I'm sorry if this is the wrong area, but I'm new to this forum, so please move to the correct area if needed.
A little background information before I jump right into this. I've been questioning nearly everything about myself for years, battling constantly with anxiety and depression, toying with the idea of just ending it all at times (not a sob story I swear!) and began to see my therapist. I'm fairly certain transitioning is the right move for me, and I'm out to around 30 people or so.
I've been seeing my therapist for a while, and she seems to think I'm ready to start HRT, but I still have a lot of questions and concerns (I'm the type of person that requires way too much information before making any decisions). I'm sure there are a lot of questions I'll have down the line, but these are the big ones that I'm kind of fighting with. I'm kind of looking for feedback from anybody that has real world experience, or knows of somebody that has the same experience. I don't have any friends or contacts within the community out here, so I'm kind of going everything alone and figuring it all out as I can.
The first is my career. I've spent a lot of time working in I.T. and I feel like it would be really hard to start a new career after being this far in. Does anybody have any experiences within that field (specifically Network Management) and related Cisco certifications after transitioning? I read somewhere that Cisco works with trans folks fairly well, and since I've already earned certs I'm assuming they'd be transferrable (or at least still applicable using a deadname?
Another concern is related to any laws or protections in place? Like, I know laws say stuff about gender and that stuff, but I'm afraid my management team would try to force me out using hostile tactics or just slowly phasing me out since I'm in a right to work state (Colorado). I did email my HR department anonymously asking about it, and I was assured nothing would happen (and those original emails are saved for proof). Has anybody had any negative experiences along these lines?
A little more info, I live and work in Northern Colorado. I've been with my company for around seven years. Typical start at the bottom and work my way up situation (getting certs, seniority, etc). Failing anything, I also have a Bachelor's that would qualify me to work in I.T. Management somewhere, but I have nearly zero experience in any other field.
tl;dr: Worried about how transitioning would affect my career or get me forced out because I live in a right to work state.
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@kittie.cassieDear KittieCassie: NO WORRIES, your posting in the correct topic area.
I am so very glad that you have become a member here and this is
your very first posting. I am happy to see that you found the Susan's Place Forums.
As you post on the forums you will be able to exchange thoughts and comments with others that are experiencing many of the same things that you are. I expect that you will be getting many members offering their thoughts and suggestions as you continue to post here.
This is the right place for you to be to find out what others may have to say that may have been in your circumstances and with your questions and concerns.
There are a lot of members here that will be able to identify with your situation and as you continue to feel free to share with all of us.
I also want to warmly
WELCOME you to Susan's Place.
You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.
As you are certainly aware you can share with others and involve yourself with some give and take with other like-minded members. When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here if you wish and receive support from others
and offer support to others. ....
***There is a very good chance that you might find that you will
make some new like-minded friends here.
Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace.
I have attached important and informative
LINKS that will help you to navigate around the Forums and will allow you to enjoy the features here.
Please look closely at the
LINKS in RED, answers are there to many questions that new members ask.
Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.
DanielleHere are some links to the site rules and stuff that all new members should be familiar with: Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) | Cautionary Note (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,82221.0.html) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) | Membership Agreement (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,216851.0.html) |
@kittie.cassie Oh, and another thing KittieCassie...
Please plan to write a post and tell us more about yourself in the Introductions Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) so that other members will be aware of your arrival... therefore you will be able to share your thoughts with more members here.
Thank you again for joining Susan's Place and being involved in the Forums here.
Best wishes to you,
DanielleNOTE: Now after all of this Greeting Stuff I will let you have your thread back so you can pursue answers to your questions.
Other members here will certainly be along to give you their comments and suggestions that you may be seeking
Hi Kittie,
I will add more in later, but I am also in IT, though different areas (I lead a large dev org). Short story is the largest raises and bonuses in my career were post transition, and for me it was shocking how fast people adapted and the dead naming stopped. I think IT in particular is more open to people who are not down the middle of "normal" since we place such a high value in creativity and nonconformity to begin with.
I think you will find a surprising number of trans men and women in the IT industry in general.
Quote from: jill610 on February 21, 2019, 04:59:12 PM
Hi Kittie,
I will add more in later, but I am also in IT, though different areas (I lead a large dev org). Short story is the largest raises and bonuses in my career were post transition, and for me it was shocking how fast people adapted and the dead naming stopped. I think IT in particular is more open to people who are not down the middle of "normal" since we place such a high value in creativity and nonconformity to begin with.
I think you will find a surprising number of trans men and women in the IT industry in general.
@kittie.cassie Dear Kittie:The comment reply above by our member
@jill610 is very correct.
Here on the Susan's Place Forums there are many members involved in many levels of the IT field. As you post and comment you will undoubtedly find more them as time goes on.
I am a CPA and have my own business, so "IT" is a necessary thing in my business but I am no expert.
Best wishes to you,
Danielle
Welcome to the forum!
I don't know the laws in your state. I gather that "right to work" actually means "right to fire at will". Still, it would be prudent to research and know exectly what the law says in your state. Sometimes cities have their own workplace laws, so be sure to check them out as well.
More and more companies, especially large national and multinational ones, have internal policies protecting workers' rights above and beyond the minimum required by law. So research your company's policies regarding transgender employees and transitioning in the workplace. Your informal query to HR is a good start, but you want to know exactly what the policies say. Just because the law allows them to fire you doesn't mean that they will. No company wants to have to re-train a new person to fill the role of an experienced employee without a really good reason.
Then, with all that information, you will be in a better position to make an informed decision about transitioning in your current workplace.
Certifications will still be valid after transition. Many institutions will re-issue certificates and diplomas in your new name if you provide them with proof of a legal name change. For any that don't, your old certificate in your old name plus your legal name change documents, together, indicate that you have the qualification. The latter case does involve 'outing' yourself, but you can prove that you are qualified.
My suggestion would be to start researching, so you know what your rights are.
Kittie, hello, I'm in a similar situation as you: I live in Wyoming, also a right to do whatever they like state. I was initially concerned about losing my 6 figure income job, but then I started researching my options and found other companies are willing to have a seasoned professional if they kick me to the curb. My certs are welcome in other organizations (mine are granted by the feds and state)
I have yet to tell my employer but I'm really not that worried to tell you the truth. I was previously self employed and could easily return to creating my own company if desired. If your employer understands your value, I think you have nothing to worry about.
Sophia
FWIW, the first trans person I met was working in I.T. Also, I recently applied for an I.T. position and the person who emailed me back is a trans woman that I've met on a few occasions. When I first met her, she was just transitioning, IIRC. She's since had GCS
Hi Kittie,
While I can't offer you any experiences (I haven't even decided on HRT yet), I do work in IT and have entertained thoughts of what would happen if I came out as trans at my workplace. Like you I live in a state that voted consistently conservative for the past 30 or more years and my workplace is also very socially conservative (like important business meetings start with an invocation, lots of coworkers are heavily involved with churches, etc). I would like to offer you my thoughts here and hope you find them useful.
First of all, I don't think that the fact that you live in a right to work state has much relevance. The way I understand these laws is that they are primarily anti-labor union laws that make it harder for them to collect union dues (see wikipedia). And even if you had a labor union at your workplace, I don't think they would be much of a help for trans issues.
I do think you have a couple of things in your favor:
- We IT folks are generally viewed as geeks and some out of the ordinary behavior is practically expected. We can get away with jeans and T-shirt, long hair, pierced ears, etc, why not also trans?
- We typically do not work in a customer-facing position unless you are an IT consultant. That makes it easier for your employer to accept you as a trans person during the difficult time of transition.
- IT generally has a very diverse workforce due to the influx of the high number of first generation immigrants working in that field (including myself). You meet folks from all sorts of cultural or social backgrounds, why not trans folks too?
- Even when you start on HRT, you don't have to tell them immediately, since it takes time for any effects to show. And even then those can be explained for a while with IT geekiness. Some coworkers might think you are getting weirder by the day, but hey, we are in IT after all!
As far as your Cisco certifications are concerned, I don't think there is anything to worry. At Cisco they want to make money and the more folks are out there who know and promote their products or pay for getting certified, the better they are off, no matter how those folks dress or how they look like.
If you are concerned about getting pushed out of your job, well this can happen. Many companies have anti-discrimination policies on their books, but whether they always live up to their standards needs to be seen. If they absolutely want to get rid of you, they will first look for any pretense to let you go. You can defend against that a bit by making it as hard as possible for them to find any pretense. So make sure to get a stellar performance review before you come out and make sure to follow all policies, like attendance, vacation, illness, leave, dress code, etc strictly down to their letter. Even if things are a bit relaxed right now and you get away with things because nobody is enforcing these policies, as soon as they look, they will have that pretense they are searching for. If you are on-call, make sure to reply promptly. And start putting double effort into your work. It is a sad and unjust truth that we women (cis & trans) are measured by higher standards than men (and trans women even more so) and have to put in more work and produce better results than men for a similar performance rating or similar recognition by our bosses. It is not fair, but this is the world we live in.
Hope that helps,
HM
Working too hard can be dangerous. If you raise the standards for your coworkers that can be a valid reason to get rid of you.
Quote from: Maid Marion on February 22, 2019, 02:38:48 AM
Working too hard can be dangerous. If you raise the standards for your coworkers that can be a valid reason to get rid of you.
Please tell me this was intended to be sarcastic? We should all be raising the bar for ourselves and those around us. Those who don't tend to not have a long tenure on my teams.
No, this is an issue for those who are gifted.
People don't like change. If you start changing things people get nervous. And if you change things a lot people get uncomfortable, very uncomfortable.
A good example is competitions. If you come up with a big innovation it will often get banned. Better to win by just a little, than a lot.
I think getting twice as much work done as anyone else on staff will make you co-workers uncomfortable. Sure, the boss might be happy, but not the folks at your pay grade. The goal should be to maximize the work done by the entire team.
If this helps here's my story:
I worked in IT management in the days leading up to my transition to full time. I worked for a company that made a big deal out of its 100% HRC rating. Later on I determined that the 100% rating means squat. When I came out to them I was fired from my job and walked out into the parking lot. So the very next day I transitioned to full time and moved on with my life. I contacted old bosses and companies to inform them of my name change in the event that I needed to use them as a reference. One old boss who liked me a lot helped me out and gave me a lead that in the end turned out to be a new job, in my new name and new gender. No stories required, no gender change, no past, no nothing. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise and at least my gender transition didn't flame out. Fast forward a few years and here I am finally post-op, everything I wanted to get done was done and now my transition was starting to fade from memory. I changed jobs a few times and eventually not only was I back to where I started off but I had exceeded that.
In the end I managed to overcome my obstacles and secure myself a good spot in life. You can do it as well. It takes effort and resolve but it's not an unsolvable life problem to handle.
Sorry about the delay, work has been keeping me busy.
I went ahead and posted an intro, which I'm really not great at doing, but I did what I could lol.
Quote from: KathyLauren on February 21, 2019, 05:46:25 PM
Welcome to the forum!
I don't know the laws in your state. I gather that "right to work" actually means "right to fire at will". Still, it would be prudent to research and know exectly what the law says in your state. Sometimes cities have their own workplace laws, so be sure to check them out as well.
More and more companies, especially large national and multinational ones, have internal policies protecting workers' rights above and beyond the minimum required by law. So research your company's policies regarding transgender employees and transitioning in the workplace. Your informal query to HR is a good start, but you want to know exactly what the policies say. Just because the law allows them to fire you doesn't mean that they will. No company wants to have to re-train a new person to fill the role of an experienced employee without a really good reason.
Then, with all that information, you will be in a better position to make an informed decision about transitioning in your current workplace.
Certifications will still be valid after transition. Many institutions will re-issue certificates and diplomas in your new name if you provide them with proof of a legal name change. For any that don't, your old certificate in your old name plus your legal name change documents, together, indicate that you have the qualification. The latter case does involve 'outing' yourself, but you can prove that you are qualified.
My suggestion would be to start researching, so you know what your rights are.
My HR said they follow Colorado law (which is where I'm located currently) and gave me a link to what the law says. Apparently it's in the law here that you can't be discriminated against because of tg status. I'm hopeful that's the case, and the only thing I'll have to worry about is the weirdness since I've been there many years and everybody knows me only in boy mode.
Quote from: jill610 on February 22, 2019, 05:19:19 AM
Please tell me this was intended to be sarcastic? We should all be raising the bar for ourselves and those around us. Those who don't tend to not have a long tenure on my teams.
It's a good thing I'm naturally lazy and don't make waves lol! I generally get my projects finished on time, and my most recent review at work had nothing negative.
In the past 3 years I've only called in sick once, no matter how messed up I've been, and when my boss gives me work I just grind it out to get it done. He's never had anything bad to say about me and I've never even been written up.
The only real concern is that he wouldn't understand and would just try forcing me out or something.
Hi,
I am from Philadelphia, which is pretty liberal. My employer is extremely liberal. I was promoted after coming out and transitioning.
I had a few situations that I am glad I had a therapist I could talk to and two "work friends" that are now at arms length. One person said some pretty bad things over the years but I realize it is because he is a bigot and misogynist. In short people are people; however, my employer has been very supportive. In fact they paid for all my MTF procedures minus FFS. I had a lawyer that was going to represent me for FFS reimbursement but I just could not execute what he had planned. We would have been successful but at what cost.
Where I work there are a lot of LGBT. LGBT gravitate toward the sciences and IT. Where I work it is all sciences and IT with support services. So there are a lot of LGBT where I work.
Quote from: Rachel on February 23, 2019, 06:25:00 PM
Hi,
I am from Philadelphia, which is pretty liberal. My employer is extremely liberal. I was promoted after coming out and transitioning.
I had a few situations that I am glad I had a therapist I could talk to and two "work friends" that are now at arms length. One person said some pretty bad things over the years but I realize it is because he is a bigot and misogynist. In short people are people; however, my employer has been very supportive. In fact they paid for all my MTF procedures minus FFS. I had a lawyer that was going to represent me for FFS reimbursement but I just could not execute what he had planned. We would have been successful but at what cost.
Where I work there are a lot of LGBT. LGBT gravitate toward the sciences and IT. Where I work it is all sciences and IT with support services. So there are a lot of LGBT where I work.
I'm pretty confident that there isn't a huge LGBT crowd at the company I work for. I was told there were a couple of people that transitioned while they worked there, but since I don't really know anybody in the office (I'm locked in a room where I.T. people are haha) I never got a chance to know them or anything like that. I also don't really know anybody in the community here in Colorado, so there isn't anybody I can talk to in person about it.
I'm curious. Do any of your coworkers suspect you're TG, by either hearsay or your outward appearance? They may be more accepting if they kind of think of you that way already, and still respect you.
Just a thought.
I work (in the UK) in IT for a major pharmaceutical business. I transitioned on the job almost two years ago, and have since both applied and got internal role vacancies. The wonderful thing about the tech/science industry is that if you've got the skills, people genuinely don't seem to care about your gender. I've travelled internationally, and been to and spoken at many conferences, without a single issue.
Transition is a personal matter, do it if it's the right thing for you, not others.
Do remember that while it may seem like a two-sided coin, the huge non-binary reality in the middle also exists. If you feel you wish to proceed, just take one step at a time until you find what works for you.
Good luck. [emoji846]
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
Quote from: Megan. on March 06, 2019, 01:13:42 AM
people genuinely don't seem to care about your gender.
This ^^
How you handle yourself is the biggest factor in how you will be treated, short of working with or for a truly bigoted person, especially in a niche or white collar job. The cost to source a position is high.
I have seen a LOT of people become very defensive, inflexible and lose their sense of humor. That's what will get you fired. Just be you and you'll be fine, in the US anyways.
Just keep doing your job objectively well, to the best of your abilities.
Quote from: Maid Marion on February 22, 2019, 06:18:09 AM
No, this is an issue for those who are gifted.
People don't like change. If you start changing things people get nervous. And if you change things a lot people get uncomfortable, very uncomfortable.
A good example is competitions. If you come up with a big innovation it will often get banned. Better to win by just a little, than a lot.
I think getting twice as much work done as anyone else on staff will make you co-workers uncomfortable. Sure, the boss might be happy, but not the folks at your pay grade. The goal should be to maximize the work done by the entire team.
Just because everyone around you settles for mediocrity doesn't mean you should. Who cares what your peers think, if you are twice as good, then let them be the ones to suffer by under performance.
Big innovations don't often get banned, that's a pretty defeatist view of the world. Yes occasionally something does if it appears to threaten a core societal value or be dangerous but those are far in between.
I think for many of us it is better to compromise and use those talents in a less threatening manner.
The world of work is just one part of our lives. And for most of us, something that is interchangeable whether we like it or not. Gone are the days in which you could work at Sears or Woolworth all your lives.
Yes, you can certainly find an ally for great ideas who will protect you while you work at full speed. But, don't expect a manager to take you along when she gets promoted. :o
Quote from: Maid Marion on March 06, 2019, 05:30:42 AM
Gone are the days in which you could work at Sears or Woolworth all your lives.
Isn't that the truth sister! I know like 2 people who have worked the same job over 30 years. Besides they might tear down the Sears you wanted to work all your career, just look at Woolworth!
Quote from: Sophiaprincess2019 on March 06, 2019, 09:33:04 AM
Isn't that the truth sister! I know like 2 people who have worked the same job over 30 years. Besides they might tear down the Sears you wanted to work all your career, just look at Woolworth!
And now you know 3 who worked that long for the same company, in increasing job responsibilities!
I retired from them after 36 years! Never planed to be there that long, but work was fun, the company was good and fair, and one year added to the next!
And my employer is growing, and is one of the companies that is a base for the Dow Jones figures, and among the Fortune 25.
Big companies can be good companies and good employers!
Quote from: Dietlind on March 06, 2019, 01:20:38 PM
And now you know 3 who worked that long for the same company, in increasing job responsibilities!
I retired from them after 36 years!
WHAT???....36 years, how can that be? you barely look 36 years old!....You are doing great!
Hugs....
Sophia
Quote from: JamiLD on March 06, 2019, 12:52:13 AM
I'm curious. Do any of your coworkers suspect you're TG, by either hearsay or your outward appearance? They may be more accepting if they kind of think of you that way already, and still respect you.
Just a thought.
I've actually legitimately told two people where I work. One of them seems just kind of ok with it, and he's been my best friend for several years. The other is really ok with it, and she's always ok with talking about it.
I think one other person is kind of questioning it, but that's just what I've heard.
Quote from: Megan. on March 06, 2019, 01:13:42 AM
I work (in the UK) in IT for a major pharmaceutical business. I transitioned on the job almost two years ago, and have since both applied and got internal role vacancies. The wonderful thing about the tech/science industry is that if you've got the skills, people genuinely don't seem to care about your gender. I've travelled internationally, and been to and spoken at many conferences, without a single issue.
Transition is a personal matter, do it if it's the right thing for you, not others.
Do remember that while it may seem like a two-sided coin, the huge non-binary reality in the middle also exists. If you feel you wish to proceed, just take one step at a time until you find what works for you.
Good luck. [emoji846]
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
I'm pretty sure just staying in the middle won't work for me. I'm hoping it works out as well for me, that would simply be amazing!
However, I think I'm going to use my current job to start and once everything is out I plan on moving to Arizona (Phoenix area) and find a job there. That way, everybody just knows me as a girl and not knowing me in boy mode. I figure it will probably be easier that way. I'll just have to deal with the awkwardness where I'm at now since everybody has only known boy me.
Quote from: jill610 on March 06, 2019, 03:29:24 AM
This ^^
How you handle yourself is the biggest factor in how you will be treated, short of working with or for a truly bigoted person, especially in a niche or white collar job. The cost to source a position is high.
I have seen a LOT of people become very defensive, inflexible and lose their sense of humor. That's what will get you fired. Just be you and you'll be fine, in the US anyways.
Just keep doing your job objectively well, to the best of your abilities.
I think my plan of action is to not make a huge deal of transitioning. I have the advantage of being fairly chill. I'll just do my thing and if people question anything I'll tell them. I feel like a slow and methodical approach would be the best, rather than making a huge spectacle of it.
Quote from: Sophiaprincess2019 on March 07, 2019, 07:04:00 PM
WHAT???....36 years, how can that be? you barely look 36 years old!....You are doing great!
Hugs....
Sophia
Thank you! That picture was taken after real good makeup with contouring. I look about 20 to 25 years younger than my biological age, because I never got adult skin (them intersex babies again). I will be 76 years old very soon now!
I recently interviewed for a new position and told them I was transitioning during the interview process. I was embraced for being brave and welcomed with open arms. Much to my surprise HR called yesterday and said they are moving forward with an offer later this week after references have been contacted. I've found being open right from the beginning was the best route for me work wise.
Sophia
Quote from: Sophiaprincess2019 on March 20, 2019, 06:34:57 AM
I recently interviewed for a new position and told them I was transitioning during the interview process. I was embraced for being brave and welcomed with open arms. Much to my surprise HR called yesterday and said they are moving forward with an offer later this week after references have been contacted. I've found being open right from the beginning was the best route for me work wise.
Sophia
Congratulations! I am so happy for you that everything worked out and that you seem to have found a really cool employer!
HM
Quote from: Sophiaprincess2019 on March 20, 2019, 06:34:57 AM
I recently interviewed for a new position and told them I was transitioning during the interview process. I was embraced for being brave and welcomed with open arms. Much to my surprise HR called yesterday and said they are moving forward with an offer later this week after references have been contacted. I've found being open right from the beginning was the best route for me work wise.
Sophia
Way to go !!
C -
Quote from: kittie.cassie on February 21, 2019, 04:44:38 PM
I read somewhere that Cisco works with trans folks fairly well, and since I've already earned certs I'm assuming they'd be transferrable (or at least still applicable using a deadname?
Another concern is related to any laws or protections in place? Like, I know laws say stuff about gender and that stuff, but I'm afraid my management team would try to force me out using hostile tactics or just slowly phasing me out since I'm in a right to work state (Colorado). I did email my HR department anonymously asking about it, and I was assured nothing would happen (and those original emails are saved for proof). Has anybody had any negative experiences along these lines?
As Mentioned a lot of transgender people are in IT.
You can have your name changed on your certificates. I just sent them my updated ID's with a copy of my current certs.
I have had all of my education background updated that is on file. From high school to college to my IT certs.
The company I work for has very strict transgender policies. The company is a very well known large global IT company. The company is very progressive.
A employee can not even disclose to another that I am transgender if they know or think they know. However they can only enforce their policies as much as the country or state allows. The state my office is in does have discrimination protections. The offices in Missouri is in a state that does not have discrimination protections. Company policies do apply in the Missouri office though.
I wish you all the best in your IT transition!