I'm seriously considering FFS next year. Right now the number one surgeon I am considering is Dr. Mark Zukowski in Chicago.
My reasons for leaning heavily toward Dr. Zukowski are the following:
- I don't think I necessarily need type 3 forehead work, nor do I want it. I'd rather minimize the risk of complications by breaching the sinus cavities.
- His soft tissue work is impressive
- I think Spiegel and Deschamps-Braly are too conservative in their approach to FFS
- No charge for revisions
- He is local so follow-up would be easier
However, there are a few things that give me pause. The first is a post on RealSelf from a woman who claims she has facial asymmetry after going to him. However, I think she looks great in her photos so I'm not sure her claims entirely hold water.
More worriesome is this old thread on another site, from someone who claimed his trachea shave messed up her voice. That's been a big worry of mine even though most people seem to come out of a trachea shave unscatched. I don't think I really need it but he says if I get jaw and chin sculpting I'll need a lower facelift which will make my Adam's apple look more prominent than it does now.
There is also the case of Maria Keegan who died at a nearby hospital in 2011 after undergoing multiple surgeries at his clinic. It sounds like that was a one-off case of a difficult recovery from anesthesia and is probably the main reason he requires medical clearance before he will operate.
I've been of course following Becca's FFS thread with great interest and I'm a little nervous regarding the ongoing paralysis of her lower lip. But it's also been only 9 weeks and she still has a lot of lower face swelling that could be affecting the nerves so I will hold off on making any determinations based on that for the time being.
I have done a consultation with him in person and while I agree that his personality is brusque I otherwise found him to be honest with his recommendations.
So what is the current consensus on Dr. Zukowski and his work? Is he still considered to be one of the top three choices? Or does he, as some claim, have more bad results than good?
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In general he seems to be really skilled but does push things a bit. He suggested every single possible procedure for me that would be common to try to talk a middle aged woman into doing. My concerns with him are.
1. He is very rough on patients it seems. Everyone that goes to him has days of massive pain and bruising. Some other doctors can do a type 3 and patients use only OTC pain killers and lack all the bruising.
2. He likes to overdo noses. If you don't limit him he will leave you looking like you had a nose job from the 1980s Hollywood. One of his patients told me to not let him cookie cutter you because he will if you don't tell him what you really want.
3. He wanted to cut my jaw and remove mascitor or muscle that I really don't have. No other surgeon I have consulted with yet has wanted to do that.
4. The tracheal shave. I have very minimal tracheal protrusion and likely wouldn't see it even with a major neck lift. Also since I have seen a recent CT of my head I can see that there is barely a mm of cartilage at that point before he would be cutting into my larynx.
5. He said burring foreheads is enough. Again with my CT of my sinuses I can see my frontal sinus bone is very thin so burring it will then require a great deal of bone filler. I need a type 3 not a type 1 burring.
Since you are in Chicago area, I would suggest seeing Dr. Patel. He offers FFS and is a cranialfacial, maxiofacial, and plastic surgeon. He does the face in two surgeries and even with dual OR and anesthesia he is a bit less than Zukowskis quote was for me.
Katherine in Dr. Patel's office has been great answering my questions. I did pay $100 for a Skype consult after the initial photo consult reply.
I'm somewhere between choosing Dr. Patel, Dr. Chernoff in Indianapolis, the doctor in Belgium, or Dr. Telang in Mumbia. Just depends on how much my final budget is and how long I could spend somewhere other than near home.
Quote from: josie76 on November 23, 2018, 08:28:08 AM
In general he seems to be really skilled but does push things a bit. He suggested every single possible procedure for me that would be common to try to talk a middle aged woman into doing. My concerns with him are.
1. He is very rough on patients it seems. Everyone that goes to him has days of massive pain and bruising. Some other doctors can do a type 3 and patients use only OTC pain killers and lack all the bruising.
2. He likes to overdo noses. If you don't limit him he will leave you looking like you had a nose job from the 1980s Hollywood. One of his patients told me to not let him cookie cutter you because he will if you don't tell him what you really want.
3. He wanted to cut my jaw and remove mascitor or muscle that I really don't have. No other surgeon I have consulted with yet has wanted to do that.
4. The tracheal shave. I have very minimal tracheal protrusion and likely wouldn't see it even with a major neck lift. Also since I have seen a recent CT of my head I can see that there is barely a mm of cartilage at that point before he would be cutting into my larynx.
5. He said burring foreheads is enough. Again with my CT of my sinuses I can see my frontal sinus bone is very thin so burring it will then require a great deal of bone filler. I need a type 3 not a type 1 burring.
Since you are in Chicago area, I would suggest seeing Dr. Patel. He offers FFS and is a cranialfacial, maxiofacial, and plastic surgeon. He does the face in two surgeries and even with dual OR and anesthesia he is a bit less than Zukowskis quote was for me.
Katherine in Dr. Patel's office has been great answering my questions. I did pay $100 for a Skype consult after the initial photo consult reply.
I'm somewhere between choosing Dr. Patel, Dr. Chernoff in Indianapolis, the doctor in Belgium, or Dr. Telang in Mumbia. Just depends on how much my final budget is and how long I could spend somewhere other than near home.
My observation of Dr Z work is similar to yours and I agree with everything you have said. Why don'y you also consider Dr Rossi and Dr MDM? I think they are both very good option and affordable if paying out of pocket?
Did anyone by chance look at Dr Z's office for hair removal? Thought about getting both consults while in town.
DO NOT pick him for his personality......unless you like car salesmen. Outside of that I cant complain.
Quote from: reborn on November 25, 2018, 08:13:55 AM
My observation of Dr Z work is similar to yours and I agree with everything you have said. Why don'y you also consider Dr Rossi and Dr MDM? I think they are both very good option and affordable if paying out of pocket?
I may look into them. I have kind of felt like avoiding South America. I should do more research there.
Quote from: josie76 on November 23, 2018, 08:28:08 AM
In general he seems to be really skilled but does push things a bit. He suggested every single possible procedure for me that would be common to try to talk a middle aged woman into doing. My concerns with him are.
1. He is very rough on patients it seems. Everyone that goes to him has days of massive pain and bruising. Some other doctors can do a type 3 and patients use only OTC pain killers and lack all the bruising.
2. He likes to overdo noses. If you don't limit him he will leave you looking like you had a nose job from the 1980s Hollywood. One of his patients told me to not let him cookie cutter you because he will if you don't tell him what you really want.
3. He wanted to cut my jaw and remove mascitor or muscle that I really don't have. No other surgeon I have consulted with yet has wanted to do that.
4. The tracheal shave. I have very minimal tracheal protrusion and likely wouldn't see it even with a major neck lift. Also since I have seen a recent CT of my head I can see that there is barely a mm of cartilage at that point before he would be cutting into my larynx.
5. He said burring foreheads is enough. Again with my CT of my sinuses I can see my frontal sinus bone is very thin so burring it will then require a great deal of bone filler. I need a type 3 not a type 1 burring.
Since you are in Chicago area, I would suggest seeing Dr. Patel. He offers FFS and is a cranialfacial, maxiofacial, and plastic surgeon. He does the face in two surgeries and even with dual OR and anesthesia he is a bit less than Zukowskis quote was for me.
Katherine in Dr. Patel's office has been great answering my questions. I did pay $100 for a Skype consult after the initial photo consult reply.
I'm somewhere between choosing Dr. Patel, Dr. Chernoff in Indianapolis, the doctor in Belgium, or Dr. Telang in Mumbia. Just depends on how much my final budget is and how long I could spend somewhere other than near home.
Hi Josie,
Thanks for your considered opinion. I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree on a few points:
1. Evidence for this is mostly anecdotal. Most people I've talked to who've done surgery with him recovered enough to return to work within 2 - 3 weeks.
2. This mostly comes down to personal taste. I don't think other surgeons do enough to feminize the nose. I've been told I already have a feminine nose but I don't really like it and what something dramatic.
5. I've yet to see an actual before/after picture from a patient of his where endoscopic contouring was not enough to feminize the forehead. While the bone above the frontal sinus is generally 2 - 3 mm, the bone above the orbital rims is much thicker. In my opinion the risks involved with opening up the sinus cavity and screwing bone back in outweigh any minor differences in forehead results due to technique.
Regarding your recommendation of Dr. Patel, as far as I can tell he specializes in facial surgery for cis women and has only recently opened up his practice to the transgender demographic. Most of the reviews of his work are from cis women who have had minor cosmetic procedures. In my opinion there are only a few surgeons in the world capable of consistently delivering quality FFS results and there is currently no evidence right now that he is among them. He might be a capable surgeon in other respects but I wouldn't entrust my face to him.
Quote from: Jaime320 on November 25, 2018, 10:45:32 AM
Did anyone by chance look at Dr Z's office for hair removal? Thought about getting both consults while in town.
He outsources the electrolysis work. He will certainly discuss that option with you during your initial consult. I'm not really sure you'd need two. They offer "marathon electrolysis" which is essentially 15 hours of electrolysis in one day (really about 7.5 hours with 2 ladies working in tandem on your face).
Hi scrambledeggs
As far as bruising, I'm basing on some girls I personally have met and others who have talked about their experiences here. In no way do I think Dr. Zukowski isn't very good at it. The girls I know from the local area both had several days of eyes swollen shut mostly and all the bruising visable. Some of this may be because he does much more grinding and less cutting on bone. I don't know for sure.
I agree that many do not do enough on nose work. Of a couple of girls who did tell him to dactyl how far to go with their noses, I think they turned out perfect.
I was hoping I could go with just a type 1 burring type work myself. What I have learned from getting a CT for sinus issues is that my personal bone over the frontal sinuses and the arches is way too thin for that. I don't have a common male ridge formed (maybe due to being PAIS) but I do have the expanded frontal sinus bulges and hollow arches. My sinus cavity continues pretty far up the center front of my skull well above the supra orbital arches.
I was still primarily focusing on Zukowski up until I got the CTs done. Now I see how badly deviated my septum is inside my nasal cavity and how thin my bone is over the sinuses.
Yes Dr Patel's practice, since moving back to Chicago has definitely focused on cis women but he has done trans patients before. I suggested looking at him because I was very impressed by his evaluation and the description of what he would do for me personally. Dr. Patel spent a good deal of time going over what procedures should be done and what effect he wanted from each one. He can also fix my nasal problems and IF I can get preapproval, I might be able to get out of network coverage for facilities, anesthesia, and the nasal repair.
Dr. Zukowski pointed out issues I have but then ran through his list of procedures as if read from a card. I'm sure it was from memory but it really was every singl procedure you can think of. He was very hesitant about discussing my main concern areas without restating the need to do every other procedure in that same region. No matter for me, Dr Zukowski is not a viable option because of my sinus bone thickness.
If you go with Zukowski just go in with a firm idea of what you want done. That is what everone I know told me.
Quote from: Jaime320 on November 25, 2018, 10:45:32 AM
Did anyone by chance look at Dr Z's office for hair removal? Thought about getting both consults while in town.
I went to precision hair removal for SRS prep electrolysis. Honestly they did a really great job and I can't complain. Dr. Z administers the IV narcotics and nerve block anesthetic but the electrolysis techs do the rest.
Personally I like Dr. Z but he is definitely pushy and is very confident in his opinions. If you're ex-military he looooves talking about that. I personally wouldn't let him go wild on my face since I think he tends to go a bit far (though the results look quite nice), but that's a personal preference.
Dr. Crane in Austin is going to be grinding on my skull in a bit over a week. When the first thing he asked me (after some introductory chit chat) was "what do
you think needs to be done?" I knew I found the kind of surgeon for me. He doesn't take a cookie cutter approach.
@scrambledeggs
@colleen_definitely
Thanks. I couldn't recall the name. I left the primrose with the ad back in Chicago. Once this storm lets up, I'll know when I can set an appointment. Anyone traveling stay safe. Air travel is delayed 3 days. Made it partway then they sent me back today. Still waiting on hold for 3hrs to reschedule flight.
Quote from: josie76 on November 25, 2018, 04:26:59 PM
I may look into them. I have kind of felt like avoiding South America. I should do more research there.
They are both extremely good with foreheads and I think that Dr Rossi is better with noses. Maybe it is just my observation but they are both very good and competent doctors
Not sure if my comments will help anyone, but here goes. I am exactly 2-weeks post op from FFS with Dr. Zukowski. You are correct in that he is very confident about his work, but I found that re-assuring prior to surgery. I want my surgeon to be confident. I do think he has this whole FFS thing down pat and I trust him. I don't think he rushes surgery, but takes his time to do it right. My perception of him is as a perfectionist and he expects that same level of dedication from his staff and associates. I think he gives it his all. Price wise, I'm sure he's not the cheapest, but this is my face I'm getting worked on and I'm not going to pinch-pennies too much as I want a premium result. I arrived at his clinic the day of my surgery at 5:30AM. Not sure when everything really started rolling, but I suspect it was around 8AM. I think surgery lasted until around 5PM and I left the clinic to go back to the hotel at 11PM. As far as pain goes, I view myself as pretty much a baby, but I never found the pain aspect all that bad. There was discomfort the first few days, but the actual pain wasn't bad. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being the worst pain possible), I maybe hit a 5. My jaw hurt some like if I had had some dental work done. There is discomfort though which is different than pain. I got very little sleep the first few days. You can't breath through your nose the first few days as it is packed. You'll be sleeping in an upright position which is tough (to limit swelling to the extent possible), and breathing through your mouth which makes your tongue and mouth dry. Everytime I drank something I felt like I was drowning. It was difficult to eat anything. I expected discomfort, but I must admit I found this tough. You have to keep in mind, this is not a simple procedure. This is MAJOR surgery and you are going to feel like it afterwards. Dr. Z has caregivers you can hire after the surgery and I would highly recommend them. 3 days of caregiver services minimum. I took 4 days 7 hours of caregiver services, but like I said, I'm a bit of a baby and rather squeamish about medical stuff.
Now at 2 weeks post-op, I feel pretty good. No pain at all and I can breathe great. There is still swelling, but that is going to be around awhile. I'm thinking around the 6-week mark I may start seeing what I am actually going to look like. Right now, I really have no idea. I'd post some pictures, but I'm not very techie and have no idea how to do it. I did send my before and after pictures to Becca (Sophie) so you can ask her how I'm doing.
So far, I would have to give him a thumbs up. He came to my hotel room everyday post-op for 8 days to see how I was doing, check me over, re-bandage things, etc. He was very honest and forthcoming as to what I could expect post-op. He provided me with his personal cell phone number and told me to call him anytime should I have problems or questions. I've never had a doctor, let alone a surgeon, be this attentive. His staff has also been great and I have nothing but praise for them. There is bruising and swelling, but I think Dr. Zukowski takes an aggressive approach to FFS which is what I wanted. I don't want to look like the guy I went in as. I wanted someone who would do the work necessary to give me a chance at the result I want so bad. Just my opinion, but anyone who has this done and then states they had minimal swelling/bruising and could resume their normal lifestyle in a day or two did not have the same procedures I had. Make no mistake about it, this is life-altering, major surgery and it's going to take a lot out of you. And as with any surgery, there are no guarantees as to the results. I took a risk vs reward approach, reviewed the information available, and decided Dr. Z was my best bet.
I'm sure there are other very competent surgeons out there who perform FFS, but for me Dr. Zukowski was my way forward. And like I said, I'm still not sure what I will end up looking like, but I have confidence I will be pleased with the result. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Let me know if you have any questions as I would be happy to try and help. I know I asked Becca questions as she was about 2 months ahead of me.
Breeze57, That is awesome for you! I'm glad you are happy with his work and manner. I can't wait until I can get mine scheduled wherever I decide to go.
Quote from: KimOct on December 06, 2018, 01:29:53 AM
I had a 2 hour consultation with Zukowski - my brother came with. They are both ex Navy - he spent more time talking with my brother than me.
I found his personality abrasive but you are not going to him to make friends-right?
His surgical suite is impressive and he is good with a scalpel.
He is aggressive in his approach he has a definite idea of what a woman looks like and tends to exaggerate feminine characteristics. If you want to look more than a little different than you do now he is your guy.
A friend of mine had pretty much everything done. She looks good but it is obvious she had work. Her cheeks are huge. It has been over a year and she healed fine.
I did do the electrolysis in the office space that he rented out to an electrologist in 2016 - sadly she died recently so I don't know what the current arrangement is - it was an all day mass clearing with 2 techs - one on each side - it was very hard on my face. My face was red and swollen for weeks. Also left scars. I recommend sticking with traditional one hour treatments.
In summary I think Zukowski is right for some people. If you want dramatic results and don't care about his misogynistic obnoxious attitude and professional arrogance ( again you are not hiring him to be a friend ) than meet with him. He is good at doing the work - his way.
Little concern. I would say that ONE YEAR is not long enough to assume the end result of FFS or SRS or Vocal surgery has come.
All three surgeries took at least two years for me to be totally entirely finished with changes and final presentation............
Not saying life goes back to normal in that time. I am only saying it takes a long time for the final presentation to be there.
Quote from: Jaime320 on November 25, 2018, 10:45:32 AM
Did anyone by chance look at Dr Z's office for hair removal? Thought about getting both consults while in town.
I did mine at his office. I'd say it's worth it. I had four full clearings there. They use the bled method.
You will need to go back as there is a 50 to 60% hair regrowth as there are folicals in the face under the active follicles.
He does not do the hair removal, but he outsources to Precision Hair removal. He does give you the injections in the face to numb your face. The injections are horrible!!
You can do a in person FFS console there.
As far as FFS goes I think his work is good and his prices are very good. He does sell you everything though as others have stated. He wants to make you beautiful. He's kind and caring, but his bed side manners can put one off. They are just comments that one might not expect from a doctor when first meeting. I think he is just being himself I guess... I like him though and he is a good guy. Has lgbtq people working for him. His wife works there. She is nice.
I may still have him do some work. I did not want everything he wanted me to do at this time. So I went to Dr. Spiegel to just have a few specific things done. He did great work.
I have three other friends that went to Dr. Z. One has a crooked lip lift and her chin work is crooked. Dr. Z said he will fix it for her. The other two girls look fine.
I've spent more time with Dr Z though. Four visits for electrolysis and two in person FFS consolations. I went a second time because my face changed a lot from HRT and loss of 40 lbs.
Dr. Z seems to focus on FFS and his surgery is all done at his office.
There is really no 'best' surgeon. I've seen good and less good work from all.
Quote from: CindyLouFromCO on December 09, 2018, 09:54:49 PM
I have three other friends that went to Dr. Z. One has a crooked lip lift and her chin work is crooked. Dr. Z said he will fix it for her. The other two girls look fine.
Dr. Z seems to focus on FFS and his surgery is all done at his office.
Thank you for sharing this. Did you friend ever end up getting her lip lift and chin revisions? If so, what does she look like now? And how bad is the unevenness of those two mistakes?
And for your other friends that look "fine", would you say they are passable when they weren't before? Are they beautiful or attractive or just "fine"?
Quote from: scrambledeggs on February 22, 2019, 05:24:01 AM
Thank you for sharing this. Did you friend ever end up getting her lip lift and chin revisions? If so, what does she look like now? And how bad is the unevenness of those two mistakes?
And for your other friends that look "fine", would you say they are passable when they weren't before? Are they beautiful or attractive or just "fine"?
No, my friend has not had her revisions done.
I'm not sure why. It's not that noticeable. She thinks her chin is crooked. It is but I did not notice until she pointed it out.
I noticed her lip lift right away without her pointing it out. She looks good though.
I'm sure swelling up again and having to go through surgery again is causing her second thoughts about having the revisions done. He did good work on her, but there are those two things that need to be redone.
As far as the other girls. One is younger and I can say she looks beautiful after his work.
The other girl is in her late 50's and she looks great.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I went to Dr. Z for initial face work and five years later (last summer) I went back for forehead work (my forehead is not a priority) and middle age tightening up. Unfortunately, I had a health concern where we had to cancel. I'm going back this year, and he didn't penalize me for my issue (skin infection I thought was minor, was not). He is a stand up guy.
About the procedures, I got nose, masseter, chin shave and also the adam's apple shave. I did have post-op bruising, but nothing excessive. Also, I asked him to be aggressive. When I was healed I was very happy with my look and my ent doc was impressed with the nose job. So afterward, you do have some swelling, but it wasn't very painful-more discomfort. Dr. Z stops by the hotel and checks up with you, and he even played with my big goofy cat (not one of the two pictured). My husband likes him too. His staff is great, especially Cole.
Yeah, I'm a Dr. Z fan.
Quote from: scrambledeggs on November 22, 2018, 07:03:46 AM
I'm seriously considering FFS next year. Right now the number one surgeon I am considering is Dr. Mark Zukowski in Chicago.
My reasons for leaning heavily toward Dr. Zukowski are the following:
- I don't think I necessarily need type 3 forehead work, nor do I want it. I'd rather minimize the risk of complications by breaching the sinus cavities.
- His soft tissue work is impressive
- I think Spiegel and Deschamps-Braly are too conservative in their approach to FFS
- No charge for revisions
- He is local so follow-up would be easier
However, there are a few things that give me pause. The first is a post on RealSelf from a woman who claims she has facial asymmetry after going to him. However, I think she looks great in her photos so I'm not sure her claims entirely hold water.
More worriesome is this old thread on another site, from someone who claimed his trachea shave messed up her voice. That's been a big worry of mine even though most people seem to come out of a trachea shave unscatched. I don't think I really need it but he says if I get jaw and chin sculpting I'll need a lower facelift which will make my Adam's apple look more prominent than it does now.
There is also the case of Maria Keegan who died at a nearby hospital in 2011 after undergoing multiple surgeries at his clinic. It sounds like that was a one-off case of a difficult recovery from anesthesia and is probably the main reason he requires medical clearance before he will operate.
I've been of course following Becca's FFS thread with great interest and I'm a little nervous regarding the ongoing paralysis of her lower lip. But it's also been only 9 weeks and she still has a lot of lower face swelling that could be affecting the nerves so I will hold off on making any determinations based on that for the time being.
I have done a consultation with him in person and while I agree that his personality is brusque I otherwise found him to be honest with his recommendations.
So what is the current consensus on Dr. Zukowski and his work? Is he still considered to be one of the top three choices? Or does he, as some claim, have more bad results than good?
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thanks for reading my thread.
I am 5 months post op and more impressed now with Dr Z's work than i was when you started this thread. Extensive work like this is not without risks. I knew going in that I
I have indeed had a LOT of swelling. But I also bled more than average in surgery. Dr Z referred to me as a "bleeder." And my swelling and bruising has taken longer than average to go down. Currently I still have moderate swelling under my chin/jaw, but everywhere else is in good shape. He was aggressive with my chin contouring and I had a neck lift. I still can't lower my lower lip on the left side. Dr Z says my swelling continues to be the issue. He also wants to do a minor revision to my nose, Which i may have done next year in tandem with hair transplants to cover my forehead scar.
I am especially happy with the forehead and orbital rim work Dr Z did. As I've healed i can see it better. my forehead is smooth. And the lift he did took away my droopy eyelids and forehead wrinkles.
The massetter muscle reduction was indeed worth the extra swelling and pain. I was skeptical at first but now that my face is settled I really like how that combined with jaw contouring has made my lower face look much smaller and narrower.
I had EXTREME facial dysphoria. It was debilitating. I couldn't look at myself in a mirror. I was constantly being misgendered, even in makeup and a dress. I would not have been happy paying Spiegel (my second choice) twice as much money for less work. I would have come out of surgery looking too much like my old self. I have watched other women i know go through that and I'm glad I chose Zukowski.
As noted in other posts, some people find that Zukowski has a grating personality. If you don't like being called Honey and Sweety constantly you'll quickly get annoyed. But he has been brutally honest with me and he gave me a gift that has changed my life. I have not been misgendered even once since my surgery 5 months ago. And my dysphoria is massively diminished. When I look in the mirror I nolonger see the boy. Now I only see me.