[SORRY- i won't take things down again. promise. *huggles*]
I've become involved in Wicca mainly because of three reasons- i wanted to 'create' my own set of beliefs apart from Christianity (and besides- I've heard lots of people done it and became more spiritual than before), also because of my fascination that there are a group of people who actualy accepts, or at least try, people for who they are.
Well, we celebrated the Samhain festival (I'm not going to explain what it is, since this is the Wiccan boards- Lol) not to long ago and as always i arrive early to help where i can, like i do.
Because it's always open rituals, there are always new comers and other people that never met me before- and such, usually mistake me for being a girl.
The host group never really understood why i like, or why i find it exciting when strangers mistake me for being a girl- so much so that one, even commented that "this androgynous thing doesn't work in Wiccan circles." this is the first time i heard the word (me being english second language and all).
The whole festival through, i pat and wondered why i'm even there. What am i doing there if such a thing in 'not accepted'?
I'm not sure- although, I'm not sure about alot of things anymore. I guess it's just one of those things that you have to face in day to day lives- and just something to get used that someone will always say something they think is appropriate, but which is actually hurtfull toward you. That's probably what happens when you're not openly honest in the world.
Anyhow- i guess that i have to get to the point, here we go:
How far do you think your acceptance go? Considering that you are in a gender minority within a (growing) religious minority.
I guess i just want to be reassured that the comment was more of a personal thing rather than a religious thing, but answers will be interesting none the less.
*smiles and hugs*
I had read the orginal post, but didn't reply because I felt I needed time to think it through. Then, I got distracted and didn't get a chance to revisit it.
I wouldn't say I've felt more (or less) acceptance among Wiccans (or Asatru) than among Christians. But then, the Christian church that my family attends has a senior pastor who is also an out-of-the-closet lesbian. I've certainly encountered Christians who are intolerant, but they're simply ignoring the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment. I would consider their actions and attitudes to be inconsistent with the teachings of Christ. To me, this makes them more antichrists than Christians.
Wicca, Unitarian Universalism, and Buddhism seem to be where I've encountered more acceptance. There are those traditions in Wicca, however, that have strongly defined gender roles. This seems to be true of some Asatru kindreds as well.
For the record, my personal religion is an amalgamation of Wicca, Asatru, Christianity, and Soto Zen Buddhism. I refer to myself as a self-annointed heretic.
Eloise,
I had marked your post for reading because I was interested. Now it's gone. Sorry I didn't get to it soon enough. But, I also had about 4 pages of other thinsg I wanted to read as well.
N~
oh my word- blush... I'm so sorry- i can totally put it back. *blush* i thought my writing really sucked. (-^.^-) second time no one replied to a thread i made. (this and intro).
OK.... LESSON ONE: leave posts. LOL. *giggle*
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"this androgynous thing doesn't work in Wiccan circles."
Many of the public Wiccan rituals I've attended revolved around both a Goddess and a God. At one Beltain ritual, the "men" went off on the Wild Hunt to retrieve the Maypole while the "women" prepared the circle. I use quotation marks here as there were bio-females in the Wild Hunt and a few bio-males stayed behind to prepare the circle.
Gender binaries seem to be very important, especially in the fertility aspect of Wicca. So, that which blurs the binary boundaries of gender roles might not be fully accepted. My experience thus far would say that this would be especially true in Gardnerian Wicca. Event NROOGD, the New Revised Order Of the Golden Dawn, seem to have stronly gender binary aspects to their public rituals.
I'm not an expert, but this seems to be due to the idea that Wicca is a "fertility religion," and ova & spermatazoa are necessary for animal fertility. Androgynes are gender ambiguous, having the appearance of both or neither genders. Perhaps this makes some Wiccans uncomfortable.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on May 14, 2008, 11:44:17 AMI've certainly encountered Christians who are intolerant, but they're simply ignoring the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment. I would consider their actions and attitudes to be inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.
that's how i felt mostly as well- but down here, open mined people are a bit hard to find. i thought i found it when I started to learn the bits and pieces of Wicca, but now i feel i kinda lost it again.
QuoteFor the record, my personal religion is an amalgamation of Wicca, Asatru, Christianity, and Soto Zen Buddhism. I refer to myself as a self-annointed heretic.
loves it. Hehe.
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I'm sorry Nichole Sweety.
*huggles*
Quote
Many of the public Wiccan rituals I've attended revolved around both a Goddess and a God... ...
Gender binaries seem to be very important, especially in the fertility aspect of Wicca. So, that which blurs the binary boundaries of gender roles might not be fully accepted... ... I'm not an expert, but this seems to be due to the idea that Wicca is a "fertility religion," and ova & spermatazoa are necessary for animal fertility. Androgynes are gender ambiguous... ... Perhaps this makes some Wiccans uncomfortable.
While working with the group, I've also found that they accentuate the Goddess and God, make and female aspects alot. But the first thing they tell people in the 101 courses is that 'we all have male and female aspects within ourselves' - which is still a bit binary oriented, i know, but it does sway.
i always liked to see it as a more nature based, rather than a fertility religion. it could be explained as a fertility religion as well- but for me, they incorporate more of nature into their rituals.
Maybe being they get a bit uncomfortable, but it still baffles me why they your still aspire to such a state of being, and then tell me it doesn't work.
it confuzled me a little.
*hugs*
For a while, I was studying with a coven that was part of the Church of Universal Ecclectic Wicca. After a few months, they pretty much invited me to leave. Either I was too Ecclectic, or not Wiccan enough.
So these days, I claim to be a member of the Bastardized Ecclectic Solitary Tradition. This, of course, makes me one of the BEST Pagans!
;)
O, it's back. Good.
Eloise,
My partner and I attend three circles in the Philly area on a reasonable regular basis for 'open' rituals. At one of the circles there is a trans-woman who also attends. We haven't spoken, but I have observed and what I have seen is someone, her, accepted as one of the group of women.
Admittedly all three circles are met at Unitarian-Universalist churches and many of the circle participants are also members of the congregations there.
So, Shades may have it right about it being a personal preference of the man who spoke to you, or it being in some way connected to the 'binary' aspects of Wicca. There are trans-friendly groups. And the U-Us also have an organization called CUPS(?) that is Wiccan. You might see if there are UU congregations in your area that have such an org affiliated with them.
Nichole
tried to google it tho, but no luck. Lol.
maybe I'll go to the Uni Church once. (-^.^-)
question still stands: do you consider yourself to be more acceptant than the average person?
Try CUUPS: the Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans.
http://www.cuups.org/ (http://www.cuups.org/)
I have never felt unaccepted at any of the circles or any of the women's groups I have ever been to.
Of course, I don't go as a 'male' or an 'androgyne.' I go as myself and that seems to be seen by others as 'female.'
I don't know the answer to your question for anyone but me, sweetie.
Although my partner and our best friend are trying to start a 'Womens Only' circle in our area. I'm fairly sure that I'll be accepted there. :laugh:
We are averse to worshipping a 'god' and feel more in-touch when we simply worship Mother. But, that's just us.
Nichole