I was born in a country at a time when good nutrition for a mother was had to come by. Resulting hormonal imbalances for the mother would not be out of question. My parents are dead, and all records have been destroyed.
I thus don't really know if and what was done to me as an early infant. I have not been able to see any scar tissue. The only unusual thing is that I have a very deep laying anus. I have no idea why this is.
I am obviously androgynous, because I never developed any secondary male sex characteristics, not even an Adams Apple or a male chin/jaw. I am a participant in the global genome study, and one analysis says that the individual (That is me) shows a genome structure typical for a post menopausal woman. lately, my body decided to grow breasts. Not the typical male boobs of overweight men, because I am not overweight, but real femle type breasts with all the nerve connections to the genital area.
If I add all the evidence together, I really feel that I am intersex. What do you think? I don't know how I can convince my doctor and the health insurance to initiate any testing!
It is entirely possible that you are intersexed. It stand to reason that there are probably more intersexed people that what are known. I will admit that I do not know what a deep laying anus is, however the other characteristics that you describe would certainly indicate probable chromosome abnormalities.
I asked my doctor for a chromosome test and it was found to be not needed. Karyotype testing costs can be high. :(
Quote from: gingerViktorKay on October 22, 2018, 02:24:03 PM
It is entirely possible that you are intersexed. It stand to reason that there are probably more intersexed people that what are known. I will admit that I do not know what a deep laying anus is, however the other characteristics that you describe would certainly indicate probable chromosome abnormalities.
I asked my doctor for a chromosome test and it was found to be not needed. Karyotype testing costs can be high. :(
As a matter of curiosity... Did you do the research to find out how much it would cost to pay out of pocket?
I just did a quick internet search and found $2,000 dollars popped up several times.
Also, I've had a different test done and its cost was over 5,000 US dollars about 5 years ago. Mine was very specific regarding a gene that does not process Folic Acid. Anyhow, I found out that being a vegetarian was not good for me and caused mental fog.
I learned that I need to take a special multi-vitamin, usually behind the counter, that has the Folic Acid already broken down. I also experienced less mental distress. I've read that many people have mental fog that clears after beginning HRT. Both helped me. I am sure that I am not alone with this issue.
I've often wondered if this is a MtF transgender thing or just me. I would like to see further research done regarding this issue.
Quote from: gingerViktorKay on October 22, 2018, 02:24:03 PM
I will admit that I do not know what a deep laying anus is, however the other characteristics that you describe would certainly indicate probable chromosome abnormalities.
A deep lying anus is when your butt hole lays really deep buried between the cheeks. Kind as if it had slipped to the inside a little. I theorize that this could have been, because something was removed inside the abdominal cavity, and everything slipped in to fill the void But I would need extensive MRI checking, to see if there is any scar tissue in there, etc. I don't thin k the health insurance would cover it.
My reading confirms that a mother's hormonal imbalances can affect gender identity. So can mutations in the father's sperm.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sa-visual/visualizing-sex-as-a-spectrum/
This Scientific American article did a great job of explaining to me the diversity of the intersex spectrum. Chromosomes are the determining factors that we're all familiar with, but they aren't the only factor. Genes are being discovered that might cause female secondary characteristics in a body that looks male, like you and my SO.
This article explains the status of genetic research on secondary sex characteristics, and how sex and gender are expressed. I hope that it helps you to make sense of your situation.
Thanks. This is some interesting reading!
Quote from: Dietlind on October 22, 2018, 03:56:05 PM
A deep lying anus is when your butt hole lays really deep buried between the cheeks. Kind as if it had slipped to the inside a little. I theorize that this could have been, because something was removed inside the abdominal cavity, and everything slipped in to fill the void But I would need extensive MRI checking, to see if there is any scar tissue in there, etc. I don't thin k the health insurance would cover it.
I thought mine was a result of bubble butt.
Quote from: gingerViktorKay on October 25, 2018, 11:25:40 PM
I thought mine was a result of bubble butt.
That, of course, could be another possibility! I don't know whether an MRI would be the proper tool to verify this!
Quote from: Moonflower on October 25, 2018, 08:13:15 PM
My reading confirms that a mother's hormonal imbalances can affect gender identity. So can mutations in the father's sperm.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sa-visual/visualizing-sex-as-a-spectrum/
This Scientific American article did a great job of explaining to me the diversity of the intersex spectrum. Chromosomes are the determining factors that we're all familiar with, but they aren't the only factor. Genes are being discovered that might cause female secondary characteristics in a body that looks male, like you and my SO.
This article explains the status of genetic research on secondary sex characteristics, and how sex and gender are expressed. I hope that it helps you to make sense of your situation.
This is complicated.
I am a study object of the RIGHT 10K study
(https://oneome.com/news-and-events/oneome-collaborates-on-nation-s-largest-population-based-pharmacogenomics-study),
and this means my entire genome is available to Baylor University and Mayo University.
I am currently in contact with May to see if they can use this study to find out what my genetic makeup concerning intersex is.
An interesting fact I learned from the study (they shared my results with me) that all the opioides everybody is concerned with currently, don't do anything to me! My metabolism will not process them and they just go in and out, but they would not work as pain meds either! I hope they find a good one for the case that I am ready for bottom surgery!
Oh my! I hope they do find some pain killer that helps. That would be horrible. Would you still do it?
Quote from: gingerViktorKay on October 27, 2018, 12:42:46 AM
Oh my! I hope they do find some pain killer that helps. That would be horrible. Would you still do it?
I think I would. I do not plan on a vaginal cavity anyway, because I am lesbian and don't need any hole down there. That will make the entire procedure hurting less. (I hope)
I had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands, and Tylenol was good enough for me to control the pain. I might be less sensitive against pain, I don't know. But whatever pain I have, I want my very own girl parts down there!
I was at my internist today, and he looked me over as much as he could and came to the conclusion that I might have
the Klinefelter Syndrome. He came to the same conclusion my psychologist reached! He made a referral to an endocrinologist who I will see on November 6.
I hope somebody can finally find out why my life was kind of screwed up!
Something that is really discouraging that all my life nobody even wondered why I have that girlish appearance!
I mean, would one not wander if a man sits on the exam table who has rather small genitalia, no hair on his body, no Adams Apple and a female shaped chin and lower jaw, and a rather low in the forehand starting hairline?
If somebody would have cared, I might have been able to safe my marriage!
I am really P*** about internists and family practitioners! If I would have know what to look for, I could have done most of the blood work require in my lab
I am a post-operative male to female transsexual. Before my operation, I had what appeared to be a seam-like scar which ran down the length of my phallus; all the way down my scrotum; straight through the perineum. I still have a straight scar which I've had all my life that runs from my belly button to my pubic area. It's all in a straight line.
It's possible for a normal male to have what's known as a raphe which runs down the scrotum since everyone is open in that area in utero. My "raphe' ran the length of my entire phallus, scrotum, and my perineum to my anus. Also, my straight line birthmark from my belly button to my pubic area?
There are no baby pictures of me under three months of age; none. Some of my early infancy clothes were girl's clothes; ruffle and everything. When I asked my mother if I was intersexed at birth, she swears I wasn't. It's possible for people who are born intersexed not to know. Some doctors will operate on a girl with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome after lying to the parents about her condition by claiming she has cancer of the ovaries. The birthmark/scars on my lower abdomen; former genitalia; and current perineum are coming to mind lately given that I recently got a pet cat spayed. Her gonads were removed and there is now a straight scar running down the length of her lower abdomen.
I've never seen the original copy of my birth certificate; my newborn clothes were girl's baby clothes(ruffled); there are no pictures of me before three months of age; and I have these marks on certain parts of my anatomy which appear in straight, unbroken lines. I know chromosomes are only one component in the make-up of one's sex/gender, so my chromosome test a number of years ago carried out for the purpose of determining whether or not I had Klinefelter's Syndrome showing that I had a normal male karyotype may not tell the entire story. There are people who have developed into complete females with normal male karyotypes. There was a six year old girl in Europe who had Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, around ten years ago, that was discovered to have had a set of ovaries in her body. An exploratory operation proved this. The doctors didn't believe they were going to function well, though. This child was chromosomally male. Most women and girls with that condition have internal testes.
It looks like there are a good number of people who were born intersexed who either weren't told by their doctors and/or parents or simply never ended up with a diagnosis.
The marks on my body may be nothing. They could be peculiar looking birthmarks or something else. Maybe my parents felt some silly need to dress their newborn son in girl's baby clothes, and decided to throw the pre-three month old baby pictures away for no reason at all. You never know, but it looks like I am going to continue wondering about this issue for the rest of my life. I'm still a human being and I still have a strong transgender/gay/q*** identity which I will keep for the rest of my life. I will always identify in this way even if it transpires that I was born in between sexes.
Dietlind, a simple test called a karyotype would show if you had Klienfelters. They don't even need to anylise genes for that. It's simply a visual inspection after making enough copies of your chromosomes. The Y chromosome is much smaller than a full chromosome like the X one. Klienfelters is when there are two X and a Y.
Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome would have many similar body symptoms. There are nearly 700 known variances of the AR gene in the medical database. This one requires actual gene sequencing to match it against the database to know for certain but doctors can make a diagnosis from just symptoms. The test is really expensive.
AIS presents in a full range and is classified into 7 ranges based on symptoms but mainly the appearance of the genitals at birth.
Mild AIS (MAIS) grade 1, patients have normal male appering bodies and genitals with an occasional hypospadias. Most don't know they have an AR gene mutation unless they are being checked because of low sperm fertility. Statistically this group almost always has a male gender identity.
Partial AIS (PAIS) grades 2-5. Patients have progressively more feminine appearing genitals. Fertile sperm production normally stops with grade 2. Skeleton traits may appear more feminine or more masculine. Statistically there is a 50/50 split in gender identity. The medical standard is to provide hormone therapy in line with the patients gender identity.
Complete AIS (CAIS) grades 6-7. female external genitals. Female skeletal traits. Almost always report a female gender identity. Grade 7 do not even grow pubic, underarm, or any body hair.
Then there are those with various mutations of the gene needed for the alph5-reductase enzyme. The condition is called alph5-reductase deficiency. It has very few symptoms in female children but in chromosomally males, it prevents or reduces the conversion of testosterone into the more powerful DHT. In the primary examples the child is born with female external genitals. While this would appear to be like CAIS the difference appears at puberty. These people's bodies produce and do respond to testosterone. However DHT is needed for the external genitals to take the male form. While they are raised as girls, at puberty their bodies begins to show a male body shape and skeletal traits. They grow body hair and the voices drop just like a regular boy. Most of the time they have a male gender identity.
There are fertile women who have a Y chromosome but either lack a functional SRY gene or SOX9 gene and so continue to form in the female pathway.
There are men who have two X chromosomes because during their fathers spermogenesis a SRY gene was crossed over onto the X chromosome.
These are just the more commonly talked about genetic reasons for intersex. There are outside chemical interference reasons like the medication DES, and there is always just plain chance that things don't get timed perfectly in each developmental stage in a pregnancy.
I think it is time that I update this here. I am indeed intersex with XXY chromosomes. They did a karyotype test, and out came the XXY marker. That explains my rather feminin body and the missing secondary sex characteristics.
They are of the opinion that I was always more female than male. This seems to explain why a genome analysis compared me to a post menopausal female.
I basically have no body hair, except some light growth of pubic hair. Problem 3 or 4 hairs on each leg, a very fine and thin, hardly visible hair growth on my arms, no chest hair or hair growing up from the pubic area towards the belly button.
Who knows, I might even have a larger Chromosome mix-up that anybody is willing to look at, and yes, i am definitely transgender, or not?
If I was mostly female all my life, how can I transition into a female? Am I really transgender or just a female who wants to change her exterior plumbing?
Thank you for sharing the update. These variations are (and have always been) naturally occurring.
Another piece in your puzzle, though regardless, this does not dictate the gender identity you have to live in, happiness not science is the key to fulfilment. Good luck. X
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
I always wished to be intersex so that I could have a physical excuse for the way I am.
I have something similar to what you described with my anus being abit funny or deeply set, but between it and the penis there is a small opening about an inch long, maybe half an inch deep. If I open it, the skin inside is a different colour like pinkish and it's sensitive.
I always though it could be a strange sign.
But I don't genuinely don't think I'm intersex, maybe a test some day may confirm it.
Quote from: Rachel_Christina on November 15, 2018, 03:40:48 AM
I always wished to be intersex so that I could have a physical excuse for the way I am.
I have something similar to what you described with my anus being abit funny or deeply set, but between it and the penis there is a small opening about an inch long, maybe half an inch deep. If I open it, the skin inside is a different colour like pinkish and it's sensitive.
I always though it could be a strange sign.
But I don't genuinely don't think I'm intersex, maybe a test some day may confirm it.
I have a similar, very little spot just above my anus (towards the top of my body), some little type of hole that should not be there. I was taught by my mother to clean it well to prevent any possible infections. I don't know how and why it is there, but I never thought much about it, but I never thought much about intersex either, because nobody knew that it was existing.
You are pretty, no matter if you are intersex or not. You wrote else wehre that you did not do any medical intervention for your looks, which seems to indicate that you have quite a few feminin elements in you. It could be intersex, who knows. But as pretty as you are, who cares?
I wish I would have been as young as you are when "my girl" finally wanted to come out. But society and habits kept the poor thing looked inside of me and that made me later into a very angry person. I wish I could have lived my life without that anger!
You have the chance to do this, go for it and be as happy as you can! Life is way to short to waste large parts of it being angry! (I wasted about 10 or so years of it).
(if you feel you want to know more how intersex did manifest itself with my body, we can do that via PM's)
Quote from: Rachel_Christina on November 15, 2018, 03:40:48 AM
I always wished to be intersex so that I could have a physical excuse for the way I am.
I have something similar to what you described with my anus being abit funny or deeply set, but between it and the penis there is a small opening about an inch long, maybe half an inch deep. If I open it, the skin inside is a different colour like pinkish and it's sensitive.
I always though it could be a strange sign.
But I don't genuinely don't think I'm intersex, maybe a test some day may confirm it.
Rachel, that sounds like a partial unfused raphe. If its right at the base of you scrotum, then yeah, its what would have remained the lower 1/3 of a vagina. Assuming you have/had a normal scrotum? If you are lying down and spread out your legs does the skin come back more or less flush, or does it remain a depression? That might also give you a better idea of how much it may have remained in the feminine form.
You don't need to answer that here if you dont want to. Just something to think about.
But yes, even if it was just by odd chance, you would fit the definition od intersex. It doesn't have to be chromosomal or gene related. It includes any genital misfformation or internal organ formation other than "normal" binary.
I was never told anything about it. My mum didn't want to see it when I took pics of it once haha,
I kinda wanted opinions is all. Also to show some sort of sign that I am this way other than what everyone thinks ( we are nuts)
I feel pretty though, thank god. I just feel totally right now, totally confident in myself.
And yeah Josie, I have to open it with my fingers, inside does look to be a funny colour. But maybe and unclosed raphe does sound like it's in the right position for that possibility.
But the rest of me is perfectly normal as regards a man D:
Quote from: Rachel_Christina on November 16, 2018, 12:05:14 PM
And yeah Josie, I have to open it with my fingers, inside does look to be a funny colour. But maybe and unclosed raphe does sound like it's in the right position for that possibility.
But the rest of me is perfectly normal as regards a man D:
Any skin that is inside a fold has a different color and texture than exposed skin. If it would be left over from a vagina, the inside should be some kind of mucous membrane. Which means, a different texture than skin and probably excreting some moisture.
My little "hole" is to small to allow for any guesses, I need a Q-tip to clean it.
If you are really in doubt, you should see a doctor and have the doc take a look at it. Self diagnosis is always dangerous (I am a medical professional, and tend to do this, but I should not o it either)
Concerning your looks, you are a pretty girl, no doubts about this!
Quote from: Dietlind on October 27, 2018, 12:16:00 AM
I am a study object of the RIGHT 10K study
(https://oneome.com/news-and-events/oneome-collaborates-on-nation-s-largest-population-based-pharmacogenomics-study),
and this means my entire genome is available to Baylor University and Mayo University.
I am currently in contact with May to see if they can use this study to find out what my genetic makeup concerning intersex is.
An interesting fact I learned from the study (they shared my results with me) that all the opioides everybody is concerned with currently, don't do anything to me! My metabolism will not process them and they just go in and out, but they would not work as pain meds either! I hope they find a good one for the case that I am ready for bottom surgery!
How did you get involved in that study?
Quote from: Myranda on December 06, 2018, 03:44:22 PM
How did you get involved in that study?
I worked together with the Mayo clinic University on a variety of research projects. And theyw ere looking for volunteers to participate in this study. They were looking for certain demographics, and I fit the requirements. As a thank you their shared my individual results with me.
Quote from: Rachel_Christina on November 15, 2018, 03:40:48 AM
I always wished to be intersex so that I could have a physical excuse for the way I am.
I have something similar to what you described with my anus being abit funny or deeply set, but between it and the penis there is a small opening about an inch long, maybe half an inch deep. If I open it, the skin inside is a different colour like pinkish and it's sensitive.
I always though it could be a strange sign.
But I don't genuinely don't think I'm intersex, maybe a test some day may confirm it.
For the last several years after I first heard of the term intersex or Klinefelter syndrome, I began to wish that I too had a genetic make up to support this to at least help give me a reason to feel the confusion that I feel. Sadly that was ruled out when I had genetic testing done when my then wife and I were seeking fertility help. To this day, they have no explanation as to why my T is low.
Quote from: Myranda on December 06, 2018, 04:20:28 PM
For the last several years after I first heard of the term intersex or Klinefelter syndrome, I began to wish that I too had a genetic make up to support this to at least help give me a reason to feel the confusion that I feel. Sadly that was ruled out when I had genetic testing done when my then wife and I were seeking fertility help. To this day, they have no explanation as to why my T is low.
It almost seems to be that here is a million and a half different versions ans combinations of intersex syndromes. If the lab is not advised to look for certain chromosome combinations and genetic markers on those, nobody might ever find the reason why you are different. We are just at the early morning of all this genetic and chromosome mapping and research.
I went through most of my life, and that as a medical professional very deeply involved in microbiology, and had no idea what was going on with me. I could have done the testing myself, I had the alb equipment to do it, but I had no idea what to look for where! I just knew that I was different. If my breasts would not have started to grow, and if I would not have gotten the results from my genome analysis, I would not have started to look around and insisted on testing. Now, after putting the individual puzzle pieces together, I can form a picture in my mind,on what was going on with me. But I know only about the rather easy mutation of my body, the XXY chromosome structure, but I have the feeling that there is something else outside the norm going on with me. But, again, I don't know what to look for. I am pretty good in microbiology, but genetics is another absolutely different playing field.
What I want to say, you may as well be an intersex person, ne just has not yet discovered your mutation, because it might lay outside of the commonly looked at pattern of chromosome arrangements.
If you are outside of the appearance or conditions of the general public, it is very likely that a mutation has occurred while you were developing inside your mothers womb!
I love your sig.
I don't know your age, but many many years ago intersexed people sometimes wound up institutionalized, simply because they were different and society wasn't able to fit them in. So parents and doctors very often hid the truth. An infinity of times when I was growing up and questioning, I was told I was "normal" - end of discussion. Now I laugh, but they were truly frightened for my safety and well being, but couldn't express it.
This verification to post keeps asking me if I am human. I tell it yes because I doubt it would accept a "no" answer. :) we have to laugh at all this insanity!
Quote from: kristiM on December 07, 2018, 11:08:35 PM
I love your sig.
I don't know your age, but many many years ago intersexed people sometimes wound up institutionalized, simply because they were different and society wasn't able to fit them in. So parents and doctors very often hid the truth. An infinity of times when I was growing up and questioning, I was told I was "normal" - end of discussion. Now I laugh, but they were truly frightened for my safety and well being, but couldn't express it.
This verification to post keeps asking me if I am human. I tell it yes because I doubt it would accept a "no" answer. :) we have to laugh at all this insanity!
I was almost 20 years old, when Klinefelter made the discovery of XXY chromosomes in rats! I was over 40 years old, when they found a correlation of the rat data in humans! Yes, there were hermaphrodites know at that time, but hey were mostly attractions in carnivals. I am sure that my parents did not want me to be displayed as such an attraction.
If you consider that the large majority of people have still not heard about the fact that there are people living among them, who are neither male nor female (biologically), but mostly present themselves as either of the two genders.
And this clearly shows that we are still trying to fly underneath the radar of general acceptance.
yep!
edit: and then there's the shame of hatching a kid that isn't perfect. still to this day.
I just found out that I have another mutated chromosome inside my body! I have the MYH16 chromosome mutation!
This is another nice on, cause it is responsible for the fact that I never developed any wisdom teeth! Yeah!! No problem for this girl to ever have them to be dug out in an extremely painfull procedure!
If I do more research on the intersex ting, I might come to the conclusion that I am not human, but some strange alien life form, which was forgotten on earth when the spaceship left!
Who knows, I might be Superman's older sister and should find my way back to Krypton?????
Go for it!!! :)
How did you find this out?