This thread is meant to be a journal of sorts of my HRT travels and experiences:
A bit of back ground, since about 2008 I dabbled in herbal feminization products after I bad break-up with my fiance at that time. I'm not really sure what started me on that road, but I found myself there. I was also dabbling in crossdressing as well. But for the most part it was streaks of a few days or weeks here and there over the years.
In late 2015 my wife and I began to have martial problems, and I found myself starting and stopping herbal regimines, for no more than a week here and there, and never longer than a couple of weeks if that. this past fall she found some of the pills I was taking and confronted me about it. A huge part of me was terrified and embarssed by it, but it gave me the strength and freed om to start seeing a therapist about my gender identity issues and then shortly afterwards I saw my GD for informed consent. I went to 2 appointments with my GD to discuss the informed consent process and establish some base line lab work. I had a 3rd appontment scheduled where we would have reviewed the informed consent foremd signed it and gotten my perscriptions but IU had chickened out, mostly due to hoping I could salvage my marriage. At that time I had opted to do another round of Testopell pellets as well. And for a few months I was all good. Then around the 3 month mark on those pellets I began to really wish I had started my MtF HRT regime at the beginning of the year and made an appointment with my GD. THe earliest I could get in was the end of June 2017.
I managed to get in to see my GD nearly a month earlier then I had scheduled, and had my 3rd Informed consent appoint on June 5th. My GD and I went over and signed my Informed consent form and I was prescribed a low dose of Estradiol. I had dabbled in PM and Natureday over the last few years and never really stuck with either for more than a couple of weeks. This fall I had tried BO for a week or so. Up until this point, I hadn't been able to see much of any affect or physical changes. I think I had developed some amount of fatty tissue in the breast area enough to note my measurements as 38 1/2 inches under and 39 1/2 inches over.
The next morning, I took my first dose of Estrogen. About half way through the day (if even that long), I started to notice random aches and pain in my chest area. I tried not to think too much of this aching and what not. The Second day, it became more noticable, but I was still afraid it was all in my head. Late the second day or early on the third day, I noticed what seemed like a really sore muscle on my left side in the area where breast tissue starts to wrap under the arm pit. And later that night, as I was watching TV, I noticed the achy feeling all across my chest area, and it feelt warm or something. I have also noticed a change in my skin. It feels much more soft and smooth feeling and more oily, but not oily. That part is hard to describe.
I over the last 3 days I've tried to tell myself that these achy feelings were all in my head. Now I am not so sure. They come and go, but today were much more steady and a bit more uncomfortable.
I am not on Sprio or any T-blocker. In fact Feb 28, I did a round of T -pellets as I tried to sort things out. Prior to starting that my T was 238ng/DL. On May 22, just before I was schedule for a new pellet placement round my T was 408ng/DL. Last July, before I did my first T replacement with Pellets it was 194 ng/DL.
So my T is naturally now in the 200 area. Could I be responding to the Estradiol so well practically immediately?
1 Month Update:
I may have gained 1/2 inch over and am now 40inches over and 38 under. I think that this difference in measurements could be a result of any variation in how I measured myself etc...
But over all, I haven't noticed much discomfort or swelling or itchiness since early on. My mood may be a bit happier, despite a ton of negative stuff going on in my life right now. One thing I have noticed in comparison to when I was taking herbal supplements, is that I am no longer having any kind of WTF am I doing moments that made me stop taking the herbal supplements.
1st Follow-up appointment with my GD July 11, 2017
It was a fairly easy and informal appointment. a few questions about how I was feeling since I started on Estrogen. I asked my GD a bunch of questions about Spironolactone and discussed my options moving forward. I had a long discussion about the pros and cons (side effects) of adding an Anti-Androgen to my regimen.
She gave me the option the option of just doing blood work to check my hormone levels, both T and E, increasing my Estradiol, keepiong the Estradiol the same and adding a T-blocker, or checking my hormone levels, increasing my Eatradiol and when my lab work comes back making a decision about adding in the Spironolactin.
I opted for the later option and am now on what I think is generally considered a medium dose of Estradiol. I had gone into thmy follow-up under the impressions that we would not discuss, let alone consider increasing it until after 3 months.
I am still leary about starting the testosterone blocker for several reasons. But at this point if my Estrogen levels are not notocobly higher and my T is still in my normal range, i will seriously consider adding it. A year ago my T was at 194. In January, after 4 months of T pellets it was in the 280s and at the end of February is was down to the 230s, before I started another round of T pellets. Oddly enough it was around the 3 month mark on T pellets, both times, that I really considered starting HRT with Estrogen.
Today: July 13, 2017.
My GD emailed me with my lab results, my total T is at 180mg/dL, so about the same as a year ago. I am honestly not surprised that is where my total T is at after only 1 month. Sadly, she did not order any tests to check my Estradiol levels. She said it was much to soon.
I made the bold decision to start on Sprionolactone today. After 1 dose, I have been peeing like crazy, but I am also drinking a ton of water today too because of the effects it has on the body (diuretic etc...). I need to go get some lab work done in 2-4 weeks to check my kidney functions and electrolytes, after being on the Spiro for a bit. Then I follow-up with my GD in September when we will likely check all my hormone levels.
At this point, I am fairly excited about all of this, and look forward to taking my next dose. I find my self counting down til then all the time.
But at this point I am feeling good. I'm still waiting for the big changes/development to kick in. I haven't noticed any budding yet. My breasts/nipples are not sore or sensitive or anything yet, but I am eagerly awaiting for that to happen. I;ve heard it is both torture and delightfull all at the same time.
But most importantly at this point it is still way to early in this process for me to get any of the answers I am looking for. But I am positively looking forward to the journey. Now that being said, can we get some physical development started already please. What does a girl have to do to get her breasts to start growing? :D Patience is the key I know. But still....
Hello Myranda,
Thank you for sharing your story. It sounds like you have made your decision and are beginning the journey to yourself. Adding a T blocker to the regimen will likely jump start the changes. Testosterone is pretty wicked stuff and will block E expression to a significant degree. Still it takes a few months for the obvious changes to begin. So till then relish your skin and your smile. Start laser and electrolysis, and begin working on your voice.
This is a pilgrimage and a long one at that, but the changes will come in their own time, and as they do you will probably become ever more impatient. At least that is my story. Disposing of facial hair takes quite a while and the sooner you begin, the sooner you'll be done. Trust me, it is discouraging to be full time and still have stubble on electrolysis day. Heck it's not just discourageing, it bloody sucks.
Good luck and I hope you'll maintain this journal. It will be something that you'll enjoy reading in a few years.
Best,
Julie
Thank you Julie.
Any time :) . PM me about anything if you would like to have a private chat. I've been on HRT for years and am post op. If I can be helpful, I will be. I know that this is both exciting and kind of scary.
Peace
Julie
Not much new to report here about my experiences so far.
But I do want to note the following:
1) Over the last two weeks or so, I' have been extremely tired. I can barely keep my eyes open or stay awake when I get home from work. And forget the weekends. As soon as I sit down to relax and catch up on the week's shows, I fall asleep.
2) Today my kid has been jumping and climbing all over me, which is usually and always fun. Today I noticed that my right nipple is quite sore, and my left nipple is only barely sore from her climbing and jumping all over me. But when I say my right nipple is sore, I mean when it is touched or a good amount of pressure is placed on it, it screams like some one has been pinching and twisting it for a while. Other than that I still don't see any signs of budding yet, though I realize that it may still be too early yet, according to my MtF Transition timelines.
Quote from: Myranda on July 28, 2017, 08:12:07 PM
Not much new to report here about my experiences so far.
But I do want to note the following:
1) Over the last two weeks or so, I' have been extremely tired. I can barely keep my eyes open or stay awake when I get home from work. And forget the weekends. As soon as I sit down to relax and catch up on the week's shows, I fall asleep.
2) Today my kid has been jumping and climbing all over me, which is usually and always fun. Today I noticed that my right nipple is quite sore, and my left nipple is only barely sore from her climbing and jumping all over me. But when I say my right nipple is sore, I mean when it is touched or a good amount of pressure is placed on it, it screams like some one has been pinching and twisting it for a while. Other than that I still don't see any signs of budding yet, though I realize that it may still be too early yet, according to my MtF Transition timelines.
Hi Myranda,
I am Laurie. I read your story and according to my medication leaflet being tired could be a side effect of taking spiro. Your T level were lower than the normal male range already so the spiro should help it become lower fairly quickly I think. I am not a doctor or a pharmacist thought so I could easily be wrong.
Anyway I wish you well in your endeavors with HRT and all the good feelings it can bring.
Hugs,
Laurie
Laurie,
I guess I should have added, that I know its a side effect of the Spiro and Low T, and have dealt with low T for at least the last 5 years, I'm surprised at how bad it is now. I'm really curious as to what my levels are now, but I believe my Dr doesn't plan on checking them again until September. She wants me to go get my electrolytes and stuff tested with in the next 2 weeks as she is more concerned about those types of effects and side effects of the Spiro than anything else.
I'm not overly concerned about them so far based upon the way I've been feeling. I haven't noticed any dizziness or other issues related to dehydration or low blood pressure.
I have to say though, that I'm surprised that none of the effects lsited on the paperwork from the pharmacy mention that it lowers T.
Quote from: Myranda on July 30, 2017, 10:31:12 AM
Laurie,
I guess I should have added, that I know its a side effect of the Spiro and Low T, and have dealt with low T for at least the last 5 years, I'm surprised at how bad it is now. I'm really curious as to what my levels are now, but I believe my Dr doesn't plan on checking them again until September. She wants me to go get my electrolytes and stuff tested with in the next 2 weeks as she is more concerned about those types of effects and side effects of the Spiro than anything else.
I'm not overly concerned about them so far based upon the way I've been feeling. I haven't noticed any dizziness or other issues related to dehydration or low blood pressure.
I have to say though, that I'm surprised that none of the effects lsited on the paperwork from the pharmacy mention that it lowers T.
Hi Myranda,
I have been fortunate in that Spiro has not had to much effect on my bathroom habits. But that may be due to my difficulty in drinking the amounts lab technicians, my electrologist, and all kinds of other sources online from nutritionists to nuts. (I've never paid attention to the last two btw) I know it help plump my veins and aid in electrolysis, but I have to make a conscious effort to drink anything near those amounts.
As for the low BP I have to be careful when getting out of bed in the mornings or raising from sitting because I did see a significant lowering of my BP from adding Spiro. I was and am still on another BP medication. I have gotten dizzy from getting up too quickly and even had my sight go dark for a brief second or two a couple times. My doctor tells me I shouldn't be too concerned as long as I otherwise felt good. He cautioned me to be more careful and take it slow when getting up. It usually is not a problem. But do be aware of the possible issue.
As for lowering T.. That wouldn't be listed as a side effect if at all and looking at the drug information online may show it. Those circulars frequently tell you "these are not all of the possible side effects" Because the drug is a BP medication you'll not find blocking T among the uses for it.
Laurie
I expect it means that your breasts are beginning to grow rapidly more than a Spiro side effect and low T. Have breast buds formed under the nipples? Breast tenderness is something that all women, cis and trans, experience as they enter puberty. Congratulations. :)
Julie
Quote from: JB_Girl on July 30, 2017, 05:24:49 PM
I expect it means that your breasts are beginning to grow rapidly more than a Spiro side effect and low T. Have breast buds formed under the nipples? Breast tenderness is something that all women, cis and trans, experience as they enter puberty. Congratulations. :)
Julie
Thanks Julie. That is what I expect this all to mean and I am really excited about it. But sadly, I am unable to feel any buds beneath my nipples. I keep feeling them to check to see if I can feel the bud under there, vainly hoping that this will be the time that I do. I know it is just a matter of time, but is it time yet? And as much as I want to get past the traffic cone look, I'd love to see my own traffic cone shapes when I look down or in the mirror.
Well this whole week my breasts have been constantly sore, nothing completely and unbearably noticeable, but they are definitely sore or tender all the time. I even measured my over and I could have sworn that after measuring twice the tape read 41 inches across, up from 39.5. I don't completely see increase in size, but every now any thing when I am putting on a t-shirt, it clings just right and I swear it is not my imagination.
Sadly though, I still cannot feel anything that I would definitely call a lump behind my nipples or anything else to indicate buds.
So far no real noticeable mental changes.
So last night something unexpected and while minor, was fairly wonderful form where I sit.
I was sitting on the floor in my living room,leaning against one of my couches with my arm and elbow on the couch seat. I twisted and turned around to look at something I had on the couch, and I experienced my first definitive sensation of my breasts growing and I somehow managed to compress my left breast and push on my breast bud.
Now I can't stop feeling them. It is wonderful!
This experience among all my other thoughts and experiences since starting HRT, really makes me wish I had started HRT back in January when I had the opportunity to do so. But the most important thing is that I have started and I am noticing changes to my body now! WOO HOO! I should also mention that according to my tap measure, I have gained 2 whole inches across my breasts, from 39 to 41 inches. That being said when I look in the mirror , to include my profile, I am not sure I see that much of a difference, though I do see some.
what is somewhat frustrating, is that so far my little experiment into exploring my female identity, has not really led me to any definitive answer. Mentally, I do not feel any real difference. I never really hated my body, or had any of the "typical" feelings associated with the "typical" transgender story/experience. So while I don't feel any better, I certainly DO NOT feel any worse either. Which makes me think, I'm more gender neutral, who desires some more female characteristics.
I noticed this morning that if I cup my breast with opposite hand, that I can feel the other breast resting atop my forearm. Still not noticeable visually though, especially with a shirt on.
I also noticed that the last few nights when its been chilly out, that my nipples seem to tingle with the cold. Never felt that sensation prior to HRT.
Correction, I was at the beach yesterday and I changed my shirt, and I could totally see my nipples poking out the front of my shirt. In all likely hood I was probably the only one who could notice them doing that, since I was looking for it. But in the last week, I feel like things have changed quite a bit. I'm both excited and eager for more, and a bit nervous. I was going to say terrified, but It is way to early to be terrified. Once they reach a good healthy size and show no signs of stopping, I'll revisit that.
So, I was supposed have to have my 3-month follow up this morning and due to other obligations this morning I had to drive into the city to see my GD. I was nearly to the office, just about to get off the highway and begin navigating the downtown city streets when the doctor's office called, and as soon as I saw them on the caller ID, I knew that they had to cancel at the last minute. Turns out that my Dr. called in sick this morning. So I rescheduled for next Monday at the same time. Then this afternoon something else came up and the only convenient time for that was next Monday an hour away from my doctor's office, so I had to push my follow-up out another week unti l the 25th. UGH, I was hoping to get my blood work done today to see where I am at after 3 months E and 2 months Spiro.
I finally got in to see my doctor yesterday. It was very much a typical doctor's appointment. Show up, the nurse takes your vitals, then the doctor comes in asks how you are and how your feeling.
She asked me specifically if I had noticed any physical development, and I briefly told her about my small but noticable breast growth, and that the discomfort/pain had stopped.
We then breifly discussed dosage options and what those would be based upon my blood work.
My liver and kidney results were all well in the normal range. YAY!
My Total Testosterone was 99 ng/dL (almost half of what it was when I started Spiro), she would like it under 55. She asked me if I wanted to double my Spironolactone. I discussed with her that I'm still on the fence as I am more leary/concerned about the other side effects of that (low blood pressure and dizziness etc..)
My Estradiol serum level was 87pg/mL, and she says the goal range is 100-200. She asked and I agreed to increase my dosage of Estradiol again. It will now be what she described as a normal "Full dose"
Quote from: Myranda on September 01, 2017, 08:25:55 AMwhat is somewhat frustrating, is that so far my little experiment into exploring my female identity, has not really led me to any definitive answer. Mentally, I do not feel any real difference. I never really hated my body, or had any of the "typical" feelings associated with the "typical" transgender story/experience. So while I don't feel any better, I certainly DO NOT feel any worse either. Which makes me think, I'm more gender neutral, who desires some more female characteristics.
This sounds exactly like me. I've put on a wig and some female clothes while alone to see if I felt anything. I didn't lol...And I also have never hated my body. So I'm also thinking I'm somewhere in the spectrum leaning towards female.
Quote from: Myranda on September 01, 2017, 08:25:55 AM
what is somewhat frustrating, is that so far my little experiment into exploring my female identity, has not really led me to any definitive answer. Mentally, I do not feel any real difference. I never really hated my body, or had any of the "typical" feelings associated with the "typical" transgender story/experience. So while I don't feel any better, I certainly DO NOT feel any worse either. Which makes me think, I'm more gender neutral, who desires some more female characteristics.
I've come to believe the "mental" changes that a person experiences at the onset of HT has a lot to do with the mental state to start with. I'd also read plenty of testimonials of those having been blissed out after taking their first pill. It lead me to have some expectations in that regard. I didn't and haven't. Much like you, mentally, I still don't feel any real difference. I'm only about 10 months in though.
All the best,
--AshleyP
Quote from: AshleyP on September 27, 2017, 01:34:55 PM
I've come to believe the "mental" changes that a person experiences at the onset of HT has a lot to do with the mental state to start with. I'd also read plenty of testimonials of those having been blissed out after taking their first pill. It lead me to have some expectations in that regard. I didn't and haven't. Much like you, mentally, I still don't feel any real difference. I'm only about 10 months in though.
All the best,
--AshleyP
So I'm not quite sure I understand or know what you are saying. Do you mean, that if a person had the worst disphoria, that the changes would be more noticable? And if a person had little to mild disphoria that it would be minor or barely noticable mental change?
Quote from: Myranda on September 27, 2017, 06:16:34 PM
So I'm not quite sure I understand or know what you are saying. Do you mean, that if a person had the worst disphoria, that the changes would be more noticable? And if a person had little to mild disphoria that it would be minor or barely noticable mental change?
Yeah, I think that would be one example, maybe a big one, but I think other things can play into it. For example, I'm sure you've seen other posts expressing great frustration about the process of just getting started with HT, i.e. the gatekeepers, the requirements, etc. There's other things that might make a person really,
really want to start HT and the desire to pent up.
For me, I was already RLE, as best I could, for a couple of years. I'd resigned myself to never being eligible for HT. When I did get the go ahead, I was more apprehensive than anxious to get started. And, keep in mind that I'm an older transitioner. As we say, YMMV.
All the best,
--AshleyP
I was near a breakdown when I first started Estradiol. Sixty years of secrets I could not handle anymore. I have been taking spiro for heart failure for 25 years. It is a diuretic and so extra water is necessary. I use a 40 oz thermos I got at Costco. I just put some ice and water and fill it up. I do this twice a day viola 80 oz. and the anytime cold water is really refreshing. The spiro gave me man boobs which I used to get teased for. But now after over a year on estradiol I have a full set. The tape measure says I have C's. I now take propecia (finasteride) because my T level while much lower was not where the Doc wanted it. as well as the spiro and as an added bonus I also take lasix. Now I pee like a racehorse but I still pee on myself. It's been a lifetime struggle to making it out of the bathroom without wet pants. Let's just say I was not blessed. This process is not a sprint but rather a marathon. Are you expecting miracles, because I don't' think they are on the agenda. The real miracle has been how stress relieving coming out of the closet is.
No I'm most definitely not expecting miracles.
As I have said from t he beginning, I'm not really sure where I fall on this spectrum, and I continue to be unsure. Starting HRT hasn't sent me over the proverbial edge/cliff yet. I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other. The only thing I can say certain at this point (3 months 3 weeks 1 day) is that I don't regret the decision and that I don't feel any worse for starting and that I don't necessarily feel any better for starting either.
So It's been about a month or so since I last made an update here....
It has been a trying month dealing with issues with my soon to be ex-wife.
During that time and perhaps just before it, I had some doubts about continuing HRT cross my mind. On a couple of occasions I had convinced myself that I needed to stop and was about to contact both my Therapist and my GD and tell them my decision. Somehow, I found the inner peace and/or strength to hold off over the weekend and re-evaluate come Monday. Monday would come and go, and it wouldn't cross my mind again. I
When I started this journey, I told myself, give it 6-months before you make any decisions about continuing or stopping. I'm almost at 5-months now. Honestly, I am not sure I notice any mental changes at all. I may be a bit more emotional/sappy when it comes to seeing "moving" thinghs in movies and on TV and such, but I'm not convinced that is a result of the new hormones. I think it has more to do with what I'm going through at home more than anything else.
The good news is that I definitely do not feel any worse. This is becoming more and more clear to me everyday. When I started, one of the major reason I did so was to be on the look out for the changes in me emotionally and mentally. Did I feel better about myself, did I like the new me etc...So this lack of change has really left me scratching me head. Does it mean I am really of 2-genders, neither male nor female? That may say more about me that I can admit or know right now. But I do know that I was hoping for more clarity about the mental and emotional portion of all of this at this point.
I was just reading a older post from Laurie from back in March as she was about to start her Theraputic journey:
Quote from: Laurie on March 10, 2017, 01:23:08 PM
Hi Asche
I don't think it qualifies as terror. But it is definitely apprehension and fear.
I also do not think it is learning more about me
There is some aspect of " am I really trans " for sure but not so much.
Fear that this means it's going to be really real? This one is a FOR SURE. Each and every step has has filled me with apprehension and makes it more real. Each step feels as you say "irrevocable" They haven't made it any easier.
When I started HRT, I felt I could do it and stop if I decided it wasn't right for me, I haven't stopped and I am running out of that grace period where it wasn't irrevocable. I haven't stopped, yet. But I still have those nagging doubts. With each doctor visit I delve deeper into belonging here, really belonging. I think I fear that being true.
I'm not sure that makes any sense.
Jeanette
Heck I'm even crying about it now. Dang hormones.
Laurie's comments about apprehension and making things "feel more real" really struck me. On some levels I'm still terrified or at least apprehensive. But, I'm also loving the changes I have noticed, especially the last couple of weeks as my breasts have started to develop.
So as I was saying earlier in this post, I even when I thought I was ready to stop, I just kept going. I really don't want to stop. It has become my new normal and a part of who I am and a part of my daily schedule. Does this mean it is right for me? God knows I have every reason to stop, but I'm not sure I have any reason to continue. I haven't had any desire to dress overtly or underdress and I have no plans on transitioning or going full time. I'm not against it and a part of me would embrace that I guess, but maybe I'm just being optimistic, as the idea of starting over likle that terrifies me, especially the wardrobe and makeup part of it all.
So to sum up, While I have had some thoughts of stopping, I haven't. Every time it nears the time for my next dose, I'm looking forward to it in a sense. I started all of this believing I could stop at any time I wanted.
I just wish I had a better sense as to whether or not I was doing the right thing.
Myranda, everything you are going through completely resonates with me. One of the things that has helped me not to feel overwhelmed by the whole thing is to take one day at a time and just stop thinking about "everything that I have to do to be the woman I dream about" and just go with the flow. We have a lot of things to learn and do but if we keep thinking about it instead of just taking small steps and one day at a time, we will be extremely stressed out.
Just popping in to say that I've been feeling quite a bit down of late. Not sure if it is the Holidays, the fact that it has been a year since my wife left, or the fact that I'm just beginning to acknowledge/think that maybe HRT was not the answer or tool i thought it might be. Or if it is a change in the functioning downstairs. Or some combination of any of this.
When I started, I told myself, 6-months before I will start to re-evaluate things, and that point is coming up quickly.
The one thing I do know for sure, is that I love my wife more than anything. And whatever it is that lead me to start this journey ruined that relationship.
Quote from: Myranda on October 30, 2017, 08:25:00 PM
The good news is that I definitely do not feel any worse. This is becoming more and more clear to me everyday. When I started, one of the major reason I did so was to be on the look out for the changes in me emotionally and mentally. Did I feel better about myself, did I like the new me etc...So this lack of change has really left me scratching me head. Does it mean I am really of 2-genders, neither male nor female? That may say more about me that I can admit or know right now. But I do know that I was hoping for more clarity about the mental and emotional portion of all of this at this point.
Because of my age, I started HT with what I thought were pretty low expectations. I, too, thought that there would be more of a "mental" impact. There wasn't, and hasn't been much of, if any changes in that regard in a year. While I would never say that others haven't really experienced what they reported, I think in some regards that aspect may be a little overblown. It certainly caused me to expect "something" when I should have been expecting "nothing."
Physically, I guess I'll have to say HT exceeded my very low expectations. Changes haven't been dramatic, of course, but they're noticeable and pleasing to me.
I wouldn't presume to advise you on your relationship or your direction. I will say that you'll find a lot of confirmation bias on this site. I do hope that you're able to find the clarity and strength to do what's right for you.
All the best,
--AshleyP
Quote from: AshleyP on November 28, 2017, 04:11:46 PM
... I will say that you'll find a lot of confirmation bias on this site. I do hope that you're able to find the clarity and strength to do what's right for you.
All the best,
--AshleyP
Confirmation can certainly help cloud things up a bit.
I'm closer to stopping this journey, but there is still something holding me back, and I cannot get a grasp on what that might be. I'm already a month over what I had told myself, would be a good stopping point. I consciously chalk that up to my GD being unavailable to see me in December due to her own personal situation. And now when I look at my tracker, I;'m starting to think, what is another 5 months.
And a large part of me is like, why can't a develop up top a bit faster/more? I know that is a bit unreasonable to expect/ But hast being said there is some definite shape and protrusion, but at the same time it is spread out so its not too noticable, but I do know that there is a decent amount of new volume there that wasn't there 7 months ago.
Hi Myranda,
I was scrolling down this thread to get to the newer posts when I saw a post with my now middle name on it. I stopped to see if it was really one on mine and yes it was. I checked the dates on your post where the quote of mine was a saw it was back in October and mine was last March. I read them and was pleased to seen that you related with my post and that it seemed to help a little. For that I am glad because that is what we try to do here.
Then I finished scrolling to your post for today. I am sorry to here now that you are still having trouble deciding that this is right for you and that you are close to deciding to stop. That made me a little sad for you because you know I have gone through that uncertainty myself. Those second thoughts and those same doubts. But then I see signs oh hope for you. Signs that you like what is happening and even a bit of excitement for what is yet to come in your wish that it would hurry up. You like your developing breasts and so did I. When I would undress in the bathroom and see myself in the mirror I could not help but smile and say to myself "Those are breasts, and they are mine!" I still marvel at them at times and yes I want them to grow more too. And then there is that bit of anticipation when you have another dose coming up. That is you wanting to continue as is the thinking what's another five months.
I finally got past that "Am I doing the right thing" It took awhile yes but then I looked back over each step I had taken and in spite of the questioning and fear I still took it and it was the right thing for me to do. Every one of them. I suspect that if you reflected on you own steps you will think they all were good for you. Everyone of then.
I'm sure some of your indecision is what starting did for you relationship with your wife and yes that is a terrible thing to have happen. I have no doubt you love your wife. It did not come into play in my journey at least not directly because I ruined my relationship with mine and my daughter over 23 years ago. I thought I had resolved the problems with my daughter long ago but no I lost her again when I came out to her. With her I lost my five grandchildren. Now both events haunt me. So I too know something about loss. But it has not stopped me from continuing my transition. Why? Because stopping would not change a thing and i would still have these problems haunting me. I have nothing to gain by stopping and maybe I will come out of my depression that events current and past has put me into. I know all of my decisions about transition have been right for me. I think they probably have for you too.
Hugs,
Laurie
Thank you Laurie
The last few days or so, I've really started to notice my breasts. They've been a bit itchy, but nothing that I would come close to call distracting. And they have definitely looked a bit puffy too.
This morning while I in the shower, I really felt them "in the way" with my upper arms as I was washing. While I don't have an exact measurement of my aereolas from before I started HRT, I'm pretty sure they have doubled in size at this point. (7 months 3 weeks). If and when I touch my nipples they definitely feel different in a very good way, no longer just kind of there. They are not so much more reactive. They become hard to the touch and are so deliciously sensitive. In short they remind me a lot of a woman's nipples and how they felt under my fingers tips. This could be come a "problem!"
So I'm still very much on the fence. I'm not sure I "Want" to stop, but I may need to very brief for reasons that I won't get into here. When I saw my doctor 2 weeks ago, my Estradiol level was 260pg/mL) (of 100-200pg/mL), but I had taken my big morning dose about 2.3-3 hrs before and it took a long time to dissolve and get absorbed so it might have been artificially high. My GD put int an order for repeat lab work, so we can double check my levels. My T is 80ng/dL) and their target range is less than 55, but I stopped the Spiro for a few different reasons in December as I was thinking of stopping HRT.
But while I was there talking to my GD, I asked about Progesterone, and their clinic doesn't have a real protocol for prescribing Progesterone, but I talked to her about it and she said she would be happy to prescribe it if I wanted, but due to potential complication from it they would not prescribe it long term, probably only a couple years, no biggie there to me.
So today I picked up my Progesterone prescription today and they have me cycling it, to mimic natal female bodies (can I say how many days a month? If so I can edit this post to put that it in here). I'll probably start that this weekend wit the beginning of the new month or may be wait until next week or some of the reasons I hinted at up above).
I'm just in a really odd spot right now. A part of me wants to stop and reassess and a part of me wants to keep going until the 1 year point and then reassess. I don't mind the changes I'm seeing in my body and am very encouraged by them, but mentally, I don't feel any different. Maybe another wy to describe it, because I think there may be some other types of mental changes, would be that I'm not opposed to it, but I'm not unopposed to it either. A lot of my reasons for wanting to stop are purely personal and related to personal events of the past year or so... NNot to mention the sense of "terror" I feel about actually fully transitioning. It is not so much the idea of transtioning that scares me, it is all the other baggage that goes along with it. I'm fairly comfortable with the ways thgins are but there is a seed of doubt there and something, a little voice ,that every now and then gets really loud sand kind of possessive that says, yes, you want this because you need this. And I guess what really scares me about that is that is is a rather sudden awakening of sorts. I'm definitely not the typical transgender person who knew from an early age and forceably surpressed it until it was unbearable.
Ok that is enough rambling for now...
Hi Myranda,
If you are having second thoughts because of reasons external to you, like people's opinions or what might happen, I think it's completely normal. It happened to me as well and I had the opportunity to travel and be by myself which helped me realize I did want to transition. Maybe you just need some alone time? Without all the background noise.
Quote from: Myranda on January 30, 2018, 05:16:45 PMBut while I was there talking to my GD, I asked about Progesterone, and their clinic doesn't have a real protocol for prescribing Progesterone, but I talked to her about it and she said she would be happy to prescribe it if I wanted, but due to potential complication from it they would not prescribe it long term, probably only a couple years, no biggie there to me.
What complications? Doctors sometimes confuse progesterone with other progestins and believe the same complications noted with other progestins will happen with progesterone which studies have shown not to be the case and attributed it to different molecular structures. I think it is important to discuss this point with doctors.
For instance, progesterone appears to have no effect on coagulation, no deleterious effects on the cardiovascular system and does not appear to increase the risk of breast cancer. Women produce progesterone all through their adult years (several decades) until menopause, sometimes in very high amounts during pregnancy. So why should we only take it for a few years is what intrigues me and something you could bring up next time you see the doctor.
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on January 31, 2018, 07:43:16 AM
Hi Myranda,
If you are having second thoughts because of reasons external to you, like people's opinions or what might happen, I think it's completely normal. It happened to me as well and I had the opportunity to travel and be by myself which helped me realize I did want to transition. Maybe you just need some alone time? Without all the background noise.
Thanks Nicki, that is a
part of it and I agree that I'm sure that kind of time would help me sort things out. Sadly that kind of time alone is not in my cards at the moment just now.
I just wanted to post a quick update here, nothing major, but Over the last few days, I have really noticed that I now have real honest to god breasts. While they are not large by any stretch of the imagination, they are a bit noticeable.. When just wearing a tee-shirt, my nipples are more than a bit noticeable in how they project and protrude through my tee-shirt. Looking straight down my chest I can really see my cleavage becoming quite noticeable to me. And last night I slept in a cami-style top and it really accentuated them and confirmed for me that they are in fact there now. There is even a very prominent gap across my sternum at the center of the cami proving that my perceived cleave is in fact quite real.
Quote from: Myranda on February 11, 2018, 08:16:08 AM
I just wanted to post a quick update here, nothing major, but Over the last few days, I have really noticed that I now have real honest to god breasts. While they are not large by any stretch of the imagination, they are a bit noticeable.. When just wearing a tee-shirt, my nipples are more than a bit noticeable in how they project and protrude through my tee-shirt. Looking straight down my chest I can really see my cleavage becoming quite noticeable to me. And last night I slept in a cami-style top and it really accentuated them and confirmed for me that they are in fact there now. There is even a very prominent gap across my sternum at the center of the cami proving that my perceived cleave is in fact quite real.
That's great! :)
Just a quick little update...
For the better part of the last 2 weeks or so, I wake up every morning and my breast are quite achy. It really started about half-way through my last round of my monthly Progesterone. I measured myself, and I'm now a solidly somewhere between 42.5 and 43 inches overbust.
Yesterday I noticed that there was a definite shape to them visible while wearing a regular button down shirt, but not so noticeable that anyone would see them if they didn't know better. Bu it was clear to me for sure. Also they are extremely noticeable to me when wearing the right kind of t-shirt, and they really seem to clean to my t-shirts after I get out of the shower or have been active. Tuesday night I was playing dodge ball and when I went to change out of my sweaty gym clothes afterwards, and I put on a new clean and dry t-shirt, it was like they could not be contained and hidden. I both loved it and was like Holy, >-bleeped-<, what is going on?!!!
;D ;D ;D :D :D :D Great times!
So It's been a long while since I posted here. Some updates.
AT the end of April, things were going great with my HRT, I liked the way I was feeling, I was really starting to notice positive changes in my body and I was quite happy.
And then I met someone, a woman, who I was instantly drawn too. Things were going great between us and when things were starting to get intimate, I had a bit of a freak out like what am I doing when it didn't want to work properly. I mean it worked, but not reliably and not always when I was with her. She was and is super understanding about that. I hadn't told her about my HRT. Which I know is not the best way to start out, especially given how my marriage ended.
But I listened to the "little voice" inside me and after speaking with my GD, I stopped HRT, Estradial and Progesterone cold. I had even took the last of my Clomid (about 2 weeks worth) that I had to reboost my T. And things were great and still are with my girlfriend, but for the last 2 weeks or so, something has been missing and I'm really being drawn back into wanting to get back on my Estrogen and continue on with my journey. I cannot believe how strong this need is, or how fast it came on.
At my weekly appointment I started to talk to my therapist about this again last week. IT was odd, I felt so comfortable with myself the past year when I was on Estradial. Every day I took it like clockwork, hell I was even looking forward to taking it everyday. I Sure I wasn't developing as fast as I would have preferred (no one does), and some of that is my own doing (I had stopped with the AA at around 4 months, and I had opted not to up my does after a couple of months). Now I'm really considering talking to my GD about it again, and looking into upping my dose, to help my Estradial really work. One of the big things my therapist and I talked about and need to continue discussing is living in the "in between" at least for right now. I think one of the biggest things holding me back is the whole Starting over and "learning new skills and wardrobe."I've toyed with the idea of growing out my hair and have tried on a few occassions, but it is really hard for me to get back an awkward stage with my hair where it just annoys the heck out of me, because it just does its own thing. More than anything I think it is a lot of fear tht is holding me back, that and the unknown.
AAs don't always make a big difference in a transgender's life but in those who it does, the difference is night and day. I have seen others on the site who have attempted this little experiment and unfortunately unless you meet the right partner, it comes down to a very difficult decision. Can you live with the old you or will you need to take a big risk going forward into a life you have had no experience with. You're doing in right by keeping your therapist involved as that will give you another view point and help you see what your having difficulty seeing. Good luck in your journey where ever it may take you.
Dena, are you saying some Transwoman develop jsut fine with no real changes to their T?
I guess was I was trying to address in my post from earlier this morning, is that over the last few weeks, I've come back to again questioning myself and who I am and how I view my own self. Once again, I no longer feel comfortable identifying myself as completely male, but I don't know if I am ready to comfortably view myself as female either. As a whole I am able to tolerate my life the way it is, but something about myself and the way I look and the way my body feels to me is just off and like there is something wrong and missing from it. I'm able to tolerate my male part, so I wouldn't say that I am disgusted by it or any of a number of other "popular" emotions many transwoman have about it, but I don't take any great comfort in it being there. And while I'm not completely sold on the idea of SRS or GCS though I'm, I've had numerous dreams over the years where something happened to me that mangled it beyond "salvaging" and I've been comfortable in those situations in having it removed and undergoing SRS. a large part of me feels that being unburdened by it sexually would put me at ease with myself, especially in the sense that a small part of me feels that as long as it is there I need to be a certain way. But I'm, also paralyzed in how to deal with it and doing anything about it. I want to be more open and expressive, but I feel isolated and alone nd most of all stuck.
And yes I, clearly have other psychological issues that I am also trying to work through with my therapist. So I appologize if these last few posts have been scattered and hectic and crazy sounding. I'm sure I probably come across as one who is just trolling the internet. This past spring I had nearly convinced myself that I thought I wanted to embark on this journey because of my other issues that were exasperated by my toxic relationship(s), but now that I have found someone who is not toxic, I find that many of these thoughts and emotions have come bubbling back to the surface once more, and perhaps stronger. Especially after we have had some difficult conversations related to my ex.
I am saying in a MTF testosterone often is the primary cause of dysphoria. Eliminating Testosterone can result in a reduction in dysphoria in as little as a few days and often within a couple of weeks. It doesn't work that way for everybody and some need RLE to take the edge off. It appears that AA are at least part of the solution for your dysphoria.
Dena, I'm not so sure it is a sensitivity oto Testosterone, so much as a lack of sex hormone, and especially Estrogen right now.
Some people seem to be comfortable with estradiol alone but I have seen more dramatic changes in people when their birth hormone is blocked. In my case, I was on Premarin at what would be considered a transition dosage. I didn't have a blocker because this was long before blockers where used in our treatment. The dysphoria was still bad after starting Premarin and it was surgery that really made a big difference as it was the first time I was free of Testosterone.
In those days we didn't make the connection that testosterone was a major portion of the problem. It's different for FTMs because their testosterone dosage is high enough to effective block estrogen production. MTFs can block testosterone production with estrogen but it's more difficult and requires injections or pellets to produce and maintain sufficiently high levels.
Our levels were never tested like they are today so the lack of feedback meant some of us were probably over dosed and most of us were probably under dosed. HRT has come a long way and I have learn a lot about modern HRT off this site.
As I have mentioned a couple of months ago, I stopped my MtF HRT, as I was beginning to have doubts. What I'm not sure that I talked about is that those doubts and some other developments in my life lead me to resume my Testopel treatment after begin of estrogen for a couple of months. So after having the pellets implanted 3 weeks ago, I really began to regret that decision and feel like I had made the wrong choice and that something was "just missing" after about 2 weeks. So for the last week or so, I have been feeling a bit off and "incomplete." It hit me really hard when my estrogen prescription came up for auto refill and the pharmacy let me know that it was ready for pick up. So now I feel just sorta stuck, as I need to let the pellets run their course before I can presumably resume taking my estrogen and progesterone.
When I started this journey, I wasn't really sure so I told myself: "6-months. See how you feel about things after 6-months." Well the six months came and went, and it never really occurred to me. As I was approaching the 1-year point it started to dawn on me, and like I said, I had some other positive developments in my life around that time as well. So here I am basically back to where I was 18 months ago, eagerly and impatiently waiting until I can start taking estrogen.
And of course both my GD and therapist are on vacation this week to boot.
So a couple of of quick observations and 1 minor interesting thing happened yesterday.
1) After I showered yesterday I was standing in front of the large bathroom mirror, and I was amazed at how relatively large my breasts looked, and especially my nipples. I mean I'm barely a full A cup, but I was surprised is all especially since I have been off for nearly 3 months.
2) It was hot yesterday and very muggy, so the AC was working pretty hard in my office. For a good hour at one point, I was getting the most wonderful tingly chills in my nipples, something that I was experiencing over the winter when it was super cold out.
3) And finally, it hit me really bad/hard last night just how much I miss being on my estrogen. I really wish I could just start taking it again and that I had not gotten spooked back in May when things were not functioning after I had started this new relationship.
I am so tired of this ping ponging and waxing and waning roller coaster ride of my gender identity.
So it has been a good while since I last posted, I think it was towards the end of the summer. I started another round of Testosterone pellets a month ago because I was much more "normal" as my T level began to return to my normal levels of less than 200ng/dL and things in my personal life improved.
At the end of August or the beginning of September when my T levels were really high (for me) I could wait for my treatment course to end, so I could start back up on Estrogen and Progesterone again. So in short T is definitely not helping and is not the answer for me.
Well my T is back up again, and for the last two weeks, all I can think about is being back on Estrogen and I am having some long lasting period of dysphoria and wishing my body was much more feminine and that I could explore that side of me more.
It also sucks that where I live on the Cape is so far away from any Transgender support groups. And even though I work in Boston, my work schedule and my commute make it really hard for me to stay in the City and attend one because I am so tired at the end of my work day.
I wish I could figure this thing out.
It has been a rough Holiday season, but as crappy as it has been, I've come to accept a few things and am determined to restart my HRT regime. I have been in contact with my GD and will be calling their office tomorrow to schedule an appointment to resume my transition.
Part of this is due to the stresses of my relationship with my girlfriend over that fall and winter, and a huge part of it has been this nagging voice that has been getting louder and louder and significantly harder to ignore. my regular therapist is going out on maternity leave at the end of the month, and when meeting with other therapists, one of them picked up on my gender identity issue with practically no input from me. That was a huge factor in my decision to start going to see this therapist in the interim, and if I am honest with myself has helped me come to more peace with this side of me.
When I go see my GD later this month, I am determined to picked up where I left off and up my Spiro dose to start to get the results I need to see and feel to help put myself at ease.
Two quick updates:
1) Got my appointment with my GD for tomorrow morning after my regular therapy session
2) Met with my new therapist this morning and had a great session and focused quite a bit on my gender issues. And I am really looking forward to continuing that discussion with them.
Just got back from meeting with my GD this morning.
As of today I am back on my HRT regimen. I am pretty much picking back up right where I left off. I will start my T blockers next month when my current Testopel course has run it course, so that we can evaluate my T levels on the Spiro from my normal historical levels.
My mind is already at ease. And I'm pretty excited.
So last Wednesday I posted that I was back on my HRT regimen. It was about a 6-month break in things, but I swear that after 2 full days on Estrogen again, I could feel some soreness in my chest and breasts and itchiness in my nipples. At first I thought it was just my imagination or wishful thinking, but it has persisted, and this morning, my breasts (if you can call them that yet) felt fuller when I cupped them with my opposite hand with my forearm underneath the breast on that side.
Other than that I feel great. My mind is has calmed back down, and am no longer doubting myself or wondering if I am making the right decision or the wrong one by not being on HRT.
But aside from the positives I feel from being back on Estrogen I am feeling a bit down and extremely bored. I've been out of work now since December 20th, and I don't know when I'll be going back to work. Not being allowed to go to work is making me feel even more isolated than I already felt after the events of the past couple of years since I first started coming here. Wow, has it already been 2 years? (ok it's been about 18 months, I just looked). In short, I'm going stir crazy sitting at home alone, not really wanting to go out to try save money to get through this political nightmare that has taken my life hostage.
Anyway, I'm glad the forums are back up so I have a safe place to go and put some of this stuff down and get it out between my therapy sessions.
God, why can this community and segment of society be so vicious to itself?
In another thread, I posted a short response without a ton of details or scientific study information that summed up what I understood to be the answer to the original poster's question, adding some information about my own experience.
In return, someone responded accusing me DIYing my treatment and all but accusing me of being a troll, or at the very least not really transgender.
The simple answer is I am not sure what exactly I am and I'm scared about what this all means. But a part of me feels better when I have Estrogen in my system. But honestly, I'm afraid that people think I'm a fake or something. I have noticed that people are reading this thread but are not commenting on it. I'm sure it is just my insecurities and fear getting the best of me, but doubt can be a powerful thing to try and overcome, especially when you come to some kind of realization or understanding of yourself in relation to this subject much later in life.
But wow, that response felt so vicious that I'm crushed and to think that I woke feeling great about the day ahead of me.
I should add, that I think the reason why that response cut so deep is because it goes straight to when my ex-wife and her family accused me repeatedly of lying to and betraying her for the entire length of our relationship, which then somehow justified their treatment, emotional, pyschologicaly and legally of me since we separated.
Myranda,
You will find that there a few who will make posts like the one you referred to. I generally skip over those and move on to the next. It is not worth stressing over people who make assumptions and "know" everything and what is best for everyone else. As long as you and your doctor are happy, that is all that matters. Best of luck to you!
~Mindy
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Thanks Mindy. I feel better about things now, and I didn't necessarily mean this community here at Susan's place, but more the whole LGBT and specifically the Transgender community as a whole.
I understand. I have noticed the same thing from the community at large. It seems being transgender isn't enough to be accepted by some. If you have different political or religious beliefs you might find yourself on the receiving end of some negative attention. I will say instances of that have been sparse here. I just avoid threads with topics that might cause such negative behavior.
Anyway, I'm glad that you're feeling better now. This is truly and exciting journey. There will no doubt be resistance, bigotry and hate directed towards me and other as we walk this path, but it's better than the depression, low self esteem and self doubt I have lived with all my life.
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Myranda,
I have been following your thread, and I feel like I can relate to you. I too do not experience some of the same intense dysphoria that some others do. For example, I feel my genitalia physically gets in the way, but I do not feel strongly about GRS at this point. My view is also shaped by my age and because that I am in the very early stages of my journey.
Given that, I, nor you, are any less the women that we feel we are. Be who you are knowing this is a journey.
I am excited for you, and I am eager to follow your progress. Reach out if you want to talk.
Gwen
Gwen, thank you for reaching out. I am glad that some of my story can be related to that is very reassuring.
And Mindy, that you again. your words were quite comforting and helped put my mind at ease.
I was getting ready to get in the shower this morning and looking in the mirror and I could have sworn that my breasts looked a bit bigger or fuller. So before I getting in the shower, I took out my measuring tape and it seems that I have gained an inch across my bust line since I restarted HRT.
So it's been just shy of 30-days since I restarted Estrogen. And so far, I have not regretted that choice one bit. When I had met with my GD back in January we had decided that it was ok to restart both Estrogen and PRogesterone at my previous dosages right away. I was at the tail end of my Testosterone treatment and had discussed with my GD that while I wanted to restart Spirolactone, that I thought it might be better to wait until the T treatment was fullky out of my system, so that we could compare its effects on my and monitor my blood work based in comparison to my more natural T Levels.
Well having been on Testopel for 8 months in February my body had adjusted to it so it was taking a bit longer for it to leave my system and a month ago my T Levels were still in the 500s, when they are normally in the low 200s, and at that point in my previous dosing they were back down to the low 300s.
But yesterday I went and got my blood work done for my GD and I am jsut waiting on my results. I sent them a message to let them know that I h ad gotten the lab done and that I was looking forward to restarting Spiro and really wanted to examine the effects of HRT on me mentally and emotionally when my E levels are in the normal Female ranges and my T levels are either in the normal female ranges or closer to 0. And of course my GD is out of the office according to their automatic reply, so now I need to wait even longer... But at least I am on Estrogen and that has helped a lot already and I feel like I am making progress or at least going in the right directions.
Good news, my GD got my results and got back to me this morning and put in my prescription for Spirolactone again, and even upped the dose from what I was on previously. I go back for follow-up lab work in 2 months. My GD said they thought my Estradiol serum levels were a little high and wants to check those again in 2 months. Currently it is 282pg/ml (Reference range: < OR = 39; I assume that is for normal males, but she didn't indicate what the normal femal range should be.). MY base line T serum levels are 291 ng/dL (Reference for male 250-827), which I think is still a little high for me normally. They would like to see my T below 55.
Even Better news, I was working form home today and just wearing a light cotton tee-shirt and at one point while walking around the house I looked down at my chest for some reason, and could really see my breasts and nipples protruding through my shirt. Just took my measurements, 41inches under and a solid 43inches across my breasts. They don't look like they have grown much since I last measured, but the numbers don't lie, nor does their "sudden" appearance under my shirt.
Wow, so I have been back on Spironolactone for a day and a half now, and while I know it is a diuretic, but I didn't expect those types of effects to kick in so soon. I don't remember having to pee all the time when I was first on it 2 years ago when I first started HRT, so maybe it is the increased dosage that my doctor has me on. But wow! Hopefully it will help knock me T down quicker and really get my estrogen to kick in.
Other than I feel great.
Just a quick follow up, had a 3-month check up with my GD this morning, still waiting on my lab results, but based upon how I am feeling, I think they will be pretty good.
Surprisingly, they asked if I wanted to switch from cycling my Progesterone to taking it daily. I opted to do so to at least see how I feel over the course of a couple of months. In looking back over the last 4 months sine I have been back on HRT , including Progesterone, during the days I was cycling it on, I didn't necessarily notice anything different about my mood with the exception of some minor increase in my tearing up if I heard something sad or that otherwise tugged at me emotionally, good or bad. But that could be due to a lot of other things and I don't know if it was just confined to the days I was cycling on. I never kept a journal about that. So we wil l see how it goes taking it every day. I'm pretty excited about that.
So my labs came back this morning. Current bloodwork is from 4/10/19 and last blood work was 3/1/19.
Testosterone level is 92. Previously 291. ng/dL
Estradiol level is 116. Previously 282 pg/mL
It makes sense that my T level is so much lower, as I have been back on Spiro for just over a month.
But my E dosage has not changed and my levels are significantly lower. Last month i think I had my blood work done around 5 hours after my morning dose. Yesterday was pretty close to 6 hours, just over.
I feel like I grew a 1/2 inch last night. Yesterday I measured and I was 41 under, 42.5 over, and today while I was brushing my teeth, they looked noticably large and more defined, so I measured, and I was 41 under and 43 over, with very distinct shape and contour