I'm not sure if this topic has been discussed before but here goes.
I recently posted to one of the forums and unwitingly used a label that on reflection was not totaly appropriate. Now being trans (another label) we face this everyday, some a generic and seem harmless, others can be nasty or percieved as nasty if used the wrong way.
What do you think - is there a label that gets under your skin ??? - it doesn't have to relate to anything on this site just generally..
Mine is "The moral majority" - what makes them moral and evryone else not.
The use of the word
Quote"we"
I really dislike it when someone speaks for me and I have no inclusion or identity with that particular subject.
I don't like the term "open minded" because invariably most everyone that uses it thinks it means believing, or liking the same things that they do and that has absolutely nothing to do with being open minded.
:eusa_wall:
beth
"Mine is "The moral majority" - what makes them moral and evryone else not."
Greater Vocal Numbers and organization would be my guess.
yes, the Topic, well, if there were a word I hated most, it would be ">-bleeped-<". to me that creates an image of incompleteness and conflict. that doesn't have to be true, but it's how it affects me.
I dislike this term so much because at present I would fall under that label when it is used, making me half male, half female, a condition of absolute confusion to me and its part of the process I have to go through, meaning if the term is applied to me, it makes me uncomfortable with myself. I can accept most of the terms that have logic in applying to me, but ">-bleeped-<" is offensive to me and against everything I feel inside must be done for my own peace of mind.
Terri
Terri
Quote from: Leigh on June 29, 2005, 08:30:18 PM
The use of the word "We" I really dislike it when someone speaks for me and I have no inclusion or identity with that particular subject.
We doesn't have to include you unless you want it to. We indicates a group and inclusion in a group is generally voluntary. You are always free to say I disagree or to state your own opinion if it differs.
Quote from: Terri-Gene on June 30, 2005, 05:19:08 AM
"Mine is "The moral majority" - what makes them moral and evryone else not."
It's a trap for just that reason along with most of the other terms you see coming from the Bu
>-bleeped-<es. It's their attempt to smear people who would otherwise want to fight it. Oh you are for/against [insert term here] you bad person you. It is good advice if they call it one thing you should never use that term in response call it something different. Don't let them define the agenda don't let them establish their angle on the subject.
ACTIVIST JUDGE, n. A judge who attempts to protect the rights of minorities--most especially homosexuals--against the tyranny of the majority.
ALARMIST, n. Any respected scientist who understands the threat of global warming.
ALLIES, n. Foreigners who do what Republicans tell them to do.
ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES, n. New locations to drill for oil and gas.
BALANCED, adj. 1. favoring corporations (a more balanced approach to the environment.); 2. favoring conservatives (fair and balanced reporting).
BI-PARTISANSHIP, n. When conservative Republicans work together with moderate Republicans to pass legislation Democrats hate.
CIVIL LIBERTIES, n. Unnecessary privileges that you aren't afraid of losing unless you are a God-hating, baby-killing, elitist liberal who loves Saddam Hussein more than your own safety.
CLARIFY, v. Repeating the same lie over and over again.
CLASS WARFARE, n. Any attempt to raise the minimum wage.
CLEAN, adj. The word used to modify any aspect of the environment Republican legislation allows corporations to pollute, poison, or destroy.
CLIMATE CHANGE, n. Global warming, without that annoying suggestion that something is wrong.
COALITION, n. One or more nations whose leaders have been duped, pressured or bribed into supporting ill-conceived, unnecessary, under-planned and/or illegal US military operations.
CONVICTION, n. Making decisions before getting the facts, and refusing to change your mind afterward.
CULTURE OF LIFE, n. A reduction of reproductive freedoms.
DEATH TAX, n. A term invented by anti-tax zealots and referring to a tax used to prevent the very wealthy from establishing a dominating aristocracy in this country.
DEMOCRACY, n. My way or the highway.
DEMOCRATIC ALLY, n. Any democracy, monarchy, plutocracy, oligarchy or dictatorship--no matter how ruthless--that verbally supports American diplomatic and economic goals.
DEREGULATE, v. To pursue greed and exploitation.
DETAIN, v. Hold in a secret place without recourse to law and treat in any manner one wishes.
ECONOMIC PROGRESS, n. 1. Recession; 2. Rising unemployment; 3. Minimum-wage freeze.
ECONOMIC RECOVERY, n. When three out of five software engineers who lost their jobs to outsourcing are able to find part-time work at Wal-Mart.
ELECTION FRAUD, n. Counting every vote.
FAIRER, adj. Regressive.
FAITH, n. The stubborn belief that God approves of Republican moral values despite the preponderance of textual evidence to the contrary.
FAITH-BASED INITIATIVE, n. Christian Right Payoff.
FAITH COMMUNITY, n. Evangelicals, because they are saved, and hawkish conservative Jews, because they are useful. Israel is the bait-on-the-hook just waiting for God to take that Rapturous bite.
FAMILY VALUES, n. Oppression of women.
FISCAL CONSERVATIVE, n. A Republican who is in the minority.
FOX NEWS, n. White House Press Office.
FREEDOM, n. What Arabs want but can't achieve on their own without Western military intervention. It bears a striking resemblance to chaos.
GIRLY MEN, n. Those who do not grope women.
GROWTH, n. The justification for tax cuts for the rich. What happens to the deficits when Republicans cut taxes on the rich.
HARD WORK, n. What Republicans say when they can't think of anything better.
HEALTHY FORESTS, n. No tree left behind.
HONESTY, n. Lies told in simple declarative sentences: "Freedom is on the march."
HUMBLE FOREIGN POLICY, n. The invasion of any sovereign nation whose leadership Republicans don't like.
HUMBLED, adj. What a Republican says right after a close election and right before he governs in an arrogant manner.
INSURGENT, n. Armed or unarmed, violent or non-violent Iraqi on the receiving end of an American rocket blast or bullet spray, regardless of age, gender or political affiliation.
JOB GROWTH, n. Increased number of jobs an individual has to take after losing earlier high-paying job.
JUNK SCIENCE, n. Sound science.
MORAL VALUES, n. Hatred of homosexuals dressed up in Biblical language.
MANDATE, n. What a Republican claims to possess when only 49 percent of the voting public loathes him instead of 51 percent.
THE MEDIA, n. Immoral elitist liberally-biased traitors who should leave Republicans alone so they can complete God's work on Earth in peace and quiet, behind closed doors.
MODERNIZE, v. To do away with, as in modernizing Social Security, labor laws, etc.
NEOCONSERVATIVES, n. Nerds with Napoleonic complexes.
OBSTRUCTIONIST, n. Any elected representative who dares to question Republican radicals on the issue of the day.
OFFICE OF FAITH-BASED INITIATIVES, n. Christian Right payoff.
OWNERSHIP SOCIETY, n. A society in which Republican donors own the rest of us.
PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION, n. A non-medical term invented by anti-choice zealots that refers to a broad class of abortion procedures; employed as a first step in reversing Roe v. Wade.
PHILOSOPHY, n. Religion.
POLITICAL CAPITAL, n. What a Republican president receives as a result of a razor-thin margin of victory in an election.
PRESS CONFERENCE, n. A rare event designed for the President to brag about his prowess as a leader while simultaneously dodging difficult questions.
PRIVATIZE, v. To steal the resources of the national community and give them to private business.
REFORM, v. To eliminate, as in tort reform (to eliminate all lawsuits against businesses and corporations) or Social Security and Medicare reform (to eliminate these programs altogether).
REFORM, n. Rollback of New Deal reforms, laws, standards and social protections.
RESOLUTE, adj. Pig-headed.
SIMPLIFY, tr. v. To cut the taxes of Republican donors.
SLAVE, n. A person without legal rights, e,g. a fetus.
SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, n. rich person
SOCIAL SECURITY REFORM, n. Leave no Wall Street broker behind.
STAYING THE COURSE, v., The act of being stubborn and unable to admit glaring policy mistakes; being wrong and sticking with the wrong idea regardless of the consequences.
STRICT CONSTRUCTIONIST, n. A judge with extremely conservative beliefs, who interprets laws in a manner that fits his/rarely-her own belief systems, while maintaining that this was the original intent of the law.
SUPPORT THE MILITARY, v. To praise Bush when he sends our young men and women off to die for no reason and without proper body armor. TAX REFORM, n. The shifting of the tax burden from unearned income to earned income, or rather, from the wealthy elite to the working class.
TAX SIMPLIFICATION, n. A way to make it simpler for large US corporations to export American jobs to avoid paying US taxes.
TORT REFORM, n. Corporate immunity and impunity.
UNITER, n. A Leader who brings together his followers by fomenting hatred for anyone who disagrees with him.
VERY CLEAR, adj. Modifier used immediately before any preposterous explanation or rationale.
Dictionary from Ocnus.Net (http://www.ocnus.net/cgi-bin/exec/view.cgi?archive=62&num=16144)
An Excellent quote I found on the net
"The greater danger of labels (whether they be of religion, nationality, or politics) is that they are used to divide us and herd us into boxes and make us think in terms of what we should believe and who are allies should be than what we really want them to be. They are being used as weapons to divide people into ineffective warring factions and thus prevent them from finding commonalities that might lead to concerted action." - Mano Singham
I believe I have preached on the dangers of labels before but I can't find it. I basically said that labels divide the community instead of uniting it. That still stands every time you try to exclude someone from the community on the basis that they don't fit you make the community smaller and more vulnerable to attack by those who would do us harm. That is the biggest danger of labels. Only apply lables you support to yourself and never let someone else label you.
i dislike labels in general , i think they all demean someone, even something innocent can be taken the wrong way.
kitten looks at label on her neck by setting up some mirrors, but it's back to front and she can't read it
i think mine says "hand wash only, rinse in warm milk, kiss frequently" ... or at least, it ought to!
Ellen, you can read it, even big words, what does it say?
Susan, you left one out.
COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATISM: Stealing the Democrates agenda to get more votes, and fool people into believing they have a heart.
With regard to Death tax, "prevent the very wealthy from establishing a dominating aristocracy in this country." too late.
Cassie
Quote from: kitten on June 30, 2005, 08:44:23 PM
kitten looks at label on her neck by setting up some mirrors, but it's back to front and she can't read it
i think mine says "hand wash only, rinse in warm milk, kiss frequently" ... or at least, it ought to!
Ellen, you can read it, even big words, what does it say?
It has an arrow pointing up and says insert brain here ... love Ellen
>:D
I dislike labels too. We are all a product of labeling. This is how we get identified in this world. Sometimes the label is very demeaning and then again the label will boost your ego. Labeling is not bad, you just have to get over it. I was born with a label, in fact a few labels and over the years some have stayed the same and some have changed. Some I have changed some I can't change. This is just part of life.
Sheila
I'm ok with pretty well any words or labels as long as they're said with love or affection.
Dennis
Same here Dennis, depending on context words mean little to me. I tend to listen more to the essance of them then the words themselves and use so little of them with those who are closest, as they are not needed except to describe events and plans or when you cant be in proximity.
Terri
Some labels I like that I label myself. Like Artist, Creative, Nice. They are probably more self defined though. Other people using these to describe me might assume other parts that I dont like about those words, and attach more behavior, attitudes, and qualities on to even those 3 words. And because its not well defined , then it could be used in a bad way.
I know what you mean by the "we". Just because a person has X and maybe Y in common doesnt infer that Z is also in common.
A label when used to pidgeon hole a person avoids the fact that we are all individuals and while having characteristics that are shared by others the total picture of one person is different to every other person. Although I enjoy sharing characteristics with you all wouldn't it boring if we did fit into that pidgeon hole that some would try toput us in.
Hi, everyone. My name is Tiffani.
The labels that I hate the most are: you're a "*******" or you're "insane", simply because we live a different lifestyle than #3: the "moral majority".
please read the site rules, especially number 8.
8. Foul or obscene language belongs on the street. Please do not bring it on to my site, my chat or my forums.
[edit]for language[/edit]
Hi, everyone. Please accept my apology for using foul language earlier today.
Thank you, Beth, for bringing that to my attention. I promise not to do that again.
The idea that I was trying to get across is that people call us "misfits", "abominations" or "weirdos", (a very polite way of describing what we are often called by others), because we don't fit their definition of what is right and proper; many of us are fairly visible and are therefore targeted by individuals who refuse to acknowledge anything except their own biases.
Tiffani
I love labels because they help me to know what a person is basically about. Kinda like when shopping for food :) That doesn't mean i won't communicate with all labels as that is what i do because of my christian nature. Where is my clone??? ;D
Hi Danielegirl,
The problem with labels is that they are normally not something that we place on ourselves. They are usually something provided by narrow minded people in order to group people into their restricted perceptions of the world.
People normally don't label themselves they normally identify with some of the characteristics of other groups of people. Such as identify with TG. A label infers that all within that label are the same such as food shopping labels we are not all the same within those that selfidentify as being TG as you would no from this site.
Shelley
sometimes, you just get inspired at an odd moment. one such moment:
*********************************************
LABELS. a short story by Svetlana Perpetua-Jane Ross.
"so..."
"so."
"right. a piece of paper."
"a piece... of quite blank... paper."
"and then... 100 of them."
"now you see, we've got to make that into that."
"that into that?"
"yeah."
"so... um... how... exactly"
"money-wise, i mean."
"ah..."
"words and pictures. stuff. day filler."
"but what?"
"well, what do we like?"
"we like this [box of stuff]."
"you know what, i bet we could go on writing about that [box of stuff] forever."
"we'd never be out of jobs. but then again"
"yeah, yeah, come on... then again what?"
"then... ... again... how many people are like us?"
"what you mean how many like the same stuff? well i expect pretty much everybody"
"what if it isn't like that?"
"ah well, you've got a point there. tell you what, let's just dip out toe in and see what the temperature's like."
"okay."
...
"alright, so - fresh off the press, this is."
"how'd we do?"
"hmm. ah - not so good i'm afraid."
"what? why? don't they all think like us?"
"they're all different people i guess, after all. it strange though..."
"what? what's strange?"
"look at these figures... lots of [category] people in here. more than the [other category] people."
"interesting... ... ... ... but, like... so?"
"well, we should just move somewhere where there are lots of those people."
"alright, good idea. let's do that this time around coming up."
"see what happens."
...
"well, this is looking a bit better than before."
"oh, look at that. even [thingy]'s purchased a copy."
"well that's strange. i mean... [thingy]'s in this category over here. and this category is full of... ah now hang on actually... no, look, look at this"
"huh?"
"you could almost join those two [peoples] together."
"what, to make one? but why would we.."
".. would because then they'd all be in this category, and we'd make more money!"
"ok let's do that then."
...
"but they're not really in there, are they? we just put them in there."
"okay, so let's try some experiments. we'll get one of them, tell you what get [thingy]."
"oh, i get your thinking. [thingy]'ll write bits for us... the [product] will look more like [category]..."
"compromise."
...
"compromise?"
"people don't like it. they are them, they aren't this... hodge-bodge."
"need something different."
...
"i have it!"
...
"ah, but look, you see, this is a [product] for [criteria], by [criteria]. it's your [product]. you own it."
"this [product] equals you. take one. please take one of you. please allow yourself to exist by purchasing yourself."
...
"well, we did it, didn't we?"
"to think... only a year or so back, you'd suggest [attribute] to one of these [peoples], they'd stick your nose up at you and laugh."
"and now? now it's 'always been' an in-grained part of their very collective being."
"collective being... now that's quite good actually. could we expand this?"
...
"isn't this great, huh? we've made everybody around us just like us."
"they look like us, talk like us, like what we like..."
"and buy our stuff because we, aka. they, wrote it for us, aka. them! genious!"
"couldn't have said it better myself."
"so, where you off to tomorrow?"
"ah, just going up [direction] to see [thingy]. got something for me up there."
"oh, ol' fella-me-lad, i tell you, we're going up in the world! it's the big leagues now!"
"ah..."
"whassup?"
"just remembering, is all. we were here when there weren't even any leagues. at all."
"oh my god, memories."
"memories."
...
"so i went there. and there was nobody there."
"really?"
"just a copy of our magazine. just like it. like... the next copy or something.."
".. i tell you what, tell you what's happened, i know what's gone on. we've been promoted."
"promoted?"
"yes! they do the monkey work now. we just get to sit around and watch the cash roll in."
...
"well, that's odd."
"what's that?"
"it's down."
"down?"
"yes! we're in... ... .. in... .. ... trouble!"
"troub.. we're in trouble? well... ... what do we do in trouble?"
"gotta make phone calls, people to see, stuff to sort out. this is not what we pay them for!"
"damnit! you can't find the work these days!"
"yes... hello? hello? you're... you're breaking up."
"damn, to the bloody... ah, never mind."
"time we took a holiday anyway, what you say mate?"
"you know what... i think you're spot on there."
...
"well, now we're back, we're never going to top this lot off. they're all at it now."
"well.. they are all the same as us, after all. we kinda pushed them that way. carbon copies."
"not enough food to go around."
"we have to change our image."
"but to what? we're us, we're partners, amigo. we couldn't be anybody else."
"they could."
"yeah but that's kinda different i mean we forced them to become more... i mean we guided them every little.."
".. and exactly the same, in... reverse... ... whatjathink?"
"but will it... i mean, not a bad plan there, but i mean take this one for example; [category] here."
"[peoples]. not a bad choice compadre."
"yeah, yeah, enough of that nonsense, listen. what do we know about [peoples]?"
"well, we know they're [attribute]. and we know they're all a bit, well, you know - [attribute]."
"well i mean that's obvious, but they have this whole [pedestal] thing going on, i mean, we couldn't duplicate that, surely?"
"okay, no - you're right. i don't suppose we could. damnit! so i guess that's it then... the end of.."
".. where the hell did you spring from all of a sudden?"
"well of course!"
"eureka!"
"so simple yet so... um... i'll just shut up now."
"untrained. they're untrained. they don't know what they are? where's the [product] to tell them?"
"my, god! they're barbarians!"
"no [product]... listen... it's not going to be easy.. i mean, we'll have to become... well, you know..."
"[attribute]"
"yeah, thankyou [thingy]. that's the... ahem... well, that's what i was looking for."
"shouldn't be too bad!"
"huh?"
"what?"
"well, i mean... ignore it for a minute... look at it like, like - like it's one of those [bits] on that [thing] there."
"what, this?"
"like the corner of this [box]."
"yeah but they're all over the.."
".. so we'll tidy up! spring cleaning! we'll be doing the poor [insults] a lesson for goodness sake!"
"but we'll all have to... eventually... i mean... they... [event]! don't they? i mean, they do, don't they?"
"well... i tell you what."
"what?"
"they do now."
...
"... and every time that we'd come across a barrier in design space, all we'd do is just to move on to the next one. and sooner or later, you see, little one, they'd sort themselves out into the right balance. you see, we use these labels... they keep the ship steady, on a steady course, make us money."
"but i don't what i mean what i was asking to ask is that what do you want all the mmmillions of money for yeah?"
"well... money can buy you [peoples]. it can buy you [boxes] to put all your [peoples] in. and then what you do is you keep them all in the box, because we wouldn't want them to get lost, would we?"
"no. uh-uh. no way."
"that's... right. so you see the importance of what i do now, little one. come... follow me."
"but, but, where are we going, huh? where are we going?"
"we're going to a place called a [place]. i'm going to show you what all this money does, once i've made it!"
"oh wow, we're"
"now, now, don't get too excited. it's nothing overspectacular... .. .... ... .... ... .. look."
"wooooow, hey, this looks just like it does in the [product]!"
"yes. you see, now that i've made it, i can enjoy it for myself. it's the cycle of things."
"we're all... all of us... you see... we're all part of that cycle. we all go around and around."
"basically speaking, little one, we are the same as each other."
"blood."
"blood!"
"yes, yesyesyeshyesh, yesh. blood, good and strong."
"we are the same as all the other [peoples] out there are the same as us, too."
"same as us."
"they all make [product] just like we do inthat right."
"all make [product] just like we do."
"we're all [peoples]!"
"did you hear me, planet! we're all [peoples]! we're [peoples] i tell you! so you can stick it up your [product] because we're not taking it any more! we're the same as you, the bleedin' same, don't you understand. we make your bloody [product]. you're in OUR [box]! OUR friggin' [box]! we own you! we own you. our [box]."
// and at that point, i really just kinda had to calm the poor guy down. it was obvious he'd had too much to drink. was late... end of my shift. i showed him the way across the street, and then walked home myself. oh...
oh, and i picked up this magazine on the way back. neat, isn't it? yeah, i thought you'd like it!
Well i have labels for me. Like lesbian which tells men don't waste your time with me. I also have transbian which means i like girls like me. I also have lean and healthy and blonde etc etc etc.. works for me.. :)
Labels can never totally discribe a person. No one fits into just one catagory and trying to force someone into a "tight" label does them an injustice.
I don't like the term TS, I would rather just be called a woman. But I guess shrinks and society in general needs some way to put us in a seperate area so they can forget about us.
Sarah
i personally feel that if you are post-op, you shouldn't be labelled TS at all. that's my opinion on it. i'm less sure about it, when it comes to pre-ops (like myself). if i call myself TS, people might think i'm "therefore" not a woman. but i am. so to keep it accurate, i might think to not call myself TS... but if i do that, people will think i've got female genitalia. which i don't. so i go back to the thing of calling myself TS again... and it goes around in an endless logic loop.
i seem to settle on calling myself "mid-transition" because, as most people don't know what i mean by it, they don't bother thinking anything of it. yet if somebody were to assume i have female genitalia, i did say something that might've warned them. it's a bad compromise, but i don't see any perfect solution, so i make do with it.
I personally have a distaste for labels as all they are is an attempt to "discribe" ourselves to other individuals, and of course everyone personally describes a particular label different then others, so no true picture is communicated.
I find it much more worthy to simply let others feel and experience what you are by your own conduct toward them and others. It doesn't allways put you in the best light, depending on thier pre-concieved views,or understanding of your actions, but over the long run is much more honest and less open to interpetation in the long run as it is more fact and individually based rather then group based. We are after all, individuals with individual experience and feelings.
Win some, lose some
Terri
Ah! Semantics, life is to complicated for words any way. Each second brings its own unique situation. Labels only generalize it as in "average" there is none.
The problem with labels is that in order to accurately describe something, you have to use so many labels that everyone is confused, and you could have just explained it faster in plain English in the first place.