much for being pretty stealth and comfortable and cool with it all.

Tia Anne

at around 4 months on t, I would say it's about 50/50.

I can also update do I pass or not: I Do Not Pass.

Few days ago one of my collegues asked me, that where does my name come. How did I choose that? What was my name before.

So, I still look like a 100% male. No change at all.

I'm quite tired of living to be honest. I just don't find anything worth of celebrating of being trans. That's the problem. If I would be proud of being trans, then I guess it wouldn't bother me that much, that I just look like a guy in dress, but as I'm not proud at all...just so tired.

It does not matter if I pass.  I'm not quite famous but I am a trial attorney in the Los Angeles criminal courts and as a guy, everybody knew my name and face.  So it really does not matter how feminine I am, somewhere in the courts people are going to be talking about how I used to be "Mr. _______."

I did not do this to prove myself to others.  I did this because in order to love myself I had to love the girl in the mirror no matter how she looks.

Fortunately in my eyes the girl in the mirror is a cutie, and I'm happy with that.  And to me that is all that matters and all that should matter.

Quote from: CarlyMcx on March 08, 2018, 10:42:30 PM
It does not matter if I pass.  I'm not quite famous but I am a trial attorney in the Los Angeles criminal courts and as a guy, everybody knew my name and face.  So it really does not matter how feminine I am, somewhere in the courts people are going to be talking about how I used to be "Mr. _______."

I did not do this to prove myself to others.  I did this because in order to love myself I had to love the girl in the mirror no matter how she looks.

Fortunately in my eyes the girl in the mirror is a cutie, and I'm happy with that.  And to me that is all that matters and all that should matter.

Did we ever have a case together ?  I've been an LA County Deputy DA for 30 years and have worked in the downtown courthouse area for most of my career (except for a few years working in the Sylmar Juvi court for a few years).  I've been in transition for 3 years and I look nothing like my old self. I'm still running into people who haven't seen me in years and they can't believe I'm that guy who used to always wear cowboy boots. I knew I couldn't hide my past (not that I even want to) so I am very open about being me. I think people are somewhat in awe of how dramatic my change has been.  It's funny that me and Mia used to be Springsteen going buddies as our old selves and we have both transitioned.  I've had nothing but respect from the LA legal community in my transition. So now I'm courious if you've heard anything about my transition from the defense bar.  Hugs girl. Keep rocking it girl ❤️

In the right photo and on video - provided I don't talk - yeah, but irl, no. Not in the harsh light of day.

I am still super new to the whole concept of even going out in public.  I've only just recently started going out presenting as female, and mostly only on the weekends.  Today was one of those days.  And something interesting that I've noticed.......I know there's no way I "pass".  I mean, certain pictures from just the right angles can look really good, and I feel like I look okay in the mirror, but go out knowing that I am not passing.  However something interesting I have noticed.........there is no indication whatsoever from the people around me that I come into contact with when out and about, that I am not passing.  I mean, people just walk right by me and don't even take a second look, they talk to me like normal even though I have not succesfully feminized my voice yet.  It is the strangest thing.  It's as if transness is so normal to the people I go around, that either I really am passing for the most part, or they just simply do not care and think of me as "normal".  It is so weird!  Because naturally, pretty much every trans person when going out dressed up for the first while, is super paranoid and worried about what people are thinking.  And I was in the beginning (I still am in the beginning) but after a few times out, and realizing the world didn't come to an end, I felt so much more confident going out more.   I used to only be able to go out if my wife was with me.  Because I liked to have her support and knowing that it tends to take away some of the awkwardness people feel, when you are with someone else.  Since it kind of tends to make you look more "normal" to people, since "normal" people have friends I guess. ha ha. 

  But anyway.........it is so weird, because I know I have a large manly upper body, and still have fairly big upper arms, and I still walk like a "man", and I know surely there is no way I actually "pass".  But peoples reactions out in public are really confusing to me.  If I was NOT passing, I would expect to get a lot more double takes, or people outright staring and things.  But it's as if I am just the same person I've always been.  And so it builds up my confidence tremendously and makes me more comfortable to even go out alone without the support of my wife, which is a tremendously huge step for me!  This evening I needed a CR2 battery for my camera's remote trigger, so I went to Walmart to get one while my wife was at Yoga teacher training, and it was just as if I was any other woman there.  Seriously.  It is so strange.  I mean......It's awesome, but confuses me.  Don't know what I'm expecting.....for people to yell ">-bleeped-< freak!" at me or what. ha ha

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4798/39824164255_d5f3bf739e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23F8fzD) (https://flic.kr/p/23F8fzD)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152563975@N08/)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4800/38909504570_d0274104fa_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22hio85) (https://flic.kr/p/22hio85)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152563975@N08/)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4790/26848225178_a78388f72c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GUuaY7) (https://flic.kr/p/GUuaY7)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152563975@N08/)

snipped:

Quote from: LaRell on March 09, 2018, 10:00:04 PM
I am still super new to the whole concept of even going out in public.  I've only just recently started going out presenting as female, and mostly only on the weekends.  Today was one of those days.  And something interesting that I've noticed.......I know there's no way I "pass".  I mean, certain pictures from just the right angles can look really good, and I feel like I look okay in the mirror, but go out knowing that I am not passing.  However something interesting I have noticed.........there is no indication whatsoever from the people around me that I come into contact with when out and about, that I am not passing.  I mean, people just walk right by me and don't even take a second look, they talk to me like normal even though I have not succesfully feminized my voice yet.  It is the strangest thing.....   ......   .......    ......

@ LaRell:  For only being on HRT for a little over a half year your pictures look really good and already show some significant feminization....   transitioning requires patience... in my own transitioning I have found that nothing happens very fast or at least not as fast as we transgenders wish. I am just a month beyond 3 years of HRT and for me things really started happening in the 2nd year... but that is my experience and your experience will be your own and shouldn't be compared with how others respond to HRT.  Again, your pictures look great and it is no secret why weren't outed in your last presentation as a woman.   
Stay positive, display self confidence and self assurance and continue on your journey, it will be very exciting for sure
Best wishes to you and looking forward to more updates from you.
Danielle ... formerly Aspiringperson

Quote from: CarlyMcx on March 08, 2018, 10:42:30 PM
I did not do this to prove myself to others.  I did this because in order to love myself I had to love the girl in the mirror no matter how she looks.

Fortunately in my eyes the girl in the mirror is a cutie, and I'm happy with that.  And to me that is all that matters and all that should matter.

Me, too, Carly. I present female for me, not for the world.

It's really an inspiration, reading about your professional transition. Although I don't practice anymore, I keep my license current. I'll be doing CLE in June as me  :D for the first time. My principal concern isn't the reactions of other people; it's how I'm going to go to the bathroom.

Incidentally, I've only been full-time for a couple of weeks. I so don't pass; but I've been so surprised at the number of people who make a point of addressing me as "ma'am." I got it again today when I went to the post office. There's a clerk there who knew me as male. When I was transitioning, I sensed she was having some trouble adjusting; but today, when I went to her window, she addressed me as "ma'am," right off. So sweet.

I want all the girls here to know that passing is secondary -- truly, it is. Would I like to pass? Of course. Do I need to pass? Definitely not.

Quote from: CarlyMcx on March 08, 2018, 10:42:30 PM
It does not matter if I pass.  I'm not quite famous but I am a trial attorney in the Los Angeles criminal courts and as a guy, everybody knew my name and face.  So it really does not matter how feminine I am, somewhere in the courts people are going to be talking about how I used to be "Mr. _______."

I did not do this to prove myself to others.  I did this because in order to love myself I had to love the girl in the mirror no matter how she looks.

Fortunately in my eyes the girl in the mirror is a cutie, and I'm happy with that.  And to me that is all that matters and all that should matter.

@ CarlyMcx:
I love your attitude about passing... especially your comment: "girl in the mirror is a cutie, and I'm happy with that" ...  again a great attitude about your transition journey.
Best Wishes,
Danielle

Right from day one over two years ago I said I could not pass. Now a year after I started with herbals (don't take anymore), 6 months of dutastricide and aldacton and third month of estrogen I have a whole new view on that. I started dressing fem 5 weeks ago and I got my wig this week. When I came home wearing the wig I was suprised with the look but didn't realize how much until my wife said I was cute.
Today was the icing on the cake. I stopped to pick up a cheque from a long time customer and she didn't realize it was me until I spoke. I then stopped in at a store my friend runs. She has known me for 10 years and when she walked up to me she said can I help you ma'am. I said yes and she recognized my voice and couldn't believe it was me. This was an amazing feeling and one I never expected.
Last night My wife sent a picture to her dad of me fully dressed and full makeup to introduce Donna to him.
He sent back an email saying he like our new friend and wondered where we meet her and would not believe my wife that it was me, I ended up having to FaceTime him so he knew it was me.
The biggest and strangest part is I sometimes don't recognize myself in the mirror and it makes me sooooo happy

Nope, not even close. I post the occasional online photo picked out of 100 and heavily edited to make myself feel good, but in public, not even close.
Without my wig I look like a guy regardless of what I wear and how good my makeup is and that is long hair.
With the wig, I might get away with it 10% of the time.

It's the body mainly, not the face (although the face doesn't help haha) this crazy inverted triangle body

Quote from: LaRell on March 09, 2018, 10:00:04 PMI mean, people just walk right by me and don't even take a second look, they talk to me like normal even though I have not succesfully feminized my voice yet.  It is the strangest thing.  It's as if transness is so normal to the people I go around, that either I really am passing for the most part, or they just simply do not care and think of me as "normal".

LaRell, I loved reading your post!  I just kept saying, "Yes, yes, yes" as I read on.

A lot of people you pass on the street won't even see you.  If they see you, the won't notice anything about you.  Of the ones that notice you, most will think nothing of it.  A few might think, "She could be trans" but not many.  Most of those will not be sure.  Of the ones that are pretty sure, most will not be sure enough to do anything.  Of the ones that are certain, most are polite enough not to say or do anything out of the ordinary.  So the ones that will make a scene are so few that you may never encounter one.

I love the way you describe your confidence building as you discovered that.  That was exactly my experience, too.

BTW, great photos, too!

Quote from: Margaret_B on March 07, 2018, 01:52:10 AM
It makes me smile now too, it did not for a long time just figured out a way to cope with it. To be honest some times when I hear miss or ma'am I still look about.. Then it hits me OH ME!
I did not stop getting misgendered until about 7 months on HRT(at 15 months as of today on HRT) then it just stopped. I should look for an old picture of me and post it, my partner might have some. I am an oddity on HRT I guess... I went from 272 when I started, now down to a bit over 200 it goes up and down 3 to 5 lbs. I was 6'1 when I started now lucky to hit 5'11 on a good day. My feet have moved down 2 sizes, I am guessing it is weight loss and not squishing them. Body hair is mostly gone or super fine if any is to be found, beard hair is still there but finer might be because I did laser for a year and it got rid of half or a bit less now it gets the thunder stick an hour a week or more depending on if Nanci can get me in.

Margaret,  Congrats on losing the weight.  I loss 40 lbs before I started on HRT and have mostly kept it off.  Being on HRT (13 months) it is really hard to lose weight.  At least I'm maintaining what I lost.  I 5'6" so that helps some.  I have flat feet so I haven noticed any decrease in size (dang).  I did a ton of laser and doing some of the electrolysis now.  I do like the finer hair I get now.
Julie 

No not yet, I hope I will in the future. Last week I went to see my doctor, I was feeling good so I went dressed fem, but not overly, pair of jeans, nice top and my hair feminine, although it's still growing out but definitely long for a man. I was stood at reception waiting when a lady approached another receptionist and asked if the gentleman (me) was first, well it made me feel awful, at least it lets me know where I stand. It's early days on HRT for me so I'm trying to look on the bright side.

Nicole

My body passes yeah. I have no bulk, no broad shoulders or really any masculine features except for my feet, as I wear a size 11, which is weird because I have small legs (I wear a size 4 in women's skinny jeans)

My face does have some masculine features, so to combat this I will wear a medical mask at all times. Sure people will think I am sick, but it's a lot better than being called a sir or him. I am having plastic facial surgery in a year, so I just have to hold out until then.

I must have erased, and rewritten this comment a few times, as it sounds like I am bragging, which I hope it does not come off that way. Admittedly, I still do not like myself enough to post a picture, but maybe someday.

Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 10, 2018, 04:36:39 PM
Nope, not even close. I post the occasional online photo picked out of 100 and heavily edited to make myself feel good, but in public, not even close.
Without my wig I look like a guy regardless of what I wear and how good my makeup is and that is long hair.
With the wig, I might get away with it 10% of the time.

It's the body mainly, not the face (although the face doesn't help haha) this crazy inverted triangle body

I know it's an important issue; but I think passing is overrated. It's not just "whistling in the wind"; it's more about presentation being for oneself, rather than for other people.

But just to give you a high-five ... Your avatar photo is very cute.  :) You go, girl!

I would imagine there are some who feel like you should wait to present as female til the hormones have enough time to do whatever they are going to do.   But if I was dressing for other people, I wouldn't be doing this whole thing.  I'm doing it for myself and my own happiness.  Not to flaunt myself or get attention or anything like that.  I just want to be happy and comfortable.  And I have reached a point lately where I actually feel less comfortable going out in boy mode than I do in girl mode.  Incredibly interesting thing to experience being so new to the whole thing.  And believe me, I question it.  I say to myself "well, if the HRT has had these kind  Of amazing feminizing effects already this early on, then surely after a year or two there is going to be so many more changes, so should I just wait to start presenting as female til people start mistaking me for female even when I'm boy mode?  I think that would be great, but why suffer in the meantime?  Why not just feel happy, and confident, and not worry about whether I pass or not, and just do what makes me feel comfortable and happy.  And if I'm happy, then mission accomplished.  I know what it's like to feel so wrong in your body, yet to feel like because you know you can't "pass", you continue to live in sadness not getting to be yourself.  Of course there are bad experiences to be had.  Jerks who would have the guts to say something.  But my experience so far has been very positive.  As long as you dress appropriately and don't overdo it, and don't go out looking like a hooker or something, most people aren't even going to notice, and those that do don't matter anyway, and aren't likely that o actually say anything.  It actually gives me a little bit of a thrill feeling when I see someone do a double take or stare at me a little longer than normal.  I could choose to let that make me afraid to go out next time.  But no.  I choose to be positive and look at it as a funny part of the whole experience.

Quote from: LaRell on March 11, 2018, 02:49:10 PM
I would imagine there are some who feel like you should wait to present as female til the hormones have enough time to do whatever they are going to do.   But if I was dressing for other people, I wouldn't be doing this whole thing.  I'm doing it for myself and my own happiness.  Not to flaunt myself or get attention or anything like that.  I just want to be happy and comfortable.  And I have reached a point lately where I actually feel less comfortable going out in boy mode than I do in girl mode.  Incredibly interesting thing to experience being so new to the whole thing.  And believe me, I question it.  I say to myself "well, if the HRT has had these kind  Of amazing feminizing effects already this early on, then surely after a year or two there is going to be so many more changes, so should I just wait to start presenting as female til people start mistaking me for female even when I'm boy mode?  I think that would be great, but why suffer in the meantime?  Why not just feel happy, and confident, and not worry about whether I pass or not, and just do what makes me feel comfortable and happy.  And if I'm happy, then mission accomplished.  I know what it's like to feel so wrong in your body, yet to feel like because you know you can't "pass", you continue to live in sadness not getting to be yourself.  Of course there are bad experiences to be had.  Jerks who would have the guts to say something.  But my experience so far has been very positive.  As long as you dress appropriately and don't overdo it, and don't go out looking like a hooker or something, most people aren't even going to notice, and those that do don't matter anyway, and aren't likely that o actually say anything.  It actually gives me a little bit of a thrill feeling when I see someone do a double take or stare at me a little longer than normal.  I could choose to let that make me afraid to go out next time.  But no.  I choose to be positive and look at it as a funny part of the whole experience.

@ LaRell:  I really admire your positive attitude about your experiences, both good and bad.  I agree completely with you about dressing appropriately and not overdoing it... and perhaps drawing unwanted attention to yourself.... and if you out with a big smile on your face most folks won't look much further and if they stare at you or even make a disheartening comment... shrug it off and go on.  A big smile, displaying confidence, and self-assurance really helps with passing.  Again I like your attitude about all of this.
Wishing you the best as always,
Danielle ...  formerly Aspiringperson

Quote from: LaRell on March 11, 2018, 02:49:10 PM
I would imagine there are some who feel like you should wait to present as female til the hormones have enough time to do whatever they are going to do.   But if I was dressing for other people, I wouldn't be doing this whole thing.  I'm doing it for myself and my own happiness.  Not to flaunt myself or get attention or anything like that.  I just want to be happy and comfortable.  And I have reached a point lately where I actually feel less comfortable going out in boy mode than I do in girl mode.  Incredibly interesting thing to experience being so new to the whole thing.  And believe me, I question it.  I say to myself "well, if the HRT has had these kind  Of amazing feminizing effects already this early on, then surely after a year or two there is going to be so many more changes, so should I just wait to start presenting as female til people start mistaking me for female even when I'm boy mode?  I think that would be great, but why suffer in the meantime?  Why not just feel happy, and confident, and not worry about whether I pass or not, and just do what makes me feel comfortable and happy.  And if I'm happy, then mission accomplished.  I know what it's like to feel so wrong in your body, yet to feel like because you know you can't "pass", you continue to live in sadness not getting to be yourself.  Of course there are bad experiences to be had.  Jerks who would have the guts to say something.  But my experience so far has been very positive.  As long as you dress appropriately and don't overdo it, and don't go out looking like a hooker or something, most people aren't even going to notice, and those that do don't matter anyway, and aren't likely that o actually say anything.  It actually gives me a little bit of a thrill feeling when I see someone do a double take or stare at me a little longer than normal.  I could choose to let that make me afraid to go out next time.  But no.  I choose to be positive and look at it as a funny part of the whole experience.

I agree 110% I'm only 5 months and I go to my therapy appointment, support groups, grocery store and for walks in women's clothing now. Honestly it's mostly men that notice/pay attention and stare. Today I was crossing the steert and a guy was staring from his car as he drove by. [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but my favourite Youtube girl-crush Natalie Parrot, AKA Contrapoints, recently put down in words what I'd often thought about passing. There are three levels: (A) people look at you, speak to you, and instinctively use your preferred pronouns. (B) people can't tell that you're trans, until it's pointed out to them. (C) You can live for years in a place without anybody ever guessing you used to be a guy/girl.

When I make the effort, I feel like I achieve A. I don't often get misgendered, though when I trust to eyeliner and forego foundation, "sir" can happen. I sort of just roll with this, since I'm AMAB NB and I sort of don't care any more. I use my eyeliner and my female speech pattern, and if people take their cue from the male resonance that creeps in (gay voice!) or my height, then sod it. It only tends to happen if I'm in my trenchcoat and looking kinda androgynous. But I guess people are often confused (6'2).

As for the other two. It's complicated. Because at least in London, I honestly think people just think in terms of male/female. They've got people to see, they make a quick judgement, if someone points out "she was trans", they'll go "was she? Maybe, I didn't notice", and this is weird - this is where the height isn't that important. My instinct is that if it doesn't tip someone off immediately, then they don't notice even upon being told. 

As for (C), just lol. Never going to happen, and I guess I'm lucky with my NB identity that this hopefully won't bother me. I think with enough attitude, this won't stop me travelling the world. I think I'll always want to be trans-active on my facebook, so hiding it isn't really my scene anyway. That said, if I were binary MTF and 5'8, maybe this would be a goal of mine, and I know many people for whom it's a reality (though even among them, they choose to disclose quite often, because argh, it's annoying to hide such a big part of yourself forever. Though that's a privilege statement born of living in a reasonably liberal place.)

J xxxxxxxxxxxxx

At this stage in my life, I find that I'm pretty passable. I haven't been addressed as 'Sir' by any strangers in a while now. Of course, the people I work with are still getting it wrong from time to time (I've been my true self at work for 9 months now), but they are getting better about that. On the phone, I don't get 'sir'red as much as I used to and in fact, I was called "Ma'am" by a woman at my insurance company who, in spite of having my records right in front of her with the centerpiece being my legal, still very masculine name. She sounded so embarrassed by that slip-up that she apologized profusely amid a barrage of "Sir"s. Ironically, this was during the phone call I made to ask if GCS was covered by the plan I was on.

Out in public though, I've been getting consistently addressed as "Miss" or "Ma'am". Guys often hold doors open for me, which took a bit of getting used to. Bathroom use has thus far not been an issue. Casual banter with other ladies (in a checkout line, for example) is becoming easier, especially as I gain more confidence at the consistency of my voice.

A couple of times, I've even noticed I've been getting a long, hard stare from a guy as I walk by. The first time it happened was as I was leaving a liquor store and walking toward my car. The guy I passed on the sidewalk made no effort to conceal his gaze following me as I walked by (like guys do). I remember thinking to myself, "What the h*ll are you staring at, buddy?" Immediately afterward, it suddenly hit me as to what he was staring at and I let out a prolonged, "Ohhhh..."

Just recently, I met one of Steph's neighbors and we chatted for a few minutes. She indicated the shirt I was wearing and asked, "What's 'T-Network'? Is that some kind of computer thing?"

"No," I replied, "That's the social group through which Steph and I met."

She said, "Oh," and after a moment it was as if a lightbulb went on in her head and she gave out a surprised, drawn out "OH!"

I thought, "Holy crap, she had no idea!"

Anyway, in a roundabout, storytelling way, I guess I've answered the topic question.
Do I pass? I certainly seem to.

Quote from: SassyCassie on March 11, 2018, 09:07:48 PM
At this stage in my life, I find that I'm pretty passable. I haven't been addressed as 'Sir' by any strangers in a while now. Of course, the people I work with are still getting it wrong from time to time (I've been my true self at work for 9 months now), but they are getting better about that. On the phone, I don't get 'sir'red as much as I used to and in fact, I was called "Ma'am" by a woman at my insurance company who, in spite of having my records right in front of her with the centerpiece being my legal, still very masculine name. She sounded so embarrassed by that slip-up that she apologized profusely amid a barrage of "Sir"s. Ironically, this was during the phone call I made to ask if GCS was covered by the plan I was on.

Out in public though, I've been getting consistently addressed as "Miss" or "Ma'am". Guys often hold doors open for me, which took a bit of getting used to. Bathroom use has thus far not been an issue. Casual banter with other ladies (in a checkout line, for example) is becoming easier, especially as I gain more confidence at the consistency of my voice.

A couple of times, I've even noticed I've been getting a long, hard stare from a guy as I walk by. The first time it happened was as I was leaving a liquor store and walking toward my car. The guy I passed on the sidewalk made no effort to conceal his gaze following me as I walked by (like guys do). I remember thinking to myself, "What the h*ll are you staring at, buddy?" Immediately afterward, it suddenly hit me as to what he was staring at and I let out a prolonged, "Ohhhh..."

Just recently, I met one of Steph's neighbors and we chatted for a few minutes. She indicated the shirt I was wearing and asked, "What's 'T-Network'? Is that some kind of computer thing?"

"No," I replied, "That's the social group through which Steph and I met."

She said, "Oh," and after a moment it was as if a lightbulb went on in her head and she gave out a surprised, drawn out "OH!"

I thought, "Holy crap, she had no idea!"

Anyway, in a roundabout, storytelling way, I guess I've answered the topic question.
Do I pass? I certainly seem to.

Was he cute? Guys seem to always stare but they're never my type.. what a bummer

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I think I pass pretty damn well, but occasionally someone clocks me - im like stealth, but not trying super hard to do so.

one time someone sired me, then 20 minutes later I got a text from one of my friends asking if i had a tampon she could borrow. She doesn't know I'm trans I guess lol

Update.. I think I'm andro now

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Today I had two ups and one down and one awesome. I called in for a plumber and said it was Donna from the building, she then said I'll get someone out ASAP Don. I corrected her and that was the down. At the drive thru at lunch I got my first ma'am. It was great then in the elevator at home a woman I've known for years asked if I was Doug's sister, when she realized it was me she said my hair suited me  and I looked good. The awesome, my wife is now calling me Donna. That feels
Amazing

somme_girl, you definitely passed with your gf for her to ask if you had a tampon.

I never pass too much. Once in a great while. My voice gives me awAy

Quote from: Grocerycart on March 17, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
I never pass too much. Once in a great while. My voice gives me awAy

@ Cody aka: Grocerycart:  Once you decide to transition in earnest then you will be seeing some changes that will help you pass... don't expect fast results from HRT if you go that direction.... it can  be a slow process and requires your patience.
Wishing you well and please keep us updated.
Danielle

Today had another great moment. Out shopping for some new blouses and looking at dresses. A lady excused herself to get past me with her cart. It was a woman that lives in the building I manage and she has know me for three years. She said I looked familiar but couldn't place me. She though previous job or the hairdresser or somewhere. I couldn't stand letting her fret any longer. Said hi to her in my normal deep voice, her eyes welled up in tears and she gave me such a  huge hug. She asked my new name and had to call her daughter over to meet me as Donna. It was amazing to get a responce from someone like that. My wife thought it was sweet when I told her about it.

Even though I present as a male, People always get confused when they see me without facial hair and I've even been told that I look like pre-everything FTM. Just for your information, I was assigned male at birth. My voice makes it pretty obvious I'm a man. Funnily enough, I was sounding kinda feminine until I hit my puberty and I never got sir'ed before my puberty. I hit my puberty pretty late at 18 years. If I wear a dress and go out without speaking anything, people would think I'm cis female even thought I'm tall @ 6ft 2 inches. I think it's because of my body structure, a narrow waist with a huge hip even though I am skinny AF. What do I have to say? I feel so confused because I understand the science behind my feelings but can't really help it with my will power.

Completely passable transpeople fascinate me.  I just watched the movie Transamerica and the very first thing in that is an excerpt from one of Andrea James's voice feminization videos, she's a great example of what I'm talking about, if you didn't know her history you'd have absolutely no idea.  That takes mountains of dedication and practice to attain, though.  My hope is that with time the public will just become more and more accepting of works in progress like ourselves, well myself anyway.

I've never cared what others think of me in the first place so have a leg up on many of you I think.  When I'm shopping I don't hear people snickering at me or giving me a persistent close examination so I'm doing something right, or I just exude so much confidence the rest doesn't matter, or they're being polite.  Even little kids don't seem to take an interest in me though.  People - myself included - have better things to do.

And if they do, so what?  I've adapted my father's (RIP) sage advice when he was teaching me how to drive - assume everyone on the road is a distracted idiot.  I mean, you're not going to hurt their feelings!  I just assume anyone I meet might spot the fact that I'm a dude with boobs and ce la vie.  The voice completely gives me away, though.  Will get to it someday.  Work in progress. 

I vary rarely get misgendered these days outside of my family who struggle with the new pronouns.
I think I blend in more than pass. I'm much happier just being myself and try not to stress about it too much:D

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

I don't pass- At. All. The only times I get female pronouns is when I'm with sympathetic people and I've explicitly asked for them to be used. Out and about in the world it's 'sir' every. damn. time. I teach, and occasionally some kid will call me 'miss' but that's just because most primary teachers are female- I don't present as female at school. I think I've been gendered as female precisely once that I can remember since I came out to myself, and that person quickly corrected themselves.

I am pre-everything (well, have had laser, & grown my hair out for 18 months now- it's not great but it's better than it was) and I know I could try harder to pass- a good wig would go a long way- but I am often out with a face full of makeup & femme clothing, however, consistently, nope- still 'sir'. Being six feet tall, broad shouldered, and having a strong jaw & massive hands does get a girl misgendered. It would break my heart if I let it. But I don't. I have a general policy of not giving a sh*t.  ;D

Maybe someday, if I ever manage to get on HRT (it's a long process in the UK/NHS) and if I ever get transplants or a wig I can stand to wear. But I'm not holding my breath.

I guess I do? I get correctly gendered in person and on the phone (I don't know how the last few weeks with my sore throat and cough!). The only misgendering I know of is the occasional patron at work who knew me before, and that's 99% of the time accidental (I've had a couple malicious people though). I was at the mall a couple weeks ago, and I definitely noticed a bunch of cute guys eyeing me.  :)

I'm 6-1, but a cis girl friend of mine is only an inch shorter. Unless she wears heels!

My voice for sure gives me away all the time. People have known me here since 2003 and I can walk around the complexes completely Un-identified. I've had more maam's than sir's lately. Today i had some crazy rage road driver call me a dyke whore. Not the exact gendering I was looking for.
Carma's a bitch though as he didn't see the police car right behind him when he tried to run me over in a parking lot. Drunk and arrested and well deserved.

Quote from: Donna on March 17, 2018, 10:07:15 PM
Today had another great moment. Out shopping for some new blouses and looking at dresses. A lady excused herself to get past me with her cart. It was a woman that lives in the building I manage and she has know me for three years. She said I looked familiar but couldn't place me. She though previous job or the hairdresser or somewhere. I couldn't stand letting her fret any longer. Said hi to her in my normal deep voice, her eyes welled up in tears and she gave me such a  huge hug. She asked my new name and had to call her daughter over to meet me as Donna. It was amazing to get a responce from someone like that. My wife thought it was sweet when I told her about it.

That is great to hear.  Great stories

There's no way to say this without sounding cocky but, yes, I pass to the point where guys usually don't believe me when I tell them. I feel very blessed to be able to move through society and be viewed as my true self after being on HRT for 11 months, but have learned that self-love and validation are far more important and rewarding. :)

Quote from: Jamina on March 21, 2018, 11:55:36 AM
I don't pass- At. All. The only times I get female pronouns is when I'm with sympathetic people and I've explicitly asked for them to be used. Out and about in the world it's 'sir' every. damn. time. I teach, and occasionally some kid will call me 'miss' but that's just because most primary teachers are female- I don't present as female at school. I think I've been gendered as female precisely once that I can remember since I came out to myself, and that person quickly corrected themselves.

I am pre-everything (well, have had laser, & grown my hair out for 18 months now- it's not great but it's better than it was) and I know I could try harder to pass- a good wig would go a long way- but I am often out with a face full of makeup & femme clothing, however, consistently, nope- still 'sir'. Being six feet tall, broad shouldered, and having a strong jaw & massive hands does get a girl misgendered. It would break my heart if I let it. But I don't. I have a general policy of not giving a sh*t.  ;D

Maybe someday, if I ever manage to get on HRT (it's a long process in the UK/NHS) and if I ever get transplants or a wig I can stand to wear. But I'm not holding my breath.

I think you are amazing that you say you don't pass but go out and just say screw it :)

My voice I think would be my downfall , need to work on that x

Wow !! haven't heard that term for ages . "Pass"
I don't think about it I guess. I shared some experience in another post here on "misgendered" .
I used that term very early on in my transition, cuz I felt a need to somehow measure up (or down) to a bar of
"typical" female appearance. But then the more I rode with my Chrome Angel motorcycle circle of women, the longer I was moving forward with my transition goals...the more I realized (for me) that we come in so many shapes and sizes and flavors, I would not "gender shame" my self for trying to make someone elses picture of me what they wanted. Oh well eh ? hth and not trying to be cynical, just sharing the only thing I have to share...my experience.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOF6fFQwsdj5pgRHnu86Ew9xWDzi7B67souXj4P (https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOF6fFQwsdj5pgRHnu86Ew9xWDzi7B67souXj4P)
Once upon a time...

It's variable for me... With some people I pass 100% while some others read me immediately... it depends how attuned they are to "trans" and/or pattern recognition...

I have a big male build with biggish hands and feet and HRT never resulted in much fat redistribution for me (Started HRT in 1996, SRS 1998, FFS DR. O. 1998)

Wish things were different, but I have learned to live with things as they are, and after all these years I know there is nothing more I can do to change it.

- karen

Quote from: LittleWitchGirl96 on March 22, 2018, 02:11:45 AM
There's no way to say this without sounding cocky but, yes, I pass to the point where guys usually don't believe me when I tell them. I feel very blessed to be able to move through society and be viewed as my true self after being on HRT for 11 months, but have learned that self-love and validation are far more important and rewarding. :)

I really don't think it's that cocky.  Judging by your picture I believe you whole heartedly.  You look amazing.  Fwiw people don't really seem to believe me either when I do have to tell them and are always really surprised.

Nope but I felt like doing my makeup anyway for group. Been feeling like a major fraud lately but, hey, I'm going through puberty 2.0 over here... maybe 6 months isn't my "peak" moment but it is what it is. I wann try to embrace it more (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/43af149ad437d93491f2a7b9d28e561e.jpg)

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Quote from: Allison S on March 28, 2018, 06:20:19 PM
Nope but I felt like doing my makeup anyway for group. Been feeling like a major fraud lately but, hey, I'm going through puberty 2.0 over here... maybe 6 months isn't my "peak" moment but it is what it is. I wann try to embrace it more (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/43af149ad437d93491f2a7b9d28e561e.jpg)

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Hang in there Allison:   When you finally get to puberty 3.0 and higher you will look in a mirror and conclude that this journey is well worth the effort and pain.

Oh, and your pciture is wonderful.... feminine looking face is obvious to me...  please keep us updated.

Best wishes as always,

Hugs,
Danielle

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on March 28, 2018, 06:28:38 PM

Hang in there Allison:   When you finally get to puberty 3.0 and higher you will look in a mirror and conclude that this journey is well worth the effort and pain.

Oh, and your pciture is wonderful.... feminine looking face is obvious to me...  please keep us updated.

Best wishes as always,

Hugs,
Danielle

Thanks sister.. as cruel as testosterone was I hope estrogen can be gentle and effective. I'll gladly go under the knife today though. It's just how I feel. I wish I can shake the insecurity off, and I'm really trying.

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Quote from: Allison S on March 28, 2018, 06:20:19 PM
Nope but I felt like doing my makeup anyway for group. Been feeling like a major fraud lately but, hey, I'm going through puberty 2.0 over here... maybe 6 months isn't my "peak" moment but it is what it is. I wann try to embrace it more (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/43af149ad437d93491f2a7b9d28e561e.jpg)

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You're really cute.  You've got a great face and huge expressive eyes.  If you aren't passing yet, you can't be far off.

Quote from: amberwaves on March 28, 2018, 06:44:40 PM
You're really cute.  You've got a great face and huge expressive eyes.  If you aren't passing yet, you can't be far off.

Thanks I think the angle there helps. I'm hopeful, even though I feel frumpy in "guy mode" writing this. I just gotta wait for hrt to do it's thing and for my hair to grow.

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Quote from: Allison S on March 28, 2018, 06:20:19 PM
Nope but I felt like doing my makeup anyway for group. Been feeling like a major fraud lately but, hey, I'm going through puberty 2.0 over here... maybe 6 months isn't my "peak" moment but it is what it is. I wann try to embrace it more (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/43af149ad437d93491f2a7b9d28e561e.jpg)

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Allison - I think you look really pretty, I went out with a strikingly beautiful girl when I was 22 who looked very similar to you now in this photo, including a shortish pixie cut. You look way more feminine than anything else - keep going!

Sonja.

I honestly don't know. My electrologist tells me I pass, but we have become good friends so it is possible she is just being kind to me. I have only been misgendered once that I know of since I went full-time in mid-February of this year. I have no way of knowing what people are thinking, and asking them is out of the question. I am 6ft 1in and 162lbs. I do notice people looking at times, but maybe it is because I am tall? At least that is the explanation I am going with.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0tNyGrN.jpg&hash=cda58ef2a5a3e1085c2fb3253054caaae6241e4a) (https://imgur.com/0tNyGrN)

Quote from: Allison S on March 28, 2018, 06:20:19 PM
Nope but I felt like doing my makeup anyway for group. Been feeling like a major fraud lately but, hey, I'm going through puberty 2.0 over here... maybe 6 months isn't my "peak" moment but it is what it is. I wann try to embrace it more (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/43af149ad437d93491f2a7b9d28e561e.jpg)

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I think you look great, I think I know what you are feeling and I think it happens to all of us. I also think in a little while yes be patient to are going to look hot as the girl you are Allison

And I told her I left the Marines for someone that looked like her.  So soon we forget.

Quote from: MarieLouise1982 on March 22, 2018, 09:04:25 AM
My voice I think would be my downfall , need to work on that x

Then do what I plan to do when the time comes (as long as I have hair) and that's whisper in a very sultry way :)

Nice Avatar!

Quote from: Jessica_Rose on March 28, 2018, 07:43:56 PM
I honestly don't know. My electrologist tells me I pass, but we have become good friends so it is possible she is just being kind to me. I have only been misgendered once that I know of since I went full-time in mid-February of this year. I have no way of knowing what people are thinking, and asking them is out of the question. I am 6ft 1in and 162lbs. I do notice people looking at times, but maybe it is because I am tall? At least that is the explanation I am going with.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0tNyGrN.jpg&hash=cda58ef2a5a3e1085c2fb3253054caaae6241e4a) (https://imgur.com/0tNyGrN)

@ Jessica_Rose: "'Those Boots are Made for Walking"  Great photo and by the way your electrologist is correct... you undeniably pass in my opinion.... be confident and be self-assured as you go out and about.....  and yes, tall women are looked at more than short women like myself... I am 5' 4"... so I know these things.
Thanks for posting your new photo... very nice!
Danielle

Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on March 28, 2018, 09:25:17 PM
I think you look great, I think I know what you are feeling and I think it happens to all of us. I also think in a little while yes be patient to are going to look hot as the girl you are Allison

Yeah I took a nap again and feel a little better. I just have to keep it out of my mind and maybe avoid the mirror.

Quote from: Cassi on March 28, 2018, 09:26:40 PM
And I told her I left the Marines for someone that looked like her.  So soon we forget.

I wanna be that girl lol jking I wouldn't want anyone making a decision like that for me

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Quote from: Sonja on March 28, 2018, 07:15:59 PM
Allison - I think you look really pretty, I went out with a strikingly beautiful girl when I was 22 who looked very similar to you now in this photo, including a shortish pixie cut. You look way more feminine than anything else - keep going!

Sonja.

Thanks! Did you really? I'm shocked at your comparison though. That's nice of you. [emoji4]

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Quote from: Jessica_Rose on March 28, 2018, 07:43:56 PM
I honestly don't know. My electrologist tells me I pass, but we have become good friends so it is possible she is just being kind to me. I have only been misgendered once that I know of since I went full-time in mid-February of this year. I have no way of knowing what people are thinking, and asking them is out of the question. I am 6ft 1in and 162lbs. I do notice people looking at times, but maybe it is because I am tall? At least that is the explanation I am going with.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0tNyGrN.jpg&hash=cda58ef2a5a3e1085c2fb3253054caaae6241e4a) (https://imgur.com/0tNyGrN)

My wife is six feet tall and has a fairly deep voice. She gets misgendered on the phone all the time or before people see her and she is cisfemale. So don't feel too bad, you look like there should be no issues with you passing.

Quote from: Allison S on March 28, 2018, 06:20:19 PM
Nope but I felt like doing my makeup anyway for group. Been feeling like a major fraud lately but, hey, I'm going through puberty 2.0 over here... maybe 6 months isn't my "peak" moment but it is what it is. I wann try to embrace it more (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/43af149ad437d93491f2a7b9d28e561e.jpg)

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Wow , I think you look absolutely lovely and have no worries at all , although you are a woman so we all have our insecurities about how we look.

Hugs

Marie x

I do get mammed fairly often.  Especially from behind.  And if I don't have to speak.

But also, won't convince anyone at close range...but then again, just being as femme as I can without transitioning at this time.

In person, without talking: yes. I usually get "she" and "her", which is great.

On the phone: no. My voice is a dead giveaway, and I hate it. Still need to go through voice-therapy again, but I'm not confident that it will help much as I've had voice-therapy prior to transitioning and it did squat. At this point I mainly just want to go on voice-therapy as an excuse so I can get voice-surgery at a later stage.

Quote from: MarieLouise1982 on April 13, 2018, 01:34:47 AM
Wow , I think you look absolutely lovely and have no worries at all , although you are a woman so we all have our insecurities about how we look.

Hugs

Marie x

Thank you [emoji173] I had makeup on here so it helped a lot! [emoji4]

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I do work hard at making an attempt but I don't really 'pass' as anything except for Brandi, and besides my voice honestly I wouldn't have it any other way.  :)

At work, I don't really pass, but since I work in education I don't care.  In public it's been a couple of years since I had any problems.

Nope :(

women and men come in all sizes and shapes. I will admit i don't pass because i am over 6ft tall and built like a linebacker.I guess what i am saying is that i have seen women that don't pass was women. I am trying to be happy being trans.  :)

Quote from: Allison S on March 28, 2018, 06:20:19 PM
Nope but I felt like doing my makeup anyway for group. Been feeling like a major fraud lately but, hey, I'm going through puberty 2.0 over here... maybe 6 months isn't my "peak" moment but it is what it is. I wann try to embrace it more (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/43af149ad437d93491f2a7b9d28e561e.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Looking good Allison. I would ma'am you in an instant.

I could "mostly" pass when younger but haven't for awhile. The biggest problem is my weight. I don't put in on on the belly. I put it on high up in the torso, which is supposed to be healthier. Anyway, it makes me look "muscular" and I have wide shoulders, wings, etc. from it. It's made worse with any muscle. Anyway, my goal is to lose 30 lbs and my torso will melt. Then we'll see.

Quote from: juanita on May 12, 2018, 11:15:12 AM
women and men come in all sizes and shapes. I will admit i don't pass because i am over 6ft tall and built like a linebacker.I guess what i am saying is that i have seen women that don't pass was women. I am trying to be happy being trans.  :)

Juanita, welcome to Susan's Place! The part about being happy being transgender is the key. Passing is an abstract concept. I am neither man nor woman, am I "passing" by not "passing"?  :laugh:  It doesn't matter, I'm happy being the unicorn in the crowd.  :)

You have the right idea, keep your on the prize of happiness and you'll do fine. See you around the site.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 12, 2018, 11:42:21 AM
Juanita, welcome to Susan's Place! The part about being happy being transgender is the key. Passing is an abstract concept. I am neither man nor woman, am I "passing" by not "passing"?  :laugh:  It doesn't matter, I'm happy being the unicorn in the crowd.  :)

You have the right idea, keep your on the prize of happiness and you'll do fine. See you around the site.

Hugs, Devlyn

Love the comments Devlyn. Always so on the nail head. Love being a unicorn, lol I even have unicorn undies.

Quote from: Donna on May 12, 2018, 11:20:45 AM
Looking good Allison. I would ma'am you in an instant.

Thank you so much! Sadly, I still get sir'd at this point 7 months on hrt but you know what, I really can't let it get me down anymore.
Thanks again[emoji4]

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Well.. I get mammed and never sirred.. My voice is fine on phone & off, well in female range.  I just performed in front of a  live audience of about 40 folks, and noone was s>-bleeped-<ing, pointing fingers, laughing behind hands etc.. at me.. 

Does that qualify as 'passing'?  Then I pass :)  That being said I did have far too many people ask me why my face was red :/  Isn't being in the sun with pale skin lovely?  :angel:

Quote from: Devlyn on March 04, 2018, 01:36:01 PM
Passing only works in a world that rejects a gender spectrum.

I would hazard to guess that is a very large percentage of the world.

~Terri

Not even in my dreams for these last years. In my youth I could easily pass with only a tiny effort.

That ship has sailed. Now I am just me, and not trying to be anything.

I left the house in a rush today to go to a new job site and didn't do make up at all. Felt so uncomfortable but after all was Done today there was not a single sir and comment about it. Even my daughter didn't comment when I meet her on site.

Quote from: juanita on May 12, 2018, 11:15:12 AM
women and men come in all sizes and shapes. I will admit i don't pass because i am over 6ft tall and built like a linebacker.I guess what i am saying is that i have seen women that don't pass was women. I am trying to be happy being trans.  :)

Hi @juanita 🙋‍♀️ Welcome to Susan's Place!  I'm Jessica.
I agree with @Devlyn that the prize is being happy, keep your eye on that goal.

I see your new here, so I'll post some links that may help you get better acquainted with the site. Pay attention to the site rules they can be of great help and don't forget the link highlighted red.  It has answers to questions that are commonly asked.  Then join in on a topic you find interesting and learn and share.

Please feel free to stop by the Introductions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) Forum to tell the members about yourself!

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Well I don't know anymore...I was definitely in the no camp but of late some strange stuff has been happening...Not every head in the restaurant turns and stares at me...I never get misgendered....I may not get gendered correctly but more recently I tend to get gendered. I have been actively watching people now for a week and I draw looks as does any woman but they have all seemed to be quite fleeting. I have doors held for me and have recently even been flirted with.


I had almost given up any semblance of just blending in but I think more recently I can achieve at least that. My wife and daughters both commented that they had noticed that more recently I do not attact attention like I used too...so I guess that progress lol I even got offered a mother day drink when we went out for lunch on Sunday...I was pretty happy with that outcome...I guess what's more important for me is whom I see in the mirror and more recently I am seeing her more and more.


Do I pass or not?

EDIT: Avatar picture is a few months old

I'm not sure if I do or don't. I get upset easily so I try not to think about it 😊

I'm happy to say that I pass every day, even when talking, to such degree that my mind stopped bugging me with insecurities about it, BUT, I do get weird looks since where I live the average height for girls is 5' 2'' with a LOT of girls being way smaller, I'm 5' 7'', not to tall but here I feel like a giant.

I went shoe shopping the other day and had to cut thru the food court. Didn't notice anyone starring and no comments. Three young guys got up and walked out beside me and they never gave me a second glance. Made me happy

Id like to think i pass after 3 years.be honest guys do i pass.i want so badly to be male ever since i was little.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19488903_10213934291371833_7901388677189494041_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=faa336f0bc263a900933cf785e142f04&oe=5B87009F)

Quote from: Mynameisjohn on May 20, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
Id like to think i pass after 3 years.be honest guys do i pass.i want so badly to be male ever since i was little.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19488903_10213934291371833_7901388677189494041_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=faa336f0bc263a900933cf785e142f04&oe=5B87009F)

Yes you DO...handsome  ;)

John, I thought this was the before of a before and after MTF thread for a second until I read your post properly! Yes totally pass!

Quote from: Mynameisjohn on May 20, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
Id like to think i pass after 3 years.be honest guys do i pass.i want so badly to be male ever since i was little.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19488903_10213934291371833_7901388677189494041_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=faa336f0bc263a900933cf785e142f04&oe=5B87009F)

Hi John you totally pass and I think you are cute too ;)

Quote from: Mynameisjohn on May 20, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
Id like to think i pass after 3 years.be honest guys do i pass.i want so badly to be male ever since i was little.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19488903_10213934291371833_7901388677189494041_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=faa336f0bc263a900933cf785e142f04&oe=5B87009F)

Oh yes. You got it, dude. No worries at all.


- Stephanie

You pass at being male better than some cis guys because you're good looking lol

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

thank you so much everyone.
this is my first time asking anyone if i pass as a man. i go out and get no notice as being a born female.so im very happy.i once got chatted up in a club by a girl and didnt know what to do! lol 

love you guys/girls.thanks for the confidence boost.

-John

Quote from: Mynameisjohn on May 20, 2018, 11:44:09 AM
thank you so much everyone.
this is my first time asking anyone if i pass as a man. i go out and get no notice as being a born female.so im very happy.i once got chatted up in a club by a girl and didnt know what to do! lol 

love you guys/girls.thanks for the confidence boost.

-John

  Hi  John,

I'm Laurie, I see that you are new here. (btw you pass well I must say) So please let me say, Welcome To Susan's Place! Come on in and take a good look around.  Perhaps I can even get you to hop on over to the Introductions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) Thread and  create a post to tell us a little bit more about yourself so we can get to know you a little better and greet you properly.
  I'll add some links and information below that can help you get more out of our site. Please take time to become familiar with them especially the RED one as we are always getting questions that are answered there.  A couple things I would like to point out is the Terms of service item 1 and the link to posting ranks.
  Again welcome and please enjoy your time here.
 
Laurie
Global Moderator
Laurie@susans.org

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All I can say is if your not a guy I need new glasses. Well done

For me I feel like it all depends on my presentation. If I dress femme enough I'll pass at least on a superficial level and more if my voice holds up. But if I just rock jeans and a t-shirt without makeup I'll probably be gendered masc.

http://imgur.com/zRWPY5f
http://imgur.com/eImU0CP

Quote from: Mynameisjohn on May 20, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
Id like to think i pass after 3 years.be honest guys do i pass.i want so badly to be male ever since i was little.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19488903_10213934291371833_7901388677189494041_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=faa336f0bc263a900933cf785e142f04&oe=5B87009F)

100% pass!

Quote from: Mynameisjohn on May 20, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
Id like to think i pass after 3 years.be honest guys do i pass.i want so badly to be male ever since i was little.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19488903_10213934291371833_7901388677189494041_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=faa336f0bc263a900933cf785e142f04&oe=5B87009F)

Total hottie! 🔥 💯

I think when you decide for yourself that you wont let the term "passing" define you or your life, it becomes so much better. Be confident in yourself, being trans is nothing to be ashamed of. Of course we live in a  world where you need to confine to one gender to many people so passing is so important for some to escape physical and mental abuse.

When I first came out and lived as myself 100% of the time I was obsessed with passing and never getting clocked. But over time I grew to learn that I didn't give a damn about what people thought, I fought to damn hard to get where I am to let someones stare or comment hurt me. All that being said though I'm 21, 5'9 and have been on hormones since I was 16 and have mastered makeup and the "tricks of the trade".

I guess what I'm trying to say is be confident in yourself and live your life for you and no one but you, do what makes you feel good.

Hugs
Anja :)

Quote from: keloic098 on June 01, 2018, 10:22:23 PM
I think when you decide for yourself that you wont let the term "passing" define you or your life, it becomes so much better. Be confident in yourself, being trans is nothing to be ashamed of. Of course we live in a  world where you need to confine to one gender to many people so passing is so important for some to escape physical and mental abuse.

When I first came out and lived as myself 100% of the time I was obsessed with passing and never getting clocked. But over time I grew to learn that I didn't give a damn about what people thought, I fought to damn hard to get where I am to let someones stare or comment hurt me. All that being said though I'm 21, 5'9 and have been on hormones since I was 16 and have mastered makeup and the "tricks of the trade".

I guess what I'm trying to say is be confident in yourself and live your life for you and no one but you, do what makes you feel good.

Hugs
Anja :)

Totally agree, but this is too complicated a topic to really boil down so simply sometimes. There are factors including how you look/act and how that makes you feel, how other people react to that presentation, your own safety and wellbeing and even your livelihood sometimes. I think it's all a delicate balance, but as you say the ultimate goal is your own happiness.

Nope.  I thought I passed a couple of times, but I was mistaken.

Quote from: keloic098 on June 01, 2018, 10:22:23 PMBut over time I grew to learn that I didn't give a damn about what people thought, I fought to damn hard to get where I am to let someones stare or comment hurt me.

Human beings are social animals and we all have a need for acceptance of who we are by society at large...and that does factor into feeling good about oneself... it has to!

How we see ourselves as a lot to do with what we see as acceptance...
I can tell you in the long run one's life will be hugely different if one passes or not... and that is even if one is somewhat out.

Quote
All that being said though I'm 21, 5'9 and have been on hormones since I was 16 and have mastered makeup and the "tricks of the trade".

So I guess you pass most if not all the time... those that from experience know they pass well tend to not worry or think about it much.... and that by far is IMO the best outcome for a TS.

Not all of us can get there though

- Karen

Hmm passing.  Well I had a form fitting tank top and you could see my bra under it.. Long flowing hair that I keep brushing out of my eyes.  Cute jeans and a decent hourglass frame.

I say hi to girls and they smile at me.  Maybe they like me?  Hmm ... kidding :P  Usually if people smile at you and don't roll their eyes, whisper behind the back of their hand, cock an eyebrow.. don't read too much more into it, you passed.

IF you didn't pass then they're being incredibly nice & tolerable and wholly unheard of in the land of rednecks in Appalachia.  Don't sweat the big stuff, and just live life.

I'll most likely need FFS to totally pass as female. I'm 54 and I haven't even started hrt therapy yet, and I have many years of T damage lol. I was supposed to have started hrt last week but now I'm just waiting on my doctor to ship my hormone medications. The VA doctors are slow about everything though. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/5ce210be9f1f84637c39fbfd6a9d4a5f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/991ae1a2f2d12728a41ee64bf8f9c0ff.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Quote from: Mynameisjohn on May 20, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
Id like to think i pass after 3 years.be honest guys do i pass.i want so badly to be male ever since i was little.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/19488903_10213934291371833_7901388677189494041_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=faa336f0bc263a900933cf785e142f04&oe=5B87009F)

Not only do you Pass. But you are hot❤️😘

Quote from: Maria77 on June 13, 2018, 12:23:01 AM
Not only do you Pass. But you are hot[emoji173]️[emoji8]

I thought from your picture you were a cis Male.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I think I can start to be quite confident, that I pass most of the time.

Yesterday while visiting certain health related office, I was given two condoms, for women  :)

I first looked at them, that oh my, these are huge condoms!  ;D Second thought was, that are these somekind of new condoms for anal sex  ;D

Until I realised that they are condoms for women, not men...

Perhaps those will be useful after surgery and healing.

Quote from: Lady Skylar on June 12, 2018, 05:29:27 PM
I'll most likely need FFS to totally pass as female. I'm 54 and I haven't even started hrt therapy yet, and I have many years of T damage lol. I was supposed to have started hrt last week but now I'm just waiting on my doctor to ship my hormone medications. The VA doctors are slow about everything though. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/5ce210be9f1f84637c39fbfd6a9d4a5f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/991ae1a2f2d12728a41ee64bf8f9c0ff.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Depends on which one you go to, I think.  The Indianapolis one had me the meds same day.  They may have a support group available to you as well.  I need to start going again.  Which one are you using?


Also don't worry about FFS until HRT has done it's thing.  You may be surprised.  You can also get laser at some VA facilities for facial hair.

Quote from: Artesia on June 16, 2018, 05:43:44 PM
Depends on which one you go to, I think.  The Indianapolis one had me the meds same day.  They may have a support group available to you as well.  I need to start going again.  Which one are you using?


Also don't worry about FFS until HRT has done it's thing.  You may be surprised.  You can also get laser at some VA facilities for facial hair.

Wow, that's good to know about laser hair removal at the VA. I didn't know they would do that. I'm in Las Vegas and they only mail your prescriptions here. Very rarely do they let you pick up meds at the pharmacy.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Quote from: Lady Skylar on June 16, 2018, 06:09:15 PM
Wow, that's good to know about laser hair removal at the VA. I didn't know they would do that. I'm in Las Vegas and they only mail your prescriptions here. Very rarely do they let you pick up meds at the pharmacy.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Bummer.  I may see you later this year or early next.  That is one of the places Me and my fiancé are thinking of getting married.

I know it's a long shot, big town and all.

My primary care physician is the one who set it up for me.  The VA website says it does not do this treatment, but apparently there is a loophole that my Doctor used.  Probably helps that she is on LGBTQ spectrum somewhere.

At my age, I don't worry so mush about passing as much as I worry about having the health to continue my journey. For me, passing is just the icing on the cake. I just hope nobody worries what grandma looks like.  ;D

The whole passing thing can be a super sore subject for a lot of us.  When I started HRT and I was pretty convinced I would need AT LEAST a complete head transplant.  I was conivnced that this passing thing would most likely pass me up and I would always be misgendered...forever more.  That was several years ago now.

The first year was rough.  Noone could see me as anything but a "sir" or "dude".  Disheartening, but several of my sisters helped me to stay strong and hold to my course.  They promised things would change and I always thought, "that's sweet of you...but I know you are just being kind".

After that first year, something started to happen.  I was most certainly misgendered, but I began realizing that people were actually avoiding gendering me at all...like they could not tell, so they just left it alone.  I also started to get gendered correctly without any prompting or work on my part...so I knew something was up.  This continued on for about another 6 months and by 2nd transiversary, I was so rarely misgendered as to count it not happening.  It was a fair split of people gendering me correctly or not gendering at all.

About 6 months ago, almost all misgendering stopped, about 25% skipped gendering entirely and I was being correctly gendered 75% of the time...and I was amazed.  My routine is the same, a little eye makeup...but I still am stuck wearing a masculinizing uniform shirt and cap.  I figured it was just people being polite, but then I started to realize that these are strangers getting it right and they are not being prompted ahead of time.

HRT can do wonders and I realized that the effects just take a while.  I have gotten a fair share of "told you, patience is paying off!" from my friends who were urging perseverance.  For all of that, I still think I look like I did before, am still my own worst critic and still have plenty of self doubt to contend with...but I am doing it while being seen as the woman that I am :)

At 11 months on HRT, in my case it's very much hit and miss. If I'm wearing the right outfit, I will get gendered correctly. If I'm wearing something baggy they will misgender me even with makeup on. I don't think my face is super masculine, more like androgynous and they probably just go the safe route and think I'm male. Plus my voice doesn't help lol.

@Kaitylynn's reply above gives me hope but I don't think I'll want to wait 3 years for HRT to work. I will probably get FFS way before that.

Not yet. Hopefully soon.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on July 17, 2018, 02:18:11 PM
At 11 months on HRT, in my case it's very much hit and miss. If I'm wearing the right outfit, I will get gendered correctly. If I'm wearing something baggy they will misgender me even with makeup on. I don't think my face is super masculine, more like androgynous and they probably just go the safe route and think I'm male. Plus my voice doesn't help lol.

@kaitylynn's reply above gives me hope but I don't think I'll want to wait 3 years for HRT to work. I will probably get FFS way before that.

I am now on a plan that includes FFS, but I heeded the wisdom of some women who are out ahead of me a ways.  They all told me to give HRT its chance.  Truth be uttered, I actually did consider it seriously at a year.  My therapist agreed that I was a candidate, but I held off.  It is a choice sooner or later, either one is valid.

Have you considered your time frame?  I decided on a 5 year end plan.  This is for purposes of being able to keep my vacation topped off with my company for BA, FFS/VFS and finally GRS.

I used to think I passed. I mean, I don't think everyone realizes I'm trans, but I now realize most do. I've realize I don't pass because about a year ago I moved to a much more liberal place. It's the kind of area where people have no qualms about asking you "What are your preferred pronouns?" if they clock you. They assume every trans person is open about it. Now don't get me wrong. These people would never treat you "bad", but once someone knows, they will never be treat you like a cis woman.

<Edited by moderator - Susan's Terms of Service (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)>

I have several trans female friends and each and everyone of them in their minds eye pass. No way would it ever be proper for me to tell someone they look pretty but don't pass. I'm not the judge of that. In October 17 I swore I could never wear a dress or hair or makeup. I also swore I would never pass. I love every day as a female and "passing " is such a minor part of what is important to me. To me I pass and no one has been rude enough to tell me I don't.
My voice gives me away and I'm beyond caring as I'm living for my true self, I look better than some cis females and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner. We all can't be supermodels.
One cis friend always compliment on the fact I have nicer skin and finer arm hair than her and to me that is the ultimate pass. To be accepted as an equal by a cis woman and to call them friend and they return it. I have some amazing conversations with cis women about topics I would never have imagined and dreamed of. This is the ultimate pass
With out acceptance into a new world, that of the cis female then even if you look like a supermodel you are not there. I've had women strike up a conversation in a store just because of the way I look and present and even when they hear my voice it doesn't change the conversation at all. This again is the ultimate pass. Looks and appearance are only a small part of passing and each of us is unique in our spectrum. We need to embrace all from our short hair, no makeup different stages of transition 5 o'clock shadowed transwoman just as we need to embrace the stunningly amazing looking ladies and everyone in between without judgement. We have no right to judge others only accept them.

There´s what 3,5 to 4 billion women. All of them unique faces and bodies. Not all looking like the models in photoshopped pictures and which most seem to take, what it means to pass?

The more you live the more the whole concept just start to seem crazy. I look like one of those 3,5 to 4 billion women, unique in my own way.

No, I don´t look like the model in a photoshopped picture...I look like me...

And like Donna said, looks is just part of it. Being accepted among women, means more to me also, than to look like a photoshopped model.

Quote from: kaitylynn on July 17, 2018, 07:34:37 PM
I am now on a plan that includes FFS, but I heeded the wisdom of some women who are out ahead of me a ways.  They all told me to give HRT its chance.  Truth be uttered, I actually did consider it seriously at a year.  My therapist agreed that I was a candidate, but I held off.  It is a choice sooner or later, either one is valid.

Have you considered your time frame?  I decided on a 5 year end plan.  This is for purposes of being able to keep my vacation topped off with my company for BA, FFS/VFS and finally GRS.

I already had BA and lipo this year. If I get things my way, I will get FFS in the next 6 months (crossing my fingers). I really cannot deal with people misgendering me or staring at me trying to figure out what I am, I'm mentally strong because I mostly don't let it bother me but there's just so much a girl can take on a daily basis! I just wanna be perceived as a regular woman. SRS probably sometime next year.

Quote from: Donna on July 19, 2018, 07:24:45 AM
To be accepted as an equal by a cis woman and to call them friend and they return it. I have some amazing conversations with cis women about topics I would never have imagined and dreamed of. This is the ultimate pass

Very well said Donna.

Sonja.

I present a guy and routinely get misidentified as a girl.

Just after 9-11 with me and my wife in an  empty airport as we arrive really early,  The TSA guy greets us as two girls.  I'll walk up to an ice cream stand in T shirt and shorts and be identified as a girl.  I think my gait or walking puts me in girl category.

But, the most feminine aspect is my behavior.  Yesterday a lady backed up into me pulling her shopping cart and instead of yelling I just ducked out of the way.  I'm programmed to avoid contact.  There was an old guy who wanted to give me an unwanted hug.  But I was too quick and he never made contact!  Men behave more aggressively than I do.

At 5' 3" I'm too short.  At 108 pounds I'm too thin.  Most guys don't have a 26 inch waist or hips as wide as their shoulders.  No Adams Apple.  And giving my obviously male name just confuses people on the telephone. Can you spell that again?

At an upscale grocery store a young man working cashier got into a hilarious loop in which he couldn't decide my gender.  He'd take a hard look.  Then another and another...

I've finally gotten to where I think it best for me to just present myself as me.  Being misidentified no longer bothers me. 

That's the whole beauty of it maid Marion. You can just be you. Your description of you sounds just like my nephew. Short and tiny but he is outgoing and fun and a terrific person. If you are happy being you then don't worry about what others may think. You are the one that needs to be happy. I'm sure we all get the looks, the voice messing with people and the double looks. After a while they don't matter any more and life is great.
Have fun and be you

I present as myself, I always ride my Harley in protective armoured clothing. On Saturday I went to open night at the Liverpool Hell's Angels clubhouse. I have a deep voice & am big but guys held doors open for me & pulled chairs up for me. I'm sure they must have guessed as I met some of them last year when they stayed next door but I was accepted. Sooner be accepted than pass.  https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=dfda15f90df509f94581e5a6e25e5b59&oe=5BD1A5B2

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6778bec6b6b4e6dc454a18dacb2e46b3&oe=5BDA9AE8

Quote from: big kim on July 23, 2018, 10:54:36 AM
I present as myself, I always ride my Harley in protective armoured clothing. On Saturday I went to open night at the Liverpool Hell's Angels clubhouse. I have a deep voice & am big but guys held doors open for me & pulled chairs up for me. I'm sure they must have guessed as I met some of them last year when they stayed next door but I was accepted. Sooner be accepted than pass.  https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=dfda15f90df509f94581e5a6e25e5b59&oe=5BD1A5B2

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6778bec6b6b4e6dc454a18dacb2e46b3&oe=5BDA9AE8

You look great, especially on your Hog (I hope that's the right word, I'm not a biker myself).

From what I've seen on threads like this, I think that many trans women think that they could not possibly pass because they don't look or sound like a young, sylph-like Audrey Hepburn or such.  However, there are plenty of mature and formidable cis women who are treated with even more respect than the cuties.

Quote from: big kim on July 23, 2018, 10:54:36 AM
I present as myself, I always ride my Harley in protective armoured clothing. On Saturday I went to open night at the Liverpool Hell's Angels clubhouse. I have a deep voice & am big but guys held doors open for me & pulled chairs up for me. I'm sure they must have guessed as I met some of them last year when they stayed next door but I was accepted. Sooner be accepted than pass.  https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=dfda15f90df509f94581e5a6e25e5b59&oe=5BD1A5B2

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6778bec6b6b4e6dc454a18dacb2e46b3&oe=5BDA9AE8

Kim you look great!

Adding a small update, almost 10 months hrt...
I get sir/he from young women who are probably immigrants or non western culture. They're not rude, I get clocked all the time lol but guys have gendered me female even with minimal effort to wear makeup or do my hair. I panic internally when a random guy comes onto me while I'm alone.
I think waiting has been a very huge struggle for me... I can get hair extensions but I feel like my face is still andro. I don't want to be andro with long hair.
I guess I'm a bit uptight with my fashion choices, I don't even like any wigs I get. But I don't like my natural hair either yet because it's not long enough lol
I feel a lot of resentment that I have to go through all this. I'm not generally an entitled person, but I just feel very vulnerable right now

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From your avatar  I think you are doing  very well.... I know how you feel about wigs... I'm the same.... And though
I haven't  had any guys come onto me... I have the odd guy who seems to close and creepy
but then with my size..... and dress code..... It nullifies them
One day when I am as brave as you I will go out as me😉

Thanks Mary T & Charlie Nicki

Quote from: Allison S on July 23, 2018, 01:07:24 PM
Adding a small update, almost 10 months hrt...
I get sir/he from young women who are probably immigrants or non western culture. They're not rude, I get clocked all the time lol but guys have gendered me female even with minimal effort to wear makeup or do my hair. I panic internally when a random guy comes onto me while I'm alone.
I think waiting has been a very huge struggle for me... I can get hair extensions but I feel like my face is still andro. I don't want to be andro with long hair.
I guess I'm a bit uptight with my fashion choices, I don't even like any wigs I get. But I don't like my natural hair either yet because it's not long enough lol
I feel a lot of resentment that I have to go through all this. I'm not generally an entitled person, but I just feel very vulnerable right now

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

I love you girl!

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on July 23, 2018, 04:23:34 PM
I love you girl!

Love you too [emoji173] I gotta tell u something that just happened lol

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Allison S on July 23, 2018, 01:07:24 PM
I guess I'm a bit uptight with my fashion choices, I don't even like any wigs I get. But I don't like my natural hair either yet because it's not long enough lol
I feel a lot of resentment that I have to go through all this. I'm not generally an entitled person, but I just feel very vulnerable right now

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Allison,

I'm trying to grow my hair out but I don't like it.  The wigs I have I like pretty well but in certain situations it would be nice to not have to wear it.  I'm not fully transitioned so I still trying to balance.  I've been on HRT almost 18 months and I wish I was more androgynous without makeup.  Plus I wish my breast were a bigger.  Oh well...

Julie

Give it time girl. One never know how long any changes will take

Visually, never, but I get called ma'am petty much every time when it's by voice alone.
Actually, I need to modify that, I can't pass visually now at(hopefully) the end of my hormonal interregnum.  When I had to stop, I was just getting to the point that I could pass sometimes. (Visually)

Not 😑 but then again my heavy metal dress code  and height prob detracts from female

Well, I thought I did but having a crisis of confidence now. I live full time and have never been misgendered, even on the phone.

Then, out last night with a group a drunk friend said to someone who had never met me before "We have a really mixed group here, gays, lesbians, even one transgender" to which said stranger said "I know, Emma". Which now has me wondering if its just a case that everyone has been so accepting rather than me passing.

Em x

Quote from: emma-f on September 01, 2018, 05:30:03 PM
Well, I thought I did but having a crisis of confidence now. I live full time and have never been misgendered, even on the phone.

Then, out last night with a group a drunk friend said to someone who had never met me before "We have a really mixed group here, gays, lesbians, even one transgender" to which said stranger said "I know, Emma". Which now has me wondering if its just a case that everyone has been so accepting rather than me passing.

Em x

I would think that is was more process of elimination than a statement of identification.  The gay-dar might have been strong with that one...  In which case, probably a guess based on you not coming off as "lesbian".  I would be more concerned with a friend who knew that you didn't wish to be identified at Trans, and eluded to it in a drunken moment of word vomit.

Quote from: Harley Quinn on September 02, 2018, 11:28:29 AM
I would think that is was more process of elimination than a statement of identification.  The gay-dar might have been strong with that one...  In which case, probably a guess based on you not coming off as "lesbian".  I would be more concerned with a friend who knew that you didn't wish to be identified at Trans, and eluded to it in a drunken moment of word vomit.

Oh Harley! Such wonderful advice. I'll have to remember that. (a drunken moment of word vomit.) LMAO. Greate stuff! On pun intended.

Hugs,
Donica.

For me I'm in a weird binary situation. If I have my hair down and am using a purse I get ma'amed, if I tie it back and use my phone wallet I get sired. I tend to dress fairly girlily during the week, so everyone seems to treat me as such. I do still get more of the subtle things though. A few weeks ago I was in an airport, I had my hair in a pony tail, but a random woman sat right next to me in the waiting area. That never happened when I was a guy. So for me the answer is for the most part, but the illusion can be easily punctured.

Quote from: Harley Quinn on September 02, 2018, 11:28:29 AM
I would think that is was more process of elimination than a statement of identification.  The gay-dar might have been strong with that one...  In which case, probably a guess based on you not coming off as "lesbian".  I would be more concerned with a friend who knew that you didn't wish to be identified at Trans, and eluded to it in a drunken moment of word vomit.

@emma-f
Harleys comments above is exactly what I was thinking too, process of elimination.
also Happy Birthday Emma!!  :icon_birthday:

Hope you have a great day!!

Sonja XO

Quote from: Sonja on September 05, 2018, 07:11:12 PM
@emma-f
Harleys comments above is exactly what I was thinking too, process of elimination.
also Happy Birthday Emma!!  :icon_birthday:

Hope you have a great day!!

Sonja XO

Thank you for the birthday wishes Sonja.

And Harley I am 100% sure you are right. He's a lovely guy but such loose lips when drunk!

I pass in every aspect. What I never got is why so many trans girl use there guy voice. It usually the biggest give away. It took me a month of self teaching to be proficient at speaking just like every other girl and even then I have about 3 ranges of girl voice I can use. Good example think of my Little pony I can proficiently sound like apple Jack more masculine but still femine country girl. Flutter shy timid low and high and rainbow dash femine in nature but use a more gender neutral way of speaking. in any of these voice I pass as female no problem.

The little things also make a difference.  I shower every night and take very good care of my hands.  Even though I work nearly every day the yard, tending my garden, my nails look amazing!

I don't think with females I tend to pass at all but I noticed I've been getting male attention... I think I'm still in a stage that I want to wear short dresses. As it gets colder her I'll have to adjust... Maybe I'll grow out of it but I just think it's fun. I helps me feel good about myself and my body. Mostly because it balances my top heavy body shape. Although I could show some cleavage, I don't think I'm ready for that quite yet... I hope by next summer I will be ready.

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I only transitioned two months ago, and I had a 3 hour conference with someone last week. Apparently she had no idea I was trans, looks, voice, mannerisms. Until she saw my shoes and realised my past because I had big feet and it all then slotted together. Feel a touch insulted as my feet aren't even big for a girl of 5 foot 7 (UK size 7-8) but I'm told that was the straw that broke the camels back as it were.

Seems to me that passing is not a "one thing" thing but rather holistic. There may be a few tiny little things that add up to a giveaway. I'm sure she wouldn't normally look at someone with size 7-8 shoes and think of them as trans, but add in the other little clues, a face that has a few masculine traits being pre-FFS, a voice perhaps a touch deeper than normal, or without the correct inflection, and suddenly the alarm rings.

Obviously there are a few "one thing"s that are an automatic giveaway of gender, a beard for example, but for most other things, height, broadness, voice, feet, shape, mannerisms etc, its more part of an overall parcel. Deal with as many as you have control over and don't worry about the ones you can do nothing about.

My thoughts on it anyway

Em

Quote from: roseyfox on September 12, 2018, 05:05:07 AM
I pass in every aspect. What I never got is why so many trans girl use there guy voice. It usually the biggest give away. It took me a month of self teaching to be proficient at speaking just like every other girl and even then I have about 3 ranges of girl voice I can use. Good example think of my Little pony I can proficiently sound like apple Jack more masculine but still femine country girl. Flutter shy timid low and high and rainbow dash femine in nature but use a more gender neutral way of speaking. in any of these voice I pass as female no problem.

I can answer that. Because it's my voice, and I have no desire to change it. Not every trans girl identifies as a femme girl. It's very important that we all understand our situation is not everyone else's situation.  ;)

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: roseyfox on September 12, 2018, 05:05:07 AM
I pass in every aspect. What I never got is why so many trans girl use there guy voice. It usually the biggest give away. It took me a month of self teaching to be proficient at speaking just like every other girl and even then I have about 3 ranges of girl voice I can use. Good example think of my Little pony I can proficiently sound like apple Jack more masculine but still femine country girl. Flutter shy timid low and high and rainbow dash femine in nature but use a more gender neutral way of speaking. in any of these voice I pass as female no problem.

If this is the case, what was the point of posting your picture in the "do I pass" thread?

Attention

But anyway back to Em's musings, I definitely agree that passing is very much a multifaceted thing. Outside of things like a beard it's certainly the sum of many parts that will make or break you.

I look OK but despite many lessons I have a Lemmy voice (was a smoker for 17 years). A husky voice is considered sexy in a woman but something to laugh at with a T girl! Never worked that one out!

Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on September 12, 2018, 07:56:17 PM
If this is the case, what was the point of posting your picture in the "do I pass" thread?

Because trans girl tend to be more honest than the general public cause there not afraid to offend you for one. An just because I feel I pass does not mean others think I do. An three I was giving an updated photo in that fourm cause it been more than  a year and a half since I last asked. An the last time I asked I still looked like a dude in a skirt in the most honest way I can put it.

Though I shouldn't have to be ask why I do what I do. There is your list of reasons. Now that you have called me out for whatever your reason was I hope you are satisfied. An if you have any future comment or questions like this you should pm a person instead of asking in a public forum. Because the tone of your text at least to me comes off as agressive.

Quote from: roseyfox on September 13, 2018, 08:10:14 AM
Because trans girl tend to be more honest than the general public cause there not afraid to offend you for one.

Actually that tends not to be true... In general we all know how much it means and don't want to hurt someone...

That said. from your picture, I would have died to look like you! (thought dying would kind of defeat the purpose of passing! ;) )

Seriously even with full FFS from Dr. O, I never looked that good!

- Karen

Have not been misgendered since 10years ago.
Few issues noticed is often the mannerism, yes while most tgirls generally pass ok in looks but the behaviour often protraits too overly feminine/dramatic in some sense. That often creates second look for others which possibly gives others a chance to out one. Just follow the norm as what women behave and blend in.

I'd like to believe I pass because I haven't been misgendered by people who do not know about my past. My old friends however and those who knew me before coming out as a girl still misgenders me and it's hard to have an old friend work in the same company as you and she misgenders me (she's still struggling and I'm very patient with her) and the rest of my colleagues would get confused and would start to dig on my past though.  But overall, I already have a feminine physique and my voice is feminine too. But for my standards I still have those features that I find masculine so in a way I don't pass as seen by me, but I'm just being too uptight?  ??? Everytime I ask my friends if I look feminine enough, they had no trouble saying yes.  :D

Quote from: Brenda80 on September 19, 2018, 07:51:07 PM
Have not been misgendered since 10years ago.
Few issues noticed is often the mannerism, yes while most tgirls generally pass ok in looks but the behaviour often protraits too overly feminine/dramatic in some sense. That often creates second look for others which possibly gives others a chance to out one. Just follow the norm as what women behave and blend in.

Yes, I pass.

There's always that weird but beautiful and magical moment where people sometimes start noticing you more, and you get scared everyone is seeing you as the opposite gender somehow, but in reality, they just think you're attractive. That happened to me and I was freaked at first, like "I'm more of my real gender physically than ever. Why are they looking at me like that? I never got looks like that before when I was less passable" Then I realized when I wasn't too scared to look towards them, and got a few smiles, that it wasn't a "Wow, what gender are they?" look, it was a "Wow, who is that, they're kinda cute!" look. ^_^

I wish and hope that moment for everyone here, if it hasn't happened for you yet! (Hopefully from whatever genders and in-between you're attracted to, and not creepers :P )

Quote from: Karen_A on September 13, 2018, 06:51:06 PM
Actually that tends not to be true... In general we all know how much it means and don't want to hurt someone...

unfortunately

most good people in general won't be honest when you ask, which is why my friends assure me I totally pass but strangers' reactions are split

I think I'm probably androgynous overall and I recently cut my hair a bit above the shoulders and one of the bigger cues with it, which on the one hand feels kinda bad because now "he" shows up more often but on the other hand I can be more confident the "she"s are genuine and not, y'know, nice people realizing what's up

I got the old acid test the other day.   There was a meetup of some trans women in the area in a local restaurant.  I entered, the hostess looked at me, smiling, and said "Your group is meeting over there", pointing to an isolated area of the restaurant.

Yes, instantly clocked.  *SIGH*

Quote from: Michelle_P on November 03, 2018, 09:57:30 AM
I got the old acid test the other day.   There was a meetup of some trans women in the area in a local restaurant.  I entered, the hostess looked at me, smiling, and said "Your group is meeting over there", pointing to an isolated area of the restaurant.

Yes, instantly clocked.  *SIGH*

@Michelle_P
Dear Michelle:
I am so sorry that you had to experience that...  if there were others ahead of you or whoever made the reservation may have mentioned that it was a "trans" meeting?  ???
 
Hey girl, fighting prejudices like that is not something that is new to you...
... be strong, continue on, and always learn from mistakes made.
Hugs and more hugs,
Danielle

I have to admit I have had several doors held open for me, waited for me to leave the elevator first or go through the door first and many smiles but I have yet to be called ma'am and still get the "sir" pronoun while in a dress and full makeup. But most of the time they don't use pronouns at all, perhaps out of fear of offending me or losing a job or just being polite.

No, I do not pass well enough. I understand there will always be times when I will be misgendered but right now, I think I still look too muck like a dude in a dress. Maybe in two years?

Quote from: Donica on November 03, 2018, 12:11:38 PM
> I understand there will always be times when I will be misgendered

I'm gonna disagree ;).  Given enough time, things change and we change.  HRT, practice with voice, and various surgeries (if that's an option) can greatly help but one of the most important things can't be purchased and requires time: the way we carry ourselves and think about ourselves.  I have been surprised how much people subconsciously notice the way we perceive ourselves and that tends to override so much else. 

Funny story. On Halloween I opened the door for one group of kids and they all yelled "Trick or treat!" immediately followed by one kid saying "Are you a girl or a boy?"

I smiled, offered the bowl of candy and said "I'm not sure." The kid points at me and says "You're a boy!"

After they left Megan and I had a huge laugh on the couch.  :laugh:

I'm FTM, pre-T, and I don't pass. Once or twice every few months someone does use male pronouns though, and it really makes my day.

I seem to pass reasonably well - in that, I get gendered female in airports consistently despite doing my best to present male as my passport hasn't been updated.

Flying out of Seattle on Wednesday and through the body scanners (you know the drill) - m'am - can you step on this square, turn around, look at the screen, yellow box on the crotch.

"Do you have anything in your pockets m'am" -> "No, that will be my penis, should we try it again as male?" - Say it with a smile and it was done and dusted pretty quickly.

I'll emphasize - I was *trying* to present male :(

Quote from: sophie1904 on November 03, 2018, 04:37:01 PM
I seem to pass reasonably well - in that, I get gendered female in airports consistently despite doing my best to present male as my passport hasn't been updated.

Flying out of Seattle on Wednesday and through the body scanners (you know the drill) - m'am - can you step on this square, turn around, look at the screen, yellow box on the crotch.

"Do you have anything in your pockets m'am" -> "No, that will be my penis, should we try it again as male?" - Say it with a smile and it was done and dusted pretty quickly.

I'll emphasize - I was *trying* to present male :(

Below is what I posted earlier this year. So funny that we basically had the same experience, right down to the "that'll be my penis comment".  :D :D Made me laugh so much that someone else had the same thing!

"Anyway, here's mine.

I was flying from the UK to the Far East on Etihad. My passport is male and as I was flying via Abu Dhabi I thought I'd better go as male as I could. Clearly I failed, as I was ma'am'd all the way through, including on the plane (and I had a business class upgrade, so they were surely aware of my gender from the manifest, but still).

Anyway, I'm passing through security and with the new body scanners apparently they have a pink or blue button as to whether the person going through is male or female, so it can scan the body for anomalies. I go through and it beeps. The security guard says to me "excuse me ma'am, the scanner shows a suspicious package in your underwear" and I replied, without thinking (and in as manly a voice as I could muster) "yes, that'd be my penis". I don't think anyone has ever looked quite as unsure of what to do as the poor security guard, but anyway he just ushered me back to my hand luggage and I was on my way (without any search for the suspicious package).

And now, whenever it comes up in any conversation, my penis is now known as my "suspicious package". Always makes me chuckle when I think of it."

I guess subconsciously there is always this insecurities that plays around in our minds. Confidence comes with how much responses you get from people around you. Sometimes a single negative comment can spoilt your while day.
I do understand how conscious I am about people observations about myself generally and sometimes too much to a point where my little mind start to imagine things. Habitual reading of other people's thoughts generally is quite challenging especially if its between that narrow line between beautiful or misgendered in that sense.

Emma, love the 'suspicious package.' Well, the comment, that is!

I have no idea how well I pass. I do occasionally get, when out eating with my partner, "Do you ladies want separate checks?" I figure that is a big 'yes' on that occasion. Then there are times when, perhaps the voice is in play, and I work with someone new, and they look like a deer in the headlights. Like the deer on the road, I try not to run them over. Can't say I'm not tempted.

Hope @Laurie  is properly caring for my suspicious package. Hi Girl!

Oh Moni! I wouldn't want that thing hanging around. After all, you didn't want it hanging around either. I'm betting Laurie threw it out years ago. I hope you weren't too attached to it?

Donica.

Quote from: Donica on November 06, 2018, 01:01:55 PM
Oh Moni! I wouldn't want that thing hanging around. After all, you didn't want it hanging around either. I'm betting Laurie threw it out years ago. I hope you weren't too attached to it?

Donica.

She used to be attached to it,  but they've since separated.


Stephanie

@Donica and @Steph2.0, I love it when you talk dirty! Last I heard @Laurie was still keeping company with Clyde. Michelle might have put a stop to that though. Having that thing on the other side of the country is fine with me. Amicable separation is what I call it. Beats 'a dangling participle' any day.

Keeping with the theme of the thread, I definitely passed when I VOTED today. I hope you all pass when you VOTE today.  You should have seen the feminine way in which I filled out my BALLOT. Had an older guy smile and joke with me at the POLLING place, so I was definitely passing in my cute little ELECTORAL outfit.

Subtle enough?

Quote from: emma-f on November 04, 2018, 03:56:01 AM
Below is what I posted earlier this year. So funny that we basically had the same experience, right down to the "that'll be my penis comment".  :D :D Made me laugh so much that someone else had the same thing!

"Anyway, here's mine.

I was flying from the UK to the Far East on Etihad. My passport is male and as I was flying via Abu Dhabi I thought I'd better go as male as I could. Clearly I failed, as I was ma'am'd all the way through, including on the plane (and I had a business class upgrade, so they were surely aware of my gender from the manifest, but still).

Anyway, I'm passing through security and with the new body scanners apparently they have a pink or blue button as to whether the person going through is male or female, so it can scan the body for anomalies. I go through and it beeps. The security guard says to me "excuse me ma'am, the scanner shows a suspicious package in your underwear" and I replied, without thinking (and in as manly a voice as I could muster) "yes, that'd be my penis". I don't think anyone has ever looked quite as unsure of what to do as the poor security guard, but anyway he just ushered me back to my hand luggage and I was on my way (without any search for the suspicious package).

And now, whenever it comes up in any conversation, my penis is now known as my "suspicious package". Always makes me chuckle when I think of it."

@emma-f
OMG that is so funny!   and next time....Excuse me Madame but I suspect that you may be smuggling exotic wildlife upon your person.............

Sonja.

No ma'ams here yet but no sirs either. Just a "drop it in the box and hit the road." Just kidding. No pictures Moni? I would love to see your cute little ELECTORAL outfit.

Donica.

You ask and you shall receive Donica!

(https://i.imgur.com/E6dAnRh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aU7gSrh.jpg)

So, do I pass? As a voter? Climbing up on washer / drier for good luck with the vote. I like the picture from behind, it makes me look like I have a butt! lol
Moni

I gotta be careful to spell poll correctly.  A topic to dance around. 

Hey look, Moni's back!  Sorry about the dryer humor. 

I pass when I'm dressed as a woman. I have always been kind of feminine so that works in  my favor.

Quote from: HappyMoni on November 06, 2018, 07:06:22 PM
You ask and you shall receive Donica!

So, do I pass? As a voter? Climbing up on washer/drier for good luck with the vote. I like the picture from behind, it makes me look like I have a butt! lol
Moni

:) You pass in the photos. You may need to move the photos to the fabulous thread.

Quote from: HappyMoni on November 06, 2018, 07:06:22 PM
You ask and you shall receive Donica!

(https://i.imgur.com/E6dAnRh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aU7gSrh.jpg)

So, do I pass? As a voter? Climbing up on washer / drier for good luck with the vote. I like the picture from behind, it makes me look like I have a butt! lol
Moni

Of course you pass Moni! Very lovely. I probably shouldn't climb up on the washers/dryers at my apartments. Someone might walk in and think something odd :o.

Quote from: Kendra on November 06, 2018, 09:43:56 PM
I gotta be careful to spell poll correctly.  A topic to dance around. 

Hey look, Moni's back!  Sorry about the dryer humor.

Well, you know what my Atheist bible says @Kendra, "Let those among you who have no major appliances, cast the first stone." I could get kinky here and admit I prefer my washer. Hubba hubba! From the picture though, you can see I swing both ways. lol

@Donica, I don't think they would think you are odd for that reason! lol Maybe because of your weird theme music.

@GingerVicki I don't think I have ever thought of me as fabulous. I just want to pass as a human bean. Preferably a female human bean.

I am fairly confident in how I look most days. I have been told by not only my therapist but my best friend that they would never guess I'm not cis if they didn't know me. I'm only 5'6" and 135 and have almost zero masculine facial traits so I have that going for me.

Now where I don't pass is my voice. I was out Thursday with my friend and I was addressed properly for a while. When I opened my mouth to order, my voice cracked and everyone around us instantly went from "what a nice couple" to "she's not she". Just lived my worst nightmare about being in public there... oh well. It's part of transition. He did stand up for me and make sure the table behind us stopped the crude jokes.

I pass as long as I keep my beak shut.
If I put alot of effort in I may pass to people who aren't clued iin.
Ihave never caught anyone starting in a bad way because of how I look
And If people do clock me by my voice 90% percent of the time I think they don't care. Because vanity trump's all

People are most accepting of good looking transfemales. In my apartment, I caught many of the men and one lesbian looking through my sliding glass door. I don't really hide being trans. Hell, I just wear a shirt and let the girls loose. Not that I have much but they are obviously not male.

I guess I live around a bunch of pansexuals. It is kinda flattering but still creepy.

I pass at work.

Yesterday at lunch heading to the breakroom I saw a guy standup, notice me and act like he didn't and then swagger down to the break room and open the door from the top of the door and then act surprised when he saw me and held it open for me.  ;D I was polite and thanked him and then ate my lunch before heading back up to work.

Then on the way to the parking garage a guy in front of me saw my reflection, turned around and smiled and held the door for me again.

I tend to get this reaction fairly often at the office.

Among the ladies I join in on the chatter in the rest room and in the break room.

So yes I do pass.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 01, 2018, 10:19:26 PM
I pass at work.

Yesterday at lunch heading to the breakroom I saw a guy standup, notice me and act like he didn't and then swagger down to the break room and open the door from the top of the door and then act surprised when he saw me and held it open for me.  ;D I was polite and thanked him and then ate my lunch before heading back up to work.

Then on the way to the parking garage a guy in front of me saw my reflection, turned around and smiled and held the door for me again.

I tend to get this reaction fairly often at the office.

Among the ladies I join in on the chatter in the rest room and in the break room.

So yes I do pass.

I love then a guy holds the door for me. Kind of confirms I've killed the male look 100%. When a friend does it it's nice. When a stranger does it, I'm thrilled lol. Had a guy rush in front of me to hold the door to my therapists building downtown Chicago a few weeks ago. Definitely turned my attitude around for the day

When you reached a certain age, holding the door open does not count anymore.  They hold it even open when I am in male mode! (specifically when they see that I can park in the handicapped parking stalls!)  >:-)

Quote from: Dietlind on December 01, 2018, 10:55:56 PM
When you reached a certain age, holding the door open does not count anymore.  They hold it even open when I am in male mode! (specifically when they see that I can park in the handicapped parking stalls!)  >:-)

See I'm still pretty much a kid lol. I'm only 28. I'm engaged to the woman of my dreams but when a cute guy wants to treat me right, I soak it in lol

Quote from: Dietlind on December 01, 2018, 10:55:56 PM
When you reached a certain age, holding the door open does not count anymore.  They hold it even open when I am in male mode! (specifically when they see that I can park in the handicapped parking stalls!)  >:-)

I have never really had a male Mode and I haven't had the option to try male mode in years.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 01, 2018, 11:10:41 PM
I have never really had a male Mode and I haven't had the option to try male mode in years.

I am intersex, I can switch from one mode to the other without any dysphoria.  I am more or less gender fluid. I prefer to be a female though!  But male has advantages in certain situations.
I have no defined gender identity.  Never had it, and I think I never will have one!  Many people like I want to be addressed with they/them/theirs.  I prefer she/her.

I honestly don't know if I'm passing or not, since everyone more less treats me the same... Although people are adjusting to how they address me and whatnot. It's nothing I hold a gun to, really. I'm pretty prominent because of what I'm involved with locally. Most people know I'm trans, but it's been accepting.

This was me last night. Not sure if I passed or not, but a a lot of people seemed genuinely happy to see me doll up in a little black dress.

(https://scontent.fmnl3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/47147219_265713877438611_276775419200405504_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_eui2=AeHRpD4LKQ9Y1WYW-lq6H7uSdkmycNOZ9pJMkHa6HBmsIikRiVWnoY1nnwwiY7rXzXm22GLg_z-J-5KPVbk5nt4xVG-yQoEtHP-LhG7ELDOMLSLk507_2xWrRLyP3d0cdHo&_nc_pt=1&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl3-2.fna&oh=0b044ffe2eb64ffb321fcf02abf84a48&oe=5CAE3F36)

(https://scontent.fmnl3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/47441277_303033023886983_6572698391346675712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_eui2=AeF0y4XVKW1v4QYiW1hEcT5awOFi7CECUnDO9Lb5dgWGGSWDZKIj2VBGCPiNDLEp8khXPZYoC-cNS8iQFued5zl-zxcax3GSVdi-VHouzPwyVSKcEZativ6EWAY4Bgxvq2g&_nc_pt=1&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl3-1.fna&oh=98e86a432d46de9593b7f47fb26247cd&oe=5CB1CC2C)

I'm going to need to start waxing my facial hair  :(

I sometimes pass to my kids' friends. Children almost always read me male. On occasion someone will read me as a feminine man or a young man. But even if I have a mini-beard sprouting from my chin, I still get "miss" and "ma'am" a lot and I'm 9 months on T.  My voice is getting deeper, thankfully, but it's still in teenage boy range and I'm not very tall, so I think that's what people are seeing/hearing. I get what others are saying about being gendered correctly vs. being totally stealth. I think I'm in a weird place as someone who is AFAB because lots of folks just think I'm a super butch woman instead of an androgynous guy. When I am read as trans, people sometime think I'm AMAB and try to be helpful by telling me how lovely and feminine I am (*sweatdrop*) Hopefully that will change over time.

I passed before I ever tried. Got the crap beat out of me in high school for looking like a girl and being "gay." I was strip searched by thugs that wanted to see my vagina. I tried to be a dude, but the body and mind didn't cooperate. Now, thankfully, I can live unmolested as the female I was born to be. After a lifetime of hell, being able to live as my authentic self is an incredible gift. Once, I wanted to die. Now, I love my life. After all that bull>-bleeped-<, no apologies for passing and living the stealth life. I feel like God owes me that (kind of a joke but not really).

After 10 full time, I assume I pass. Never been told otherwise, but wouldn't care if it did happen.

Quote from: Nina on December 05, 2018, 07:25:15 AM
but wouldn't care if it did happen.

I am like you.  I am not a woman for other, it is for myself!  If I don't pass, it is their problem, not mine
Hair makes a lot of difference for passing.  When I wear my wig, I pass all the time.  Without the wig, with my rather short hair, I do not pass all the time (specifically if I slip into a male speech pattern again)!

Quote from: Beverly Anne on December 04, 2018, 10:56:06 PM
being able to live as my authentic self is an incredible gift. Once, I wanted to die. Now, I love my life. After all that bull>-bleeped-<, no apologies for passing and living the stealth life. I feel like God owes me that (kind of a joke but not really).

This is absolutely wonderful to hear!

Maid Marion

Quote from: Beverly Anne on December 04, 2018, 10:56:06 PM
I passed before I ever tried. Got the crap beat out of me in high school for looking like a girl and being "gay." I was strip searched by thugs that wanted to see my vagina. I tried to be a dude, but the body and mind didn't cooperate. Now, thankfully, I can live unmolested as the female I was born to be. After a lifetime of hell, being able to live as my authentic self is an incredible gift. Once, I wanted to die. Now, I love my life. After all that bull>-bleeped-<, no apologies for passing and living the stealth life. I feel like God owes me that (kind of a joke but not really).

Beverly Anne, first I must say you are beautiful! We have all survived many painful years, some more traumatic than others. We have earned the right to live our lives however we choose. If you can go stealth, I say more power to you! No one should ever have to apologize for living their life on their own terms. Just be true to yourself, and enjoy the gift of a second life.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Passing takes place with zero effort now. Not that I made much of an effort before.

Incidentally, interesting note: lightened my hair to see what it looked like when I was younger. People are definitely friendlier to blonde men.

In fact they won't bugger off and leave me alone. Some tourists' always trying to talk to me and ask me where the bog is. They usually wouldn't approach before.

Quote from: Kylo on December 06, 2018, 07:06:44 PM
Passing takes place with zero effort now. Not that I made much of an effort before.

Incidentally, interesting note: lightened my hair to see what it looked like when I was younger. People are definitely friendlier to blonde men.

In fact they won't bugger off and leave me alone. Some tourists' always trying to talk to me and ask me where the bog is. They usually wouldn't approach before.

I can understand. You're hot, especially in that suit. If I saw you I'd want to talk to you too.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 06, 2018, 07:12:17 PM
I can understand. You're hot, especially in that suit. If I saw you I'd want to talk to you too.

Oh that's not me, but I suppose I'm not too far off the look. I'd have to stand on a box first.

Quote from: Kylo on December 06, 2018, 07:22:33 PM
Oh that's not me, but I suppose I'm not too far off the look. I'd have to stand on a box first.

I wouldn't let your height bother you. A lot of the coolest men where short. These men are/where under five foot seven:

Michael J Fox
Robin William
Al Pacino
Dustin Hoffman
Joe Pesci
Martin Sheen
Ben Stiller
Elijah Wood
Mel Brooks
Rick Moranis
Frank Sinatra
Jack Black
Jet Li
Seth Green
Martin Short
David Spade
John Belushi
Billy Boyd
Martin Lawrence
Scott Caan

I tried one of the many facial recognition algorithm programs out there on myself today.  THeir code decided I was female, so I'll call that a pass.  Just for fun I put myself through FaceApp.  The Me => Girl pass produced an almost unchanged image, slightly lighter and a minor tweak on the hair.

So, it appears I pass to assorted little neural networks...  ;)

Today, this is the first time this has happened to me.

I am in a womens' clothing store with my mother-in-law, it is a small shop she regularly buys her clothes there, so she is on a basic small-talk level with the owner (and only person who serves you).

I am standing at the counter paying for the clothes I have picked out after trying on. Owner turns to my mother-in-law and asks "Is this your sister?"

My jaw nearly hits the floor, mother-in-law looks at me looking unsure for a moment, and then calmly says "No, this is my daughter in-law."

She had never been in that situation before and neither had I.

Made my day.

~Dee.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 06, 2018, 08:51:54 PM
I wouldn't let your height bother you. A lot of the coolest men where short. These men are/where under five foot seven:

Michael J Fox
Robin William
Al Pacino
Dustin Hoffman
Joe Pesci
Martin Sheen
Ben Stiller
Elijah Wood
Mel Brooks
Rick Moranis
Frank Sinatra
Jack Black
Jet Li
Seth Green
Martin Short
David Spade
John Belushi
Billy Boyd
Martin Lawrence
Scott Caan

You're right. Confidence/personality more than makes up for it.

Quote from: Michelle_P on December 06, 2018, 08:57:05 PM
I tried one of the many facial recognition algorithm programs out there on myself today.  THeir code decided I was female, so I'll call that a pass.  Just for fun I put myself through FaceApp.  The Me => Girl pass produced an almost unchanged image, slightly lighter and a minor tweak on the hair.

So, it appears I pass to assorted little neural networks...  ;)

When I try the face app it only gives the options for me to a guy and I'm not interested in a virtually induced dysphoria to try it. I guess it is flattering that it seems to think my face is female already.

 Luck would have it the time I was trying my hardest not to pass.  This huge guy stocking shelves said Ma'am do you need help finding anything. I said , Me?, No thanks. Then I get a  Sorry, sir.  I said, no problem. I kind of felt like I made a fool out of the guy, and I feel so bad. I mean I had a bad bread shadow going. I was wearing shorts and my legs have not been shaved in a week. The only thing girly, was I had a pony tail that I guess some how manged to fall on my left shoulder. My hair is naturally curly, pre-hrt  the ladies told me how beautiful it is in a girlish way. :embarrassed:
I'd welcome the compliment now and I love my curly hair although detangling it is a b**ch.

I talked about this in my thread but I somehow do despite my 6'2" height.  Around month 4-5 people started treating me like a woman regularly to a point where I felt comfortable in a bikini top at the waterpark and not a single person stopped to stare though several other mothers made small talk with me and a few men did make a point of chatting me up when I wasn't explicitly with my wife or young daughter. I'm not arrogant enough to think that when people see me they see a cisgender woman 100% of the time and my voice is still pretty shabby but if I can move about freely without harassment or odd looks, that's a win to me.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 06, 2018, 09:21:01 PM
When I try the face app it only gives the options for me to a guy and I'm not interested in a virtually induced dysphoria to try it. I guess it is flattering that it seems to think my face is female already.

I have the some problem, I can be any guy i ever would want to be, including one with sun glasses!
I never thought about that the thing could believe I am female and want to look like a male!

Quote from: elle's bells on December 19, 2018, 02:41:46 AMI'm not arrogant enough to think that when people see me they see a cisgender woman 100% of the time and my voice is still pretty shabby but if I can move about freely without harassment or odd looks, that's a win to me.

I am the same, and I agree. I am scared I might meet the wrong person one day or make a fool of them.

Quote from: BT04 on March 06, 2018, 11:02:27 AM
No, but I'm not trying to . . . not ready to come out just yet.

     BT *ditto* I also have never tried to pass but am "out" to whoever asks and am frequently misgendered "correctly", especially on 1st impressions. Is this *cowardice* on our part? Or are we really just stuck on gaining *acceptance*?

Group used to poise this "q" alot, which is more important?

     lol The other day really felt sorry for the bewildered look of a four-year-old boy. Before pre-school, I often take 3 1/2 yr old grand-daughter into the boys room to potty and, as we're opening closed stall, he is standing there and exclaims "Hey! This is the BOYS room!" (why are you two here?) and then he just as quickly vanished.

Definitely passed today.

Visiting the US Embassy to get my visa to move to Seattle and ma'am'd by everyone.

Then at the hotel for breakfast and checkout - exactly the same.

And no funny looks / side eyes etc on an absolutely packed train for 6 hours back to Edinburgh :)

Quote from: sophie1904 on December 20, 2018, 03:19:36 PM
Definitely passed today.

Visiting the US Embassy to get my visa to move to Seattle and ma'am'd by everyone.

Then at the hotel for breakfast and checkout - exactly the same.

And no funny looks / side eyes etc on an absolutely packed train for 6 hours back to Edinburgh :)

Hi lady! 
I think you have it all done!  Congratulations on your future time in the US.  You might run into language difficulties.  When I still lived in Europe, I had a coworker who was from Edinburgh, and our US boss could not understand him.  I had to do the translation between the two!

Quote from: sophie1904 on December 20, 2018, 03:19:36 PM
Definitely passed today.

Visiting the US Embassy to get my visa to move to Seattle and ma'am'd by everyone.

Then at the hotel for breakfast and checkout - exactly the same.

And no funny looks / side eyes etc on an absolutely packed train for 6 hours back to Edinburgh :)

That is terrific news!

Chrissy

I just returned from a 2 1/2 week trip to Europe from Florida: Philadelphia, Paris, Madrid, Málaga/Marbella Spain for FFS with FacialTeam, and return through Paris and Philadelphia. I wasn't particularly nervous, and I wasn't misgendered once for the entire trip.

Yet, perversely, when the starter capacitor went bad for my well pump today, I was freaked out by the idea of going to the hardware store to buy a new one.

Nobody else was going to do it, though, so I fixed my face up a bit (but kept on the jeans, tank,and open flannel shirt), and marched into the store.

The gentleman who led me to the shelf with the capacitors needed my help to pick out the right capacitance and voltage, and didn't seem too fazed by the fact that I knew what those are, though he did a close comparison with the original after I pointed out the right one.

When I checked out, the woman cashier and I commiserated about how men think we women don't know what we're talking about in hardware stores.

And on the way out, a huge bearded southern gentleman held the door for me.

So, despite my anxiety, yeah, I guess I pass.

Stephanie

Quote from: Steph2.0 on December 20, 2018, 05:26:02 PM
I just returned from a 2 1/2 week trip to Europe from Florida: Philadelphia, Paris, Madrid, Málaga/Marbella Spain for FFS with FacialTeam, and return through Paris and Philadelphia. I wasn't particularly nervous, and I wasn't misgendered once for the entire trip.

Yet, perversely, when the starter capacitor went bad for my well pump today, I was freaked out by the idea of going to the hardware store to buy a new one.

Nobody else was going to do it, though, so I fixed my face up a bit (but kept on the jeans, tank,and open flannel shirt), and marched into the store.

The gentleman who led me to the shelf with the capacitors needed my help to pick out the right capacitance and voltage, and didn't seem too fazed by the fact that I knew what those are, though he did a close comparison with the original after I pointed out the right one.

When I checked out, the woman cashier and I commiserated about how men think we women don't know what we're talking about in hardware stores.

And on the way out, a huge bearded southern gentleman held the door for me.

So, despite my anxiety, yeah, I guess I pass.

Stephanie

If you passed in the hardware store, you are a woman, nothing else!  I still go to these kind of stores in male mode, because as a guy I do not have to continuously proof that I know what I am talking about.
I don't know for how long I can still pull of the guy thing, but I will do it as long as I can!  Some times it pays to be gender fluid!

Quote from: Dietlind on December 20, 2018, 05:32:19 PM
If you passed in the hardware store, you are a woman, nothing else!  I still go to these kind of stores in male mode, because as a guy I do not have to continuously proof that I know what I am talking about.
I don't know for how long I can still pull of the guy thing, but I will do it as long as I can!  Some times it pays to be gender fluid!

You know I don't pass as male so now imagine me in the hardware store looking for a heat gun and a silicon insert for pvc tubes so I can bend them without the tubes collapsing for use in a custom water cooling loop.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 20, 2018, 09:35:36 PM
You know I don't pass as male so now imagine me in the hardware store looking for a heat gun and a silicon insert for pvc tubes so I can bend them without the tubes collapsing for use in a custom water cooling loop.

And that is the reason I go to auto parts stores, auto shops, and DIY stores only as a guy.  Nobody has any doubt about my knowledge of the stuff!
My girls are still small enough to be hidden under wide tops, and I can still use a semi male voice.
And if estrogen and spiro continue to do nothing to me (except a little bit of emotional changes), I might be able to pull the guy thing of for quite a while to come.  Makes life a lot easier!

I was in the hardware store not long ago in my favorite skirt to get some 12/2 wire for a project.  :) Got correctly gendered once and incorrectly gendered once. I also got some strange glares.  :-\

Lisa

Quote from: Dietlind on December 20, 2018, 09:55:35 PM
And that is the reason I go to auto parts stores, auto shops, and DIY stores only as a guy.  Nobody has any doubt about my knowledge of the stuff!
My girls are still small enough to be hidden under wide tops, and I can still use a semi male voice.
And if estrogen and spiro continue to do nothing to me (except a little bit of emotional changes), I might be able to pull the guy thing of for quite a while to come.  Makes life a lot easier!

The effects could catch up with you. One day you might wake up and male fail despite your best efforts. It's not too late to bump your head on the glass ceiling. ;D

Quote from: Lisa89125 on December 20, 2018, 09:57:27 PM
I was in the hardware store not long ago in my favorite skirt to get some 12/2 wire for a project.  :) Got correctly gendered once and incorrectly gendered once. I also got some strange glares.  :-\

Lisa

I found that it is best to wear a baseball cap with typical male type clothing if I want to be male gendered.  As long as I can hide my boobs well enough playing male should work for me pretty well.  It does not bother me to go male, I have zero dysphoria against anything male, I can switch between the genders like a ping pong ball.  I am still pretty much without any real solid gender identity.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 20, 2018, 10:04:35 PM
The effects could catch up with you. One day you might wake up and male fail despite your best efforts. It's not too late to bump your head on the glass ceiling. ;D

That would be something!  Popping the pills in like candy, nothing happens for months in a row, and than over night, bingo, I have D cup sized boobs!

Quote from: Dietlind on December 20, 2018, 10:21:24 PM
That would be something!  Popping the pills in like candy, nothing happens for months in a row, and than over night, bingo, I have D cup sized boobs!

I don't know about d cups. Unless your getting breast augmentation over night. I got a c cup and I've been told those results are not common.

Quote from: NatalieRene on December 20, 2018, 10:33:22 PM
I don't know about d cups. Unless your getting breast augmentation over night. I got a c cup and I've been told those results are not common.

But I have already B cups without any HRT!  Estrogen now either takes a break and says "I don't need to do anything, boobs are there already", or it builds up on the existing, and the result will be gigantic boobies?
  So far, I think the first scenario is happening, because my girls did not really grow any more, and I also do not have  that feeling which is described here.
I mean, I am popping pills into my system as if it is going out of style, and the only outcome is slightly changed emotions, and swollen feet instead of swollen boobs.  It could be that there was a coordination problem in my body, and the growth went to my feet instead to my bosom?

Don't know.. And, at this point, don't much care.

I live my life as any other woman would.. Don't hear many "off" comments. Don't get chased out of women's spaces. I'm not foolish enough to assume I pass, certainly not 100% of the time, I do get misgendered. But I don't really have much of a care what random people think of me - unless they get in my face and that will be a learning experience for them.

I obsessed over "passing" early in my transition, but finally gave it up as chasing a fantasy. The most valuable thing I've gotten from transition was the knowledge of who and what I am - and the ability to verbalise it. A far stronger armour for me than just appearance.

But the short version is, I'm too busy living life to give the whole concept much thought.

Fun, reading all the hardware store responses!  :D

Last year, I was getting a cartload of electrical supplies for running an electrical feed to the barn.  As the cashier checked the items, she asked, "Are you going to be doing the work yourself?"  She was most impressed when I said yes!  I counted that as a pass.

Quote from: Dietlind on December 20, 2018, 11:36:10 PM
But I have already B cups without any HRT!  Estrogen now either takes a break and says "I don't need to do anything, boobs are there already", or it builds up on the existing, and the result will be gigantic boobies?
  So far, I think the first scenario is happening, because my girls did not really grow any more, and I also do not have  that feeling which is described here.
I mean, I am popping pills into my system as if it is going out of style, and the only outcome is slightly changed emotions, and swollen feet instead of swollen boobs.  It could be that there was a coordination problem in my body, and the growth went to my feet instead to my bosom?

There is more to a woman then her boobs. Plus a 40D set of breasts will be a major strain on your back. The estrodile does more and the changes are gradual so you might not notice until you or everyone else  does. It will happen eventually.

Quote from: Dietlind on December 20, 2018, 10:18:04 PM
I found that it is best to wear a baseball cap with typical male type clothing if I want to be male gendered.  As long as I can hide my boobs well enough playing male should work for me pretty well.  It does not bother me to go male, I have zero dysphoria against anything male, I can switch between the genders like a ping pong ball.  I am still pretty much without any real solid gender identity.

This thread made me think about what it would be like to go out as a guy again, or be fluid, and that thought really creeps me out. I think I'd throw up if I was misgendered. Some Saturdays I get in a relaxed Tomboy mood and go out sans makeup, cap on, flannel shirt or sweatshirt, and my least girly jeans. The pony tail, boobs, nails and so forth can't be hidden though. I can't comprehend gender fluidity, but I appreciate that many seem happy with it. My gender was set in my mother's womb. I understand someone being non-binary somewhere on the gender spectrum, but not sliding up and down the scale on any given day. As far as being stereotyped female, I enjoy the extra attention and assistance male associates give me at the hardware store or auto repair. Getting smiles is really nice. When I was pretending to be a guy before transition, I'd have to chase down an associate for help.  ;)   

Quote from: Beverly Anne on December 22, 2018, 11:03:04 AM
This thread made me think about what it would be like to go out as a guy again, or be fluid, and that thought really creeps me out. I think I'd throw up if I was misgendered. Some Saturdays I get in a relaxed Tomboy mood and go out sans makeup, cap on, flannel shirt or sweatshirt, and my least girly jeans. The pony tail, boobs, nails and so forth can't be hidden though. I can't comprehend gender fluidity, but I appreciate that many seem happy with it. My gender was set in my mother's womb. I understand someone being non-binary somewhere on the gender spectrum, but not sliding up and down the scale on any given day. As far as being stereotyped female, I enjoy the extra attention and assistance male associates give me at the hardware store or auto repair. Getting smiles is really nice. When I was pretending to be a guy before transition, I'd have to chase down an associate for help.  ;)

I think I am that way, because I am intersex.  I never had a gender identity, I was male, because I was made into a male and told that I am a male.  When I wake up in the morning, I really don't know what i am to be the upcoming day.  I can chose to be a guy, or a girl, or switch over mid day.  I prefer to be female, because that is what my body is trying to get towards, but I still have no real identity.
I like it to be gendered right when I go as a female, because that makes me feel good, and gives me some kind of gender identity.
For some specific tasks, it is pretty handy to be able to switch into the guy mode, but I still cannot compete with "real" guys if physical things are involved, because from my muscles, etc., I am more female than male.  But that will not show up when I am dressed right and act accordingly.
Having no real identity sucks, because the feeling of belonging to a specified group is not there, it is pretty lonesome.  That is the reason that I work very hard on becoming a woman.  I finally want to belong!

I'd always assumed I didn't, today I went to a reunion of former bus & tram drivers, I went on my bike wearing riding gear so I could avoid drinking. No funny looks or remarks https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38260556_696941073990419_3649972098446655488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeEbPtctz7Lpgz9foC2T-YL5k2ZBeKAe5qyEO2hiyZbrVzgsvucQ0z1MF6QBL3kjOg41jNrOsWTrK4sUoiKhw5nn14iuaikOauWPuaPtXvr9Zg&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8a4904fc0c565f87dafca764c34a431e&oe=5CA2F718

Quote from: big kim on December 22, 2018, 03:55:41 PM
I'd always assumed I didn't, today I went to a reunion of former bus & tram drivers, I went on my bike wearing riding gear so I could avoid drinking. No funny looks or remarks https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38260556_696941073990419_3649972098446655488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeEbPtctz7Lpgz9foC2T-YL5k2ZBeKAe5qyEO2hiyZbrVzgsvucQ0z1MF6QBL3kjOg41jNrOsWTrK4sUoiKhw5nn14iuaikOauWPuaPtXvr9Zg&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8a4904fc0c565f87dafca764c34a431e&oe=5CA2F718

Looking good, like a really though broad!   >:-)

Thanks, growing old disgracefully! You look great in your profile pic

Quote from: big kim on December 22, 2018, 05:15:50 PM
Thanks, growing old disgracefully! You look great in your profile pic

Thanks, after a friendly computer took some of the wrinkles away, I was willing to post it!

What are signs we pass instead of people being respectful and knowing you are trans and going with the assumed pronoun?

Quote from: krone6 on December 26, 2018, 02:21:41 PM
What are signs we pass instead of people being respectful and knowing you are trans and going with the assumed pronoun?

One sign is having to call the cable company that you have been too lazy to go through the hassle of changing your name with. Then identifying as the dead name and half way through the conversation getting mammed on the phone.

Quote from: krone6 on December 26, 2018, 02:21:41 PM
What are signs we pass instead of people being respectful and knowing you are trans and going with the assumed pronoun?

That's an interesting question that I've wondered about myself. I think the answer may be the level of awkwardness of whoever's addressing you. And I mean that in each extreme - at one end they may be a little embarrassed, use the right pronoun out of respect, but look away. The other end might be too demonstrative, with big "way-to-go" smiles.

I think the perfect pass is the correct pronouns but no special reaction. Just another lady (or dude if FtM)...

Another indication on how well someone is passing involves how many people they have contact with on any given day. Not everyone will be respectful, so if someone isn't passing that well, sooner or later they'll run across a person who will have a negative reaction. If nobody at all says anything bad (or looks askance, etc.), it's a good bet they're doing very well.

Just my random thoughts based on recent experience.

Stephanie

Quote from: krone6 on December 26, 2018, 02:21:41 PM
What are signs we pass instead of people being respectful and knowing you are trans and going with the assumed pronoun?

Does it really matter as long as the person you are interacting with treats you with positive respect and acceptance?

Quote from: Anne Blake on December 27, 2018, 04:07:00 PM
Does it really matter as long as the person you are interacting with treats you with positive respect and acceptance?

It's a good question actually!

It shouldn't is the short answer.

But it does, is the truthful answer.

For those who don't know about me their reactions and interactions with me are totally different than those who do know or have for some reason clocked me or someone else has told em, I find this happens quite often.
I think people think they are sharper if they already know and can tell others.
Or I have a friend or two out me thinking they are gauging the crowd for me on my behalf. Sucks!

I do not really pass because of my voice for sure.

What is really strange is when I am out as male, I am getting more strange looks as of late.
I do not stop and ask them about this, but I wonder if they think I am a "pretty boy" or a metrosexual or something like that.  This is when I am not out with makeup, a purse, or female clothes, this is when I am out presenting as male. 

Perhaps it is my hair that is causing the issue.  I had my first female hairstyle done a couple of months ago.  But, I think I can make it look like a man's cut by brushing it, at least in the front.  As it grows out more, it will be increasingly harder to do that though, unless I keep it trimmed to where it is at now.

Chrissy

The outing me or telling others of me is not a good thing for me, even if they are intending good. What I was referring to is interacting with others, some that know me from before and some that have never met me, and my not being able to tell the difference in responses......just open love and acceptance. And happily, that is the way most of my life is at this point.

Tia Anne

Quote from: Anne Blake on December 27, 2018, 04:23:23 PM
The outing me or telling others of me is not a good thing for me, even if they are intending good.

Oof!  Yeah.

When I do my Trans/Queer 101 talks I start off introducing myself, including that I am a transgender person.  I then explain a few things.

"I'm an older woman, attracted to persons with a femme presentation, and I got this way through my history of being a transgender person.  My telling you these things is called 'disclosure', and my disclosing that I am a transgender person to you indicates that I have some trust in you to keep this personal information private, and not use it in ways that might harm me."  I then explain the harm that can come to someone when others in positions of relative power, landlords, employers, and so on, learn that someone is trans.

I've found that I currently pass well with most folks, and many folks I interact socially with are just fine with me until they learn that I am trans.. That's generally when the misgendering, exclusion, and such begins.

*SIGH*  And this behavior is what makes me want to disappear into the woodwork.  At the same time, i realize that the old tradition of woodworking would really just be allowing me to expand my circle of friends to include these trans-exclusionary jerks.  That is a high price to pay to add some jerks as friends, and perhaps I am better off with no secrets and fewer, but true friends.

Pardon my brain droppings.  It's just a quiet afternoon and I have time to think for once.

Michelle,

You bring up an excellent conjecture:  "...perhaps I am better off with no secrets and fewer, but true friends."

So, you or we can have the situation where we generally pass and are accepted until someone outs us, then most of these same people we socially interact with are misgendering us and the relationships go south.

Or we can preempt all of this outing by just being upfront and tell everyone we are trans-women. Exactly when to out yourself seems problematic, it could be awkward.  That does not seem the way to go.

It seems to me that if one passes well and is accepted as a woman, just blend in.  Tell people at a trans related seminar or workshop that you are trans, or by them attending, they may already know that.  Tell your physician, someone you have an intimate friendship with, tell family, people that knew you from your deadname years that you want for them to know, but for everyone else, do not mention it!  Maybe tell them if they ask you about it.  If they learn of our trans-woman status in any way and are not accepting, so be it!

So perhaps you, or most of us, would be better off with fewer, but true friends.
After all, how many of us have lots and lots of real, true friends any way?

Good thoughts Michelle.  I really enjoy your posts.

Chrissy

I do not tend to carry my being trans like a banner around with me.  My "real" friends know, and are very supportive ab out it.  But others have no need to know.  I am presently still quite often misgendered, because of the way my voice is used by me, and, I think, because of my rather short hair that is not cut in a typical feminine cut.  I hope that by this time next month, it is long enough to get a female hair do.
But to be honest, I really don't care if strangers mis-gender me or not, it is not my problem, because I know who I am.  If somebody makes inappropriate remarks, I tackle this person (verbally) right down, and make the person feel like an idiot.  If they leave me alone, I leave them alone!
Over the years I have learned to very carefully select my friends.  Early on, when I came to the US, I was called all kind of NAZI names.  That did hurt way more than having to deal with homophobic people, because my mother had to suffer a lot under the NAZI's.  It could be that this hardened my personality enough that misgendering will not bother me much?

I pass most days, then others I can not get my voice cracks and drops a bit just enough... That is not often but it happens. The most crap I have gotten is on medical visits, starts off fine, then they read chart notes <Male to Female> and then the he's and him start. I work as a residential real estate appraiser and have only been called he a few times in the past year, the prior year it was constant. Two years on HRT has helped a lot. I look a bit younger than my chronological age... The image I use for a profile is about a month old.


On a side note since having BA getting a lot more looks from men and they have been much friendlier. I don't like not being able to wear a bra for 3 months, I stand 5'11" I run 42 E currently, 34 inch waist and 43 inch hips. The weight keeps dropping off so hoping for a 30" waist by spring. Voice modification with Dr. Thomas in Portland early March, fighting with insurance for it now, I have worked myself to death to save for it though. I hope in the end just to blend in for the most part, but that changes daily as political ambitions rear their ugly little head :)

Quote from: Anne Blake on December 27, 2018, 04:07:00 PM
Does it really matter as long as the person you are interacting with treats you with positive respect and acceptance?

Does it really matter?

So, I just got back from working 15 days in Buenos Aires, and in those 15 days I was not misgendered one single time by ANY Argentinian. Not waiters, not hotel staff, not taxis, and not customers. Madam/she/her 100% of the time. Even in the bathrooms, other women were chatty and pleasant. The entire population was absolutely spectacular regarding my gender and treating me exactly like any other woman there.

I didn't think I passed that well, and so THAT is what made me wonder if I was actually passing or if the entire Argentine nation is positive and respectful to transgender people.

Actually, I still don't know which option explains my experience. But I am very much looking forward to going back in January, and knowing that I will have fewer issues there than I would if I traveled to Texas...

Kate

I often wonder - did they read me ? I wish I could look into the minds of people I've interacted with, especially if we've exchanged more than a couple of words. But as long as shop staff and taxi drivers keep calling me 'love', I'm happy. Italian waiter even called me 'senora' the other day !

Quote from: Anne Blake on December 27, 2018, 04:07:00 PM
Does it really matter as long as the person you are interacting with treats you with positive respect and acceptance?

No, because I hate being trans so I'd rather be seen as a woman who happens to be trans than a trans woman

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Quote from: krone6 on December 28, 2018, 10:49:23 PM
No, because I hate being trans so I'd rather be seen as a woman who happens to be trans than a trans woman

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I understand. I have been very private about it too even if genetically I have aberrations. I consider it a birth defect that was fixed as much as possible. I don't even bring it up with people that do not need to know.

Quote from: NatalieRene on January 01, 2019, 03:03:20 PM
I understand. I have been very private about it too even if genetically I have aberrations. I consider it a birth defect that was fixed as much as possible. I don't even bring it up with people that do not need to know.

That makes perfect sense Natalie.

Chrissy

Quote from: Rachel_Christina on December 27, 2018, 04:13:31 PM
It's a good question actually!

It shouldn't is the short answer.

But it does, is the truthful answer.

For those who don't know about me their reactions and interactions with me are totally different than those who do know or have for some reason clocked me or someone else has told em, I find this happens quite often.
I think people think they are sharper if they already know and can tell others.
Or I have a friend or two out me thinking they are gauging the crowd for me on my behalf. Sucks!

I'm with you, girl. I much prefer my stealth life as a woman with my new friends since transition, than my life as a trans woman with people who knew me before transition. Having an old friend out me to a new friend is an awful experience. And, have any of you ever experienced that person you thought was a true friend, only to realize you were their token trans friend to make them feel cool? I have. That's a kick in the head. I'm treated much better as a woman than a trans woman, that's for sure, but that might just be me.

Quote from: Beverly Anne on January 02, 2019, 10:26:55 AM
I'm with you, girl. I much prefer my stealth life as a woman with my new friends since transition, than my life as a trans woman with people who knew me before transition. Having an old friend out me to a new friend is an awful experience. And, have any of you ever experienced that person you thought was a true friend, only to realize you were their token trans friend to make them feel cool? I have. That's a kick in the head. I'm treated much better as a woman than a trans woman, that's for sure, but that might just be me.

I don't tell anybody either, it is nobodies business but mine!  However, my 3 best cis female friends are almost like the 3 musketeers for me.  They get almost furious if anybody doubts me being a woman.  Sometimes I have the feeling that they want m to experience concerning "growing" up to become a woman, what they feel they missed out on for whatever reason!

Quote from: Beverly Anne on January 02, 2019, 10:26:55 AM
I'm with you, girl. I much prefer my stealth life as a woman with my new friends since transition, than my life as a trans woman with people who knew me before transition. Having an old friend out me to a new friend is an awful experience. And, have any of you ever experienced that person you thought was a true friend, only to realize you were their token trans friend to make them feel cool? I have. That's a kick in the head. I'm treated much better as a woman than a trans woman, that's for sure, but that might just be me.

Oh yeah the token trans friend and getting outted is the worst.

It still ticks me off that my sister and my mom outted me to my sisters in laws. Why did they need to know? This is the same sister that had my little sister in the bridal party but excluded me. Next year for Christmas I am looking forward to looking better then her for the dinner party and church. >:-)

Quote from: NatalieRene on January 02, 2019, 10:52:35 AM
Oh yeah the token trans friend and getting outted is the worst.

It still ticks me off that my sister and my mom outted me to my sisters in laws. Why did they need to know? This is the same sister that had my little sister in the bridal party but excluded me. Next year for Christmas I am looking forward to looking better then her for the dinner party and church. >:-)

You are a little nasty and vicious one, aren't you.  But payback time feels great, I can tell you from experience!  ;D  :angel:

Quote from: NatalieRene on January 02, 2019, 10:52:35 AM
Oh yeah the token trans friend and getting outted is the worst.

Ouch!  Yeah.

I had an acquaintance who invited me to lunch.  When I arrived there was another woman present, and I was introduced as "My transgender friend, Michelle."

Lovely.

Disclosure without my permission, and dropped into the category of transgender friend... how very special!  I walked out, and later sent an e-mail to detail why this was incredibly inappropriate, tone-deaf behavior.

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 02, 2019, 12:51:35 PM
Ouch!  Yeah.

I had an acquaintance who invited me to lunch.  When I arrived there was another woman present, and I was introduced as "My transgender friend, Michelle."

Lovely.

Disclosure without my permission, and dropped into the category of transgender friend... how very special!  I walked out, and later sent an e-mail to detail why this was incredibly inappropriate, tone-deaf behavior.

Well, bless her heart. [emoji849][emoji35]

My life has been blessed to live in a mix of communities. Much of my community is from experienced queer groups. I love the dialogs across the alphabet mix, so much to learn from each other. Yet they are affirming and committed to living in community. For the most part, all are caring enough to not just out you without you permission. The only ones that do this sort of thing in my world are the cis allies that are new to the experience and require some sensitivity training. Painful but usually worth it.

Tia Anne

"Passing" is a tricky one because it means different things to different people.  When out and about I feel feminine and do my best to look as female as possible, but I know I have a "masculine" face that cannot be softened enough to pass as a genetic female. However, I pass in the sense that I feel and look feminine (or at least my best efforts at such) so I'm comfortable moving about in public.  This has taken years to achieve as I have always had concerns about being "read" in public and someone making a scene.  With maturity comes a "don't give a darn" attitude!  Once i move to the next level here I can post some photos to show the evolution of Debra ;D ;D

Was out to eat at a nice beach side restaurant tonight, to watch the sun set over the Gulf.  Both, the host and the waitress said ladies to us without hesitation, and served my foot with a excuse me  ma'm, to reach around me!

I think I passed tonight without any problem!

Quote from: Dietlind on January 03, 2019, 10:56:59 PM
Was out to eat at a nice beach side restaurant tonight, to watch the sun set over the Gulf.  Both, the host and the waitress said ladies to us without hesitation, and served my foot with a excuse me  ma'm, to reach around me!

I think I passed tonight without any problem!

Donner party, your table is ready!  :laugh:

The sharp knives are out!

Quote from: Devlyn on January 04, 2019, 01:33:50 AM
Donner party, your table is ready!  :laugh:

Cool time!

Eat until the guests are gone!

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on January 04, 2019, 08:31:37 AM
Cool time!

Eat until the guests are gone!

:laugh:

Quote from: Beverly Anne on January 02, 2019, 10:26:55 AM
And, have any of you ever experienced that person you thought was a true friend, only to realize you were their token trans friend to make them feel cool? I have. That's a kick in the head.

This!  I never thought about it till it happened to me.  At my last position, I became "friends" with two of my supervisors that reported to me.  I saw myself as an older mentor or coach to help them move towards manager positions.  We seemed to really all click.  I'd occasionally go out with my team after work to socialize and to seem "human".  On one particular occasion, it was just the 3 of us and two of their girlfriends joined us.  When the one introduced me, she said, "this is my transgender friend...and boss Briana."  One of her girlfriends does the "OMG this is the >-bleeped-< at work you're always talking about??."  Just like I wasn't there.  Then she turns to me and says, "sorry...I'm not sure what to call you guys."  Needless to say, I didn't hang around. 

And neither did the two that worked for me.  <wink>

Quote from: Devlyn on January 04, 2019, 01:33:50 AM
Donner party, your table is ready!  :laugh:

Yup!  Some of them were a little tough, but the knifes were pretty sharp, so it worked!  >:-)

Quote from: Dietlind on January 04, 2019, 09:07:40 AM
Yup!  Some of them were a little tough, but the knifes were pretty sharp, so it worked!  >:-)

Oh, tough guy, eh? Well, a little heat'll soften you up good, see?


Stephanie

Quote from: BrianaJ on January 04, 2019, 09:06:22 AM
This!  I never thought about it till it happened to me.  At my last position, I became "friends" with two of my supervisors that reported to me.  I saw myself as an older mentor or coach to help them move towards manager positions.  We seemed to really all click.  I'd occasionally go out with my team after work to socialize and to seem "human".  On one particular occasion, it was just the 3 of us and two of their girlfriends joined us.  When the one introduced me, she said, "this is my transgender friend...and boss Briana."  One of her girlfriends does the "OMG this is the >-bleeped-< at work you're always talking about??."  Just like I wasn't there.  Then she turns to me and says, "sorry...I'm not sure what to call you guys."  Needless to say, I didn't hang around. 

And neither did the two that worked for me.  <wink>

Oh, wow! That was brutal. Worse than my experience even. People can be such idiots.

Quote from: BrianaJ on January 04, 2019, 09:06:22 AM
This!  I never thought about it till it happened to me.  At my last position, I became "friends" with two of my supervisors that reported to me.  I saw myself as an older mentor or coach to help them move towards manager positions.  We seemed to really all click.  I'd occasionally go out with my team after work to socialize and to seem "human".  On one particular occasion, it was just the 3 of us and two of their girlfriends joined us.  When the one introduced me, she said, "this is my transgender friend...and boss Briana."  One of her girlfriends does the "OMG this is the >-bleeped-< at work you're always talking about??."  Just like I wasn't there.  Then she turns to me and says, "sorry...I'm not sure what to call you guys."  Needless to say, I didn't hang around. 

And neither did the two that worked for me.  <wink>

I am sorry that you had to go through this, I am sorry that we all must go through this! But the alternative is no better. We could harden  our hearts to protect ourselves from such insensitive fools but that would isolate our lives from so much of life that we seek. For me, at least, it would be another form of closet, one that would have too much bitterness.  I won't  hide from the fools but it makes me aware that I appreciate time with our queer community so much more than with many of the cis  world that should know better.

Tia Anne

Quote from: Anne Blake on January 05, 2019, 09:56:12 AM
but it makes me aware that I appreciate time with our queer community so much more than with many of the cis  world that should know better.

Tia Anne

you are lucky that you have access to such a community.  Many of us are "lone fighters" in a sea of homophobics (like I was informed yesterday that no urologist in SW Florida would do an orchiectomy for transgender reasons only), and have no groups we can hang out with.  I am lucky that my therapist has organized a group of trans people to meet at least once a month (today is a meeting, and I am looking forward to it), but one cannot call that hanging out with a group.

I am lucky, all my friends are cis, and everybody is really supporting me very well, and a close circle tries to understand what being trans means.

Quote from: Priya on March 04, 2018, 01:10:54 PM
. . . curious to hear your passing stories

Yes Not?

Quote from: Dietlind on January 05, 2019, 10:48:06 AM
you are lucky that you have access to such a community.  Many of us are "lone fighters" in a sea of homophobics (like I was informed yesterday that no urologist in SW Florida would do an orchiectomy for transgender reasons only), and have no groups we can hang out with.  I am lucky that my therapist has organized a group of trans people to meet at least once a month (today is a meeting, and I am looking forward to it), but one cannot call that hanging out with a group.

I am lucky, all my friends are cis, and everybody is really supporting me very well, and a close circle tries to understand what being trans means.

Linde,

By attending the transfeminine group today, you may meet people whom you may wish to socialize with on other days.  Good luck.

Chrissy

Quote from: KatieP on December 28, 2018, 12:52:44 AM
Does it really matter?

So, I just got back from working 15 days in Buenos Aires, and in those 15 days I was not misgendered one single time by ANY Argentinian. Not waiters, not hotel staff, not taxis, and not customers. Madam/she/her 100% of the time. Even in the bathrooms, other women were chatty and pleasant. The entire population was absolutely spectacular regarding my gender and treating me exactly like any other woman there.

I didn't think I passed that well, and so THAT is what made me wonder if I was actually passing or if the entire Argentine nation is positive and respectful to transgender people.

Actually, I still don't know which option explains my experience. But I am very much looking forward to going back in January, and knowing that I will have fewer issues there than I would if I traveled to Texas...

Kate

Hi Kate  - I've had the same experience in Buenos Aires when I travel there - the people across the board seem very respectful and understanding.  This attitude may come from an effort in recent years to overcome the "machismo" stigma and the fact that women's and LBGTQ rights have been a priority in recent years.  It's a very different environment here in Kentucky!!
Deb

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on January 05, 2019, 11:26:08 AM

Linde,

By attending the transfeminine group today, you may meet people whom you may wish to socialize with on other days.  Good luck.

Chrissy

We all live very far away from each other, and none of the members seem to be socializing wit each other.

Yes when I'm out and about and no one knows me and I don't need to say much. I went shopping for shirts today and yesterday and it was sir all the way loud and clear and no hesitation. It feels so good and natural.
I have mostly passed when I'm commuting for a long time.
Going to the ladies was always a bit difficult, they would say "this is the ladies " and things like that or even come in see me and turn around and leave again.
So now going to the men's is a relief.
None has so much as paused. Except the first week at work after I was out but they got quickly used to it and stand next to me at the urinals.
But at public toilets there is not so much as a second glance.

I want to say one thing though guys and girls, older gent that I am, with some experience of being ostracised, ridiculed, and excluded, for large periods of my life.

People have eyes and eyes are always looking at something while they are avake and active.
People staring or looking with or without a funny look on their faces doesn't mean a thing.
For the most part we are all so preoccupied with our self's that we go through life looking askew at all kinds of people without realising or even actually noticing it. Think back through your day or the last time you walked down the street and describe to yourself the people you saw.
You can't can you? Maybe one or two the stood out but all the rest is forgotten.

My point is that often people stare or look and they may have a look on their face but they actually didn't really see you or notice it fully. If asked 5-10min later they wouldn't recall you.

I needed to learn that a long time ago because I was so distressed from bullying that I thought that everyone was watching me, which of course they weren't.

We are so preoccupied with dressing as our gender and passing that we constantly read that into every gaze but that doesn't mean that those looking even noticed us.

Don't read into the minds of others just because they glanced your way, you don't know what they are thinking.
It might be "I need to buy bread and milk on the way home and take gas, is that lady wearing a wig? I wonder if my son remebered his homework this morning, ohhh bother lunch is over."

Quote from: skipulus on January 09, 2019, 05:10:31 PM

Don't read into the minds of others just because they glanced your way, you don't know what they are thinking.
It might be "I need to buy bread and milk on the way home and take gas, is that lady wearing a wig? I wonder if my son remebered his homework this morning, ohhh bother lunch is over."

I don't believe that men even think that deep, judging by my thinking, having been one for many decades.  It was more important to listen to some sporty exhaust note of some car and wondering what it was, or looking a a pretty female , and dreaming, or thinking about the upcoming poker night, etc. While looking with empty eye around in the world!

I do like this thread. I have actually transitioned twice.

The first time some 30 years ago I transitioned in the United Kingdom and lived full time for over 2 years. This was the time when "The News of the World" were doing all those expose's and generally the UK was not too friendly a place.  I was under the care of the GIC and on a pretty heavy HRT program and working full time for one of the UK banks as a secretary in Milton Keynes.

What made me transition was being made redundant, and by encouragement from two close Cis females and recommendations from the GIC. By then I had received a lot of Electrolysis and Beauty treatments and during this time I had my Colours done. This had an enormous effect because I was then only using cosmetics (nail polish, lipstick, blusher etc matched to my skin tones) and also wearing clothes again that matched my colours - Autumn.

However after about 2.25 years, I got outed at work and lost my job. It was funny it was a combination of things that gave me away. Not my voice (as  I have always had a good singing range), nor An Adams Apple (I have never had one, not hands or feet (mine are very small), but it was a combination of  little things. For instance one girl told me one thing that gave me away was the way I ate potato crisps. She said girls take one or two crisps at a time - she said I ate them like a man. She said it was my arm gestures, that i didn't use my wrist movements more. The big thing though that really outed me though was from an evening with my work group at a night club when I ended up dancing too close  to a young male colleague who had wandering hands syndrome. After a couple of complaints from older women about my using the ladies toilets, 2 weeks later I lost my job for not disclosing on my application form that I was trans. I remember saying to the Bank - would you have offered me the job if I did disclose it. They said No.

Anyway 30 years on, after all that effort,  the changes in society and  much more acceptance, I think now I pass pretty well and always aim to blend in and rarely get read, but just last night I was out with a group of Lesbian friends and I was introduced to a new member of the group who then asked if I was Trans. So despite all the effort and practice - some things give me away.

Mind you some 4 years ago I was in Adelaide out for dinner with Cindy and I went to the Ladies and suddenly saw this beautiful woman in the mirror and was shocked to suddenly realise that I did look great - I was finally over the male fail barrier  (Cindy of course told me of course you are!).

Then just last year I was in Debenhams in Exeter in Devon and going up the escalator to the first floor (heading to the ladies lingerie section (as they do really nice bras and things) and behind me a woman said excuse me madam, but I just wanted to say that I think you look absolutely wonderful in that gorgeous dress  with your matching shoes and handbag. It would be so nice if more women took care on their overall presentation. She turned out to be the floor manager.  I was wearing a summers dress (just above the knee), bare arms, pink matching medium heels, pink handbag

So  I must be doing something right!

JudithLynn

I have had a very easy time with passing. I'm small framed, pretty and curvaceous.
All these things have really helped.
My voice never dropped either and I'm only 5'5'' . Unless I decide to tell people, they assume I'm cis.

Sometimes this has advantages and sometimes it has disadvantages.
I have lots of cishet men hitting on me when I go out for a drink by myself. I prefer not telling them but I have no choice because it could get me killed if I took him home without telling.

Luv
Debby

I pass completely. I'm small, 5'4 and my voice is well within the female range. Actually I think people are too busy looking at my white skin, white hair and weird purple/pink eyes (I stopped wearing my chocolate brown tinted contacts)to ever consider if I might be trans. Lol

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on July 17, 2018, 02:18:11 PM
At 11 months on HRT, in my case it's very much hit and miss. If I'm wearing the right outfit, I will get gendered correctly. If I'm wearing something baggy they will misgender me even with makeup on. I don't think my face is super masculine, more like androgynous and they probably just go the safe route and think I'm male. Plus my voice doesn't help lol.

@Kaitylynn's reply above gives me hope but I don't think I'll want to wait 3 years for HRT to work. I will probably get FFS way before that.

This has significantly changed for me. I really can't pinpoint what makes the difference now...Probably a combination of things...A bit of surgery since then, longer hair and more time on hormones, now I get gendered correctly around 95% of the time? The other 5% being sometimes when I'm on the phone. Even more shocking is that it's getting more frequent that I meet guys who have no idea I'm trans...That's still a shocker for me, in my mind I think I'm super clockable but I guess not.

I have now understood what people mean, that passing isn´t just how you look and it´s not a black&white question, you are not just passable or non-passable.

What I mean, that I get treated as a female everywhere. The term passing isn´t relevant anymore. As I get treated as a female and thus it doesn´t matter whether or not I´m passable as a cis woman.

Quote from: Mendi on April 29, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
I have now understood what people mean, that passing isn´t just how you look and it´s not a black&white question, you are not just passable or non-passable.

What I mean, that I get treated as a female everywhere. The term passing isn´t relevant anymore. As I get treated as a female and thus it doesn´t matter whether or not I´m passable as a cis woman.

Reminds me of a discussion I had recently with my therapist. I'd made a similar observation, and she posed the question, "Does it matter whether others [strangers] see you as cis or trans as long as they see you as a woman?"

Does it matter?

--AshleyP

I'm a long way from passing and running out of years. I doubt I ever will get an acceptable shoulder to hip ratio. My dysphoria requires me to transition, but I'm not planning to ever go full time. (though I would love to) Funnily enough, even presenting as a big shouldered male, anybody who knows me accepts that I am female.

Allie

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47740589241_f288524bcb.jpg)

Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 30, 2019, 05:44:57 AM
I'm a long way from passing and running out of years. I doubt I ever will get an acceptable shoulder to hip ratio. My dysphoria requires me to transition, but I'm not planning to ever go full time. (though I would love to) Funnily enough, even presenting as a big shouldered male, anybody who knows me accepts that I am female.

Allie

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47740589241_f288524bcb.jpg)

There it comes again, the myth of shoulder to hip ratio.  Go out there and look around, there are many cis women who have wider shoulders than hips.  I hardly see women with this mystical ration of an hour glass!

Why do you think you need to have it, to pass?
I was lucky, and my hips are slightly wider than my shoulders, but I was made fun of because of this for many years of my life!  And that was no fun either!

Quote from: Dietlind on April 30, 2019, 07:38:09 AM
There it comes again, the myth of shoulder to hip ratio.  Go out there and look around, there are many cis women who have wider shoulders than hips.  I hardly see women with this mystical ration of an hour glass!

Why do you think you need to have it, to pass?
I was lucky, and my hips are slightly wider than my shoulders, but I was made fun of because of this for many years of my life!  And that was no fun either!

Have to disagree. Any woman built like a bodybuilder is going to be looked at a second time, and then the larger hands and feet will be noticed. Sure, petite women can get away with smaller hips than shoulders, but on larger frames it's a dead give away. Visual acceptance of women goes back to primal factors, and small upper bodies are less threatening than larger ones. Acceptance is one thing, passing as a woman is another.

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 30, 2019, 08:34:16 AM
Have to disagree. Any woman built like a bodybuilder is going to be looked at a second time, and then the larger hands and feet will be noticed. Sure, petite women can get away with smaller hips than shoulders, but on larger frames it's a dead give away. Visual acceptance of women goes back to primal factors, and small upper bodies are less threatening than larger ones. Acceptance is one thing, passing as a woman is another.

Allie

But don't forget that estrogen will help to reshape your upper body.  Muscles will go away, and the once so mighty chest will get smaller, while the rear end gets bigger!

If passing is important you should study a style guide based on body shape and size.  Just as GGs do! For MtF this usually means that you are a large Inverted Triangle.

You can draw attention to or away from particular body parts.  Nail polish will draw attention to your hands.  A belt can draw attention to your waist.  Long hair may draw attention to your face.  Heels will certainly draw attention to your legs and feet.

Of course, if you do nothing people may rely on first impressions based on your gait and body shape.

Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 30, 2019, 08:34:16 AM
Have to disagree. Any woman built like a bodybuilder is going to be looked at a second time, and then the larger hands and feet will be noticed. Sure, petite women can get away with smaller hips than shoulders, but on larger frames it's a dead give away. Visual acceptance of women goes back to primal factors, and small upper bodies are less threatening than larger ones. Acceptance is one thing, passing as a woman is another.

Allie

A few pages ago I wrote this, I think it applies equally here:

"Seems to me that passing is not a "one thing" thing but rather holistic. There may be a few tiny little things that add up to a giveaway. I'm sure she wouldn't normally look at someone with size 7-8 shoes and think of them as trans, but add in the other little clues, a face that has a few masculine traits being pre-FFS, a voice perhaps a touch deeper than normal, or without the correct inflection, and suddenly the alarm rings.

Obviously there are a few "one thing"s that are an automatic giveaway of gender, a beard for example, but for most other things, height, broadness, voice, feet, shape, mannerisms etc, its more part of an overall parcel. Deal with as many as you have control over and don't worry about the ones you can do nothing about.

My thoughts on it anyway"

Don't let broad shoulders define your thoughts and who you are. Yes they're a masculine trait, but many women also have them. I know a cis woman well over 6 feet tall with shoulders probably 2 feet wide. No one thinks of her as anything but a cis woman as her overall package suggests that.

Em

Also remember that as your deltoids and lats shrink on HRT, so will the appearance of your shoulders.

It is holistic, which means that everything matters.  If you want to pass you may have to give up certain things, like sexy bodycon dresses that call attention to a masculine figure. But, the eye is easily fooled, so it may not be that hard if you have the proper guidance or advice.  Getting help from someone else is a good idea, it is almost impossible to be objective.

I could not pass to a blind man in a dark alley on an ovecast night but, I'm not doing this for them.

Quote from: Bea1968 on April 30, 2019, 03:36:21 PM
I could not pass to a blind man in a dark alley on an ovecast night but, I'm not doing this for them.

@Bea1968
Dear Bea:
You are exactly right about "doing this for you" and not anyone else...
...it is for your own personal commitment to yourself.

Best wishes to you in your journey...
Hugs,
Danielle

Quote from: emma-f on April 30, 2019, 12:34:35 PM
A few pages ago I wrote this, I think it applies equally here:

"Seems to me that passing is not a "one thing" thing but rather holistic. There may be a few tiny little things that add up to a giveaway. I'm sure she wouldn't normally look at someone with size 7-8 shoes and think of them as trans, but add in the other little clues, a face that has a few masculine traits being pre-FFS, a voice perhaps a touch deeper than normal, or without the correct inflection, and suddenly the alarm rings.

Obviously there are a few "one thing"s that are an automatic giveaway of gender, a beard for example, but for most other things, height, broadness, voice, feet, shape, mannerisms etc, its more part of an overall parcel. Deal with as many as you have control over and don't worry about the ones you can do nothing about.

My thoughts on it anyway"

Don't let broad shoulders define your thoughts and who you are. Yes they're a masculine trait, but many women also have them. I know a cis woman well over 6 feet tall with shoulders probably 2 feet wide. No one thinks of her as anything but a cis woman as her overall package suggests that.

Em

Thank you Emma for your comments! I don't let my current physique determine who I am, I just believe it would stop me from passing in the eyes of others. As I said, most people who know me think of me as female, and I am on HRT to better match my self ID and appearance. As much as I'd love to pass, I'm realistic enough to know that it isn't currently possible. I'm not letting that rule my life, being female to me is not necessarily being pretty. I love to cook and sew, talking intimately with women, and absolutely love children. Having strangers think I am female from looks alone would be nice, but it would be just icing on the cake! We all have a different perspective on transition, so our goals are different as well. I just think it is important to have realistic goals, to avoid severe disappointment.

Allie

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on April 30, 2019, 12:45:04 PM
Also remember that as your deltoids and lats shrink on HRT, so will the appearance of your shoulders.

Thank you Colleen. Yes, I am looking forward to muscle shrinkage giving me a better shape, and as I am naturally big muscled, I'm hoping for significant change. But I am starting very late in life, (65yo) so my reaction to the HRT meds may not be as dramatic as I'd like. I will wait and see, but keeping a conservative outlook, as I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than bitterly disappointed!

Allie

Quote from: Dietlind on April 30, 2019, 09:00:47 AM
But don't forget that estrogen will help to reshape your upper body.  Muscles will go away, and the once so mighty chest will get smaller, while the rear end gets bigger!

Hopefully Dietlind, but at 65, I may not get such dramatic results. My T has been in the female range for a decade, yet my muscles have remained large (My son says it isn't fair, as I don't work out either). Hopefully E will make enough change (I'm not on Spiro), but I have to be realistic with my prospects of passing.

Allie

My voice passes pretty well, but my presentation is still mostly male and my looks are almost androgynous minus the beard shadow. I have to fight doctors' offices to convince them I'm not my mother over the phone now.

I feel like that by starting with voice training, I'm at this point the opposite of most other trans women I meet where their voice outs them but their appearance is stellar.

Passing is not just about looks, but our mannerisms, stance, body language, facial expression and prestentation
is as or more important anyway. Especially when these are done naturally without thinking compared to acting out
the role. 

Quote from: AshleyP on April 29, 2019, 11:57:55 PM
Reminds me of a discussion I had recently with my therapist. I'd made a similar observation, and she posed the question, "Does it matter whether others [strangers] see you as cis or trans as long as they see you as a woman?"

I would suggest for many if not most who read a T* still treat them as woman they likely see not a woman but a man "trying" to be a woman... but that have no issue with that... (but some will)

So the question IMO really is does THAT matter... and the answer is very individual.

- karen

Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 30, 2019, 05:44:57 AM
I'm a long way from passing and running out of years. I doubt I ever will get an acceptable shoulder to hip ratio.

I started HRT at 40 and I am now in my mid 60's and I never did... I also have big a upper body with no hips or backside... I did better when I was very overweight in the passing department (I was once 360lbs!), but that has other downsides.

Now at half that weight my frame (and lack of dramatic HRT results) means that in this day and age some read me.

I think with that type of build one needs very good HRT results... I think it matters a lot less if one is short and has an overall slight build.

- karen

Quote from: Karen_A on May 05, 2019, 05:38:23 PM
I would suggest for many if not most who read a T* still treat them as woman they likely see not a woman but a man "trying" to be a woman... but that have no issue with that... (but some will)

So the question IMO really is does THAT matter... and the answer is very individual.

- karen

This is true IMHO. Passing privilege grants you an opportunity to be treated as a cis woman.
I remember when I had to present pre-HRT, people were nice but rather saw me as a feminine man and were walking on egg shells to not say anything bad. Now 4 years later I pass flawlessly and people treat me completely differently. I just get treated like every other woman nowadays.
It was like day and night for me.


Luv,

Debby

I pass all the time for quite a while now.  But because of my biology my body was mostly female anyway all my life.  The biggest problem was the socialization, i. e., behave like a woman and not like a man in female clothing.  For the last 5 or 6 years now, I have only female friends and do things with females only.  This changed me away from my male behavior to female type of behavior, and also helped me to mostly eliminate my typical male way of talking.
Nature blessed me with a rather high pitch voice, and I had only to change the male type of talking to sound female,  I have this kind of talking so internalized now that it became my second nature.
The only times I purposely fall back into my male speech type is on the telephone.  I feel I get better reactions/actions and results with my male voice than with my female.

But, as was said before, passing depends not only on the looks, it also depends on the presentation and behavior!

Quote from: Dietlind on May 05, 2019, 08:46:31 PM
I pass all the time for quite a while now.  But because of my biology my body was mostly female anyway all my life.  The biggest problem was the socialization, i. e., behave like a woman and not like a man in female clothing.  For the last 5 or 6 years now, I have only female friends and do things with females only.  This changed me away from my male behavior to female type of behavior, and also helped me to mostly eliminate my typical male way of talking.
Nature blessed me with a rather high pitch voice, and I had only to change the male type of talking to sound female,  I have this kind of talking so internalized now that it became my second nature.
The only times I purposely fall back into my male speech type is on the telephone.  I feel I get better reactions/actions and results with my male voice than with my female.

But, as was said before, passing depends not only on the looks, it also depends on the presentation and behavior!

I think you totally pass. In fact you remind me a lot of my great aunt Gerta. She is one of my very favorite relatives but unfortunately I don't get to see her much because she's in Germany. 😕

It was a great ego boost when I passed at the doc's office. I was seeing the team who gave me my TS diagnose. The psychologist looked around in the room and in her papers. Looked at all the guys (3 of us) and then in the papers. Then she asked "Is there someone in here who has an appointment with me?"

I still had my birth name in the papers.

I agree to previous posters. It's more than just the looks. It's mannerism and behavior.

In my evaluation by the transgender team I read "masculine mannerism" in my medical record. In my country you can see that online.


Tony

Quote from: Julia1996 on May 05, 2019, 09:17:40 PM
I think you totally pass. In fact you remind me a lot of my great aunt Gerta. She is one of my very favorite relatives but unfortunately I don't get to see her much because she's in Germany. 😕

Well, I may come by and visit you instead of her, when I do my annual trip up north or back this year.  And you could call me Gerta for a change!  :angel:

Quote from: Dietlind on May 05, 2019, 11:52:21 PM
Well, I may come by and visit you instead of her, when I do my annual trip up north or back this year.  And you could call me Gerta for a change!  :angel:

That would be fun. My grandma could show you around Denver. She would totally love to have another German lady to hang with.

Quote from: Julia1996 on May 06, 2019, 12:14:25 AM
That would be fun. My grandma could show you around Denver. She would totally love to have another German lady to hang with.

I did not know that you were over there in th e mountains.  It is quite a bit out of my way (going from Florida to Minnesota), but I can see if i can wing I on my way back, or on another Trip (I still have to visit my niece in California, she has never seen me as her aunt).
I could have a nice Kaffeklatsch or two with your Grandma!

I had a bunch of text written about how I feel about 'passing'. I changed it to one line:

"The one thing that I know for certain: The only place that I want to pass 100% yet I fail 100% is in my own mirror"

well i'm pre everything so not yet.

i'm at the "look either like a pre pubescent boy or a butch lesbian" stage.

I've had a few interactions lately that confirm this. A guy yesterday actually HISSED at me as he passed, I assume because he was making assumptions about my appearance and sexuality. I ignored him while smirking to myself "you're only half right douchebag" (i'm bisexual haaha)

I'm fairly sure the guy who abused me on the bus the other week only approached me to harrass because he thought I was a kid (I apparently look about 12-14) and the fact that the man behind us who defended me referred to me as "that young lady" sort of confirmed they thought i was a teenager (and not well into my 30s). Though they only started to refer to me with gendered terms when I spoke so I assume it was my voice that confirmed it for them. Heck, as I left the bus a couple of well meaning strangers were trying to mother me!
So yeah...

I look like a teenager.

my neighbour said I looked like a boy so yay neighbour? hahah.

my biggest problem is more my voice. In terms of most mannerisms i've always been fairly masculine in the way I sit and walk and all that, but I have a very obviously female voice.
Also the fact I refuse to remove my jewellery haha, that doesn't help either but eh, i'm not removing my jewellery. I like my jewellery.

I'm definitely going to come across as somewhat flamboyant when I do eventually "pass" and i'm okay with that. I AM a rather flamboyant person. Always have been. It's got nothing to do with my genitals or being socialised a certain way (most of my upbringing was fairly gender neutral tbh) and more just my personality.

basically I need a deeper voice and a more angular face and then I should be golden. I mean yeah i'm gonna look like a teenage boy but to be fair, that's just the genes from my dad's side. ALL that side of the family have baby faces lol.
When i cut my hair short I said to my mother "omg I look like my dad!" and she was all "you DO NOT!" and I was like "I DO! it's hilarious!"

I can definitely see the resemblance far far easier now that my hair is short and boyish. The more male I look, the more clearly my dad's kid I become lol. Which is funny because I always assumed I looked nothing like either of my parents.

I bet you could train your voice to be lower, the same way as trans women can get higher.  I have a rather high pitch naturally, and can switch into female or male sounding conversations.  I bet you can do that, too.  Just move your resonance down into your chest will help a lot already, and learn the male type speech pattern, and you will be there.
You will not get a deep booming guy voice, but an OK one.  I never could do he booming sounds either, but nobody ever had any doubts that I was not a guy!

I have not really begun transitioning, so I don't really pass. However, I do occasionally get read as a woman or most often get the "ma'am...sir" thing. It's a bit comforting that I do get that just because of my hair being longer and my clothes being women's but extremely subtly so. It gives me some hope for when I get on HRT and actually get my hair styled (and grow it out further, it's currently "medium" by women's standards) and put on make up.

Quote from: Faith on May 06, 2019, 06:38:25 AM
I had a bunch of text written about how I feel about 'passing'. I changed it to one line:

"The one thing that I know for certain: The only place that I want to pass 100% yet I fail 100% is in my own mirror"

I get this entirely. To add another 100% to it - that is 100% me. And I'm fairly sure it 95% annoys my friends when I obsess over it!

Em

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47069549024_237422afc9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eHnK3G)8226 (https://flic.kr/p/2eHnK3G) by Claire Labus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150862552@N05/), on Flickr

A little over two years in, just before Christmas of 2018.  This also happens to be the first time I felt that I was able to pass.  I still have my doubts though.

When I first came out I felt like nobody saw me as a woman. When I was in New York last month for my vocal cord surgery, a friend of a friend we were meeting up with said that she was shocked and completely forgot I was trans. I feel like I pass. I look in the mirror and don't feel like a boy anymore. That being said, I also notice every flaw in every trans woman, including myself. Like chins, hips, hands, hair. So, I know I pass, and I feel like a woman, but it's hard to say that I pass 100%. If I could give myself a grade, B-.

I think some of the responses may be confusing 'passing' and 'accepted'. I see passing as being identified as cis by pretty much everyone. Being identified as trans without negative experiences is being accepted. I doubt I'll ever achieve the dream of being seen as a cis woman by many, but I will be happy if I can be accepted as a trans woman.

From learning photography, I found that initial perceptions depend on some key features. It's not just what you look like, but how the observer assesses a scene. In a photo of a person, the eye is the first thing an observer is drawn to, so it must be in focus. Some say this is instinct as the eye can inform if someone is friendly or foe. The next thing is the setting. In typical female settings, the observer expects to see females, and so will initially see everyone as a female, unless there are obvious contradictions. Same for male settings. In a photo of a person with long hair pushing a shopping trolley in a supermarket, initial id will be female. Things that will cause a second look in a photo are those which don't complete the story. If the trolley pusher is coming into the photo, ie there is an aisle ahead of them, the observer uses the information presented to complete the story, ie person shopping. If the trolley pusher is leaving the photo, the observer doesn't have the information to see the immediate future, and so a question is formed.

Presenting as other than your birth gender uses the same principles. If you basically look consistent with the story, the observer will be confident of the immediate future and move on. If there is an obvious inconsistency with the story, the observer will stop and question to determine the immediate future before moving on. The key elements are distance, the scene and the eye. It comes back to instinct. At a distance, another person is less threat, but as you get closer, it is natural to quickly look for signs of threat, so going to the eye is first. If the eye doesn't show threat, then the rest of the package will be assessed. This is why young teen girls are so good at making trans people. They are honing their visual defences, and are sensitive to anything which doesn't complete the story.

Passing as cis is great, but being accepted despite doubt as to your gender may be a greater achievement as you have done things to cause people to welcome you into their world which may be a stronger relationship. Not passing and not being accepted are what most of us fear.

Enough rambling, over to your thoughts!!

Allie

Quote from: Artesia on May 15, 2019, 06:20:12 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47069549024_237422afc9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eHnK3G)8226 (https://flic.kr/p/2eHnK3G) by Claire Labus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150862552@N05/), on Flickr

A little over two years in, just before Christmas of 2018.  This also happens to be the first time I felt that I was able to pass.  I still have my doubts though.

Artesia, you are beautiful. No matter how nice we look, we always doubt ourselves. Remember that a mirror only shows us what we want to see, look for beauty and that is what you will find.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Sometimes.  Like when I am throwing a football.

:)


Seriously, far from always but I am still transitioning.


Chrissy

It found it very hard to be accepted as a short guy.  For one, it is very hard to find appropriate clothes that ft, even if you love to shop.  But, as I make my presentation more feminine, acceptance is now the norm.  By being more female than male, I get judged by my appearance according to female norms.  Too short becomes a petite hourglass!  And now I can buy tons of clothes that fit!  Today a lady asked my opinion on the fresh corn in the produce aisle.

No. But to be fair, I guess I would need to try first!

To be honest, when I look in the mirror I just see my old male self (I know everyone says that, but it is so true).  I sometimes feel like such a fraud.  I'm full-time now so I'm hopeful I blend in.  Adults are mostly kind to me and don't pay any attention to me, but children sometimes, with their lower social inhibitions, sometimes look at me in a questioning way.  Here's me in a tank top.  I took this as I was trying to determine if I could pull it off or not as I had never worn something like this in public before (but it was so hot outside).  I feel like my upper body is so muscular and bulky so I usually just try to cover it up.  I've never had the confidence to wear a dress or skirt outside in public.  I always cover my head because of hairline issues, but scheduled for hair transplants in July.  I hope it helps.  In the tank top picture, I don't have any make-up on.  Obviously I have some on in my avatar picture.  Comments??  Please be honest as my greatest fear is being the subject of ridicule.  I know it shouldn't be as I feel so much better.(http://img_0636.jpg)

Well, obviously I also don't know how to post a picture on here.  Crud

My appearance is genderfluid in which I'm fully outed and no one has ever said anything to us negatively, I'm only 5ft 6 and slight build with long blonde hair so I can pull off wearing skirts etc quite easily, the more I transition the more il try to look more feminine.

Cayla x

I'm 6'4" and for the time being weigh 275. I have an extremely deep voice. So sadly I will never be able to pass. But I'm not giving up on my transition, so if people won't accept me then that's their loss. I'm going to be me no matter what.

Lexxi

Quote from: Lexxi on May 27, 2019, 01:25:53 AM
I'm 6'4" and for the time being weigh 275. I have an extremely deep voice. So sadly I will never be able to pass. But I'm not giving up on my transition, so if people won't accept me then that's their loss. I'm going to be me no matter what.

Lexxi

There are tall women around, I am 6' and i like to wear 4" high heels.  You  can do something about the weight and the voice.  and before you know it, you will be called ma'am

Well thank you Linde!! That makes me feel good. I've started working on both already. I'm hoping the weight comes off quick like it used to when I was younger. I'm already down a couple of pounds so that's encouraging.

The voice has been a bit harder to get a handle on. I've been using YouTube videos to help me along. Every time I think I'm getting somewhere though, I'll listen to a recording of my voice and I still sound like the old me. Hopefully I'll get better though.  :) :) :)

xoxo

Lexxi

Quote from: Lexxi on May 27, 2019, 05:27:56 AM
Well thank you Linde!! That makes me feel good. I've started working on both already. I'm hoping the weight comes off quick like it used to when I was younger. I'm already down a couple of pounds so that's encouraging.

The voice has been a bit harder to get a handle on. I've been using YouTube videos to help me along. Every time I think I'm getting somewhere though, I'll listen to a recording of my voice and I still sound like the old me. Hopefully I'll get better though.  :) :) :)

xoxo

Lexxi

The member Natalie Rene has posted some good stuff of her own voice training..  She now sounds like a young lady.  Do a search for it, it is really great!
I was blessed with a rather high pitch natural voice (well, it was not a blessing trying to talk with a voice like that as a tough man), and I had to change my speech pattern only to sound like an older woman (and I am an older woman).  It takes training and concentration for a certain amount of time to get there.  Now my normal speech pattern is that of a female, and I have to work really hard on trying to sound like a male.
You can do it!  If I could do it there is no doubt about it that you can do it!

Good luck and hang in there!
Linde

Lexxi there are lots of cis tall ladies that you could look on for examples and be feminine, It must be harder for a transitioning lady when height and build can look against you but it shouldn't deter you by no means, your a lady at heart mind and soul.

Cayla x

Quote from: Breeze 57 on May 26, 2019, 11:23:08 AM
Well, obviously I also don't know how to post a picture on here.  Crud

Breeze, you have to have your picture on a hosting site like Flikr, then you click on the share button on that image to get a BBC code, Copy and paste that code into your posts on this forum, and voila, you will be exposed to the world!

Hint - you may get options on image size, pick small or medium so your post doesn't end up huge, and to retain anonimity, only copy and paste the section of the BBC Code between [img ] at the start, and [/img ] at the end.

Looking forward to seeing more of you!

Allie

Thank you Linde for the suggestion. I might have seen a couple of her videos already, but I didn't write down her name for future reference. But I'm going to look her up tonight and see if she's the same person.

Thank you Cayla. While being my size makes passing hard, I'm definitely not going to be giving up. I am who I am...and that's a female. I've wanted it for as long as I can remember and I'm not going to let anything stop me now.

xoxo

Lexxi

I am passing for a long time, and beside looks the first words people hear are also important for getting passing pronoun's.

Quote from: Northern Star Girl on March 04, 2018, 03:56:40 PM@ Allison S:  5' 5" if I puff up my hair... most likely 5' 4" dripping wet.  I know that transwomen that are taller have a more difficult time...
,,,but I have cis girlfriends that I go to the gym with that are much taller, one is 5' 11" and one is 6' 2" and they are beautiful and popular women.
Aspiringperson

Hey, you're shrinking.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Devlyn, she said she was 5' 4" dripping wet -- most items do shrink a bit in the wash. I bet she fluffs up to at least 5' 5" when she's dry!

I'm 6' 1". The first question strangers usually ask me:

1 - 'How tall are you?'
2 - 'Did you play basketball?'

No one ever asks about my gender.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

I so love only being 5ft 3in. Years ago it was such a disadvantage especially at the bar attempting to get drinks as everyone around was taller. Now I get "that lady was first" or "go on darling give your order" from the men. As for passing, I have done so for a good 4 year now, not long after I started HRT and got a bit of shape.

Hugs
Jessica xxx

I think I pass most of the time. One really doesn't know.

Quote from: Oldandcreaky on January 03, 2024, 07:04:09 PMI think I pass most of the time. One really doesn't know.

Confirmation is when you are chatting woman to woman, and women's health problems come up in the conversation lol

Hugs
Jessica xx

Yes and no.  Ah, so it goes.  But it is nice to be treated as a woman regardless.

Christine

From the next down I would show as a little chunky. Otherwise No.

My conversations have certainly changed since I've been presenting as a woman, even when I'm talking to a receptionist at an office who knows I'm AMAB.

Since I have never been accosted and no one has ever asked me directly I would have to say that I pass, either that or they do not care. Yes, people know but that is because they knew me as <deadname> or I have told.

Ellen

If I always male fail I would be delighted.  Not so; but, I have for awhile now been content for what I have.  I wish I was prettier, but with another birthday arriving soon that wish may be a forever wish. 

The secret is contentment.

Chrissy