I thought I should probably start another thread to document my surgery and results so as not to hijack someone else's thread. I'll be in Seoul at the end of February for this surgery and I'm getting really excited. I pass fine in person and even on the phone usually so my voice isn't terrible, but I'm excited about the prospect of not really having to think about it that much, and possibly being able to sing again. I've been full-time since last year and I've got the resonance down, so with a pitch increase I'm hoping it sounds very natural and feminine. I love Jenny, Abby, and Sarah's results! I am thinking of staying at the Gangnam Artnouveau hotel where Abby stayed because I like the idea of a kitchenette and laundry in the suite in case I'm not feeling up to eating out for every meal. My friend is coming with me so I'm hoping we'll have a lot of time to sightsee and shop between the surgery and followup.
Here are some of the activities I'm thinking of doing:
-Shopping in myeong dong for fashion/makeup (tons of free makeup samples apparently)
-See a movie at COEx mall and visit the aquarium (largest underground mall in Asia)
-Go to the top of namsan mountain to see the love locks and eat at the really good (recommended by a friend) buffet restaurant
-Shop at the street markets namdaemun and dongdaemun
-Eat at the luxurious food court Gourmet 494 in the basement of Galleria
-Visit the world's largest indoor theme park: Lotte World
-Eat Korean street food at Gwangjang market or outside Itaewon station at night
-Shop for souvenirs in Insadong
-Shop for international food and fake designer handbags in Itaewon
-Shop for cheap clothes around Ehwa Women's University
Foods I'm looking to eat in Seoul (I love Korean food):
-Kalbi (beef ribs)
-Bulgogi (marinated beef)
-Sam gyup sal (salty pork)
-Pajeon (green onion pancake)
-Kimbap (Korean sushi)
Tips I've read:
-Rent a cell phone at the airport
-There's a free concierge service for tourists you can call at any time with questions about anything (directions, translation, where to buy something, etc). Just dial 1330 from any phone.
Congratulations on booking a date! You have definitely planned a lot of stuff to do. I myself didn't feel up to doing that much until at least day 3 post-op as I was always so worried about messing up the results by doing something I shouldn't within those critical few days, but everyone's probably different. I stayed at the same hotel as Abby and I loved it. It was close to the subway (which is sooooo convenient to get pretty much anywhere, including Yeson), the kitchenette came very much in handy when I didn't want to go out, there is a market within walking distance (although it's really hard to notice, as you have to go down a set of stairs to actually get to it from the street), there are so many coffee shops and dining places around, etc. It's pretty expensive in that area though, and you'll find that after a while things start to repeat like they just copy and pasted a section of blocks over and over (how many Paris Cafes did I see??).
I rented a phone at the airport and I think it was definitely worth it. In total it was like around $70 or something total and that included unlimited data so I never had to worry about getting lost and not having WiFi to be able to use Google Maps or anything like that, although WiFi is extremely prevalent there, it seems like it's available everywhere you go. That's great about that concierge number. That could have come in handy a few times!
Good luck with your surgery and keep us updated with your results afterwards ;) February 26th will be here in no time!
big congratulations. You seem to have planned really well. AmyBerlin and I will be there at the same time in April quite coincidentally.
One question, why can you not use your own cell phone and need to rent one.? (sorry if this has already been discussed)
Anyway very best wishes.
Saskia
Congratulations, Megan. Good luck on your journey in Korea!
Quote from: Saskia on January 15, 2014, 11:17:11 PMOne question, why can you not use your own cell phone and need to rent one.? (sorry if this has already been discussed
At least from the US:
Korea and the US use both the older analogue CDMA and newer GSM technology. If you have a phone with an international calling plan, then there's no reason why it shouldn't work in Korea, but check with your carrier first. If you don't already have one, it's said renting a phone is cheaper since it comes with unlimited everything rather than having you pay exorbitant rates for a single Mb of data.
Quote from: Saskia on January 15, 2014, 11:17:11 PM
One question, why can you not use your own cell phone and need to rent one.? (sorry if this has already been discussed)
Hi Saskia, I'm from Canada and our cell providers charge insane amounts for international roaming data, so I'd rather rent a phone at the airport to use while I'm there than come home and find a thousand-dollar cell bill from my provider. I'll still bring my phone, but I'll turn off data and probably won't use it except in an emergency.
Congratulations, Megan! That's quite a jam-packed schedule you've got ahead of you! After my partner and I went out to the Korean restaurant, we can't get enough of the stuff. We bought a Korean cookbook and prepared a few of these dishes – one tastier than the next. Good stuff :-)
Since my cell phones (Sony Xperia P and also my older HTC model) don't support CDMA, I think there won't be an alternative to renting a phone. For European countries, I usually just buy a prepaid SIM card, but that doesn't seem to be an option here, sadly.
And thanks for the concierge number!
Amy
As I understood it, Korea has GSM, which is the system used in Germany as well, Amy.
Can you use that cellphone also to get internet on the laptop? Or will you get a smartphone as a rental and use that for all?
There is such a rush of people going there now. Its funny - google Yeson and this website comes up very much at the top of the list. :)
Dear Anja, all,
Quote from: anjaq on January 16, 2014, 07:12:51 AM
As I understood it, Korea has GSM, which is the system used in Germany as well, Amy.
The GSM I'm not worried about. It's that CDMA that I have no idea about what it is ;-)
From what I gather, everybody and their dog in Korea has wifi, so internet connections are abundant. And since I can't do any voice communication, maybe I won't need that cell phone, after all.
Quote from: anjaq on January 16, 2014, 07:12:51 AM
There is such a rush of people going there now.
Do you remember, back in the 90s, when Becky Allison, Andrea James, Lynn Conway, Nicole Hamilton and them had their FFSs with Dr. O and blogged about it? That caused a similar reaction in the community, especially Andrea James's account. I'm somehow reminded of this right now, except FFS was much more expensive even back then than VFS is now, and back then I was dirt poor and couldn't afford it anyways. Times have changed :-)
Love,
Amy
It's truly amazing to see all the people flocking to Yeson. Probably the best validation of a successful surgery I could ever ask for :)
Congrats Megan! You will be in wonderful hands.
Yes definitely, Amy. i remember that time when Dr O was the only one doing this and literally wrote the book about it. And people went there and were telling how great it is and others claimed it was not good to do such an invasive surgery and that it is only for those who never ever pass otherwise. But still I think he soon had a long waiting list ;) - So I guess i should expect that soon one should book some months in advance ;)
And if the surgery proves highly successful over the long term and the demand is there, more surgeons will adopt his methods and maybe even improve further on them. :)
Only if the others can manage to copy his method successfully.
Hi Anja,
Quote from: anjaq on January 18, 2014, 09:24:21 PM
Only if the others can manage to copy his method successfully.
let me quote the ENT who saw the Dr. Kim result of a friend of mine: "It ain't rocket science, it's just very exacting work, very exactly performed. I doubt anyone in Germany would be diligent enough to achieve this result."
So Dr. Kim's secret seems to be: Attention to detail counts, and little things matter big time.
Just my 2¢,
Amy
Quote from: anjaq on January 16, 2014, 07:12:51 AM
As I understood it, Korea has GSM, which is the system used in Germany as well, Amy.
Careful to anyone bringing phone though - Korea (along with Japan) - never had GSM as they went straight from 1G to 3G. You need phones that support 2100 frequency band that Korea uses (most quad-band phones will have it) for its WCDMA/UMTS (3G) service.
Quote from: megan2929 on January 15, 2014, 05:25:52 PM
-Rent a cell phone at the airport
Buying a sim card (Koreans call it USIM) can be a lot cheaper than renting a phone if you have a compatible phone. Phone rentals cost $5/day as opposed to $20 sim card which should last a month. iPhone 4s and after/ Galaxy S3s and after should work without a problem.
Quote from: megan2929 on January 15, 2014, 05:25:52 PM
-Shop for cheap clothes around Ehwa Women's University
Wow!! You know better than me. I also go to a shopping street near a big university for purchasing very cheap fashion items. As most college students do not have big money, those stores target budget-conscious shoppers. Sometimes, surprisingly nice items can be purchased.
Nowadays, if you tell you are from Canada, most Koreans probably will think about Canada goose.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/12/116_147859.html
I frequently go to Seoul. Certainly I will be there on March 7-8, as I have to attend an international symposium held at Seoul Plaza hotel located in Myeongdong. Also, probably I will be there in late February, although the schedule is not yet fixed. If anybody wants to meet me and have dinner together, please PM me or post it.
Seoul will be still cold in late February and early March, but warmer than Canada. Anyway, bring winter clothes.
barbie~~
Yesterday I went to the town in the front of Ehwa women's Univ.
I saw a small-scale shopping street there. They sell various fashion items at economic prices. There were many foreigners, mostly from Japan and China. I guess there were more Chinese than Korean in the street.
The average price is KRW10,000 (ca. US$ 9). In some stores, all items sell at KRW10,000.
I purchased several items there. All were KRW10,000 except the skirt in the top (ca. US$ 20) and the belt (ca. US$ 5).
The gloves are for using smartphone (you do not need to take off the gloves).
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7367%2F12665604723_e436a76c3c_o.jpg&hash=02f2383b2bcb3b2a23d3eeb35d04f2b22eca6959)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5541%2F12665604933_3759bba5b6_o.jpg&hash=7e3746cac6d9cd1383d9fb996ff7f047e94b837b)
I asked a nearby college girl to take a shot for me. In March, there will be far more college students, as the winter vacation ends.
I will be in Seoul on Feb. 28 - March 2, 2014. If anybody wants to meet me, please PM me. I can access Susan's through my smartphone. I have never met any transgender person face to face, and would like to offer lunch or dinner and chat together at a nice restaurant in Seoul, if I have any chance.
barbie~~
Hi Barbie,
Quote from: barbie on February 20, 2014, 06:40:33 PM
The gloves are for using smartphone (you do not need to take off the gloves).
Way cool! I need something like that!
Quote from: barbie on February 20, 2014, 06:40:33 PM
I have never met any transgender person face to face [...]
Now you've got me puzzled: I thought you were trans yourself!?
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: AmyBerlin on February 22, 2014, 12:58:51 AM
Hi Barbie,
Way cool! I need something like that!
Now you've got me puzzled: I thought you were trans yourself!?
Regards,
Amy
You can purchase the gloves in subway transits. Unfortunately, all signs are in Korean, and you may not have any clue whether they are for using smartphone, or not. Then just ask "Smartphone?", then the seller will say "Yes" or "No", as he/she understand the meaning of "smartphone". And try whether the gloves work for your smartphone, before purchasing it. They usually ask KRW 10,000 or less.
I am a kind of transsexual person, but do not plan any transition because of my family. In Korea, there are many transsexual and transgender people, but they usually are in stealth mode, mostly working at underground bars. They are not so much confident. I am a special case, as I express my femininity in public, and my social position is relatively high here in Korea. Because of these reasons, I have never met any other transgender person here, although I know a few through the internet, but not in the real world.
barbie~~
Quote from: barbie on February 22, 2014, 02:19:39 AMIn Korea, there are many transsexual and transgender people, but they usually are in stealth mode, mostly working at underground bars.
Why would they do that then.. I mean if they can go stealth, they should have all kinds of jobs like any woman and not have to go to be in bars...?
I'm leaving tomorrow for Seoul and my surgery is on Wednesday morning :)
Here's a pre-op voice recording so you can compare after my surgery in a couple months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=483qVLcGPd4
I'm super excited!
Quote from: anjaq on February 22, 2014, 04:12:19 AM
Why would they do that then.. I mean if they can go stealth, they should have all kinds of jobs like any woman and not have to go to be in bars...?
It is a difficult question. Korea is basically a very competitive society, and it is difficult for transgender people to get a nice job. Moreover, to undergo SRS, they need a lot of cash, and an easiest way for that is working at underground bars. Even, a detailed picture of everyday lives of transgender people is not well known, despite the huge popularity of Ha Ri Su, the first and probably the only successful transsexual in Korea.
barbie~~
Quote from: megan2929 on February 22, 2014, 10:44:08 AM
I'm leaving tomorrow for Seoul and my surgery is on Wednesday morning :)
Megan,
The weather here is getting warmer, and temperatures in Seoul will be above the freezing point. I will be in Seoul on February 24-25 to have a meeting near Seoul train station in the Monday afternoon. I have no schedule on Tuesday, but will be back to my hometown if there is nothing to do. I will be again in Seoul, probably on Feb. 28 - March 1 or 2. If you are adventurous to meet me to have lunch or dinner together, please PM me to let me know your preferred area and time of meeting together. I can arrange it for your convenience.
You know where I live.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F31.media.tumblr.com%2F7bd7735e0fe1f6ea3b6f7cb540fefe43%2Ftumblr_mrfwj0AvPc1s3dn7vo1_1280.png&hash=beba488971fda8db6fb387fa0136d945610d1801)
barbie~~
Hi Barbie :)
Just PM'd you. I'm looking forward to Korea and it would be really fun if we could meet up while I'm over there!
Hi Megan - Congrats on getting the vfs! What is your time-line (i.e. mon consult & tests/wed surgery/mon post op visit/tues return home), and how many days are you spending in Korea? I'm seriously considering the surgery, for my hopelessly male voice, this summer.
Thx!
Kim
Quote from: megan2929 on February 22, 2014, 04:10:34 PM
Hi Barbie :)
Just PM'd you. I'm looking forward to Korea and it would be really fun if we could meet up while I'm over there!
Yes. I will delay my returning flight schedule by 1-2 hours to meet you. There are one flight in every 5 minutes from Seoul to my home town at daytime.
barbie~~
I have delayed my returning flight by 2 hour at 15:25 on Feb 25. It takes about 45 minutes from the downtown Seoul to Gimpo airport. Usually I arrive at the airport 30 minutes before the departure time. I think we can have enough time for lunch! And there are various restaurants.
barbie~~
Quote from: kimdp999 on February 22, 2014, 10:06:11 PM
Hi Megan - Congrats on getting the vfs! What is your time-line (i.e. mon consult & tests/wed surgery/mon post op visit/tues return home), and how many days are you spending in Korea? I'm seriously considering the surgery, for my hopelessly male voice, this summer.
Thx!
Kim
Hi Kim, my timeline is:
Sunday: Leave Vancouver
Monday: Arrive in Seoul (a day ahead)
Tuesday: Consultation at Yeson for tests and payment
Wednesday: Surgery
Next Wednesday: Follow-up
Next Thursday: Fly home
Quote from: megan2929 on February 22, 2014, 10:44:08 AM
Here's a pre-op voice recording so you can compare after my surgery in a couple months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=483qVLcGPd4
Your voice already sounds very feminine! I think you are going to love the results. I hope someday that I can get somewhere near as feminine as your pre-op voice!
Can't wait to hear the post-op voice :)
Megan - do you have to use a lot of effort to keep that voice in the video up? It sounds rather ok to me already, bu tI totally get it if this takes effort or is straining the voice or you have to think about it all the time that you do not want to do that anymore and hence the surgery. Or do you actually aim to get a much higher pitched voice than the one in the video?
Congratulations!
Im 3 weeks out and so excited that I cant even imagine how you must feel.
Thanks for the before video. I'll do the same.
Best wishes!
Megan, I wish you the best of luck! Just remember to follow all of Dr. Kim's instructions. If you have any questions while you're there feel free to PM me and I'll try to answer anything if I can. You'll love Seoul, and you'll love your results once you're able to talk again.
I can't wait for the post-op videos :-)
Dear Megan,
I wish you lots of success with your VFS, may all your wishes come true. Luck you won't need, as with Dr. Kim, you're in expert hands. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Amy
Yesterday I met Megan and her friend in Gangnam. They seemed to be a little bit tired from jet lag, but anyway I shopped together with Megan in Gangnam. Lunch was canceled because Megan was to take a blood test in the afternoon.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7422%2F12782644635_b4840d092a_o.jpg&hash=9925dcb1708c6b29e4da6a66f35a89428142b84a) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7376%2F12782755573_d598368bf8_o.jpg&hash=ee08f08dc9e01a6689bb2750dc651efd21359ac2) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5475%2F12782644585_4302b7cbed_o.jpg&hash=e8254a336831d9ffbadce6f2e15b95067a07c210)
I am now in Jeju island, and it rains whole day, cleaning up the yellow dust.
I hope the surgery today will go well without any problem. Probably within 24 hours, we can hear from Megan, as she recovers.
barbie~~
All fingers crossed then for the surgery of Megan today :)
Fingers crossed for you! You're in great hands!
I had surgery yesterday and I think it went well. Dr. Kim seemed happy at least and said there were no complications. I had a vocal tremor so he recommended that I only get 1/3 of my vocal cords sutured rather than the 1/2 that Jenny had. I think most of the girls get 1/3 so I'm not too worried. He said that my original male voice had a fundamental frequency of 118 Hz and he would be able to raise it to around 195 Hz. My trained voice was around 155 Hz. He said that because I'm already comfortable modifying my pitch and resonance that it should be easy for me to adjust after the surgery and get a normal speaking voice in the 220 Hz range.
I will admit that I had a bit of a breakdown the night before the surgery because I was so scared and because I was really worried that I wouldn't be able to figure out how to make my voice sound natural or get it up to the 220 Hz range after the surgery because I don't really understand how the voice works as well as a lot of the girls on this site do. I have no idea what I'm doing now to make my voice sound feminine and I don't really understand the relationship between resonance and pitch. I just know that I use my head voice and make sounds from the front of my mouth instead of my chest, but Dr. Kim said it's not quite the same method after surgery. I think it's just the unknown factor that was freaking me out. He tried to explain something about raising your pitch by tightening your vocal cords, but not squeezing your larynx anymore, and using your chest voice, but I think it's something I'll just have to experience myself and figure out on my own because I can't understand what any of that would actually feel like.
Yeson is great though. Jessie is so good and the rest of the staff was also wonderful. Dr. Kim is really intelligent and a lot of what he explained to me kind of went over my head because I'm not very knowledgeable about voice or music but he seemed really confident that I would get a good result.
My timeline yesterday:
-Arrive at Yeson at 8AM and shown to my private room.
-Change into provided gown and cute slippers.
-Get hooked up to an IV by a nurse and given some medications to prep for surgery.
-Meet Dr. Kim and the anesthesiologist again and sign consent forms.
-9AM: surgery just down the hall from my room.
-11:20AM: woke up back in my room but very out of it for another half an hour.
-2PM: Feeling a lot better. Throat is on fire like a really severe case of strep throat but no longer dizzy or nauseous. They brought me some lunch of congee (rice porridge).
-6PM: meet with Dr. Kim again and he examines my throat and says it looks good. Final instructions from Jessie. Leave hospital.
It's the next day and I mostly feel like I have a normal sore throat like if I had a cold. I'm allowed to eat normally today and they've given me medication to take 3x a day for the next week. I was also allowed to start my hormones again last night so psychologically that makes me feel a lot better!
By far the hardest part is not making any sounds. I accidentally started to whisper something yesterday when my friend and I were watching TV, and I'm pretty sure I lightly cleared my throat a couple times during the night so I'm just hoping I haven't done any damage to the sutures. While it's very nice to have a friend with you, it is also a lot harder to stay silent when there's someone with you talking to you all the time. In a way it would be easier if I was alone and could just stay in my hotel room for a few days. I'm drinking a ton of water (buy bottled water at the grocery store) and I've been stifling the urge to sneeze or cough. A month of this is going to be really hard!
Dear Megan,
you've made it! Good to hear from you!!! I'm sure all will be well and you'll manage to comply with the post-surgical instructions. After all, what you have gained will last a lifetime. I'm so happy for you and can't wait to walk in your footsteps 2 months from now :-)
Take good care, be cautious and don't overtax yourself. Hang in there, and I'm sure you'll love your new voice that will bring you so much closer to our common goal: to just feel normal in our skins just like any other woman, which, after all, we are.
Hugs,
Amy
Quote from: megan2929 on February 26, 2014, 01:58:09 PM
A month of this is going to be really hard!
Indeed. There is nothing easy. For beauty, we always need some pain to endure.
barbie~~
Congrats Megan. I am looking forward to your post op reports then, because i am interested in how this surgery changes the way you use that voice in terms of head voice vs chest voice, trained pitch raise vs original male pitch. 220Hz would be way too much for me lol - I guess if you want you can do that, but I guess you have the option then? i think 195 would already be great, so I gthink if he can get there with a 1/3 suture, thats fine, why should he do more than that.
So the pitch increase then really is calculated from the trained voice then (150 + 70 = 220 Hz)?
I am sure you will be able to rest the voice. LOL, I tried to practice not-sneezing or sneezing without sound, but I am failing at that. I am sneezing once daily at least now, I wonder if I could somehow manage to avoid this really. Tell your friend not to talk to you that much ;) - if it makes you want to reply.
Have a great recovery, I am wishing you the best in healing and hope you will keep us updated.
Glad to hear it was a success! Don't worry at all about how to use your voice, there is literally no way to not figure it out ;)
At the very minimum you will be in the female range of pitch. And that takes such a huge part out of the voice feminization process that the other parts just come more naturally as you learn how to use your new voice.
You have a long but extremely exciting journey ahead of you- I do know that much!
Just remember: the easier you are on your voice, the faster it will heal and strengthen. In 8 weeks when you start talking again you will want to put it through its paces- but not overwork it (that can cause damage to anyone's voice).
And I wouldn't worry about a throat clearing, a small short whisper or gentle cough. Spare yourself the anxiety. Do follow the post op instructions and you'll be good to go :)
Jessie is wonderful isn't she?? I really do miss her. There was a quaint kind of calmness and happiness to her that was very pleasant. Please tell her I said hello if you feel like writing something extra at your 7 day check up ;)
Wishing you a speedy and perfect recovery!
Quote from: megan2929 on February 26, 2014, 01:58:09 PM
I will admit that I had a bit of a breakdown the night before the surgery because I was so scared and because I was really worried that I wouldn't be able to figure out how to make my voice sound natural or get it up to the 220 Hz range after the surgery because I don't really understand how the voice works as well as a lot of the girls on this site do. I have no idea what I'm doing now to make my voice sound feminine and I don't really understand the relationship between resonance and pitch. I just know that I use my head voice and make sounds from the front of my mouth instead of my chest, but Dr. Kim said it's not quite the same method after surgery. I think it's just the unknown factor that was freaking me out. He tried to explain something about raising your pitch by tightening your vocal cords, but not squeezing your larynx anymore, and using your chest voice, but I think it's something I'll just have to experience myself and figure out on my own because I can't understand what any of that would actually feel like.
Megan, you are a strong woman to have made it this far. You have sisters here who have been there and who can help if you need it.
Listening to the joy in the new voices of the women on this site makes my heart leap. I am proud of you all.
Hi Girl
I hope you are well and you surgery was asuccess
Would mind to give me idea how much is the surgery this days
I will love to my surgery as I hate my voice
Thank you for you help
xx
Quote from: Salome on February 28, 2014, 07:34:52 PM
Hi Girl
I hope you are well and you surgery was asuccess
Would mind to give me idea how much is the surgery this days
I will love to my surgery as I hate my voice
Thank you for you help
xx
Hi, the surgery costs $7000 USD.
Hi Megan , I ve been following your surgery thread :)
I wish you a speedy recovery :)
Yeson sounds awesome :)
Hi girl
Thank you very much for the info
i wish you a speedy recovery
Hi Megan,
Im just checking in to see how you are. Hopefully your recovery is going well!
Lisa
should be about time for the checkup - did everything look healing well`?
Hi Everyone :-)
Well I'm safe and sound back home in Vancouver and I'm already missing Seoul. I had my checkup on Wednesday and Dr. Kim said it looks great so that was a huge relief! I did have a vocal tremor so he injected botox and prescribed clonazepam for me (3 months botox effect, 4 months clonazepam) which should give my vocal cords enough time to settle down and heal without a tremor.
I did pretty good at keeping silent the whole time I was there, apart from the few times I lightly coughed or started a whisper before catching myself. One thing I found difficult was not moving any air out while trying to "mouth" words to my friend and people I was interacting with. It's probably safer to just use a notepad or type on your phone for everything, but I found myself still mouthing words to people and I always had to make sure I wasn't in fact whispering anything.
They say the botox injection will make my voice hoarse and strained for 4-5 weeks but I'm only supposed to be speaking a couple words a day during that time anyway. They also mentioned that I might have trouble swallowing for a few days after the injection (instructions were to use a straw when drinking or tilt your head forward when swallowing) but I didn't actually have any trouble. Also, for the first 2 months, I'm only supposed to speak in a falsetto, which is supposed to train my brain to use a higher pitch, so it is easier to drop back down into my chest voice at the 2 month mark, when I can start talking normally and will begin the vocal exercises.
I have to avoid salty and spicy food for 2 months, as well as alcohol, and all caffeinated drinks such as coffee, tea, soda, etc.
I tried to say one word today and when I first tried, nothing came out. It was just like a silent whisper. I tried again in falsetto and it kind of cracked and made a squeak. I guess it takes a little more time. I'm going to keep resting it for another few days before trying again.
Oh, one more thing that was really neat about Yeson was the package they give you when you leave. It has all your test results, vocal analysis, instructions, and even has the video of your vocal cords vibrating on a usb key. Jessie is so fantastic. If anyone goes after me, please say hi to her for me. :-)
My throat was pretty sore the day of the surgery, and felt more like I had a bad cold the next day. It got better the day after, and then got worse again for a few days but I think that might have more to do with the cold, dry air and pollution (yellow dust from China) in Seoul because I was going out a lot. I would recommend buying a face mask at a corner store if you're going out. Lots of people in Seoul were wearing them. Things I managed to see and do while there: The COEX aquarium (the mall is closed for renovations), shopping in Myeongdong (makeup!), Apgugeong, Namdaemun market (fake designer handbags), Itaewon, Insadong (souvenirs), and Gangnam, Mount Namsan and the N. Korea Tower and love locks, the palace, the National Folk Museum, a cat cafe in Gangnam (highlight of the trip!), and ate at lots of cool and unique restaurants including the Gourmet 494 in the basement of the Galleria shopping center in Apgugeong which is this high-end food court where I had Kalbi Tacos from a Mexican restaurant, and the best burger I've ever had (I was shocked too). I also hung out with Barbie for the afternoon before my surgery and she kindly showed me around and took me to an e-Mart to buy a hair straightener. Overall, Seoul is fantastic and I loved it there. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me.
Wearing a traditional Korean Hanbok:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/119641944@N07/12986122673/
At the palace in Seoul:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/119641944@N07/12986400254/
(I don't know how to embed photos in a post)
Congrats Megan, I'm looking forward to hearing your post-op voice when you're ready. :icon_bunch:
This is great! I wish you all the best. So it will be a while then before we will get voice recordings LOL - I doubt you want the Botox or that falsetto speaking to be on tape ;) - Its the first time I heard about that falsetto talking - what is the reason for that and how do you do that? I mean falsetto means to use the head voice only? But thats at 300-something Hz in a range that is totally unnatural for speaking, almost ridiculously high - I think I would not dare to use it or people would think I did a Mickey mouse voice surgery LOL - keep us updated how this apparently new instruction is working out for you.
Your Photos are great by the way :)
Thanks Megan for posting the link back to your thread. Just like the others you've provided great info. I'm making notes for my trip - 8 weeks away.
I asked Jessie if a travel visa was required coming from Canada. She said it wasn't. I'm travelling from London, Ontario.
Hope to be in Vancouver this August for a work related conference. I teach video production and 2D / 3D computer animation. Looking forward to both these trips. This should be a fun summer for me.
Happy everything is going well for you.
And yes, your photos are great.
Michelle
Quote from: michelle_h on March 07, 2014, 09:57:56 PM
Thanks Megan for posting the link back to your thread. Just like the others you've provided great info. I'm making notes for my trip - 8 weeks away.
I asked Jessie if a travel visa was required coming from Canada. She said it wasn't. I'm travelling from London, Ontario.
Hope to be in Vancouver this August for a work related conference. I teach video production and 2D / 3D computer animation. Looking forward to both these trips. This should be a fun summer for me.
Happy everything is going well for you.
And yes, your photos are great.
Michelle
Hi Michelle :)
You must be the person Jessie mentioned to me last week. She asked me if I had needed a travel visa and I told her you don't from Canada. Good luck with your trip! If you have any questions feel free to ping me.
Quote from: anjaq on March 07, 2014, 08:54:31 AM
This is great! I wish you all the best. So it will be a while then before we will get voice recordings LOL - I doubt you want the Botox or that falsetto speaking to be on tape ;) - Its the first time I heard about that falsetto talking - what is the reason for that and how do you do that? I mean falsetto means to use the head voice only? But thats at 300-something Hz in a range that is totally unnatural for speaking, almost ridiculously high - I think I would not dare to use it or people would think I did a Mickey mouse voice surgery LOL - keep us updated how this apparently new instruction is working out for you.
Your Photos are great by the way :)
Yeah I'm a little confused about the falsetto as well. Basically he said to try and talk like mickey mouse for the first few weeks. I did try a word again today in both falsetto and original chest voice and honestly, apart from being a bit hoarse and weak, it kind of sounded the same as before. Basically my chest voice still sounded pretty deep. I hope this is normal and I start to notice the change at the 2 month mark, but it's a little concerning at the moment.
That is a bit odd. I know that "talk like mickey mouse" trick in terms of speaking falsetto and then lowering oneself into a female rsonance type from voice trainings. It works great - gives you a bit of a higher average speaking pitch as well as a female resonance if it is done properly. Basically one gets used to the higher larynx position and this makes a different resonance but also in my experience raises the pitch by 30-40 Hz. I guess most of the girls here who went for the surgery yet have done these things before, I am very confident Jenny and Sarah did it at least, as it is noticeable in the pre-op recordings and in the descriptions on the way pre op voice training went. But I am confused as to what this has to do with the surgery. It should work basically by changing the vocal chords and not depend on voice training for the effects it is providing. Of course one still will have to do or have done the voice training for pitch with the falsetto or other tricks...
Quote from: megan2929 on March 07, 2014, 02:46:24 AM
Hi Everyone :-)
Well I'm safe and sound back home in Vancouver and I'm already missing Seoul. I had my checkup on Wednesday and Dr. Kim said it looks great so that was a huge relief! I did have a vocal tremor so he injected botox and prescribed clonazepam for me (3 months botox effect, 4 months clonazepam) which should give my vocal cords enough time to settle down and heal without a tremor.
I did pretty good at keeping silent the whole time I was there, apart from the few times I lightly coughed or started a whisper before catching myself. One thing I found difficult was not moving any air out while trying to "mouth" words to my friend and people I was interacting with. It's probably safer to just use a notepad or type on your phone for everything, but I found myself still mouthing words to people and I always had to make sure I wasn't in fact whispering anything.
They say the botox injection will make my voice hoarse and strained for 4-5 weeks but I'm only supposed to be speaking a couple words a day during that time anyway. They also mentioned that I might have trouble swallowing for a few days after the injection (instructions were to use a straw when drinking or tilt your head forward when swallowing) but I didn't actually have any trouble. Also, for the first 2 months, I'm only supposed to speak in a falsetto, which is supposed to train my brain to use a higher pitch, so it is easier to drop back down into my chest voice at the 2 month mark, when I can start talking normally and will begin the vocal exercises.
I have to avoid salty and spicy food for 2 months, as well as alcohol, and all caffeinated drinks such as coffee, tea, soda, etc.
I tried to say one word today and when I first tried, nothing came out. It was just like a silent whisper. I tried again in falsetto and it kind of cracked and made a squeak. I guess it takes a little more time. I'm going to keep resting it for another few days before trying again.
Oh, one more thing that was really neat about Yeson was the package they give you when you leave. It has all your test results, vocal analysis, instructions, and even has the video of your vocal cords vibrating on a usb key. Jessie is so fantastic. If anyone goes after me, please say hi to her for me. :-)
My throat was pretty sore the day of the surgery, and felt more like I had a bad cold the next day. It got better the day after, and then got worse again for a few days but I think that might have more to do with the cold, dry air and pollution (yellow dust from China) in Seoul because I was going out a lot. I would recommend buying a face mask at a corner store if you're going out. Lots of people in Seoul were wearing them. Things I managed to see and do while there: The COEX aquarium (the mall is closed for renovations), shopping in Myeongdong (makeup!), Apgugeong, Namdaemun market (fake designer handbags), Itaewon, Insadong (souvenirs), and Gangnam, Mount Namsan and the N. Korea Tower and love locks, the palace, the National Folk Museum, a cat cafe in Gangnam (highlight of the trip!), and ate at lots of cool and unique restaurants including the Gourmet 494 in the basement of the Galleria shopping center in Apgugeong which is this high-end food court where I had Kalbi Tacos from a Mexican restaurant, and the best burger I've ever had (I was shocked too). I also hung out with Barbie for the afternoon before my surgery and she kindly showed me around and took me to an e-Mart to buy a hair straightener. Overall, Seoul is fantastic and I loved it there. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me.
Wearing a traditional Korean Hanbok:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/119641944@N07/12986122673/
At the palace in Seoul:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/119641944@N07/12986400254/
(I don't know how to embed photos in a post)
Hi, megan,
You look soooo beautiful and happy on the pictures, thank you for sharing them with us.
I am planning to go to Yeson nest summer, so I have been following the "voice" threads with much eagerness.. Even if I only gain a little bit of range, I will declare victory... my voice is killing me :(
Please continue to share your recovery and journey with us
OO
Peky
Quote from: megan2929 on March 07, 2014, 02:46:24 AM
My throat was pretty sore the day of the surgery, and felt more like I had a bad cold the next day. It got better the day after, and then got worse again for a few days but I think that might have more to do with the cold, dry air and pollution (yellow dust from China) in Seoul because I was going out a lot. I would recommend buying a face mask at a corner store if you're going out. Lots of people in Seoul were wearing them. Things I managed to see and do while there: The COEX aquarium (the mall is closed for renovations), shopping in Myeongdong (makeup!), Apgugeong, Namdaemun market (fake designer handbags), Itaewon, Insadong (souvenirs), and Gangnam, Mount Namsan and the N. Korea Tower and love locks, the palace, the National Folk Museum, a cat cafe in Gangnam (highlight of the trip!), and ate at lots of cool and unique restaurants including the Gourmet 494 in the basement of the Galleria shopping center in Apgugeong which is this high-end food court where I had Kalbi Tacos from a Mexican restaurant, and the best burger I've ever had (I was shocked too). I also hung out with Barbie for the afternoon before my surgery and she kindly showed me around and took me to an e-Mart to buy a hair straightener. Overall, Seoul is fantastic and I loved it there. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me.
Meagan,
It is nice that you returned to your home without any problem.
A week ago, I went to Seoul again, but was too busy attending the business meeting and could not reach you to meet again. Fortunately, you seem to have had a great time. Last weekend, I was also in Seoul, finding that the air is far cleaner than 2 weeks ago.
Yes. If you visit Seoul in spring, you have better bring or purchase a facial mask specifically designed for filtering out fine dusts.
Take care, and be patient!
barbie~~
Hi Megan,
Yes I'm probably the one Jessie was asking you about. She mentioned she had asked another Canadian patient.
Your to do / must see list looks pretty interesting. Hope that aquarium is open when I go. Just looked it up on line. Looks amazing
Thanks for the offer to pick your brain if I have any questions.
Michelle
Quote from: anjaq on March 09, 2014, 02:39:33 PM
That is a bit odd. I know that "talk like mickey mouse" trick in terms of speaking falsetto and then lowering oneself into a female rsonance type from voice trainings. It works great - gives you a bit of a higher average speaking pitch as well as a female resonance if it is done properly. Basically one gets used to the higher larynx position and this makes a different resonance but also in my experience raises the pitch by 30-40 Hz. I guess most of the girls here who went for the surgery yet have done these things before, I am very confident Jenny and Sarah did it at least, as it is noticeable in the pre-op recordings and in the descriptions on the way pre op voice training went. But I am confused as to what this has to do with the surgery. It should work basically by changing the vocal chords and not depend on voice training for the effects it is providing. Of course one still will have to do or have done the voice training for pitch with the falsetto or other tricks...
Dr. Kim told me that even with female sized vocal cords I would need to train myself on how to use them if I hadn't already antiquated my female voice into conversation. At the very least, the chesty low voice that you once knew will be gone forever. You just can't phonate down there anymore.
Voice training will always be necessary to feminize a voice.. VFS or not ;) VFS removes the ability to "slip back" into your old voice (which was the main reason I chose to have this surgery). As well it seems to soften the tone.
Jenny, do you still raise your larynx and resonate from your mouth now? I asked Dr. Kim about that and he said I should just be able to just use my chest resonance but a higher pitch. I'm not sure I really buy that though. He seemed to say that the whole raising your larynx and constricting your throat was bad for your vocal cords so he told me to just use falsetto (none of the larynx stuff) at the beginning, and then move to chest voice in a few weeks when I'm allowed to start speaking short conversations.
Honestly I have no idea what I'm going to have to do mechanics-wise to sound normal in a couple weeks. Right now when I say a single word it kind of just sounds the same as my old voice to me.
Megan,
First off, its really soon so be patient (easier said than done).
What do you mean it sounds the same? Same as your feminized trained voice or something else? Are you speaking normal but getting the feminuzed sound?
Aside from being concerned about how your feeling, I know I speak for many of us who are close to our surgery dates and your feedback is crazy important.
Thanks for sharing and I really hope you get where you are hoping to be.
Lisa
Quote from: megan2929 on March 10, 2014, 07:35:11 PM
Jenny, do you still raise your larynx and resonate from your mouth now? I asked Dr. Kim about that and he said I should just be able to just use my chest resonance but a higher pitch. I'm not sure I really buy that though. He seemed to say that the whole raising your larynx and constricting your throat was bad for your vocal cords so he told me to just use falsetto (none of the larynx stuff) at the beginning, and then move to chest voice in a few weeks when I'm allowed to start speaking short conversations.
Honestly I have no idea what I'm going to have to do mechanics-wise to sound normal in a couple weeks. Right now when I say a single word it kind of just sounds the same as my old voice to me.
I do but less so than I used to have to in order to produce a female sounding voice before.
You are so soon after surgery I wouldn't worry about it. You had botox too so that is still wearing off (it makes your vocal cords super loose and groggy).
According to Yeson, the pitch will gradually increase over the course of 2 months so I'm sure you shouldn't worry about it. Just take it super easy on your voice.
Don't worry megan, you are all good! TRUST ME!
Quote from: Boca.Lisa on March 10, 2014, 08:21:32 PM
Megan,
First off, its really soon so be patient (easier said than done).
What do you mean it sounds the same? Same as your feminized trained voice or something else? Are you speaking normal but getting the feminuzed sound?
Aside from being concerned about how your feeling, I know I speak for many of us who are close to our surgery dates and your feedback is crazy important.
Thanks for sharing and I really hope you get where you are hoping to be.
Lisa
Hi Lisa. So I'm only allowed to say a couple words per day so today I tried twice: Once in falsetto, and once in my original chest voice (my old manly voice). Basically the falsetto one sounded a little bit higher I think than I was able to do before, but the chest voice kind of sounded just the same as my old original manly voice. It might have been slightly higher, but it definitely didn't sound feminine.
Having said that, Jenny's right that it's still really early, and I also had the botox injection just 5 days ago which they said can make my voice lower and hoarse sounding at the beginning. I'm hoping that's all it is. I've been going really easy on my voice so I'm pretty sure I haven't done anything to damage my vocal cords. Other than the couple words I've tried the last couple of days, I haven't made any other noises except sneezing twice.
I'll keep you guys posted on my progress though, good or bad.
Good work Megan! Yeah 5 days after botox your vocal cords are like noodles. Don't even worry about it.
In another week and a half you should have a much better idea of where your voice is headed
Megan,
Keep following the post op instructions. Im sure you will start to see improvement very soon!
I know im speaking for everyone when i say we're all pulling for you and so want to hear your angelic new voice when the time is right.
Fingers and toes are crossed for you!
Lisa
Was it the same for you Jenny? I remember the first time you put up a recording it was already really amazing sounding, but that was already after that waiting period. Did you have the same worries and experiences as Meghan there?
I wonder one thing - how the heck do you really avoid sneezing and coughing at all. I have tried to take notice a bit on that and found that I sneeze at least 2x a day usually and I cannot really stop it. I have to clear my throuat several times a day as well and sometimes when I eat something I need to clear it out of the wrong parts. This all sounds not like something I would want if I was to have a surgery there, but I dont know yet how to really avoid this. How did you all manage?
Quote from: anjaq on March 12, 2014, 10:27:29 AM
I wonder one thing - how the heck do you really avoid sneezing and coughing at all. I have tried to take notice a bit on that and found that I sneeze at least 2x a day usually and I cannot really stop it. I have to clear my throuat several times a day as well and sometimes when I eat something I need to clear it out of the wrong parts. This all sounds not like something I would want if I was to have a surgery there, but I dont know yet how to really avoid this. How did you all manage?
For coughing and clearing my throat, I just quickly grab my water bottle and drink for as long as I have to to make the feeling go away. For sneezing, I quickly pinch my nose shut with my fingers and press my tongue hard against the roof of my mouth and that can usually stop the sneeze from happening. Drinking water also helps sometimes. Unfortunately there have been a couple sneezes escape that I just couldn't stop. Oh well. c'est la vie.
I tried saying a word today with my trained voice and it sounded very similar to how it sounded pre-op (which wasn't that bad really) but it kind of cracked in the middle of the word so it's hard to get too much of an idea yet.
Quote from: anjaq on March 12, 2014, 10:27:29 AM
Was it the same for you Jenny? I remember the first time you put up a recording it was already really amazing sounding, but that was already after that waiting period. Did you have the same worries and experiences as Meghan there?
I wonder one thing - how the heck do you really avoid sneezing and coughing at all. I have tried to take notice a bit on that and found that I sneeze at least 2x a day usually and I cannot really stop it. I have to clear my throuat several times a day as well and sometimes when I eat something I need to clear it out of the wrong parts. This all sounds not like something I would want if I was to have a surgery there, but I dont know yet how to really avoid this. How did you all manage?
At 3 weeks, I could barely make a noise. The words that I did record were very very quiet. I was surprised the mic picked it up to be honest.
Megan please don't push it. You have to be very careful with how much you use your vocal cords right now because it could affect the healing. What Dr. Kim told me was to consider how quickly vocal cords vibrate... It is really very violent. The best thing you can do right now is to not talk at all. When you get to a month you can start using your voice.
Thank you for posting all your details. It definitely helps me feel more at ease. I almost feel like I have been through it already. I am 4 1/2 hours away from surgery and I am so anxious. I definitely did not sleep much tonight, even though I am still jet lagged. Dr. Kim told me I have a tremor so I will need the botox injection. I also have vocal cord A-symmetry so Dr. Kim that for the rest of my life if I sing or yell it will cause damage to my vocal folds/cords. Oh well, I was always a terrible singer so it will just be doing the world a favor not to sing. I even bought the face masks, on your recommendation. Dr. Kim said my average natural voice is 125 hertz, so hopefully it will be in the female range (just barely). Just thinking about being able to speak naturally with no effort and being in the female range is super exciting. Can't wait for the results, I definitely think that not speaking for a month will be the most difficult part. Thank you all for your posts, by having details of every aspect of the procedure and recovery the unknown scariness is gone. Dr. Kim even showed me a video of the exact procedure, it helped make my partner feel a lot better.
BTW-Jennie you are his star patient, he showed me your before and after. LOL, but who can blame him your results are amazing.
I think that every person who go want what Jenny got....the perfect voice.
Good luck XpressgIrl. See you next week.
Quote from: Jennygirl on March 13, 2014, 01:38:12 AM
At 3 weeks, I could barely make a noise. The words that I did record were very very quiet. I was surprised the mic picked it up to be honest.
Megan please don't push it. You have to be very careful with how much you use your vocal cords right now because it could affect the healing. What Dr. Kim told me was to consider how quickly vocal cords vibrate... It is really very violent. The best thing you can do right now is to not talk at all. When you get to a month you can start using your voice.
Jenny, that's really interesting actually. I have actually decided to stay quiet for at least a couple more weeks (I've only tried 3 words in total so far over a couple days) but the instructions I got from Dr. Kim said I could be saying 2-3 words/day already. I was just staying silent as my own decision to help them heal faster. I wonder if it's different because you had 50% sutured while I only had 30% and I didn't have any asymmetry. I actually talked to him quite extensively about your voice because I really love it but he was pretty clear in steering me away from 50% and only getting 30% even though my starting pitch was lower than yours was. His main point was that 50% takes longer to heal and is much more difficult to recover from, and he felt that 30% would still give me a nice sounding voice. In the end I just had to trust that he knew what he was doing and I agreed to 30%. Anyway, I'm resting the vocal cords for now and just letting them heal without trying any more words. I've kind of gotten used to not talking and it's not as hard as it was at the beginning. I gesture a lot!
Megan,
Congrats on your surgery, I hope that you will feel better in another few weeks.
Barbie,
What time would you recommend going to Seoul to best avoid air pollution/dust, as I tend to be pretty sensitive to those things?
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Does anyone think Dr Kim would compromise to a 2/5 suture instead of a 1/3 or 1/2?
Also can anyone point me on how to determine the base frequency of my voice? So far I've been doing this:
1. open pratt -> Record Voice -> Save -> Go to View & Edit
2. once the bottom with the blue notes populates I stretch across the top.
3. I choose the middle number that appears on the bottom left between 75 and 300Hz.
*Using this method (not sure if its right) with the Rainbow passage I usually get 190-220Hz when false speaking, and 150-170Hz in my normal voice.
I could upload the files a .wav or is there some other type I should save them as so they can be analyzed?
Hey everyone,
I don't mean to thread hijack, just wanted to let anyone who cares know I am out of surgery and recovering. No issues, other than my tongue being a little numb and swollen (totally temporary). As far as asking Dr. Kim how much to suture you really must let the expert do what he does best. He is very soft spoken and so sweet, so I can't imagine pushing for something he doesn't advise. But just like everyone else says it is like having a sore throat, nothing I haven't had before from a cold.
Hi Expressgirl,
Quote from: Expressgirl on March 13, 2014, 11:21:48 PM
I don't mean to thread hijack, just wanted to let anyone who cares know I am out of surgery and recovering. No issues, other than my tongue being a little numb and swollen (totally temporary).
Glad you made it safely! Have a happy and easy recovery! I can't wait to have mine next month!
Best,
Amy
Great to hear another one went well! This is becoming a frequent message nowadasy and I am happy that this is workign out. Take good care of yourself int he next days.
Meghan - sound like a good idea to rest a bit more. What was your starting pitch if he recommended only a 30% and still thinks it is going ot be ok? I am a bit worried that in my case he would try the 50% as he already wrote me back that he may not even be able to properly feminize my voice as it is so far off.
How much increase in pitch does a 30% give compared to a 50%?
Whoooeee this place is exploding!
Quote from: Expressgirl on March 13, 2014, 03:47:33 PM
Thank you for posting all your details. It definitely helps me feel more at ease. I almost feel like I have been through it already. I am 4 1/2 hours away from surgery and I am so anxious. I definitely did not sleep much tonight, even though I am still jet lagged. Dr. Kim told me I have a tremor so I will need the botox injection. I also have vocal cord A-symmetry so Dr. Kim that for the rest of my life if I sing or yell it will cause damage to my vocal folds/cords. Oh well, I was always a terrible singer so it will just be doing the world a favor not to sing. I even bought the face masks, on your recommendation. Dr. Kim said my average natural voice is 125 hertz, so hopefully it will be in the female range (just barely). Just thinking about being able to speak naturally with no effort and being in the female range is super exciting. Can't wait for the results, I definitely think that not speaking for a month will be the most difficult part. Thank you all for your posts, by having details of every aspect of the procedure and recovery the unknown scariness is gone. Dr. Kim even showed me a video of the exact procedure, it helped make my partner feel a lot better.
BTW-Jennie you are his star patient, he showed me your before and after. LOL, but who can blame him your results are amazing.
So glad to hear everything went well for you Expressgirl! I like how we learn a little bit more with every patient that shares their experiences with Dr. Kim. It's so nice to hear the different things he says.. I have a feeling that his recovery procedures and knowledge have become even greater than they were when I saw him for my VFS. I really hope to go back someday and I just might!
The numb tongue took about 2.5 weeks to completely go away for me. It is annoying but a small price to pay, and in less than a day the pain will be negligible. It sounds like you have read a lot and know exactly what to do- and that's just great!!
Thanks for sharing your experience with him :) And I know I'm not alone as I wish you a speedy and successful recovery! SO COOL that he showed my video! Apparently he wanted to use it for a conference too, but I don't know if he did... I kindly asked for some more money back because I am saving for SRS and could use all the help I can get ;)
Quote from: megan2929 on March 13, 2014, 05:02:20 PM
Jenny, that's really interesting actually. I have actually decided to stay quiet for at least a couple more weeks (I've only tried 3 words in total so far over a couple days) but the instructions I got from Dr. Kim said I could be saying 2-3 words/day already. I was just staying silent as my own decision to help them heal faster. I wonder if it's different because you had 50% sutured while I only had 30% and I didn't have any asymmetry. I actually talked to him quite extensively about your voice because I really love it but he was pretty clear in steering me away from 50% and only getting 30% even though my starting pitch was lower than yours was. His main point was that 50% takes longer to heal and is much more difficult to recover from, and he felt that 30% would still give me a nice sounding voice. In the end I just had to trust that he knew what he was doing and I agreed to 30%. Anyway, I'm resting the vocal cords for now and just letting them heal without trying any more words. I've kind of gotten used to not talking and it's not as hard as it was at the beginning. I gesture a lot!
Good girl, definitely take it way easy. And when they say 2-3 words they really mean it. It's not like you can say the same 2-3 words as many times as you want. I means you could say "Yes" twice in one day and that's it... I had Jessie confirm & clarify because I was so eager... I just wanted to SPEAK!
Yeah I think the lowest amount of suturing probably sounds like the best idea. For me, I had a small hemorrhage on the small side (I was damaged there, probably from straining in choir) at around the 2/5 point. He decided to suture above that which took any strain off of it and nullified it. Otherwise I think he would have gone with 1/3 for me, but I also had huge behemoth vocal cords even compared to a cis male (kind of how he described it). Honestly I'm pretty sure I used to speak normally in the 120-130hz range pre-op so I'm sure you'll be fine with 1/3.
Quote from: Jennifer. on March 13, 2014, 07:57:36 PM
Does anyone think Dr Kim would compromise to a 2/5 suture instead of a 1/3 or 1/2?
Also can anyone point me on how to determine the base frequency of my voice? So far I've been doing this:
1. open pratt -> Record Voice -> Save -> Go to View & Edit
2. once the bottom with the blue notes populates I stretch across the top.
3. I choose the middle number that appears on the bottom left between 75 and 300Hz.
*Using this method (not sure if its right) with the Rainbow passage I usually get 190-220Hz when false speaking, and 150-170Hz in my normal voice.
I could upload the files a .wav or is there some other type I should save them as so they can be analyzed?
I bet if you brought up a preference to a length you wanted sutured after telling him you've done your research, he might be open to considering it.
Also here is a step by step screenshot tutorial for Praat if you haven't already tried it:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html
Hope that helps but I think you already have seen that!
It sounds like you are doing it right
Quote from: anjaq on March 14, 2014, 04:23:51 AM
Great to hear another one went well! This is becoming a frequent message nowadasy and I am happy that this is workign out. Take good care of yourself int he next days.
Meghan - sound like a good idea to rest a bit more. What was your starting pitch if he recommended only a 30% and still thinks it is going ot be ok? I am a bit worried that in my case he would try the 50% as he already wrote me back that he may not even be able to properly feminize my voice as it is so far off.
How much increase in pitch does a 30% give compared to a 50%?
Indeed, it must be bustling over there. I love it! The diversity of people going through that office must be pretty crazy. It's easy to imagine, though, for some reason. I really like Seoul.
I dunno if you can really predict it completely, there are so many factors that can influence a voice. As time goes on I'm sure Dr. Kim will become even better at predicting the right thing to do. It certainly seems like he's getting a ton of experience now. I love that man! I hope you can meet him someday too Anja!
Quote from: Expressgirl on March 13, 2014, 11:21:48 PM
Hey everyone,
I don't mean to thread hijack, just wanted to let anyone who cares know I am out of surgery and recovering. No issues, other than my tongue being a little numb and swollen (totally temporary). As far as asking Dr. Kim how much to suture you really must let the expert do what he does best. He is very soft spoken and so sweet, so I can't imagine pushing for something he doesn't advise. But just like everyone else says it is like having a sore throat, nothing I haven't had before from a cold.
Congratulations! Hopefully you'll be up and able to explore the city by tomorrow. Eat some Kalbi and try on a Hanbok :)
Quote from: Expressgirl on March 13, 2014, 03:47:33 PMI also have vocal cord A-symmetry so Dr. Kim that for the rest of my life if I sing or yell it will cause damage to my vocal folds/cords. Oh well, I was always a terrible singer so it will just be doing the world a favor not to sing. I even bought the face masks, on your recommendation. Dr. Kim said my average natural voice is 125 hertz, so hopefully it will be in the female range (just barely).
Hi. This worries me a bit now. I was told i have assymmetry as well. Can you elaborate on what he was saying there? Does an assymmetry mean one is not able to sing or yell even in the long run???
Also, is 125hz really alreadly in the lowest range where it is possible to feminize the voice? What base frequency is this to you? Your original voice or one already altered with training? My original is 100hz, my effortless trained one is 130hz, the 100 is below what you described as the lower limit :(
Quote from: Jennygirl on March 14, 2014, 05:24:25 AM
I dunno if you can really predict it completely, there are so many factors that can influence a voice. As time goes on I'm sure Dr. Kim will become even better at predicting the right thing to do. It certainly seems like he's getting a ton of experience now. I love that man! I hope you can meet him someday too Anja!
Hi jenny, if your chords were "behemoth" at over 120hz, whaz do i have at 100hz then ;)
What worries me now a bit is the part about not yelling or even singing. I did fix a lot of my voice now, but i think i will not put the video to dr kim yet and rather wait more rehab hours. What totally confuses me is the whole thing about original voice, trained voice and what happens to that post op-which kinds of voices one can use, how they will change, mainly that whole resonance thing and which frequency to use as a basis for a judgement,m in my case 100hz or 130hz..
Quote from: Jennifer. on March 13, 2014, 07:57:36 PM
Barbie,
What time would you recommend going to Seoul to best avoid air pollution/dust, as I tend to be pretty sensitive to those things?
Please refer to the following figure in the right panel (monthly-averaged frequency of yellow dust in South Korea).
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndmi.go.kr%2Fcommon%2Fimages%2Fcontents%2Fknow_1601.jpg&hash=738345565b0faaa232f889c1d398a6ef07b0ad05)
1 is January and 12 is December.
barbie~~
Quote from: anjaq on March 14, 2014, 11:57:41 PM
Hi. This worries me a bit now. I was told i have assymmetry as well. Can you elaborate on what he was saying there? Does an assymmetry mean one is not able to sing or yell even in the long run???
Also, is 125hz really alreadly in the lowest range where it is possible to feminize the voice? What base frequency is this to you? Your original voice or one already altered with training? My original is 100hz, my effortless trained one is 130hz, the 100 is below what you described as the lower limit :(
Hi jenny, if your chords were "behemoth" at over 120hz, whaz do i have at 100hz then ;)
What worries me now a bit is the part about not yelling or even singing. I did fix a lot of my voice now, but i think i will not put the video to dr kim yet and rather wait more rehab hours. What totally confuses me is the whole thing about original voice, trained voice and what happens to that post op-which kinds of voices one can use, how they will change, mainly that whole resonance thing and which frequency to use as a basis for a judgement,m in my case 100hz or 130hz..
I used to bottom out at E2 (82hz) and had power singing at F2 (87hz). Dr. Kim said that the muscles were not only long but very massive. Actually the whole voice box is huge.. I used to have a NOTCH of an adam's apple to prove it, too. It really didn't come as a surprise to me.
He told me that he would try to correct asymmetry and bypass the blood hemorrhage at the same time as shortening the vocal cords, and he would temporarily treat the vocal tremor (also noted that it would aid in healing by relaxing the vocal cord muscles).
He told me I would have a satisfactory result, but maybe not the "best" because of those issues. As well he warned me that I might not get the full increase because of the excessive thyroid cartilage shaving I had needed.
My best recommendation is for you to just go there, and he will fix whatever you need. Chances are if I had sent him a bunch of information about my vocal cords he might have recommended against it. Honestly Anja, I would just go or tell them that you want to do it anyway. I had worse issues than you did!
Quote from: anjaq on March 14, 2014, 11:57:41 PM
Hi. This worries me a bit now. I was told i have assymmetry as well. Can you elaborate on what he was saying there? Does an assymmetry mean one is not able to sing or yell even in the long run???
Also, is 125hz really alreadly in the lowest range where it is possible to feminize the voice? What base frequency is this to you? Your original voice or one already altered with training? My original is 100hz, my effortless trained one is 130hz, the 100 is below what you described as the lower limit :(
I cannot say for sure what the lowest would be, but he averages an increase of about 74 hz. So if you are starting off at 100 hz you will hopefully end up at 175 and then if your effortless trained voice pushes you up another 30 hz you will be in female range. He told me my sustained voice for a sound is at 100 hz, so if I say ah for a few seconds I will have to use my trained voice or my voice will drop. Everyone is different and he has you do a bunch of tests and shows you the results on the computer. It makes is very easy to see tremors, average hz or other issues. As far as the singing or yelling, because one vocal cord is a lot thicker and stronger than the other any abuse of my vocal cords will cause the weaker cord to be damaged and the stronger one will try to compensate. He did not say I should never sing or yell, but obviously any abusive actions to your vocal cords is not smart, so I took as don't do it. I also had a big issue with the amount of air I was using to speak. I was using 5-7 times more air than the average person to speak and this was because my A-symmetry was letting a lot of air escape and my vocal cords were not coming into complete contact with each other. They only contacted each other in the middle.
As far as the pain, it is all but gone. I only feel a dull ache when i swallow, which actually makes it difficult to remember to be quiet. My partner had to insist to come back to the hotel this evening because I forgot the my surgery was only yesterday, I feel great. The worst part is the phlegm.
Quote from: Expressgirl on March 15, 2014, 04:15:00 AM
He told me my sustained voice for a sound is at 100 hz, so if I say ah for a few seconds I will have to use my trained voice or my voice will drop.
I also had a big issue with the amount of air I was using to speak. I was using 5-7 times more air than the average person to speak and this was because my A-symmetry was letting a lot of air escape and my vocal cords were not coming into complete contact with each other. They only contacted each other in the middle.
Oh so you really are very similar to me there. Same issues - I also have a 100 Hz base frequency but am using a higher pitch for regular speaking nowadays and I have also an assymetry and I have exaclty what you described there in terms of the vocal chord coming together only in the middle. You can see the images in my thread in the voice section of the forum where this thread also resides. Maybe you want to comment there and compare? He told me that due to that I will need a longer recovery time. I also use a lot more air - I can sustain a sound for 9 seconds which is not a lot.
The weird thing is that I corrected some of that with voice training now - the contact of the chords is a lot better now but I still cannot phonate longer for some reason. So if you had a 100 Hz original voice and a rregular trained voice at 130-140 Hz , which is as i understand it now - correct me if I am wrong - then your parameters ar all very similar to me and I am very very interested then in how things go along for you and I would like to stay in conteact. If you dont mind me asking - how long have you used your changed voice as of now - months, years? And how much did he suture? 1/3 or 1/2?
Thanks a lot.
Jenny - I think this is similar to me - 82-87 Hz, that is about my lower limit as well, but I awas originally speakng at 100 Hz and now at 130-140 regularly. So for you a 50% suture was what broought you up in a good range...I have no clue if my chords are massive or not. I do not have a visible adams apple though, so if that is somehow connected, maybe they are not.
Thanks for the encouragement, Jenny :) I know i worry a lot, maybe too much but that is me - I am a scientist, I always desire to know every tiny bit and try to eliminate all risks ;)
Dear Anja,
Quote from: anjaq on March 15, 2014, 01:05:15 PM
I know i worry a lot, maybe too much but that is me - I am a scientist, I always desire to know every tiny bit and try to eliminate all risks ;)
I know. We're pretty much the same way when it comes to science. But with life, you can't eliminate all risks, unfortunately.
Amy
I know. But I cannot fight the urge to at least try ;)
Hey Megan, Expressgirl,
it's been a while that we last heard from you. Is your recovery going all right? My own surgery is coming up (less than a month to go now), so I'm getting a little nervous. Good news that you two are safe and recovering well would be greatly appreciated.
Hugs,
Amy
Amy,
I'll let ExpressGirl "speak" for herself but when she left Korea on Saturday she was good. Jenn90210 and I are still here waiting for our post op exam and getting the ok to go home. Jenn is leaving tomorrow and im out of here Friday.
A couple things that will help you.
A. If you are a coffee or tea drinker, bring your own decaf items. Cannot get them here at all! I wish I knew that as all I want is a cup o joe in the am.
B. Food has been challenging. After surgery you cant have any spicy food. The sauces here are spicy but the food itself is rather bland.
C. At the airport you can rent a wireless hub for $8 per day. Definately worth while.
D. The surgery did not hurt at all....not talking is very hard! You will feel almost 100% the day of surgery. Be careful not to over do it.
So we all are too soon to know if it worked. Dr. Kim says that at 2 months tell biggest change occurs. It seems that the longer you go, resting your voice the better.
Best of luck to you!!!!!
Quote from: Boca.Lisa on March 24, 2014, 02:09:32 AM
A. If you are a coffee or tea drinker, bring your own decaf items. Cannot get them here at all! I wish I knew that as all I want is a cup o joe in the am.
B. Food has been challenging. After surgery you cant have any spicy food. The sauces here are spicy but the food itself is rather bland.
It is now spring here in Jeju island, and I saw cherry blossom this morning at my house.
Yes. I have never seen any decaffeinated coffee here, as I do not drink it.
There are some western-style restaurant here in Korea such as Veeps, McDonalds, Pizza hut, and KFC.
Yes, usually the sauces and red-colored soups are very spicy, but others taste mild. You can eat selectively, as they usually offer various side dishes without additional charge. Beans, tofu, rice, eggs and white-colored kimchi would be fine. But be careful in anything red.
barbie~~
SO very excited for all of you. I can still remember the planning and recently post-op days like the back of my hand, and I simply cannot wait to hear all of your voices :)
I second that Jenny - it is very exciting to see so many going to korea and coming back home. I expect in two or three months we will get a whole bunch of recordings then ;)
Out of curiousity - why the decaf? Is is because you should not drink caffeeine post op or is it just personal taste?
Anjaq,
The decaf thing is because caffeine dries out your vocal chords. Post op you cannot have coffee, tea or anything with caffeine. That includes Chocolate. :(
Lisa
Darn. Then I would not want decaf either. Better drink herbal tea and such then... that is so for how long? some weeks?
Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm still doing fine. I'm a little over 4 weeks post-op now, but I'm still resting my voice. Yeson says April 5th I can begin general conversation so I'm pretty much waiting until then to really start making any sounds. The Botox apparently makes my voice sound hoarse anyway for 4-5 weeks after the injection, so I'm not expecting to hear anything close to a "nice" voice until 6 weeks (2 weeks from now).
I did sneeze the other day and it it came out sounding like a "achee" instead of a an "achoo" which was nice. It definitely sounded feminine so that made my day :)
Quote from: megan2929 on March 27, 2014, 10:23:27 AM
Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm still doing fine. I'm a little over 4 weeks post-op now, but I'm still resting my voice. Yeson says April 5th I can begin general conversation so I'm pretty much waiting until then to really start making any sounds. The Botox apparently makes my voice sound hoarse anyway for 4-5 weeks after the injection, so I'm not expecting to hear anything close to a "nice" voice until 6 weeks (2 weeks from now).
I did sneeze the other day and it it came out sounding like a "achee" instead of a an "achoo" which was nice. It definitely sounded feminine so that made my day :)
Megan,
Nice to hear that your throat progresses without a problem. Yes. Be patient. I surmise that it would be a new experience of being a dumb person.
Early-summer-like weather is forecast for the entire S. Korea (daily max. >20 degree Celsius), but it is still chilly at dawn.
barbie~~
Alright ladies, the day has arrived. Well technically I'm going to keep quiet for another 3 days, but I did record about 40 seconds of my voice yesterday at the 5 week mark. So keep in mind that this is really the first time I've strung together more than a couple words, and my voice is still really weak. It sounds pretty breathy which I suspect is a combination of still healing, and the botox not having worn off yet. They said 4-5 weeks before the hoarseness goes away from the botox so that would be another week or so for me.
The beginning of the recording is just me talking in my chest voice. So basically as low as I can go, and it sounds pretty similar to my old (practiced) voice so I'm ok with that. I know the other girls who went before me have said that their voice continued to get better and higher around the 2 month mark so I'm still a few weeks away from really hearing what the final voice will sound like. But I just thought everyone would want to hear an "in progress" recording so you can compare your own healing at the same number of weeks.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mEsyNkdoTh
Megan, it sounds great!!!!!!
Ive listened to your trained voice video and then the new recording. THIS IS DEFINATELY A HIGHER PITCH.
Dr. Kim also said the 2 month mark would be where the pitch change would be most noticeable with additional increases after the vocal exercizes!
Im really excited for you.
I'm 2 weeks in today and I can't wait to hear my new voice!
Keep us updated! YAY!!!!!!!!!
Megan you sound great! i hope my results are nearly as good as yours.
I'm sure your result will be Jenn :)
Megan your voice sounds great! Great success & a huge congratulations!
The hardest days are behind you. Now comes the fun part! Using it! ;)
Quote from: megan2929 on April 02, 2014, 01:52:57 PM
Alright ladies, the day has arrived. Well technically I'm going to keep quiet for another 3 days, but I did record about 40 seconds of my voice yesterday at the 5 week mark. So keep in mind that this is really the first time I've strung together more than a couple words, and my voice is still really weak. It sounds pretty breathy which I suspect is a combination of still healing, and the botox not having worn off yet. They said 4-5 weeks before the hoarseness goes away from the botox so that would be another week or so for me.
The beginning of the recording is just me talking in my chest voice. So basically as low as I can go, and it sounds pretty similar to my old (practiced) voice so I'm ok with that. I know the other girls who went before me have said that their voice continued to get better and higher around the 2 month mark so I'm still a few weeks away from really hearing what the final voice will sound like. But I just thought everyone would want to hear an "in progress" recording so you can compare your own healing at the same number of weeks.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mEsyNkdoTh
Megan,
When meeting you in Seoul, I thought your voice was already feminine. Yes. Although your voice does not seem to be fully recovered, I can hear more feminine voice. I expect that your voice will be perfectly feminine in a month.
barbie~~
Dear Megan,
to my ears this sounds as if the surgery was a success! Give it time for the botox to wear off and for you to regain control over your vocal cords. I'm sure you'll have a magnificent result in the long run!
Take good care,
Amy
whose surgery now is less than 3 weeks away!
I think as well that it sounds rather good - you still have to heal of course, so that is why it is breaking at times and all that, but I am sure that this will recover within a few weeks. Did you put up a pre-op recording to compare it to that one as well? So basically as I understand it you are now doing effortless what before the surgery required to use a trained voice? If so, that sounds like a success to me as it will allow you to just speak and not think about maintaining the pitch from voice training that much anymore
Sorry for disappearing. As soon as I got back had to return to work (fun having everyone ask me whats wrong). Jet lag was rough to get over. But the healing everything is going fine. No discomfort or pain. Not really anything worth mentioning, since I still have to be quiet. I have said a couple of words recently, but nothing really comes out but a croak. I know my voice is still there cause it comes out if I whisper, but not at any volume. Just have to be patient. Everyone's videos are very inspiring. Just have to be quiet until then and then do my practices at 2 months.
For easier comparison:
Pre-op voice (my normal, everyday, trained voice), AND my old, original manly voice at about 1:21 (this is NOT the same video I posted earlier in this thread):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlsguu0F74M
5 weeks post-op. Note that this isn't quite my chest voice. I could go lower, but I'm used to talking in my trained voice so this is sort of similar, although I don't feel like I'm squeezing as much as I used to. Basically this feels pretty natural to me:
http://youtu.be/IEdWH1ObPZ4
I'm not entirely thrilled yet about the results but as I said in the video, I'm still being patient and hopeful that it will get better (higher, clearer, more natural sounding) in the next month.
Hi Megan,
First of all, try to be patient. I think your voice sounds higher and while I agree its not an earth shattering change yet, the others have gotten higher post 2 months.
Perhaps some of it is your trained voice was good. Do you recall what thw hz level of your trained voice was?
I'm still in the "no talking" phase but please feel free to contact me if you feel you want a sounding board or an unbiased opinion.
So sorry you're not happy yet. My fingers are crossed for you!
Lisa
Hi Megan,
I definitely notice that your voice is higher in the 5 week video post op than your old trained voice. Maybe it is hard to notice when you hear your own voice. I think you just need to give it more time. You still sound a little hoarse like when you have a cold (which causes it to sound deeper). I think you should wait until the full 2 months to start judging. Even then you have to be patient. Dr. Kim drew me a graph/timeline and the slope (pitch) start to increase the drastically at 2 months. From what he explained to me it will continue to increase after 2 months. I understand how hard it is to be patient. When I tried to say a couple of words all that comes out is a croak, so I need to take my own advice and be patient. Ill try again in a week, by then it will be 4 weeks post op. But keep us updated on your progress.
Quote from: Boca.Lisa on April 05, 2014, 08:16:36 PM
Perhaps some of it is your trained voice was good. Do you recall what thw hz level of your trained voice was?
Hi Lisa, I think my pre-op levels were 117 Hz (old voice), and 145 Hz (trained). Thanks, I know it's all about patience at this stage!
Hey Megan,
I had VFS with Dr. Kim back in August and I have to tell you it definitely 100% does get better.
You are only at 5 weeks and your voice already sounds great, much better than mine did when I was at 5 weeks. It took me around 6 months to see my final result, so please give it some time. Scar tissue does take a while to heal after all.
It's definitely okay to feel unhappy about it but please just try to remember that your voice is only going to get better from here.
As for the person that said that to you, that's terrible of them and I'm really sorry. I can't imagine how I would feel if someone said that to me.
Anyway good luck with the rest of your recovery and please let me know if you have any other questions!
Abby
Dear Megan,
I've listened to both videos and must say the change between the two videos is very evident. In the second video, despite the hoarseness and softness that's still there due to the healing process, the voice has a much lighter quality that is much more feminine than the old one. It is true, however, that the basic timbre hasn't changed a lot, which seemingly is the case with all of Dr. Kim's patients. Jenny also reported that the voice remains identifiable, with just the bottom end removed.
So don't let anybody scare you or tell you differently, the surgery was a success and you'll see the full benefit of it a few months down the road when the healing has progressed, the Botox worn off and the swelling fully gone down.
Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery,
Amy
What I notice ist that the biggest change is not so much in the pitch, which I believe may have increased slightly, but in the quality. You have much less low resonances, it seems - in the old video you can basically constantly hear a low undertone to your speaking voice and that is gone in the new video. Also if you really can use that new voice without doing much in terms of changing the voice to sound as it does, it come snaturally, then that is a great benefit too if you did have to dothat befoer (did you?). My guess would be that the points where your voice gives out in the video may be where your new lower limit is, so there you may be hitting the bottom of your voice capabilities which is desired I guess. But that means that eventually a good voice would be higher than your present average speaking pitch so you can speak some semitones above that lower limit. As far as the progress in terms of natural untrained pitch at this point goes the others can say more I guess. In part I believe it may be a bit psychology as well - daring to just speak a little higher - now that it takes less effort to do so than before. Are you allowed to talk for that long after only a month already? I thought up to the two month timepoint you are supposed to only use the voice in a limited way, but I remember it was the first 4 weeks that were basically the no-speak zone.
Anyways - its way too early to judge for your friends if it was wasted money plus they do not know how it feels for you in terms of it being a lot easier maybe for you to speak with this voice now than it was before to get your trianed voice. Did that get a lot easier?
What you might want to capture on video is how it compares now to just speak without any control or using a trained voice and using that new trained voice - to see how much that effect has changed. Basically before you had that really deep "man voice" if using it untrained, now that is gone - so that difference would be part of the success. I gues sits too eraly now but after 2 months plus you could do what I think Sarah did and try to do your "man voice" now and find that it is definitely sounding like a woman trying to do a man voice ;)
Megan,
Yes. I can definitely tell the difference of your voice between pre- and post-op. It is not a dramatic difference, but your voice has been feminized further, significantly. Your voice is not yet strong and fully recovered, but I wait for listening your fully-recovered voice. I guess your surgery was successful.
barbie~~
Megan all these girls are right. Don't worry. You still probably have another octave up top to gain over the next couple of months ;)
I really couldn't even speak in sentences until 7 or 8 weeks and even then it was very difficult. The recordings I made early on were with the mic about a foot away from my face, so I could talk quietly and not strain my voice to reach a certain volume.
Once you are able to start doing the vocal function exercises at 2 months, you will likely notice a huge difference from month 2 to 6. It takes quite a bit of time for your upper range to settle.
On top of everything, I would say without a doubt your voice passes. You sound like a cis female! It might sound like you have a cold, but that is understandable as your vocal cords are still trying to adjust to their new shape. At this point it would still probably benefit you to limit the amount that you talk every day (or at least the volume level). Keep it very very soft... no yelling or talking loudly until 2 months ;) That will help greatly in healing and realizing the resting pitch of your voice.
I think you're being too hard on yourself. I definitely notice an improvement.
Megan, I am curious, did you find that talking helped you to gain some volume and an overall better sound quality? Or did you just rest it as much as possible? I am right at the month mark now, and I sound like I have the worst case of laryngitis ever! Did you notice a big difference from the 4 week to 5 week mark? Any insight is much appreciated!
Don't worry, I felt like that pretty much all the way up to the 2 month mark. Just take it easy, the less you try to talk now the faster it will heal. At 2 months you can start re-strengthening your voice. Until then, just try to keep as quiet and low volume as you can... I know it's hard!
Megan I think that your post op voice sounds much more feminine already
and since its supposed to get even better ...I can only imagine :)
Well I just had a listen and for what it's worth I would have definitely guess CIS woman.
Hi Megan,
Thank you for doing this thread and posting your videos. I wanted to say how much it helped.
If you feel like it it would great to know how you feel about your voice now that you're nearly 11 weeks post-op.
I'm off to Korea in four weeks so starting to get nervous! ;)
Thanks again for sharing all this.
Hugs
Charlotte
3 month update:
My normal day-to-day voice:
(http://vocaroo.com/i/s09X8x3NdT15)
With more resonance:
(http://vocaroo.com/i/s1XEXQnZDFTX)
No resonance, lowest possible voice:
(http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ZEXmEDhMCc)
this sounds really great already. I dont hear any hoarseness or any other odd things in the voice, I had by listening to it th eimpression thet pitch in the three recordings was rather similar. But if this is the lowest, then you had a good success, for sure. I am happy for you! :)
Quote from: anjaq on June 09, 2014, 06:27:18 PM
this sounds really great already. I dont hear any hoarseness or any other odd things in the voice, I had by listening to it th eimpression thet pitch in the three recordings was rather similar. But if this is the lowest, then you had a good success, for sure. I am happy for you! :)
Me too Megan, kudos!
Oh but one thing - I think you are doing something I am doing as well and that I was told is not so great - trying to talk too fast :P - like saying words very short, without break etc. Plus I think you have some slight oddness in the intonation maybe, although I am not sure about english. You do have a bit of a creaky sound in the voice which I presume can be a result of botox wearin goff or still being a bit active, it is an indicator , as I understand it, of a lck of control over the vocal muscles.. Anyways - just wanted to be a bit nitpicky and not just be boring and just say that you sound great, which you do, but I guess you might want to hear something about ways to improve ;) . Nothing about the part on the surgery though, those things are unrelated , just some things I was told by others about me myself who hassimilar oddities in the voice ;) .
But to have a relaxed voice like that, i think its great. I doubt you get misgendered on the phone for it at all and if you can do it effortless now and could not do so pre op, thats all worth it then ;)
One thing that I just noticed - your voice in the video sounds better than in the audio only recording - maybe its the equipment? Or did you use the voice a lot now and it is a bit tired? Listening to it again, I feel more certain that you are at the low end of your new voice and will need to tell your brain and throat to use that new voice properly at a higher pitch. Maybe you want to do a video update again to see how it all sounds with the same recording equipment?
Someone told me that at 3-5 months, the botox will wear off, not at 5 weeks. She had some issues with the voice at that time and had to take some pills , Dr Kim gave her for that time.
Thanks for your update Megan :)
I agree with Anja here, I think maybe you are still only using the bottom sector of your range. How are your vocal function exercises going a.k.a what is your range doing lip trill sirens and such?
I still had a very limited voice in the upper range for a while, but the more I think about it the more I realize a lot of it was mental at a certain point. You have to focus on relaxing as you do the exercises, because if you strain at all you are taking a step backward in terms of learning how to access the new digs.. This isn't a typical kind of voice feminization learning but rather a re-learning of how to use what your vocal cords can now do. Really the key is relaxation, and it does take practice. That's what those vocal function things seem to be good for.
Anyway I'm curious to know what your range is currently. I notice if I stop doing my vocal function exercises my range does suffer on the very top end until I start doing them again. It almost feels like it takes an entirely different set of muscles to get up there and you really have to train yourself to use them in a relaxed state or else the voice becomes tired more easily. I'm still learning a lot too, but it is becoming easier.
OK, a recording using the same camera/mic as my other ones for comparison:
http://youtu.be/JFOwbg13vp4
Wow, sounding really good, Megan :) Can clearly hear the difference :D
Wow, Megan
Listening back your pre-op video and hearing your voice now sounds Amazing.
Megan thank you for sharing your experience.
Your voice is sublime and natural. I think your voice will become even refined in the next month.
I like the change because your voice has not lost its identity, it is clearer with less grave.
Great video Megan!
Well even if you are using the low end, your voice sounds absolutely 100% cisfemale to me. And just keep going with the exercises, maybe Dr. Kim can suggest a few to help you out with accessing the upper range in speech. I think I had the same problem- I still kind of do but it is continuing to get better.
I dunno if you are the same but I have good voice days and bad voice days, usually depending on what I did the night before. I have found that a humidifier on nights of lengthy loud talking seems to completely prevent the problem... like.. 100%. So, you might try sleeping with a humidifier especially if you live in a dry climate like I do.
Anyway thanks for the update, you actually reminded me I need to get off my butt and do an update video as well. It's been since December that I've posted anything, and almost a year since I did an interview video.
I think you can be more than just "OK" with that result for now. I personally do not hear anything but a female voice and it was kind of funny when you said that you are trying to go lower with the voice and it was basically the same ;) - So I would say it is a success for sure. But I think you need to learn how to use it better. As I said, I think the difference between you doing something and you doing nothing was minute, so whatever you are doing there, I guess you can drop it and let it flow and concentrate on other things. You obviously do not really have to keep up the pitch or control resonance as much as you did before, so maybe it makes sense to not concentrate on these things anymore but rather work on some psychological barriers. It is my own issue as well - I just tend to stick to a certain vocal range when speaking even when I can do glissandos up to A5. What my voice therapist now is doing is to try and let me go up in speech by design, to loosen that barriers. She lets me ask simple questions and exxagerrate the raise in pitch at the end. Just for fun, for now ;) - We also did a dialogue from a funny book. I was reading the farmers wife who was nagging at times and she did the farmer. It was also in bavarian. So I had to basically play a role and not be my usual self and for that reason I really was using different pitches to do that funny bavarian farmers wife. I am not sure how this will translate into real life, but it shows me at least that there is a mental barrier mostly to using these pitches.
This is about using pitch range that is already there of course. It will not solve that issue about going to deep in some cases, so I guess it is both true - voice therapy alone can change a lot, but surgery can stop those low tones to enter the speech again. I noticed that in your video - whenever you otherwise probably would have dropped in pitch a lot, your voice just gives up and nothing comes out. So that frequencies are gone now, what you probably have to do is to learn to speak in a way that will not run into these holes anymore. And to learn that will be easier if you get reminded of them everytime ;) - But maybe you should also try to play roles and theatre for yourself. To get used to that voice and different pitches.
Megan, the fact that your lowest chest voice post-op has ended up sounding like your pre-op trained voice only shows that the surgery is a success in itself. Now there is literally zero chance that you will accidentally revert to your male register. :)
Also I have a question for people. Is the general consensus here so far that people who have high pitched pre-op voices typically don't see much of an increase in pitch post-op, but rather simply experience a refined female voice while losing the low ends/male register?
I posted a voice clip here a few weeks ago to many of you stating I sounded cis. :laugh: But it takes me a while to warm up to that voice and even when I do reach my female pitch, it takes a lot of work and concentration to maintain the register. Here is a link to that clip: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QbbKdhnvuO
My hope with VFS at yeson is to have my register stay at that pitch without chances of falling back to a male-sounding register. A higher pitched voice would be nice seeing as I am asian and we typically have higher sounding voices than other races, but I can make peace with my current trained voice being my post-op chest voice. Is this possible?
One more thought. I feel that you are using the pitch that you have gotten used to in a long time by doing your trained voice. It is a pattern that is in your mind - you expect your voice to sound like your usual voice that you used all the time. I think one key could be to really let go and relax and not expect a certain voice, but just see what comes out. you basically have to un-learn to use that pitch that you have gotten used to. Just a thought, amaybe I am wrong.
Hi Megan,
I had my op yesterday and sooooo looking forward to talking and finding that I can't go any lower than you can go in this vid. woo! :D
In any case, I agree with Jenny and her comment above that I hear nothing but 100% cisfemale in your vid - even using your lowest voice with no resonance control, as you said - so give yourself a pat on the back!
I will say, as a basic place for a lower-end female voice, I think it's great...you have a really nice timber for my taste and I think it sounds veeeery sexy (haha), I'm into guys though so you're safe I assure you, just thought I'd give you that compliment ;p It's interesting reading a few other earlier comments by ex-Yeson girls who think you just haven't allowed yourself to fully 'click into' your upper registers yet. Spose that makes total sense. Remember one comment about advice from Jessie saying that you should try and push up your voice into a head voice quite early on and many were surprised at how much higher their voices came out and seemed to find a higher place they had no idea about. Assume you've tried that already? In any case, good luck for a continued improvement over the coming months...I'm confident you'll be ecstatic eventually when you are able to access these higher frequencies, however you discover them - but as a basis, I'd be so delighted with the frequency and general tone and quality of the voice you have right now...honestly! And I know you feel it sounds just like your pre-op trained voice...well it does, it's very similar, but sooo much softer and lacks that occasional deeper undertone that you had before...total improvement to my ears, I promise you! Practice, practice practice....easier said than done I know...I'll be there myself soon, arghhhh!
Gigi
Beautiful all female voice Megan, congratulations!
Quote from: Roni on June 16, 2014, 02:18:08 PM
Megan, the fact that your lowest chest voice post-op has ended up sounding like your pre-op trained voice only shows that the surgery is a success in itself. Now there is literally zero chance that you will accidentally revert to your male register. :)
Also I have a question for people. Is the general consensus here so far that people who have high pitched pre-op voices typically don't see much of an increase in pitch post-op, but rather simply experience a refined female voice while losing the low ends/male register?
I posted a voice clip here a few weeks ago to many of you stating I sounded cis. :laugh: But it takes me a while to warm up to that voice and even when I do reach my female pitch, it takes a lot of work and concentration to maintain the register. Here is a link to that clip: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QbbKdhnvuO
My hope with VFS at yeson is to have my register stay at that pitch without chances of falling back to a male-sounding register. A higher pitched voice would be nice seeing as I am asian and we typically have higher sounding voices than other races, but I can make peace with my current trained voice being my post-op chest voice. Is this possible?
Roni, I think your pre-op voice is amazing! From my experience so far, I'd say that the surgery seems to just cut out that lower register but doesn't do a whole lot for raising your upper end pitch, but maybe I'm just an exception. I can definitely hear more of a pitch increase in some of the other girl's videos so maybe it's just different for everyone. But worst case would be that your new chest voice would probably sound similar to your current trained voice. I feel like saying your money might be better spent elsewhere, but I'm just a hypocrite since I was also told my pre-op voice was fine and I still did the surgery. In the end, do what you need to do to feel happy and comfortable. Cute photo too btw!
Quote from: megan2929 on July 03, 2014, 05:44:02 PM
doesn't do a whole lot for raising your upper end pitch
But worst case would be that your new chest voice would probably sound similar to your current trained voice.
Yes to both , but I would say that this is not really a "worst case", is it? It actualyl would be pretty cool and I think it is basically what many of the girls here wanted to get - to have a chest voice (natural voice, without the need for control or attention or guarding) that is like the trained voice. The way I see it and the way I actually have promoted the surgery already to some people was to say that it is a voice-assisting surgery. It seems to just make it a lot easier to use a voice that is good but that does not feel like it is a trained voice anymore but still sounds like it. Thats in my opinion a really great outcome. If you never had a good trained voice before, I guess the change would be more dramatic.
I think the upper range extension is something that is small, depends highly on voice training - probably voice training alone can do more pitch increase at the upper end for an untrained voice than the surgery - I noticed with voice training that my upper limit went up from 680Hz to 900 Hz and my voice trainer said that I was even able to get to the "high C" one of the times. But what would I want to use that register for except for singing operas :P - I think it plays little role in daily life, but if those high pitches are easier to use afte this surgery, that would already be great. Do you feel it is like that?
Hi again Megan,
As other girls have said though, it does seem you're just stuck down at the lower end of your range. Of course, it's still what I consider a resounding success that you can't sound anything other than female now. But I can understand your wish to see a more dramatic improvement in terms of being able to use a higher pitch with no effort in every day conversation.
So...you've probably seen the posts by others yourself underlining the importance of this point but just in case...are you actually consciously trying to use your 'head voice' when speaking? By all accounts, you should be. And in time you'll train yourself to use the higher ranges with little or no effort. Since I started saying a few words, the speaking in a light head voice is a conscious thing I've been making myself do most times I say a few words. Of course, the sensation is best described as simply feeling like it gets to higher pitches...(around the 200-220hz range in my case at the moment)...with practically zero effort...and no strain and tightening feeling like we felt pre-op. So basically, what I'm saying is, if I didn't consciously make en effort to use my head voice, it's very likely my test recordings would come out lower, because until we learn how to use our new equipment, we'll be tempted to drop down to a more familiar pitch. The small amount of testing I've done with gentle words at different pitches on different days proves that my voice naturally feels most comfortable above around the 180hz or above range now but I can still say words at a lower 150 or 160hz very comfortably...in fact, I havent tried talking down there but when I last did a gentle test to slowly sweep down on a single syllable super gently (as I explained in my thread) I was still able to get right down to around 100-110hz but still..that's not where it wants to be and I can feel that...I feel the same thing when I've uttered a few words without consciously using a head voice..feels comfortableish at 150 - 160hz..but not as comfortable as 180hz and above. So yes, that comfortable feeling....I'm sure you will have experimented with it? The feeling that it just 'wants' to be higher...even tho it's not particularly uncomfortable to speak a little lower...such a surreal feeling and I've been loving it....and I've allowed it to get to the super comfortable 200hz ish levels by just relaxing my throat completely and letting it go up into a head voice, as I said.
Just my thoughts anyway...and checking to see you're doing this - or whether you have, and it just feels uncomfortable somehow when you speak at a higher range at the moment?
Good luck with continued recovery anyway and don't sweat it...you're obviously aware we're in this for the long-haul and I've no doubt your voice, like all of ours, will continue (fingers crossed!) to just get better and better as the months go by.
Gigi
hi gigi
My voice therapist tells me to sometimes let it slip into ahead voice but by no means I should use that as a regular voice. I may get this wong but I think always speaking in the head voice is not really what one wants to do, right? Is this just a post-op training thing?
What puzzles me a bit is that you say you still have to consciously raise your voice to get to the 200 Hz voice. Is it at least easier to get there? One of the benefits of VFs supposedly is to take away some of the pressure to consciously do anything with the voice.
Another thing that I find remarkable is that description of the comfortable zone. I oddly found that without a voice surgery as of now, I have a somewhat comfortable zone now that is higher than what I usually speak at. So if I talk too low pitched, it actually hurts my throat in one way, if I go up, that sort of strain goes away but I get some other strain which is less bad and I can minimize it by using a lot of airflow. In some ways it seems to be better for my throat to speak at a 180-200 Hz range than below, but the voice still wants to drop below if I relax somehow. It is weird - as if my voice wants to be in one range but also in another and both do not work totally fine. Mabye it is because I have changed my voice so musch and try to get a female resonance which does not really do well with low pitch, but the higher pitch at which it works is also costing some effort for some other muscles, presumably the ones raising the pitch. I find my voice so confusing - I am sure I sound differently every hour :P
Still, I wonder how much of getting to a feminine voice post op is about training and doing conscious efforts and getting used to do something by just doing it over and over again?
Hi Anjaq,
From my understanding from some of the other Yeson graduates is that as the months go by, the chest voice does 'open up' and the break between chest and head voice does blur somewhat so I don't think Yeson girls long-term have to 'concentrate' on speaking in a head voice to speak in higher frequencies...once we get used to our new shortened folds and they have time to fully retension and our brains have time to fully adapt - bear in mind I'm not the best to answer this with any certainly from my own experience because I'm still so early in my recovery. But I have read many times (and equally importantly was told directly by Dr. Kim himself on my pre-op consultation) that we're all told that we can't expect the surgery alone to do everything for us...of course there's resonance and other areas to perfect but talking purely pitch-wise, we still have to 'train' our brains to use the higher pitches available to us and that if we don't, we'd likely continue to use our more familiar lower ranges - which of course won't be as low as our pre-op lower ranges but still would be considerably lower than our new 'fundamental frequency'.
Personally speaking, the small amount I've been allowed to talk during this first month (my general conversation date is 20th July), I tried my best to describe it above..and that is that...when I say my few daily words and don't put any effort into raising the pitch a little, it can come out as low as 160 or 170 or 180hz (all depending on the day..and of course this is still way above my preop super relaxed pitch of 130hz approx) but I can 'feel' this is lower than the 'sweet spot' if that makes sense..the point where my vocal folds feel totally relaxed. And I can only get that fully 'relaxed' sweet spot feeling when I say my words in a lighter head voice. So even though I'm consciously maintaining a lighter head or mixed voice, it feels nothing like it did pre-op, there's no squeezing or tightening or tension to get up there. It comes out effortlessly. This most comfortable sweet spot of points for me when I say words seems to always be around the 200 hz point when measures with Praat - which is pretty much where my fundamental frequency should end up according to Dr. Kim so I suppose that makes sense about that feeling of it being my new sweet spot. Again, I'm still early in recovery so it's very hard for me to fully describe it but I'd love to hear from anyone else about the kinds of feelings I've been describing - to know this is how others describe it too? Of course when my general conversation day arrives it'll be so much easier to start to experiment fully and probably describe things a lot better when i've had a chance to really get a feel for it all.
P.s. forgot to reply to your other point - hmm that's interesting what you say about you're voice feeling most comfortable in some ways in the 180-200 hz range - despite the fact that if you fully 'relax' it will want to go lower. Perhaps you're right and that it's to do with the years of speaking in your female voice and the muscles that come in to action when you get to lower ranges (if you fully 'relax') are out of practice. That might make sense? Interesting in any case!!
Quote from: anjaq on July 09, 2014, 03:00:49 PM
hi gigi
My voice therapist tells me to sometimes let it slip into ahead voice but by no means I should use that as a regular voice. I may get this wong but I think always speaking in the head voice is not really what one wants to do, right? Is this just a post-op training thing?
What puzzles me a bit is that you say you still have to consciously raise your voice to get to the 200 Hz voice. Is it at least easier to get there? One of the benefits of VFs supposedly is to take away some of the pressure to consciously do anything with the voice.
Another thing that I find remarkable is that description of the comfortable zone. I oddly found that without a voice surgery as of now, I have a somewhat comfortable zone now that is higher than what I usually speak at. So if I talk too low pitched, it actually hurts my throat in one way, if I go up, that sort of strain goes away but I get some other strain which is less bad and I can minimize it by using a lot of airflow. In some ways it seems to be better for my throat to speak at a 180-200 Hz range than below, but the voice still wants to drop below if I relax somehow. It is weird - as if my voice wants to be in one range but also in another and both do not work totally fine. Mabye it is because I have changed my voice so musch and try to get a female resonance which does not really do well with low pitch, but the higher pitch at which it works is also costing some effort for some other muscles, presumably the ones raising the pitch. I find my voice so confusing - I am sure I sound differently every hour :P
Still, I wonder how much of getting to a feminine voice post op is about training and doing conscious efforts and getting used to do something by just doing it over and over again?
Well yes, I think it somehow makes sense. Probably yes, my voice is a bit used to a higher pitch, but I almost never talk at 180-200 Hz even though this seems to be for some reason a point where my voice seems to work best in some aspects - in my opinion it sounds clearer, better resonance, more controllable pitchwise and on the ENT videos it had less assymetry as well. I have no idea why that is - maybe some mixup with brain, vocal chords, hormones and more ;) - But to hear that it is now way less effort or strain to use the voice in that spot gives me some positive points for that surgery, as this would for me translate into being able to use that "sweet spot" voice with less effort and then actually use it maybe instead of lowering it because it strains - exchanging one strain for another strain. I get the feeling my voice is a bit weird after all these years - 16 it is by now - and I guess it will be a point on my question list to ask Dr Kim how having such a history would affect what has to be done post op.
About the pitch that is available now and that it has to be learned to use it - I am not sure , but I think in theory all the pitches are available to me now - except the ones around the break are harder to use. But I guess when singing I can reach and use all of them. But when speaking I seem to strain more when using higher pitches. I am working in therapy on translating the singing to the speech and use higher pitches without much straining. The coach claims that if I can get that, all I need to do is to train my brain to use these pitches and not the low ones and then I am good without surgery. I am suspicious about this being the same though. ;)
Well the purpose of this surgery is to raise your pre-op voice about 74 Hz so that you can reach your pre-op trained voice in a natural way... so I think your result is pretty successful for 3.5 month post-op! I mean, everyone starts with a different pre-op pitch - as Sarah she starts with like 170 so you definitely can't expect a post-op frequency like hers... and Jenny got a different procedure as we got - so it's different again.
I'm close to my 2-months-mark and I'm very panic now cuz mine really didn't elevate a lot... and the lowest notes, they're really hard to get to now but I still can reach some of them. At least the coughing sound at this point disappoints me a lot cuz it's really not that feminine. I don't know, Dr. Kim predicts that in my case I can't get a dramatic change until after 2 months probably because of tremor or physical conditions, but he predicts my post-op to be around 240-250 Hz. I mean I don't really know what my "trained-voice" will be as I never had feminization therapy, so what I can tell is that the pitch is not that different from my "pre-op chest voice" besides it sounds breathier... I guess I should be more disappointed than you Megan, at least yours is only like not that different from your pre-op "trained" voice :'(