Sex change regret comes when you understand the surgery did not make
you a female or change your DNA gender/sex.
Recently I came across this website http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ (http://www.sexchangeregret.com/)
where appearently de-transitioned Walt Heyer promotes formentioned postulate
and his book.
Contrary to what you may think, male-to-female sex change surgery does not
include cutting off the penis or removing the scrotum tissue. The bad boy "Snoopy"
remains attached, turned inside out.
He also goes on, telling that karyotype will remain the sam i.e. XY.He concludes with
statement that there is no evidence sex-change is justified, or that it improves lifes
of people with GID; not mentionig any alternative treatment.
Your opinion...
The kindest thing I could say is that he is a crackpot.
One of the reasons for extensive counseling and therapy is identify those with GID. A person *can* game the system and not be honest with themselves or their therapists and get the letters necessary for SRS.
Approximately 1 in 1500 have regrets about their SRS. Which makes SRS the most successful surgery to address the dysphoria of gender.
One of the things therapy is designed to communicate to the candidate is that they do not become female. If a person thinks anything else they they are sadly misinformed. Also the other primary purpose of therapy is being able to deal with your place in society as your chosen gender, and all the issues that surround it.
In none of the things that his website alluded to was the purpose of therapy in the process. And just the few individuals who complained that SRS did not make them female. And that it didn't change their DNA. duh!
This book was written for the fundie religious zealots who are looking for more "scientific" proof that SRS is against gods will. No amount of quoting out of context will change the fact that *thousands* of transsexuals (both male and female which he doesn't cover) lead happy and health lives following SRS.
-Sandy(perhaps crackpot was too kind...)
What do you believe?
QuoteWhat do you believe?
I believe he had regrets and went back to being who he probably should have been in the first place. Like most people he wants to place all his regrets in the hands of psychologists, surgeons and therapists, anyone other than himself, instead of realizing that he could have made these decisions for himself, long ago, had he given himself any thought at all.
"Know thyself" remains up-to-date advice in any age.
Nichole
Quote"There will be another incarnation. It'll have to be something different and shocking."
Quote from: Mari on May 04, 2008, 09:16:41 AM
... Your opinion ...
From the article at: http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2007-10-11/news/
>-bleeped-<-regret/print
Quote
"... As a teenager, Berke started acting out. "We were using slingshots and breakin' windows and lighting Dumpsters on fire," he says, grinning slightly as he puffs a Camel Light ... He went to Wright State University in Ohio, where he tried LSD. He loved it ...
Berke began neglecting his studies in theater tech to hang out with punk rockers, trip on acid, and go to shows. Then he dropped out completely. In 1985, his parents divorced. Berke took $10,000 that had been put away for him, packed his Datsun 310 hatchback, bought a trailer for his dirt bike, and drove straight to San Francisco, where he got a job as a roadie for the Sea Hags, a metal band. He also became a heroin addict. After the band's bass player died of an overdose, Berke moved to Mission Beach in San Diego to clean himself up.
He ended up living on the street and becoming addicted to crystal meth.
"I got absolutely out of my mind," he remembers.
He moved to L.A., hoping again for a cleaner lifestyle and a job in the music industry. He lived on the streets of South Central for a while, then moved under a bridge in Hollywood, where he became part of a street gang, the Hollywood Trolls. By now, he was in his late 20s, having spent almost a decade on drugs."
My opinion: Maybe not the best person to be giving others advice on how to handle their life's problems.
Quote from: Nichole on May 04, 2008, 11:36:21 AM
I believe he had regrets and went back to being who he probably should have been in the first place. Like most people he wants to place all his regrets in the hands of psychologists, surgeons and therapists, anyone other than himself, instead of realizing that he could have made these decisions for himself, long ago, had he given himself any thought at all.
"Know thyself" remains up-to-date advice in any age.
Nichole
Nicole: Very well put.
nope
transition or surgery to not make a man into a woman
its impossible.
completely, utterly, impossible.
But if you are female to start with, and by some twist of fate had to suffer a male body, they do fix that problem.
Sure you will still have xy... but who can tell that? and are xy women men suddently? is women? no....
does not being able to have childrene make you a man? if so, a lot of natal women are actually men!
this dude is making excuses for his own mistake....
he though he could escape his crap life by swapping sex
nobody changes sex.
EVER.
R >:D
If that is the true story, I don't see where at any point this person was able to make a full and informed decision. Neither acid, smack or crank are very good for reason. And where does a roadie for a pretty minor band (once described like this: Their manager once stated, "there's only so far you can get with three junkies and one alcoholic,", or someone living under a bridge have that money anyway? The Sea Hags only did one record and one tour, and that guy died in like 90 or 91, so almost a couple of decades ago.
I guess I should point out that my previous comment was regarding a Michael/Michelle Berke, referred to in Walt Heyer's blog (at http://waltheyer.vox.com/) , not Walt Heyer himself.
Looking around (doing a Google search) I finally found some more more in-depth information on Walt Heyer here:
http://www.freeatlastjsu.org/sermon.php?sid=193
Quote
...Here is yet another testimony of the destructive power of child abuse. My father used a hardwood floor plank for enforcement of discipline, and my mother always called me bad names that she shouted at the top of her lungs. My grandmother enjoyed dressing me as a female. When my uncle found out my grandmother had cross-dressed me, he began to tease me and sexually abuse me. All this took place before I was ten years old. To cope with the abuse, I developed a second personality named Crystal who would escape the abuse.
But the consequences of this twisted confusion would come thirty-three years later when I was diagnosed as a transsexual. To eliminate the twisted confusion, sex change surgery would be required. I wanted the confusion that had tormented me all my life to go away, so in 1983 the surgery was performed. Walt Heyer, male, became Laura Jensen, female. That is when the mess started to get so big that I lost my career, my wife, my children, and my friends.
My inability to get hold of the twisted confusion was complicated by the fact that I was a high-functioning alcoholic who also used cocaine to cope. In 1986 as the female personality Laura Jensen, I entered an alcohol recovery home in San Mateo. Four months of in-home treatment has worked to provide over eight years of recovery now.
But the surgery changing my sex did not eliminate the twisted confusion. And it was not until 1991, eight years after the surgery, that a new diagnosis of my case was made. Over the six months beginning on July 21, seven prominent Ph.D.s and psychiatric doctors agreed that I was not nor had I ever been a transsexual, but had always suffered from multiple personality disorder. As an abused child I had developed sixteen fragmented personalities, some female and some male. But one thing was for sure: the very destructive transsexual surgery was in error...
Ok, like I said before, although Walt was not as messed up as Mark/Michelle, Walt Heyer is not the best person to be telling others what to do either
I am sorry that Walt Heyer suffered such abuse as a young boy. But his life story (like everyone else's) is unique, and not all TS women have this kind of history.
These stories just point out that some people's situations are very complex. Still that does not mean that they can translate their own situations and apparent solutions over to anyone who transitions from male to female...
An excellent YouTube response is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eUCtri40xk
thats excelent?
its a babbling aussie transwoman talking about the same thing 3 times, covering everything in this topic....
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on May 04, 2008, 11:44:49 AM
nope
transition or surgery to not make a man into a woman
its impossible.
completely, utterly, impossible.
I have to agree with Rachael on this point. If there is anyone here who believes that the surgery will make you a woman (Or man for those who it applies to) I would recommend they should seriously reconsider their own personal situations. The same applies to those who think that HRT will make you a woman.
Steph
Quote
Sex change regret comes when you understand the surgery did not make
you a female or change your DNA gender/sex.
That is quite simply the stupidest statement on this subject I've ever heard. ::)
Like we didn't know that going in? Big fat
duh. Does this person think everyone is as ignorant as they were? No wonder they're expressing regret. They went into it with completely the wrong idea about it. Fools like this give the rest of us a bad image.
You have all made some very good posts regarding this subject.
I too, ufortunately, have a sex change regret though.
I regret that I did not have the courage to do this 30 years ago!!!! Having a body and soul that match is a great influence on my getting up to get started each and every day. I hope everyone that wants to go that far on the genderline gets to experience it. It isn't for everyone, however. Many times we forget this.
It sounds to me like this person bypassed the standards of care. Sure, we all THINK we know what is best for us and who we are...but the standards are there for a reason. Occasionally, there are some that think life on the other side would be better...however, if you have underlying issues before transition and surgery, being transgendered in a hateful world is just going to add to the list of problems.
This person had substance abuse problems and a history of being unstable. If this history was shown to a good gender therapist, they would have never been sent forward for grs. It might even be possible that they went to a surgeon that did not require any documentation of GID.
It is absurd to think that the surgery is going to make us a man or a woman. We are a man or a woman long before we get to surgery.
I spent the last 47 years in the wrong body, so much that getting up and getting dressed in clothing that did not fit literally and figuratively was torture. Leaving the house knowing I was not me, trying so hard to be what society and biology said I was.
Finally realizing I had options was like a light bulb coming on in my dark closet, and I could see a way to be myself!! What's the worst thing that can happen if I transition? That I spend the rest of my life (poss 47 years) in thw wrong body?? I'm already there now. Can't be any worse than this.
I'm on vacation and just buying tickets to attractions can be torture, because they want your NAME. And I can't use my male name, because the next step is passing over the credit card which still bears my female name. When can I be just Jay??
Jay
Of course surgery doesn't change your chromosomes. Hello! And surgery doesn't result in a 'neutered condition'. Having a P**** is not neuter! ::) All the surgery does is take the tissue (which is the same tissue for both sexes) and reconfigure it to the arrangement it should've been in the first place.
Just a case of some freak who didn't know who he was and now thinks he has a story to tell. ::)
Really? Oh no, what am I going to do? I thought HRT and SRS had "made" me female & "changed" my chromosomes to XX. ::) Mr. Twilight Zone there doesn't even know the differences between genetic sex and gender identity. Duh! What a bunch of rubbish!
tink :icon_chick:
Sex change surgery is only a cosmetic procedure to make it look like a change was made, when in fact no female "parts" are used.
What the....? ??? Duh? Whoever thought otherwise?? ::) :o
For me it was an inside thing.
From the age of three when I remember my mom dressing me in little dresses and I had long hair; back in those days it was common for a mom to do that with her boy. But the thing is that I remembered that, never forget it.
When I began school, of course the hair got cut off but it still didn't make me different in my preferring playing house and dress up with the girl next door.
I have always been a sensitive kid and didn't get along with other boys. Well, even after I grew up I would play act being a girl in the privacy of my home when no one was around. I played a lot of fantasy games back then and was proficient at them as well.
When I was 47 I was suicidal. It felt to me like I was being possessed by demons to the point it was either die or seek help. Back then I didn't know about transexuality and that there actually were therapists and shrinks that you could go see. I ended up going to speak to the clergy lady of the Anglican church where I was working as a support worker for street people. I was so scared and it was such a relief after I got it all off my chest and she didnt condemn me to eternity in hell. She assured me that everything was OK and she recommended I talk about it to my shrink.
I did and now here it is 10 years later I am sitting here comfortable to be congruent between my inner self and body, to be as female as science can help me to be. I am woman in every sense of the word. I suffered long enough and fought long enough to deserve to be who I am. You see, it's got nothing to do with the physical body or the DNA, XY or anything else. It is what you believe yourself to be in your mind, yes, the mind, like in the brain.
Cindy
Posted on: May 04, 2008, 06:35:57 PM
Hi Tink, you summed it up in two and a half sentences to my nearly a flippin page long. Well anyway that were my feelings on it.
Tanks Tink. ;D
Cindy
Quote from: buttercup on May 04, 2008, 06:29:11 PM
Sex change surgery is only a cosmetic procedure to make it look like a change was made, when in fact no female "parts" are used.
Ya know, that's just... creepy. What, was Walmart out of "Female Parts" that day? I mean... what's that supposed to mean? Surgeons have an inventory of "female parts" on their shelves?
~Kate~
Quote from: Hypatia on May 04, 2008, 02:20:42 PM
Like we didn't know that going in? Big fat duh. Does this person think everyone is as ignorant as they were? No wonder they're expressing regret. They went into it with completely the wrong idea about it. Fools like this give the rest of us a bad image.
And this is exactly why I started this topic. From time to time articles in, what could
be considered relevant, newspaper surface questioning weather SRS is important, or
appropriate treatment. They are uaually backed up with statements like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc) from a know-it-all guy
who puts the blame on surgeon for "mutilating" him. :o
Also, it is very often to hear that they started questioning their sex-change after they
joined a churh of some kind, that later attempted to cure their "illness" and have them
return to former gender.
......
Thing that recently came to my mind is: Is there really anything in your opinion that can
be done for transgendered/transsexed that is not the traditional sex-change procedure?
They all say sex-change is wrong but never mention any alternative route (to running a
website promoting their own mistake, or writing a book about your failed life)
Quote from: Kassandra on May 04, 2008, 09:30:07 AMApproximately 1 in 1500 have regrets about their SRS. Which makes SRS the most successful surgery to address the dysphoria of gender.
SRS has one of the highest efficacy rates for ANY medical procedure period.
And I agree he is a crackpot. ::)
On a more serious note I have read a thread on another board of a girl who was not happy after surgery. She's been full-time like 3.5 years, had FFS and BAS, and loves her life, but regrets having SRS. And this doesn't appear to be a transient issue as her surgery was about 18 months ago now. Regrets are rare, but they do happen.
Posted on: May 05, 2008, 07:01:36 AM
Quote from: Rachael on May 04, 2008, 11:44:49 AMnobody changes sex.
EVER.
R >:D
It would be more correct to say nobody can change their chromosomes. And that's okay because we all know that chromosomes do NOT determine gender. You can change your sex (phenotype).
These people honestly are nuts. There's some glitch in their brain, or their so blinded by their need to invalidate what they see as an immoral process that they can't see straight. All they seem to care about are definitions. What "is" female and what isn't. I don't know where to even begin arguing the point, as their assumptions of what we're arguing are just so... weird.
My mother said something similar to me early on, when she said she'd heard, "sex changes don't work." News to me of course, sitting there as Kate, successfully transitioned socially and living for most intents and purposes as a female. But... hey, my chromosomes are still xy, so I guess "it didn't work?"
Well OK then... I can't imagine how cool it'd be then if my transition had worked! Are you guys holding out on me? Did I miss something and I'm deluding myself? You mean *THIS* is what failure is like?
Hey, fine by me.
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on May 05, 2008, 08:29:11 AM
Well OK then... I can't imagine how cool it'd be then if my transition had worked! Are you guys holding out on me? Did I miss something and I'm deluding myself?
~Kate~
I keep telling you ladies to keep up with the Transsexual Agenda Meetings!!! Kate, you obviously missed the meeting where we issued the karyotype altering paste. Apply twice a day and *poof!* you go from XY to XX!
Don't let the mundanes know, ok?
-Sandy
Quote from: Mari on May 05, 2008, 04:51:39 AM
Thing that recently came to my mind is: Is there really anything in your opinion that can
be done for transgendered/transsexed that is not the traditional sex-change procedure?
Yes, another solution or "cure" would be to change society so that ALL people are accepted for exactly who they are, regardless of gender identity and expression, and can live safely anywhere on the continuum that is right for them, with or without surgery as they choose. ;D
Of course, that's not the answer they want to hear. In their belief system, we can only be cured by Jesus. Sorry, that ain't gonna happen anytime soon for me. ::)
Zythyra
Wont work.... well will for some, but not for others.
Personally, i could not live in a male body, even if i was totally accepted as a female.
its wrong for me
i hate it
it caused me pain....
the ONLY solution was transition.... The only other way to end the pain is death....
R >:D
Quote from: Mari on May 05, 2008, 04:51:39 AM
......
Thing that recently came to my mind is: Is there really anything in your opinion that can
be done for transgendered/transsexed that is not the traditional sex-change procedure?
They all say sex-change is wrong but never mention any alternative route (to running a
website promoting their own mistake, or writing a book about your failed life)
The only other "cure" that was put forth in past decades by health care professionals is "deprogramming". Which usually consist of shock and avoidance therapy combined with support from family, friends and church. Much like was opined for curing homosexuality.
Since "obviously" it was a choice and not a birth condition, then whatever caused the homosexual or transsexual to CHOOSE to be that way could be changed by therapy. Of course the individual would have to WANT to change for it to be completely effective.
Effectiveness was questionable and in the long run completely abandoned by health care providers as being absolutely the WRONG thing to do. Goddess help those poor souls who were "cured"...
The fundie religious right have continued to bray that deprogramming can cure gayness, transsexuality and baldness. They, of course, have never submitted themselves to such a treatment to cure stupidity. As they say beauty is skin deep, but stupidity is to the bone!
-Sandy
/rant on
I have nothing but contempt for people who go all the way with transition and SRS only to find later that they didn't really want it and pin the blame on someone else; suing the medical establishment and making it way harder (ie more hoops) for those of us who actually know what we are doing with our lives like (hello!) adults. It sickens me to watch them prostitute themselves for sympathy at the hands of fundies who care nothing for them, only for the validation their failure represents.
What a waste of blood.
/rant off
There's people who find out transition is not for them and face up to the consequences of their choices, coming out wiser for the whole ordeal. I know people like this and I'm glad to know them, regardless of whether they transitioned or not.
Quote from: Kassandra on May 05, 2008, 09:05:52 AM
Quote from: Mari on May 05, 2008, 04:51:39 AM
......
Thing that recently came to my mind is: Is there really anything in your opinion that can
be done for transgendered/transsexed that is not the traditional sex-change procedure?
They all say sex-change is wrong but never mention any alternative route (to running a
website promoting their own mistake, or writing a book about your failed life)
The only other "cure" that was put forth in past decades by health care professionals is "deprogramming". Which usually consist of shock and avoidance therapy combined with support from family, friends and church. Much like was opined for curing homosexuality.
Since "obviously" it was a choice and not a birth condition, then whatever caused the homosexual or transsexual to CHOOSE to be that way could be changed by therapy. Of course the individual would have to WANT to change for it to be completely effective.
Effectiveness was questionable and in the long run completely abandoned by health care providers as being absolutely the WRONG thing to do. Goddess help those poor souls who were "cured"...
The fundie religious right have continued to bray that deprogramming can cure gayness, transsexuality and baldness. They, of course, have never submitted themselves to such a treatment to cure stupidity. As they say beauty is skin deep, but stupidity is to the bone!
-Sandy
I believe that the therapists, or in some cases just one, Kenneth Zucker, PhD, of the Centre of Addiction and Mental Health at Clarke in Toronto, yes, that Clarke, currently promote and champion "Reparative Therapy," particularly for gay and trans teens. You know, where you get locked in a ward and go to 'groups' daily to be brow-beaten, made fun of and generally have it insisted that you are a crazy moron who cannot possibly have a happy life if you persist in such a delusional sense of self.
"Just renounce yourself and be male & straight and we will let you out of here if your parents agree and you can start making yourself that happy life that all heterosexual, cissexuals have as a matter of course."
And guess what the esteemed professor Zucker and his buddy Michael Bailey say? It WORKS like a charm. Seldom do any 12-year olds persist in these awfully obsessions to ruin their own lives and embarrass their parents and Prof. Zucker! Imagine that, most
prisoners patients take less than 3 weeks to wear down and reform into the very dreams they were supposed to have been when they were born.
Here's a Link (http://i%20believe%20it%20is%20known) that recounts some of Zucker's background, etc. And this one here at Susan's discusses what he's doing now (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,34371.msg231010.html#msg231010) as reported here. (http://www.psych.org/MainMenu/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2008NewsReleases/dsmwg.aspx%20http://www.psych.org/MainMenu/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2008NewsReleases/dsmwg.aspx)
This stuff REALLY works and is profitable as well!!
Ok, enough irony.
Nichole
Oka-a-a-ay...
There is a reasonable estimate that 1 in 2000~2500 males is a post-op MtF.
That's 60,000 post-ops in the U S and A.
Less than 1% strongly regret having had SRS, with up to 6%, depending on who you talk to, having mild regrets. Let's go with the 1% for this example.
1% of 60,000 is 600 intense regretters in the U S and A.
With an average of 4 transgenders on any given Jerry-Springer-like show, that's about 150 Transsexual Regret! shows, or about 3 a week for a year, give or take...
Karen
Quote from: Karen on May 05, 2008, 09:51:31 AM
Oka-a-a-ay...
There is a reasonable estimate that 1 in 2000~2500 males is a post-op MtF.
That's 60,000 post-ops in the U S and A.
Less than 1% strongly regret having had SRS, with up to 6%, depending on who you talk to, having mild regrets. Let's go with the 1% for this example.
1% of 60,000 is 600 intense regretters in the U S and A.
With an average of 4 transgenders on any given Jerry-Springer-like show, that's about 150 Transsexual Regret! shows, or about 3 a week for a year, give or take...
Karen
Anyone ever tell you that you have waaay too much time on your hands???
How about a 24/7 transsexual regret channel? Better still! A transsexual SATISFIED channel? I think those stories would be a lot more uplifting!
-Sandy
Quote from: Karen on May 05, 2008, 09:51:31 AM
With an average of 4 transgenders on any given Jerry-Springer-like show, that's about 150 Transsexual Regret! shows, or about 3 a week for a year, give or take...
And the rest of the weeks can be filled with 'trailer-park trannies,' 'sex-worker trannies,' 'trannies who steal
real men from
real women,' and other assorted trannie celebrities!!!
So, what's Springer gonna hire you as , Karen? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
QuoteBetter still! A transsexual SATISFIED channel? I think those stories would be a lot more uplifting!
O, Sandy!! I'm shocked at you, an ENTIRE channel, 24/7/365!!? Hasn't anyone clued you that Montel and Oprah with their twice a year shows have exhausted all the possibilities of 'uplifting' and 'satisifed' trans people?
N~
Ummm... so maybe that up there was NOT enough irony after all!! >:D >:D
Quote from: Kassandra on May 05, 2008, 09:05:52 AMThe fundie religious right have continued to bray that deprogramming can cure gayness, transsexuality and baldness. They, of course, have never submitted themselves to such a treatment to cure stupidity. As they say beauty is skin deep, but stupidity is to the bone!
Religion is a personal lifestyle choice!
I think we should all nominate Sandy to go on Oprah and set everyone straight.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Kristi on May 05, 2008, 10:25:24 AM
I think we should all nominate Sandy to go on Oprah and set everyone straight.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Maybe I have misunderstood her, but I was thinking that Sandy is not
straight! :laugh:
Quote from: Kassandra on May 05, 2008, 09:57:53 AM
Quote from: Karen on May 05, 2008, 09:51:31 AM
Oka-a-a-ay...
There is a reasonable estimate that 1 in 2000~2500 males is a post-op MtF.
That's 60,000 post-ops in the U S and A.
Less than 1% strongly regret having had SRS, with up to 6%, depending on who you talk to, having mild regrets. Let's go with the 1% for this example.
1% of 60,000 is 600 intense regretters in the U S and A.
With an average of 4 transgenders on any given Jerry-Springer-like show, that's about 150 Transsexual Regret! shows, or about 3 a week for a year, give or take...
Karen
Anyone ever tell you that you have waaay too much time on your hands???
How about a 24/7 transsexual regret channel? Better still! A transsexual SATISFIED channel? I think those stories would be a lot more uplifting!
-Sandy
I agree, Sandy and that was a very interesting post, Karen.
Quote from: Karen on May 05, 2008, 09:51:31 AM
1% of 60,000 is 600 intense regretters in the U S and A.
With an average of 4 transgenders on any given Jerry-Springer-like show, that's about 150 Transsexual Regret! shows, or about 3 a week for a year, give or take...
Karen
Darn, the things I miss by not watching TV.... ::)
Z
Quote from: Nichole on May 05, 2008, 10:40:15 AM
Quote from: Kristi on May 05, 2008, 10:25:24 AM
I think we should all nominate Sandy to go on Oprah and set everyone straight.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Maybe I have misunderstood her, but I was thinking that Sandy is not straight! :laugh:
And proud of it! ;D :D ;D :D
-Sandy
Hi Kate
QuoteYa know, that's just... creepy. What, was Walmart out of "Female Parts" that day? I mean... what's that supposed to mean? Surgeons have an inventory of "female parts" on their shelves?
~Kate~
"Hee, hee, hee." I laughed till I nearly pee, peed myself on the part about Walmart.
Honny please don't put to much weight to this. We are as woman as we feel we are, it's not a stupid biological thing, it goes much deeper then that and you know that. Some people probably do make a mistake but it must be an awful few of them. Why in tarnation would they want to go through all this if they weren't 100 convinced of who they were to begin with? Unless it was because of some ulterior motive, like how much money and publicity does this bird thinks he is going to get out of it, see. Same as with that character from the (Australia) sorry, a we while back. Good God how could any one be that greedy.
I know who I am and I would die first before giving away the only me that I respected and loved out of my entire life. This little lady has more compassion for others around her then most would care to even think of showing.
Cindy
Quote from: Nichole on May 05, 2008, 09:44:33 AM
I believe that the therapists, or in some cases just one, Kenneth Zucker, PhD, of the Centre of Addiction and Mental Health at Clarke in Toronto, yes, that Clarke, currently promote and champion "Reparative Therapy," particularly for gay and trans teens. You know, where you get locked in a ward and go to 'groups' daily to be brow-beaten, made fun of and generally have it insisted that you are a crazy moron who cannot possibly have a happy life if you persist in such a delusional sense of self.
"Just renounce yourself and be male & straight and we will let you out of here if your parents agree and you can start making yourself that happy life that all heterosexual, cissexuals have as a matter of course."
And guess what the esteemed professor Zucker and his buddy Michael Bailey say? It WORKS like a charm. Seldom do any 12-year olds persist in these awfully obsessions to ruin their own lives and embarrass their parents and Prof. Zucker! Imagine that, most prisoners patients take less than 3 weeks to wear down and reform into the very dreams they were supposed to have been when they were born.
Here's a Link (http://i%20believe%20it%20is%20known) that recounts some of Zucker's background, etc. And this one here at Susan's discusses what he's doing now (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,34371.msg231010.html#msg231010) as reported here. (http://www.psych.org/MainMenu/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2008NewsReleases/dsmwg.aspx%20http://www.psych.org/MainMenu/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2008NewsReleases/dsmwg.aspx)
This stuff REALLY works and is profitable as well!!
Ok, enough irony.
Nichole
This is something that should be considered Illegal, immoral and completely an unethical practice.
I believe if the person really is gay or trans etc etc- This can in the long-term cause more difficulites and depression later in life. It's basically brain-washing the brain. They assault people to the point that they give up and let other people go against their will. I think they make your sub-consious mind believe you are a straight and hetero. This may last and the person may feel happy but this treatment will begin fading off because your subconscious mind needs to continously be commanded to act a certian way because it's the brain going against it's own nature! It's telling the brain to live a lie and be happy at the sametime even though it's going against itself, which may feel like everything is normal but when your life has ended it's journey, you WILL feel something missing.
If you want to live a lie and let other people choose your fate- Then go ahead, go to this "mental
prison hospital for faggots", In the end you will be a failure in life because you pleased others but not yourself. You must please others to be successful BUT violating your own rights will never insure your happiness. Without happiness, nobody can be successful.
PS. You must attend those
>-bleeped-< and queer curing classes regulary b/c your mind needs continous brain-washing and motivating influence to last.
GOOD LUCK and have fun in your prison cell,
jus jokin :P
Quote from: Mari on May 05, 2008, 04:51:39 AM
And this is exactly why I started this topic. From time to time articles in, what could
be considered relevant, newspaper surface questioning weather SRS is important, or
appropriate treatment. They are uaually backed up with statements like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc) from a know-it-all guy
who puts the blame on surgeon for "mutilating" him. :o
Also, it is very often to hear that they started questioning their sex-change after they
joined a churh of some kind, that later attempted to cure their "illness" and have them
return to former gender.
Omg she was beautiful...what was the complaint???
Quote from: redfish on May 06, 2008, 09:28:21 AM
Has anyone else noticed how he looks like Hugh Jackman?
I can see a little bit of wolverine in him lol. Omg I just can't believe..so beautiful....pretty...feminine...and then switched....now living as an amputee. Oh puhleeeezzzzzz!!
something a lot of m2fs dont seem to notice is, NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A WOMAN... female is not some higher level of existence. its just one sex,....
if he was so confused and deluded to transition, his bad... the therapist >-bleeped-<ed up. Hes clearly a bloke, so let him be one, and live with his mistake, like a lot of people here, he probably used the old tricks of convincing the evil therapist by doing as he prepared to get diagnosed, not how he felt.
it happened before, it will happen again.
why do we care what some crybaby idiot says anyway?
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on May 06, 2008, 10:59:17 AM
why do we care what some crybaby idiot says anyway?
Well, I guess the fear is that the anti-TS crowd will use stories like this to prove that
"sex changes don't work," making it more difficult for those that follow to find the proper care.
But like you said, it's happened before, and it'll happen again. The emphasis should be on it showing how transition and SRS isn't for everyone, and not that the concept in *general* is flawed.
~Kate~
Quote from: Rachael on May 06, 2008, 10:59:17 AM
... like a lot of people here, he probably used the old tricks of convincing the evil therapist by doing as he prepared to get diagnosed, not how he felt.
Like SOME people here, you appear to be intent on making someone else angry. Now, what's the good of that?
You are 'real.' I think we all get that, except for perhaps yourself.
Please keep your rocks in your hands, or on the ground, and don't hurl them at others. Each of us has to live with herself or himself, not anyone else, nor do we have anyone's life but our own to live.
Throwing stones at others doesn't make me better than them, more real than they are or any more a 'girl.'
Thanks, so much for taking care of that, Rach.
Nichole
What? SRS doesn't change my DNA? Damn!
--natalie >:D
Just because he was so delusional as to believe it would make him genetically female does not mean the general trans community things the same way. I for one have never been under such an assumption.
He is just pissed off, and misery loves company, so he is trying to tear down everyone else.
How accepted were the SOC when Heyer had his surgery? I don't know the exact date of the surgery, but it was 1988 or earlier. The SOC was less than a decade old at that point; was it not as widely known or used as it is today? If not, then it wouldn't be as surprising that Heyer slipped through the cracks. He even quotes his therapist on his website, saying dealing with drug/alcohol issues need to be dealt with before gender issues.
That being said, I think Heyer is displaying two attitudes that I see all too often. "Not my fault" and "If it's bad for me, it's bad for everyone". It's not *his* fault he had the surgery; it the therapist's fault. And now he needs to protect us so the therapist's can't convince us to have SRS.
Val
Quote from: Nichole on May 06, 2008, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: Rachael on May 06, 2008, 10:59:17 AM
... like a lot of people here, he probably used the old tricks of convincing the evil therapist by doing as he prepared to get diagnosed, not how he felt.
Like SOME people here, you appear to be intent on making someone else angry. Now, what's the good of that?
You are 'real.' I think we all get that, except for perhaps yourself.
Please keep your rocks in your hands, or on the ground, and don't hurl them at others. Each of us has to live with herself or himself, not anyone else, nor do we have anyone's life but our own to live.
Throwing stones at others doesn't make me better than them, more real than they are or any more a 'girl.'
Thanks, so much for taking care of that, Rach.
Nichole
Come on Nichole, Rachael made one of the best and most pertinent comments on this thread .... why diss her ?
Laura x
Laura,
That was no diss. It was a friendly suggestion. No one says she cannot have opinions about others. Nor have I said that to you. But, discretion is sometimes better for board moderation. Please take the point.
And if one's self-concept and validation is intact she doesn't need to down another. She knows she's who she is, regardless.
Thanks,
N~
Quote from: Lori on May 06, 2008, 07:07:46 AM
Omg she was beautiful...what was the complaint???
She didn't like being on the bottom during sex. :)
Seriously... The explaination is in the Video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc
Even though the interviewer tell Alan Finch that as Helen "You were an extrordinarily good looking woman", The voice over in the video says that she got married but "Neither of them could get past the fact that she used to be a man."
More details at the Boy Interrupted program transcript here: http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s937472.htm
But here are what I would say are the main clues:
"Over the next several years I had a few relationships with men, but they were quite short-lived with the exception of one particular man that I met, and after a couple of years of being together ... I started to feel really guilty. And I said, "The way that you see me today is not how I've always been." And he said, "What do you mean?" And then I just said, "Well, I was actually born a boy." And he just looked at me and he just.. .he couldn't believe it at first. He was very compassionate, and then he just said, "My God, why did you do that to yourself?" He said, "You must have been really nice-looking," he said, "as a guy." .. But from that moment, the relationship changed. We then had separate bedrooms, but we continued living together. And he said that he loved me, and we would always be friends. Anatomically, I was never really a woman. ... It's just rearranging flesh, but the tissue that's used is still male tissue. I never was able to have any orgasm or sexual pleasure."Reading up on Alan Finch's story (at http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/30/1062194756832.html), it seems he failed the psychological test the first time, then studied up on how to give the "right" answers, and assed the second time around and got SRS at 21.
In the video Alan Finch says the responsibility is the surgeon who cut into him... "At the end of the day the choice is with the man holding the scalpel." Not his for lying.
So here we have someone who by their own admission cannot be trusted to make the right decision for themselves, can't be trusted to tell the truth, and who blames others for his mistakes.
At the bottom of the "Boy Interrupted" story is the line: "Alan is about to undergo partial reconstruction surgery. He hopes to from a long-term relationship in the future."
Good luck with that, Alan...
Quote from: Wendy Kahr on May 07, 2008, 01:22:29 AM
Quote from: Lori on May 06, 2008, 07:07:46 AM
Omg she was beautiful...what was the complaint???
She didn't like being on the bottom during sex. :)
Seriously... The explaination is in the Video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc
Even though the interviewer tell Alan Finch that as Helen "You were an extrordinarily good looking woman", The voice over in the video says that she got married but "Neither of them could get past the fact that she used to be a man."
More details at the Boy Interrupted program transcript here: http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s937472.htm
But here are what I would say are the main clues:
"Over the next several years I had a few relationships with men, but they were quite short-lived with the exception of one particular man that I met, and after a couple of years of being together ... I started to feel really guilty. And I said, "The way that you see me today is not how I've always been." And he said, "What do you mean?" And then I just said, "Well, I was actually born a boy." And he just looked at me and he just.. .he couldn't believe it at first. He was very compassionate, and then he just said, "My God, why did you do that to yourself?" He said, "You must have been really nice-looking," he said, "as a guy." .. But from that moment, the relationship changed. We then had separate bedrooms, but we continued living together. And he said that he loved me, and we would always be friends. Anatomically, I was never really a woman. ... It's just rearranging flesh, but the tissue that's used is still male tissue. I never was able to have any orgasm or sexual pleasure."
Reading up on Alan Finch's story (at http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/30/1062194756832.html), it seems he failed the psychological test the first time, then studied up on how to give the "right" answers, and assed the second time around and got SRS at 21.
In the video Alan Finch says the responsibility is the surgeon who cut into him... "At the end of the day the choice is with the man holding the scalpel." Not his for lying.
So here we have someone who by their own admission cannot be trusted to make the right decision for themselves, can't be trusted to tell the truth, and who blames others for his mistakes.
At the bottom of the "Boy Interrupted" story is the line: "Alan is about to undergo partial reconstruction surgery. He hopes to from a long-term relationship in the future."
Good luck with that, Alan...
He makes me feel bad about myself. I don't like it. I don't like being lied to and belittled.
Besides, it is not about what it literally is (rearranged flesh), it is about how it feels, both physically and emotionally.
No, this goes much deeper, like in the depth of our very soul. It's much more then just rearranging the flesh on your body. It order to begin the process, or to kick start the outside of your body to start reshaping it, like feminise or masculinize it as closely as possible to the desired gender with the aid of HRT. There is more than just physical changes as a result, I believe it goes to the depth of heart and soul itself. The final stage is to conform body with the *mind* with the aid of HRT. Followed sometime later by SRS, the final step that will make you as congruent or complete a female/male gender as medical science can acomplish.
There seems to be one little crucial observation back 8 years ago when I began full time, and that there was a strong indication that it was in the TS's brain, the weiring was different. But it appears that today for some reason there is nothing they would wish more then to discount or discredit or sweep this information under the carpet, *It is all in the mind!!* The mind resides within the brain. We only use something like about 7% of the brain and as for another statistic which I am not certain if they haven't already swept that under the carpet yet either, and that is the theory that most TS's have an above average intelligence and IQ. I don't know, but it seems I have already observed this exhibited among the young-uns in this group.
I been a woman for 8 years now and I ain't about to go run and hide under a rock. I am who I am and as for other people they respond to me as the person I present. A woman. I do not have any regrets or do I have a guilty conscience. Once your there, there is no going back, just the thought of going back petrifies me with fear. Goodness gracious I can't understand how that..... person did it. *Don't lie to your therapist, tell him/her the truth always!!!
Ok, personally I think this man/woman is as fake as a three dollar bill. That's enough from me. Cindy picks up her soap box and runs into the bushes to hide under her rock.
Cindy
Quote
"It's just rearranging flesh, but the tissue that's used is still male tissue. I never was able to have any orgasm or sexual pleasure."
That's really kind of fascinating, the idea that our very skin is naturally gendered and will forever hold the truth of our binaried sex system. I know it's really too much to hope for, but maybe one day people will be a bit better versed in biology. Genital tissue is homologous between the "sexes," right? Has my liberal education led me astray? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but transsexual or not, the only physical difference I can think of between "male" and "female" genitals is their configuration, no?
Lia
Quote from: cindybc on May 07, 2008, 04:50:54 AMThe mind resides within the brain.
Exactly. This fact can't be stressed often enough. René Descartes is long dead, let his mind/body dichotomy die out too, finally. We've seen a lot of advances in brain science since his day, but people hold onto that habit of thinking... unthinkingly.
Hi Genovais, congratulations and I will send prayers that all goes well for you in six days. Just be happy, and at peace with who you truly believe and feel you are. Sending you some warm and fuzzies.
I am at peace with who I am.
Cindy
Thanks, Cindy! I'll try and keep up-to-date on the forums, I'm sure I'll be looking for ways to fill up my time while recuperating.
Lia
Quote from: Zythyra on May 05, 2008, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: Karen on May 05, 2008, 09:51:31 AM
1% of 60,000 is 600 intense regretters in the U S and A.
With an average of 4 transgenders on any given Jerry-Springer-like show, that's about 150 Transsexual Regret! shows, or about 3 a week for a year, give or take...
Karen
Darn, the things I miss by not watching TV.... ::)
Z
It seems that passive TV watching is a way to destroy any thought of the things that you experience through out the day. All those loose ends of thought improve your intellect. Constant sound and visual fog true thinking and happiness. Good books provide food for thought.
Quote from: lisagurl on May 12, 2008, 02:05:52 PM
Good books provide food for thought.
You enjoy 'good books,' Lisa? How dya feel about the Bible? My daddy always called that "The good book." >:D
Hi Genovais and Redfish just wanted to say congrats and I will send prayers that all will be well.
Cindy
Quote from: Nichole on May 12, 2008, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: lisagurl on May 12, 2008, 02:05:52 PM
Good books provide food for thought.
You enjoy 'good books,' Lisa? How dya feel about the Bible? My daddy always called that "The good book." >:D
It is a historic metaphor. Then again most novels have an under story. The unabridged Latin texts could prove very interesting. The translations are only as good as the translator. There is something poetic about the original writings. It sure is better that the screen play.
Quote from: redfish the posthuman on May 07, 2008, 05:24:07 PM
Quote from: cindybc on May 07, 2008, 04:50:54 AMThe mind resides within the brain.
Oh no, why did you have to open this can of worms? ;p
The mind/body problem really still isn't solved, even after all this time.
It's solved as far as I'm concerned. No brain=no mind. Consciousness isn't all in the mind--it's all in the
brain. More--throughout the wonderfully complex neural net of the whole body, in all its cellular interactions. In a sense it's the body as a whole where consciousness resides.
Are you a dualist then?
Can you show us that mind posited as an independent entity separate from the physical nervous system is anything more than prescientific mumbo jumbo?
Quote from: Hypatia on May 12, 2008, 07:46:03 PM
Quote from: redfish the posthuman on May 07, 2008, 05:24:07 PM
Quote from: cindybc on May 07, 2008, 04:50:54 AMThe mind resides within the brain.
Oh no, why did you have to open this can of worms? ;p
The mind/body problem really still isn't solved, even after all this time.
It's solved as far as I'm concerned. No brain=no mind. Consciousness isn't all in the mind--it's all in the brain. More--throughout the wonderfully complex neural net of the whole body, in all its cellular interactions. In a sense it's the body as a whole where consciousness resides.
Are you a dualist then?
Can you show us that mind posited as an independent entity separate from the physical nervous system is anything more than prescientific mumbo jumbo?
And I would say you haven't gone far enough, Hypatia, dear philosopher. Consciousness extends to outside the body as well.
Nichole
By what means?
Field.
A field of consciousness in which we partake, but do not do so alone. The field comprises other entities as well, including some that we perceive as 'inanimate.'
N~