Hi Veronica,
I really tend to agree with what Stephanie and Leigh has said, but since you have said that you are trying to match your body with your mindset then that it a different story all together. I think (and this is my own opinion) that we all start off as cross-dressers and then later on in life we feel more comfortable with ourselves and what path we feel is best and that is when we decide to further ourselves in our journey, and that is when we decide to match our bodies with our mindset. I've been cross-dressing since I was fourteen, and now at thirty-seven, I am in the process of starting my transition to becoming a woman :).
Gina
[edit]This post and those replies following have been split from the topic "Buying Hormones On-line" - Steph[/edit]
I'll have to disagree with you Gina. It is not the same start for all of us. Everyone is different and your own experience is no less valid but I did not start out as a crossdresser. I simply was who I was, a girl. clothes were not the issue, for me that came later as I began to view the clothing as a distinguishing factor, something that would keep me in sink with the females growing up around me but that I was forbidden to wear. I'll leave it at that as I don't want to get off topic but you did say "all".
Cassie
I'm right along with you on something so personal Cassie. For me too, it was never about such a mundane thing like cloths, I spent more then 30 years without ever crossdressing after turning away from such things and starting over as pure male and I still have little incliniation to get into what most would consider femme. For one thing, such things simply don't work on me, or fit my lifestyle. I'm happy with the same clothing for the most part that I wore while in total denial, I simply wear it a little differently these days.
It is true that many or most transsexuals are almost indistinguishable from crossdressers in thier early exploration of themselves, but the reasons are so very different. For many of these, the more confident they become in the female role, the less importance is placed on clothing, makeup and props as they learn to simply "Be" rather then appear to be.
As time goes on, it is easier and easier to simply forget that male ever existed, especially when I overhear comments like the other day at work when an elderly couple passed me while I was pushing a cart with several hundreds of pounds of medical records on it and the man said to his female companion "That woman almost looked like a man" and the woman said back, "She's a working woman, she's going to be a little harder then some others". Or the small talk and communication in elevators with other women who show no sign of seeing me as different. I feel like I am home, or almost because of this acceptance, and all the time wearing the same uniform worn by both men and women in the department I work in, a pull over short sleeve shirt and blue jeans, with the company logo ball cap during werewolf week to shadow my face, though you have to be close anymore to see much.
I have no idea what it all means to a crossdresser, as if they wish to remain male, I don't understand the point, but they apparently have a need and my own understanding of it is irrevelant. I do know that to be recognized as a female is important to me, as important as life itself .... I would be ashamed and humiliated to face the world as male again, there is nothing anyone can say to me or about me because of the way I face the world now that would or could be as bad as facing the world in male image and again putting up a male front. At this time, I'm pretty sure I couldn't deal with the front at all anymore, though I still could even a year ago or less, but that side of my nature is in full retreat and good riddance. My nature is not something I want to hide from anyone, anytime anyplace under any circumstance.
Anyway, as I see and understand them, crossdressers are nothing at all like me, and I do not see the connection at all. I used to say that a crossdressers worst fear is being discovered while a TS's worst fear is that nobody will notice. No, we are two very different animals, bound together by a need for tolerance but worlds apart in our thinking and needs.
Terri
I have been reading all the Threads lately and feel like responding, but for some reason just haven't been able to "speak" (type, respond). I'm not sure what is going on in my mind right now, but hopefully I will start to participate more fully again soon.
Sarah
QuoteIt is true that many or most transsexuals are almost indistinguishable from crossdressers in thier early exploration of themselves
Very true. Myself I have always been a bit of a clothes hound so I don't expect to be abandoning stylish clothes. As an Art Dealer you could say it is part of my job. That being said as I have been living full time for awhile I have begun to gravitate toward pants suits and for casual wear jeans and a tshirt or nice blouse in a tshirt cut. If I have to go out in a hurry a little powder and lipstick is usually all I need in a pinch.
I am one of those who has to have something a little extra on to go out regardless. My wife knew a nieghbor who was very prominent in the community who wouldn't go to the mailbox without full makeup. I guess I kinda fall into that category. I just don't feel dressed even though I know I really don't have to do that because I am recognised as female regardless. I guess that is were the crossdresser differs. They live in both worlds so going out just regular for them means being male while going out regular for us means just being recognised as who we are. I think that was your point.
Cassie
I think that the theory that I have been espousing for some time that we are not one or another but living somewhere on a continuum is being confirmed in this conversation.
For each of us the experience of being TG is a personal one and there are some who experience it in a similar way to that which we do. While others experience it quite differently to how we experience it. This I think is the human factor of what we are and as no two human beings experience life exactly the same way nor do TG's all share exactly the same experience.
There you go Shelle's look on the more serious side of life.
Shelley
First off, as I said, it was just my opinion that we start off as cross-dressers, but as for some , their mind set is 'female' even though they have a 'male' body, which can be brought on from their environment. Some feel the need to get all dressed up to become that female that they feel is trapped within themselves. Everybody is different. But I've always been under the impression that as soon as a male puts on a piece of clothing (or even lingerie) that is made for a woman, he is considered 'cross-dressing.'
Now this will be my final post. A certain member of this support group doesn't like me, and she continues to cut me down, like my thoughts are pointless. Right now, I am in a very vulnerable state of mind. :(
Gina
Gina, your posts aren't "pointless" they are your point of view, that does not mean that everyone here will agree with you. And for some TS girls calling them "crossdressers" is like waving a red flag infront of a bull.
Each of us has gone through different cycles during our growing up period. I knew something was wrong with me when I was around 5, I felt like a girl and wanted to be a girl. For those of us who are older (and I am one of them, born in 1944) there wasn't information around about these issues when I was young. We couldn't find out about TSism and yes society of our time (50's) probably did consider us crossdressers, I never thought about it myself. I would not have know what a crossdresser was, much less what GID was.
When you say that "environment" brought on our GID I think your spouting what your shrink has told you. Environment has nothing to do with our minds telling us that we have a problem with our body.
You always fall back on your "vulnerable state of mind", that is a crutch. Your not the only one with problems. I realize that your accident has put you under additional stress, but you have to try to move forward and accept your limitations or problems.
I'm a great one to talk, I have been known to crumble and lash out under stress too.
I haven't been posting much lately because I have been going through a period of frustration and haven't wanted to let my personal anger come out in my posts, saying something I will regret later.
Sarah
It is common for their to be disagreement with all of us Gina. Some have more tact than others when they disagree but no one is purpopsely singling you out to disagree with. Stay with us, it will be better for you and for us to share in your experiences and point of view. I've had my feelings hurt here at times but that is well worth it considering the benefits that I receive.
beth
Sarrah,
You can say what ever you want to say. But every time I post, this certain person makes me feel like my posts are pointless. You see one of the problems with frontal lobe damage is that I have no conscience, and so it doesn't really bother me one way or another.
But I am sorry for waving that red flag as you put it. It was just a misunderstanding.
My psychiatrist is only there for evaluating my medicine. I see my psychologist for therapy.
I'm sorry, but my mental health seems to be getting worse, and I don't mean to lean on it as a crutch. But with my type of problms facing me how does anyone expect me to move forward and accept my limitations and problems. It's like I've been climbing down a long shaft and I've finally reached the end of my rope. The frayed ends of sanity. ???
Thank you Beth for your kind and heartfelt words, but I'm just in a hurt sort of mood right now, were all I'd like to do is find some dark place to curdle into and cry :(
Gina
QuoteThank you Beth for your kind and heartfelt words, but I'm just in a hurt sort of mood right now, were all I'd like to do is find some dark place to curdle into and cry
I'm so sorry things are rough for you right now Gina, remember that they always get better with a little time.
beth
Gina,
I know of no one who doesn't like you. And no one was cutting you down and certainly not to say that your thoughts are pointless. As I said in my post.
QuoteEveryone is different and your own experience is no less valid.
Please do not think that you are being singled out for disagreement. We all disagree on one thing or another. It's what makes us all different. Keep posting, your opinions do count.
Cassie
Hi Gina,
I think that it's important that we express that which we are feeling or thinking. Some things we read will match what we think and some not but it is the process of deciding that which we agree with or disagree with that helps us order our thoughts.
It is the lights and shades that help us to determine the light from the dark. Differing opinions help us in a similar way. When someone disagrees with us that does not mean we are wrong but it does give us a reason to rethink our thinking to check whether that is actually what we feel.
As to leaving us. I ask that you reconsider I truly believe that your interaction with us here is good for you. I am seeing some clarity of thinking in your posts which I did not see earlier.
Whatever you decide dear Gina know that there are many of us here who care deeply for you and enjoy your participation here at Susan's. Know also that we want you to continue to visit here.
Shelley
Gina, when things are difficult, I tend to be defensive and take things personally that aren't intended as such. I read back through this thread and I could see nothing personal, just a difference of opinion. I hope you stay around because we need every point of view here and yours is as valid as anyone else's.
This topic is interesting, how we all deal with our dysphoria. I've crossdressed very little in my life. When I did, I was looking for a girl--me--in the mirror but all I saw was a man in womens clothing. It was so disheartening that I would take the clothes off and hang them up, often for a decade or more. Like Terri, I constructed a fairly tough male exterior to hide this from the world, a personna I could never return to now, even at gun-point. I sometimes cringe now when I look at pictures of that person and wonder how I survived so long in that role. I never dressed in highly femme clothing and don't now; I simply wear the female equivalent of what I always wore. The biggest difference is color. Then, virtually everything in my closet was blue. Now there are pinks, mauves, fushias, oranges, bright greens--that is my liberation from drab--color.
Dawn
Gina, personally, I did not see anyone attack you. From my point of view, it just looked like they were disagreeing with you. Of course, what matters is your view on the subject and how you feel.
QuoteI hope you stay around because we need every point of view here ... This topic is interesting, how we all deal with our dysphoria. I've crossdressed very little in my life. When I did, I was looking for a girl--me--in the mirror but all I saw was a man in womens clothing.
That is precisely what my experience has been.
Strangely, I have read all the research, and I understand that gender identity is absolutely independent of biologically assigned sex. I know that difference is where I fall. However, I have a difficult time accepting that for myself. I know who I am inside, and I know what I look like on the outside, but I have an impossible time accepting that it is the case even though I know it's the case because that is exactly how I feel.
Maybe it is because I am ... as some texts suggest... not intelligent enough to truely accept and understand that gender identity and biological sex are independent of one another. I know it on an intellectual level, but as far as practice, in reality, I don't know if I can accept and believe it when it comes to myself. I can fully accept that for others. Regardless of who I am, how I feel or what I would like... I have to be an XY Male in this world because that is the reality of the situation and it doesn't matter how I feel inside.
How do I deal with my dysphoria? I spend a lot of time in my room alone. 12, sometimes 14 hours a day. Weekend before last I managed to sleep for 40 hours on Saturday and Sunday. Last weekend I had to rake the yard so it was less. I work, I go home, and I go to my bed and close my eyes and escape within myself where I really can be me, the rest of the world where I go to work, pay bills, and have to to be something I shouldn't be is pretend, it is just passing the time until I can get back to my world. It has worked for years and years and I am sure it will work until I'm gone.
Noone deals with this in exactly the same way. I know a professor who used to go to New Orleans, get dressed up, and go to Jazz Clubs and have a blast and for him, that was the way he dealt with his Dysphoria.
(I use male pronouns because he presented as male every day except one weekend a month).
Just as there are an infinite number of points on a line, I think there are infinte points on the gender spectrum, we are all individuals and deal with our dysphoria in our own unique way. To try and lump different people into groups is the job of psychologists who apparently do not understand that, although we share some common traits, everyone is different, unique, and an individual with their own perspectives, beliefs, and feelings. Therefore it's different for all of us, regardless what some big psycho-analysis book says.
Jessica
I disagree with the idea that all, most or even many transsexuals start out as crossdressers. My understanding is that a crossdresser enjoys dressing and acting female (male) at times but is comfortable in the male (female) role. Dressing in clothes of the opposite sex at times may be crossdressing but does not mean the person is a crossdresser. I understand what many of you mean in the posts above if you replace crossdresser with crossdressing. If not I completely disagree. It is similar to calling an actor who played "Mrs. Doubtfire" or whatever a crossdresser. Crossdressing can be done for many different reasons but a "crossdresser" isn't transsexual, there may be a few who are in denial or undiscovered by themselves but it is no way a significant portion of transsexuals IMO.
beth
To all that have said their piece here, I have given it alot of thought and consideration, and yes I have to agree with a large percentage that there will be some disagreement with what I may be thinking. So please don't worry. I will not be leaving for any amount of time. I'd really would miss y'all very much. I've really grown close to y'all. :) :) :)
Gina
Good to hear young lady,
I have to say the feelings mutual.
Shelley
I would have to agree with Cassandra, I felt the same way as her. I just wish I had not built up this fake male image, because it just makes it harder to show your true self.
Jessica, you said, "Maybe it is because I am ... as some texts suggest... not intelligent enough to truely accept and understand that gender identity and biological sex are independent of one another."
Some of the smartest people I know also question things and don't take for granted things that are told to them. Without Galileo questioing things, society would have had to wait awhile to find out that the world is round. I have trouble believing, without doubt, that there's a Jesus. Am I smart or not smart for thinking that? I say it's neither. A recent Time magazine theorized that some people may have brains that are structured so they're more likely to believe in religion. There were no conclusions.
One of the most famous post op TS's, Renee Richards (a tennis star/ eye doctor), felt that, in the end, transitioning was something she HAD to do. Even with her brilliant medical mind, she couldn't explain it. Sometimes you just have to go on "gut instinct" because you can't wait fifty years to find out what the real medical reason determines. And, as we know, today's discovery is tomorrow's bad idea. Go with what YOU feel.