Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I thought I'd update and share my 9 month experience on low dose HRT.
Due to miscellaneous reasons (career, marriage, sort of gender neutral identity with bias towards female), I don't forsee myself transitioning anytime in the near future, or ever.  For me, the cost to benefit of transition just isn't there for me at this time - if it weren't for my GID, most people would say I'm on a pretty good wicket.
This year, I decided to start low dose HRT for a few reasons:
1.  Possible improvement in emotional stability
2.  Reduce the level of gender dysphoria
3.  Prevent further recession of the hairline
4.  Prevent further development of male pattern body hair.  (I found as I was getting older, I was getting more body hair!!! :( )

Currently I'm on a combination of progynova/spironolactone, dosage is approximately half that of what one may possibly take to stimulate changes desired for transition.

What I've found happened to me are the following:
1.  Emotionally I feel more connected with myself and others around me.  Some people in my family have said I've become moody.  Libido has dropped significantly, and I have to same I'm pretty happy about that.  For those who really need to know, things still work downstairs, but production is way down.
2.  Gender dysphoria is more or less controlled.  I do not feel the desire to take things further at this point in time.
3.  Hairline has stabilised, and some small amounts of scalp hair at the corners have regrown.
4.  Body hair has started to thin slightly.
5.  Skin is no longer oily meaning far fewer breakouts.  My endo says that I look about 10 years younger than my actual age, but I think he says that to flatter everyone on HRT. ^^;

Even being on low dose E, there have been some feminising effects.
Breast growth has been minimal, they're AAA size, but still get sore as anything when they get hit, and movement is felt when I'm running.  Nipple diameter has increasted to about 4mm.  If I were to classify them on the Tanner scale, probably a 1 to early 2.
Some loss of upper body strength, but it's nothing that I can't compensate for by being smart about how I do things.  There has been some shrinkage in the deltoid and tricep muscles.  Fortunately for me the skin has followed, and they don't look like tuck shop lady's arms at this point. :P
Body fat has migrated downwards towards the thigh/buttock region.
My body weight continues to yo-yo, with a varience of about 6kg (13lbs) depending on diet and what I happen to be doing at the time.  I am not looking forward to eating too much over this coming holiday season.

Unwanted side effects:
1.  Hypotension - my blood pressure has varied from being perfect to being under.  Under = near fainting fits when I try to exert myself.  I've had bad salt cravings over the last few months.
2.  Thirstiness - hydration has become much more important, and if I'm dehydrated, I can develop cramps fairly easily.

Overall, I'm fairly happy with where I'm at emotionally right now regarding my GID.  I'm hoping that my changes will continue to be minimal at my current dosage, but I suspect I will probably need them reduced at some point.  At this point I would be happy to make the suggestion for those who are unsure about transitioning to consider low dose as a diagnostic aid or possibly symptomatic relief for GID.  I'm not saying that this is for everyone, but it's keeping me sane at this time.

Thanks so much for the update, super helpful for us slow boaters!

Sounds like an option for me (to start...)

Thanks for this- if you'd consider doing updates that would be much appreciated.  Am currently doing the same only behind you a bit and no spiro.  Haven't seen basically any physical changes but feel much better.

Hi Luna Nyan;

I too am on a low dose of Progynova only. No T blockers as when I had my Baseline Meds done my T was at very low levels. I have now been on E for  nearly 2 months. I must admit I feel much calmer, libido has dropped a bit, but I havent actually had any morning rises for nearly 20 years since my last transitioning episode.

I have noticed a very slight fat distribution, but my skin is defintely feeling softer.

On my breasts well I was already a Tanner Stage 4 from my previous 2 years on HRT (Estrogen & Progestrone), but on size I am only a standard A Cup. I have though noticed that my nipples have regained their erectness and they are starting to be more noticeable when I jog or run say for catching a tram.

I have had to start wearing baggy shirts again.


I se my endo in 3 weeks and I am expecting him to increase my dose. But we will wait and see.

Unlike some I dont feel now that I have to rush into things as I am focussing on getting my Upper Lip cleared with IPL.
Hugs

Thanks for the update! :-)

I've renamed this thread so that I can just post updates here rather than start a new thread everytime.

It's close enough to a year that I thought it'd be worth an update.  My regimen has continued to be a half dosage of Progynova & Spiro.

GID is still gone or could be considered under control.  I would say that I am in the middle so to speak and indifferent about my gender.  I could very easily see myself transitioning but for my circumstances, but I'm definitely not feeling desperate to do so.

Moods - I'm definitely still feeling more connected to my emotions, but not completely plugged in.   I can talk about sad events happening to people around me and can feel the tears building but stop them before anything really starts.  However, that's still a big change from my previous clinical detachment.  I'm still a sucker for emotional movies thought. =)

Physical changes:
1.  Weight gain - urgh.  2.2lbs (1kg) heavier.  It's definitely gone to the hips/thighs - a shopping trip or more exercise is on the list of things to do.
2.  Breasts - more glandular tissue has developed.  If I look at my chest area from certain angles, the "snoopy boob" look is starting to happen.  Not much change has happened in the nipple/areole region.  There's been sufficient growth that I have preference for darker, relatively loose clothing.
3.  Some changes in body hair - it is marginally finer and slower to grow.
4.  Hair/skin hasn't changed since last time, there has been no further advancement of scalp hair.
5.  Facial changes are noticable for those who are observant - one friend who hasn't seen me for a while has said my face looks "thinner".

The nitty gritty stuff:
1.  Blood pressure has stabilised back into normal ranges.
2.  E&T levels have been consistent and haven't changed in 3 months.  T levels are just below normal male range.
3.  All the other stuff (potassium, prolactin, etc etc) are within safe ranges.
4.  Hydration is critical - if I don't drink enough water, I will cramp very easily.

Something dangerous I've noticed:
It would be way too easy to just simply fiddle my dosages to a typical full transition regimen and say "hell with the consequences" - having seen my bloodwork on my current dosages for the last 9 months I know that a normal dosage regimen is likely to be safe (if I asked my endo he would agree).  To date, I haven't done so as I'm pretty happy where I'm at.  If anyone is going to go low dose, be aware that you have to be very disciplined with your approach or you could find yourself going down a path you didn't envisage.

My endo and I have agreed to fiddle with the dosages.  For the next few months, we're halving the spiro, and keeping the E dosage the same as rapid changes are not desired in my case.

Thanks for sharing the info. Can I ask how old you are?

Hi Luna Nyan;
As another person on a low dose here are my changes. I am just over my 3.5 months since starting HRT again. My GP started me on a low dose of Progynova per day no Spiro as my T levels were very low at under 8.0. My GP just increased my dose by half after my T levels dropped to 5.8, but with a target of under 2.0. He hopes with my increased regime I will get better results:

After 3 months here is my progress:
Moods: I My GID has dissipated largely as I feel  very relaxed about things. In fact I have become quite gentle in my actions. Some friends who only know my male self have noticed that I seem very relaxed these days and not so agressive (although I am a pretty calm person normally). I just watched an sad episode of Taggart (UK TV Show) and burst into tears at the end when Inspector Jardine got killled off. I also nearlu burst into tears at the office last week. For some reasaon (but not consciously by me) people have said I look more graceful when moving .

Physical changes
Weight: Unfortunately my weight loss regime has hit a bit of a brick wall gaining 2kgs. It has all gone onto my bottom and hips. Could be that I have been a bit slack on my exercise regime. This starts in earnest next week
Breasts: I was already a small B Ciup from before. Not much change to the Nipple or Aurolae, but some gain on the side of the breast tissue. I seem to be gaining volume at the side. Mind you they are defintly moving when I dont wear a bra, although  about 1 hour after I take my daily dose my nipples seem particularly semsitive
Body Hair: A very slight thinning on the legs, and hair on the back is growing much slower. Hair on the small of my back and on the cheelks of my bottom has largely dissapeared
Hair: I am growiing hair on my bald patch after 20 years . Its quite dramatic
Skin: Very soft and I am having to really moistiourise at a lot. My underarms seem to get very dry. Mind you these days I get them waxed.
Facial changes: very slight. Some have said my cheeks look fuller. I cannot see it though. Hair is defintkly weaker on the face as the IPL is working really well and I am only having to shave  once a week.

The Medical stuff
1. Same as you, drinking lots of water is critical. If I dont I get cramp in my legs and sometimes in my arms. Too much Caffe Latte has the same effect. Tea though seems fine.
But My blood pressure has gone haywire.  It was OK for the first 2 months but in Feb  went up dramatucally. I am now taking some blood pressure tablets to try to get it down. It seems to be working, but my exercise regime is working too. On the BP I jst bought the Apple IPad iHealth App and portable BP CCuff. Its great
2. Libido has almost gone
3. Nothing works below which is great and its getting smaller too and much easier to tuck.
4. on my T Level we are aiming for under 2.0 by April. My Doctor reckons when that is reached, feminzation should be a bit more dramatic

Hugs
JudithLynn

I haven't posted in a while, so here's an update.

My E dosage has remained constant for the last 6 months.

Month 12-15 tweaked spiro dose to half.
The glandular tissue in my moobs atrophied somewhat.  Libido went up, and stuff downstairs went too active for my liking.
15 month blood tests came back and funnily enough, E and T levels were the same in spite of the lowered spiro dose.  As some say, effects of spiro do not always directly correlate to T levels.  All other parameters were well within safe limits.  T levels have been pretty much constant at 8.something.

I talked with my endo and he gave me discretion regarding my dosages - basically a min/max dose range for my meds so long as I step up and down my doses correctly.  (basically anything from 1/4 to full dose).  15 months of HRT have established its safety in my case so there's wriggle room so to speak.

So for further self analysis, I went on dosages appropriate for transition for two months.  Mental outlook didn't change, I didn't suddenly feel the need to transition so higher dosages are not beneficial for me considering my aims, so I'm back on my original dosage.

Referring back to my previous posts, not much has changed in 6 months, perhaps some further migration of body fat downwards, further thinning of body hair, and very subtle facial changes.  Mentally, I'm in a happy place as far as GID is concerned and don't see myself taking things further.

My next endo appointment is in 6 months, but I'm pretty certain I'm in a steady state situation.

HRT affects everyone differently. I read at PubMed or Medline that some people become insensitive to estrogen when the dose is too high for them. In other words, low doses actually affect some people more than higher doses.

Hi Luna Ryan
Thanks for your update. I should give you mine.
It been nearly 10 months since I restarted on my HRT regime and I have been pretty constant, although occasionally I miss a days dosage (for various reasons) one of which I seem to be turning into quite a dithery female! I soon know though as if I miss more than a day my body gives me a reaction - like my right nipple hurts like hell and I get a headache. 1 hour though after I take my dosage (2 girly E pills) I am fine again. Its like getting a rush

I went to see my GP/endo back in May and he gave me the OK to increase my dosage to double my dose, but as I was about to take an 18 hour flight to Europe I decided to put the increase on hold until I arrived in Europe. In fact I then decided to stick with my original dosage as being away from him and my therapist at my European House whilst on paper looked 0k, I thought it might be better to wait till I was back in Australia. I then got back in late July early August and  am due to see my GP/Endo in late October. I know I have his OK to go to the increased dosage but as he indicated there is always a risk.  In fact I have decided though that with my regular E levels now being under 1.5, it might be better to get an implant pellet that's going to last me for 4-6 months (like my good friend Cindy).

Here is my update since March 2013: After 10 months here is my progress:

Moods: I feel  very relaxed about everything and some of my male friends  and colleagues have been nothing that I appear to be  very casual in things. I defintly don't feel that I need to be competitive at everything any longer and in fact whereas before if I was in a conversation and thought of something, I might interrupt to get a point over, I seem to rarely do that any longer. Also I have noticed consciously that when men are speaking around me or in conversations I seem to be feeling quite passive around them. I am not working at that it just sems to be happening.  My crying bouts seem to happen more often and I seem to burst into tears  more easily. I have also started to be more susceptible to male pheromones. Also some of the men that I work with seem to be treating me differently. My therapist reckons this is because with Estrogen being the dominant hormone in my body I will be giving a lot of female pheromones now  I have for many many years been jealous of how women looked, dressed  etc, but now I am really starting to notice men around me. Its difficult to tell though if my sexual attraction is changing, although my therapist said with the increased dosages of Estrogen in my overall body receptors I could start to completely re-wire so not to be afraid of it happening.

Some of the changes that had started in March are more noticeable in that I feel more gentle and graceful. This is being helped in my gradual  shape changes. See below.

One big thing is my GID seems to have gone. I am not in the least interested in Masturbation and my Libido sees to me to be at a record low.  Early morning rises have long gone and I am getting very tiny down there.


Physical changes
Weight: I haven't managed to shift the weight gain, up now by 3kgs. But It has all gone onto my bottom and hips. In fact my bottom is now noticeably rounder and my bottom/hips measurement has increased by 2".  I still don't seem to have the energy to get back onto my exercise regime and I find myself very tired by the end of the day. I am also feeling hungry a lot of the time.

Breasts: I am now a small C Cup with a lot of breast tissue at the side and especially in the mornings have a definite Pear shape to them with my nipples very pointed. My Areolae, are now quite large and very female in look and shape. I am these days wearing a bra all the time as I need to keep them from jiggling up and doewn with Shirts etc as they have become very obvious. So if I have to present as male its a tight sports bra.. Also although  about 1 hour after I take my daily dose my nipples seem particularly sensitive

Body Hair:  Hair has virtually disappeared in my lower legs and a very definitely thinning out on my upper legs. I had them waxed over 10 weeks ago and whereas normally the hairs would start being noticeable after 2-3 weeks, with some stubble, now its 8-10 weeks and then as they reappear they are very fine and almost not noticeable. Body hair on my tummy is thinning out but not by much . Hair on my back is also going and it needs another wax soon so I expect that will help it on its way. I have no hair now on my cheeks of my bottom, especially nice now as they are getting quite rounded. In fact I was wearing  male trousers last week - Ugh! and  when I went to do them up at the waist had a real struggle then split the seam on one thigh. I am definitely going to have to get some female slacks/jeans to wear with a women's shape bottoms in masculine mode!


Hair: I am growiing hair on my bald patch after 20 years . Its quite dramatic. Lots people are noticing, but unfortunately its a bit wispy
Skin: Very soft and I am having to really moistiourise at a lot.  In fact I moisturise morning and night now. My underarms seem to get very dry. Mind you these days I get them waxed. My legs, bottom thighs and arms are very silky soft. In fact I had a facial a couple of weeks ago and my beauty therapist was amazed by my complexion. I just wish I could get right of the facial hair more quickly.

Facial changes: A little more noticeable. Some have said my cheeks look fuller.

The Medical stuff
1. Same as you, drinking lots of water is critical. If I dont I get cramp in my legs and sometimes in my arms. Too much Caffe Latte has the same effect. Tea though seems fine. My blood pressure seems back to normal, but I expect it will increase again when I up my dosage next week.  The the Apple IPad iHealth App and portable Blood Pressure Cuff is fantastic working with the Iphone 4. The App also logs and tracks the readings
2. Libido is non existent
3. Nothing works below which is great and its getting smaller too and much easier to tuck. But I HAVE to sit down now to pee. This is good thing, but I have to remind myself when presenting in male mode not to use the stalls.
4. My T Level is under 1.5 by April. My Doctor reckons when that as soon as I double my dosage, feminzation should be a bit more dramatic


Physical:

-My nipples are very female in shape and size and always extended. They are periodically incredibly sensitive , but a little Elocon ointment smeared over the nipple and around the Areolae at night can help if the pain and itching gets too much. For me this really helps tremendously and the pain subsides quite rapidly. My breasts have begun to take shape too. My Endo said they are reacting very positively to the HRT and she is not sure that I will need implants. if things continue as they are. Personally I have always wanted a full cleavage, but nicely rounded C or a small D would do me very nicely. My mother was DD.

-My muscle mass has decreased a lot it has a more slender appearance now.
My arm strength has gone and I really struggle now to open tight bottles
-My skin is very soft, but can get dry very easily.


Mental: My emotions are much more evident now. I cry more easily. My sex drive has also decreased a fair bit too. Plus the best thing is that I feel so happy, a lot of the time, but I also go into a bit of a daze at times and am a lot more pensive.  I have also found that my reversing skills on the car have left me and when out and about especially at traffic lights I never miss a chance to check my lipstick or mascara in the mirror.

Movement:  Some female friends have noticed that I am becoming more graceful in my movements. I think it might be that my bodyweight positioning is changing with more rounded bottom and hips. For instance  wearing heels now my hips just seem to naturally sway. I am not consciously having to think about it. Also though if I am wearing my under-bust corset that sees to accentuate my movements

JudithLynn. Congratulations!! Your changes sound awesome. You also sound aware of the mental effects of HRT. When I was on HRT years ago, I noticed that sometimes I would accidentally speak in a more feminine way. My voice was not much higher, but I would suddenly vary my pitch a lot like girls. That happened without trying and I think my inner woman was just kind of breaking through. As an outward guy I would catch myself and go back to normal guy voice. It was surprising. Came out of the blue, like part of my brain already knew how to speak girlie. Has anything like that happened to you?  By the way, a co-worker would then mimic me, and that pointed out my suddenly girlie voice. Embarrassing. (but also amazing)

Thank you luna for posting this.  The low dose definitely seems like another possible option.

Time for an update.

It's now been 2 years since I started on low dose HRT - basically a half strength regimine of progynova and spiro.
Physical changes I've noted from my last post 6 months ago:
1.  I've gained 5kgs.  That's accumulated everywhere - gut, hips, buttocks.
2.  It's taken 2 years, but I have to say it's now far easier to gain weight and it now tends to stay on.
3.  Some upper body lean muscle loss has occurred.
4.  Definitely lower on energy and endurance.
5.  Skin translucency has definitely increased - subcutaneous veins are now quite visible.
6.  Things still work downstairs, it just takes longer and production is way down.
7.  Some minor breast growth, I'm somewhere between AA and A, but my chest barrel is wide enough that careful selection of clothing leaves it unnoticable.
8.  Body hair has thinned out.

Psychological:
1.  GID is gone -transition is not an overwhelming urge.
2.  I'm sort of indifferent to physical changes - I'm happy if they occur, but if they don't occur I'm not going to weep about it.
3.  Libido is way down.

Nitty gritty medical stuff:
1.  Hormone levels have been steady for 6 months running.
2.  Liver functions are fine.

At my last endo appointment two weeks ago, I told him I was sick of sucking on progynova like they were cough lozenges, so we've switched to the lowest dose pellet available.  We're expecting an increase my E levels and possible further feminisation.  Next recall will be in 3 months.  As expected, I have a small keloid formed over the pellet insertion site.

I too am on a very low dose, as low or lower than most of the "starting doses" that endos start someone on and move them up with. Low enough where I am spending my time cutting up single pills of Estrofem into halves.

The thing is, even before I added a very small dose of spiro (Which I am intending to replace since even at small doses it makes my BP too low) I had much stronger changes in the last 4 months. My A cup bra, now has trouble fitting due to cup size even, which was unexpected by me at such low doses.

This makes me wonder, how old are you? Is my much faster progress due to age perhaps, or am I just super sensitive to E? I wanted a very small dose because I wanted to have about a year before changes became obvious but, at times I am already struggling to keep changes hidden; I DO want to totally transition, I am just trying to save enough money so that when I do go full time, if employers freak out and fire me, I have a nice cushion to ride on and I can still afford some surgical procedures.This makes me a bit torn, as I love the physical changes, but I do worry a bit about the ramifications of moving my plans forward without proper savings.

I'm 3.5 months in on low dose E and finesteraide.

Hair getting much thicker and growing way faster.

Small amount of breast growth and nipples sore all the time.

I definitely feel more grounded and happy.

Face is definitely getting softer looking.  Skin definitely softer and the pores have gotten smaller.

I'm noticing that my sense of smell and taste changing as well.

Private parts definitely smaller which doesn't make me happy.  Also not working like it did. Not happy about that either.

My avatar pics is pre HRT so will have to take a few in another 3 months to compare.

Quote from: Hikari on March 21, 2014, 08:16:20 AM
This makes me wonder, how old are you? Is my much faster progress due to age perhaps, or am I just super sensitive to E?

I can't say much regarding your E sensitivity.  I've said on a few occasions that low dose is a bit of a calculated gamble.  You could get minimal change, and the GID goes away, or you end up blossoming way more than you expect.

I'm getting close to the wrong side of 40, and fit females on my mothers side are pretty much washboards in the chest department so I don't think I'm likely to develop much even on full HRT.  My T levels are sitting on the lowest part of average male range and that seems sufficient to allow me a higher dose of E than I would think would be advisable for someone with my treatment aims.

Quote from: luna nyan on March 21, 2014, 09:23:22 AM
I can't say much regarding your E sensitivity.  I've said on a few occasions that low dose is a bit of a calculated gamble.  You could get minimal change, and the GID goes away, or you end up blossoming way more than you expect.

I'm getting close to the wrong side of 40, and fit females on my mothers side are pretty much washboards in the chest department so I don't think I'm likely to develop much even on full HRT.  My T levels are sitting on the lowest part of average male range and that seems sufficient to allow me a higher dose of E than I would think would be advisable for someone with my treatment aims.

Ah, I see, perhaps my age is a factor then, since I am still in my 20s (for a little while at least :P ). And my mother was a 36DD as well so I suppose genetics may play a factor. What is interesting is that as I get more changes, I want more changes, so I guess this is a good thing.
Thanks for your reply, it is harder to find people on here on low doses for more than a month or two.

Thanks for maintaining this thread.  Its nice to see the experiences of other running out in front as a "sanity check".  My own are very similar, the differences more a testimate to the variability of people's reaction to even low dose HRT.

It's now been close to a month since my E implant went in and there are some changes worth reporting.
There is a definite palpable lump over where the implant was inserted, and the skin over the area is still somewhat red - my skin's poor healing ability rears its ugly head again. Some fibrous tissue has formed over the area, I'm hoping that it may dissipate over time.
Medication wise, my spiro dosage remains unchanged, but pellet is definitely causing more changes, which in my case I have mixed feelings about given my aims.

Notable changes:
1.  I'm definitely feeling more emotional on the implant.  Although I don't weep at the drop of a hat, I do feel closer to being on the edge of doing so.
2.  Although my nipples haven't increased in size, they're much firmer.
3.  Further breast tissue development is occurring - I had basically stalled for 6 months, but there's now new tenderness, and they are definitely fuller.  I feel indifferent to this change - I'm happy they're there, but the development isn't really what I was aiming for.
4.  I feel that I'm more prone to issues with my jaw joint compared to prior to HRT.  Previously, my night grinding was showing through wear on my teeth.
5.  I'm definitely bruising a lot more easily now.

My initial feeling about being on an implant for low dose is that I do like the fact that I'm down to only having to take spiro.  Not having to stick a tablet under my tongue for 5 minutes is a godsend.  The downside though, is that I now only have one control for moderating how much I feminise, and that's my spiro dose.  On the other hand, there are sufficient health reasons to be on a pellet that I may still decide to go ahead with a second one later on.

I am so glad you girls are maintaining this thread.  I am thinking this is what my current path will lead me to for at least the short term.  I am really hoping I can at least calm my mind down and anything else would just be a bonus as long as it was a small change.  I am seeing my therapist next week and may finally ask him what he thinks about this.  We really have not spoken to much about GID to this point as I was just trying to stabilize myself enough to function with other radical changes that had suddenly occurred in my life.  Thank you for sharing your own personal stories.

Time for another update!
I was originally going to post after I had my bloodworm results and seen my endo, but I've been making a habit of updating every 3-6 months so here it is.

So I've now had 3 months on the pellet, same dose of spiro as before, and there are a few changes to note.

Emotional - I am definitely feeling more emotional, and have been on the verge of tears on occasion.  I probably feel more comfortable talking to women than men - just can connect better.  Libido is pretty much non existent and I find I need emotional stimulus in order to assist arousal.

Physical

the moobs/boobs have grown.  Prolly getting very close to A cup, but the width of my chest cage tends to mask them somewhat.  Nipples and aereola haven't changed much.

I've gained some weight and it's hard to shift - I used to get away with either eating a little less or exercising and the weight would drop off, but now I need to do both it I want to lose weight.  There definite change in the shape of my hips and thighs.

Most certainly, I feel physically a lot more vulnerable - I've now noticed a drop in strength.  Some physical tasks are definitely harder now.

Body hair follicles have thinned significantly and come back at a slower rate.

As far as downstairs is concerned the flag can still be raised, but the troops have surrendered.  There is effectively zero production now, and there is definite testicular atrophy.

I will update again once I have seen my endo and bloodwork.  I like where I am emotionally, but I do have some concern about whether the amount of feminisation I'm getting may be one inch too far.

I saw my endo this week.
Since March, I have been on a progynova pellet, and taking spiro - same oral dose as previously.

The nitty gritty blood work results were E just a tad under 500, T at close to 0.5
All other blood work was in safe ranges.
That's the hard data out of the way.  My levels are effectively in the transition range, particularly the T.

Physical
1.  Weight gain - I am finding it hard to shift the weight gained.  This is because of:
2.  Lean muscle mass loss - I've definitely lost some bulk around the shoulders.
3.  Skin is more translucent, and I now bruise very easily.
4.  Pores on the face are finer.
5.  Nails keep breaking! >.<
6.  Moobs are now a cup.
7.  Fat distribution is basically everywhere... It's a bit of a mess.
8.  Leg hair is now fine and takes a while to regrow.

Mental

This is hard to quantify.  The dysphoria is mostly gone, it's more the occasional wishing to pursue things further that I have to hold in check. I'm far more connected to my emotions in recent months.

Libido is pretty much low now.  I've noticed now I am more stimulated by emotional stimuli than visual these days.

The pellets work well.   Almost too well.  My endo and I had a discussion about managing my dosages on pellet.

1.  The pellet I had was low to medium dose.  For those on low dose wanting to go on pellet, lower dosages are available, but it would mean 3 monthly replacement rather than 6.  As I heal poorly, I'm going to stay on the current dose for now.

2.  Spiro dose is medium, but my T is almost completely suppressed.  I have the option of dropping it altogether and starting it back up later.  An alternative is to consider progesterone pellets.  Other means are available, but not cost effective.

I'm going to sit tight for the next few months.  Seriously considering progesterone and dropping spiro altogether next time.  I'm sick of taking tablets.

As far as pellets. OK I'm not on low dose, but I react horribly to the implants, more the local than anything. I rub 1% corticosteroid cream over the site and that relieves the itch and pain.

Luna, I'm not too sure what the effect of the AAs would be for you anymore, it may be worth a conversation with your endo. depending of course on your desired effects. But your T should be quite low, at least free T.

I'm probably going to drop spiro completely.  But I'm going to taper it, otherwise funky things happen BP wise.  We did discuss it as I'm tiring of taking tabs every day - hence the consideration of progesterone pellet @ next appt.

My T is way low.  0.6 was the reading.  Bye bye spiro - I'm not going to miss your taste.

Quote from: luna nyan on July 31, 2014, 04:27:03 AM

5.  Nails keep breaking! >.<

Seriously considering progesterone and dropping spiro altogether next time.  I'm sick of taking tablets.

Progesterone may help with brittle nails.

Quote from: KayXo on July 31, 2014, 11:27:06 AM
Progesterone may help with brittle nails.

Keeping them short because I play piano would help too!  :P

Cindy - I get the occasional itch over the implant site as well.  Because it's a fibrous capsule around the implant, when my dermatographia plays up, the mast cells in the area join in as well.  I hit the loratadine (good old claratyne) when that happens.

I don't like steroids much - when I need to use them, I go straight for something heavier for a week and get it over and done with.

Quote from: luna nyan on August 01, 2014, 08:03:28 AM
I don't like steroids much

Aren't estrogen and progesterone sex steroids??  :P

Quote from: KayXo on August 01, 2014, 09:46:52 AM
Aren't estrogen and progesterone sex steroids??  :P

You know which type I meant!  :P

It lives!

Not much time to spend here, but I'll update.

At the 8 month mark - levels were: 350E 0.9T
I had tapered off my spiro about 2 months prior so in my situation, a high enough level of E is sufficient to pretty much suppress T completely.

I had the E pellet replaced, same dosage, but with a smaller package.  This time the incision was small enough that surgical tape was sufficient to stabilise things and I avoided having to remove a stitch later.  My endo and I discussed progesterone, agreed to give it a miss for now as apparently there's about a 10% rate of reaction to the progesterone pellet.  With my last blood test, it was probably not necessary anyway.

Changes have continued to be very slow and gradual and minimal as before.  I did get a male fail recently where someone thought I was a drag king, but that was more the exception than the norm.
Breasts are still tender, I've lost a bit of weight with exercise, and it seems that the fat is really starting to migrate downwards.

Luna,

Just found your discussion and I am very interested as I plan to also have low dosage HRT without fully transitioning, at least that is what I think right now.  The future may change!

Please continue providing information for as long as you can on major changes or medical visits.

I really appreciate your time and effort.

Emily

Thanks, Luna, for the information. Your post was suggested to us in response to my post on Low dosage HRT. Great to have your experiences to learn from and to aid in my planning, as i have my referral in place with an endo. I now have more info going into that session.

I'm glad that some people are still finding this thread to be of assistance.  Sometime when I update this thing, I feel as though I'm speaking into the aether.  I'm not here as often as before for multiple reasons, but will try to continue updating so long as there is interest.

Seeing that I'm posting I may as well update.

Since last post:

E levels are likely starting to peak.  I've had no blood work, but there are a few indicators:
1.  Increased emotional lability (I'm more likely to be testy, but hold it back well)
2.  Breast tenderness has increased again.

Physical changes
1.  I have to concede that fitted shirts are no longer a clothing option for me.  The girls are big enough to look like small moobs found on obese men, but I don't carry enough weight to have moobs...
2.  I've probably reached an andro presentation.

A few notes on my meds:
1.  Dosage has been the same, but the capsule is smaller compared to previous.
2.  As a result, a smaller incison was made, that didn't require suturing, only taping.  This agrees with my skin more - there has been less itching and scarring compared to last time.  I think this is something for people who scar easily to bear in mind.
3.  I've eliminated spiro altogether and in my personal situation, I suspect that my T levels are unlikely to recover unless I cease HRT for an extended period of time.  The usual implications for libido, virility, etc have occurred, but "function" remains under appropriate circumstances.  YMMV.
4.  Not much muscle mass has been lost since last update.

Quote from: luna nyan on January 03, 2015, 04:49:01 AM
I'm glad that some people are still finding this thread to be of assistance.  Sometime when I update this thing, I feel as though I'm speaking into the aether.  I'm not here as often as before for multiple reasons, but will try to continue updating so long as there is interest.

Hi Luna,

Please keep posting on this thread, I've been talking to my doctor about starting low dose.   I'm a little worried though that once I start down this road the desire for a full transition will be unstoppable.   Your experience with this approach is quite informative.  As you know, there's not a lot of information out there about low dose as a possible solution to Gender Dysphoria. 

Thank you for taking the time to do this,
Paige :)

Luna,

Thanks so much for your updates. I just subscribed to this thread after wading IslandGirl's post. I'm wanting to start low-dose E. Don't know when I'll get approval as I'm really very overweight. My urologist though did tell me that because I don't smoke I should be able to take E without issues. He said that smoking and taking E was a very bad combination. Anyway, thanks again. This thread is helping me get ready.


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Very cool to hear that even low doses have positive effects. we must all proceed at our own comfortable pace! ;)

Wow a lot of great information here. Thank you to all who have described their experiences on low dose HRT, as it has answered a lot of questions for me.

I've also found this thread quite helpful. I just started low dose the other day and reading your progress over the past few years is an excellent resource and answered a lot of questions I had up front. Definitely keep it going, it's especially interesting and valuable since it currently spans over two years.

Quote from: luna nyan on December 13, 2014, 09:25:42 PM
My endo and I discussed progesterone, agreed to give it a miss for now as apparently there's about a 10% rate of reaction to the progesterone pellet.

I had the same discussion (and same endo I think), but chose to try it. Unfortunately 3 months later the progesterone pellet has popped back out.

Rejection doesn't sound so bad, but I didn't know what it really meant. Its a lot of low level discomfort for several months, and if I'd know where it was leading I think I would have had it removed earlier, although that sounds bad too

After the first E only implant I found the implant site healed pretty much completely in about 2 weeks. With this one it didn't and after 2 weeks it was getting very red and painful. I went back and got a steroid injection to help the rejection and and antibiotics in case it was infected. That help for a while, but I never got to the point where I couldn't tell the implant was there (as with the E implant). Not sure when exactly but it started getting more and more noticeable, until it got very tender again (red and a bit swollen). Lying on it in bed was uncomfortable, and eventually I accidentally scratched the site and broke the skin. I thought it was infected and squeezed it to get the puss out, and out popped the pellet instead - it looks like a grain of rice, white, about 5 by 1 mm, and very hard. The site healed up quickly after that.

I had a blood test about 2 weeks before it came out and my progesterone level was quite low.

I think its worth a try for a 90% chance of it working, and its such a pity it didn't. Back to twice a day Microgest for me.

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 16, 2015, 07:34:49 PM
I think its worth a try for a 90% chance of it working, and its such a pity it didn't. Back to twice a day Microgest for me.

I know I have bad luck for this sort of thing so I passed.  Under 5% complication rate then I'd say yes.

I have been considering this as an option and have found your posts very helpful!!  Thank you so much for taking the time and keeping this updated.

Clara

What great information! !!!   I am wanting to partially feminize, specifically soften my skin and move some weight to my backside and hips without breast growth. In your collective opinion, can this be achieved through low dosage HRT?  Maybe estrogen without the antiandrogen? Thank you for your great insight.   Stacy ☺

I don't think so, breast growth is part of the package.

Quote from: Stacymi on February 25, 2015, 02:43:30 PM
What great information! !!!   I am wanting to partially feminize, specifically soften my skin and move some weight to my backside and hips without breast growth. In your collective opinion, can this be achieved through low dosage HRT?  Maybe estrogen without the antiandrogen? Thank you for your great insight.   Stacy ☺

I got all that with breast growth. Estrogen without anti-androgen. I don't think low dose has any particular meaning though perhaps there's a lower dose that might work. I tend to think breasts will grow, just slower than they might otherwise, but I don't actually know. There's genetics as well, so if your family has small breasts that's likely where you start heading. And be prepared to change you mind about wanting low dose after you start, as it has a powerful mental effect.

Quote from: Stacymi on February 25, 2015, 02:43:30 PM
What great information! !!!   I am wanting to partially feminize, specifically soften my skin and move some weight to my backside and hips without breast growth. In your collective opinion, can this be achieved through low dosage HRT?  Maybe estrogen without the antiandrogen? Thank you for your great insight.   Stacy ☺

It's a package deal unfortunately.

Dosage will affect the degree of skin changes, fat distribution, and breast growth.  It's just that with low dose it happens a lot slower, and to a lesser degree.  I did start on low E only and only added spiro to drop T levels down.

While I was on half dose HRT my E and T levels were basically low end F for E, low end T for M.   When I switched to pellet, I effectively ended up on lowest possible transition dose, but I'm riding the fact that family members are small breasted and I'm keeping slim to stifle breast development.  In spite of that, I'm probably an Aa to A cup and my breasts are telling me I need a bra for running.

I'm due to update again, need to find some time to gather my thoughts.

Thank you for all the input.


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This has been very helpful and informative.  Thank you, Luna.

It's close enough to 3 years that I think I'll update.  Pardon if this post is slightly steam of consciousness but I'm drugged up to the gills to counter a bad head cold.

So since November 2014, I've been on a progynova pellet (6 month dose), and completely off Spiro.

Physical stuff:
1.  Over 3 years, net gain in weight has been 2-3kg, with an 8kg peak spike last year.
2.  Weight gain attributed to some lean muscle loss with no reduction in calorie intake.
3.  Skin is soft, but delicate - I definitely bruise very easily these days.  Going to have to raise the issue with my endo at next appointment.
4.  Head full of hair, but how much can be attributed to HRT is hard to quantify.  Males on my mothers side of the family tend not to go bald.  However, in comparison to my peers, I probably have the best hairline.  :)
5.  Body hair has thinned out.  This only really occurred over the year I've been on pellet.  Epilating is far easier now.
6.  Moobs/breasts - A cup ish.  I don't measure.  They definitely let me know they are there when running.  Still tender - it comes and goes and it varies my sleeping position. Careful palpation and I can feel the glands.  Areoles dark and around 4cm, nipples about 7mm.  Not too much happening on that front.  They are definitely getting full towards the midline, but still have the snoopy look.
7.  Fat distribution - some has gone to the hips, but if I gain weight rapidly, it deposits on the belly.  I've always had a big booty, so not much change on that front.
8.  Since going off spiro, I no longer get faint changing position rapidly.  And I don't miss having to go bathroom so often.
9.  My half dozen remaining facial hairs grow extremely slowly.  Annoying enough to need to "shave" every 4 days or so, but insufficient to justify taking the time out for touch up electro.  Tempting to just pluck them.
10.  The new pellet packaging is great - much better healing this time - still a discolouration over the site, but the pellet itself barely noticeable.

Physc:
1.  Libido is low.
2.  Dysphoria is low,  but whether it is due to HRT itself or just being extremely busy, I can't say.  The temptation to go further is always there, but self discipline is the key.  I definitely do not have the "transition or die" level of dysphoria, but that's something that I've never had in the first place.
3.  I can tear up at the silliest things sometimes.  Watching emotional tv that I can directly relate to my own family has the Kleenex out.

Presentation wise I look about 10 years younger than my age, and have an androgynous sort of presentation without putting any effort into it.  With a bit of effort, male fail probably would happen.

This stuff is double edged.  It's a helpful diagnostic aid, occasionally therapeutic, but could easily take you down a path that you are unprepared for.  Tread carefully.

Hi Luna,

You're in Sydney I think? I'm curious about the new pellet packaging. I never heard of it. Could you say more?

I get the age thing as well, I had someone guess my age as 18 years younger a while ago. I'm still not sure if they were serious or not.

Quote from: luna nyan on February 26, 2015, 04:23:23 AM
This stuff is double edged.  It's a helpful diagnostic aid, occasionally therapeutic, but could easily take you down a path that you are unprepared for.  Tread carefully.

I like the way you put that. Unprepared for. So true.

Wow;
I didn't realise that its been over 1 year since I posted my progress on low dose HRT to Luna your thread. Well here is my progress. I have now been on low dose Progynova for a little over 2 years, although a few months ago my doctor decided that I should increase the dosage so that I am taking the same dose, but at night time before I go to bed and then again 12 hours later in the early morning. Basically he said he wanted me to have a steady even flow of Oestrogen in my blood stream now that my T level was below 1.0 (Females general have from 0.0 to 2.5). He indicated to me last October that hormonally now I am female.

In terms of other things:-

Moods:
I am finding that I day dream a lot and have definitely lost the male competitive edge in business. In fact its a bit of a strange feeling, but I constantly feel as though I want to  be graceful and be very relaxed about everything. The feelings that I had over a year ago around men have in every way just got much stronger in that I am no longer outward going and I have become very passive. Its something that i really like about the new me and in fact I find I like to flirt. Realistically the longer I am on Oestrogen the more passive and submissive I seem to get. I am definitely no longer competitive around men
My crying bouts seem to happen much more often and I seem to burst into tears  much more easily.

I can no longer smell other women (except a nice perfume), but my goodness standing next to a man - I get this real  strong  susceptibility to male pheromones and in fact whereas I am still very attracted to women could see having a sexual relationship with the right man. But he would have to be strong, fit and very masculine and be  the one taking charge as I would only want to be the submissive one in the relationship.

I have defiantly changed shape. I have added about 3 inches to my bottom cheeks and male trousers don't fit anymore so I wear women's jeans, shorts and pants most of the time as they fit my bottom much better.
Unfortunately even with a pretty hard exercise regime (gym and Water aerobics) my waistline has not dropped enough and I am stuck at 114Kg, but  am much fitter that I used to be

My deportment coach has me doing at least 1 hour a day practice in high heels and with my changed shape (bigger butt and bigger bobs - more of that in a minute) my centre of gravity has changed a bit and its getting a lot easier to stand properly and walk in heels. One little thing I have learnt which really helps is that when standing still in heels place ones left foot out at 45 degrees to the left about midway along your right foot with the weight on the right foot , remembering to stick you butt out, head and chin up and boobs out with a bit of a curved back. Its a very sexy look.

One interesting side effect of the low dose is my libido is at an all time low. In fact even though HRT is sort of addictive (once you really start to get the changes there is a risk you want them much faster), but I have tried to do this all gradually.

Last month I was in Adelaide out with Cindy at a restaurant and for the first time saw this woman looking at me   (it was me silly in the mirror) and I realised that I actually finally looked 100% like a woman. This is something girlfriends have been telling me for months, but I have definitely now passed the male fall line.  So I suppose its all downhill from now.

Physical changes
Weight: I have managed not to gain any more weight, but cannot seem to break the 114KG barrier. Probably its because of the increased Oestrogen but compensated by my exercise program and walking at lot. Interestingly since my dosage got doubled my arthritis in my knees has improved a lot. I didn't realise that HRT would solve this problem (or at least ease the pain!.

Breasts: I am now a large B Cup, small C Cup with a lot of breast tissue at the side and especially in the mornings have a definite Pear shape to them with my nipples very pointed.  In fact my nipples are very erect all the time and very noticeable in the gym (even with a Sports bra on) My Areolae, are now quite large and very female in look and shape. I am these days wearing a bra all the time as I need to keep them from jiggling up and down with Shirts etc as they have become very obvious. . Also about 1 hour after I take my morning dose my nipples seem particularly sensitive.  My breasts are also still growing, but they seem to have growth spurts (not at the same time).  Interestingly I have very good quality Amoena breast forms, but I cannot wear them any longer with my B Cup  bras, because my own breasts almost fill the cup, so I have just been using a Padded C Cup Bra (But I find them still a bit too big). Mind you I invested in a couple of really pretty bra and panty sets from my favourite Lingerie supplier (French Lingerie - Simone Perele). With my new  curves they look really great and I finally have some cleavage!

I did consider BA Last year and went for a Consultation, but the surgeon advised (as did some other girlfriends) not to do it until I have had 4-5 years of solid growth  as all the women in my family have been big breasted. My mother and grandmother were all DDD.

Body Hair:  Hair has disappeared in my lower legs and is a very fine on my upper legs. Two years ago after waxing they would be back especially on the bikini line and upper thighs in 2 weeks. Now even after 12 weeks they are just very fair and thin. My back hair has almost gone and I no longer have any hair in the small of my bcd or on my buttocks.

In fact my buttocks with the increased shape are starting to look really nice, but having seen Jennygirls result from Dr Hughes Brazilian Butt lift I am really thinking about going to him a those curves are really something!.

Hair: I am growing hair on my bald patch after 20 year, but unfortunately not enough to cover it. So I am reluctantly faced with using a wig long term. But I have invested in a human hair really nice mousy blonde news wig that has made a real difference to my overall presentation. In fact my beauty therapists believe that this and the amazing results on my upper lip and chin have all made my passing so much easier. It helps also that I don't have an Adams Apple.

On that point, I no longer have any dark hairs on my upper lip or chin after 10 Laser sessions, but I do have quite a few white hairs that need to be taken out with Electrolysis

Skin: My skin is very very soft all over especially my face legs and inner thighs. I am rigourous with my twice daily beauty regime and I have a facial with chemical peel derbrasion once a month. I had one last week and even my beauty therapist commented on how soft and fresh my English complexion skin  felt.. One thing is that I have discovered a lot of body erogenous zones that I didn't have as a man. In fact when I am with a woman  breast on breast or fingers on my inner thighs or behind my ear lobes - well Wow!!.

Facial changes: A lot of people have commented that I have a female aura about me and my cheeks are very definantly rounder. In fact I went to the cinema recently and asked for a Seniors card entry. The receptionist didn't believe me as she reckoned I was late 40's. so i had to get my senior card out to prove it!.

The Medical stuff
1. Blood pressure seems to have stabilised although occasionally the stress does tend to get to more than it did.
2. Libido is non existent
3. Nothing works below which is great and its getting smaller too and much easier to tuck. But I HAVE to sit down now to pee. This is good thing, but I have to remind myself when presenting in male mode not to use the stalls.

Physical:
My nipples are very female in shape and size and always extended. They are periodically incredibly sensitive , but a little Elocon ointment smeared over the nipple and around the Areolae at night can help if the pain and itching gets too much. For me this really helps tremendously and the pain subsides quite rapidly.  My muscle mass has decreased a lot it has a more slender appearance now. and My arm strength has completely gone and I really struggle now to open tight bottles

Mental: My emotions are much more evident now. I cry more easily. My sex drive has also decreased a fair bit too. Plus the best thing is that I feel so happy, a lot of the time, but I also go into a bit of a daze at times and am a lot more pensive.  I have also found that my reversing skills on the car have left me and when out and about especially at traffic lights I never miss a chance to check my lipstick or mascara in the mirror.

Movement:  Seeing my Deportment coach on a monthly basis has helped me a lot and I have done some corset training (here is an really nice Corset store in Melbourne called Siren Doll) that I use and with both an over bust corset and an under bust one that I have with my new curves and buttocks, my posture has changed.

Overall I think the biggest changes though for me is the emotional and mental changes in that I really think  and feel different now and I am noticing men much more that I though I would . In fit some are really cute.

I have been thinking a lot recently as to whether at my age I want SRS. What more probable for me at least is lip suction on my waist, back and tummy to get a more defined and female waist and I am really interested in Dr Hughes (in LA)  Brazilian Butt lift to give a more dehired waist to buttocks  definition and rounder curves, and I am sure that I will eventually need Breast Augmentation as I really would like to have DD size breasts as my relatives have. I am just not sure I want the full SRS Package. Yes if I had fully transitioned in my 30s I would have welcomed it then , but now well!!!

Quote from: AnonyMs on February 26, 2015, 05:14:09 AM
Hi Luna,

You're in Sydney I think? I'm curious about the new pellet packaging. I never heard of it. Could you say more?

I get the age thing as well, I had someone guess my age as 18 years younger a while ago. I'm still not sure if they were serious or not.

I like the way you put that. Unprepared for. So true.

The new pellet is 3mm diameter.  That means a smaller incision, and that means tape rather than a suture.  I definitely didn't enjoy removing a suture from my butt cheek so I was really really happy this time around.  And yes, I'm in Sydney.

Quote from: luna nyan on March 02, 2015, 02:17:36 AM
The new pellet is 3mm diameter.  That means a smaller incision, and that means tape rather than a suture.  I definitely didn't enjoy removing a suture from my butt cheek so I was really really happy this time around.  And yes, I'm in Sydney.

I'll look into that for the next one. I hope its the same for whatever I'm using. I'm not doing low dose.

I can't reach to take the suture out, I wish I could. I go to the doctor and while they take it out they do tend to get upset when I won't say why its there.

Thanks

Luna,

Thank you very much for keeping us aware of what is going with your HRT. It seems that you now have gone to full dosage which it is not what I am looking for at this time, but it still of great information.

Please keep posting your medical as well as you physical changes as it is very interesting to go back and learn how you have progressed and how my life changes in comparison to yours, hopefully my changes will start very soon.

Thank you and please continue.

Emily

Quote from: Emily R on March 02, 2015, 07:21:06 AM
Luna,

Thank you very much for keeping us aware of what is going with your HRT. It seems that you now have gone to full dosage which it is not what I am looking for at this time, but it still of great information.

Emily

It's more an awkward in between.  Call it wishy washy dose.  I'm on a pellet that lasts 6 months, but no spiro.  So  it's only the estrogen pellet suppressing my T levels.  I could possible go onto a lower dose pellet, but it'd mean 3 monthly replacement and I don't have the time for that.

My E levels peak at 500 and fall to 350 at the end of a pellet.

Update time:
Checked in with my endo.  The last time I saw him 6 months ago he placed another progynova implant at the same dosage to maintain.

The blood test readings: 600 E! 0.2 T.  This is into transition range, and this is at 6 month since placement of the last one.

Pellet effect is cumulative, so I'm sitting tight for now as topping up with a lower dose pellet wouldnt do much., and another pellet of my current dose would my E levels over 1000.

Changes have continued,  but have been very gradual - my breasts continue to be tender.
Skin is translucent, and bruises very easily.

Next review in 3 months, likely will have to have the implant replaced then.

Luna,

Thank you for continuing updating this topic although at this point you are on full dosage.

I started my low dosage a month ago  with only estradiol and no spiro at this time, I will have a consultation with my endo at 3 months time and so far I have only notice that I have some sensitivity on the breasts, and the nocturnal erections have gone away, oh also I have notice that body hair is growing slower.

Please continue with your updates as they have served me to understand and plan my own transition,

Emily

My pellet dosage is still effectively half dose compared to what my endo usually prescribes for transitioning.

Pellets are just very efficient at delivering E so I've ended up with transition levels in blood work.  That's why I'm sitting tight and didn't have the pellet refreshed.

Hi Luna Nyan;
I have been considering asking my GP for a referral to Monash to an Endo to get a pellet implant as I take  my Oestrogen twice a day (12 hours gap) sublingually, and its a hassle. (My GP says he doesn't do pellets). But reading your situation I am wondering if this might really push me over the edge. Since on my trip to my house in the UK, many of my friends and relatives commented how well I looked and how I somehow looked 10 years younger and so much more relaxed. In fact my closest female relative sorted of guessed by saying how radiant I looked almost as if I was a pregnant woman!. So I reckon that although I would like not to have the hassle , the pellet approach may be too much and really push me over the edge so as to speak into 100% male fail..
Yes you are absolutely right  taking Oestrogen long term is a slow but sure cumulative effect at least that is what I have found with my T levels now getting very low, but my Oestrogen climbing al the time. Its almost as though my T  production has shut down almost completely. Whats surprising is that this is without any Anti Androgens ever.
Judithlynn

Judith,

The pellets are compounded into different dosages.  The lowest dose theoretically would only last 3 months before a refresh is needed.

Although the lowest dose would probably have kept me at where I was before, the fact that I'd have to have a minor surgical procedure quarterly put me off, so I gambled on the 6 month.

As a non transitioner, fortunately I'm blessed with minimal visits from the boob fairy and aa to a sized boobs can be hidden on a person with my frame.

I probably won't update my situation here till mid to late August after the next blood test.

Regarding the new 3mm pellets, I asked about them. They are from a new supplier, and there were problems making the larger ones, so he implants 2 smaller ones rather than one big one. Or one small one I guess.

Quote from: judithlynn on July 23, 2015, 11:09:09 PM
Hi Luna Nyan;
I have been considering asking my GP for a referral to Monash to an Endo to get a pellet implant as I take  my Oestrogen twice a day (12 hours gap) sublingually, and its a hassle. (My GP says he doesn't do pellets). But reading your situation I am wondering if this might really push me over the edge. Since on my trip to my house in the UK, many of my friends and relatives commented how well I looked and how I somehow looked 10 years younger and so much more relaxed. In fact my closest female relative sorted of guessed by saying how radiant I looked almost as if I was a pregnant woman!. So I reckon that although I would like not to have the hassle , the pellet approach may be too much and really push me over the edge so as to speak into 100% male fail..
Yes you are absolutely right  taking Oestrogen long term is a slow but sure cumulative effect at least that is what I have found with my T levels now getting very low, but my Oestrogen climbing al the time. Its almost as though my T  production has shut down almost completely. Whats surprising is that this is without any Anti Androgens ever.
Judithlynn

Here might be some pointers for your doc:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192044.msg1713877.html#msg1713877


hugs

Update time:

I got 10 months out of my last progynova implant.  Hormone assays were 350E 0.5T before insertion of another implant, same dosage.  The pellet alone has been extremely effective in suppression of T.

The smaller 3mm pellets have been kind to me.  Other than a minor scar from the incision, I'm not getting an angry mass of keloid tissue over the implantation site.  I haven't required sutures on both occasions - a bit of surgical tape, and a big bandaid, and I'm up and about.

Changes continue.
Upper body strength loss is now significant.
Fat continues to slowly migrate to hips n bum.
Breasts are now definite A cup
Facial changes are significant enough now that if I were to let my hair grow a little longer, it'd be easy to male fail.  I'm getting away with this as changes have been so slow and gradual and people expect to see what they want to see.

I definitely feel a lot more emotional.  I was watching a movie once and ended up bawling my eyes out uncontrollably for the last 15 minutes.

Libido is low, and it takes a bit to get things going these days.

Dysphoria is well under control.

Thanks Luna, as always, for keeping us updated! I know I'm not alone in the excitement I feel when I'm notified that you've posted to this thread!

Quote from: luna nyan on November 12, 2015, 05:06:02 AM
Update time:

Thanks so much for this Luna.  Do you feel like you'll eventually be presenting female since you're so close now? 

Paige :)

The sounds like really wonderful progress to me and I hope those changes are what you want and near to what you expected. :D

Luna,
Many thanks for the update, about this experience you started about 4 years ago if I am correct. This is very helpful for me as I also manage my dysphoria with low dose since 3 months, without plans for a full transition (mainly to protect my family). It would be great if you could tell us a bit more how it works in your daily life: how easy is it to present as a male at work and with your family and friends?



Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

Quote from: Paige on November 12, 2015, 12:45:41 PM
Thanks so much for this Luna.  Do you feel like you'll eventually be presenting female since you're so close now? 

Paige :)

Not at this stage.  The whole aim of this is to avoid transition.  I have a happy personal life and professionally, I'm at a critical point in my career and the disruption transition would have outweigh the benefits for me.

Quote from: Tessa James on November 12, 2015, 01:41:02 PM
The sounds like really wonderful progress to me and I hope those changes are what you want and near to what you expected. :D

I have a love hate relationship with my changes.  I love them as they mean I'm not getting the age related male changes, and also because I'm feminising.  But at the same time it's a bit much for my States aims.

Quote from: Autrement on November 13, 2015, 09:50:29 AM
Luna,
Many thanks for the update, about this experience you started about 4 years ago if I am correct. This is very helpful for me as I also manage my dysphoria with low dose since 3 months, without plans for a full transition (mainly to protect my family). It would be great if you could tell us a bit more how it works in your daily life: how easy is it to present as a male at work and with your family and friends?



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To date, presentation wise it hasn't been an issue, but some people will pick up that something is up but may have difficulty voicing what it actually is.  The most common comment is "you look young"

Careful clothing choices go a long way, and as I've always favoured dark and slightly loose fits, it does help me get away with it.

Hi Luna Nyan;
I thought I would give a brief update on my latest HRT results, especially since its been about 9 months since I last posted to this thread. I have now been back on  HRT now for 2 years and 9 months.

My latest results on my Hormone Assays are:
T : elevated since last Blood Test (was just 2.5), but now 4.6
Oestradial: Has increased remarkably - now at 197

I am still not on an implant as I am struggling to find someone to do it in Melbourne.  Obviously I cannot disclose dosages (except to say that I was still on just a low dose of Progynova only, but my Doctor wants me to double my intake (from once a day to twice a day) over the next 4 months, to try to bring my T down to under 2 (preferably 1.5), to really knock the T levels down.

The reason I slipped back was that (again I cannot discuss dosages) but I had found that I had lost something of my competitive edge (business related). Almost as though emotionally I wasn't focussed enough business wide - to interested in feminine things like fashion etc. The result is raised (slightly) levels of T.

Overall though I have been feeling quite good and over the last month have been on a Paleo Diet - Absolutely no carbs, no fruit juices, no sugar, no Coke etc. And writing everything down that I eat. Over 3.5 weeks I have lost 3Kg, but a long way to go. Also following someone else advice, I have started taking CoQ10 and is does boost Energy!

But I just myself a new pair of Black Skinny Women's jeans (I cannot wear Mens any longer as my buttocks are too big - I kept splitting my male trousers at the seams as the fabric stretched across my rounded buttocks!) and I tried on size 22 (normal size), but they were too loose, surprised I tried on size 20 and again to loose, Size 18 fitted perfectly. This is amazing as I haven't been in a Size 18 in years. Target though is size 14. I can only hope.

In terms of other things:-

Moods:

I have started to get out more and have joined a couple of Lesbian/Bi-Sexual  groups and been to a number of Womens only functions. I now identify as a Lipstick Femme Lesbian. I definantly though feel very passive and I think the HRT has made more submissive. Also before I re-started HRT I was an out there guy (Not alpha but one of the party). These days I am happy to flirt, but want others to be in control, as I feel thats more natural for me.

Recently I have been having a few Hot Flashes . My Gp reckons that was because of the slightly increased amount of T, but feels that the next 4 months should quell that and hopes to have me on a steady 250 level of Oestradial the next time I am tested. Also Crying has become very easy for me
My crying bouts seem to happen much more often and I seem to burst into tears  much more easily.

Body.

I have added about 3.5 inches to my bottom cheeks and male trousers don't fit anymore so I wear women's jeans, shorts and pants most of the time as they fit my bottom much better.

With a pretty hard exercise regime (Gym, Diet  and Water aerobics) my waistline has dropped a little and I am finally just under 110Kg, but  am much fitter that I used to be. But I am aiming for 85Kg

I am keeping up my deportment coach sessions and trying to do at least one hour practice each day in heels  and I am becoming much more comfortable now wearing them.  Also now its summer I can wear open toe stockings and pant hose and wearing my open toe shoes and keeping my toes nicely polished with my favourite OPI Colours. I have also just started vocal training, but am considering Vocal surgery in Lorea as I am so impressed by Jenny girls results

Libido is still down thanks goodness. If I do have a orgasm, it is definitely an all body affair  and I cannot help it, but I get a bit vocal now  and when it comes  its seems to last for a long time.


Physical changes
Weight:As above I am finally under 110kg

Breasts: I am now a large B Cup, and these days wear a 44B or 42C bra. I especially have a lot of breast tissue at the sides, but my breasts are rather tubular (unless held up in a support bra. I  like Marks and Spencer for pretty lace bras in these sizes. Nipples are extended all the time - so I cannot weary white T shirts without a bra as my Nipples are very in evidence. In fact I am close to Malfail just on my breasts alone.

I am these days wearing a bra all the time as I need to keep them from jiggling up and down with Shirts etc as they have become very obvious. . Also about 1 hour after I take my morning dose my nipples seem particularly sensitive.  My breasts are also still growing, but they seem to have growth spurts (not at the same time). 
My nipples are very female in shape and size and always extended. They are periodically incredibly sensitive , but a little Elocon ointment smeared over the nipple and around the Areolae at night can help if the pain and itching gets too much. For me this really helps tremendously and the pain subsides quite rapidly.  My muscle mass has decreased a lot it has a more slender appearance now. and My arm strength has completely gone and I really struggle now to open tight bottles
I did consider BA Last year and went for a Consultation, but the surgeon advised (as did some other girlfriends) not to do it until I have had 4-5 years of solid growth  as all the women in my family have been big breasted. My mother and grandmother were all DDD.

Body Hair:  Hair has disappeared in my lower legs and is a very fine on my upper legs. Two years ago after waxing they would be back especially on the bikini line and upper thighs in 2 weeks. Now even after 12 weeks they are just very fair and thin. My back hair has almost gone and I no longer have any hair in the small of my back or on my buttocks.

In fact my buttocks with the increased shape are starting to look really nice, but having seen Jennygirls result from Dr Hughes Brazilian Butt lift I am really thinking about going to him a those curves are really something!.

Hair: No real change these. On my face all my black hairs are gone and I have only 1 Laser treatment this year. Now I am starting on Laser for my décolleté and underarms as I have a few hairs around my nipples and cleavage that must go

Skin: My skin is very very soft all over especially my face legs and inner thighs.I am also having a peeling facial once every two months.

Facial changes: A couple of people have embarked about my facial features have changed and they have noticed my facial "glow". I have also got a more rounded face. These days I keep my  Eye lashes and eyebrows tinted and well shaped


Overall I think the biggest changes though for me is the emotional and mental changes in that I really think  and feel different now and I am noticing men much more that I though I would, but I remain interested only in Women

Quote from: judithlynn on November 17, 2015, 08:37:02 PM
I am still not on an implant as I am struggling to find someone to do it in Melbourne.

If you can manage to travel to Sydney Dr Hayes does have interstate patients (I asked), and for implants you'd not need to do it very often.

Hi Anonymous, Thanks - What is Dr Hayes website/address. I do come up to Sydney about 3-4 times a year on business. So that might be possible.
Judith

Quote from: judithlynn on November 19, 2015, 12:43:04 AM
Hi Anonymous, Thanks - What is Dr Hayes website/address. I do come up to Sydney about 3-4 times a year on business. So that might be possible.
Judith

Hi Judith, he does like blood tests so it might be a good idea to get one done before you visit. Ask him, or failing that others' that have been there. It would be disappointing to get there and find he wants the test done first, or some other paperwork. I believe his wait list was 6 weeks in St Leonards last time I asked. No idea about the other places yet.

He has 3 offices in different parts of Sydney, Bondi Junction, Mona Vale, St Leondards
His phone number is 02 9966 8556

Jon Hayes
Level 2 Room 11
66 Pacific Hwy Street,
St.Leonards,
Sydney,
NSW 2065
Australia

I believe this is his website, but there's nothing there yet

http://drjonhayes.com.au/

I'll pm you his email address so he doesn't get spam.

dr Hayes loves his pint of blood.   As I'm not due to see him for 9 months he gave me not 1, not 2, but 3!!!! Referrals for blood tests.  He is nice about it in the fact that he also is closely monitoring some other possible long term issues I may end up with.

Judith,

It seems like things are going well for you.  I'm personally skeptical about the paleo diet, but I'm happy that it works for you.   I love sweet things too much to give them up - I'd rather eat less of everything!

Hello, I hope you don't mind me butting in but I had a question for Luna and the others on low dose HRT.  I was wondering if you experienced both physical and social dysphoria, and if so, does low dose HRT help with both kinds?

Keeping my E level in the 'low dose' range significantly decreased my physical dysphoria.  If anything, I have become WAY more social than I was...which was already an extroverted nature.  I was maintaining T in the low range (for GM) and lowish (top end of low end) E for a while, though was not on guided HRT.  Started HRT through my Endo last month and jumped the doses in to mid range and moodiness is now obvious, where it was 'just a little' more fiery maintaining low levels.

Breast growth is more of a fill from the loss when I went off full HRT in 97.  The girls shrank a little, but stuck around enough to start up again just fine.  No real pain until several months in to low levels.  This actually helped bury some of the dyshporia as I now had a focus letting me know that I am in motion.

Hi Luna and others on low dose,

Has anyone discussed the difference between low dose anti-androgen to block T versus low dose E.    Would just blocking some T be enough for some people? 

Thanks,
Paige :)

The issue with suppressing T alone is the risk of hypogonadism - much of that may be desirable for MTF (decrease in beard/body hair growth rate, loss of muscle mass, possible gynecomastia), but with some possible unfortunate side effects (loss of libido, general energy, concentration, and most notably, osteoporosis).

It also may not necessarily prevent male age related changes such as hair loss, if one is predisposed that way.

YMMV of course.

Most people would find that a small dose of E would be desirable for reducing the risks of the above, and for some feminisation effect.

Quote from: kaitylynn on November 21, 2015, 02:19:43 PM
Keeping my E level in the 'low dose' range significantly decreased my physical dysphoria.  If anything, I have become WAY more social than I was...which was already an extroverted nature.  I was maintaining T in the low range (for GM) and lowish (top end of low end) E for a while, though was not on guided HRT.  Started HRT through my Endo last month and jumped the doses in to mid range and moodiness is now obvious, where it was 'just a little' more fiery maintaining low levels.

Breast growth is more of a fill from the loss when I went off full HRT in 97.  The girls shrank a little, but stuck around enough to start up again just fine.  No real pain until several months in to low levels.  This actually helped bury some of the dyshporia as I now had a focus letting me know that I am in motion.

Almost the same here, I have been on low oral doses for years, certainly I became so much more social, massive benefit... and I don't think I am lacking in the upstairs dept. considering how late I started and family history ;)

Katy xxx

Since 4 months on both low anti-andro and E, I experience reduction in dysphoria, both physically and in relationships, with more emotions and easier connection to others.

I am thinking of reducing or removing E if at some point in time, too much feminisation becomes a problem for my life as a male.


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Quote from: luna nyan on November 23, 2015, 04:00:14 AM
The issue with suppressing T alone is the risk of hypogonadism - much of that may be desirable for MTF (decrease in beard/body hair growth rate, loss of muscle mass, possible gynecomastia), but with some possible unfortunate side effects (loss of libido, general energy, concentration, and most notably, osteoporosis).

It also may not necessarily prevent male age related changes such as hair loss, if one is predisposed that way.

YMMV of course.

Most people would find that a small dose of E would be desirable for reducing the risks of the above, and for some feminisation effect.

Hi Luna.

I guess a small dose of E doesn't reduce T as much as anti-androgen and so many negatives don't apply.  By the way you describe it, it sounds like my wife would be happier with the low E.  It's too bad there isn't more info on low dose E.

Thanks so much,
Paige :)

Quote from: Paige on November 24, 2015, 02:01:47 PM
I guess a small dose of E doesn't reduce T as much as anti-androgen and so many negatives don't apply.  By the way you describe it, it sounds like my wife would be happier with the low E.  It's too bad there isn't more info on low dose E.

I did low dose E only, no anti-androgen's, for perhaps 5 years. This was before I saw a doctor. My T was between male and female. I felt great to start with but eventually got seriously depressed, saw my endo and went to full HRT. I feel way better now.

Quote from: Paige on November 24, 2015, 02:01:47 PM
I guess a small dose of E doesn't reduce T as much as anti-androgen and so many negatives don't apply.  By the way you describe it, it sounds like my wife would be happier with the low E.  It's too bad there isn't more info on low dose E.

I did low E first then added spiro to the mix, found a happy level, then got sick of taking pills and dealing with issues from spiro (occasional leg cramps, orthostatic hypotension, having to watch potassium intake etc).  Hormone levels were awesome for aiming to be andro though - lowest range for male T and lowest range for female E.

Switched to and implant and the implant blew my E levels way up and killed my T levels, even without spiro.

E only may led to mooblets and some lowering of T...

Hi! I'm on a low Proginova dose for 2 months now. I've choose a low dosage of E without any AA because of my family and my work. But now I see that my body changing pretty fast. My breast between T2 and T3 stage and I lost almost all hair on my legs (after 3 times of epilation it's not growing at all). I think it's very fast for just a 1 pill per day? Will the change to 1/2 per day slow down the progress significantly? I like all these changes but I want to do it a little more smoothly.

Quote from: Helen on December 01, 2015, 12:15:23 PM
Hi! I'm on a low Proginova dose for 2 months now. I've choose a low dosage of E without any AA because of my family and my work. But now I see that my body changing pretty fast. My breast between T2 and T3 stage and I lost almost all hair on my legs (after 3 times of epilation it's not growing at all). I think it's very fast for just a 1 pill per day? Will the change to 1/2 per day slow down the progress significantly? I like all these changes but I want to do it a little more smoothly.

Almost funny but you get the changes some really do want to see and feel real fast:-)  Your personal regime is going to come with an individualized response to those medications depending on your particular health status.  Oh and you cannot mention your dosages on this site. 

Quote from: Tessa James on December 01, 2015, 02:10:33 PM
Almost funny but you get the changes some really do want to see and feel real fast:-)  Your personal regime is going to come with an individualized response to those medications depending on your particular health status.

I like these changes, but I need it smooth. So I really should lower the dose. Is 1/2 will be good to start?

Quote from: Tessa James on December 01, 2015, 02:10:33 PM
Oh and you cannot mention your dosages on this site.

Sorry. I'm new on this place. I've edited the post.

The conventional wisdom is to advise your health care providers and work it out with them.  And then I know of people who simply reduced dosages on their own by taking one less pill, patch or injection to find their sweet spot.  Do tell your doc tho.  It often seems to me that the more specific our goals and expectations are, the harder it is to arrive on time and in style.  I also know people who mess with dosages to produce or eliminate "cycling" sensations.

You're undoubtably worth the effort to fine tune your own song :D

Talk to your doc, script can be changed for a lower dose if you think things are progressing too quickly.  I found that it's a juggling act between minimising dysphoria, maintaining mood, and avoiding excessive feminisation.

Hi Helen;
I agree with Luna, its a delicate balancing act. Basically I have now nearly been on HRT for 3 years (low dose Progyinova). For me the problem is  that every so often, my dysphoria breaks out again, Testosterone climbs up, my libido rises and I get very irritable and depressed.  The problem for me is that over time  although the Oestrogen builds up in the system, the body gets used to it.  The only thing to quell it is getting my Doctor to increase my low dose. After a couple of weeks, the dysphoria subsidies, libido crops, my "thing" goes back to its tiny size, testicles continue to shrink, my ultra smooth skin returns and my body starts to go again and I feel great. But then the boobs start growing again (I am already a comfortable 44B) and now rapidly heading to a C Cup. I cannot wear mens trousers etc as my butt is too big (Nice projection though) and I am getting hips. So in effect the feminisation process starts gaining pace again. So I contemplate it for a bit then slowly wind down again. But I am noticing that the  bouts of dysphoria break out are getting more often. Its almost as though my body is telling me that I must fully transition NOW and get rid of this awful T stuff!!
Judith

Thanks, girls! I've decided to keep the current dosage for another 2 months mostly because I'm feeling very good in emotional plan. So it is better to experiencing too quick physical changes than to waiting the dysphoria back.

Thank you for creating this thread. It has given me the knowledge I need to understand which direction is best for me.

I'm hoping for a slow gradual change, but I'm concerned the changes will be much faster than I desire.

Conclusion I've come to is that there is only one way to find out, even if it means no turning back.

We all react to HRT differently.  Many factors come into play: age, weight, overall health and lifestyle, emotional health etc. etc.  I started almost a year ago with increases in dosage every 90 days for 9 mos.  The best E level that I could achieve was 76.  This was with patches.  My endo has now switched me to injectable and I fear that his conservative approach will see similar results.  I am awaiting test results rights now and will see him in the morning. One other factor is that that I'm a little over 30 days post op GCS so who knows what my levels will look like.  We'll see in the morning!

Hugz!

Levels VARY from one hour, one day to another, they may be significantly different especially on injectables. What's the point of measuring E? Levels of E are also NOT indicative of health risks as many practitioners wrongly believe. The more important factor is the TYPE of estrogen and route of administration (oral vs. non-oral).

I have had levels of 1,000-4,000 pg/ml of estradiol. Despite this, liver is fine, so is clotting, CBC, glucose, lipids, etc. Why? Because the estrogen is BIO-IDENTICAL and is given parenterally (non-orally).

It's now been four years since I started on my HRT with no social transition journey so time for an update.

To save people flipping back through the thread, a timeline summary:
March 2012 - 1/2 dose progynova, no t block
May 2012 - 1/2 dose spiro - first feminising changes start
May 2012-March 2014 - continued on 1/2 average dose - up to AA size breast development, 5kg weight gain
March 2014 to present - implant only

Hormone assays:
May 2012-Mar 2014: low end male T, low end female E
Mar 2014 onwards: essentially female hormone levels

Since switching to pellet, feminisation has advanced.
A cup breast size, nipple and areoles have developed significantly.   Sleeping on the stomach is no longer an option - the girls complain about the pressure.
Definitely significant fat deposits on hips, but still have male fat deposits
Expected changes downstairs have occurred with the usual levels of atrophy.

Hair on legs now wispy, muscle definition has dropped.
Since cessation of T blocker, bruising has reduced
Definite loss of upper body strength but with minimal reduction of arm diameter

Emotionally, I am stable and content.   I do feel like I am on a tightrope and could fall down the transition rabbit hole if I am not careful.   External factors preclude transition, but I am happy with my lot.

Careful selection of clothing hides the changes effectively - people see what they want to see.  I do occasionally male fail on photos in spite of a male haircut, and a girlfriend, semi drunk, bumped into me and commented it as like leaning against a girl.

The question always is going to be how long can I keep this up, but it's been four years and still going...

Hi Luna,

Glad it's still going well for you.  I've been at the Spiro stage for 5 months.  It has feminized me a bit, soft skin, body hair wispy, some fat to breasts and hips.  I'm not even close to where you are but I really understand your comment about falling down the transition rabbit hole.

Thanks for posting.  It's a great help.

Take care,
Paige :)

Hi Luna,
I've been following this thread since it started. Thank you so much for diligently updating your progress. I am very close to starting HRT and like you, I may opt for a low dose to start while I contemplate social transition further down the line. I'm 55 so I'm also got the biological clock ticking. I'd like to know how old you are if you don't mind. If you do that's ok - no worries. Please keep posting.
Lauren

Hi
Here's my update. I've been on a low dose for 9 months now and have checkups every 3 months. The last visit my estrogen level was down and I kind of been feeling it. My endo told me what a low dose, transistor dose and high does was. I asked her if I can go to a medium dose and she agreed to let me try it for two weeks and if I am ok she will increase my prescription.

Like many I am not ready for any body changes but I love the changes so far. Thicker softer hair on my head and thinner body hair and love the softer skin. I changed my hair dresser who knows I am transgender and now styles my hair with a longer length.

My depression has been reduced a lot and now it's time to try to reduce the depression medication.

My wife has been ok but the intimacy level has dropped dramatically. I miss it.

That's all for me. I will send an update at 12 months
Melanie


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Thanks very much, very helpful

Quote from: laurenb on March 31, 2016, 06:52:26 AM
I'm 55 so I'm also got the biological clock ticking. I'd like to know how old you are if you don't mind. If you do that's ok - no worries. Please keep posting.
Lauren

Just on the wrong side of the mid life crisis.  ;)

I'm glad people still find this thread useful - as I'm essentially in a steady state situation, I don't come on here so often to browse threads in depth anymore.   I generally pop on to check in on a few people and enough time has passed, I ipdate this thread.

Things may change one day, you never know.

Thank you so much Luna Nyan for starting this thread and all the others for chiming in - I've reread the whole thread too many times to count - it is incredibly informative and inspirational.

Know YMMV, but the possibility of doing low dose to counter dysphoria really gives me hope!

Check in time. @9 months since last pellet.
Pellets are cumulative in effect, levels were higher at the end of 9months this time than last time.
E at 565 pmol whatever vs about 385 last time.  T still at 0.3 whatever.

I've fallen into transition dosage ranges and I feel good.  Emotionally I'm happy.  Mentally, where I identify gender wise could be considered fluid as I am a social chameleon.  Sexuality wise, ask the ping pong balls.  The good news, GID under control.

Stubbornly ignoring the elephant in the pink tutu in the room and refusing to socially transition.  Fortunately my development is somewhat limited so I can bluff my way through.

Physical changes have been minimal since last time.  I suppose the mooblets are filling out somewhat, but not much has changed around the caboose.   Still some belly fat around which helps hide what's happening.  Definitely noticing the lack of T these days - building strength up in exercise is now much more difficult.

So where to from here?  Implant was topped up at the same dosage as before.   The good news for me is that I should see 12 months before it falls back down to my current level.  I still have no intentions of transition and it's been over 4 years since I started this journey.

For those considering this path, tread carefully.  Like Pringles, once you pop you can't stop, and this path has life changing consequences.

Many thanks Luna Nyan. This is really helpful. Your experience provided me with a strong reference, as I started HRT one year ago with no plan for social transition.

Could you please tell a bit more in what way you see "life changing consequences", as  your social life is continuing as it was - apart from feeling happier?

For me, I feel much calmer, with GID angst removed, with no change in my daily life (spouse, family, work) and I am happy about it.

Quote from: Autrement on July 21, 2016, 02:41:12 AM

Could you please tell a bit more in what way you see "life changing consequences", as  your social life is continuing as it was - apart from feeling happier?

You do end up in a no mans land of sorts, neither goose or gander.  Mentally there's a tightrope to not say hell with the consequences and transition.   But for me, it would be irresponsible on too many levels.

Physically you lose the male advantages over time, but are yet still expected to perform physical tasks like a male.   Going bare chested is not an option, the list goes on with little things like that.

In isolation each thing is minor, but totalled up it is very much on your mind that you're not quite where you should be socially, yet physiologically you've long passed that point.

Thanks girls for all the information and details. Big hugs especially to Luna and Judith.  Shannon

What was your dose as a low dose?  I've been on/off over the last 4 months... Didn't think that was high enough dose but is where the Dr started me since I'm non-transitioning.




(No Dosages Please)

Quote from: uuMachine on July 21, 2016, 12:18:52 PM
What was your dose as a low dose?  I've been on/off over the last 4 months... Didn't think that was high enough dose but is where the Dr started me since I'm non-transitioning.

I think low dose is more about blood levels, or having less effect than a higher dose would. People absorb medications differently so an actual dose doesn't mean much. I used heaps of patches and they were not very effective, but they would have been for most people.

Hi uuMachine  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

The discussion of dosages is not allowed on this site

Rule:

Quote8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctor's supervision is prohibited.
C. The posting of recommended, or actual dosages, is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.

We cannot in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.

Here's a few quick links to help you along

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Hugs

V M

Many thanks Luna Nyan. I think I get your point: it is not so easy to feel in between, in so many details of practical life. However, it is probably better than not taking HRT and keep struggling with the dysphoria.

Quote from: Autrement on July 22, 2016, 05:17:55 AM
Many thanks Luna Nyan. I think I get your point: it is not so easy to feel in between, in so many details of practical life. However, it is probably better than not taking HRT and keep struggling with the dysphoria.

If it's a struggle, then HRT may give you relief, but whether or not it's sufficient and successful long term is the big unknown - that's going to depend on your own specific circumstances.  There are many here who have been on HRT and non-transitioned for substantial periods of time, equally there are some who move on to transition.

For me, the pile of minor inconveniences aren't so easily sneezed at, but on the other hand, mentally, I'm at a good place so the trade off has been worth it for me.

Yes, since one year I am on low dose and came to the same conclusion for the time being. Did anybody prove it is doable for ever, this would be good to know...

I did about 6 years low dose. It was great at the start but eventually I got seriously depressed and had to move to a full transitioning dose. That was great at the start - and i'm still at the start. It's only been two years.

I've no plans to socially transition, too much too lose, but I find I'm a bit uneasy about where I am. I guess it will get worse over time as all these things tend to.

Quote from: Autrement on July 22, 2016, 10:50:14 AM
Yes, since one year I am on low dose and came to the same conclusion for the time being. Did anybody prove it is doable for ever, this would be good to know...

You can do whatever you want for as long as you want.  You just have to be comfortable with yourself.  If you are comfortable looking different than before without a full transition then who cares what is in somebody else's mind.

Don't worry; Be Happy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

Thanks for your replies!

Quote from: Deborah on July 22, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
You can do whatever you want for as long as you want.  You just have to be comfortable with yourself.  If you are comfortable looking different than before without a full transition then who cares what is in somebody else's mind

For me it's not about being comfortable, because I'm not. I've got a lot to lose and I don't want to risk it. What I have to lose is not in my mind, and it's outside my control.

It's a common problem of course, and if I were in a different situation or had worse dysphoria I think I'd have given up and transitioned already. As it is it's I'll wait until something changes.

Quote from: AnonyMs on July 22, 2016, 01:02:37 PM
For me it's not about being comfortable, because I'm not. I've got a lot to lose and I don't want to risk it. What I have to lose is not in my mind, and it's outside my control.

It's a common problem of course, and if I were in a different situation or had worse dysphoria I think I'd have given up and transitioned already. As it is it's I'll wait until something changes.

I agree with all you said there.  Let me better explain what I meant.  On any dose of HRT, after some period of time one's appearance is going to change.  The extent of change is dependent both on genetics and dosage.  So, a person has to be comfortable with that change regardless of their presentation.  If they are not comfortable with themselves they will be on edge and cause unease in others.  That's where most of the  problems will arise.  And, individual circumstances and environment must be considered too.

Hi Deborah, I'm not really sure what you mean. I think the people reading this are binary mtf and seeking a way of reducing dysphoria without social transition. Unless you're non-binary why else would you do it?

I expect most would be comfortable with any changes, but too much would cause practical problems. For me the more the better just so long as I can hide it, and I've managed to hide a lot. After 2 or 3 years on full dose I think I can hide everything that's going to happen, and ignoring my face its quite good. My face I'm not sure about since I have facial hair and I've never tried to pass as female. I've been thinking about SRS as well; I can hide that.

Maybe I have misunderstood the jist of the thread.  If so then my comments may not be applicable.

What I was replying to was a perceived fear of mtf binary transsexuals that if they use HRT there will come a time when a Social Transition is forced upon them.  So my reply is that it's never forced upon you and you can continue without social transition for as long as you want without any problem as long as you are comfortable with the physical changes that come.  Most are not outlandishly obvious anyway. 

Other than not dressing differently or changing my name and making a public announcement  I don't make any special effort to hide anything and I've even grown my hair to my shoulders and never tie it back in the acceptable manly ponytail.  Between that and my face my appearance has changed quite a bit.  It has caused me no problems and even in the hyper conservative and hyper macho environment where I work I think people are friendlier to me than before because I am now unstressed and no longer an unfocused cynical a**hole.

I have no idea what people think of me although I do know for a fact that they have questions.  But those questions or suspicions, whatever they may be, do not translate into people suddenly taking an aversion to me.  Quite the opposite has been true. 

And I understand the reasons for taking HRT while delaying social transition to an undefined time.  I'm doing that myself.

You could be right about fearing being forced in social transition. Its been so long I can't really recall what I was thinking when I started. There's basically no chance I'll that will happen to me, no one's even noticed a far as I can tell. I do live an unusual lifestyle so that may not apply to everyone. Its possible I'll accidentally out myself one day, but chances are it wouldn't have enough impact for force me to social transition.

Physical changes are slow and you can moderate them with dosage, assuming you're able to cope with doing that. I don't feel its a realistic fear if you're able to control how you dress and present yourself when out.

The thing I do worry about is the mental changes, and it has caught me out. Hence the upgrading from low to transitioning HRT. I don't think I have any social dysphoria, but I'm finding the hiding everything quite oppressive these days. I'd also quite like to get a electrolysis, BA and probably FFS, but that would out me.

My feelings have been changing over the last year, perhaps because of HRT. Its hard to describe, but before it was more like I wanted to be female and now its shifted to I am. Its quite a deep change. There's still plenty of male in there though. I'd guess social transition would bring more of that.

On the mental side, I think a fair number of people start HRT and find they just have go all the way, really quickly.

I have been on full dose HRT for 18 months; since day one.  The mental effects have been outright liberating.  My approach is somewhat different than yours though.  My social dysphoria is pretty minimal so handling that isn't really an issue.  However, if I felt like I was really trying to hide things I think that would be a huge issue for me.  I'm not certain, but I think that growing out my hair has caused as much relief as the HRT.  The thought of cutting it all off causes me angst anyway.

I'm not terribly worried about being outed.  That probably sounds inconsistent with not socially transitioning but then my mind works strangely sometimes.  One of my friends has asked many times if I am transitioning and I have never outright denied it; I've so much as confessed it a few times so maybe I am outed already.  But I don't let any of that concern me as long as people aren't treating me badly which nobody has. 

And I understand the feeling of "I am" too.  "I am" and what I'm wearing at any given time has no bearing on that.  What people call me does have some bearing and that I would like to change.  But since I am kind of stuck in where I work, and I'm very happy there and really like my current job, my mind isn't convinced that getting people to simply use a different name would help that much since I have been working there for years and have known some of them for up to 35 years.

Quote from: Deborah on July 22, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
You can do whatever you want for as long as you want.  You just have to be comfortable with yourself.  If you are comfortable looking different than before without a full transition then who cares what is in somebody else's mind.

Wow - great insight you all...

I'm doing the low dose thing but just a couple of months in (so just a newbie compared to many of you) but this is the sentiment I'm trying to focus on - thing I've talked to my therapist about...I don't know where all this will lead, but even on low HRT I feel better than I have in a long time...ever, really.

It's not my nature - but even if I'm not certain will this road will lead, the data I gather along the way should help me when I get there. I too don't want to socially transition (so much to lose, and there's a lot about my life I totally love just the way it is!) but at the same time, physical changes are not entirely unwelcome because this is what really puts dysphoria in its place.

I guess the trick is to keep that balancing act so we have our cake and eat it too...if there was reassurance that it'll work forever, that would be so nice. But in the meantime, I guess it's just going to take a little faith...

Yes, that's more or less my philosophy of life.  I worry about today and let tomorrow take care of itself.  Sometimes this does get me into trouble but in this case I think it's the best way.

Just a guess, but I suspect most people who try to go this low dose don't manage it very long. There's not many people doing it.

Quote from: AnonyMs on July 22, 2016, 09:45:32 PM
Just a guess, but I suspect most people who try to go this low dose don't manage it very long. There's not many people doing it.

Well, I managed 2 years before I ended up on transition ranges on the blood work.

It wasn't a deliberate decision to do so though - it was more a consequence of seeking an alternative to daily medication with pills.  I suppose some might take that as an excuse, but I still feel that that was truly the reason at the time.

Now would I drop back to lower levels?   No, unless further changes make things awkward for me.

Hi Anonymous;
I managed four just over 3 years, before the dysphoria breakouts started getting more frequent again, because the body was so used to the Oestrogen regime (and/or, T started spiking again!).
Judith

I don't know why I couldn't take low dose anymore, but I ended up seriously depressed by the end of it. I'm not sure when the depression started as I didn't realize until it got really bad. I must have gotten used to it at some point, or perhaps I was trying to ignore it.

I didn't really understood what dysphoria was before that, but when everything got bad that did too. And then I realized I'd had it when I was around 18 and tried cross dressing. I thought that appalling feeling was just that cross dressing wasn't my thing. If only I'd known. What an idiot.

That was a really scary time, and I could see it was going to end badly if I didn't do something. I finally saw a doctor and started a transitioning dose, saw a psych, made a few decisions, and all the depression just evaporated.

If it happens again I'll end up socially transitioning, because I can't face that again.

Thank you for Luna and others contributing to this topic as I am considering the low dose non social transition and this has been very helpful.  I have a question about how easy is it to hid the breast growth during summer?  From what I understand a sports bra will compress the breasts but how do you hid the sports bra?  Fortunately I am concerned about skin cancer so I wear a rashy top when swimming and usually t shirts or shirts but would the outline of the sports bra still be visible.  Also would a sports compression singlet (eg Skins top) provide the same result as a sports bra?  I don't intend to start hrt until next year so I do have time to experiment before any changes occur.

thank you
Alexia   

Dark and loose fitting clothing hides a lot.  Swimming is harder though if you get significant nipple development, even with a rashy.

Quote from: luna nyan on August 03, 2016, 03:33:21 AM
Dark and loose fitting clothing hides a lot.  Swimming is harder though if you get significant nipple development, even with a rashy.

Hi Luna,

I've just been on low dose for a month.  My nipples have gotten slightly bigger.  They become harder and stick out rather noticeably at times.  Will this happen more and more as time goes on?  Love the feeling but it does seem to show a bit when I'm wearing a t-shirt.

Thanks,
Paige :)

Congrats Paige. Breast growth is a wonderful feeling. Sports Bra, Cami or Bra will help with that.  Hugs Shannon

Has anyone tried a ftm binding swimming top?
Danae makes some.

I found them with a google image search for FtM binding swimmingtop

I'm not sure that people really notice as much as we fear.    Or maybe they're all just polite.  Either way, I just don't worry about it.  My dysphoria is mostly under control and I fear that if I start worrying about hiding things it will come back.

Quote from: spx_1112 on August 03, 2016, 09:46:51 AM
Congrats Paige. Breast growth is a wonderful feeling. Sports Bra, Cami or Bra will help with that.  Hugs Shannon

Thanks Shannon, I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but it seems to feel right.
Paige :)

Paige. PM me if you want to stay in touch. Hugs Shannon

Quote from: Paige on August 03, 2016, 09:41:21 AM
Hi Luna,

I've just been on low dose for a month.  My nipples have gotten slightly bigger.  They become harder and stick out rather noticeably at times.  Will this happen more and more as time goes on?  Love the feeling but it does seem to show a bit when I'm wearing a t-shirt.

Thanks,
Paige :)

Nipple development varies from person to person.  As the others have said, we usually are more conscious than the other people around us, so don't worry too much unless you end up with extreme development.  :)

Quote from: luna nyan on August 04, 2016, 07:44:03 AM
Nipple development varies from person to person.  As the others have said, we usually are more conscious than the other people around us, so don't worry too much unless you end up with extreme development.  :)

Hi Luna,
No extreme here yet.  I guess I should be okay.
Thanks,
Paige :)

Thanks Luna.  I guess I can use the rashy to hide the top that I'll use to hide any nipple or breast development.  I'll probably end up having more tops on swimming then when not :)  I don't do much swimming unless on holidays with the kids (too cold in Mt Gambier) so shouldn't be too big an issue.  If worst case occurs I can come out to a select few without social transitioning.  I must admit that it seems weird that all my life I've wanted breasts but now not wanting them to be  too obvious.

And congrats Paige on your development and I'm looking forward to when I start my low dose.

Alexia

When mine were in early development (3 to 6 months, transitional dosage), they were easily viewed as 'moobs', despite my body seeming a little thin for that to be so.  It has not been till recently that they have become obvious for what they are and even my loosest shirts do not hide them really.

I would think on low dose, you should be good for a year or so.  The issue, if there is one is not so much size as shape.  I have a sister who was low dose for three years before finally 'going for it'.  At about a year and a half, she had developed a AA chest.  It was obvious to me, but only a couple of people not in the know figured anything out and then only because of a wet shirt incident.  After that first year, her breasts started to hurt and develop fuller...even for her low dose regimen.

Thanks Kaitylynn.  I guess I will monitor progress as it occurs and modify accordingly.  I'm mainly hoping the people I know won't put 2 and 2 together because its so unexpected.  But I'll prepare answers if necessary.  Plus I won't start facial hair (or other hair) removal for awhile now (which annoys me a bit) so that should help hiding.

Alexia

Quote from: alexia on August 08, 2016, 06:28:42 PM
Thanks Kaitylynn.  I guess I will monitor progress as it occurs and modify accordingly.  I'm mainly hoping the people I know won't put 2 and 2 together because its so unexpected.  But I'll prepare answers if necessary.  Plus I won't start facial hair (or other hair) removal for awhile now (which annoys me a bit) so that should help hiding.

Alexia

Facial hair removal takes a long time in a lot of cases. You ought to give some thought to starting that ASAP imho. You don't want to be forced to transition by your chest whilst in the middle of removing it. That's my worst nightmare and why I've going through it now, one year before I plan on transitioning.

Jx

I've considered facial hair removal, Jx, I even go to a beauty therapist who has had transgender clients previously.  My wife is just not ready for that yet.  The bonus is that I don't have much facial hair.  However, I'm not considering starting hrt until next year.  So I have time to renegotiate with my wife.  Ie if she prefers me to delay hrt but allows facial hair removal I'll consider it.  Also if I take to hormones to well I'll consider stopping.  The reason for the long delay and talking on the forums is that I can make as many plans and alternate plans as I can.  Although in my experience reality seldom matches theory:)

Hey Alexia,

Aside from expense, laser hair removal is something that would not really be too obvious if you shave regularly anyway, at least to people around you (IE, wife).  It would only really be obvious if you decided to let it grow out and ended up with really spotty areas of hair.  I know a few CIS men who have had laser so that they look clean all throughout the day.

Not saying that you should be dishonest with your wife.

Facial hair removal generally isn't obvious IMHO unless you're doing other stuff on the side (brows, hair etc)

Thanks Luna and KaityLynn.  I would like to start hair removal as I hate seeing the growth in the mirror.  I just have to convince my wife it won't be too noticeable and your post will give some weight to my reasoning.  But I just need patience.   Basically I love my wife and kids so a slow transition is a price for not sorting things out earlier (although I wouldn't change the past tho).  Also even my slow progress has made me happier then ever.  But is a bit frustrating:)

hugs,
Alexia

I guess the issue is my wife seems ok with me starting HRT on low dose provided its a non social transition (although that may change close to the start date).  My wife is uncomfortable (doesn't want me to start) with me starting laser facial hair removal.  So do I try and convince my wife to get facial hair removal but that may be at the cost of a few years starting HRT??  I like the idea of HRT because it may alleviate my dysphoria (which I guess most understand it drives you nuts:(

Fortunately I have a gender therapist, a psychologist, a GP and these forums to talk to so I'm confident I come up with a reasonable solution.

Alexia

Quote from: luna nyan on August 10, 2016, 10:55:13 PM
Facial hair removal generally isn't obvious IMHO unless you're doing other stuff on the side (brows, hair etc)

I find I look quite odd if I shave, but I'm not sure if other people would realize why or if they would even notice at all after a while.

Quote from: alexia on August 11, 2016, 06:27:31 PM
I guess the issue is my wife seems ok with me starting HRT on low dose provided its a non social transition (although that may change close to the start date).

The fact you are able to have this conversation is a big plus.

Quote from: alexia on August 11, 2016, 06:27:31 PMMy wife is uncomfortable (doesn't want me to start) with me starting laser facial hair removal.

This perplexes me.  If the laser technology was as developed and as relatively inexpensive as it is now, years back, I wouldn't have hesitated to get it done.  Not for dysphoria but because I hate to shave.

Quote from: alexia on August 11, 2016, 06:27:31 PMSo do I try and convince my wife to get facial hair removal but that may be at the cost of a few years starting HRT??  I like the idea of HRT because it may alleviate my dysphoria (which I guess most understand it drives you nuts:(

Going on HRT was a great help to my mental clarity and delaying it would not be my advice.  Since I am not transitioning hair removal isn't a concern of mine.  I still hate shaving but at this point I have too many gray hairs to worry about getting hair removal, so I simply shave once a month.

Best wishes with whatever the two of you decide.

Quote from: WendyA on August 11, 2016, 10:40:41 PM

This perplexes me.  If the laser technology was as developed and as relatively inexpensive as it is now, years back, I wouldn't have hesitated to get it done.  Not for dysphoria but because I hate to shave.

I agree but I understand my wife, before I accepted that I was transgender I was terrified of doing anything that highlighted that I was different.  Ie shaving legs even though I could come up with any number of excuses for a man to shave his legs.  So my wife is having the same difficulties.  She doesn't want me to do anything that would seem even slightly transgender.  Even though most of the fears are just in our heads.  It'll just take time and conversations to sort things out.

Also thank you for your best wishes.

Alexia

Hi Everyone,

Having just read this thread I have found it very useful as I, like many, feel that the socially transitioning would have a very negative impact on family and work etc.  However it is good to hear other strategies for dealing with the dysphoria.

Many thanks,

Izzy

Luna,

Thanks for the detailed depiction of your experiences--it's been very helpful for me as I consider going down a similar path.

One question: a while back you talked about the life-changing consequences of your choices, and I was wondering to what degree you think you would have felt those consequences had you stayed on a low dose instead of moving up to transition levels. Do you feel like you didn't cross the point of no return with respect to things like strength and going bare-chested until after you increased your dosage, or do you think that was the inevitable outcome regardless?

I realize that everyone's experience is different, but I'm curious about your thoughts.

Thanks again for the fantastic record of your (non)-transition!

Quote from: bspaakk on March 22, 2017, 04:53:23 AM
Luna,

Thanks for the detailed depiction of your experiences--it's been very helpful for me as I consider going down a similar path.

I'm merely treading where others have gone, but kept the thread going. :)

Quote
One question: a while back you talked about the life-changing consequences of your choices, and I was wondering to what degree you think you would have felt those consequences had you stayed on a low dose instead of moving up to transition levels. Do you feel like you didn't cross the point of no return with respect to things like strength and going bare-chested until after you increased your dosage, or do you think that was the inevitable outcome regardless?

Moving to low transition dosage was a side effect of moving away from taking E orally - it wasn't really intended.  Strength loss isn't too big a price to pay for me, and I haven't gone bare chested in years prior (it wasn't a pretty sight IMHO!).

Quote
I realize that everyone's experience is different, but I'm curious about your thoughts.

Thanks again for the fantastic record of your (non)-transition!

I'm glad it's been of help.

As to where I'm at - still in non-transition, but I would say that in certain photos, there's a degree of more male fail creeping in if you're in the know so to speak.  To a certain South Australian - yes, it's even worse than before!! :P  But I will fearlessly trudge on regardless and bluster my way along.

I will do a proper update when I finally get round to having blood work done.  I missed the 3 month one because I was too preoccupied enjoying life!

Wow;
Its been just a little under 10 months since I last posted to this thread, so I thought I should perhaps give you all an update.

To summarise I have now been back on HRT for nearly 4.5 years (Oestrogen only). It started off as a very low dose but over a period of about a year was moved up to low dose. For the first 1,5 years I had very little development, but the dysphoria was kept at bay. When I first started I had quite low levels of T in my bloodstream (something that I had suspected for many years) as well as being under normal male levels, but high for females levels.

Over the first two years as my body got used to the HRT, I gradually started to get  breakouts emotionally  and in the end I sort of slipped into a low  transitioning dose rather than dose to keep my dysphoria at bay. Following my doctors recommendations who pushed up my dosage. I take Progynova only.

In my most recent hormone assays, my T level is now down to lower than 1 (0.92)., and my Oestrogen hovering at the 240-260 levels, so hormonally I am now effectively female.

In terms of various changes:
Mentally:

These days any film sad or even happy or especially a love story (like Hidden Figures recently & the Danish Girl)  sets me off crying so much more easily.

I am also these days very happy to sit and read a woman s magazine such as Elle or Cosmo rather than a boring financial paper. In fact I just love looking at different fashions and especially makeup ideas.

Since the increase, my anxiety is all but gone, anger and depression completely lifted and I generally I feel better about myself.

Passing Privileges
Generally dressed as a woman I rarely get read, unless I make an obvious  male type gesture. For instance I was recently in Spain visiting Facial team and met up with the Jenny's Nest team and whilst there stayed in a great resort (and tried out my new one piece swim suit) living the whole time as a woman. No one gave me a second thought even whilst swimming. Mind you although overweight my  nipples are quite obvious through the fabric of the swim suit.

Female presentation:
My skin is really super soft and  girlfriends have commented on just how I have a fantastic complexion and a very feminine glow about me. On the rare occasions now that I have to present as male, I have even had comments about just youthful and fit I look from a long standing friend (who does'nt know). My beautician  always comments on how well I am looking after my face, although I do have a facial every 6-8 weeks. I also have my eyebrows shaped and tinted once every 8 weeks and my eyelashes tinted as well (Blue/Black - this gives them extra definition)

I have definitely lost male advantages. For instance I have lost the ability to open tight jam jars and have lost a lot of upper body strength, really struggling to lift bags of compost for the garden. This can be a major problem if you are transitioning but not yet full time.  Another thing is that I have lost a lot of the squareness in my shoulders. I recently had to replace my only male suit that I still had, because basically I now have quite well rounded buttocks and slightly widening hips, although my waist  is coming down and male trousers basically no longer fit (mind you  I rock a mini skirt). As i decided to get a made to measure one, the tailor surprised me by saying I would need padding in the shoulders as  I have lost a lot of the male definition with very obviously sloping shoulders.

I take my Oestrogen twice a day and certainly when I get up in the morning, my face  feels really super soft.

I have though been having a problem with my nails which seem to break all too often. Funnily enough neither little finger has this problem with both nails seeming to grow at twice the pace of other nails.

These days I like to keep both fingernails and toenails painted as much as possible. I use OPI using my colour Swtach from House of Colour to match my nail colour to my lipstick and blusher as much as possible.

Interestingly since I switched to Bare Minerals liquid foundation my overall make up looks generally so much better. (My beautician recommended it to me, and when visiting London had a makeover in Selfridges in Oxford St with them matching my skin colour. You need a special reservoir brush though.

Hair:
Unfortunately I have MPB so I am forced to wear a wig, but have three very nice human hair ones. However the doubling of my dose has caused my  hair to start growing back on my bald patch, but it is very sparse. In terms of facial hair, I have had extensive laser on my face and all bar a few on my lower lip are gone, but I still have electrolysis on the other white ones. In the last 8 months I have started getting laser on my décolleté, tummy, underarms and upper legs and bikini line and my black vellus hairs are remarkably thinning out. What body hair that I do have, is now soft and I have lost that coarseness. I do have regular waxing, but these sessions tend these days to only be needed about once every 10 weeks. Recently my beautician has persuaded me to go for a Brazilian Landing strip which looks very nice, but I am not game on a full Hollywood. My lower legs now have absolutely no hair at all.

Socially:
Although I have met a nice group of women thru Susans, I have also got involved with a number of Lesbian Social groups and this has helped tremendously in  allowing me to do more stuff socially. For most of my life I would have identified as Lesbian, but more recently as my T levels have dramatically dropped off I have often thought about whether I am bi rather than Lesbian as the  thought of having a great relationship such as Pretty pauline and others has a lot of attractions these days to me. Certainly 30 years ago  when I first transitioned I was more focussed on wanting a life as housewife and for a period lived in a very emotionally satisfying poly relationship.

Emotionally, I am pretty stable and content, but I do feel it is a bit like walking on a tightrope, especially on the rare occasions that I have (because of work) to need to switch between genders. My new suit is going to help as it neatly hides the changes effectively, so now people only see what they expect to see.

However I have most definitely lost some of my masculine edge in business terms Certainly this was very evident about 10 months ago when my doctor doubled my dosage. After just a few days I sort of went into a feminine fog!. My driving ability deteriorated. I lost the ability to judge on reversing into parking spots, I became very evidently more timid behind the wheel, and  when out working as a male visiting clients, people commented that I seemed to have lost some of my business drive. Its very clear that I have. Basically  I would so much prefer to be at a beautician having a makeover than stuck in an office listing to some man droning on about financial forecasts.  These days I love doing the housework, cooking, ironing and I have even taken up a sewing class - so maybe its just my emotions that has changed.

Physically
I have lost 2 shoe sizes and my hands and arms are smaller (mind you I have always had tiny female hands anyway, by comparison to men of my age.
These days, following a recent bra fitting at Marks & spencer in the UK (its a great free service, but you must book online), I found that I have added a Cup size and am now up to a 44C.  My nipples are always extended and if aroused or if in a swimsuit protrude very obviously. My areolae are about 5cms wide and look very feminine. These days I can only  go swimming in a one piece.

Weight wise I am struggling to lose weight - this is the oestrogen at work.  Despite being on a diet,  I don't seem to lose much but what fat is going on is in the face (very nice rounded cheeks), buttocks, breasts and now hips.
Unfortunately I still have too much male tummy deposits. If I could get rid of that  with my now widening lower torso (Buttocks and hips) and now quite well rounded breasts (After 4 years on HRT recently they have started to round out with quite significant breast tissue in the sides and armpit areas), I really would look  great and could probably wearstighter clothing, but I tend to buy outfits that hide my tummy  with dresses that are Empire or A frame and gathered under the bust.

Expected changes downstairs have occurred with the usual levels of atrophy. These days it is only possible to sit down to empty my bladder. I don't use urinals even when dressed male. One thing though is that my skin down there seems very thin and can easily bruised or get hurt. I presume again that must be the HRT at work. Anyone else find that.

My libido is very much reduced, but I absolutely love being in bed with another woman, especially now as my skin is super soft and I have just great breasts now, although I would prefer to be a cup size higher (probably DD). There is just something incredibly erotic on girl on girl body closeness.One big thing now  since the increase has been the complete absence of any erections and I have had a huge amount of shrinkage , although if I ever have GRS I do worry if that it might affect possible depth, although I think aesthetic  looks will be more important to me.

One thing that I have had in the last 10 months is a Facial team FFS consultation in Spain, but in the end they only recommended a minor facelift. Luckily I have never had an Adams Apple.  I have also had a consultation with Dr Aslani  about a possible BBL as I just adore his results.
Judith

I just discovered this thread with Judith's post. As someone who has just begun with low level HRT this week, this thread is just what I was looking for. Thanks to Luna who initiated it, all those who have added their experience,

Anne


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just found this thread as well and read from front to back... This is exactly where I'd like to start and have been quite curious as to progress of low dose non-transitioning.

Thanks for keeping this post updated luna nyan. :)

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread, especially luna nyan and judithlynn. i hope to see more updates as i ponder my future.

rachel

Hi all,

I found this thread through another forum I frequent.

I just wanted to to add my experience to this conversation so far.

At the begining of  June, I started a low dose Estrogen program in consultation with both my therapist and my GD in an effort to learn more about myself and help me find a better happier me by trying to help me answer the question of whether or not I am in fact trangender or somewhere on that spectrum.

I am on Estradiol only, with no AA, but my normal T is in the low 200s.  While it  has only been 3 weeks so far, I have noticed changes in my skin and hair.  I have not had much if any reaction down stairs.  I have noticed some aches and pains in my chest, but no signs of buds just yet.  I am hoping that is just around the corner.

As far as emotionally, I haven't noticed much change yet either.    But mentally, I'm feeling a bit happier I think, and find myself wishing I had started back in January when I had the chance the first time.  I also find myself looking forward to my next apppointment with my GD to discuss dosages and while I have gone into this program with the intent to take things very slow and deliberate, and understanding that my GD likely will not prescribe an increase dosage until the 3 month mark, I find myself wishing I was on a higher dose. 

And contrary to what some people believe about he slipery slope of MtF HRT, I'm not quite ready to say that the desire for a higher dose is a direct result of me actually being transgender.

Quote from: Myranda on June 29, 2017, 01:54:54 PM
Hi all,

I found this thread through another forum I frequent.

I just wanted to to add my experience to this conversation so far.

At the begining of  June, I started a low dose Estrogen program in consultation with both my therapist and my GD in an effort to learn more about myself and help me find a better happier me by trying to help me answer the question of whether or not I am in fact trangender or somewhere on that spectrum.

I am on Estradiol only, with no AA, but my normal T is in the low 200s.  While it  has only been 3 weeks so far, I have noticed changes in my skin and hair.  I have not had much if any reaction down stairs.  I have noticed some aches and pains in my chest, but no signs of buds just yet.  I am hoping that is just around the corner.

As far as emotionally, I haven't noticed much change yet either.    But mentally, I'm feeling a bit happier I think, and find myself wishing I had started back in January when I had the chance the first time.  I also find myself looking forward to my next apppointment with my GD to discuss dosages and while I have gone into this program with the intent to take things very slow and deliberate, and understanding that my GD likely will not prescribe an increase dosage until the 3 month mark, I find myself wishing I was on a higher dose. 

And contrary to what some people believe about he slipery slope of MtF HRT, I'm not quite ready to say that the desire for a higher dose is a direct result of me actually being transgender.

Hi Myranda,

Welcome to the low dose club :) 

Curious about your last comment.  What do you think the reason for wanting a higher dose would be if it's not being transgender?  Could it be that it just makes you happier? If that's the reason, why would it make you happier.  Non transgender men are usually quite miserable on E.

Take care and good luck,
Paige :)

Paige,

I'm not quite sure yet at this point.  It may be pyschosomatic it could be some other psychological reason, or I just may still not be ready to completely admit it to myself just yet.  Maybe I just want some of the female physical changes like breasts.

I'm still trying to sort through it all in a diagnostic kind of way.  But the last day or so, I have felt a bit "happier", but I'm not sure if it is from the Estrogen or not.  And while I believe I would be happy of relieved if the Estrogen was the reason i logically feel that it is still to soon to know for sure.  I am cautiously taking it as a good sign though.

Quote from: Myranda on June 29, 2017, 03:45:25 PM
Paige,

I'm not quite sure yet at this point.  It may be pyschosomatic it could be some other psychological reason, or I just may still not be ready to completely admit it to myself just yet.  Maybe I just want some of the female physical changes like breasts.

I'm still trying to sort through it all in a diagnostic kind of way.  But the last day or so, I have felt a bit "happier", but I'm not sure if it is from the Estrogen or not.  And while I believe I would be happy of relieved if the Estrogen was the reason i logically feel that it is still to soon to know for sure.  I am cautiously taking it as a good sign though.

Hi Myranda,

No worries, everybody has to figure what's right for them.  It's a tough situation and you should take all the time you need to figure what's best for you.  I'm glad you're a bit happier, whether it's the E or not.

Take care,
Paige :)

Quote from: Myranda on June 29, 2017, 01:54:54 PM
Hi all,

I found this thread through another forum I frequent.

I just wanted to to add my experience to this conversation so far.

At the begining of  June, I started a low dose Estrogen program in consultation with both my therapist and my GD in an effort to learn more about myself and help me find a better happier me by trying to help me answer the question of whether or not I am in fact trangender or somewhere on that spectrum.

I am on Estradiol only, with no AA, but my normal T is in the low 200s.  While it  has only been 3 weeks so far, I have noticed changes in my skin and hair.  I have not had much if any reaction down stairs.  I have noticed some aches and pains in my chest, but no signs of buds just yet.  I am hoping that is just around the corner.

As far as emotionally, I haven't noticed much change yet either.    But mentally, I'm feeling a bit happier I think, and find myself wishing I had started back in January when I had the chance the first time.  I also find myself looking forward to my next apppointment with my GD to discuss dosages and while I have gone into this program with the intent to take things very slow and deliberate, and understanding that my GD likely will not prescribe an increase dosage until the 3 month mark, I find myself wishing I was on a higher dose. 

And contrary to what some people believe about he slipery slope of MtF HRT, I'm not quite ready to say that the desire for a higher dose is a direct result of me actually being transgender.

Hi Myranda

Welcome to Susan's. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Glad to hear you have had such a positive result from the low dose HRT. Taking a cautious approach and testing out the waters is an excellent idea and seems to be paying off for you.

I am curious, has it been suggested to you that once you start HRT then its just a forgone conclusion that you will go on to full dose and transition?


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ElizabethK
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Quote from: ElizabethK on June 30, 2017, 07:02:57 AM
Hi Myranda

Welcome to Susan's. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Glad to hear you have had such a positive result from the low dose HRT. Taking a cautious approach and testing out the waters is an excellent idea and seems to be paying off for you.

I am curious, has it been suggested to you that once you start HRT then its just a forgone conclusion that you will go on to full dose and transition?

Thank you for the warm welcome.

While no one has specifically suggested to me directly, yes it has been suggested. I am curiois if that is what is behind my recent onterest on wanting to up my dose  after such a short time or of it ia more of an impatience thing.

Quote from: Myranda on June 30, 2017, 09:02:02 AM
Thank you for the warm welcome.

While no one has specifically suggested to me directly, yes it has been suggested. I am curiois if that is what is behind my recent onterest on wanting to up my dose  after such a short time or of it ia more of an impatience thing.

It was not something I had heard said often so was just a bit curious. There is nothing wrong with wanting to increase HRT. Is this the opening to you for Transition or is there still more exploring?

I hope you find your peace

Quote from: ElizabethK on June 30, 2017, 09:09:05 AM
It was not something I had heard said often so was just a bit curious. There is nothing wrong with wanting to increase HRT. Is this the opening to you for Transition or is there still more exploring?

I hope you find your peace

I am still trying to figure things out. Sometimes I am not opoosed to fully transitioning and excited about that prospect. Amd other days i am terrified. But most days I am just open minded about it and want to experience real breasts.

Met with my GD yesterday after 1 month on Estradiol.  She doubled my dose and ordered some bloodwork.  My T came back today at 180.  THis time last year it was 194, so no real change there.  She did not mention my Estradiol levels, but I cannot remember if she ordered that lab work as well.  When I met with her yesterday we discussed the pros and cons of adding a Testosterone blocker, and after seeing my levels today, I decided to try that out and check my potassium and T levels in a couple of weeks on that.

On what dose of estrogen were you when you started transition? and what does of AA? I am a guy who want to feminize without boobs but i know thats not possible but you developed AAA size and i don't mind that. I would like to know your dosage if its not a secret. It will be of great help because i will be able to discuss with my therapist.

Just a quick reminder that we are not alowed to discuss actual dosages as per  TOS:8 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)

ElizabethK
Global Moderator

So it's been 1 year since the last pellet was inserted.
Bloods: 389pmol/L E, effectively no T.  Everything else was well within normal ranges.  We forgot to get haemoglobin and haematocrit tested.

I'm effectively in a steady state - development has effectively stopped which is what I wanted.  I had another pellet inserted (same as previous dose), much as I was tempted to go higher - I need to remember that I am playing a long game here.

Physically, I definitely now notice the loss of strength - a lot of things now require more planning and effort.  Body hair is now thin and wispy, and the libido is basically indifferent.

Emotionally, things have been the same, with the same level of emotional lability, and the dysphoria is manageable.

Quote from: luna nyan on July 20, 2017, 08:19:06 AMPhysically, I definitely now notice the loss of strength - a lot of things now require more planning and effort.  Body hair is now thin and wispy, and the libido is basically indifferent.

Emotionally, things have been the same, with the same level of emotional lability, and the dysphoria is manageable.

A few Qs:

why more planning? I get the loss of strength but what does it have to do with planning?

Libido indifferent as in none?

Some of us from time to time have to do heavy lifting of weight right at or above our limits. This require we carefully consider our approach so we don't get hurt. One example would be if I were to lift a window air conditioner. The heavy side has the compressor so I would want to be on the other side. That reduces my lift by 15 or 20 pounds. I also use a dolly to move heavy stuff rather than grabbing it and carrying it off. No more me Tarzan when it comes to working with weight. I am fortunate in that I never had muscle so my lost was minimal however this caused me to learn working smart at a young age.

Quote from: KayXo on July 20, 2017, 10:33:30 AM
why more planning? I get the loss of strength but what does it have to do with planning?

Libido indifferent as in none?

As Dena said, I have enough occasions where I need to lift heavy weights, or alternatively do something that requires good hand strength.  Instead of brute forcing my way through these situations, I now think about how to finesse my way around the issue at hand.  The loss of general athleticism is quite significant as well - my vertical leap has decreased by about 20-25%.

Libido is essentially non-existent, it takes a decent amount of mental stimulation to get the engine going so to speak.

Much of the strength loss can be reduced through proper training and diet.  This includes grip strength and leg and back strength which are the main heavy weight lifting muscles.

For me, the biggest effect of HRT has been a decreased aerobic capacity that is highly resistant to my efforts to get it back to previous levels.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Ditto on what Dena, Luna and Deborah said. At 7 months into it I think through heavy lifting of any kind the dolly has become my friend. It's not so bad. I have a rather butch friend who I've observed doing a lot of physical labor that I learned from - she does amazing things physically without hurting herself. I also discovered that it's ok to ask for help and it's good to have a 21 YO son around  :) - Thanks Luna for updating!

I'm new at this topic. But my low dose experience over 2 weeks opened my eyes. I starded spiro (medium dose)  3 and a half months ago, and low dose E 2 weeks ago. My doctor want to start E very low and ramp it up. So my plan was to increase as fast as I was allowed. But with this combination,  my dysphorea is gone. I'm thinking: Maybe this is enough... Some part of me want to transition as fast as possible, because of the changes of my body. But my mind says: Don't hurry, you will get there anyway...
I already got boob-growth (started with aa-cup because of phytoestrogens), but I already got a full A. And they are growing fast. My ex-wife says it is facinating how fast they grow (I massage them 45 min erery night). I can't afford facial hair removing now, I think that is a reason for slow path. I don't want to be the bearded lady...  ;D

Hi All,

This is a very useful thread.  Thank you Luna for starting it.

So last week I went with my wife to her therapist.  Her therapist has been involved with gender therapy for years and is very well connected to the Ontario area gender therapy community. 

I told her that I was on low dose E to try to manage my dysphoria.  She told me she had never heard of transgender people doing this and would ask her colleagues if any of them had heard of this.

This sort of amazed me.  I was expecting that she would of least heard of this, maybe not agree with it, but heard of it.  Do any of you know how common this type of therapy is.

Thanks,
Paige :)

Yes thanks must beginning  my self... Just twice the dose a  cis female would take ....hell I work with a 90 % male work force..... Hmmmm

This thread looks relevant to my issues, but I wonder if anyone in-the-know could give me a run-down?

I'm looking for a regimen which will give me mental changes but minimal irreversible physical changes. So low-dose HRT is an obvious starting point, but it sounds like breast-growth etc. are unavoidable (just delayed). Can anyone comment on this? Maybe if I took little Spiro and less Estrogen?

Quote from: Autrement on November 23, 2015, 02:01:19 PM
Since 4 months on both low anti-andro and E, I experience reduction in dysphoria, both physically and in relationships, with more emotions and easier connection to others.

I am thinking of reducing or removing E if at some point in time, too much feminisation becomes a problem for my life as a male.


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

I'm new here, so I don't know how to DM or 'reply,' but in case quoting causes a prompt, would you mind giving an update? And could you specify what your dosage was?

Quote from: Gasket on October 08, 2017, 05:12:04 PM
...would you mind giving an update? And could you specify what your dosage was?

Discussion of actual dosages is not allowed per the forums rules.

Take as little as you can while still getting the mental effects. Since no sex hormones cause osteoporosis I'd be careful taking antiandrogens and insufficient estrogen.

Quote from: Gasket on October 08, 2017, 05:12:04 PM
I'm new here, so I don't know how to DM or 'reply,' but in case quoting causes a prompt, would you mind giving an update? And could you specify what your dosage was?

I have now been on HRT for the past thirteen months. The initial six months was on a low dosage regime with both E and Spiro. During that period there was a noticeable reduction in dysphoria, with also a noticeable reduction in anger and bitterness. The changes physically during that period were very slow and minimal. Everyone experiences different reactions with HRT and how it affects each individual. I can only offer you what I have experienced and give you that as an example. By talking to your doctor they should be able to give you some thoughts on what you may experience, by all means make sure that they monitor your blood work during that period to make sure that there are no side effects.  Since then there has been a steady increase in my dosage and with that increase it has brought increased physical changes that have become noticeable. Mentally I am in much better place with increased emotional feelings and with dysphoria becoming something that I rarely experience anymore. I truly feel that my mind and my body have finally aligned as one at this point in my transition. If you take it slow and be aware of the changes as they occur you should be able to monitor the effects and maintain a place in your life where you are comfortable, and with your dosage levels. Hope this helps, hugs.

Quote from: Gasket on October 08, 2017, 05:12:04 PM
I'm new here, so I don't know how to DM or 'reply,' but in case quoting causes a prompt, would you mind giving an update? And could you specify what your dosage was?

Since 2 years and 3 months I keep taking moderate dose of E and very low androcur (antiandro prescribed in Europe). It is not allowed to say how much here. But I just tried and easily found the minimum dose that works for me. It really helps. I live a happy life (although still presenting as a male), enjoying time with my wife (supportive), my children and my friends. I am much calmer, much more able to focus on what makes sense for me. Since then, I have been able to write a book on philosophical matters and find a more interesting job... probably I dare to do more than before.
Body changes are minimal, not noticeable as long as I wear anything.

I started on the very lowest dose offered of spiro and estradiol 3 months ago, only increasing the estra to alleviate waves of hot flashes.  My skin is softer and hair slightly slower growing; physical strength is down a bit, perhaps.  Occasional puffiness or soreness in the breasts, no real growth yet.  Immediately I felt a lot more at ease.  I've had a couple of emotional outbursts that were really powerful, and wholly transitory, too.  What was that!   ??? 

QuoteI already got boob-growth (started with aa-cup because of phytoestrogens), but I already got a full A. And they are growing fast. My ex-wife says it is facinating how fast they grow (I massage them 45 min erery night).

I wonder if massaging would kickstart things for me.

I'm having hormone labs done anyway tomorrow, so will know where my levels are.  Like Luna I probably shouldn't rush things at this stage, though.

Quote from: Lucy Ross on October 09, 2017, 05:05:48 PM
I wonder if massaging would kickstart things for me.

Isn't the point of low dose to avoid starting any changes?

Quote from: AnonyMs on October 10, 2017, 12:16:05 AM
Isn't the point of low dose to avoid starting any changes?

Not necessarily.  Depends on the person. 

But since everyone reacts differently to changes in their hormonal make up, you do not want to just start at the highest dose.  It is not safe.

Some people, just want to quiet the noise, others are not sure about what they want, and others just need to get started.  And for others still, it is about figuring out what works for them and sorting out what they want and need to be functioning and happy.

Me personally, I started HRT with no plans on transitioning, was welcoming of some noticable changes, but wasn't really sure what I wanted in terms of transitioning.  So when I say I had no plans on transitioning.  I do not if I am truly transgender, or somewhere in the middle, or if my gender identity issues are merely symptoms of other psychological issues.

The point is, there are as many different reasons to start a HRT  of any strength/dose as there are people who feel the need to do so.

But please do not try to do it on your own.  Seek professional help in monitoring your health, psychologically and physically.

Thanks for chiming in, Myranda, that explains things nicely.

I'd love to dive in to transitioning fully but need to take things at a slow pace.   Seeing a bit of minor physical change would be acceptable for me at the moment; I've upped my dosages slightly, to see what happens.  The veterans at this modify their levels all the time, notice.

Also I'm just curious about these things.

Quote from: Lucy Ross on October 12, 2017, 04:13:15 PM
Thanks for chiming in, Myranda, that explains things nicely.

I'd love to dive in to transitioning fully but need to take things at a slow pace.   Seeing a bit of minor physical change would be acceptable for me at the moment; I've upped my dosages slightly, to see what happens.  The veterans at this modify their levels all the time, notice.

Also I'm just curious about these things.

You are most welcome, I am glad I could be of help. 

But also don't let the terms "low dose" ,  "Full dose" , "transition dose" or "medium dose or "half dose" or anything other term like that full you.  What is one person's full transition dose, may be another person's low dose.

Its all about the blood chemistry and how those hormone levels make you, the individual feel.  I have naturally low T, and I'm now on what might be considered by many a full dose of E, but mentally & psychologically, I don't feel any different, not better and definitely not worse.  As you can see from my ticker in my signature, I've been on E now for just over 4 months.  I still have no plans to transition, not sure I want to transition or what I want from all of this.  [though some development upstairs might be nice :) ], but I'm working closely with my therapist and my GD to figure this crazy thing out for myself on my terms.  So I guess in that sense, I am happier now, than I was 9 months ago.

Quote from: Myranda on October 12, 2017, 06:36:04 PM
But also don't let the terms "low dose" ,  "Full dose" , "transition dose" or "medium dose or "half dose" or anything other term like that full you.  What is one person's full transition dose, may be another person's low dose.

I like the terms low dose and full/transitioning, but it don't mean much given that there's no standard dose. I prefer to think of low dose as that dose that's not effective in physically transitioning, and it clearly depends on the individual what it actually is.

True enough, I suppose, a low dose isn't really going to start changing you in any noticible way very quickly.  What it may do, is alter your emotional and mental outlook on things enough to make you comfortable.  But then again everyone is different.

Hi Everyone;
Well its been 7 months since I gave a detailed post on my progress, which I will do soon, but I thought I would recount a session I just had last weekend with my beauty therapist. Basically winter is just ending and with spring in the air, I decided it was about time to get my pre summer waxing underway.  This way I can dump my jeans and pants and get back into summer dresses , short skirts and shorts, plus sleeveless dresses and I even have a boob tube! Anyway  I urgently needed a full leg wax, bikini line (actually a brazilian just leaving a landing strip), underarms and full arms.

Anyway whilst doing the waxing, my beauty therapist commented on how soft my body hair had become and how easy it came off. She was even surprised about my pubic hair. As she said, before it was quite coarse, but now its soft and downy. Also I basically have no hair now on my back except a few really soft ones in the small of my back and on my buttocks (that are almost barely noticeable). I have no hair on my lower legs and on my upper legs, thighs and hips what hair I do have is sparse and very soft. In fact I am finding that I can go without another wax until well into summer.  Mind you I have to admit that I have had 4 sessions of laser hair removal on my décolleté., underarms and tummy down to my pubic bone, so I think that has some effect combined with the estradiol treatments. It will be so great to have no body hair at all.

I thought it might be useful to put in an update on my experiences, in that this November, my Australian doctor added Progesterone to my Oestrogen only hormone therapy. For the last 4.5 years I have been on an Oestrogen only regime  taking tablets twice a day. One at night time around 10pm and one in the morning around 10am.  The important thing as explained by my doctor is that over time the amount of Oestrogen was building up in the system and at my last reading was just over 608 (previously it was 280). Apparently anything over 600 is the normal level of a female over 25 years up to Menopause. My doctor has indicated that he would like it up to about 800 to achieve the best level of feminisation. At long last my T Level is now down to below the maximum level of a natal born female (2.5) in that it has fallen to below 1.0 (Current reading 0.9).

Anyway in Australia Micronised Progesterone  - Promethium became available in tablet format about 4 months ago and surprisingly my doctor decided to put me on a tablet (Dosage not specified) per night, with me taking it with my Oestrogen tablet and a normal hot milk drink (not skinny milk). Apparently taken with fatty foods it doubles its absorption rate.

My doctor and pharmacist have explained that for the first 3 months (at a minimum) they want me to take my Progesterone tablet continuously until the Progesterone builds up in the  body. After 3 months the pharmacist has recommended that I switch to a monthly cycle to mimic a natal born female cycle i.e. from Day 15 to Day 30 with my Oestrogen tablet, but not until my body has fully adjusted.

To date I have been on  1 tablet at 10pm for the last 20 days. Already I have experienced the following interesting observations:
1. My fingernails are much stronger and are growing again. For the last 4 years they have been very brittle and rarely grow except the small finger.  I have recently noticed that they look really nice again especially since they have been manicured
2. Unlike other women who have countenance a weight gain issue and urgency to eat, I have found the opposite with actually less urgent need to stuff myself full of food.
3. I have needed to drink a lot more water (and of course this has led to more trips to the loo!)
4. Suprisinly my MPB (male pattern baldness is growing hair back again - I think that may be because of the doubling of my Oestrogen dosage.
5.  I  have gained an 1" on my buttocks and I have an emerging waist. It might be a bit illusionary, but two cis gendered women who know me, but haven't seen me in more than 6 months have separately commented on it.
7. I really have noticed more fullness to my breasts (especially in the upper pole area). It is only very slight, but definitely improving. My areolae are bigger and more pink. My nipples already seem erect all the time, but are now much more noticeable though clothes.
8. I am really sleeping very deeply when I go to bed and getting 7-8 hours of deep sleep, except when the night time temperature exceeds 34C. The Progesterone is very particularly having this effect
9. I have had less sleepy days from the Oestrogen
10.Progesterone also seems to have a role in my skin elasticity. It is even more soft than before.
11. It seems to be causing water retention in my breasts resulting in temporary enlargement
12. I haven't seen this yet, but a girlfriend in Canberra has successfully managed to achieve lobuloalveolar development of her breasts necessary for lactation for her and her partners new born baby (my girlfriend in MtoF TG woman)This has apparently suppressed lactation initiation and triggered lactation upon withdrawal

On the down side I have found that I have been getting constipated a bit and have had muscle cramps especially in my feet, but overall I have felt so much better and more alive.

It's very difficult too put my finger on it how to differentiate this, but I have felt more complete from a womanly point of view.

CIS Girlfriends have noticed that I am far less irritable and much more relaxed. One said "I don't know what has happened recently, but you seem to be so much more feminine and gentle in your  presentation and you see to have a sereneness about you"
JudithLynn

Hi Judithlynn,

That's absolutely amazing progress.  I'm very happy for you.  😊   

Quote from: judithlynn on November 27, 2017, 01:25:00 AM
have had muscle cramps especially in my feet.

Whenever I start to get muscle cramps in my legs and feet, I take a bit of salt.  The cramps seem to go away quickly after that.

Take care,
Paige 😊

Progesterone is similar to spiro insofar as it is a diuretic due to its anti-mineralocorticoid properties so more salt might be what's needed, especially considering you're peeing more.

Its been about 6 months since I posted on this luna Nyan  conversation about low dosage. So here is an update:
I have been on a combined Oestrogen and Progesterone regime now for nearly a year (4.5 years on Oestrogen only). I am on a 14 days Oestrogen only regime (taken twice a day) and 14 days on the combined regime. I take Promethium at night time after my evening Oestrogen tablet. Promethium tends to make me very sleepy and it apparently promotes a relaxed sleep. Since commencing it, for the last 14 days I find that I am emotionally very stable and  just feel very feminine and a lot more relaxed. In fact on those weeks I find myself enjoying life immensely as a woman, buying new clothes, meeting girlfriends, going out looking very feminine in a dress or skirt etc, whereas in the first two weeks, I find I just want to lounge about in jeans, and the grungy look, not bothering with make-up. Its almost as though I feel that I am a complete woman on the second 14 day period. But by the end of the month I find the combined regime very cloying (unpleasantly excessive) and know by then I need to be off it back to my Oestrogen only regime.

However during the first 14 days of the month, my Oestrogen levels are generally quite high (I should point out my T levels now are below 0.9). Around about the 12th day of the month I get a sort of PMS. I get very moody, cry a lot at the slightest thing. I even get tummy cramps. My BFF tells me it is probably just physiological (especially when I am staying with her) as there are anecdotal evidence of women synching. The theory behind the syncing of menstrual cycles is that women's pheromones interact when they are in close proximity, causing them to have their period at the same time.

Overall during the second half of the month . my breasts appear to get fuller and more rounded and definitely feel heavier and really fill out my C Cup bras, whereas on my first cycle are less so. My skin is also super-soft on the 2nd part of the month. Also my libido rises on the second cycle and I generally seem to notice men's scent  then. My nails are a lot less brittle and overall stronger. Also  my body hair has become very vellus type and lighter and in some parts especially my décolleté and tummy and pubic region almost completely disappeared (mind you  I have had laser treatment there), but re-growth has been almost non existent.

Since starting on  Progesterone, my buttocks have become quite rounded. I have added about 4" to my buttocks and hips and I have also put on fatty tissue on my thighs and lower abdomen  below the belly button band down to the Pubis.
Overall I really like the results, but I am not sure I could take a full month on the combined regime.
Judith

Thanks for posting the update Judithlynn,  I've be on low dose E for almost 2 years.  It's always good to hear the experiences of others with this approach.

Take care,
Paige :)

I really appreciate this thread. It is full of useful information for those of us contemplating taking this path. Please keep it going.

A lot of interesting info here.  I'm planning on starting HRT soon.  I've been on dutasteride for a couple of years for BPH, so I shouldn't need another antiandrogen.  I'm currently a 38A, so I already have a head start on some here, in that regard.

Thanks for the update.  Lots of good information.   Good to know!!

Thanks
again

Quote from: KayXo on February 25, 2015, 04:36:58 PM
I don't think so, breast growth is part of the package.

That's what I'm hoping for!

Quote from: luna nyan on November 21, 2012, 08:05:19 AM

<snip>
hydration has become much more important, and if I'm dehydrated, I can develop cramps fairly easily.
<snip>

Aha!! I got the worst charlie horse (cramp) in my calf yesterday and I could not figure out why that would happen when I am on Spiro, a drug known to make the body retain potassium. I shall drink more water.

I see you. I accept you. I thank you,

Ricki

Quote from: Ricki Wright on February 26, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
Aha!! I got the worst charlie horse (cramp) in my calf yesterday and I could not figure out why that would happen when I am on Spiro, a drug known to make the body retain potassium. I shall drink more water.

I see you. I accept you. I thank you,

Ricki

Also make sure you're eating enough table salt. Any food that has a salty taste will work as well. On the site, the most prized food is dill pickles including the juice. If the salt tastes really good, you're not eating enough of it.

Quote from: Dena on February 26, 2019, 12:35:03 PM
Also make sure you're eating enough table salt. Any food that has a salty taste will work as well. On the site, the most prized food is dill pickles including the juice. If the salt tastes really good, you're not eating enough of it.

I read your reply and started salivating uncontrollably. No pickles in the house right now so I found some chips and salsa. Tomorrow: Jar of pickles.

Ricki

I'm still alive.

Not much to report though.  E levels staying high enough to keep me happy till last month before the next appointment, so at last pellet insertion we increased the dosage.  I'm now sitting on a pellet dosage that is close to a transition dose.

Still no social transition.  Visible physical changes have tapered off so I'm getting away with higher dosages without too much scrutiny.

Mentally things have been steady - quite happily living my life as is.

Physiologically things changes are quite noticeable these days  My testosterone levels are just about non-existant so recovery from hard exercise is poor - I do have to plan my exercise regime carefully to avoid over training.  The biggest issue still is cramping - salt is still my best friend.

Hi Luna,

Glad you're still doing well. I'm 3+ years low E.  I'm told I look very young for my age of 56.  Breasts are almost an A but I can still hide them.  I do crave a full transition dose now but the low dose has definitely helped delay things.

Thanks for starting this thread.
Paige :) 

Thank you Paige and Luna, for toi experiences.
I am now nearly 4 years on E + T blocker, on transition dose since a year or so, still no social transition, but I wonder if I will not decide to do it in a few months.

Do you think you might socially transition at some point?

Hugs.

Pascale

Quote from: Autrement on March 18, 2019, 01:28:07 AM
Thank you Paige and Luna, for toi experiences.
I am now nearly 4 years on E + T blocker, on transition dose since a year or so, still no social transition, but I wonder if I will not decide to do it in a few months.

Do you think you might socially transition at some point?

Hugs.

Pascale

Hi Pascale,

I debate full transitioning daily.  It would be so nice to finally be myself and not hide anymore.  I have a wife of 30+ years and two daughters in their early twenties.  My whole calculation is based on whether my transitioning will be too disruptive for their lives. 

My wife is not supportive, she barely tolerates me being transgender and taking low dose E.  She hates my body changes.   I get it, she's not a lesbian and embarrassed by me.  It appears that something will soon have to give because this is driving us both crazy.

I look at low dose as a delaying tactic.  I don't think of it as a cure for dysphoria but a coping mechanism. As long as I still see some small changes forward, I'm okay.  I've tried to stop or reduce my dose a few times and I became extremely depressed.  I can't think about life without transitioning at some point.  It's a hope that keeps me going.

Pascale good luck with your transition decision.   I have a feeling I'll be following you at some point.
Take care,
Paige :)

Many thanks Paige.
I am in the same situation with a 30 year happy marriage to a wife who is not a lesbian...

Hugs.

Pascale

My experience low dose HRT for 3 years:

I have been prescribed 1 mg of Estradiol (pill) that I have been taking for three years now.  I'm also prescribed Spironolactone <dosage removed> which I have never taken because I don't want to deal with erectile dysfunction.  I think my Dr knows that I'm not taking the Spiro but it's not discussed.  All of my levels look healthy (from blood and urine tests): testosterone is low for a dude but high for a woman, estrogen is low for a woman but high for a man, kidney and liver labs all come back healthy.  My "bad cholesterol" increased, recently, but I think that's because I went Keto.

Overall I really love my little Estradiol pills.

I went full time 1 year ago and it's been going great.  Life fits much better and I don't have to pretend to be a dude anymore.

I grew almost no boob on HRT but my Dr said there's been some growth.  I got implants about 8 months ago.

My skin hasn't changed that I'm aware of.  I've gotten a lot of Sculptra and I'm fanatic about (toxin free) skin care so my skin looks pretty good for a 47 year old.

There has been no erectile dysfunction in fact I would say that there's been an  increase in erectile functioning but that doesn't make any sense to me scientifically. 

Erogenous zones have widened and are no longer restricted to the original locations.  Sex has gotten better overall since starting Estradiol.

No change in the hair on my head that I'm aware of.

Body hair hasn't changed except with laser hair removal. 

Facial hair was already gone before starting HRT.

Mood changes were severe when I started HRT for two weeks and then calmed down.  When I've gone off HRT before surgeries my mood gets wacky but I expect it so it's tolerable.

My ex boyfriend said that my body shape is more feminine now than it was 2 years ago in regards to fat redistribution.  Keeping the fat off is a LOT more difficult now.

If I decide to have bottom surgery I will go higher with the doses as well as take testosterone blockers (spiro).

Quote from: Autrement on March 18, 2019, 01:28:07 AM
Thank you Paige and Luna, for toi experiences.
I am now nearly 4 years on E + T blocker, on transition dose since a year or so, still no social transition, but I wonder if I will not decide to do it in a few months.

Do you think you might socially transition at some point?

Hugs.

Pascale

I won't  say I'll never socially transition because that's pretty absolute, but I would say it's unlikely as I'm reasonably content and the social/financial costs of transitioning aren't worth it for me at this point in time.

This whole thread was very insightful and informative.

This goes to show that low or moderate or high dose is not the same for everyone and that terms like low dose or high dose are vague.

I personally am on 1/2 of what my GP considers a regular E-dose and I absolutely feel great on this. My levels are always fabulous and in the female range. I didn't even need a T-blocker. A bit of E was all I needed to drive my T-levels into the abyss.

Good for the liver and for my wallet :-D

Very great results here with "low" dose. My breasts have grown to almost a C-cup ( EU-size), my hip bones have widened and my skin is super soft. My face also significantly changed to the point that people thought I had had FFS when it were just the changes HRT had given me.
I seem to be very responsive to estrogen.

QuoteOverall I really love my little Estradiol pills.

Me too.

Hi Girls;

Well it has been nearly 10 months since I last posted my progress on the Luna Nyan conversation. Here is what my situation is.

I have been on a combined Oestrogen and Progesterone regime now for nearly two years (6.5 years on Oestrogen only) and just under 2 years on Prometrium. I am on a 14 days Oestrogen only regime (taken twice a day at 10am and 10pm) and 14 days on the combined regime. I take Prometrium at night time after my evening Oestrogen tablet. Prometrium tends to make me very sleepy and it apparently promotes a relaxed sleep.

Since commencing it, for the last 14 days I find that I am emotionally very stable and just feel very feminine and a lot more relaxed.

In the last 6 months I have had some minor surgery with another bit (repair of a small hernia )due soon. For these periods I was asked to stop my HRT program three weeks before surgery. I found this period very difficult, in that after 2 weeks I had recurrence of the dysphoria again which combined to make me very depressed.  However once back on  my combined regime, 1 week after surgery I was much better, although on the combined regime I noticed that I had  the recurrence of symptoms such as Hot flashes, morning headache and brief nausea. My Endo explained that was because of my body re-adjusting to  from my low levels of Estrogen and Progesterone.

I am still on the 14 day cycle regime with my Progesterone as, although my Endo has suggested now the i should do it continuously  I do find that by Day 28, the progesterone felt very cloying and I need the break.. However interestingly when I cycled down before the surgery from 2 tablets of my Oestrogen to 1 and then to zero, I found that one plus the Progesterone capsule at night didn't have the same effect.

Interestingly in the last 12 months, despite reaching a plateau with breast growth at the 5 year level 44C (small C) in the weeks on the combined regime I have been getting bouts of itching and soreness in my Areolae and Nipples again every month. During this latter 14 day period, my nipples seem to be permanently erect and my nipples have now grown exponentially into very obviously womanly nipples. They are about 6cms wide now.

I have also had upper pole growth of my breasts and also much more tissue in the breasts especially towards the armpit. This makes them look more rounded, however unless pressed together in  a balconnet bra, I still don't have the volume to give me a good cleavage.

My Oestrogen levels are overall now quite high each month at last reading in February it was 498 pmol/L and Progestrogen as  14.9 nmol/L, with my T levels under 1.0. Interestingly my Prolactin levels were 283 mIU/L (My endo checked it  in relation to the Progesterone levels)

I am still finding that I get the PMS type feelings around the 12th to 14th of every month A when I get very moody, cry a lot at the slightest thing and even get tummy cramps. My skin is also super-soft on the 2nd part of the month. Also my libido rises on the second cycle and I generally seem to notice men's scent then.

My nails are a lot less brittle and overall stronger. Also  my body hair has become very vellus type and lighter and in some parts especially my décolleté and tummy and pubic region almost completely disappeared (mind you  I have had laser treatment there), but re-growth has been almost non existent. I recently had a full bikini line wax  with a bermuda triangle with a very satisfying result. I then followed with laser treatment of the area after three weeks. Now 13 weeks later, I have had almost no re-growth and what hair there is, is very soft and downy.

Since starting on  Progesterone, my buttocks have become quite rounded. I have continued to add fat to my buttocks and girlfriends and men have commented on how I now have a very nice rounded bottom and apparently I am getting a pronounced S curve from my back to buttocks

I have also put on fatty tissue on my thighs and lower abdomen  below the belly button and down to the Pubis.

My Endo said this is atypical womens fat

Overall I really like the results, but I am not sure I could take a full month on the combined regime.
Judith

It would be nice to go on low dose HRT, just to deal with my dysphoria. However I cannot due to my current situation.

Quote from: VivianB on May 16, 2019, 12:24:47 PM
It would be nice to go on low dose HRT, just to deal with my dysphoria. However I cannot due to my current situation.

Why can't you?  My endo has me on what he calls low dose, but it's certainly having an effect on my breasts.

Quote from: AnneK on May 16, 2019, 12:28:44 PM
Why can't you?  My endo has me on what he calls low dose, but it's certainly having an effect on my breasts.

I have a very violent and transphobic brother who comes over every Saturday.

Quote from: VivianB on May 16, 2019, 12:51:46 PM
I have a very violent and transphobic brother who comes over every Saturday.

Sorry, I wasn't aware of that.  Is there anyway you can stop him from coming over?

Quote from: AnneK on May 16, 2019, 12:53:00 PM
Sorry, I wasn't aware of that.  Is there anyway you can stop him from coming over?

Not really. I am still looking into ways to stop him. If I can stop him then I hope I can start low HRT.