I identify with the alpha male lifestyle. All of my hobbies and interests are those of a man. For instance, my favorite hobby is watching and participating in mma fighting. I grew up with all male interests. I was in the boy scouts and became an eagle scout. All of my heroes are men. I don't have a feminine bone in my body. I'm not gay either.
I still have these transgender feelings though, inexplicably. It's like my internal desires are at a clash with one another.
I don't get sexually attracted towards women like the other guys do. I usually imagine myself as the woman. I can't relate to the guys in the locker room who want "to smash women." But I don't like men either.
I try to be a normal male and go about my life, but it's impossible. These feelings eat away at me. I feel like its costing me my health and well being.
I've been to around 7 therapists in the past 3 years, including a psychiatrist, and a gender therapist. Not of any help. I've also been a member of this and other forums for almost a year now.
Any ideas?
Describe your "transgender feelings."
Have you ever tried experimenting? Role-play as the other gender or masking your apparent gender? Cross dressing?
Local support groups may help - building friendships or gathering the opinions of potentially like-minded people.
You could just be a tom-boy lesbian. Just because you like the typical male things, does not mean you are a man. It just means you like those things, and there is nothing wrong with it.
As far as your transgender feelings, they can be very tricky. I am sorry I do not have any advice for you on how to work these out. I would suggest, if you could, meet with some trans women to try and get some information.
A little more information on your feelings might help.
I don't think liking things associated with a certain gender makes any difference. Not all ciswomen like only girly things and vice versa. For example I enjoy make up and fashion but also action movies and wargaming. I don't let it define my gender though, I knew I was trans through other feelings.
I never felt comfortable with my male body and always wanted a female one
I never felt comfortable in the male role and social situations and have always excelled in female ones
I never felt sexually aroused or comfortable by any situation where I was a man or in a male role
The list goes on but those were big ones.
I learned to act and look like a guy but I was really just a girl trapped in a costume. However during my time as a guy I acquired certain passions and hobbies that could be considered "male" which I intend to enjoy through and after transition because I love them, not because of their social gender tag.
Ultimus, could your feelings be a sort of temporary release from playing the alpha dog? You may not feel free to express certain emotions, preferences, etc in your daily identity.
The suggestions for experimenting and role-playing are spot-on. Many male assigned people get all the relief they need from that.
Of course, you could also require a full transition. Time will tell.
You seem to be describing me for the most part, except I am asian so I have small bone structure and I dislike watching sports. I enjoy many male dominant activities along with feminine ones. I had attraction to few men, but refused to acknowledge it since I grew up in a very conservative area with an equally conservative family. Nobody would ever guess I am transgender since all they see is my alpha side, which is the facade I wanted everyone to see.
Ever hear of butch ladies? =P While most of us fit middle to middle left. Nothing wrong with being far right on the female personality scale.
Granted it doesn't guarantee anything, exploration will help for sure.
Like female-born women, trans women are allowed to be whatever kind of women they choose. Lots of women like shooting, contact sports, etc. Lots of women don't wear makeup, jewelry, lace, etc.
You're allowed to be yourself. Everyone is.
This is definitely how I feel, too. Forced into the male role I find myself hating women who like fitting in their classical female role. It´s jealousy, really.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 30, 2012, 09:42:21 PM
Describe your "transgender feelings."
My whole life, since my earliest memories, I have crossdressed and had cross gender fantasies. I distinctly remember during nap time in kindergarten, I would day dream about being a girl. I've done so ever since then.
I have a deep internal desire to have a female's body and clothes and external appearance.
My feelings are largely sexual in nature - my ultimate sexual fulfillment comes not from having sex with a woman, but from actually being the woman.
Quote from: Slightly Interested on September 30, 2012, 09:42:32 PM
Have you ever tried experimenting? Role-play as the other gender or masking your apparent gender? Cross dressing?
Local support groups may help - building friendships or gathering the opinions of potentially like-minded people.
I have a stash of clothes in my room that I dress up in sometimes. I also went on hormones for 20 days, but I quit because I got scared that it was going to be the wrong decision.
Quote from: Forum Admin on September 30, 2012, 10:06:56 PM
Ultimus, could your feelings be a sort of temporary release from playing the alpha dog? You may not feel free to express certain emotions, preferences, etc in your daily identity.
The suggestions for experimenting and role-playing are spot-on. Many male assigned people get all the relief they need from that.
Of course, you could also require a full transition. Time will tell.
Well yeah, time will tell. But I'd rather have time tell while I'm 21 then when I'm 41 and married with kids. I've been in therapy since age 18. So when am I ever suppose to know for sure if I'm transgender or not?
I'm still new to acknowledging myself as transgender, but one thing I've realized after 40 years of life - and after spending years researching this (and not acknowledging my own trans nature): it's rare for anyone to be 100% certain. You've spent most of your life being socially indoctrinated as a male despite what your brain is telling you. Of course you have doubts. Perhaps it's a matter of what feels "most" right to you.
And as others have said, why force yourself to break out of one gender stereotype just to switch and fit into another? Be your own person - define your own identity. Society has norms, but there millions of permutations on what it means to be a man or woman (or both or neither).
Are you feelings constant or do they come in waves? I think it's an important distinction. From what you described, it doesn't sound like you dislike being the "alpha male" type, but just that you sometimes feel you need a reprieve from being so.
I guess the easy answer is "Go to a therapist", but it's not like they magically hold the answers to everything.
Generally if your plan is to go from your current state to the complete opposite you might just find you missed where you wanted to be along the way. Going to where you want instead of forcing yourself to be the perfect other gender from your genetic one is going to be where you feel most comfortable. At least thats how I see where I want to go. Where that is as yet still unknown, going to try enjoy the journey :)
Maybe it's just like, a sexual thing for you. Some MTFs go on hormones only to realize their dysphoria left with their sex drive.
Maybe you could experiment w/ that before you throw out your whole identity and stuff.
Ok, so I made a pros and cons list of why I may or may not be transgender. What are your thoughts?
Reasons I may be transgender:
-Literally my earliest memory is wearing my sister's clothes and loving it. I have been crossdressing ever since then.
-I started daydreaming about being a girl at age 5. It subsided for a little while, but then since the age of 13, I have sexually fantasized about being a girl every single day, multiple times a day for the past 8 years.
-I am not trying to sound crass, but my first orgasm was while wearing girl's clothes.
-Imagining myself as a woman gives me the greatest pleasure and fulfillment that I've ever experienced in life.
-I am engulfed by transgender culture. I subscribe to transgender blogs, I watch transgender video journals on youtube, I read transgender news websites. I am really fascinated by it.
-My whole sexual orientation seems defined by these crossgender feelings.
Reasons I may not be transgender:
-I have zero female likes, interests, or hobbies.
-I am very masculine
-I am going into a male dominated career path (mathematician)
-I can't imagine myself participating in stereotypical female social roles, like sitting around and doing girl's gossip hour.
-I would not want to alter my voice if I transitioned. My voice is part of my identity.
-I would say that I am attracted to women, but I've never really envisioned myself as a lesbian. I have never been attracted to lesbian pornography.
-I see old ladies and I'm like, "lol, no. I don't want to look like them." They seem to weak and frail.
-When I'm done fantasizing, the feelings subside temporarily.
Other factors:
-I am romantically and somewhat physically attracted to women, but I don't really get too sexually attracted to them. If I do, it's very weak compared to my crossgender sexual attraction. My so called "crossgender sexual attraction" involves me fantasizing about being a woman and sometimes having sex with men (because it makes me feel more like a female).
-I could never relate to the other guys in the locker room who would boast about "banging girls." I don't get normal sexual feelings towards girls. I've never thought, "Man, I would love to have sexual intercourse with this girl."
I am certainly not an expert, but it sounds mainly sexual. Have you tried going to a bar while cross dressing? Also, you don't need to answer this one. have you tried acting out your sexual fantasies? It might help to figure yourself out a bit. I know for me, being trans has nothing to do with sex. I don't get turned on by women's clothes, or by being in the female role. It is just about being the real me.
I wouldn't worry about not having any typically female interests. There are plenty of women who have no interest in them. You like what you like, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Quote from: Ultimus on October 03, 2012, 11:03:30 AM
-I see old ladies and I'm like, "lol, no. I don't want to look like them." They seem to weak and frail.
Have you ever looked at an old man and said "yeah, i want to look like that when I'm old"?
Most people don't want to look old no matter the gender - yet it's a fact that eventually we all will get there.
Personally, I'd rather spend the second half of my life in my preferred gender rather than get progressively older and become the old man wishing he'd had the courage to have grown into the beautiful old woman.
And I agree that it sounds like much of your thoughts on this are sexual in nature. Not a judgement, just an observation. You should really talk with a gender therapist - someone trained in helping you to answer these questions.
Not saying sexual fantasies don't play a role in other's GID issues: sex is an aspect of mine, but not in a fetishistic way - only as an indicator as I always see myself as a woman in my fantasies. But I see myself as a woman in many things that have nothing to do with sex.
And who says women can't be brainy mathematician types? I usually find geek girls very sexy. I even married one.
Coming from the other side (FTM)...do you actually see yourself living, fully, as a woman? Other than outside of fantasies? It doesn't mean you have to engage in "traditionally" female activities. It just means, would you be comfortable doing EVERYTHING as a woman? Married as a woman, lesbian or not. Parenting as a mother, not a father. Going to school as a woman. Working as a woman, even if it is in a male dominated field (a lot of girls do). Walking down the street as a woman. Every little mundane task in life, as a woman.
For me, although picturing myself having my body finally line up with the man I am inside does make me happy, at the end of the day, it is characterized by a normalness. When I get seen as the man I am, I don't feel a lot of pleasure now that I am actually there. For me, it's just how it was always meant to be and I embrace the boringness. The dysphoria wasn't replaced by a euphoria, just by normalcy and contentment. Would you feel those things as a woman? would it be simply routine and simply the way things were meant to be from the start?
Yes, you're a transgender person by definition. Transgender is an umbrella term though and, includes all aspects of behavior that transgress/transcend "traditional" gender roles in the culture you identify with. Of all the various types of people lumped under the transgender umbrella, few actually transition from one gender role to another perminantly. Transsexuals are one of these types. It's like the terminology used to describe vehicles. Imagine if everything that had wheels was transgendered but only bicycles were transsexual. In other words, all bicycles have wheels but, not everything with wheels is a bicycle. The area of the forum you are posting in, is identified as being a resource for transsexual people so, many of the responses you get are going to come from that perspective.
Quote from: edderkopp on October 03, 2012, 01:08:18 PM
Coming from the other side (FTM)...do you actually see yourself living, fully, as a woman? Other than outside of fantasies? It doesn't mean you have to engage in "traditionally" female activities. It just means, would you be comfortable doing EVERYTHING as a woman? Married as a woman, lesbian or not. Parenting as a mother, not a father. Going to school as a woman. Working as a woman, even if it is in a male dominated field (a lot of girls do). Walking down the street as a woman. Every little mundane task in life, as a woman.
For me, although picturing myself having my body finally line up with the man I am inside does make me happy, at the end of the day, it is characterized by a normalness. When I get seen as the man I am, I don't feel a lot of pleasure now that I am actually there. For me, it's just how it was always meant to be and I embrace the boringness. The dysphoria wasn't replaced by a euphoria, just by normalcy and contentment. Would you feel those things as a woman? would it be simply routine and simply the way things were meant to be from the start?
This
I went through the process of re-evaluating my ''male'' activities. I have practiced and taught various martial arts including mma my whole life. I hated the locker room talk and never felt like I fit in too. I also still watch the UFC (although to be honest my interest is starting to dwindle). About 1 year ago I stopped practicing and teaching it when my transitioning became a priority for my well being. It took that time to understand that there is no such thing as ''male'' activities...only activities that I want to do or don't want to do. Your allowed to be (if you feel you are) a woman with a strong and authoritative character who enjoys fighting sports.
I'm surprised to hear that all those therapists didn't suggest anything to help you sort things out. I guess like a few have posted sometimes experience is the only way to get some clarity.
Quote from: Isabelle on October 03, 2012, 01:28:28 PM
Yes, you're a transgender person by definition. Transgender is an umbrella term though and, includes all aspects of behavior that transgress/transcend "traditional" gender roles in the culture you identify with. Of all the various types of people lumped under the transgender umbrella, few actually transition from one gender role to another perminantly. Transsexuals are one of these types. It's like the terminology used to describe vehicles. Imagine if everything that had wheels was transgendered but only bicycles were transsexual. In other words, all bicycles have wheels but, not everything with wheels is a bicycle. The area of the forum you are posting in, is identified as being a resource for transsexual people so, many of the responses you get are going to come from that perspective.
I thought it was obvious that what I was intending to say was, "Am I transgender....to the point of transitioning." I'm trying to determine if I am transsexual. I know that I'm somewhere on the transgender spectrum.
Quote from: PaigeMtl on October 03, 2012, 03:03:27 PM
I went through the process of re-evaluating my ''male'' activities. I have practiced and taught various martial arts including mma my whole life. I hated the locker room talk and never felt like I fit in too. I also still watch the UFC (although to be honest my interest is starting to dwindle). About 1 year ago I stopped practicing and teaching it when my transitioning became a priority for my well being. It took that time to understand that there is no such thing as ''male'' activities...only activities that I want to do or don't want to do. Your allowed to be (if you feel you are) a woman with a strong and authoritative character who enjoys fighting sports.
I'm surprised to hear that all those therapists didn't suggest anything to help you sort things out. I guess like a few have posted sometimes experience is the only way to get some clarity.
Did I mention mma in my OP? I think I forgot. Because I am a HUGE MMA fan. I watch every UFC, Strikeforce, and Bellator, plus I post on MMA forums, and I compete in wrestling, boxing, and BJJ. Just won 3rd in the state for BJJ!
How have you found transitioning to affect your practicing of mma?
QuoteI thought it was obvious that what I was intending to say was, "Am I transgender....to the point of transitioning." I'm trying to determine if I am transsexual. I know that I'm somewhere on the transgender spectrum.
Well, I apologize but, I wasn't obvious to me. Based on your description of yourself, you don't sound like a transsexual to me. It sounds like you enjoy transvestic fetishism/paraphillic transvestism.
Quote from: PaigeMtl on October 03, 2012, 03:03:27 PM
I went through the process of re-evaluating my ''male'' activities. I have practiced and taught various martial arts including mma my whole life. I hated the locker room talk and never felt like I fit in too. I also still watch the UFC (although to be honest my interest is starting to dwindle). About 1 year ago I stopped practicing and teaching it when my transitioning became a priority for my well being. It took that time to understand that there is no such thing as ''male'' activities...only activities that I want to do or don't want to do. Your allowed to be (if you feel you are) a woman with a strong and authoritative character who enjoys fighting sports.
I'm surprised to hear that all those therapists didn't suggest anything to help you sort things out. I guess like a few have posted sometimes experience is the only way to get some clarity.
Well even if you say mma isn't a "male" activity it's not gonna change the fact that the people who like mma are like 100% male.
TBH I do not think these threads are very good because people try to talk other people into transition as if it is right for everyone... maybe to feel more secure about their own transition. It is a really serious step and it is not right for everyone. :-\
Quote from: pretty on October 03, 2012, 06:44:19 PM
Well even if you say mma isn't a "male" activity it's not gonna change the fact that the people who like mma are like 100% male.
TBH I do not think these threads are very good because people try to talk other people into transition as if it is right for everyone... maybe to feel more secure about their own transition. It is a really serious step and it is not right for everyone. :-\
I strongly disagree. I would say mma fans are 80% male. Women's mma is growing quickly. Ever heard of Ronda Rousey?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fadmin.mmaweekly.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F%2F2012%2F03%2FRonda-Rousey_1650.jpg&hash=cd5e06a19d27d582bf53080fef0cb2a2cfdac47d)
Quote from: Ultimus on October 03, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
I strongly disagree. I would say mma fans are 80% male. Women's mma is growing quickly. Ever heard of Ronda Rousey?
Lol no I have not ::)
I believe you are probably border line transvestite/transexual
What you need to know is how would it be to live totally as a woman. This just means being totally in sync, doing everything on a daily basis as a woman, either in a same sex relationship (girl to girl) or with a man.
Would be totally at peace emotionally doing absolutely everything as a woman. Think about your daily or weekly routine in fact if you have a sister or your mother think about what they do daily. Could you be relaxed and be happy like this.
For me, my male existence was one of stress, concern, awkwardness, whereas my girlfriends always said as a woman, there was a dramatic change in my outlook almost like as a woman I had reached normalcy and contentment.
This contentment and normalcy became second nature to me and as I just got on with life as JudithLynn, my confidence grew.
I remember meeting a girl at work and she was breast feeding her recently born baby and I told her I had always wondered what would it be like to suckle a baby on my breast. A few weeks layer I was visiting her at home and she said why don't I try it. She showed me hoe to position the baby and I did it because through the progesterone I had been lactating. This was in fact a very pleasurable experience - not sexual, but euphoric.
Would you be be comfortable breastfeeding and living in completely normalcy as a woman.
If not and it is just sexual then I reckon you are more a transvestite.
Thats where I started, but the pull towards HRT was just so strong. Now although I haven't fully transitioned and reverted to my pseudo male self, having been on HRT for more than 2years I have reached sort of limbo.
Hugs
Quote from: Ultimus on October 03, 2012, 05:18:17 PM
Did I mention mma in my OP? I think I forgot. Because I am a HUGE MMA fan. I watch every UFC, Strikeforce, and Bellator, plus I post on MMA forums, and I compete in wrestling, boxing, and BJJ. Just won 3rd in the state for BJJ!
How have you found transitioning to affect your practicing of mma?
To be honest I stopped practicing. My interest in watching UFC etc. has also greatly diminished. Some times I think I will go back to it again in a year or so with a different mind set / attitude towards it. Time will tell.
Only you know how important it is to you and the reasons why you keep doing it. Don't let any one tell you it's a guy thing. Those who do are the same people who limited freedom of expression (hence the fear of experimenting with gender or sexuality) and created a gender binary. lol that sounds cheesy..but it's kinda true.
Quote from: Ultimus on October 01, 2012, 10:31:55 AM
Well yeah, time will tell. But I'd rather have time tell while I'm 21 then when I'm 41 and married with kids. I've been in therapy since age 18. So when am I ever suppose to know for sure if I'm transgender or not?
You're so
honest to yourself AND others....your future wife. Not dragging an unsuspecting and unknowingly partner into the hellhole of a transitioning husband AND inflicting an identitycrisis on her. AND your future children.
You're so
honest by just admitting your interests etc ARE just
masculine instead of denying it and shouting down it's butch lesbian.
I really wish (future) lesbian MTF were like you.
Non-egoistical and full of consideration for others causing no harm.
Quote from: pretty on October 03, 2012, 06:44:19 PM
TBH I do not think these threads are very good because people try to talk other people into transition as if it is right for everyone... maybe to feel more secure about their own transition. It is a really serious step and it is not right for everyone. :-\
+1!
Most MTF aren't feminine in the slightest....I'm not talking about appearance but their (very!) masculine nature.
Very often I think....this TS'ism of very masculine, straight men/biological fathers must be a completely isolated deviation
within a completely masculine nature.
Quote from: Ultimus on September 30, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
I identify with the alpha male lifestyle. All of my hobbies and interests are those of a man. For instance, my favorite hobby is watching and participating in mma fighting. I grew up with all male interests. I was in the boy scouts and became an eagle scout. All of my heroes are men. I don't have a feminine bone in my body. I'm not gay either.
Alright, let me explain something to you. Just because you have hobbies and interests that society would view as "male hobbies" (which in itself is silly, as no hobbies are male or female, we just make them that based on which is more common) doesn't mean that it clashes. There are PLENTY of women who like what you'd consider "male hobbies" and plenty of women who have much more male friends that female. Just because you are a woman doesn't mean you can't like MMA fighting, want to be a scout, have male heroes and so on. You don't have to love make-up, wear heels and watch chick-flicks every night to be a woman.
Quote from: Dahlia on October 15, 2012, 12:32:14 PM
+1!
Most MTF aren't feminine in the slightest....I'm not talking about appearance but their (very!) masculine nature.
Very often I think....this TS'ism of very masculine, straight men/biological fathers must be a completely isolated deviation within a completely masculine nature.
I'll just say that transition isn't for everyone and I sometimes see this message getting drowned out by support that can sometime cross the line into encouragement.
If this is of a sexual nature for you OP, then from what I've heard the sexual "high" doesn't last long. Not to mention that even a few months of hormone usage can leave you sterile, and then you won't even have what you originally had.
Quote from: Dahlia on October 15, 2012, 12:32:14 PM
+1!
Most MTF aren't feminine in the slightest....I'm not talking about appearance but their (very!) masculine nature.
Very often I think....this TS'ism of very masculine, straight men/biologicalwomen must be a completely isolated deviation within a completely masculine nature.
As much as I don't want to, I kind of agree. Its very, very common. A friend of mine who is around a BUNCH of trans women day after day told me that I'm the first one he could see me as female by personality. he went on to say all the ones he has met are more interested in sex, money, and violence. Now, he is one of those 21 year old straight guys that are like "women dont have penises" so his opinions are rather ignorant or new, but if I'm the first trans he could see that in, that's a indication of how masculine the mtf community may be... at least in my area.
If you are masculine and plan on transitioning, I think its going to be difficult gaining respect from cis males. Maybe I'm wrong... hope I am, but it just seems they kind of reject the idea of gender expression more than cis women.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 15, 2012, 01:02:31 PM
A friend of mine who is around a BUNCH of trans women day after day
Now, he is one of those 21 year old straight guys that are like "women dont have penises" so his opinions are rather ignorant or new,
Just curiousity...but what is your 'ignorant' straight 'women don't have penises' friend doing around a BUNCH of trans women day after day?
Quoteand violence.
Especially the violence thing is something ehm, appalling to me. How many times I've read here on Susan's about liking 'to shoot big guns' or about 'army girls'.....I've lost count!
Quote from: Dahlia on October 15, 2012, 01:27:07 PM
Just curiousity...but what is your 'ignorant' straight 'women don't have penises' friend doing around a BUNCH of trans women day after day?
LMFOAOAO
OMG
gotta <3 ya for this stuff.
Quote from: Dahlia on October 15, 2012, 01:27:07 PM
Especially the violence thing is something ehm, appalling to me. How many times I've read here on Susan's about liking 'to shoot big guns' or about 'army girls'.....I've lost count!
So, do you have a problem with weapons and veterans? I am not trying to single you out, I am just trying to better understand what you wrote.
Thank Susan for this amazing forum. The varied array of responses from trans people on trans issues found in this and every thread on this website - is an invaluable resource, and I would suggest not taking any of these people's experience lightly.
Of course we ought not urge you toward our destination. You can only ever know if transition is right for you. But understand that should you choose to transition, it will be distinct and unique for you. None of us go to the same place, all of our transitions are custom made to fulfill a personal inner peace.
This doesnt mean everyone can transition happily. It certainly doesn't mean you Should. You have carried this with you for a lifetime. How can you unburden yourself?
Isolate your sexual fantasy to be a woman. It is far too risky to consider total life alteration based on a sexuality. Especially because the process to transform into your sexual fantasy will likely redefine sexuality as you know it today - and the fantasy you set out to realize will be gone.
There are no rules. You are doing the right thing asking questions, you obviously spend a lot of time on this issue.
HRT can be diagnostic. If medical transition is right for you, the changes HRT brings will give you a sense of peace and joy. If they do the opposite...that being said, I don't believe your 20 days on HRT should be seen as evidence against your transsexualism necessarily. Hormones are scary. They are a game changer, and should be taken with incredible caution and clarity. You may need hormones but perhaps were not ready.
This is a long and slow journey. If you don't know if you want or need to transition now, it's OK. There is no rush. I know you want to figure this out before you're 40, but if you remain present and active on this area of your life..you will.
Get back on therapy.
Devise a plan to find out what this is all about: go out dressed, try dressing at a time you're not Horny! If that means jerking off and then getting your dress on, do it.
Keep talking. Reading is great but nothing beats discussion like this.
Be patient....everyone on here will tell you that - listen.
Also! Consider working with your doctor and therapist on this idea - taking Testosterone blockers alone. Taking only T blockers for some time will cause the sexual side effects of HRT to begin. In this way, you would see if your sexual urges were the driving force behind it all, without growing breasts (probably) in the process. Of course being only on tblockers has its risks, and is obviously only possible in safety under care of a physician.
Join a support group so you can build relationships with trans women. I did this immediately because I wanted to see if I related to them at all. I learned that we are all different, but I did find a commonality that is hard to always define.
Be gentle on yourself. HRT is something that works better the younger you are, but there is no major difference between starting at 21 or 25. Take your time. X
Quote from: Dahlia on October 15, 2012, 01:27:07 PM
Just curiousity...but what is your 'ignorant' straight 'women don't have penises' friend doing around a BUNCH of trans women day after day?
He's a stripper at a gay club where LOTS of trans girls frequent, and dance. Plus, this is New Orleans, I've met more in 1 week than I've met my entire life anywhere.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 15, 2012, 02:35:09 PM
He's a stripper at a gay club where LOTS of trans girls frequent, and dance. Plus, this is New Orleans, I've met more in 1 week than I've met my entire life anywhere.
oh, so he's one of those straight guys who works at gay clubs for the higher tips?
In other words, he's "str8". *yawn* Gay guys eat up the "str8" act.
Quote from: Ave on October 15, 2012, 02:38:47 PM
oh, so he's one of those straight guys who works at gay clubs for the higher tips?
In other words, he's "str8". *yawn* Gay guys eat up the "str8" act.
He would do a Chippendales but there aren't any around here that are hiring. But yup, that's what he does.
Quote from: ZoeNicole on October 01, 2012, 12:04:35 PM
Generally if your plan is to go from your current state to the complete opposite you might just find you missed where you wanted to be along the way. Going to where you want instead of forcing yourself to be the perfect other gender from your genetic one is going to be where you feel most comfortable. :)
Excellent point and one that is sometimes overlooked!
Maybe it's possible that the sex aspect is strong because you feel more "yourself" than as a man. I am not turned on by male on male sex AT ALL, but I think I could be happy in a hetero relationship with a man as a woman.
As far as hobbies go, guys love women that are into the same thing that they are into and society generally has no problem with women who enjoy "typically" male activities. You will probably catch more grief presenting as a woman with a manly voice but that's your choice. You may also find that a lot of things you find exciting now, may change if you have no testosterone in your system and you are full of E.
I think it would probably be very beneficial for you to do short term HRT and make sure you get you E and T in the proper ranges. Almost all fetishistic behavior will disappear when your T bottoms out and you will have a better idea of what makes your really "tick".
Good luck on your journey and I can't recommend enough that you figure this out now rather than when you are older. It's far less complicated now and you will get a lot better results from HRT.
I struggle with believing that an MtF would have an alpha-male identity, but I suppose it's not too uncommon, relatively speaking. However, it's not your interests that concern me; actually, what I think is particularly striking is the fact that you went on hormones, and then went off shortly after because of fear.
It's a tell-tale sign. You should probably go on hormones again, and if that fear returns, then you can either ignore it, or hear what it's telling you. If it feels wrong, then it's wrong. If you're afraid of growing breasts, then that's a problem, and if you're hesitant about your sex drive being reduced, and your testes shrinking, then you probably shouldn't take them.
For me, hormones were right. There was no worrying about whether the decision was right or wrong, and it didn't matter what they did or didn't do, so long as they did something, and the more the better!
Hormones are the most effective diagnostic tool for possible transsexual individuals. They almost always strike the heart, telling a person if what they are doing is something right, or something to avoid.
Best wishes.
I agree with Kelly.
When I started hrt it was like a lightbulb was turned on in my world. I feel so "normal" and happy and healthy now. Before I was anxious, depressed, moody, nothing positive. Hrt makes me feel like I "fit" in my skin and in the world. Before, it was like I was was a reluctant guest from another planet. Granted, I still do feel like an alien in "my" culture at times but, at least I'm beginning to enjoy my "stay" on this mouldy little rock in "our" universe :)
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on October 16, 2012, 02:51:26 AM
I struggle with believing that an MtF would have an alpha-male identity, but I suppose it's not too uncommon. relatively speaking.
Its actually quite common. The theory is the individual is overcompensating in an attempt to repress or stamp out their transgender feelings.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 16, 2012, 06:27:26 AM
Its actually quite common. The theory is the individual is overcompensating in an attempt to repress or stamp out their transgender feelings.
Perhaps I am a rare specimen, but I am incapable of lying to myself, and I would like to believe that the same applies to every human being. Overcompensation would be me trying to change who I am to conform to an image upheld by a society I don't care for in the first place. I would be incapable of being an alpha male, because the way I move, speak, look... nothing about my male self had even the potential for it, except perhaps my voice. I had a sexy male voice, one that I can't do any more (thank God!).
Maybe they do repress and overcompensate, but I would assume that the feeling of being a cis male persists more than it is described to - as if it's something to be ashamed about! Trans elitism still exists in that regard, in that knowing at x age, and transitioning at y age, is all about the lower numbers. If you didn't know at x, you can't really be trans, right? Eyeroll.
I'm obviously too subjective here. I have no idea what it's like to be capable of changing one's own mind, to be able to lie to oneself, or to be capable of being an alpha male, and so I assume that most trans MtFs also share those qualities. Mistakenly. The best part is, while I realize my error, I still believe what I'm saying.
I mean, if you lived as an alpha-male... wouldn't that just make you hate yourself
even more with every passing day? It just seems so counter-intuitive.
Bleh. Humans, make sense for once.
sorry, i refuse to make sense. the perfect state of being would be alpha male/dominatrix/perfect housewife. maybe not perfect housewife, since i'm no good at it, but i do like to cook. ah, wait, i think i forgot flaming gay. so, i'm a confused/ing mess, and figured i like it.
but back to the op's problem. there are whole (little) communities in norway where everybody becomes a car mechanic. regardless of gender or other interests, or maybe they're all genuinely interested in that job. many women love to watch men beat each other half to death (mma), and would even watch women do the same. having the same interests as a stereotypical alpha male doesn't disqualify anyone as a woman
that said, loving to crossdress doesn't have to mean that you are a woman. maybe you'd like to be treated as a woman only in sexual situations? there's nothing wrong with that. there are communities for all kinds of sexual fetishes, you might want to seek those out too while trying to figure yourself out. there are also people who aren't stricly male or female. have you considered the possibility that you might be both genders?
At least in the USA there is no shortage of Alpha females.
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on October 16, 2012, 06:49:26 AM
Perhaps I am a rare specimen, but I am incapable of lying to myself, and I would like to believe that the same applies to every human being. Overcompensation would be me trying to change who I am to conform to an image upheld by a society I don't care for in the first place. I would be incapable of being an alpha male, because the way I move, speak, look... nothing about my male self had even the potential for it, except perhaps my voice. I had a sexy male voice, one that I can't do any more (thank God!).
Maybe they do repress and overcompensate, but I would assume that the feeling of being a cis male persists more than it is described to - as if it's something to be ashamed about! Trans elitism still exists in that regard, in that knowing at x age, and transitioning at y age, is all about the lower numbers. If you didn't know at x, you can't really be trans, right? Eyeroll.
I'm obviously too subjective here. I have no idea what it's like to be capable of changing one's own mind, to be able to lie to oneself, or to be capable of being an alpha male, and so I assume that most trans MtFs also share those qualities. Mistakenly. The best part is, while I realize my error, I still believe what I'm saying.
I mean, if you lived as an alpha-male... wouldn't that just make you hate yourself even more with every passing day? It just seems so counter-intuitive.
Bleh. Humans, make sense for once.
Omg! The idea that people can't lie to themselves is some sort of utopian fantasy. A large portion of our collective problems probably come from being dishonest with ourselves. The fact that you are incapable of this classic Human trait is an uncanny phenomena, and either you should be very grateful for being an anomaly or you should look at how you may being dishonest with yourself about all of your own dishonesty! haha, I am not trying to say you're lying here, I trust you - and certainly in regards to being trans and not faking it male.
It is SO common for trans women to come out from hiding under a very masculine facade. I was always incredibly feminine in my behavior and voice, and couldn't pass as a typical male at all - and because I believed that I was supposed to be/was a male, I was majorly depressed about my identity and my actual self. But rather than understand my femininity as the obvious self nurturing route to embrace and follow, I denied it completely, and chose to project masculinity wherever possible, in order to be read as a normal male, so that society would like me.
I worked out excessively. I hated my body like this, and I would stare at myself in the mirror while at the gym wondering why I was doing this to myself - and literally having no clue what it was really about. All I knew was that the world respected me more the more I appeared male, and I hated my feminine self so much that I wanted to erase her.
The alternative, accepting that I was trans and was/wanted to be a woman, was unthinkable. My social world had constructed such strict principles about who I was based on what my body was, that I never questioned those boundaries - just lived in misery withi them. Any thought of being trans was wiped from my mind.
You're right! It is HELL to be like that. Because you're working directly against the honesty of your truth. It is catastrophic to the spirit, and it can not be sustained. Especially since I totally failed at being the MAN this world wants me to be. I tried to play the part, but would become so morbidly depressed in this costume that I would fade back into a more feminine me...and go with that for as long as I could, until I became scared again. Then I would re-masculinize. It was a terrible cycle and it lasted for years.
Anyway THIS is the power of Denial. Thats why I was so shocked by your assumption that most people don't have it...because it is the driving force behind so much of our shame. Life outside of denial is heaven. When we live in honesty with ourselves and our world, we flourish and can find peace. I still lie to myself all the time - but the difference is I am conciously aware and actively observing my mind and taking positive action to realign my intentions with self-nurturing care.
This may, or may not, be relevant to the OP. There simply is no way for us to diagnose them. Of course, all of the concerns posed here are valid - and should be taken seriously. This is n o t for everyone, and while transition provides life saving treatment for Us - it could provide the opposite for someone who has found it for the wrong reasons.
being dishonest with ourselves
Hell, if it wasn't for that and a modicum of denial most people would never get out of bed in the morning.
Quote from: Ultimus on September 30, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
I identify with the alpha male lifestyle. All of my hobbies and interests are those of a man. For instance, my favorite hobby is watching and participating in mma fighting. I grew up with all male interests. I was in the boy scouts and became an eagle scout. All of my heroes are men. I don't have a feminine bone in my body. I'm not gay either.
I raced cars for years with "the good old boys", I still ride sport bikes. I loved being a boy scout, camping etc. I have zewro interest in cooking, sewing etc. I was a car mechanic for 30 years and loved it. I LOVE being in charge and I love to win at anything I do.
But at the end of the day I have now become a woman but still have some of these same interests. You don't think there are Alpha type women? Or like women who like "mens sports"? I can't relate to the "I don't have a feminine bone in my body" part but the rest I can relate to. I really don't buy the whole "A real MTF would be introverted and feminine their whole life" concept. Plays too much on the -ideal female- stereotype that women should be submissive and not want to be in charge of anything etc.
Quote from: Stephe on October 16, 2012, 12:06:57 PM
I raced cars for years with "the good old boys", I still ride sport bikes. I loved being a boy scout, camping etc. I have zewro interest in cooking, sewing etc. I was a car mechanic for 30 years and loved it. I LOVE being in charge and I love to win at anything I do.
But at the end of the day I have now become a woman but still have some of these same interests. You don't think there are Alpha type women? Or like women who like "mens sports"? I can't relate to the "I don't have a feminine bone in my body" part but the rest I can relate to. I really don't buy the whole "A real MTF would be introverted and feminine their whole life" concept. Plays too much on the -ideal female- stereotype that women should be submissive and not want to be in charge of anything etc.
Hear, hear!
I'm a lone wolf alpha girl. When I go out in boy mode, I'm still a lone wolf alpha. I don't do submission. I don't like football, rugby, or cricket, but that's because they're team activities. I do like athletics, and kung fu, and swordfighting. I also like ballet, and gymnastics. And dancing, and science, and art.
All those stereotypical "female" activities, like socializing and gossiping, buying too many sets of shoes, having no taste in movies or music, and generally acting like a twelve-year-old, they're not really what defines a woman. They're optional.
You know, when I was a kid and watching all those 1980s martial arts flicks, between all the JCVD and Seagal and Bolo Yeung, I think my favourite fighter was Cynthia Rothrock.
Favourite films: Whisper of the Heart, A Serbian Film, Drive, Akira, Requiem For A Dream
Favourite authors: J.G. Ballard, Aleister Crowley, William Gibson, Clive Barker, Paul W. Glimcher
I'm writing this wearing tights, girly trainers, low-rise jeans and a woman's turtleneck (all black), mascara, foundation and perfume (Miss Dior, smells great). Long hair done up in a high, Japanese-style, pony-tail with a pink ribbon. It's my everyday androgynous outfit, serious but playful. Earlier in the day, I flirted with, glared at, ignored, confused, and had serious business interactions with dozens of people walking around town. I walk the way a female athlete walks: bounce in my step, bum back, hips loose, back arched, settled, pushing and rolling off the ground. Jaunty and natural, beats the crap out of the unhealthy shuffling I see all around me.
In a way, I'm exactly the kind of girl the boy persona I used to maintain would have wanted to be with.
Feels right.
Maddie
Quote from: Maddie on October 17, 2012, 06:40:37 AM
All those stereotypical "female" activities, like socializing and gossiping, buying too many sets of shoes, having no taste in movies or music, and generally acting like a twelve-year-old, they're not really what defines a woman. They're optional.
Aren't those just misogynist stereotypes? Lmao. ::)
There are real differences in what men and women do but a lot of people just project their unrelated prejudices (like those) onto women (and when they transition even themselves...)
Quote from: Maddie on October 17, 2012, 06:40:37 AM
All those stereotypical "female" activities, like socializing and gossiping, buying too many sets of shoes, having no taste in movies or music, and generally acting like a twelve-year-old, they're not really what defines a woman. They're optional.
I consider myself pretty feminine ... and kinda found those stereotypes a little degrading... or at least how you made it all sound like a bad thing! I mean no taste in movies or music? Maybe I think death metal and macho violence movies are tasteless.
I'm gonna hold my tongue on mocking masculine behavior...
Quote from: Maddie on October 17, 2012, 06:40:37 AM
All those stereotypical "female" activities, like socializing and gossiping, buying too many sets of shoes, having no taste in movies or music, and generally acting like a twelve-year-old, they're not really what defines a woman. They're optional.
I just love the positive outlook you have on women. Very inspiring. >:(
They did say "stereotype".. just like a guy one would be belching and drinking beer watching football.
BTW I do love buying too many sets of shoes :P
Hey! I like watching football!!! :D
Quote from: Stephe on October 17, 2012, 09:20:08 PM
BTW I do love buying too many sets of shoes :P
I don't think there is such a thing as too many shoes. ;D ;D
Quote from: Brooke777 on October 17, 2012, 10:19:41 PM
I don't think there is such a thing as too many shoes. ;D ;D
True. Unfortunately there are such things as too-small closets! :(
I don't think there is such a thing as too many shoes.
My son would agree, he has over 50 pairs. Me, I've got about 5. 7 if you toss in my two pair of work boots.
Quote from: SageFox on October 17, 2012, 10:43:13 PM
True. Unfortunately there are such things as too-small closets! :(
No kidding. I can't fit all the stuff I have in my tiny closet :(
I've never had an alpha-male identity. I was always the girly guy who got bullied and beaten up - at least until I found I could give as good as I got. That was more self preservation than any kind of male identity though. I'm one of those trans women that stumbled through a male life.. I don't really understand them and I'm not interested in them romantically.. And yet some of my oldest and best friends are guys - go figure.
Quote from: SageFox on October 17, 2012, 10:43:13 PM
True. Unfortunately there are such things as too-small closets! :(
I found more room in my closet for clothes and shoes once I removed myself from it..
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 16, 2012, 06:27:26 AM
Its actually quite common. The theory is the individual is overcompensating in an attempt to repress or stamp out their transgender feelings.
I can certainly identify with this statement. I learned to play the alpha male role very well indeed. However it was not until much later that I recognised that the alpha male was not my real self. Once I recognised that I was TG, started hrt and realised that I did not have to adopt a rigid male binary in terms of presentation my dysphoria disappeared, I felt at peace with myself and with others. The continual noise just disappeared. I am now in a much better place and have learned that gender expression is fluid and identity evolves. It has not been an easy journey particularly when you start out doing all you can to convince yourself and others that you are an alpha male and that is the only possibility that you can conceive of
My personal clash is mind against body. I don't have a single male related hobby. I hate car races (waste of useful resources), football is boring and impossible to understand (no interest in handegg, too), and I hate all sort of violence, be it in sport or real life. Maybe the violence thing is caused by the bullying, or maybe not. Cooking is nothing more than a survival skill, but I love creative hobbies and I do want to lean how to use a sewing machine (I have a few ideas for a doll I want to put in practice). I used to have lots of un-manly hobbies, but I had to stop because of the social pressure and stick with the "male accepted" ones like photography, videogames or movies... Whenever I let slip that I have knowledge on fashion or any other thing labelled as un-manly I will get the "gaaayyyyyy" looks along with "you need a girlfriend and more sex".
I have tried to get on "manly" hobbies thinking it would look correct at the eyes of society and telling myself that un-manly things were an aberration.
Yet, I can't find a single "girly" thing in me outside my mind. No physical features, voice, movement... I can modify the clothing presentation within the accepted limits... Raising the pitch just a bit and talk without all of the resonance (removing it completely will raise complaints). It sucks a lot. I won't talk about the hair, it is an unusable thing on life support. Trying to smile casually... Well, it is hard with depression. I may have adopted a few mannerisms on things like sitting or occupying public space, but I still feel like something trapped inside a heavy, bulky and hard to move body.
Movement is the worst. It is like piloting the Mazinger Z from a tiny cockpit, and always stiff to the extreme to overcompensate for the previous bad posture when I moved like a hunchback for years, always looking down to the floor, I now have the same walking wait as Robocop (minus the gun on the thigh). I can't feel fluid, and I am always at a maximum tension, looking for danger at the turn of the corner. If I try to ease the tension and relax, I feel that I am walking like I did before and my neck goes back to acting like a turtle. I know, there are to many years of no exercise, self care, etc... When three years ago I started worrying about my self image, I did it to attain a dominant male look, and I changed from walking like quasimodo moving like Schwarzenegger on the Terminator Films. I don't have a natural balance, and it used to be worse. The last year, I would hit against the walls while moving and hit things like fire extinguisers. I am recovering a bit of balance thanks to the physical therapy, but I can't shake the robocop feeling. In the moment I loosen the body I keep going back to the bad postural habits.
Maybe is just a matter of time. I did not recover a neutral stance until three weeks ago, I have months of therapy until fixing the bones and I need to improve the muscular tone... Or I could get into pilates or something like that. The fact is that all of this physical feeling is the biggest thing that keeps telling me "You can't be transgender like this".
Oddly, no crossdressing fetishism here, it just makes me feel bad, the same as lying. Just a sad costume representing what I am not.
Come on. Lets not be masculinists ourselves. Some people around here said something that can share very well my opinion, specially MaidofOrleans.
Times are different, 2012. There's absolutely nothing wrong with women liking sports, and martial arts, and... I dont know, cars, games! Its actually becoming something very common nowadays, and Im pretty much happy about that.
Why would you say its something exclusively for males? Forgive me, I dont mean to be rude, but thats silly. Stupid old-society rules. Break them! As many cis women do.
Quote from: Meria on October 18, 2012, 10:09:31 AM
Come on. Lets not be masculinists ourselves. Some people around here said something that can share very well my opinion, specially MaidofOrleans.
Times are different, 2012. There's absolutely nothing wrong with women liking sports, and martial arts, and... I dont know, cars, games! Its actually becoming something very common nowadays, and Im pretty much happy about that.
Why would you say its something exclusively for males? Forgive me, I dont mean to be rude, but thats silly. Stupid old-society rules. Break them! As many cis women do.
Times are different, sure. But it appears that at 2012 there are A LOT MTF who are (very, very) masculine, into very masculine things and former heteroguys/lesbians. Actually by far the majority of the MTF community.
FAR more than amongst ciswomen.
How come??
Quote from: Dahlia on October 19, 2012, 07:22:24 AM
Times are different, sure. But it appears that at 2012 there are A LOT MTF who are (very, very) masculine, into very masculine things and former heteroguys/lesbians. Actually by far the majority of the MTF community.
FAR more than amongst ciswomen.
How come??
I'm mostly lesbian but I am not masculine. I have never been a heteroguy and have never been into very masculine things.
So don't generalise.
Quote from: Dahlia on October 19, 2012, 07:22:24 AM
Times are different, sure. But it appears that at 2012 there are A LOT MTF who are (very, very) masculine, into very masculine things and former heteroguys/lesbians. Actually by far the majority of the MTF community.
FAR more than amongst ciswomen.
How come??
Easy. Most of have had many decades to solidfy what we like and what we are like. We've been living as males during that time.
And for me (please don't flame me. I'm not saying anyone else is this way), while the part of my brain that knows what gender it is seems to be female, other parts of my brain seem very typically male. I like board games, worked as a computer programmer, excelled in math, happily played with toy guns, soldiers, and trucks as a kid, and tend to get right to the point rather than being concerned with everyone's feelings. All of these traits are more common among males than females.
That's OK, I've decided. Doesn't make me less Trans or less of a woman. It's just reality.
Oh...my...goddess....
This thread has quickly become a repugnant recycling of mysoginistic stereotypes which function to disarm and disable women in subordination to men. If you haven't figured out by now that being a woman isn't correlated to your shoe collection - you have a lot of deprogramming from the sexist patriarchal society that forged you to do.
It is absolutely essential to examine our interests and mannerisms as we acknowledge our trans identity - it is important to dismantle conceptions about who we are and who we were told to be, or thought we were, as we redefine ourselves. It is healthy and normal to ask these questions, and certainly it is confusing for an Alpha Male to struggle with being transgender.
If this experience has taught me anything is to dispose of the rulebook. Human beings looks and act in an infinite combination of ways, and to strictly adhere any person to a standard applied to their sex-grouped community, is deadly. As trans people we often illuminate the problematic function of gender within our own heteronormative culture. We are subject to the same influences by society as cis people, but it becomes inflamed during our transitions, at least to the outside world. Its okay to like whatever you like...just remember that you're worth more than a list of butch/femme hobbies and behaviors. If I went around my friend group deciding whether or not people were men or women based on the standards I am reading in this thread, all of my cis girlfriends would be dudes.
Be very careful with this stuff - you're not responsible for putting these ideas into your head, but you are responsible for what you choose to do with them.
Quote from: Dahlia on October 19, 2012, 07:22:24 AM
Times are different, sure. But it appears that at 2012 there are A LOT MTF who are (very, very) masculine, into very masculine things and former heteroguys/lesbians. Actually by far the majority of the MTF community.
FAR more than amongst ciswomen.
How come??
Nice fat paint brush you have wielded, again...
Quote from: agfrommd on October 19, 2012, 08:32:46 AM
That's OK, I've decided. Doesn't make me less Trans or less of a woman. It's just reality.
Bottom line, don't sweat it. Like you, I know it doesn't make people any less or more of anything. If following this theory helps them feel better about who they are, I guess there isn't much harm in it.
For me, trying to define, analyze or categorize myself was an attempt to understand feelings in a way that made sense to a binary and rational brain. I never found that solution. Nearly driving myself to the funny farm in the process. To many variables. It was simply to much to deal with. It's rather ironic that In the end the only real solution for me was to accept myself as I am and define myself as simply "me" . Once I did that I became free to express myself in the way that felt right. I no longer cared about what was male or female. Over the years I moved more and more towards one end of the spectrum. It became apparent even to me who I really was. The lack of T confirmed the direction I was headed and it just felt right. These days I feel correct inside. Never felt that way before. Move slowly and make gradual steps and stop when it doesn't feel right inside. You may look around at that point and discover yourself. Good luck
I think a lot of people who point out that many trans women are "masculine" and homosexual (lesbian) are doing it out of bitterness and frustration; that if society sees our type of woman behaving that way, it'll make society see all of us that way and use those reasons (masculinity) to invalidate us as women. That it'll make society question our motives and our integrity. I can understand why some trans women try to apply this thought to their polarized sisters, and at one point I was even a little guilty of doing that myself -- but it is so very wrong.
To me, it makes sense that most trans women would enjoy male activities and be attracted to women:
1. Most trans women are raised as males. There is nothing inherently male or female about the vast majority of activities available to human beings. How many people would give up things that they were taught and indeed learned to like, even love? Not many. It's not about gender. It's mostly about where people were when they were kids, and their environment and culture tends to control that.
2. We're a gender anomaly. I don't think anyone can deny that gender has a relationship to sexuality. If gender identity is something genetic and we're given male parts with female brains, then doesn't it make sense that some of us would also receive a "male" sexuality? Sexuality, like gender, exists somewhere between the mental and the physical, and I think that general realm is where we suffer the most wire crossing. Maybe it just so happens that sexual identity has a strong tendency toward the physical.
For what it's worth, here's a description of me on this spectrum:
- I'm only and strongly attracted to men.
- I'm by and large into very "feminine" things (cooking, decorating, trinkets/jewelry, socializing, emotionally driven talking, watching and reading emotionally driven works, collecting pretty artwork, clothing and its applications as an artform).
- The only "masculine" things about me are that I love video games and most of my friends are guys.
It's frustrating to see that this is still such a community war, and it's frustrating to know that women in general continue to undergo these oppressive labels of what is and is not okay for us to do. If anything, the women of my type are the odd trans women. A lot of people could just as easily call us incredibly gay men averting our fate, and indeed some (really crazy) feminists do make that argument; much like other people argue that masculine/lesbian trans women are just fanatic male fetishists.
tl;dr Please, please give up this stereotype-driven argument and don't spread the opinion that masculine/gay trans women are somehow invalid - it's a really awful, mean, oppressive, blind argument that doesn't just hurt us as a community, but all women at large.
Sometimes I wonder if instead of Susan's (a site devoted to transgender issues) that by mistake I've wound up on a parody site devoted to upholding the most narrow and ridged sexual stereotypes of the 17th Century. Sort of like the difference between White House.com and White House.gov.
I wonder if most of the posters live in Podunk or East Jebus - because I'm pretty sure you don't live in a) a major city, or b) a big university town - because if you did you'd toss that notion that 'boys like sports and girls don't faster than that pair of Crocs you bought and thought were stylish for like a second and a half. In SF our team is won the division and is in the playoffs - and the amount of orange&black that people are wearing is staggering. Ever been to Chicago? I don't think you can find a girl who doesn't own and sports some Cubbies stuff (unless they are a Sox fans). The NFL came out 3 years ago with merch lines of woman's styles and cuts and it's selling like hot cakes - and for sure you've never been around someplace like University of Michigan when they play Michigan State. Nope not a single woman in that state interested in sports, nope.
It's like 2012 people, and women can be the boss and men can raise children. All sorts of people are interested in all sorts of different things, the more interesting they are, the more interests they have. The person I know who is an absolute god of soft goods (fabrics and draping) who does fabric treatments for theaters, corporations and the kind of parties you can't afford to go to rides a full hog Harley.
Stop with the stereotypes, which were not true in the first place and anymore are not even quaint or funny.
There's nothing wrong with living in a podunk town or BFE or in the middle of NYC. I like it in my podunk town because I enjoy my outdoor space, low volumes of traffic and the lack of elitist A-holes that the nearest city seems full of. And I moved here from a college town (BSU) because it IS a college town.
So what does location have to do with it? I grew up on military bases in England and Germany. I've traveled the globe and done more in my teenage years than most get to in a lifetime.
People cling to what's comfortable to them, especially when it's something they grew up with. Not every woman here will become a gun-loving butch lesbian with a shaved head, or become a girly-girl. a person is free to be what they wish.
T
Quoteif you did you'd toss that notion that 'boys like sports and girls don't faster than that pair of Crocs you bought and thought were stylish for like a second and a half.
Ill have you know, Crocs are still the most effective form of birth control ever developed. If you don't believe me, try to find a willing breeding partner while wearing them.
I say that because you must be coming from a pretty 'out of the mainstream' place if you really think that girls don't like sports, or that all boys do - and that's some kind of magic dividing line. I mean it really sounds kind of silly when you realize the total world domination that female American athletes hold over the rest of the world. Far more than their male counterparts.
I mean its possible to do both - to 'be all that you can be. I love the girl stuff in my life - the clothes, the relationships, the conversation patterns, the shopping expeditions, the more domestic stuff.
But it's not like any of this "girl stuff" in my life ever seemed to interfere with any of my male-type crap. I've raced dirt bikes, skied tons of double black diamond runs and participated in high school sports. I spit, swear, shoot guns and scratch my crotch in public. I play baseball, cheer the 49ers, read military history, and play heavy metal music really, really loud on my Stereo of the Gods. I drive a sports car and a 750cc racing motorcycle. I can do all the male repair stuff like fixing the toaster, dishwasher, plumbing, windows, washing machines, cars, lawnmowers and bikes. I hike, climb, canoe, sail and wear a business suit extremely well when I need to. I've done concert security/management/production off and on for 40 years including running mosh pits for some of the wildest bands to ever grace a stage. I've partied hardy so damn hard that it qualifies as an interstate crime spree replete with multiple federal felonies - not that they are all that hard to come by anymore - but we just called it Grateful Dead Summer Tour then.
And, I know lots of girls who wanted to do boy stuff. You know: join the Marines, wear jeans, ski hard, drive fast cars, be the boss. And they all did. And in defense of the men of my generation, most of us basically let them, taught them and even encouraged them to follow that course. So why should it be abnormal, extravagant or dysfunctional for a boy to want to do girl stuff once in a while? I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that our society and culture (collectively as well as individually) has some real major problems with that particular reversal. At any rate, I grew up in a period when these very issues were in a period of flux and change without equal in Western Civilization, so maybe I just got caught in a riptide or some backwash eddy of these currents, it's hard to say.
Since it keeps getting brought up, I have to say that I don't see cooking as a female thing, at all.
My greatgrandfather was head chef at a major metropolitan hotel, he did all the cooking in the family home. After he died, my grandfather took over. My dad rarely cooked and neither did my mum, we just went out to restaurants all the time. I did my own cooking whilst at uni, and so did my three housemates. Sometimes we cooked for each other, as well. I still cook. I'm good at it. When I go to a restaurant, 9 out of 10 times, the chef is male. When I watch cooking programmes on telly, the presenters are predominantly men. Off hand, the only current cisfemale pro cook I can think of who's really good is Lorraine Pascale, and, frankly, she's primarily a pastry chef.
Cooking is when I feel the least feminine.
I'm transitioning to escape the gender prison I was in. Why would I want my new gender to be another prison filled with conformity and stereotypes? It's just Orwellian, and this little world is bad enough already.
Kathy
Quote from: Ultimus on October 03, 2012, 11:03:30 AM
Ok, so I made a pros and cons list of why I may or may not be transgender. What are your thoughts?
People HATE some terms on here but what you're describing sounds exactly like what I've read about that or a similar paraphilia. There are people who get turned on imagining themselves as women and plenty of trans women I know don't get turned on by imagining themselves as men.
I think it could be considered it's own sexuality and if you have a strong sex drive then of course you'll be imagining yourself female-bodied a lot. You're definitely transgender spectrum, and that's always going to be harder than being straight, but that doesn't necessarily mean you need to go medically change your sex or try to be seen as female every day.
I personally don't really believe in very much of an innate gender and being alpha male can be socialized. THere is no conflict there. Try not to be sexist about it and black and white. Don't get confused about your behavior, how does it affect you? Do you have body dysphoria when not feeling sexy? Do you have social dysphoria about how your labeled or seen by others?
Try not to worry about it too much yourself. Go to a qualified therapist. See if you're obsessing of involved in some unhealthy behavior that has latched on to this part of you. You might find a freedom and a partner who can explore and enhance the way you fantasize and like to have sex and have a great life. It's not very useful to try to figure this out on your own if it's not clear and you don't accept it right away.
I have an alpha male identity that I am trying to forever leave behind. I've recently come with the analogy of being the calm and peaceful Bruce Banner trying to rid of the savage Hulk once and for all (although I'm MTF). There are legitimate reasons I've forced myself to justify by having male likes or traits. It's helped my career somewhat. There's also a "nobody messes with me" thing going on in my "tough guy" head. I have always try to project a "nongay" persona to family and friends, but more and more into my transition I am adopting a don't give a >-bleeped-< attitude. I used to care what society as a whole thought but now that's going away too.
I do have a great interest in sports and cars and other activities thought to be male oriented, but I have always had feminine mannerisms amongst other traits. Going on taking hormones for 5 years has helped shape my face tremendously, but I still need FFS no matter what. My body is finally taking shape, and I am losing alot of strength overall, which to me is a good thing.
One day I'll be rid of the monster. I'm still tring to figure if it's the monster within or the one I show the world.