So I struggle with this everywhere so of course it applies even to our community here at susans.org
I struggle when people say oh i lost 50 lbs etc. and everyone replies with congratualtions or something similar.
Being someone who has experienced dramatic weight loss due to medical reasons I find it hard when people have responded with statements of 'you look great' or 'congratulations' when to me it is a sign of poor health. I think that the stereotype of how losing weight and being skinny is something to congratualte people for is something we can all work to become more aware of.
Being big or average or even overweight at times myself as well, it is something I constantly do my best to make people aware of.
1) you dont owe stereotypical beauty to anyone. Being appealing in the eyes of others based on body type is totally a patraichal construct. Look at the first goddess statue which is pretty famous
http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/BRGPOD/54146~The-Venus-of-Willendorf-Fertility-Symbol-Pre-Historic-sculpture-30000-25000-BC-front-view-Posters.jpg (http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/BRGPOD/54146~The-Venus-of-Willendorf-Fertility-Symbol-Pre-Historic-sculpture-30000-25000-BC-front-view-Posters.jpg)
she is definitly not americanized beauty. I only wish that we be more welcoming to people regarding weight as a culture. losing weight can be a sign of unhealthyness and in my experience i often respond to such comments first with a 'Oh is that good? well than congrats' rather than just assuming patriachal values on my brothers and sisters. I know its nit picky however you are likely to see lots of lil feminist blurbs from me as time goes on
<3 ya'll smash that male dominated shiz!!!
Coming from the point of view of someone who is 5'2" and typically weighs in around the 200 lb mark, I can say, in my experience, at least when ppl bring up their weight loss it is because for them it is an accomplishment and a "good thing" in their eyes. No we don't need to body shame those that are not size 0s or have 28" waists with rock hard abs, but I know that a "looking good" or "great job" can go a long way in my motivation. Just my little bit o input
I agree down with the patriarchy asap. Equal rights for all.
I think the comments on weight loss (i also had a fairly large loss some years ago) are of course delivered with good intention but do reinforce stereotypes.
I do also think that sometimes weight loss is rightly associated with improving one's health and longevity. Statistically thinner people live longer and generally show better scores on health measurements. Calorie reduction particularly in older ages is one cause of extended life. Still, it is by no means a universal health marker and as you point out can mean the exact opposite. There are lots of beautiful and healthy people of all ages.
I like your response "is that good?"
If someone wants to avoid losing weight or not to pay attention to what is considered "healthy weight" that's absolutely fine in my opinion. Do whatever you like, it's your body. I would not make fun of someone because of their body weight or body shape. I like variety among people. If everyone looked the same life would be boring.
That said if they then demanded I find them attractive or to know why I might not find them attractive for whatever reason and then try to shame me for that, I'd have to say that's going too far.
You should have the right to look how you want. But shouldn't have a right to control how others feel about it.
And if people shouldn't be constrained by social expectations of weight, then I would expect respect for someone's choice to lose weight if they wanted to as well, and not to think of them as part of some problem. Some people do it for health reasons and there is a problem with weight related illnesses in the West. People should be aware of them, and encouraged to stay a healthy weight for that reason, rather than beauty standards which certainly don't gel with everyone's personal tastes.
So sure, body shaming sucks, and I don't care what people do with their bodies, but there is such a thing as a "healthy weight" window for a human being, and it would be better for people to try to stay within it for their own well being. But nobody should force them to against their will imo.
I think it's different when someone loses weight due to a medical issue versus someone who is actively making changes to their diet and lifestyle in order to be healthier. If someone is sick, they typically don't bring up the fact that they've lost weight and thus are in no need of congratulations.
You may find a lot of people here talking about weight loss because many people's healthcare providers require a certain BMI to be eligible for HRT or surgery. So every pound lost for them is a step towards something that will change their lives for the better. It is natural that they are excited and want to share that excitement with others.
werd. Yea i may have stressed the 'so of course here too' i didnt want to sound like i was whining saying ' everywhere i go blah blah blah' its just a huge worldwide issue to me. I was someone whose weight fluctuated and recently had people commenting on it. Just sucks because I carry a lot of stigma from weight and gender and other shiz so i often deal with peeps putting thier experience of whats right on me.
I mostly just throw thoughts out there to see what people feel like and get a gel for the community I am coming to be a part of.
I am aware i often pick topics that are around issues that may be uncomfortable regarding privelege or really ask people not put words to my experience yet hope by engaging in these diffucult conversations I'm not rubbing the community the wrong way.
Its hard AF to get context in text and mostly just like to engage in communities as my true self. Being that I travel circles I do I often find these conversations totally everyday convos so please call me out as well if I step on toes just being myself
I really can appreciate people sharing views on bodyshaming in general. It's something we all get judged by in this world so I do love that people have a be who you are attitude.
<3 ya all
Shame is a very personal thing, attached to very personal experiences, processed differently, by different people, in different ways.
Culture impacts all of the above.
In MTF culture, we generally feel shame at our 'wrong bodies', though I don't speak for everybody, for sure, and adjusting our weights and body proportions into those more appropriate for our internal self-image is often not only important, but a life-saving process. I lost almost 90 pounds in my transition from a male-bodied person to a female-bodied person. This made my recovery from my surgery much faster, and the surgery itself, much safer. The fact that having a slender body helps me pass as somebody that was not ever male, helps my self-esteem and empowers me to live a fuller, better, happier life.
As for the 'patriarchy', well, I would counter and say that the female form, whether rubenesque, or twiggy-like, reflects current, and ever changing trends, but is nearly always rooted in the biological imperative to reproduce. For those that have no such instinctual 'drive', the pursuit of the currently 'most desirable' female form may seem like pandering to the tastes of the 'patriarchy', when, in fact, it may be nothing more than women competing biologically for the best mates, in an evolutionary fashion, and is therefore a phenomenon driven from below, rather than above. I know that for myself, and many binary-wired females, we would desire to look our best, be at the lowest healthy weight possible, and do anything, and everything to boost our self-image, health, and self-esteem, and we would very likely continue to do so, even if we lived in a matriarchy.
bod·y sham·ing
noun
the action or practice of humiliating someone by making mocking or critical comments about their body shape or size.
adjective
expressing mockery or criticism about a person's body shape or size.
I have never, ever, seen an instance of actual body shaming within the community. I have heard catty remarks, and jealous gossip, and all manner of ugliness, but never have I witnessed actual body shaming.
Sometimes my own shame has colored how I have perceived and received the input of others. But, objectively, nope, never saw actual body shaming...
Missy
Desired body shape and size is a very subjective thing as well Right now we have several different "ideals" in play, from the size 0 "model thin" form to the fuller hipped and breasted shape that many musicians and reality personalities have. I think the most important aspect is if you are healthy and happy where you are. If not, is it for yourself or because you are trying to meet someone else's expectations?
As for me, when I was presenting fully female, before I even realized I was trans, I varied to two extremes. I would do everything I could to meet what the "perfect female" was, be it dress, weight or makeup, then I went the other extreme, giving zero sh**s about how i looked. Now I just want to get to a decent weight, look good in the clothes I wear and gain some muscle. But that is for me, not for anyone else
I may be deviating from the thread here, but the original post made me think about the things I hear while exercising. I play this boxing game on my Wii and one of the NPC's comments is "fight the fat!" Stuff like that rubs me the wrong way. When I was taking in-person boxing classes, even the real-life instructor said things encouraging us to lose weight. What if someone is doing this activity without the intention of losing weight? What if that person is fat and LIKES their fat? It isn't something to be ashamed of.
I've always been very skinny and petite, but I think I have feels for the fat-shaming because I grew up with a lot of body shaming myself. I constantly had people telling me to eat more, I was too skinny, I looked unhealthy, and of course there were the bad jokes about belonging in a Nazi concentration camp, which I don't find remotely funny, and part of me believes they were intended to be cruel rather than funny. I've always had trouble finding clothing I liked that came in my size (modest and not too tight), and growing up, believing male clothing was not an option to me, was forced to wear clothing that sexualized my body in ways that made me uncomfortable, because I was paradoxically exactly the size that society expected of a young, attractive female. When I was pregnant and on bed rest in the hospital, the nutritionist forced me to overeat because my weight didn't meet her approval, even after I told her how much I'd gained and she admitted I'd gained enough in relation to my original weight.
Seems I went on a little rant, there...
tl;dr I agree that encouraging people to lose weight is a bad assumption to make, because it's a slippery slope that can lead to policing people's bodies.
It should be possible to not shame bodies while also staying clear and uncompromising on scientific fact. Significant weight loss or gain results in increased risk of many diseases. This holds true regardless of what the individual believes. People who believe the stating of fact is abusive or rude are usually trying to maintain a state of denial.
In conclusion, by all means be empowering, but also be real.
It's a funny topic that is absolutely everywhere at the moment.
You are definitely right that people should not be shamming people for being heavy or too thin.
But this is the angle I take on it, the human body is not ment to be to heavy, at the moment this too is being glorified to the highest, even though it is not normal. No other species on the planet becomes as heavy, this greed and gluttony the human has, is sad.
We in these developed countries have gotten so heavy while half the world starves, and we throw away so much food. I for one don't, me and my gf buy what we need each week and nothing is thrown out.
Always see people talking about body positivity, but being body positive is maintaining your body, looking after it.
And yes some people are too thin cannot gain weight or too heavy and cannot loose weight, it's not fair on them but they too should be happy with themselves of course. We are all different sizes yes, but some things I see on the net people parading what they call body positivity around is actually societal negativety, it is not the norm, it is not healthy. Unfortunately in our modern half of the world it is rapidly becoming the norm.
Anyway that's my thoughts on it. I'm not gonna leave no disclaimer defending myself. even that is a sad mark on wher things are going.
If you see a post that you feel is body-shaming in any way form or fashion, please use the report this post option, and let a moderator review the post in question. Body shaming posts will not be tolerated on this website!
This is a thought-provoking thread. I honestly think humans will always judge us as long as we go out into the public. People treat people different due to everything about the way we look, talk, act. Regarding race, it's like if you are a member of the same/similar/relatively similar race, you instantly become friends *this doesn't apply to everyone, but I see it happened*.
I haven't been body shamed in a while, but I remember being called a midget, Hobbit *this happened 6 months ago; weird*, and one guy was smirking at my body for some reason *that was like 4 years ago, but I could tell he was looking at my body; I don't take hormones; present myself as a cisgender guy*... like I'm 5'6. One guy even grabbed my whole body to move me *he was 6'3*. I have no problem with my height. One manager even said I was a minion... a "minion"? (this was 6-8 months ago). I hate guys grabbing onto my shoulder. I don't know. But I like my body and height.
I dealt with height issues more than weight issues in my life. You can't change height.
During my teens, my body was extremely skinny, making my gesture look feminine. My classmates made fun of it, and even some tried to touch my waist, commenting that it is so slim and feels like a lady's and etc. I hated and tried to hide my body features as much as I can do. Even in summer, I seldom wore short pants, just wearing long jeans to hide my skinny legs. It had been my life-time stigma until I started presenting myself as a woman.
At ages of 40s and 50s, my body shape is still very unique compared with people around me. After presenting as a woman, my body features suddenly became priceless. I heard the best comment on my body shape last December while travelling in Japan with my colleagues and new team members. At dinner, one of women said that my body shape looks like a barbie doll. That is why I chose my user name as 'barbie' here, too. About 15 years ago, I once happened to watch carefully a barbie doll that my kids played with and abandoned. As the clothes wore off, the doll was completely naked. I suddenly realized that my body shape looks so similar to the doll.
Probably this is one of reasons why I started crossdressing. The stigma suddenly changed to the pride.
barbie~~
I think that we should just stop caring about what people's bodies look like. If someone achieves a goal then congratulate them, whether it's losing weight, starting therapy, coming out, or getting to a healthy weight!
Everyone faces body shaming, small people and big people. I can't tell you how many times I've been called anorexic or been told to eat a hamburger. And I bet that larger people ear things about not being able to wear certain clothes or question their diet.
If it's unhealthy, tell them. But don't assume that they are unhealthy. Fat doesn't mean that their diet isn't good or normal. And skinny does not equal health. Every body is different and each person has different dietary needs, different metabolisms, and all kinds of things.
It's not rude to congratulate someone on their achievements because everyone has different ones. One person's may be to lose weight while someone else's may be to gain, and whenever someone gets that it feels good to get recognition for your work no matter what it is.
Everyone needs something different, what is normal for the spider is chaos to the fly.
We shouldn't praise anyone for being skinny just as we shouldn't praise any one for anything else. Just allow people to be themselves.
I am someone that has had great difficulty gaining weight. I certainly did not appreciate times when larger women would ridicule me for being skinny, and telling me no man would ever want skin and bones.
Lately, I have been fortunate enough to gain 20 pounds. Those that have ridiculed me still wear clothes at least 8 sizes larger than mine. I have never made fun of them for their size, yet they decided to make me feel bad over a medical condition that stopped me from gaining weight, no matter how much I ate.
Some people are just cruel.