i told my ex wife of 30+ years who i was last night. i gave her a folder with a letter explaining my transsexuality. i included articles on GID and some of my poems and stories. i asked her to read it in another room. about 45 min later she emerged crying with a smile on her face and hugged me and said it was terrible that i had to bear such a burden. she immediately started saying things like "you're a woman" in her sentences and she asked every single question that you could imagine, some i had never even thought of myself. we talked and cried till about 5:30AM. she is very devout in her faith but accepted it completely with no reservations. she understands now why i acted the way i did, and why my depression was so severe while we were married. it was a good night. :)
beth
Sounds like a great relieving experience. Finally some understanding and knowing. And you must have felt great knowing she knew, and expecially sounds like a great response. I have never been married but when I told my Girlfriend and mother the first times, I was in such great relief at their response. Maybe just telling women is easier then telling men, I dont know.
What a nice story, Beth. You two still must be pretty close. I hope the best for the both of you. You know most churches are not against us. It is only a few very vocal churches that are giving the rest a bad name. God Bless.
Sheila
Beth, thank God! how wonderful and healing to find acceptance in the very relationship that probably hurt the most (i'm projecting here). she must really love you - the you that isn't a function of physical and social definitions - and that's a payoff for all the years of suffering to be there even when you couldn't be there.
so good when blessings come to those who need and deserve them!
Thats so nice for you Beth. I'm not sure if your break-up was amicable, or not, or if you remained friends afterwards, but it's obvious that you must be now. You must be feeling wonderfully happy.
I have always said that one of the keys to success in anything is communication. In fact I believe that Winston Churchill said "communication is the queen of battle". It's very hard for those around us to understand what we are going though, and for us to understand what they are going through, unless we communicate. Talking and discussing things rationally, with give and take on both sides, tears and smiles, laughter and frustration, anger and sympathy. Easier said than done I know. My wife and I have been together for 33 years, it hasn't been easy, ask her :) but it has worked for us.
I'm so happy for you Beth.
Steph
P.S. Oppps my wife just flicked my ear - it's 32 years :D
YAY! *HUG* :icon_weee: :eusa_dance:
thank you so very much wickham_kendra, Shelia, yulduh, Kim and Steph. it is wonderful to have such lovely people here, that really care about others. :-*
i stopped by to see her today and she told me that even though we were crying last night and talking bout many problems that we have had, she said "4 or 5 times last night while we were talking you smiled, smiled in a way i have never seen you smile before." she says lots of things that happened over the years make perfect sense to her now.
Sounds like that when you are honest and truthful it shows in you face and eyes. Not having to put on a fake suppressed emotional face and facid. To the people I have talked to (which is still a half a dozen) I have felt new emotions I have never felt before. So I started to figure out what these emotions were.
So , what kind of things made sense to her, just curious. Some ex g friends (never been married) that didnt know I always wonder what they saw and if they saw small hints.
these were things that didn't stand out till she knew who i was. i always bought her clothes for christmas/birthday presents, skirts, tops, dresses, suits and pants. at family get togethers i would always hang with the women when the family split into groups.i woul;d sit at the table and talk with the women while the men were watching football or whatever.Our sex was almost exclusively oral. i balled at weddings including my own. i liked romantic movies and cried during them, one particular film that was one of my favorites was a lesbian love story and she could never understand why i liked it so much. many more little things like this, all these went completely unnoticed as far as being gender related. her friends had said in my presense "i wish my husband would buy me clothes like that" but there was still no thought of a gender difference. only after i told her, and her having time to think, did these kinds of things suddenly jump out as "oh, i understand now." she said that she knew i was deeply troubled inside but GID was a total suprise, she never would have guessed that.
i am greatful for people like Oprah Winifrey and Discovery health who have had educational shows about transsexuality. my wife mentioned these as the first thing she thought of as she read about me. i know those shows make a difference in peoples understanding of us.
beth
Sorry to intrude with a personal question - because of my current mess i am very struck by Steph's relationship with her wife, and would like to know anything you care to share about how you managed to sustain it, Steph. Don't mean to intrude - i'm just grasping at anything and everything that might help...
Quote from: yuldah hadasha on July 13, 2005, 10:38:48 AM
Sorry to intrude with a personal question - because of my current mess i am very struck by Steph's relationship with her wife, and would like to know anything you care to share about how you managed to sustain it, Steph. Don't mean to intrude - i'm just grasping at anything and everything that might help...
Hello yuldah hadasha
You don't have to be sorry, this is what the forums are for :)
I feel very lucky to be married to my best friend, and soul mate. It hasn't always been easy, it has definitly had it's ups and downs, but the thing that has held us together is that we have been honest and up front with each other. The other thing is that we've always talked, talked, talked. Thats really the secret to it. No matter how bad the situation, you have to talk about it and not hide it. Some times it is so hard to be honest or to talk about thngs, but no matter how much it hurts you
have to talk about it.
In the begining we were both confused over what we wanted and where we were going, but eventually we got things sorted out. We even talked about divorce and separation, yes very difficult but that had to be discussed don't forget that the transition affects both of us not just me (how will her her fellow works view her when they find out about me). Even yesterday, we were talking about my transition and if we should tell her mother. She is 85, very frail so it's a hard one.
But it's not all bad. There have been great times as well, and I thnk that this has made us both stronger, and our relationship stronger. There is laughter and tears, but if your relationship is worth staying in, it's worth fighting for.
Hope this is of some help to you, please feel free to PM me if you need anything else or just post it in one of the forums.
Take Care
Steph
Quotebut the thing that has held us together is that we have been honest and up front with each other. The other thing is that we've always talked, talked, talked.
The flip side to that...
I told my wife how I felt upfront before we were ever married. I told her very explicitly because I felt she had a right to know. She was the first person I ever tried to talk to about it. I also told her that I was very unhappy with myself because of it and that I am really prone to depression because of this. I tried to talk to her about it and explain things to her and she would give me a very sullen glare.
Fast Forward a Year and a Half.
Therapy
Talking with my wife about how I feel.
Trying to be open and honest about myself with her.
Asking her how she felt, and trying to put myself in her shoes... and I can totally understand her points of view, this is hard for her to understand.
but... the results with my wife have been?
She is firmly convinced that I am possessed by a Demon.
I think some people are just more accepting than others. I agree that honesty and openness is always the best option, as is discussing how you feel. I guess I am just warning you that your mileage may vary :)
Jessica
Quote from: Jessica on July 13, 2005, 01:48:04 PM
I think some people are just more accepting than others. I agree that honesty and openness is always the best option, as is discussing how you feel. I guess I am just warning you that your mileage may vary :)
Jessica
This is very true Jessica, but regardless of if people are accepting or not, these things have to be discussed and sorted out even if there is a chance that couples will split. Just remember don't point fingers, don't blame, don't threaten, and don't pound chests. You are who you are and you can't hide it.
But on the bright side, it can lead to some very lively discussions. :)
Steph
I agree with Steph on communication. That is number one, you have to talk and you can't expect her to just jump on the bandwagon with you. If you want something to last you will have to take it slowly. If you have the attitude that I'm TS and my therapist says that I should be on hormones and start your one year stint tomorrow then I guess you will be in divorce court. Nothing is guaranteed, but you have more of a chance if you take it real slow. She has to catch up with you, afterall you have known all your life, she just found out. My wife really got it one day when we were watching one of the discovery channels. They said that it has been proven that it is not a choice and that there is something biological about all of this. We had gone to counseling and everyother thing known to man or woman and that dumb little discovery show did it.
My wife and an will be married for 36 years this Sept. and we have two grown children and all my and her family knows, some are against and most are for. I'm Post op for over a year now and started transitioning in 98. Been crsossdressing longer and wife knew. Don't lie and talk as much as you can. Don't try to push.
Sheila
QuoteMy wife really got it one day when we were watching one of the discovery channels. They said that it has been proven that it is not a choice and that there is something biological about all of this. We had gone to counseling and everyother thing known to man or woman and that dumb little discovery show did it
i think it is essential to fully explain exactly what transsexualism is in a logical and simple way. first impressions many times stick even if they are not totally correct. talking about transsexualism is emotionally charged for us, we may not explain ourselves correctly. i spent weeks gathering information on GID and i took an explanation here and a statistic there with a paragraph from some where else and compiled a simple explanation that covered the possible biological causes etc. my wife understood completely after reading about it. i truly believe if people know the correct facts surounding GID they will understand. ignorance not only causes hate, it can cause rejection by those who love us.
i think writting things down or giving an article, documentry or study for them to read will get them to take us seriously instead of believing we have a choice.
beth
This all helps so much - thank you, everyone. Beth, i don't know if you still have that fact sheet, or if you or anyone knows of a good article - my wife is refusing to read or find out anything about this, feels it's pointless. i've been urging her but haven't given her anything. she's known since we've gotten together, but has never wanted to REALLY know - she just wants to know whether i can be happy with her.
trick question: i can be - have been - am - happy with her, i just can't FEEL the happiness because i am in the wrong body. that makes no sense, but maybe you know what i mean? my feelings are cut off, wrapped in this thick layer of misery and self-rejection - like i am trying to pull away from myself all the time. unless i think about transition, in which case i start feeling like i'm on drugs, almost too fizzy and giddy to be there.
which is scary too. i'm better at misery and numbness - i'm used to it, i can function, i can be there for other people - i really want to be there for other people and this need to focus on me, me, me makes me sick. but sometimes people do get sick - not feeling i had a body has made me pretty indifferent to most discomfort and pain, so the need to deal with this is very disorienting and i don't know how to factor it into relationships. i'm in the process of messing up my friendship with that wonderful woman Annie i've mentioned, because every indication that she is either accepting or pulling away from accepting me as female makes me start crying etc.
i guess i'm so vulnerable right now that talking - taking responsibility for the necessary, slow, compassionate, empathetic communication necessary to give my wife and my marriage a chance - is hard and scary for me. i've been trying to be kind by NOT talking - trying to show her that my condition is NOT our whole relationship, that other things count too.
this is a form of cowardice i have embraced my whole life.
if she really understands how it is for me, i'm afraid she may kill herself from despair - she has sometimes threatened to do that. my obligations here to her, to the children, to the relationship, to my unfortunately present self, feel conflicting to me. i'm her closest friend; she needs me to help her through this - to cushion it if possible - and i need her to survive it, to live, and the children need us both.
and if the truth be told i probably need to start transitioning as soon as feasible, though i never have told this truth to anyone so i'm not sure it's a truth.
i can't believe i'm dumping all this on you - taking advantage of your compassionate attention, your generosity, your strength. it will probably seem funny to you that this puddle of dysfunction and angst has always had a reputation for being the calm, together one others can talk to.
what has happened to that self, now that my family and friends need it?
>>"...but has never wanted to REALLY know - she just wants to know whether i can be happy with her"<<
So there is a start for you, something to work on. You mentioned that you are happy with her but that it gets pushed aside because you are in the wrong body. It seems that you both want to stay together, so another starting point would be to work out a comprimise for the time being and go from there. That will give you time to work on the other part of the question "can you be happy with her" - in what way? Take it step by step, if you swamp her with information, she may close the door feeling that you are pushing too hard, give her little bits that are easily digested, sometimes it makes it easier to talk about smaller bits. Hang in there, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, it's just that your tunnel is a little long and it's hard to see right now.
Steph
First off, Beth,
You are the original poster here so let me say how happy I am for you. It seems like your relationship with her will be better now than when you were married. Since you shared a life with love and then drifted apart, due to repressed feelings, it is good that your sails are filled once again by a shared wind. Kudos for sharing your true self with her. The new relationship may well surpass the old and you will be best of friends for life. I hope for all the best for you.
Second, yulda hadasha,
Being one of the other people here with a supportive spouse I thought I should chime in on your situation. I cannot agree more with Steph about the importance of communication. My wife and I have been together for 25+ years and this has been the hallmark of our success as a couple. Like Steph we have had our share of disagreements, fights and threats of seperation or worse. I don't think there is a couple alive, dead, together or divorced who has not done all these things. The difference between together and happy, or divorced and miserable is communication.
The root source of some of our unhappiness over the years though has been that one secret I carried around like an albatrose for so many years. The truth of my gender. It was the source of my temper, my impatience, my self hatred, and my sullen depressions which I wrapped my self in like some security blanket. It was with me for so long that I was used to it, I took comfort in it. I was also a master of disguise. Outwardley I appeared cheerful, amicable, even conceited. It was an iron mask of my own creation used to conceal my true identity. Your "trick" question makes perfect sense, just maybe not to those who aren't going through what we go through. Thats what this forum is for, so we can all share and discover that we're not the proverbial "lone palm tree on the island".
As far as not talking I don't think it's so much a matter of being kind as much as being overly cautious. I can see your point that you don't want her to think it is the whole relationship but that is like trying to ignore the elephant in the room. In my opinion if it has been affecting your relationship then it is a major part of the relationship.(Anybody, just feel free to jump in and disagree with me here if you think I'm wrong on this.) This is a major issue for you and as a couple you need to share and understand together. This may occupy a lot of the space in your relationship for some time. Eventually once everything has been said and all the issues discussed hashed over and rehashed it will become less of a topic of discussion.
Slow and steady is good advice but don't slow down too much or you may fall back into that comfort zone.
Just my two cents.
Cassie
Dear All,
thank you - i feel i've hijacked Beth's joyful news and warped it into my own maelstrom. but you bless you aren't letting me sink - which means that i get the support of throwing out the worst and having you say, "been there, survived that, thriving now." means a lot to me.
Cassie and Steph: i am taking your advice to heart, pushing ahead with talking - mostly reassuring and listening at this point. it's hard, we have almost no time and less energy, but you are right: this is the thing we have to talk about, this is the kind of thing we spent twenty-three years learning to work through. we may not make it, but we - i and alas my wife - have to try. since i'm committed to that, one of the great things you have taught me is that for me transition is not something to think about apart from my relationship - it's not either/or, and if i let it become that it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy that my female identity is a rejection of my wife. that's hard - it means keeping a tight rein on feelings that are threatening to rip me into little pieces and in some ways already have - but it helps to have you make it so clear.
i'm lucky i found you...
Yuldah
Quote from: yuldah hadasha on July 14, 2005, 04:51:04 AM...i can't believe i'm dumping all this on you - taking advantage of your compassionate attention, your generosity, your strength. ...
Honestly that is one of the reasons this site exists, to be a beacon in the dark stormy sea of life.
To quote the closing lines of Chris De Burgh's song "Ship To Shore" (
"The Getaway" CD, Track 6):
Quote from: Chris De Burgh's song "Ship To Shore""I can not believe my eyes but I think I see a light."
Quote from: yuldah hadasha on July 14, 2005, 07:25:13 PM
... but you bless you aren't letting me sink - which means that i get the support of throwing out the worst and having you say, "been there, survived that, thriving now." means a lot to me. ...
(=
I wish I had context but what was for me is too dissimilar I think. Regardless, I do know without a doubt that life, for me, is
SO MUCH better than what was... an I have only just begun the journey.
I hope you find similar solace Yuldah.
thank you kimberly - my wife and i talked last night and i'm kind of devastated this morning. i like the ship metaphor - it's important to see the shore in a storm even when you can't reach it.
and i'm not drowned yet - just very, very wet.
Good luck Yulda Hadasha,
One thing that I've learned about this lovely place in the short time I've been coming here is that there is always people willing to lend support. As you move through this process with your wife this can be, a it is for me, a haven to share your feelings and be treated as you see your self.
Shelley
I'm happy for you Beth! I'm still married lo these 36 years now and I can attribute it to the fact that even though she started out very conservative and closed minded that just as Stephanie has said communication is everything coupled with a lot of patience and a willingness on her part to do some investigation on her own.
Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on July 12, 2005, 07:53:53 PM
I have always said that one of the keys to success in anything is communication. In fact I believe that Winston Churchill said "communication is the queen of battle". It's very hard for those around us to understand what we are going though, and for us to understand what they are going through, unless we communicate. Talking and discussing things rationally, with give and take on both sides, tears and smiles, laughter and frustration, anger and sympathy. Easier said than done I know.
Steph
update:
after the first two days when she was happy and almost glad i'm TS, she started thinking that our whole marriage was a lie and that the whole time i didnt want her. i guess i contributed to that conclusion by saying "(my real name) never existed" i was just trying to show how deep the feeling of Dysphoria was for me. i did love her with all my heart for many many years. my being TS contributed to our problems because i was constantly depressed, but we had many problems unrelated to it also.
i explained to her that i did love her and everything we shared was real, and she is fine with everything now. we communicate some now that we have been apart for a while. ??? i have someone else in my life now who knew who i was when we met.
thanks all for your comments, and yuldah i'm glad we got to help you in this thread, i just know you will be strong and things will work out for you and your wife soon.
beth
As several others have stated in this thread, communication is the key to any meaningful relationship.
Stephanie and Maura, you are both very lucky that you have wives that are willing to talk and to listen to you, no matter what.
I have never been married myself, but I have been in a relationship with a woman. Everything started out great, but as time went on, I noticed that I was being pushed away by her belief that no one could ever love her.
I struggled with that for several months; in the end, though, I was forced to see that she could not understand the concept of unselfish love.
She went so far as to try to hit me and threw things at me several times. Eventually, I realized that staying with her would only end up with my being hurt even more than I had been up to that point in time.
To this day, I still love her. I miss her a lot, but I know that I am safer away from her than I would be if I were still with her.
Yuldah, take time to discuss what you are feeling with your wife; give it some time and hopefully she will begin to understand you a little better, maybe even be more willing to stand by your side through your time of transition.
Tiffani