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I can barely think right now....
I had FFS 9 days ago in Boston. I'm not supposed to decide whether to jump off a cliff for another three months. I posted about this a while ago... the post is probably still on here.
At 9 days I've already decided that this is a nightmare. I should have never had FFS. I wasn't ready to transition. I wanted to be James still too much. There are warning signs all along the way.
I never effectively communicated to the surgeon what I wanted. I made the terrible choice of not being aggressive enough in the pre-op meeting to go through the long list of thoughts I had for the doctor. I failed to explain to him fully what I wanted.
This doctor I went to is considered one of the best in the country. He believes he is the best.
What I have is what people call "buyer's remorse." It's one thing when you go out and spend $100 on an outfit that you wound up hating.
Getting a completely new face is another kind of remorse. This is much more serious than anything I've ever done and it has potentially deadly consequences.
I was the wrong candidate for FFS from the very start. I hadn't gone through any proper planning. I simply had the money to do it and I rushed it through with reckless abandon. One procedure that I already don't like, a lip lift, was $4,000 dollars and yet I just added it on as if I was at a grocery store checkout line and I was simply tossing People on top of my groceries... It was done just like that, without any thought of how it would really look.
It seems that I wanted a much more subtle, conservative approach than I thought I wanted.
This experience has been so excruciatingly painful, they tell you "Oh its not painful" but oh it is, you get to the 3rd day and you feel as if 5 days has gone by and you can't believe time is going by so slowly. This is a WRETCHING experience to go through, and you're supposed to be relieved by the initial glances at what you look like. Clearly I am the opposite- I'm mortified at the outcome.
People are telling me not to pull the panic button just yet but its hard not to. I've fully realized this was a mistake.
I had no transition plan. My whole transition has been started up and shut down many times through the years. There was never a concrete plan of how to go forward.
When you have FFS, the goal is to make you instantly pass. My face is said to now be so feminine that I can't pass as James anymore and that terrifies me. I hadn't wanted to pass right away. Even right up until the very end before the opreation, I was under the impression that this was going to create a slightly more feminine looking James, and not this dramatic of a change.
I would instantly reverse it in a heartbeat if I could. I look at my face and see a face that's going to have to need massive amounts of contouring to get it to look somewhat acceptable. It's long, lean, narrow, my jaw is gone (!), my chin's still long, my face shape has been entirely changed which has caused me to panic because its a face that i do not recognize as my own.... its supposed to get better, you're supposed to see more of your old self come back, and James couldn't come back fast enough....
I already mourn the loss of a brother. I loved him and I loved his face. He was beautiful. Why oh God did I have to do this to him? Yeah he wasnt perfect, and he had some very masculine features... but most people didnt think so, people said he was a man with beautiful feminine features- they said he was pretty, i got so many compliments.... why did I have to obsess like this and want to change everything? Why couldn't I have understood that I was so blessed?
Why is it now that after all this has happened, that now I finally realize what i had? You never know how much you love someone until they're gone.
This is a lesson to all of us.... Our male faces are beautiful.... we don't have to lose ourselves to become women.... Many transgender women never get FFS and are very happy..... FFS is not a requirement, its not something you should ever feel forced into or that you have to do in order to pass... there are alternatives....
and for gods sakes when you love your face, for the most part, when you look at yourself in the mirror and like it, DON'T CHANGE IT.... so what? We all have some feature we hate, Transgender women are often misled into thinking just because they have a masculine feature or two that means they can never pass... its simply not true.... We don't have to change EVERYTHING about our faces to be happy.
I was someone that weeks ago hated everything about myself - i hated my nose, for example. Today I am desperate to see my old nose, im panicking because my old nose is gone... I feel as if i've lost myself, my identity, my ethnicity... I said i wanted it to happen, i wished it would happen, i actually said that i hated my italian nose.... but oh GOD how much i miss it....
This operation is supposed to give someone confidence to move forward and step outside and be who they are, but for me its a death sentence... TOO MUCH was changed, my old face, even with its semi-masculine features, was a million times better than this new one....
because I am not ready to transition, not reayd to go outside as a woman, and i had this FFS done, now im in a terrible place - i go outside and God knows what people see now. I've lost all control of my identity .... all I wanted was for James to look a little more feminine (and i thought he looked feminine already), all i wanted was to have better balance, a wider face - and what did i got? an unbalanced, lean, unhealthy, narrow, face.... I allowed them to take away my jaw which I loved, and to give me something thats not even right for my body.... ad
so i guess ill wait and then post again. This will be a series of posts about FFS and the consequences of doing it when its not planned right or when you're not ready for it... . I was so self-conscious and so insecure about myself, and I went to surgery to try and change that... and i wasn't even thinking it through, i wasn't clear-minded when i did this.... it was all a terrible mistake. i Have NO IDEA what im going to do now.
Well, not much can be said, I think.
There's a reason why women get FFS after a year or two of HRT. They're well into their role as women, they've been presenting as women for a while, etc. Things like these aren't rushed, and shouldn't be.
I'd suggest trying to go for an androgynous look first, and when you decide to transition, it shouldn't be much of an issue for you if and once you get to that point.
Now you just have to accept the consequences and live with them, accept your new look and try to make the best of it.
I am heart broken for you and this is a tragic turn in events.
However, it is done.
To keep things a little in perspective even if it seems impossible. You are so very early in the recovery stages that actually the face you see right now is not exactly how you will end up looking, and perhaps some balance will be restored in the coming months. Despite this, your face will have changed for the feminine, and you will not look like you used to. You need courage now. Only you can muster this.
If it's any consolation, yes you did look feminine before so I imagine you are going to look quite stunning when everything settles down. I am considering FFS, but not until the end of this year or early next. By that time HRT will have had over a year or so to work and allowed me to adjust and develop along the way. This is what you have missed out on and now you have to adjust suddenly. An androgynous approach initially may help soften the blow and enable you to settle in and identify with what you see.
I wish you all the very best. Dont loose heart.x
I am sorry that you feel upset after surgery. Please remember that post-op depression is very real and it isn't a sign of weakness to get help. When you are in a dark place, it is very easy to feel everything is worthless and a huge mistake. Don't give up, you may find that you can be more accepting of the changes as time passes.
Just for others that are reading I will say that I was never in excessive pain (except for the fat injections while I was awake). The nursing support group I used was very careful to make sure I understood that I should take pain medicine at 5-6 if it was an increase NOT wait until it was 8 or higher because the pain can climb faster than the medicine can kick in. They also made sure I didn't try to wean myself from the pain medication too soon.
By all means everyone should make sure any step of transition is right for them, but I can say that I don't regret my FFS at all. Even though it will cost me 2 or more years before I can have GCS I would gladly do it all again.
Actually you can only move forward. Face takes a long time to heal and you probably will like some things after a few months.
I missed my chin. I looked in mirror and said where is my chin? Now I like my chin.
I thought my jaw was way too wide but now it is nice.
I like my nose now. It looks good but it was too high months ago.
If you want to be male you can even after FFS.
It takes a lot of work to transition. A male with a pretty face can be a model. Slow down a take a breathe.
50% of people with FFS will not do it again. Take it easy and talk it out. Soft tissue takes about one year to heal.
Transgender is a spectrum. We feel way we do because we are wired that way. However we are each unique. You took too big a bite too fast. I can relate. I can not take too much change too fast.
A support group helps if you have one in your area.
Sorry it has been difficult. Change is not always easy even when it turns out fine.
A long walk each day helps me. Find some stress relievers.
God bless.
James dear, you are being too hard on yourself.
If it is any consolation, even the most feminine of cisfemales can pass as males if they want to. I need only point you to several rather famous films that starred beautiful women such as Barbra Steisand or Julie Andrews or Glenn Close in "male" roles.
Your photos are very attractive. You will learn to love the new you. And there is no pressing need to transition immediately. Take your time. Know who you are and what you want. Perhaps you are destined to be a very androgenous cismale, or a lovely transwoman. Either way, you are addressing the issues that have caused your dyphoria and pain over the years.
Be proud of yourself.
Tell me again why gatekeeping is a bad idea?
Quote from: tekla on April 09, 2012, 03:11:04 PM
Tell me again why gatekeeping is a bad idea?
Gatekeeping has nothing to do with this case. The person had the money and figured it was the best course of action at the time. No one can stop anyone from having FFS procedures done.
Hon, give yourself time for things to settle, including your feelings. You just went through a major change. Change can always cause stress, after you settle into the new you and flash yourself a few confident smiles I bet you feel differently. And of course, we're always here for you. Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: tekla on April 09, 2012, 03:11:04 PM
Tell me again why gatekeeping is a bad idea?
I don't think this is a case for gatekeeping...
And I'm trying really hard not to lecture the OP because I know she is going through a hard time... so I'll leave it at that.
Just give it a bit of time sysm29 ... just deal with things one day at a time. Focus on getting better and resting now.
When i came out after FFS i was shocked.. that other person was like gone... i was scared too. I even had my jaws wired shut for 2 months. I still had to go thru 2 more FFS surgeries.. One to make a chin and the other to tighten up the skin..
Yes post FFS is scary.. we are use to seeing a certain person in the mirror and then its like wow they are gone..
However, it does give you a chance for a new life and to be able to start over as a new person.
After my hair grew longer i was able to go to people i knew my whole life and talk to them and they didn't know who i was.. That was amazing.. i even walked down the street going the other way past my own brother who hadn't seen me in 2 yrs.. he never noticed me..
Remember what you say will guide you from now on..
on the good side many people both males and females like a feminine face. Its just human nature..
tell yourself you will get to know many things you might never have known..
grow your hair and enjoy passing too.. don't get GRS until yo have spent some time as the person you want to be.. be that male or female or somewhere in between..
you have just grown light yrs where so many can't even comprehend
your past the superficial and can be spiritual since you have transcended gender superficially
go out and do great things..
A week post op I was thinking OMG what the &%$# have I done!! I think it's VERY normal to feel like this. My pre-op instructions said: "You will say 'What have I done' after the surgery." and they were right!
All I had done was my nose. I'm sure if you did the "full course" FFS it would be much more painful and a much longer recovery, so I understand that your reaction might be more intense. About a month post-op I was mostly healed and over any anesthesia after effects. Seriously try to calm down. I hope as you heal things will change more to your liking. I know at first my nose was more turned up than I wanted, months later it has come down to a nice place. I'm sure 9 days post-op you are still swollen etc.
Again I agree with others this isn't about gate keeping but more a lesson that not everyone needs "full course" FFS? And I do feel FFS should not be done until someone has lived full time for a while and knows this is what they want to do. People do have to accept responsibility for their actions.
Quote from: Maja.V on April 09, 2012, 03:19:56 PM
Gatekeeping has nothing to do with this case. The person had the money and figured it was the best course of action at the time. No one can stop anyone from having FFS procedures done.
I think what Tekla was trying to say is that FFS requires no gatekeeping and there has been people who jumped right into the surgery without considering extensive types of therapies to see if they are really ready for it.
If Sexual Reassignment surgery and Hormone replacement therapy were to ever require no gateway, then similar things could happen to someone who gets SRS and then realize they are not ready for it. Gateways are there to make sure you know you are ready. Many people do not like gateways because they think it's about people who want to siphon money from you via therapy sessions but, in reality, they are there to make sure you know what you are going through and what is going to happen.
Tekla knows FFS doesn't require gatekeepers but if SRS were to become like FFS, you'll have those same type of issues.
This is in no way an attack against the poster. Just clarifying what Tekla was talking about...and I have to agree with her. These things are serious steps in one's life. A LOT of consideration, self reflection, and knowing oneself should be known before such a procedure.
I agree with the others that I think you should have waited awhile before doing something drastic as FFS. You don't sound completely sure you are even trans which worries me. Did you go to Dr. Spiegel? I think he's as conservative as they come so your lucky you didn't go to Dr.Z and end up with a completely different face. It's normal for you to feeling like this after having major facial surgery, it's gonna take time for the swelling to go down but after a few months you should resemble your former self to a degree.
In the meantime pop some pain pills and slip off to la-la-land. :icon_woowoo:
Quote from: Annah on April 09, 2012, 05:24:22 PM
Tekla knows FFS doesn't require gatekeepers but if SRS were to become like FFS, you'll have those same type of issues.
Two problems here:
First people can lie to a therapist, and do, so this doesn't stop people from making a bad choice for themselves.
Secondly, people DO have to take responsibility for their own actions.
This is no different than if some female wants BA, asks for giant boobs and then is sorry. Should women have to have therapy before they have BA or other cosmetic procedures?
I was ready for HRT, had been living full time for years yet had to wait months to have expensive therapy completed that was insulting to have to go through. The therapist was trying to blame my being the way I am on hatred for my now dead mother? O.o And she was/is trans herself so I have no clue where all that came from. Wanted me to join group therapy etc. It was just stupid.
As far as GRS, I still believe it should be up to the doctor to decided if a patient is ready or needs more/some therapy first. I feel if someone has been living full time for years, they pretty much know if they want to be a woman or not and what this entails. I find it silly that if I decided I wanted GRS, I'd likely have to go through 6 months of weekly therapy before I would get approved, when there is no issues with my gender identity I need or care to discuss with some stranger. I do agree that someone who is still living as a man, has a male legal name and wanted FFS, BA or GRS, that -should- be a huge red flag that this person isn't ready.
I think for people who are already transitioned into living full time as their chosen gender, these gatekeepers are just nonsense.
yes, anyone can lie to anyone. But according to the things the OP had stated, a brief, serious talk with a therapist concerning FFS and the pros and cons to the procedure could had changed the outcome dramatically.
Anyone can lie, but to me, I think the OP would have been honest.
Plus, I wouldn't want to destroy a helpful program because there are a few lying transgender wannabes in the bunch. Regardless, I would take the chance and work things with a therapist before I did anything....and I did. And it was the best monetary investment I ever made.
Re: Regret after FFS and painful consequences...How do i go on!? Can barely br
http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/can-drastically-changing-your-face-give-you-an-ide
I'd also just reiterate what's already been said about post-op depression. I went through a deep depression following my top surgery even though I was thrilled about it. The anesthesia has that affect on some people.
You're also not seeing the final result. I heard it can take 6 months to a year to completely heal from FFS. Am I correct, ladies?
I'm sorry to hear you regret it so much.
I think you should give it time. It must be quite a hard thing to look in a mirror and not see yourself anymore. I think that is a risk of any such op. In time you will grow to be familiar with how you look and it will become you. It is scary to do something where there is no turning back.
Definitely be aware that anesthetic can leave you with depression, and the pain you feel can also bring you down. It sounds to me that it is not so much you did not want to feminism yourself, you were just unprepared for the dramatic change.
Take time out to nurture yourself. Take it easy, eat well, sleep good, recover. I suspect you will be a stunner. You are still beautiful, you are still a good person. Perhaps you were not ready but we can only move forward. But there is no hurry to plan.
I recommend talking to your counselor if you have one. The feelings that lead you to do this surgery have not gone away.
Take care hun
xx
On Youtube most transsexuals seem to have their faces messed up after FFS, but then with time after they heal they look more gorgeous than before.
For money reasons I think it's best to wait 2 years after starting HRT, by then some girls don't even need FFS, or they only need a little bit of it. But what's done is done.
Quote from: Annah on April 09, 2012, 08:18:55 PM
Regardless, I would take the chance and work things with a therapist before I did anything....and I did. And it was the best monetary investment I ever made.
Well it was a huge waste of money for me. Don't assume everyone needs someone else to tell them what they need to do with their lives.
9 days after FFS is way too early to decide you hate it. At the least I'd think it's going to take 2-3 months for the swelling to go down completely, muscles and bones to settle in, etc.
Before the surgery, you "obsessed" over FFS....now that it's done, you are "panicking." Obsession and panic are two edges of the same behavior-sword: One is before the event, the other is after. That is a personality issue you should address, lest you repeat another obsession/panic event.
imho
Quote from: Annah on April 09, 2012, 05:24:22 PM
If Sexual Reassignment surgery and Hormone replacement therapy were to ever require no gateway,
I started HRT without gatekeeping... and I'll be getting my orchie soon without gatekeeping...
I'm very happy for it also. I don't have issues and am an adult who can make choices.
I think therapy should always be available for those who aren't sure or feel they need help. But, forcing everyone to stop because some people can't take responsibility for their lives is... bad.
We have a great deal of life changing choices to make as we live... should everyone who wants to have a child be forced to see a therapist as well?
Quote from: Stephe on April 09, 2012, 06:30:18 PM
Two problems here:
First people can lie to a therapist, and do, so this doesn't stop people from making a bad choice for themselves.
Secondly, people DO have to take responsibility for their own actions.
This is no different than if some female wants BA, asks for giant boobs and then is sorry. Should women have to have therapy before they have BA or other cosmetic procedures?
I was ready for HRT, had been living full time for years yet had to wait months to have expensive therapy completed that was insulting to have to go through. The therapist was trying to blame my being the way I am on hatred for my now dead mother? O.o And she was/is trans herself so I have no clue where all that came from. Wanted me to join group therapy etc. It was just stupid.
As far as GRS, I still believe it should be up to the doctor to decided if a patient is ready or needs more/some therapy first. I feel if someone has been living full time for years, they pretty much know if they want to be a woman or not and what this entails. I find it silly that if I decided I wanted GRS, I'd likely have to go through 6 months of weekly therapy before I would get approved, when there is no issues with my gender identity I need or care to discuss with some stranger. I do agree that someone who is still living as a man, has a male legal name and wanted FFS, BA or GRS, that -should- be a huge red flag that this person isn't ready.
I think for people who are already transitioned into living full time as their chosen gender, these gatekeepers are just nonsense.
I think this is the first time I've said this but....
Great post, by and large I completely agree with you.
The only disagreement I have is I think people should take on more responsibility. It's absurd that we are forced to let psychiatrists and doctors line their pockets with our money when we are fully knowledgeable and competent in what we're doing, just to prevent SOME people making mistakes, which they can do anyway through deception.
When I did my transition, I didn't follow my psychs advice, my first two psychs discouraged me from doing anything for at least a year, I ignored them, never regretted it for a moment.
It's no better punishing the competent for the actions of those whom are not than the reverse. At least with personal responsibility it's fairer.
To the original poster, I'm sorry you regret your decision, and I honestly do hope things get better, but please try not to generalize your experiences into everyone's experiences.
Quote from: Stephe on April 09, 2012, 09:26:46 PM
Well it was a huge waste of money for me. Don't assume everyone needs someone else to tell them what they need to do with their lives.
And don't assume just because you didn't need the help, that everyone else is like you.
It is better to err on the side of caution and careful planning than to jump in without advice or counsel.
I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT. What I am saying that there are times when people need guidance and advice and therapists and others are good outlets for that.
By saying, "Well, I didn't need any help so it should be like that for everyone" is a recipe for disaster.
Better safe than sorry.
Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 08:03:10 AM
And don't assume just because you didn't need the help, that everyone else is like you.
It is better to err on the side of caution and careful planning than to jump in without advice or counsel.
I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT. What I am saying that there are times when people need guidance and advice and therapists and others are good outlets for that.
By saying, "Well, I didn't need any help so it should be like that for everyone" is a recipe for disaster.
That works both ways, don't assume because you did need the help that everyone else is like you.
Nobody is saying that the removal of gatekeepers means people shouldn't be able to seek out psychological counselling and therapy. Just that it should be our choice, and it should.
Quote from: Asfsd4214 on April 10, 2012, 08:34:23 AM
That works both ways, don't assume because you did need the help that everyone else is like you.
Nobody is saying that the removal of gatekeepers means people shouldn't be able to seek out psychological counselling and therapy. Just that it should be our choice, and it should.
as I mentioned, it is better to err on the side of caution than taking the plunge thinking you got it handled then realizing you don't after the surgery.
I'd rather spend a couple hundred dollars more on talking about it to a therapist than to spend a lifetime of regret because I had surgery that cost from 10K to 40K and assumed I was ready for it.
Am I saying the OP is going to regret it forever? No.
Am I saying Gatekeepers should be mandatory? No.
What I am saying is, it's best to approach someone to keep you grounded and focused than to take a plunge without the bungee chord.
Sites like this is a blessing and a curse.
It's a blessing because you have others in similiar circumstances where you can share your stories, experiences, and advice.
It's a curse because a reader can read all these things about FFS, BA, HRT, SRS, Body modifications, etc etc and assumed because Person A didn't need social help with it then it will be ok for the reader.
Quote from: MacKenzie on April 09, 2012, 06:16:23 PMyour lucky you didn't go to Dr.Z and end up with a completely different face.
I went with Dr. Z and don't have a completely different face.
I think depression does hit hard post surgery. It definitely did for me. But is it normal for one to wish they hadn't done it AND wish they could go back to being a guy? I never felt that way.
Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 08:03:10 AM
I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT.
In your earlier post you did.
Quote from: Annah on April 09, 2012, 05:24:22 PM
I think what Tekla was trying to say is that FFS requires no gatekeeping and there has been people who jumped right into the surgery without considering extensive types of therapies to see if they are really ready for it.
If Sexual Reassignment surgery and Hormone replacement therapy were to ever require no gateway, then similar things could happen to someone who gets SRS and then realize they are not ready for it. Gateways are there to make sure you know you are ready. Many people do not like gateways because they think it's about people who want to siphon money from you via therapy sessions but, in reality, they are there to make sure you know what you are going through and what is going to happen.
Tekla knows FFS doesn't require gatekeepers but if SRS were to become like FFS, you'll have those same type of issues.
You said above you feel extensive therapy is needed for GRS and support these gatekeepers. Then also said you feel they should be required for other things as well. Later you are saying; Maybe it would be a good idea for some people? Gatekeeper = everyone has to go through this no matter what.
Do I need to post links to the people who went through these extensive therapies and still regret their choice?? Oh yeah, at least then they can blame the doctors and therapists rather than take responsibility for their own choices.. Maybe even sue them! Oh joy!!
Quote from: JenJen2011 on April 10, 2012, 08:58:46 AM
I think depression does hit hard post surgery. It definitely did for me. But is it normal for one to wish they hadn't done it AND wish they could go back to being a guy? I never felt that way.
True, I was laying on the couch thinking "what have I done" while dealing with some pain and weirdness from anesthesia. But returning to being a guy or wishing I could look more like my old guy self never entered my mind.
My therapist used to complain about all the requirements for bottom surgery being there while surgeries that change so much about how you look to others virtually had none other than having the money to do it. Its easy to see what she meant by it.
I'm all for some rle time before having any surgery at all, just to help someone be sure that living as a woman is what they want/need.
I hope the op finds some peace with their choices soon.
Well, I told you didn't I? I'm in the same situation as you were before your op, except that my situation has been developing for the past 3 years. At first I also wanted the whole FFS package including taking down my jaw a couple cm but over time had realised these adjustments would in no way compliment my facial shape or other features. I mean, did you ever visualise your appearance with a tiny jaw, or lack of nose bridge? Maybe you only noticed natal women with these features, which is what I did. Didn't pay attention to the fact that their whole faces are much shorter, rounder... things you can't aquire through surgery. I've gone from wanting all the procedures you had, to only the ones that compliment me both as male and female. So no crazy jaw/nose/chin removals or drag queen over-the-rainbow eyebrows.
IIRC you've been on this forum for like 8 months? You rushed into this way too quickly and put too much faith into cosmetic surgeons. Maybe going on HRT for at least 2 years would have made a difference mentally, but sadly you were only interested in what it would change physically and wanted changes too soon so rejected any proposals to think this through thoroughly.
That being said, you're still swollen especially on the lips, while you're waiting for it to go down it's probably a good idea to work on your voice and mannerisms. A lot of people get depressed when they drastically change their appearance, at least now you have an incentive work on everything else. You might be thinking that transition was a bad idea but it's probably just a result from shock, I think if you give your face time to heal, get your voice/mannerisms sorted and do your hair/makeup (once healed) you may be happier.
Quote from: Jaime on April 10, 2012, 09:55:44 AM
My therapist used to complain about all the requirements for bottom surgery being there while surgeries that change so much about how you look to others virtually had none other than having the money to do it. Its easy to see what she meant by it.
I'm all for some rle time before having any surgery at all, just to help someone be sure that living as a woman is what they want/need.
I hope the op finds some peace with their choices soon.
Exactly
Quote from: Stephe on April 10, 2012, 09:20:48 AM
In your earlier post you did.
You said above you feel extensive therapy is needed for GRS and support these gatekeepers. Then also said you feel they should be required for other things as well. Later you are saying; Maybe it would be a good idea for some people? Gatekeeper = everyone has to go through this no matter what.
Do I need to post links to the people who went through these extensive therapies and still regret their choice?? Oh yeah, at least then they can blame the doctors and therapists rather than take responsibility for their own choices.. Maybe even sue them! Oh joy!!
you gotta work on that reading comprehension. Reread my post again or have a friend read it for you. That's all I am saying about that and I'm moving on. No point in bantering back and forth if you don't get what I'm trying to say.
Surgeons tend to believe surgery is solution. Dr. Z really changed my face. I could not enter or exit a foreign country even in boy mode with my passport picture. I like my new face but a nose job and hair transplant would have gotten me to same place and been much cheaper and less painful. It will take a full year for soft tissue to heal. Five months and still do not have full mobility of mouth. Also asked to have saggy part of top reduced and surgeons reduce saggy by enhancing. Second surgery couple weeks after major surgery is illogical.
At least 10% of trans community suffers mild autism. I am in that group. FFS was OCD for me and then sheer panic. It calms down with a little time.
Totally agree with having honest and competent gatekeepers. My recent mentor had a corrupt gatekeeper. It was sad to see a corrupt gatekeeper line his pockets off her suffering and that of other trans people. My gate keeper is very competent and gave me a letter for an orchi after five years on HRT. It was all good and correct decision.
Finally what I learned from my last ordeal was spiritual enlightenment. Our spirit lives forever but our brain and body die. My gender issues are illogical and I am trying to solve with logic. We can not be at peace if we are not ourselves but FFS in itself does not mean peace.
Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 08:03:10 AM
And don't assume just because you didn't need the help, that everyone else is like you.
It is better to err on the side of caution and careful planning than to jump in without advice or counsel.
I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT. What I am saying that there are times when people need guidance and advice and therapists and others are good outlets for that..
Here is the thing... we all warned her to slow down (multiple times in different threads she started here)...
Anddd, she just ignored everything and did it anyway.
Like I said, there are LOTS of choices we make in life... people go to vegas and spend their entire life savings... should we require people see a therapist for months before being able to go into a casino?
But, either way, the OP will adjust to things and be happy after the swelling goes down :P She is just overwhelmed with everything ATM. I get overwhelmed a lot too, and I'm going super slow with only minor changes !
Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 11:20:55 AM
you gotta work on that reading comprehension. Reread my post again or have a friend read it for you. That's all I am saying about that and I'm moving on. No point in bantering back and forth if you don't get what I'm trying to say.
I read exactly what you said. Then you decide to stoop to personal insults.
Maybe you can explain how: this isn't someone saying they are in favor of gatekeepers? If that's not what you are saying, it's what you posted yesterday.
"If Sexual Reassignment surgery and Hormone replacement therapy were to ever require no gateway, then similar things could happen to someone who gets SRS and then realize they are not ready for it. Gateways are there to make sure you know you are ready. Many people do not like gateways because they think it's about people who want to siphon money from you via therapy sessions but, in reality, they are there to make sure you know what you are going through and what is going to happen."
Sigh... Oh, well. I'm sure that when you calm down, you'll either like it or just vaguely regret it, nothing more. It can't be so terrible.
Take your time to reflect upon this. And if you really think this was a big mistake, there's still the possibility of a facial masculinisation surgery. Less popular and probably complicated by the previous procedure, but nevertheless possible. If you had the money to just go for it and get FFS, I guess you can afford this.
And see a therapist or doctor. Decisions made in haste + little thought put into a project + large amounts of money spent with little planning + large amounts of anxiety and regrets afterwards = you need help.
Quote from: A on April 10, 2012, 05:26:13 PM
Sigh... Oh, well. I'm sure that when you calm down, you'll either like it or just vaguely regret it, nothing more. It can't be so terrible.
Take your time to reflect upon this. And if you really think this was a big mistake, there's still the possibility of a facial masculinisation surgery. Less popular and probably complicated by the previous procedure, but nevertheless possible. If you had the money to just go for it and get FFS, I guess you can afford this.
And see a therapist or doctor. Decisions made in haste + little thought put into a project + large amounts of money spent with little planning + large amounts of anxiety and regrets afterwards = you need help.
well since they are so young they could take extra testosterone and look all manly with a grubby beard in no time.. gaggg ,,, thats whats gonna happen anyway...
Sadly, this situation is why it's so hard for transfolks to get approval for hormones, surgery, etc. The anti-trans folks use these cases why trans people aren't legitimate.
I hope once you heal completely, you will be happy with your decision.
Quote from: sonopoly on April 10, 2012, 06:40:35 PM
Sadly, this situation is why it's so hard for transfolks to get approval for hormones, surgery, etc. The anti-trans folks use these cases why trans people aren't legitimate.
I hope once you heal completely, you will be happy with your decision.
This is more or less what I was thinking...
Best wishes :)
Quote from: sonopoly on April 10, 2012, 06:40:35 PM
Sadly, this situation is why it's so hard for transfolks to get approval for hormones, surgery, etc. The anti-trans folks use these cases why trans people aren't legitimate.
I hope once you heal completely, you will be happy with your decision.
Anti-trans folks are probably trans. I believe issue is around binary not Trans.
Trans people that try to be themselves have a lot of courage. No decision is frequently a poor decision. But when we make a decision we frequently need a little time to determine next decision.
Amazon D: I'm pretty sure that a bone that has been shaped by T already then reshaped won't just regrow to its male form endlessly if you give it enough T. I think bones have one male form they can attain, and when that's done, not much more will change, especially if the bones are cut, in which case I don't think they grow like intact bone. It's almost like expecting a cut leg to grow back with growth hormones, unless I'm deeply mistaken.
I haven't had any work done so I don't know anything about what it's like to be on the other side of such a thing or the time it takes to get used to the aftermath. All I know is, since seeing the original post all I care about is if OP is doing better or not. I hope they are.
Hang in there.
give it some time. i agree with others. i know for me it helped to spend the first two weeks at a recovery gouse with others, we had people in dif stages of the healing process. i hated mine at first too you will look better after like 4-6 weeks. im on week 5 i think myself.
I actually believe that most transwomen don't need FFS.
That's said, even those who have had FFS can pass as male. I have seen people have FFS then successfully detransition. It just means that FFS is not as dramatic as people think, especially after all the healing.
This is such a sad situation :(
Pardon my curiosity but do you have any before photos? I can't tell what's been feminised and what's always been that way.
no offence intended!
EDIT: hang on, I'm confused, I snooped your profile for older posts to see if any pics there and in this thread you've posted a lot of pics that you say are before FFS but the first and last are rthe same as the post ffs pics you've posted in this thread? or am I being stupid/blind? :$
oh! unless the pics in this thread are not actually post FFS photos? in which case, do you have any photos showing what do you look like now?
Ummm....these look EXACTLY like the same pictures you posted on February 23.
She is still less than two weeks post FFS so they wouldn't show much beyond a lot of swelling. I honestly think a lot of the problem here is just postoperative depression.
Quote from: Jeneva on April 11, 2012, 08:59:03 AM
She is still less than two weeks post FFS so they wouldn't show much beyond a lot of swelling. I honestly think a lot of the problem here is just postoperative depression.
good point about the swelling actually :embarrassed:
I really thought I was on to something there aswell :P
Quote from: El Capitan on April 11, 2012, 08:27:00 AM
This is such a sad situation :(
Pardon my curiosity but do you have any before photos? I can't tell what's been feminised and what's always been that way.
no offence intended!
EDIT: hang on, I'm confused, I snooped your profile for older posts to see if any pics there and in this thread you've posted a lot of pics that you say are before FFS but the first and last are rthe same as the post ffs pics you've posted in this thread? or am I being stupid/blind? :$
oh! unless the pics in this thread are not actually post FFS photos? in which case, do you have any photos showing what do you look like now?
Those are my before photos. I'm too afraid to post after ones. They told me not to take any pictures for a long time.
I'll try and take a picture from the exact same angle trying to smile the exact same way I did before to see what actually changed.
I would wait
they must of told you after FFS it can take up to one wholel year for the face and features to settle down into its positions
i had very aggressive ffs over 2 year ago and it took mine that long, no to say i was looking a state for a long time that passed fairly quickly
the facial changes though seemed to be different each month, very similar to my srs healing actually.
Everything seemed horrid, messy and a nightmare then suddenly it was all fine and no one sir'd me anymore which suited me fine although suprised me all the same
please be patient and deal with how you feel right now, surgery depression is horrid and makes you think and act differently.
I want to thank everyone that's taken the time to reach out to me and hold my hand.
Its now Day 12 and i'm starting to see a little bit more of the old me each day.
Maybe its a mixture of regret, the realization that i went too far, or maybe it is postoperative depression... i dont know...
The idea that FFS looks more radical than it actually is in the beginning and then it gradually looks more subtle was the goal...
I had a choice of philosophy and in the end I chose the "You want to look like you" philosophy. There was a chaotic period of three months of deliberating over what I wanted to do and i had many alternatives.
1. To do gradual FFS over time. this would have taken longer and involved more thought processes. Logistically it also would have meant making long-distance travel plans. at the time we were so anxious and we thought we were ready.
this is the piece-by-piece approach- Subtle rhinoplasty, just minor tweaking here and there, and as for the great source of unhappiness with my face- my long chin - i had originally considered going to San Francisco, to Dr. Ousterhout, for just a chin procedure, but that procedure cost around $15,000 and I decided that it was probably too much money if Dr. Spiegel could do the same procedure.
I don't know but according to the doctor in Boston, there is very little that can be done with long chins. He had to make an OR decision at the last minute of what to do....
The gradual, piece-by-piece approach was now, looking back on this year, the most sound and safest approach... It would have taken longer, involved getting on a plane probably, involved a lot more paperwork. I may have not been able to do anything for a year, and when you're looking at individual procedures, then you wonder if you need FFS doctors at all for them, that you could possibly just go to a rhinoplasty surgeon and get a little tweak...
2. Do nothing. I was at a place before I went up to Boston where I was unusually very happy with what I was seeing in the mirror. I had just gotten a tanning product that dramatically, at least in my eyes, changed the way I felt about myself. My confidence level was actually rising. My last weeks with the old face, aside from the fact I couldn't see (my eyes since the beginning of the year have been terrible) were not all bad.
So I was at a place that was okay. It wouldn't have killed me to wait. I was on estrogen and gradually the estrogen would have begun to change my face. Even with my long chin (the obsessive Body Dysmorphic feature) it looked much better when I tanned my face. Ironically i still have a chin that i don't like, because we couldn't take off half, so we're reacting to everything the exact same way we did before.
Even when it comes to makeup, my approach has not changed, which may indicate that actually not that much of a change was made.. that it was all subtle enough, that even the face is in essence still the same.
3. Having the FFS.... which was what we did.
btw sorry this is so long
What I've learned:
1. That when we go in for plastic surgery or FFS or any kind of change, it is VERY SERIOUS and you must strongly consider that you might get something new and then wish you had the old one back. This was unheard of before, but now it is all too real of a feeling. I don't know if with time I'll become fully adjusted to what happened....
2. Becoming obsessed about one feature is always unhealthy. For me it was my chin, and becuase of that, we wound up asking for a whole new face, or at least alterations to the old one. It is called Body Dysmorphic Disorder, and it is dangerous. Plastic surgery does not seem like the solution to someone that has traits of BDD.... it might seem that surgery will make all your problems go away, but it is never that easy or that simple.
3. Having surgery hurts. People had said this was painless. Even the doctor did. I don't know what point of reference he was speaking from, but you don't ever listen to the doctor... even the laser hair removal specialists say that their procedures are just "a tingle" or that they are painless. They haven't been through it and most of them are cisgender women who never had the problems we had. It is TEN- TWENTY times more painful to have these procedures done.... so just don't believe everything you hear.... its surgery, its going to hurt. I said I was prepared for the worst but I had no idea what I was getting myself into so I couldn't possibly know what it would feel like...
4. that faces don't really matter. That a transition should be about just LIVING your life as a female... i never got this, i never understood it.... for me it was always, "Well, I'll stay James unless i can be pretty and then I'll become a woman." NO NO NO NO NO NO NO -
Transition and being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with standrads of beauty, with perfection, with glamour.... its about living your life, its about being yourself, and by yourself, I never realized this before, but being yourself does not mean Looking perfectly the way you envisioned your female identity to look like - its a Faceless state of mind... its a conception of a new reality - that you are female, not a drag queen, not a cross-dresser, not ambiguous, not anything else but a woman....
IF YOU BELIEVE IT, OTHER PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT TOO. Its hard for me to understand how I could be a woman without looking like one, or without looking like the fantasy we have in our mind of how we want to look... but the truth and the reality is that eventually, we need to just let go... we need to let go of all of the superificial crap, and allow our spirits to heal, allow our spirit to live....
and you don't need a face to have a spirit. You don't even need to look like a woman to be one. You need to believe it, and once you do, then that's all that matters.
I'll hold your hand anytime, hon! Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: sysm29 on April 11, 2012, 10:01:14 AM
4. that faces don't really matter. That a transition should be about just LIVING your life as a female... i never got this, i never understood it.... for me it was always, "Well, I'll stay James unless i can be pretty and then I'll become a woman." NO NO NO NO NO NO NO -
Transition and being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with standrads of beauty, with perfection, with glamour.... its about living your life, its about being yourself, and by yourself, I never realized this before, but being yourself does not mean Looking perfectly the way you envisioned your female identity to look like - its a Faceless state of mind... its a conception of a new reality - that you are female, not a drag queen, not a cross-dresser, not ambiguous, not anything else but a woman....
IF YOU BELIEVE IT, OTHER PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT TOO. Its hard for me to understand how I could be a woman without looking like one, or without looking like the fantasy we have in our mind of how we want to look... but the truth and the reality is that eventually, we need to just let go... we need to let go of all of the superificial crap, and allow our spirits to heal, allow our spirit to live....
and you don't need a face to have a spirit. You don't even need to look like a woman to be one. You need to believe it, and once you do, then that's all that matters.
Many of us say this, but it is so hard to understand until you achieve that mind-set. Your journey to that point has been unusual but at least you can now see it. You know about the mindset now. You know what we mean.
I suspect that the shock of seeing your new self was upsetting, but now you will get used to it and it will bother you less. Do not judge yourself harshly -
even if was a mistake it is not a bad one and it will probably benefit you in the end. Good can come of this.
Now you can continue your journey, but at a slower pace perhaps. This place helps. I am having a bad time myself at the moment and the people here have rallied round and helped me feel better. I am sure we will do the same for you. This is not a disaster. Learn to accept yourself and forgive yourself. It will come out OK in the end.
Give yourself time.
Quote from: sysm29 on April 11, 2012, 10:01:14 AM
3. Having surgery hurts. People had said this was painless. Even the doctor did. I don't know what point of reference he was speaking from, but you don't ever listen to the doctor... even the laser hair removal specialists say that their procedures are just "a tingle" or that they are painless. They haven't been through it and most of them are cisgender women who never had the problems we had. It is TEN- TWENTY times more painful to have these procedures done.... so just don't believe everything you hear.... its surgery, its going to hurt. I said I was prepared for the worst but I had no idea what I was getting myself into so I couldn't possibly know what it would feel like...
4. that faces don't really matter. That a transition should be about just LIVING your life as a female... i never got this, i never understood it.... for me it was always, "Well, I'll stay James unless i can be pretty and then I'll become a woman." NO NO NO NO NO NO NO -
Transition and being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with standrads of beauty, with perfection, with glamour.... its about living your life, its about being yourself, and by yourself, I never realized this before, but being yourself does not mean Looking perfectly the way you envisioned your female identity to look like - its a Faceless state of mind... its a conception of a new reality - that you are female, not a drag queen, not a cross-dresser, not ambiguous, not anything else but a woman....
IF YOU BELIEVE IT, OTHER PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT TOO. Its hard for me to understand how I could be a woman without looking like one, or without looking like the fantasy we have in our mind of how we want to look... but the truth and the reality is that eventually, we need to just let go... we need to let go of all of the superificial crap, and allow our spirits to heal, allow our spirit to live....
and you don't need a face to have a spirit. You don't even need to look like a woman to be one. You need to believe it, and once you do, then that's all that matters.
Have you talked to the Dr about what level of pain medication he feels is appropriate?
Before I had surgery I found people claiming to wean off the pain meds in a few days. But my nursing support made it clear that was ridiculous and two weeks was a quick time to wean.
Your lesson #4 is worth a lot so perhaps you have gained more than you lost.
Good luck and I hope your recovery finishes quickly and well.
Quote from: sysm29 on April 11, 2012, 10:01:14 AM
Transition and being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with standrads of beauty, with perfection, with glamour.... its about living your life, its about being yourself, and by yourself, I never realized this before, but being yourself does not mean Looking perfectly the way you envisioned your female identity to look like - its a Faceless state of mind... its a conception of a new reality - that you are female, not a drag queen, not a cross-dresser, not ambiguous, not anything else but a woman....
IF YOU BELIEVE IT, OTHER PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT TOO. Its hard for me to understand how I could be a woman without looking like one, or without looking like the fantasy we have in our mind of how we want to look... but the truth and the reality is that eventually, we need to just let go... we need to let go of all of the superificial crap, and allow our spirits to heal, allow our spirit to live....
and you don't need a face to have a spirit. You don't even need to look like a woman to be one. You need to believe it, and once you do, then that's all that matters.
Brilliant. Took me a lifetime to figure that out!
Quote from: sysm29 on April 11, 2012, 10:01:14 AM
Transition and being transgender has absolutely NOTHING to do with standrads of beauty, with perfection, with glamour.... its about living your life, its about being yourself, and by yourself, I never realized this before, but being yourself does not mean Looking perfectly the way you envisioned your female identity to look like - its a Faceless state of mind... its a conception of a new reality - that you are female, not a drag queen, not a cross-dresser, not ambiguous, not anything else but a woman....
IF YOU BELIEVE IT, OTHER PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT TOO. Its hard for me to understand how I could be a woman without looking like one, or without looking like the fantasy we have in our mind of how we want to look... but the truth and the reality is that eventually, we need to just let go... we need to let go of all of the superificial crap, and allow our spirits to heal, allow our spirit to live....
and you don't need a face to have a spirit. You don't even need to look like a woman to be one. You need to believe it, and once you do, then that's all that matters.
I'm glad you understand this now :)
Seriously, you likely just are experiencing post operative depression which is very common and normal. Also even just my fairly simple nose work looked weird for a couple of weeks and even 3 months later there were things I didn't like. 9 months later things have settled down where I don't look much different than before, just a little softer and more proportioned. Accept this choice you made is now history and that things will be just fine after you heal and the swelling goes down.
I am sorry that you feel the way that you do. I have to say that from your photos, you are very attractive, whether you choose to present yourself as male, or female. I tend to agree with many of the other here, that you are likely going through some post op depression. Just try and hang on, it is really only as bad as you make it out to be. You shouldn't second guess yourself, you got the surgery for a reason, and maybe you don't really understand what that reason is right now, but I am convinced that one day you will look into the mirror and realize that you are beautiful after all. Regardless, it isn't whats in the mirror that matters, nor is it others perception of you that determined your worth, true happiness always has, and always will come from within! I am personally looking for a doctor who will perform my surgery. Can I ask the name of your doctor? I know that you don't seem to be very happy right now, but I think he did a wonderful job, and I wouldn't mind consulting with him. For the time being, I will be looking to see what I can find on locateadoc.com (http://www.locateadoc.com/pictures/cosmetic-surgery/tummy-tuck-abdominoplasty.html). I hear that it is a good place to find good doctors, we'll see about that. Best of luck to you!
Quote from: wendy on April 11, 2012, 11:35:24 AM
Brilliant. Took me a lifetime to figure that out!
yes i know now if only i can believe it lol. There's a perfectionist streak in me that has been incredibly damaging to my transition....
It goes back to my obsession over my chin and because of that obsession, we wound up having an operation that in the end never achieved our initial goal of a shorter chin (at least its not apparent that it did that yet).
To this day, I still have a long chin and I'm still not happy about my entire facial symmetry - my face tends towards the long side - its a lean, narrow, long face - while I want a wider face, one thats fuller. Maybe that will come with the estrogen who knows?!
Quote from: sysm29 on April 11, 2012, 06:47:43 PM
It goes back to my obsession over my chin and because of that obsession, we wound up having an operation that in the end never achieved our initial goal of a shorter chin (at least its not apparent that it did that yet).
To this day, I still have a long chin and I'm still not happy about my entire facial symmetry - my face tends towards the long side - its a lean, narrow, long face - while I want a wider face, one thats fuller. Maybe that will come with the estrogen who knows?!
Not to be rude but who is we? Did someone else have surgery with you? lol
Yeah a long face is extremely hard to feminize even with surgery.
Cheer up in 2-3 months you'll look better then before! ;D
How long have you been on HRT?!
Hello. To be honest, I don't even understand how you are coherent enough just 9 days after surgery to make such a long, detailed post. I too saw Dr. Spiegel, and I seem to remember a painkiller-induced type of waking coma that lasted well past the 2 week mark, lol ::)
To address your situation though, you must remember that the face you are looking at now (not even 2 weeks after surgery) is probably very different than the face you will be looking at in 3 months. How that ties in to your reservations about transitioning is up to you to figure out, but you should keep that fact in the forefront of your mind in my opinion.
The pictures of how I looked before surgery, 3 weeks after surgery (I was a monster at that point), 2 months after surgery, etc. can probably still be found in the FFS section somewhere, if you feel like they might help as a kind of reference material.
.
I hope you get better soon!
~~bumpity
Hey Sysm29,
I'm so glad that you posted on this forums as you'd get the support that you need. I personally hope that in a year from now you will be able to look back and laugh, maybe even write a book? Who knows? .... well, you do.
In regards to posts in this thread in relation to 'gate-keepers', personally I find them a god send. I find these compassionate, trained and educated professions are there to 'help' us come to terms with ourselves, and stand strong against the prejudice and discrimination Trans folk may be subjected to along our path in life.
They are trained to helps us with the mental anguish and even disorders we face, picked up during living a life in hiding. I know that may psychiatrist and even my counselor have helped me grow into a more healthy, rounded human being. Something that would not be a given if I just became a woman.
My heart and well wishes, as long with others, will surely carry you during these trying times.
" A friend will pick you up when you fall off your bar stool - A True friend will pass you your beer ...."
Love Jen
OXOXOXO
Quote from: Jenny_B_Good on April 17, 2012, 12:23:01 AM
In regards to posts in this thread in relation to 'gate-keepers', personally I find them a god send. I find these compassionate, trained and educated professions are there to 'help' us come to terms with ourselves, and stand strong against the prejudice and discrimination Trans folk may be subjected to along our path in life.
They are trained to helps us with the mental anguish and even disorders we face, picked up during living a life in hiding. I know that may psychiatrist and even my counselor have helped me grow into a more healthy, rounded human being. Something that would not be a given if I just became a woman.
All the prejudice and discrimination I've been subjected too directly relating to being trans have BEEN from gatekeepers. Because I don't dress like a stereotype and because I'm young they didn't want to help me. So I did it on my own and never regretted a thing. Gatekeepers may help some people, but they should be OPTIONAL.
Trained to help us? Training is a funny word, I can train someone to help fix peoples teeth by bashing them with a hammer, but it doesn't make them a competent dentist. Nor would it if an educational institution trained in such a silly idea.
You value their training? This forum is literally littered with stories of doctors contradicting each other. Just because they speak their rubbish from a position of authority doesn't make it any less rubbish.
Trained professionals used to perform lobotomy's too.
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on April 13, 2012, 03:02:17 AM
Hello. To be honest, I don't even understand how you are coherent enough just 9 days after surgery to make such a long, detailed post. I too saw Dr. Spiegel, and I seem to remember a painkiller-induced type of waking coma that lasted well past the 2 week mark, lol ::)
To address your situation though, you must remember that the face you are looking at now (not even 2 weeks after surgery) is probably very different than the face you will be looking at in 3 months. How that ties in to your reservations about transitioning is up to you to figure out, but you should keep that fact in the forefront of your mind in my opinion.
The pictures of how I looked before surgery, 3 weeks after surgery (I was a monster at that point), 2 months after surgery, etc. can probably still be found in the FFS section somewhere, if you feel like they might help as a kind of reference material.
.
Um, pretty much everything Butterfly says here is where I'm coming from. You really should go into FFS telling yourself "I won't even judge the results even a little bit until it's been 90 days!" Hard, I know, but seriously, soooo much swelling + bruising + stitches, sutures, drug withdrawal, etc. Give yourself some real time, focus on healing. My post-FFS pics are hard to see with all the blood and bruising and stuff, but gradually changes come and time passes. I have a video on youtube that shows my facial transition (it's kinda long but you can skip through it) including the FFS pics to like not quite a year after. It's here if you want to see where I was like 9 days out.
It's here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUBoLekamXc&list=UUClgbMo2KcZF1psv3M-s-yA&index=129&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUBoLekamXc&list=UUClgbMo2KcZF1psv3M-s-yA&index=129&feature=plcp)
Hang in there!
What she said!
She is the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything.
Ask her about Manties.
:)
I am suffering the same regret after ffs and would love to hear from all who have are going through what i am, im now looking into changing my face back and hope u girls can help!
More so than anything FFS, even if you are sure about transition needs to be considered. What works, what doesnt work? Some people only really need a trachea shave to minimize the adams apple and really thats all. The hairless male vs female face is often not all that different.
I would only get FFS on extremely obvious male cues, that I was willing to risk the potential plastic surgury complications. Many woman by default have more masculine cues than you think...
It would be crazy to go out on a whim and do all these radical changes though. Everything in transitional has to be methodical to an extent.
Quote from: jordaan247 on October 17, 2012, 10:50:54 AM
I am suffering the same regret after ffs and would love to hear from all who have are going through what i am, im now looking into changing my face back and hope u girls can help!
You created an account ONLY to say that?
Well if you did ::) ... chances are since you probably had bone shaved from your face, my guess is that it's going to be irreversible. Sorry, you're stuck with a girls face forever! Sucks to be you! .... :P
Quote from: AbraCadabra on October 17, 2012, 11:22:21 AM
It just makes me wonder HOW MUCH and HOW RADICAL any of this FFS has to be to feel this way.
My avatar is 4 weeks post-op... and it is pretty hard for me to relate to some of those negative posts...
Ponderous,
Axélle
Just because it's hard to relate to doesn't mean anything.
Jordaan247 has been a member since April, suggesting the account was created for this reply is.....wrong. Devlyn
Quote from: sysm29 on April 09, 2012, 01:22:35 PM
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(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc7%2F422447_335921859784161_100000990504715_981667_693317013_n.jpg&hash=d8c226fb50a4b18479427d90e39a8e2bbaf982bd)
I can barely think right now....
I had FFS 9 days ago in Boston. I'm not supposed to decide whether to jump off a cliff for another three months. I posted about this a while ago... the post is probably still on here.
At 9 days I've already decided that this is a nightmare. I should have never had FFS. I wasn't ready to transition. I wanted to be James still too much. There are warning signs all along the way.
I never effectively communicated to the surgeon what I wanted. I made the terrible choice of not being aggressive enough in the pre-op meeting to go through the long list of thoughts I had for the doctor. I failed to explain to him fully what I wanted.
This doctor I went to is considered one of the best in the country. He believes he is the best.
What I have is what people call "buyer's remorse." It's one thing when you go out and spend $100 on an outfit that you wound up hating.
Getting a completely new face is another kind of remorse. This is much more serious than anything I've ever done and it has potentially deadly consequences.
I was the wrong candidate for FFS from the very start. I hadn't gone through any proper planning. I simply had the money to do it and I rushed it through with reckless abandon. One procedure that I already don't like, a lip lift, was $4,000 dollars and yet I just added it on as if I was at a grocery store checkout line and I was simply tossing People on top of my groceries... It was done just like that, without any thought of how it would really look.
It seems that I wanted a much more subtle, conservative approach than I thought I wanted.
This experience has been so excruciatingly painful, they tell you "Oh its not painful" but oh it is, you get to the 3rd day and you feel as if 5 days has gone by and you can't believe time is going by so slowly. This is a WRETCHING experience to go through, and you're supposed to be relieved by the initial glances at what you look like. Clearly I am the opposite- I'm mortified at the outcome.
People are telling me not to pull the panic button just yet but its hard not to. I've fully realized this was a mistake.
I had no transition plan. My whole transition has been started up and shut down many times through the years. There was never a concrete plan of how to go forward.
When you have FFS, the goal is to make you instantly pass. My face is said to now be so feminine that I can't pass as James anymore and that terrifies me. I hadn't wanted to pass right away. Even right up until the very end before the opreation, I was under the impression that this was going to create a slightly more feminine looking James, and not this dramatic of a change.
I would instantly reverse it in a heartbeat if I could. I look at my face and see a face that's going to have to need massive amounts of contouring to get it to look somewhat acceptable. It's long, lean, narrow, my jaw is gone (!), my chin's still long, my face shape has been entirely changed which has caused me to panic because its a face that i do not recognize as my own.... its supposed to get better, you're supposed to see more of your old self come back, and James couldn't come back fast enough....
I already mourn the loss of a brother. I loved him and I loved his face. He was beautiful. Why oh God did I have to do this to him? Yeah he wasnt perfect, and he had some very masculine features... but most people didnt think so, people said he was a man with beautiful feminine features- they said he was pretty, i got so many compliments.... why did I have to obsess like this and want to change everything? Why couldn't I have understood that I was so blessed?
Why is it now that after all this has happened, that now I finally realize what i had? You never know how much you love someone until they're gone.
This is a lesson to all of us.... Our male faces are beautiful.... we don't have to lose ourselves to become women.... Many transgender women never get FFS and are very happy..... FFS is not a requirement, its not something you should ever feel forced into or that you have to do in order to pass... there are alternatives....
and for gods sakes when you love your face, for the most part, when you look at yourself in the mirror and like it, DON'T CHANGE IT.... so what? We all have some feature we hate, Transgender women are often misled into thinking just because they have a masculine feature or two that means they can never pass... its simply not true.... We don't have to change EVERYTHING about our faces to be happy.
I was someone that weeks ago hated everything about myself - i hated my nose, for example. Today I am desperate to see my old nose, im panicking because my old nose is gone... I feel as if i've lost myself, my identity, my ethnicity... I said i wanted it to happen, i wished it would happen, i actually said that i hated my italian nose.... but oh GOD how much i miss it....
This operation is supposed to give someone confidence to move forward and step outside and be who they are, but for me its a death sentence... TOO MUCH was changed, my old face, even with its semi-masculine features, was a million times better than this new one....
because I am not ready to transition, not reayd to go outside as a woman, and i had this FFS done, now im in a terrible place - i go outside and God knows what people see now. I've lost all control of my identity .... all I wanted was for James to look a little more feminine (and i thought he looked feminine already), all i wanted was to have better balance, a wider face - and what did i got? an unbalanced, lean, unhealthy, narrow, face.... I allowed them to take away my jaw which I loved, and to give me something thats not even right for my body.... ad
so i guess ill wait and then post again. This will be a series of posts about FFS and the consequences of doing it when its not planned right or when you're not ready for it... . I was so self-conscious and so insecure about myself, and I went to surgery to try and change that... and i wasn't even thinking it through, i wasn't clear-minded when i did this.... it was all a terrible mistake. i Have NO IDEA what im going to do now.
Damn... not to bitch at you but i can't even sympathize. I'm 26 and have been transitioned for 8 years and can only DREAM and OBSESS about FFS. I try to save my money for it anyway, but it seems like at the rate I'm going I may not have FFS until i'm like in my forties... which would be completely useless by then. So it pisses me off the someone like you just had several thousands of dollars lying around and you just jumped up and got FFS on a whim and now you lourn the loss of a male face!? You miss being able to pass as male(?!), suggesting maybe you were not ready?!... But you just had the $$$$ to do it. I don't know.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 17, 2012, 01:48:30 PM
You created an account ONLY to say that?
Well if you did ::) ... chances are since you probably had bone shaved from your face, my guess is that it's going to be irreversible. Sorry, you're stuck with a girls face forever! Sucks to be you! .... :P
I too am recovering from FFS right now. I am day 6 post op. I can totally relate to the fears. It does not matter how much preparation you do or how many consultations you have with the surgeon, nothing truly prepares you for the first few post operative weeks. You don't look in the mirror and think " great I've got a girls face now!" What you see is a swollen, bruised and mutilated version of yourself. This combined with pain meds, lack of sleep, discomfort and difficulty speaking and eating can make for a quite a depressive cocktail indeed.
I posted another thread on this yesterday as I too felt that maybe I had too much done. Only time will tell. I don't regret it.
It's also worth pointing out that any operation, particularly a long one under a full anaesthetic can cause feelings of post-operative depression. Given the initially pretty shocking effects of FFS on anyone's face, no matter how successful the operation eventually proves to be, depressive symptoms are entirely natural ... so they, like the bruises and scars, may well disappear in time.
Face masculinisation is possible, with implants, etc. But it won't ever be as natural as your old face, that's for sure. It's a surgery, after all.
But really, if you're extreme enough to get FFS in a state where you could regret it afterwards, it's your mental health that needs to be dealt with ASAP. I'm not trying to insult you. It's just that if I'm right, you might make more regrettable mistakes like that without really having much control over it in the future. That is, if I'm right and you do have such an issue.
And you should really consider at least looking into it once with a professional, even if you don't want to. Because from what the absolutely-not-an-expert me has seen, disorders that cause impulsivity, such as bipolar disorder, also make many people less able to see the issue in themselves.
Quote from: Carlita on October 18, 2012, 04:26:46 AM
It's also worth pointing out that any operation, particularly a long one under a full anaesthetic can cause feelings of post-operative depression. Given the initially pretty shocking effects of FFS on anyone's face, no matter how successful the operation eventually proves to be, depressive symptoms are entirely natural ... so they, like the bruises and scars, may well disappear in time.
One woman in my group went for FFS, perhaps 7-8 years ago by now. One day she shared some right after surgery pics. All I can say a good reference for the next remake of Frankenstien! Seeing that, plus the effects anethesia can have (sometimes lasting weeks to months) should certainly be factored in when evaluating your state of mind.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 17, 2012, 03:23:06 PM
Jordaan247 has been a member since April, suggesting the account was created for this reply is.....wrong. Devlyn
to play devil's advocate and in defense of Alaina, I can see how and why Alaina would say that.
Quote from: A on October 18, 2012, 06:28:32 PM
And you should really consider at least looking into it once with a professional, even if you don't want to. Because from what the absolutely-not-an-expert me has seen, disorders that cause impulsivity, such as bipolar disorder, also make many people less able to see the issue in themselves.
agreed
I mean I wanted to be impulsive and get the moons and the stars done in a day but I had to take a deep breath, step back, and relax.
I still think FFS is a very dangerous surgury, no matter which angle you look at it. If your doctor fails, you may be stuck with that face.
Even as a girl you may just regret the work they did. If it didn't come out the way you desired.
If the Dr does too good a job your gonna look forever young and out of place in time ..
I wonder what happened to the original poster and what the outcome is a year out. I can remember my first FFS and seeing a face all black and blue in bandages. In fact I was black and blue on my arms, chest, it was crazy. I remember a lot of pain killers and being told they were necessary even though I hate painkillers.
BUT, I do remember seeing my face a few weeks later and recalling the sort of "shock and awe" experience of it all. It really was pretty drastic. For me though it was drastic in a good way, because I was full time and happy. I can remember for a good couple of years afterwards i was a shiny object addict. If it could see my reflection in a surface then I wold stop to check myself out. I settled down after a while of getting used to seeing the new me in the mirror.
In fact I am trying to think of which shock and awe experience affected me the most, seeing my face after FFS or reaching down to feel my crotch after Srs knowing it was finally over. It would be a close call for me to be honest.
Quote from: Rabbit on April 09, 2012, 10:09:44 PM
I started HRT without gatekeeping... and I'll be getting my orchie soon without gatekeeping...
I'm very happy for it also. I don't have issues and am an adult who can make choices.
I think therapy should always be available for those who aren't sure or feel they need help. But, forcing everyone to stop because some people can't take responsibility for their lives is... bad.
We have a great deal of life changing choices to make as we live... should everyone who wants to have a child be forced to see a therapist as well?
I totally agree with you.
May we see a picture of you of how you recoverd, sysm? I would really like to see.
I would like to get my face as female as possible when I get FFS but I am scared I'll end up looking like someone else and not the girl version of myself
I am wondering what happened to this person. I've been thinking about getting ffs for ten years, and recently I have thought I am more than likely going to do this in my life. Reading this is like reading my deepest fears coming true. I am wondering if this person is now living her life and loving it.. Or did she/he ... Die? Where are the pictures?
Has anyone heard from them?