Ok, I spelt his name wrong but still. What is this guys issue? and how does he have supporters. I know that many on the alt-right just stright up hate anything to do with equality with gender (with trans people or cis women), gays, other races and religions.
There is this guy named Milo, who attacks the trans community left right and center. He also attacks other religions and ect. But he is, or he acts very flambouyently gay. Correct me if i am wrong but are those people who are his fans, I thought they hated this kind of stuff. And many of them will admit that they do, except for Milo. They will hate anyone else who act like Milo in speech, apperance and such (minus his bigotry) but they love this guy. Now, Milo kinda of reminds me of Ben Carson. Carson said that in 1968 he sheltered white students from a riot in his university over African Americans started a riot in protest of MLKs assassination.Or that he tried to assult his mom and then on another occasion tried to stab a friend. In all these said stories there is noboday around to say that what Carson has said is true. Many, said there is no evidence this had happened. Still he uses this as a way to explain that he was broken and that he read the bible and after that, had been cured from bad temperment. He really played his ''violent'' image during his poltical trials. My guess is to win his biggest base, older far right white men from the south who beelive that all young black men are troubled and need some form of ''help''.... of course, with religion.
Then, there is Milo. He uses words that seem in line with the far right. He said, and keeps emthisizing that he ''Choose to be gay'' and it is a choice, and that he learned this from being fondled as a child (another far right wing smear). He goes on to even call Donald Trump ''daddy'' and says he only likes black people but has an excpetion for Trump.
In Milos cases, is he mentally there or is this a pattern. Where the far far right will welcome you with open arms only as long as you validate there assumptions on various people and sell everyone else out. And of course, play sterotypes.
a typical self loathing theist lbgt member ... that is whats milo and comp
Milo has fans because he is critical of things that a lot of people are fed up with - feminism, social justice, identity politics, PC culture, etc. Him being gay probably turns off a lot of the older conservative segment, but it makes no difference to libertarians or voluntaryists who I would wager make up a larger portion of his fan base than people realize.
Quote from: FTMax on July 31, 2017, 08:16:02 PM
Milo has fans because he is critical of things that a lot of people are fed up with - feminism, social justice, identity politics, PC culture, etc. Him being gay probably turns off a lot of the older conservative segment, but it makes no difference to libertarians or voluntaryists who I would wager make up a larger portion of his fan base than people realize.
I suppose. But I am unsure why some of those things are unpopular. Feminism is good and has contributed a lot. However, PC culture and social justice warriors are very annoying. That i do get. Social justice itself is a good thing.
I still find it pathetic that Milo has the time of day.
He's just someone who developed a sort of caricature, a cartoon personality version of themselves, to appeal to a specific audience. It worked, and he wallows in the adoration. There's an old San Francisco herbalist that tried insult comedy, and developed a caricature of themselves that became a national radio host and darling of a political faction, and Milo is following very much in their footsteps. It's funny what people find interesting.
Don't pay him any attention, and he'll wither from adoration deprivation.
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on July 31, 2017, 08:54:29 PM
Quote from: FTMax on July 31, 2017, 08:16:02 PM
Milo has fans because he is critical of things that a lot of people are fed up with - feminism, social justice, identity politics, PC culture, etc. Him being gay probably turns off a lot of the older conservative segment, but it makes no difference to libertarians or voluntaryists who I would wager make up a larger portion of his fan base than people realize.
I suppose. But I am unsure why some of those things are unpopular. Feminism is good and has contributed a lot. However, PC culture and social justice warriors are very annoying. That i do get. Social justice itself is a good thing.
I still find it pathetic that Milo has the time of day.
Not everyone would agree with you on your assessment of any of those things. Just because you think something is good doesn't mean it's viewed that way by everyone.
And unless I'm mistaken and he's done something new recently, Milo's fame fell considerably several months ago. I know he still has many fans hanging on but not the same as before his comments on pedophilia. He also has less reach since resigning from Breitbart.
Quote from: FTMax on August 01, 2017, 04:42:19 AM
I suppose. But I am unsure why some of those things are unpopular. Feminism is good and has contributed a lot. However, PC culture and social justice warriors are very annoying. That i do get. Social justice itself is a good thing.
I still find it pathetic that Milo has the time of day.
Not everyone would agree with you on your assessment of any of those things. Just because you think something is good doesn't mean it's viewed that way by everyone.
And unless I'm mistaken and he's done something new recently, Milo's fame fell considerably several months ago. I know he still has many fans hanging on but not the same as before his comments on pedophilia. He also has less reach since resigning from Breitbart.
That you are right. But i will never understand how some of those things are wrong or unpopular. Milo is out from Breitbart but he is still very popular with his base. And that base is not small as much as most would like to think it is. I still see his followers who will defend his Pedophillia remarks and justify them but instantly label a gay person or trans person wishing to merley use a bathroom with that label.
It makes me wonder if a large portion of his fan base is more consumed with hating ''the others'' then actually standing on values.
My example. Milo can talk talk about pedophillia and Josh Duggar can actually commit that same act (which yes, he did). And their followers on the far far right will defend them, or justify their actions. Yet, if a transwoman wants to use the bathroom they will label her a pervert and even sexual predator. My point is, Milos fan base and similar circles will go into full fledge denial of a real sick act happening or being promoted and will swing hard in their defense. However, in regards to a MtF woman using the bathroom they will go into extreme paranoia that something 'could' happen.
Im just saying, it is that whole mind set that bothers me, the we can do no bad but 'they' are always bad
See, atleast in Ben Carsons case I think he is a bit of a.. well, intresting fellow. But atleast he has contributed some good to the world and has helped people move on and live their lives by giving them proper and good DR care.
So as much as i disagree with him, and think he is promoting a dangerous ideology he has done something good for the world.
Milo, has only got his fame and money from hurting other people and tearing down peoples reputation and lives. He is one of the worst types of people there are.
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on July 31, 2017, 02:35:20 PM
There is this guy named Milo, who attacks the trans community left right and center. He also attacks other religions and ect. But he is, or he acts very flambouyently gay.
I think Milo is best understood as a marketing exercise. He did some research and guessed that there would be a marketing niche in US culture for a flamboyantly gay neo-fascist who trashes trans people, people of color, Muslims, etc. For a year or so Milo seemed to be everywhere, relentlessly promoting himself, insulting people, chasing the media coverage.
One of Milo's favorite gigs (he did it a number of times) was to schedule a speaking event on a university campus where he was sure to draw lots of outrage. To make sure he got plenty of media exposure, he would do some research to identify and out some trans student at the school. When students protested his speech or petitioned to have him banned from campus, Milo would run to the right-wing press crying about how his free-speech rights were being violated.
As time went by, Milo had to keep ramping up his offensiveness to keep getting the media exposure he wanted. Ultimately, he came out essentially in favor of pedophilia, and that was the beginning of the end. Even the right-wing media folks like Breitbart, who loved to use him to trash trans people and Muslims, cut him loose. Milo sank like a stone. Now he'll have to work out a new plan and reinvent himself some other way to get on with his "career" as a media celebrity.
He is just another person profiting off popular right wing arguments. There is a market for them, quite a few of them on youtube. Funnily enough some of those people live in the most progressive states in the US benifiting from progressive policies lol ::)
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on July 31, 2017, 08:54:29 PM
I suppose. But I am unsure why some of those things are unpopular. Feminism is good and has contributed a lot. However, PC culture and social justice warriors are very annoying. That i do get. Social justice itself is a good thing.
I still find it pathetic that Milo has the time of day.
Feminism is good to a point - however when it goes beyond equality and into "women need more rights/privileges than men" it loses its main selling point, and its support from egalitarians.
Over the last 5 or 6 years social justice has gone into overdrive and all I see as a result is division and anger. It was supposed to combat racism and inequality, and has in effect begun judging everything and everyone by their skin color or perceived level of "privilege", stratifying everything into a sort of class or caste system based on these things. I see more avid racism now as a result of it than 25 years ago before it burst onto the scene. And I'm not just talking about from whites who social justice blames for everything. In my view, social justice has failed to bring people together and it has failed to end racism and inequality, and stoked it instead. But what it has done has got everyone looking over their shoulders for some perceived oppression or other from someone or other. It's going to come to a violent head soon, I think.
Milo was a PR frontman, of sorts, and he's not that good at it. The right like Milo for confirmation bias and his opposition to social justice, feminism, etc. which they also tend to oppose. Milo does thrive on saying "outrageous" things and being trollish and "offensive". But it works - he got your attention, didn't he?
And that's basically all there is to his public persona.
I have learned the Right Wing will do anything for attention. Like a Kardashian.
There's things I liked about what he did and things I don't. His position on trans people is the same as Ben Shapiro and Cathy Brennans and her ilk, but on the other hand he brought alot of attention to how university culture in America has become divorced from reality, that it's become a radicalized, irrational culture of violent mass hysteria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PSYPrE5LrQ
Quote from: JMJW on September 10, 2017, 03:55:53 AM
There's things I liked about what he did and things I don't. His position on trans people is the same as Ben Shapiro and Cathy Brennans and her ilk, but on the other hand he brought alot of attention to how university culture in America has become divorced from reality, that it's become a radicalized, irrational culture of violent mass hysteria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PSYPrE5LrQ
I havent watched the video, and personally as people I will admit I have nothing good to say about the three you mentioned. Brennan especially as not only does she troll trans people, she doxes them. Even kids.
That said I agree to a point about universities and such. It is important not to import hate , especially hateful thinking that has been proven to based on feelings (Icky, trans people exp) rather then science that we are born in the wrong body. Still, many univierities have become a more left wing-echo chamber and in some cases this enviroment which was meant to protect people from harm has turned into everyone getting a victim mentality.
Example, back around February there was a post about some guy and ebola and Africa. Now since I last looked it up the ebola crisis is mute and over (or so they say) . Still I had said on that fb post that Africa is sadly known to carry a lot of diseases. Mainly because of lack of money they have, lack of support many places get and in addition whatever support a first world country give many governments there are corrupt to it may not get to the people. Also, Africa is actually quite tropical or sub tropical and that type of enviroment also invites many diseases. I would go on to explain how unfortunate that is and brain storm how things could get better. Of course by the SJW's I was a racist for ''only targeting Africa'' and being lectured about how large Africa was, one girl told me I had low-key racism.
So yes, I do believe that we have in a way taken feelings too far from where we respect someone who has a legit reason to feel hurt or upset all the way to people finding reasons to be hurt and upset.
The moment you don't agree precisely with some of those ^ people, the moment you too will be branded an enemy. Whether you're trans or not. They only have room for those who tow their line, not free thinkers. So beware of them.
As someone who tends towards (lowercase "l", as in not literally the party of that name) libertarian-ism (I prefer classical liberalism label, but that just confuses most people) and despises the two-party system, I tend to say that people like Milo are simply opportunists who have warped true libertarian ideals into a internet flame war. He plays to a few legitimate issues, then twists them up in order to build his support. (Which is the case for every political commentator or politician, ever.)
Going back to the the original progressive movements in the late 1800s and early 1900s, there was a strong need for much of the work that was done. This continued through the 1900s, the civil rights eras, and so forth. The armchair political scientist that I am, I believe the problem we see today really took hold though when progressive ideologies failed to do some basic rebranding. Viktor hit the nail on the head with what he said about Feminism as a prime example. The name alone is a big part of the problem, feminism, as it makes people think not of equal rights (the most mainstream definition of modern feminism), but of additional rights for women specifically as it outright has the fem- prefix at all. And in politics, it doesn't matter what is true or not, what matters is the perception. And the perception isn't great. When combined with the usual radicals, political correctness, and youtube SJWs (who are often massive hypocrites), this just created the breeding ground for a backlash that fed the growth of the alt-right. Well, Milo and his ilk saw this, and instead of trying to moderate the tone of the radicals on both sides, just played to the other side of the radical equation with an audience that liked the fact they could say "We're not homophobic, one of our spokesmen is gay!"
Of course, meanwhile the Milos on the progressive side do the same thing, and playing to their own base they in turn play into the talking points of the alt-right Milos creating a feedback loop that never ends. The clearest example goes back to the feminism issue, with the women make 78% of what men make statistic. The problem being that while an income (not technically wage) gap definitely exists, it does not translate into women making 78% of what men do for the exact same work, at the exact same hours, at the exact same job. (Instead that number hinges a lot on issues such as imbalances in women in high paying positions such as corporate executives, jobs with hazard pay, women working less hours, and so forth, and was never intended to be a statement of less pay for equal work.) So the Milos take this simple truth, twist it back around into an attack on men, which riles his base. The riled up men come across as sexist idiots for daring to say no to equal pay (which is a terrible thing to look like you're saying no to), creating even more misperception, more talking points for the other side, and so on and so on ping ponging back and forth until no one says an ounce of truth at all anymore because their responses are falsehoods in response to a falsehood which itself was in response to a falsehood.
That's why I voted for Jimmy McMillan, he's a karate master and will lower the rent. (Just to be clear, this was a joke. I absolutely did not vote for the crazy man no matter how awesome he is. :D) Mostly I'm just bored during hurricane downtime and wanted to hear myself talk. Or... well... read myself type?
Addendum: I should clarify my point, I went off on a bit of a tangent I think. Basically, I'm just saying be careful not to dismiss a few of the root issues that may actually be valid, even if they are championed by a madman. The key is to address the valid points from all sides of an argument while filtering out the noise. Easier said than done, of course. Milo is a terrible messenger, but he isn't 100% wrong. Just... you know, 98% wrong. The best way to deal with anyone like that though is address the 2% in a thoughtful manner, and suddenly the 98% has no leg to stand on.
Milo is a comedian. he takes serious issues and makes them funny but above all else he challenges people too. Not for his own amusement but he asks some pretty serious questions.
OK for one. Should a political party own us because we are LGBT? Or should we belong to a particular political party because we share their views. I am total Libertarian. I think adults should decide what they want to do on their own without the government deciding for them. If I choose to not have healthcare should I pay a tax? No. I just have to live with the consequences and I will. I think this is the point Milo tries to make. There are Log Cabin Republicans which is an LGBT arm of the Republican Party. I like the Bill of Rights because I have a CCW and packing in the purse makes me feel safe in bad areas and I may be a soft target. But I do like shooting too.
When it comes to LGBT there is no one size fits all, we are all as unique as anyone else. So when it come to Milo, I think this is the main point he is trying to put across. If we let something so minor as politics divide us then what else will divide us? I grew up different. I grew up in a rural area as a "girl" but a girl with a little extra and it took a special boyfriend to date me. I could not be a boy and had to change schools after puberty. I couldn't take gym class and wouldn't want to anyway. But I really think Milo is trying to put across that we are individuals as such instead of a political views. And he makes if funny.
I agree that being LGBT we should NOT be beholded to a single ideology or political party. Often on this form and others you will see a couple people bash conservatism for all our ills when that is a broad brush. Much like being transgender, conservatism finds itself on a long spectrum. It may suprise people to know that I hold a few (and just a few) conservative ideas. I think that your background should not define your role in society or political beliefs. When I hear of a gay or trans conservative I sometimes find myself being in that boat of not agreeing with them all the time, but at the same time seeing it as somewhat of a breath of fresh air from the normal far left SJW echo chamber I have seen in which I doubt many of those people are expressing real opinions but just repeating to be part of the ''group''.
Thats being said if I had been an American I would likely vote Democrat 85% of the time. I'm sorry and I may even get smitted or what not but I find that the national GOP's platform is very much pandering to votes at our expense. Whereas the national Democrats by and large have been fighting for us hard. At a state level , depending on certain states if I were to live in one I could swing between the two parties. For what it is worth over the few things I do know I can say I do like Republican Governor Charlie Baker of Massachusetts and Phil Scott of Vermont seem to be reasonable and sound. I havent been keeping up with the Governor from Illinois but when I last read about him years ago (a Republican) he seemed ok. I could very well support them. Even though I find myself disagreeing with Senators John McCain and Lisa Murkowski at times I do repsect them both and could, if conditions were right support them.Same with Susan Collins.
Often when I rant or express my feelings, at least on American politics people think I would make a partisan Democrat when that isnt true at all and in fact, I wouldn't want to be. Infact had I been an American I would love to be able to freely vote for either party over certian issues of the day that affect me without worry of one party expecting I support them because its now a ''duty'' and the other trying to paint me with a bad brush to juice up their base. Issue is with the exception of some Governorship and maybe the odd Senate seat there is a staunch divide on making an election issue out of us which needs to be called out. Not to shine the Democrats as better but to express that we are real people and one day, hopefully soon have both parties in that country see us as equals.
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on September 27, 2017, 05:59:00 PM
I agree that being LGBT we should NOT be beholded to a single ideology or political party.
Adhering to an ideology that seeks to deny us equality under the law doesn't make any rational sense. By the process of elimination that leaves exactly one choice, unless of course one wants their vote to mean absolutely nothing.
See, that was easy.
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Quote from: Deborah on September 27, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Adhering to an ideology that seeks to deny us equality under the law doesn't make any rational sense. By the process of elimination that leaves exactly one choice, unless of course one wants their vote to mean absolutely nothing.
See, that was easy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is not only nothing, it is moving us backwards. We should all vote in our self-interests. Vote for what is best for us individually. Whether it be taxes, schools or war. It should be self-interests. Unfortunately, it has become jingoism, propaganda and manipulation of us vs them. Th less-informed have bought hook,line and sinker the conservative world view of low wages, no taxes, more war as the only way. And thus we have our present administration.
He's basically a gay-male version of Lisa Lampanelli who somehow got swept into leading the extremist end of free-speech - which is critical because he is a quintessential troll, and even people who think gays should be burned at the stake still agree with what he wants: to get the blaze burning as bright and high as possible.
With the collapse of Milo's latest trolling expedition at UC Berkeley, it looks like his career is finally caving in. Milo is exposed for the sideshow clown he always was, and public attention has moved on. His fifteen minutes of fame are OVER.
The Rise and Fall of Milo Yiannopoulos
by Anthony L. Fisher
The Week
September 28, 2017
http://theweek.com/articles/726932/rise-fall-milo-yiannopoulos
"Milo Yiannopolous used to be dangerous, a force of nature capable of whipping both the left and right into a frenzy of outrage. Today, he is a washed-up performance artist with an increasing inability to trade in his primary commodity: shock.
"Following the anti-climactic collapse of an event that Milo (who I'll refer to as such for your convenience and mine) spent months promoting as "Free Speech Week" at UC Berkeley, all the fuss made over him by supporters and detractors alike now feels like an incredible waste of energy. . . ."
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on September 27, 2017, 05:59:00 PM
I agree that being LGBT we should NOT be beholded to a single ideology or political party. Often on this form and others you will see a couple people bash conservatism for all our ills when that is a broad brush. Much like being transgender, conservatism finds itself on a long spectrum. It may suprise people to know that I hold a few (and just a few) conservative ideas. I think that your background should not define your role in society or political beliefs. When I hear of a gay or trans conservative I sometimes find myself being in that boat of not agreeing with them all the time, but at the same time seeing it as somewhat of a breath of fresh air from the normal far left SJW echo chamber I have seen in which I doubt many of those people are expressing real opinions but just repeating to be part of the ''group''.
Thats being said if I had been an American I would likely vote Democrat 85% of the time. I'm sorry and I may even get smitted or what not but I find that the national GOP's platform is very much pandering to votes at our expense. Whereas the national Democrats by and large have been fighting for us hard. At a state level , depending on certain states if I were to live in one I could swing between the two parties. For what it is worth over the few things I do know I can say I do like Republican Governor Charlie Baker of Massachusetts and Phil Scott of Vermont seem to be reasonable and sound. I havent been keeping up with the Governor from Illinois but when I last read about him years ago (a Republican) he seemed ok. I could very well support them. Even though I find myself disagreeing with Senators John McCain and Lisa Murkowski at times I do repsect them both and could, if conditions were right support them.Same with Susan Collins.
Often when I rant or express my feelings, at least on American politics people think I would make a partisan Democrat when that isnt true at all and in fact, I wouldn't want to be. Infact had I been an American I would love to be able to freely vote for either party over certian issues of the day that affect me without worry of one party expecting I support them because its now a ''duty'' and the other trying to paint me with a bad brush to juice up their base. Issue is with the exception of some Governorship and maybe the odd Senate seat there is a staunch divide on making an election issue out of us which needs to be called out. Not to shine the Democrats as better but to express that we are real people and one day, hopefully soon have both parties in that country see us as equals.
Never apologize for your beliefs. I am a Log Cabin Republican but a registered Independent and feel really good having my Second Amendment Rights. But in actuality I am a Libertarian. I actually voted for Bill Clinton twice. Voting is a right and you should vote not by how anyone tells you but the candidate that you think will do the best job for your interests.
I am trans and big deal but one party will never own my vote. I can also make fun of myself too. Have you ever seen a redneck trans woman? Most people haven't yet I am one. I can actually laugh about it and even make others laugh. I think this is the whole idea of what Milo is doing.
To be completely honest I do not want or need friends that feel sorry for me and maybe because it is the in thing to do, be friends with the trans woman to seem.... Cosmopolitan? Accepting? I would rather have no friends than those type of friends.
I have friends in my own little world and they are friends with me not because I am trans but I am there for them in need and vice versa. We can joke and toke and sometimes they have some really legitimate questions about me. I am honest and compassionate in that they may not understand but I can't really understand being cis either. I am a straight trans woman, I like guys and one question I used to get asked is if I am Gay. My answer was always no. Then another question of how if I had a penis and my answer was that I experience relationships and love different and on a female level in the mind.
In short, people will respect you if you are honest and can even laugh at yourself. Those that can't laugh at themselves then I don't even want to be friends with. I go shopping with my cis female neighbors and my boyfriends wives and sometimes even co workers that are women and we do the women's things together and we have girl's nights. My BF does the same thing with my male neighbors and so on. We are always invited to each others homes and so on for whatever reasons. I did not need a politician for that. My boyfriend makes no excuses and he is accepted as a man and fishes and hunts with my neighbor's husbands. He has come home from deer camp and told me who asked him what and sometimes it is about being in a "relationship" with a transwoman. He always poses the question back and the answers are the same for both. Don't need a politician for that either. The answers are we bitch too much, complain while vacuuming the floors and when asked to get them something we tell them to get it themselves. I can laugh at that. I can also laugh at being terrified of thunderstorms and hurricanes.
But get out of that dear because both parties pander and neither one really cares for nothing other than your vote. Obama and Hillary both were against Same Sex Marriage until they needed votes. I remember when they stated it during Prop 8 in California about marriage being between one man and one woman.
But we are lucky in the United States because we have the Constitution and that is mostly about freedoms and pertains to everyone now. Yes Slavery was a hiccup but that was amended to where we all have the same rights. In the United States the Constitution is the law of the land, not whatever political party holds the majority. I have a CCW and I pack a .380 in my purse. For home I have a 9mm so I will vote politicians that will allow me to protect myself. And yes I have been profiled before just for having long hair and wearing no makeup and to be completely honest, and the cops should have known but they have been very respectful asking me how I preferred to be addressed. As a matter of fact my boyfriend now is a cop and we go to all the cop functions and parties. I get to go to the range for free anytime I want because I am his SO. And let me tell you something, with the way the world views cops now it scares me
>-bleeped-<less when he goes to work. I am his beneficiary on his life insurance and I can even be on his health insurance policy but choose not to be. So it really isn't a left or right deal, it is more of a people deal.
My boyfriend is a cop and when he goes to work I pray. I am not even a Christian but I pray. Most of his friends are cops to and they have asked his some really stupid questions but the single ones tell him if he ever leaves me I am fair game so... These are cops for Christ's sake and all supposed to be on the right yet they respect me as a woman and their wives and husbands do too and him for dating me?
So between our neighbors and he lives with me and his co workers I am accepted. I am not that beautiful or the most girly figured woman but my BF claims to love me for me and vice versa and I even smoke a little and one thing that I have learned is not to smoke and then drive or have a little too much on me if pulled over. Most cops smell pot a lot but don't say boo about it unless you have a bad attitude.
As for my boyfriend, I don't care who he votes for, I just want him to come home at the end of his shift or well I work from home so I am always here mostly. Look Cops wear blue but they also encompass the "rainbow". Out of 20 three are L and two are G and one is even T with cross dressing. My boyfriend don't know that though and I would never tell. But I still want him to come home safe though.
So don't be fooled by politicians because politics should not be an issue in your life, your life should so vote your conscience. You will never get smited by me. I love my boyfriend well... think I do anyway or feel I do and he don't even know how I voted.
Jesus, I talk too much. But anyways ;)
Quote from: Deborah on September 27, 2017, 11:21:16 PM
Adhering to an ideology that seeks to deny us equality under the law doesn't make any rational sense. By the process of elimination that leaves exactly one choice, unless of course one wants their vote to mean absolutely nothing.
See, that was easy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting. you seemed to reply to one part of the reply I made. You obviously didnt read all of it. Also, you may want to brush on on all your history. It wasnt too long ago and in fact in some countries still the (normally far) left will call LGBT a right wing capitalist diesease. I get your point, but the fact that you made a very lazy reply to a small part of my post (as I am a lefty myself, but I dont have rose coloured glasses) kinda makes me shake my head. I have some reading material that is unbias in nature about this if you wish to learn more.
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on September 28, 2017, 05:45:53 PM
Interesting. you seemed to reply to one part of the reply I made. You obviously didnt read all of it. Also, you may want to brush on on all your history. It wasnt too long ago and in fact in some countries still the (normally far) left will call LGBT a right wing capitalist diesease. I get your point, but the fact that you made a very lazy reply to a small part of my post (as I am a lefty myself, but I dont have rose coloured glasses) kinda makes me shake my head. I have some reading material that is unbias in nature about this if you wish to learn more.
What the left wing in some other country does or doesn't do is totally irrelevant to what's happening here. What the left and right said or did at some time in the past is also totally irrelevant to what's happening today. The fact is that today the right wing Republican Party is trying their best to deny us equal treatment under the law. As for their economic policies they have failed time after time over the past 40 years. Their claims of small government are a lie for the naive to believe as the right wing expands government and debt at a faster pace than the left. To top it all off there is a significant portion of that political class that lives in some fantasy world where scientific fact is ignored in favor of Bronze Age mythologies and white supremacy is going to save the world.
As a former Republican myself I can fervently attest that the one and only thing that our Republican Party is consistently good at doing is lying to our faces and stabbing us in the back as they destroy the middle class to enrich their billionaire paymasters.
No, I don't need any lessons. I have been living this system since I voted the first time in 1980.
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Quote from: Deborah on September 28, 2017, 06:16:19 PM
What the left wing in some other country does or doesn't do is totally irrelevant to what's happening here. What the left and right said or did at some time in the past is also totally irrelevant to what's happening today. The fact is that today the right wing Republican Party is trying their best to deny us equal treatment under the law. As for their economic policies they have failed time after time over the past 40 years. Their claims of small government are a lie for the naive to believe as the right wing expands government and debt at a faster pace than the left. To top it all off there is a significant portion of that political class that lives in some fantasy world where scientific fact is ignored in favor of Bronze Age mythologies and white supremacy is going to save the world.
As a former Republican myself I can fervently attest that the one and only thing that our Republican Party is consistently good at doing is lying to our faces and stabbing us in the back as they destroy the middle class to enrich their billionaire paymasters.
No, I don't need any lessons. I have been living this system since I voted the first time in 1980.
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Again, you just proved you read nothing more then what you wanted to. You will notice I said that conservatisim is a spectrum. And that in most of the country, your country the worst part of the right is being the de facto head of the GOP, but not totally. If you bothered to read beyond what you wanted to you would have saw that I said I can understand why people have different beliefs ( because not all conservatives are bigotted as you say), but I still have a hard time seeing how one could vote GOP outside of a few states who are members of the trans community due to national party and members making an election issue out of us. It isnt universal though, but it shamefully happens. Again, please read before you type!
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on September 28, 2017, 06:38:31 PM
Again, you just proved you read nothing more then what you wanted to. You will notice I said that conservatisim is a spectrum. And that in most of the country, your country the worst part of the right is being the de facto head of the GOP, but not totally. If you bothered to read beyond what you wanted to you would have saw that I said I can understand why people have different beliefs ( because not all conservatives are bigotted as you say), but I still have a hard time seeing how one could vote GOP outside of a few states who are members of the trans community due to national party and members making an election issue out of us. It isnt universal though, but it shamefully happens. Again, please read before you type!
Ok. Then I apologize for not understanding. However, while all conservatives may not personally think or say they are bigots all conservative voters participate in furthering entirely bigoted and failing policies. By their participation they signal their agreement.
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Quote from: Deborah on September 28, 2017, 07:28:53 PM
Ok. Then I apologize for not understanding. However, while all conservatives may not personally think or say they are bigots all conservative voters participate in furthering entirely bigoted and failing policies. By their participation they signal their agreement.
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It is all good, it happens. I may have been to rough around the edges so my bad (happens when I am getting into it). But yes, I am not an American so I dont personally experience what you do. Though I am much more left then right I still live in a country (Canada) that largely sees things like going to the bathroom as human rights issues that no one makes a scene about, not a moral stand that can make an election. Truth be told I rather a lefty but where I currently live, Ontario, the idea of the Conservatives winning the next provical election is far from scary as the Conservative leader and truth be told, likely new Premier Patrick Brown has now actually agresssively been trying to push for the Conservatives to not only be more inclusive, but strongly supports LGBTQ rights. Granted, I am more likely atm to vote NDP or Liberal at the federal level but if were still here in Ontario for the provincial election next year I would atleast give Brown a strong look and be open.
Sadly, many on the right in America actually try using basic human rights like going to the bathroom into an election issue and hurt us in the process. Make no mistake, with the excpetion of being open to supporting a
few Republicans who are more moderate/not far right like Charlie Baker, Phil Scott or Susan Collins I would have no other choice but to be a Democrat. And as 2017 would be a Democratic Party supporter with no shame. I do hope one day that would change as I would hate to be in the position of only being able to vote for one party, but that would be because the other party (GOP) is putting me in no other position.
Again, much love. And even though we may have thrown our barbs I do respect your point of view and in some cases have an agreement, I still just hope that people make their own decisions and not just merely follow a ''wing''.
Quote from: Deborah on September 28, 2017, 06:16:19 PM
What the left wing in some other country does or doesn't do is totally irrelevant to what's happening here. What the left and right said or did at some time in the past is also totally irrelevant to what's happening today. The fact is that today the right wing Republican Party is trying their best to deny us equal treatment under the law. As for their economic policies they have failed time after time over the past 40 years. Their claims of small government are a lie for the naive to believe as the right wing expands government and debt at a faster pace than the left. To top it all off there is a significant portion of that political class that lives in some fantasy world where scientific fact is ignored in favor of Bronze Age mythologies and white supremacy is going to save the world.
As a former Republican myself I can fervently attest that the one and only thing that our Republican Party is consistently good at doing is lying to our faces and stabbing us in the back as they destroy the middle class to enrich their billionaire paymasters.
No, I don't need any lessons. I have been living this system since I voted the first time in 1980.
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I agree with you but we did not vote totally right or left this time. Any political party has the knife totally ready and that does include the left too.
Quote from: Jenntrans on September 29, 2017, 06:48:40 PM
I agree with you but we did not vote totally right or left this time. Any political party has the knife totally ready and that does include the left too.
I agree that both sides leave much to be desired. So that gets back to my original point. If I have a choice of two bad parties where one wants to guarantee my rights and the other wants to outlaw my existence then the choice becomes very easy.
And I do mean outlaw our existence. The State of Alabama is running a Republican senate candidate right now that explicitly said we should be made illegal.
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Quote from: itsApril on August 01, 2017, 07:24:18 PM
Ultimately, he came out essentially in favor of pedophilia, and that was the beginning of the end.
Just to point out a technicality, he was talking about pederasty on that podcast, not pedophilia.
That being said, Milo is entertaining. It is interesting to watch a bunch of people on the right cheering a flamboyant gay man in drag.
Milo speaks to a particular subgroup of people, largely my age and culture group. To be honest, quite a bit of his shtick did resonate with me a long time ago when he started. I was a victim of the family courts and American justice system in relation to my ex and my son. I had a potential career path stomped on by a very anti-male feminist lady (who forcibly dressed her son as a girl because she hated men so much) who was a sort gatekeeper in the English department at Uni. Much of his complaints against what feminism has become and our current cultural issue did resonate with me pretty hard.
Then he started bringing in the anti-trans thing into it, and I lost interest. The same thing happened with Ben Shapiro too, both of them aren't terribly educated on the subject; but that's not what they're trying to do. They have a particular dog in the fight: Milo because offensiveness is his capital, and Shapiro because he's a religious conservative and operates largely on Divine Law and Natural Law Theory (both of which don't work well).
They're perfectly fine to listen to, so long as they don't touch the trans topic. They likely won't ever be able to accept the most up to date information anyway. In Milo's case because it would be economic suicide. In Shapiro's case because it would blow out one of the fundamental axioms that formulates his worldview/ideology.
Milo's ultimate goal isn't to insult anyone really. If you listen to the people who know him personally, his character and person don't sync up well. As someone said, this is an act and everything we see is proximal to his true Ultimate desire: fame, money, and notoriety. Gay liberal pro-progressive men are a dime a dozen. He wouldn't have gotten anywhere toeing the party line. Going off grid though, as we've seen, nets the big bucks.
Quote from: Deborah on September 29, 2017, 06:54:30 PM
I agree that both sides leave much to be desired. So that gets back to my original point. If I have a choice of two bad parties where one wants to guarantee my rights and the other wants to outlaw my existence then the choice becomes very easy.
And I do mean outlaw our existence. The State of Alabama is running a Republican senate candidate right now that explicitly said we should be made illegal.
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...In addition to that he said the 9/11 was basically our fault. Sadly, since Alabama is so right wing he may very well win. I mean at his speech he decided to wear his cow-boy attire and fling around a little gun. As a non-American lemme tell you that is not normal and
should worry the more well adjusted people. It is disturbing behavior. It is equally concerning that the worst forms of the right and not the live and let live types on that spectrum, are being impowered. In 2007, the idea of Donald Trump being President then both Kid Rock and a ''Judge'' with bad judgement being elected to the Senate would be something that would be laughed hysterically at. Today, it is happening...
Quote from: Deborah on September 29, 2017, 06:54:30 PM
I agree that both sides leave much to be desired. So that gets back to my original point. If I have a choice of two bad parties where one wants to guarantee my rights and the other wants to outlaw my existence then the choice becomes very easy.
And I do mean outlaw our existence. The State of Alabama is running a Republican senate candidate right now that explicitly said we should be made illegal.
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That is wrong. We may should be made illegal but it will never happen. I have never heard anyone say that and I watch Fox News. The Constitution guarantees us, Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. It can not be changed by either party. We have to right to Life. We exist because we have the right and those that may not agree with it are not within the confines of the US Constitution. We have the right to Liberty and that is living our lives how we want. Any party that goes against that is not within the confines of the US Constitution. Our own Pursuit of Happiness is just that, we pursue what will make us happy in life with the liberty to live it. This is what the Supreme Court took into account when they decided Same Sex Marriage was a right. I still think Marriage is for big business though. But some seem to like it and I do remember when Obama and Hillary stated that marriage was between on man and one woman. But don't take my word for it, look it up. I may be wrong but I am not though. They both were against it before they were for it.
Does anyone know how many LGBT republicans there are? I don't but can guess and I would guess that there are more LGBT republicans than democrats. I mean we have a whole separate group called the Log Cabin Republicans and I don't see the equivilant coming out of the Democratic party. Does the democratic party need it? Probably not because a lot of people believe in the LGBT community they are for them. They are not. A leopard does not change it's spots just to eat and politicians to not change their mentality but only their stance and all we are to them are votes.
What if Bill Clinton through his Governance of Arkansas and through his presidency had a trans girlfriend? How would Hillary feel?
Do some home work. Researching a candidate is hard and may take you places you don't want to go but all the "mudslinging" and "yellow journalism" do not take as fact. Make your own mind up. We live in an age now and in about 30 minutes you can find out everything you need to know about whatever candidate you want to know. Don't let any media, adds or anything else decide your vote.
Look at it like this, how many LGBTs, Ts especially does the Clinton Foundation hire? How many LGBTs does the Trump corporations hire and even the Ts? I know somewhat but how you vote is not for me to try and persuade.
Personally I am a Libertarian like Milo. The left hates him because he is on the right and they will do anything to delegitimize him so anything he says will be twisted. He is gay so some on the right will try to twist anything he says too. Milo is just like all of us cis or trans, he is Libertarian and with one party hates Libertarians.
Hey I am a country girl. I hate country music and prefer metal but I like to shoot but don't hunt. My BF does and I will cook what he kills and eat it too as long as I don't have to. Most of our friends are not left or right but dead center and that is pretty much Libertarian.
So what is the politician for senates name? If you see it in a political add then that is mudslinging and probably not true. But remember, Obama and Hillary were against same sex marriage before they were for it and that you can look up from 2004.
To the poster above yes, Judge Roy Moore has said these things. I have said frequently that it is important for all people, including trans people to look at the whole political spectrum. However as i have said the Democratic Party as of October 3rd 2017 is the only party I could support if I were an American. In addition to having candidates from the opposing party scape-goat us for votes I personally think the the GOP lately has been so keen to be the opposite of the Democrats on broad issues that it is holding you guys back. For one a large majority of Democrats think the common sense approach such as universal health care, regulated environment, get the free market out of health care, the justice system (for profit prisons) and to have reasonable taxes on those who can afford to pay them. Not to tax people to death of course but if you are making over 250 grand a year, you can afford at least a slight increase.
See these are common sense things that everyone can agree on (well, not so much about taxes that will always be something the left and right will fight about, but I can understand the other point of view even if I disagree). The environment was never a right/left divided until later when Democrats championed the environment and of course Reagan says that a tree is a tree how many do we need to look at, which was enough for his base to scrap green ideas that even Nixon and Goldwater agreed upon. In Canada one of our most libertarian and conservative leaders named Preston Manning agreed the environment matters and has wrote on how best to handle it with green conservatism. Today, in the GOP Senate you have James Inhofe throwing snow balls to some how disprove us. My beef isnt right/left, but when it comes to the US yes I go for the Democrats. The GOP in my opinion just wishes to be the opposite of the Democrats so much so that instead of coming up with ideas that could very well even be better then the Democrats when it comes to important issues (health care, ect) they pretend there is no issues whatsoever and when they make a bill it is basically just to go back to how things were long ago. In other words not helping the situation.
Another beef I have with this overly objection ideology came last year when Obama nominated a superb Judge who is neither a liberal or a conservative die hard (as it should be when it comes to the courts). That judge was named Merrick Garland, a superb guy who would have been a great fit for the SCOTUS. However, even though Republican Senator Orrin Hatch had some said that Garland should be nominated in a round about way (March 2016), Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell said well well before Judge Antonin Scallia went cold after his death that Obama will not be allowed to fill the vacancy, infact the Senate under McConnell wouldnt even look at an Obama nominee. Not even a single vote for or against, just a childish game of ''I dont want to''. Then, as this childish game went on in the fall McConnell had said that even if Hillary won he wouldnt have a vote on Garland during the lame duck session and basically Hillary would have to re-nominate her during the next session of the Congress or his nomination would be gone forever. Even though he bell ached that ''the next President will decied'', which Hillary probably would have kept Garland, McConnell still refused.
Sorry but for me that is a huge issue. Its one thing to look at a nominee and then vote accordingly to your beliefs but the whole promotion assassination of Garland was pure politicking just to troll Obama. Plain and Simple. Instead of having Garland who was a judicial moderate, we now have a more conservative activist on the court. Again, debate the issues and how to best deal with them, not pretend they don't exist or sabotage others for gain. The Democrats are guilty too, but from my view over many years (which is one of many things to make me go from staunch Republican to leaning Democrat) they are guilty at a far lesser degree.
Quote from: Jenntrans on October 02, 2017, 05:14:26 PM
That is wrong. We may should be made illegal but it will never happen. I have never heard anyone say that and I watch Fox News.
* * *
Do some home work. Researching a candidate is hard and may take you places you don't want to go but all the "mudslinging" and "yellow journalism" do not take as fact. Make your own mind up. We live in an age now and in about 30 minutes you can find out everything you need to know about whatever candidate you want to know. Don't let any media, adds or anything else decide your vote.
* * *
So what is the politician for senates name?
The candidate people were discussing is Roy Moore, running as a Republican for the open US Senate seat in Alabama. Jenntrans is correct in saying that mudslinging in politics can make it difficult to separate what a politician really stands for from false mischaracterizations spread by political opponents. As Jenntrans suggests, we should investigate for ourselves.
I did exactly that with Roy Moore. Here is a link to a 2005 CSPAN interview in which Judge Moore forthrightly advocates that homosexual conduct should be made illegal:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4682986/roy-moore-2005-bill-press
Listen for yourselves. Nobody is putting words in Judge Moore's mouth. That's his position, and he wants the votes of Alabamans to put him in the US Senate.
Jenntrans suggests that with the information resources we all have at our disposal, it should only take about 30 minutes to find out all you need to know. This didn't take thirty minutes. It only took about five minutes to get straight to the horse's mouth. (Or whatever other part of the horse's anatomy is relevant.)
OK so it is Roy Moore and he won. But we do have a little thing called the Constitution. We have also had the Supreme Court that said same sex marriage was constitutional. Am I the only one that remembers when Obama and Hillary both weighed in saying that Marriage was for one man and one woman?
So all the BS aside, people do change their stances on things. Obama and Hillary stated their stance on same sex marriage in I believe 2004, this interview was in 2005. To be totally honest and if I lived in Alabama, I could care less if he thought I was a sinner or destined to hell or whatever. He is only one senator. Seems everyone hates Trump but maybe Trump was pushing for Strange instead of Moore for a reason and this may be why. Just a little something to think about.
You know. I have drove trucks most of my life but not the crap that usually comes out of the back of the trailers but Slot Machines, Commercial Furniture and so on. High dollar stuff and not Jogging shoes and underwear or canned goods. But I have delivered some stuff to Trump Properties and Trump Casinos before and I got treated very well even as a trans truck driver and always with respect. I delivered to a Hilton just outside of Atlantic City and busted my butt to get there and all I wanted was to sleep. 300 dollars a night for a room. I have delivered either slots or hotel furniture to a Casino/Hotel that was part of Trump's businesses then a 300 dollar room was comparable to a Motel 6 room in price because I got the stuff there trans and all and I was tired. 50 dollars for a three hundred dollar hotel room? It wasn't just me or whoever was taking the stuff off the trailer because everyone wanted those loads. I pulled a lot of slot machines and high end furniture. You would back you trailer to the dock and get a 30 dollar coupon for the restaurant. If you wanted a room then you tell whoever was in charge on the dock to call the desk with your name and you would get one hell of a discount. Dispatch hated these runs because it was a given that the driver would take the rest of the day off and call in at 8 the next morning.
But maybe Trump was pushing Strange for a reason. I think this interview and Moore's views against LGBTs are why.
Quote from: Jenntrans on October 03, 2017, 05:09:50 PM
High dollar stuff and not Jogging shoes and underwear or canned goods.
Hey, all three of those things are super important! I have nothing to add to the political debate, I just wanted to defend the good name of jogging shoes, underwear, and canned goods! :D
Quote from: Roll on October 03, 2017, 05:27:07 PM
Hey, all three of those things are super important! I have nothing to add to the political debate, I just wanted to defend the good name of jogging shoes, underwear, and canned goods! :D
LOL we all need shoes and undies but that is not where the money is with trucking though. :o
The big money is what I did, specialized and I still own truck that are leased to oilfield companies and a couple that is dedicated under my own authority to pull high, heavy and wide. General freight is about $1.30 per mile without a fuel surcharge but my two make an average of $12.00 per mile. Which after the expenses, permits, escorts and so on clears me about $3.00 per mile. The Oilfield usually clears me about $1.00 per mile This is after fuel, truck payments, driver pay, insurance, taxes, upkeep and so on. I love shoes and undies but I sure ain't going to pull them from point a to point b for $1.30 per mile. When the oilfield pays about $4 per mile and oversize $12 per mile.
But I do need my panties and thank god for the drivers that do get them to the store. ;)