TW=Trigger warning, Ive always found this topic to be a very sad one or very uncomfortable for many people
But the thing is, Ive heard this as a topic to argue that these were mental illnesses,
Basically, the claim is that as children (or adults) people ended up in improper sexual situations with another person, which made them grow up as they were. This is the case for some cases where some people happen to be gay/trans and have that happen to them, a popular one being Chaz, and a less popular one being a gay kid Ive heard share his story of his experiences...
It makes me feel awful and hurt that people would use people's hardest experiences to justify their status as mentally ill from trauma, it always just seemed really low to me.
I, for one, havent had any particular issues with childhood sexual trauma, nor have a lot of other people I know. Nor have people who HAVE had those abuses enacted on them grown up to be gay/trans, I think
...oh, another one that bugs me "Divorce rates among same sex couples are high"
And heterosexual ones are not?
I questioned my gender at 4 years old. There were no sexual situations involved. Heck, at that age I didn't even know girls were different "down there".
No childhood sexual abuse here either. Some of my earliest memories involved gender problems going back to 3-4 years old as well. I'm know there are LGBT(and all the other letters that I can't remember) folks who have been sexually abused, but considering how many there are that haven't I don't buy the LGBT=sexually abused line for a moment.
My father is a huge believer in (his words) "homos are just pretending to play house, that's why they don't stay together" but I shut him down pretty quick by pointing out that he has chalked up three divorces.
It's always interesting to see where the sources of these "studies" or "articles" spawn from. It's often quite easy to see their agenda. So much of this stuff is from prurient overly conservative group sponsorship and is generally replete of accepted legitimate scientific controls. It makes it easy to discount it all as the nonsense it is.
My first therapist started with this crap.
I never went back.
First person I fell in love with was a girl. I was 11 years old. I told her. It ruined our friendship. I knew I was a boy and lived as a boy until my chest started growing. I have no sexual abuse history. Physical abuse yes. A lot. But the beating can't make me more or less transgender.
Hogwash!
This sounds like it came from someone without any understanding of the subject. There are too many studies that show otherwise.
I too have to say I do not fit this theory either. I started experimenting with girl clothes when I was in elementary school.
Hugs,
Jeanette
Quote from: Denise on February 16, 2017, 08:05:48 AM
I questioned my gender at 4 years old. There were no sexual situations involved. Heck, at that age I didn't even know girls were different "down there".
+1, but I was 5 :)
I experienced no sexual abuse and still had childhood gender dysphoria of the body. So I don't buy it.
For some people it does affect them, though. Friend of mine was molested by his mother as a child and has stayed away from women ever since. A different friend has a very difficult mother he had to care for and also stays away from women. I'm not sure they are gay rather than bi but they seem to have been influenced by their childhoods/traumas and experiences with mother figures. In the end though their dating habits and their sexual orientation may well be two different things.
No abuse, except the 5,000 times more estrogen than in a birth control pill DES, my mother was probably prescribed while I was in the womb. I say probably because there is no records but there is much historical precedent to think so. And while I was abused by Denver Dayton in Boy Scouts, I had already been crossdressing privately for 6 years. Because o my body parts and the thinking of the time I kept it in the closet and suffered for it. I married my longtime sweetheart and we lasted only two years because she found out. I remarried to my present wife of 34 years. It was because I told her early on. But my reckoning came when I started having a breakdown as I could no longer keep my anger and sense of self private, and I finally revealed myself to all. Now six months into HRT, my mind is at ease for actually the first time in my life.
QuoteBasically, the claim is that as children (or adults) people ended up in improper sexual situations with another person, which made them grow up as they were. This is the case for some cases where some people happen to be gay/trans and have that happen to them, a popular one being Chaz, and a less popular one being a gay kid Ive heard share his story of his experiences...
This has been demonstrated to be false.
Children born intersex, with symptoms such an enlarged clitoris and fused labia misidentified as male, a small penis and unfused scrotum, misidentified as female, cloacal exstrophy, have received 'corrective' surgery, generally before age 6 months, and were raised in the 'corrected' gender. Somewhere around 10-15% were incorrectly identified based on external genetalia, and received 'corrective' surgery to the genitalia to place the child in a gender other than their internal biological gender.
Oops.
Doctors such as Dr. John Money insisted that gender identification was 'merely' a product of upbringing, and as such, correcting the appearance of genetalia and rearing the child in the target gender should result in a normal, well-adjusted child in that gender.
Oops again.
This turns out not to be the case. There appears to be an intrinsic gender identification in each individual that is not affected by reconstructive surgery or by child-rearing practices. Sexual abuse or upbringing do not appear to affect this intrinsic gender identification.
Some people still cling to the mythos, as it provides a comforting rationale, a way to assign 'blame' for what they perceive as a sinful or imperfect state in a person, rather than having to accept that this is simply the way some of us are wired. That perpetuates the social damage associated with being transgender, unfortunately, allowing us to be viewed as 'damaged goods' rather than human beings.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2004/06/the_cutting_edge.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2004/06/the_cutting_edge.html)
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/12935/title/Reevaluating-Sex-Reassignment/ (http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/12935/title/Reevaluating-Sex-Reassignment/)
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1998-pediatric-ethics.html (http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1998-pediatric-ethics.html)
There is in fact more to us than a Phall-O-Meter reading. (An actual thing!)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Phall-O-meter%27%2C_Intersex_Society_of_North_Wellcome_L0031936.jpg)
I didn't have any kind of sexual trauma until after I already knew I was trans. I know a few trans people who were abused or sexually abused as children, but of all the trans people I know, those I can count on one hand. I don't think you could draw any kind of statistically significant data from it.
Quote from: JeanetteLW on February 16, 2017, 11:10:15 AM
Hogwash!
This sounds like it came from someone without any understanding of the subject. There are too many studies that show otherwise.
I too have to say I do not fit this theory either. I started experimenting with girl clothes when I was in elementary school.
Hugs,
Jeanette
Same here. That sounds like your typical BS to me.
I am a 65 year old virgin and I am still waiting for the first improper or any sexual experience that made me transsexual. I know my gender identity was set well before my teens even though I didn't feel it until I was 13. That idea is outdated and totally false.
Quote from: Dena on February 16, 2017, 03:11:51 PM
I am a 65 year old virgin and I am still waiting for the first improper or any sexual experience that made me transsexual. I know my gender identity was set well before my teens even though I didn't feel it until I was 13. That idea is outdated and totally false.
Hee, hee! My first thought on reading this was that you were waiting for an improper sexual experience!
Yes, please!
Yeah, I didn't have any improper sexual experiences til well after I thought I should be a girl. That happened around age 6, playing dress up with the girls up the street. Bad stuff didn't happen to me til I was around 12, much much later.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Do you remember, "Gay marriage will hurt the institution of marriage." Gay marriage is gonna cause straight marriages to fail? Really? Now my existence, my human rights as a trans person, violate someone else's religious freedom. Are we really surprised that we would be deemed mentally ill by those who hate anything different than their values? You know, I hear that left handed people masturbate with their left hand. They surely must be deviants. Maybe we need water fountains for left handed folks and separate ones for the normal, right handed people. Lunacy, it's pure lunacy!
Monica
Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on February 16, 2017, 07:48:26 AM
TW=Trigger warning, Ive always found this topic to be a very sad one or very uncomfortable for many people
But the thing is, Ive heard this as a topic to argue that these were mental illnesses,
Basically, the claim is that as children (or adults) people ended up in improper sexual situations with another person, which made them grow up as they were. This is the case for some cases where some people happen to be gay/trans and have that happen to them, a popular one being Chaz, and a less popular one being a gay kid Ive heard share his story of his experiences...
It makes me feel awful and hurt that people would use people's hardest experiences to justify their status as mentally ill from trauma, it always just seemed really low to me.
I, for one, havent had any particular issues with childhood sexual trauma, nor have a lot of other people I know. Nor have people who HAVE had those abuses enacted on them grown up to be gay/trans, I think
...oh, another one that bugs me "Divorce rates among same sex couples are high"
And heterosexual ones are not?
Nonsense! I've never had a sexual experience in my 22 years of life but here I am....transgender.
Let's see. I figured out I was trans when I was around 11. I didn't have any halfway sexual experiences until 5 years later. I didn't have an all the way experience until 8 or 9 years later. I was never sexually abused either. This theory fails.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
I was abused sexually by a peer at 15 years old.
It makes me feel really terrible that I seem to fit that assertion.
Of course those people will happily ignore the fact that I've been devastated by my envy of women since I was 10.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That was actually kind of a prevailing attitude when I was growing up. I remember reading the encyclopia entry for homosexuality in my local library when I was young. It was a fairly lengthy entry and the main thesis of the encyclopedia article was as follows: homosexual males are the way they are because they are the product of weak fathers and strong mothers. It made sense to me at the time because it perfectly described my parents' marital dynamic and gave support to my inner feelings of shame about my same sex attraction orientation. Later, as part of my coming out process, I learned what utter hogwash it all was. It did serve, however, to make me aware of how stupid a lot of supposed scholars are tho.
I was sexually abused by a peer and physically and mentally abused in my home. The sexual abuse occurred starting when I was 10 the other thing that started then was drug use. My therapist went through my history with me and all the way back to before kindergarten there are pictures of me only with other girls. Playing dolls and playing house and while again these can be stereotypes they can also be an indication. According to my therapy the signs were always there but the abuse and subsequent drug use I used to black out a huge portion of my life and puberty my transness was also blacked out and was not rediscovered untill my 30s. So nope being abused that way didn't make me anything. Except stronger you can't be anything but strong after being so broken and then putting yourself back together.
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I always thought i was wrong from the start. There was nothing improper in my childhood.
Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk
(The only girl alter of a Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological abuse chiming in)
Although childhood sexual abuse (CSA) will not "make" a person gay or transgender, it often leaves the victim with severe gender and sexual confusion that can easily be mistaken for being gay or transgender. With it being three times more likely that a person was sexually abused as a child than them being gay or transgender, it is the go to diagnosis until it can be proven otherwise (Approximately 10% of the population experience CSA, compared to 2.5% who self-identify as gay or bisexual and another 0.3% who are transgender).
It can take a significant amount of therapy for a CSA survivor to admit to themself that the sexual abuse they suffered as a child is the cause of their gender or sexual confusion. In my case my Primary (a guy) was in therapy for 2 1/2 years until the time loss and flashbacks began and the doctors realized he wasn't transsexual and had Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder because of childhood trauma. The confusion can begin at a early age if the abuse occurs at critical stages in a child's development of gender and sexuality. Primary (the dominant alter if my System; he as guy) had memories of cross dressing before he was even in grade school, but it was really just me being me. Neither of us is gay or transgender. It makes it really tough to sort out the extremely small number of CSA survivors who are actually gay or transgender.
And, of course, the topic begs the question, What are the proper sexual experiences for children??
It is perfectly obvious that we live in a sex saturated culture in terms of attention grabbers, sales promotions and the hyper-titilated world of social media. Conversely absent from our culture are positive and naturalistic depictions of whatever might serve as loving and intimate relationships. Family planning and sex education are under constant attack while ignorance and abstinence programs fail the test. What tools does a parent have? How do we prepare our youth for loving vs exploitive relationships?
Children are natural explorers and we leave them to the internet to find out???? Seems a recipe for exploitive behaviors is currently perpetuated?
Consistently crossdressing since 1976, when I was 4 1/2 years-old, with spontaneous evolution towards awareness of gender dysphoria and recent decision to transition. Absolutely no history of improper sexual situation with another person or any other form of abuse.
The claims you mention are baseless and simply a reflection of other hidden agendas. Best defense: undogmatic education.
Hugs, Sarah
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I am another case of "knew from 4 or 5" with no history of any untoward sexual causation. I was not abused sexually, though I did suffer from mental and emotional abuse through my dad's behavior towards my propensity to be a bit feminine.
My experimentation in to gender role melding did not involve any sexual activity either, so nothing there. Just started to examine and follow my own heart so that I could cope with being me.
I have heard the theory that we as trans folk are primarily created through our environmental situation, but that is a theory that was dispelled decades ago. Those people that site it any longer are just agenda driven people who need the excuse to justify a much larger picture (usually religious in nature) that they believe in.
Quote from: flytrap on February 17, 2017, 11:59:09 AM
(The only girl alter of a Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological abuse chiming in)
Although childhood sexual abuse (CSA) will not "make" a person gay or transgender, it often leaves the victim with severe gender and sexual confusion that can easily be mistaken for being gay or transgender. With it being three times more likely that a person was sexually abused as a child than them being gay or transgender, it is the go to diagnosis until it can be proven otherwise (Approximately 10% of the population experience CSA, compared to 2.5% who self-identify as gay or bisexual and another 0.3% who are transgender).
It can take a significant amount of therapy for a CSA survivor to admit to themself that the sexual abuse they suffered as a child is the cause of their gender or sexual confusion. In my case my Primary (a guy) was in therapy for 2 1/2 years until the time loss and flashbacks began and the doctors realized he wasn't transsexual and had Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder because of childhood trauma. The confusion can begin at a early age if the abuse occurs at critical stages in a child's development of gender and sexuality. Primary (the dominant alter if my System; he as guy) had memories of cross dressing before he was even in grade school, but it was really just me being me. Neither of us is gay or transgender. It makes it really tough to sort out the extremely small number of CSA survivors who are actually gay or transgender.
I'm sorry to hear that,
But hey, thank you for that input, I appreciate that side of it. Im curious if most therapists look to possible CSA as a possible determining factor in deciding whether the child's sexuality or gender is not just confusion based on trauma or if it's the child's nature, rather than using CSA as an excuse to waive off their feelings as just a traumatic event and shut their feelings down. I'm sure once they look into that factor both they and the patient can determine the best course of action.
Im definitely curious about those statistics, thats very interesting, do you have any source on it? If not thats fine but I will look into that myself
With homosexuality and transgenderism being so rare compared to other conditions that cause sexuality/gender confusion, it seems like this would be one of the primary reasons for the WPATH requirements for therapy?!?
My experience has been exact opposite of your concerns. Of the five doctors and psychologists who have treated me over the last 8 years, only one did not accept my understanding of self as reality- my Gender Therapist. Despite my guy alter's refusal that transition was not right for him, she insisted he was a transsexual in denial. There are always exceptions, but therapy play a really important role in easing transition and in preventing a failed one.
For obvious reasons the percentages for these groups are probably low, but here are the most recent verifiable statistics I could find:
(Over CSA statistics of 20.9% of population)
"Research conducted by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that approximately 1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls are sexually abused before the age of 18."
U.S. Department of Justice National Sex Offender Public Website
https://www.nsopw.gov/en-US/Education/FactsStatistics
(Overall gay/transgender statistics of 3.0% of population)
"Among U.S. adults aged 18 and over, 97.7% identified as straight, 1.6% as gay or lesbian, and 0.7% as bisexual"
Sexual Orientation and Health Among U.S Adults, National Health Statistics Reports, Number 77, Jul 15, 2014. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr077.pdf
"0.6% of adults, about 1.4 million, identify as transgender in the United States."
"How many adults identity as Transgender in the United States?" Williams Institute, April 2016.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf
Using these statistics, it is seven times more likely a person is suffering from the results of childhood sexual abuse than they are gay/transgender.
Exactly, if abuse caused transsexuality the numbers of transsexuals recorded for treatment you would think would be much greater since child abuse isn't the rarest thing to happen to people.
Well as far as the "mental illness" argument goes, that's pure horse hockey! Here are some scientific studies. The problem has been psychologists like to theorize about people's mental states. They often have no idea what real scientific research has done in the medical field.
General Male Female Brain Differences
Gorski, Gordon, Shrayne, Southham 1978
Medial proptic nucleas (MPON)
Allen, Hines, Shrayne, Gorski 1989
Hypothalamus regions
INAH3 2.8 times larger in men
INAH2 2 times larger in men
Regions known to influence:
gonotropin secretion,
maternal behavior in females,
sexual behavior in mammals
Allen 1989: associated area with sexual functions
LeVay 1991: associated area with sexual orientation
Allen, Gorski 1991
Shape of splenium of corpus callosum
Massa intermedia 53% larger in women
Anterior commissure 12% larger in women
Hoffman, Swaab
Preoptic anterior region of hypothalamus different between male and female
volume,
number cells,
neural structure
Transgender Involved or Related Studies
Garcia, Falgueras, Swaab 2008 hypothalamus
Region INAH3 volume and number of neurons in trans person matches the identified gender.
Zhou, Hoffman, Gooren, Swaab 1995 hypothalamus
Region BSTc volume and number cells in trans person matches the identified gender
Kruijver 2000 hypothalamus
Region BSTc number neurons in trans person matches the identified gender
Yokota, Kawamura, Kameya 2005
Corpus callosum: claim to be able to make clinical diagnosis based on size
Rametti, Carrillo, Gomez-Gil, Junque 2011
White Matter microstructures in transwomen similar to cis women
Simon, Kozak, Simon 2013
Grey Matter cerebellum, left angular gyrus, left inferior parietal lobe match identified gender
Zubiarre, Elorza 2013
Transwomen: feminization regions of right hemisphere
Transmen: substantial subcortal masculinization
Luders 2012
Cortical thickness of transwomen similar to ciswomen and greater than cismen.
Left hemisphere: frontal, orbitao-frontal lobe, central sulcus, perisylvian region, paracental cortex
Right hemisphere: pre/post central gyrus, parietal cortex, temporal cortex, precuneus, fusiform
Lingual, orbito-frontal gyrus
Other studies:
Govier, Diamond, Wolowiec, Slade 2010
Hearing response to particular sounds, trans people reacted similar to identified gender
Berglund, Lindstrom, Dheine-Helmy, Savic 2008
Smell: response to a particular scent, trans people reacted similar to identified gender (active brain scan)
Autoszewski, Zadzinski, Foczpanski 2009
Teeth: transgender tooth pattern difference (has something to do with the front teeth but one study of dentists could only identify male, female teeth accurately 50% of the time. The other 50% of the samples were ambiguous and no correct ID trend was found)
Behavioral Studies:
Bao, Swaab 2011
Showed rearing could not override inborn gender identity
Mathews, Fane, Conway, Brook, Hines 2009
Nordenstrm, Servin, Bohlin, Larsson, Wedell 2002
Both studies found prenatal androgen levels significantly effects play behavior and personality characteristics
Quote from: Kylo on February 19, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
if abuse caused transsexuality the numbers of transsexuals recorded for treatment you would think would be much greater since child abuse isn't the rarest thing to happen to people.
Exactly!!!
I had a very happy childhood, with fond memories of being kicked out of my sister's bedroom while trying to play with her Barbies...
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 16, 2017, 12:33:36 PM
Some people still cling to the mythos, as it provides a comforting rationale, a way to assign 'blame' for what they perceive as a sinful or imperfect state in a person, rather than having to accept that this is simply the way some of us are wired. That perpetuates the social damage associated with being transgender, unfortunately, allowing us to be viewed as 'damaged goods' rather than human beings.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2004/06/the_cutting_edge.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2004/06/the_cutting_edge.html)
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/12935/title/Reevaluating-Sex-Reassignment/ (http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/12935/title/Reevaluating-Sex-Reassignment/)
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1998-pediatric-ethics.html (http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1998-pediatric-ethics.html)
There is in fact more to us than a Phall-O-Meter reading. (An actual thing!)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Phall-O-meter%27%2C_Intersex_Society_of_North_Wellcome_L0031936.jpg)
Yup you got that right Michelle. Alot of my family either believed this non sense or still does. I was abused, phyisically, mentally and in a case with an older cousin sexually. However, i experienced wantings to be the female gender even before the sexual abuse happened so i can rule without question that particualr abuse would have had no impact on me. But i had others abuses by some male members within my family and the ones who do not approve of my transition like to place blame on them for me beign a girl. See to them, or atleast most of those ones they would rather beleive, and have me beleive i am an emotionally unstable, stupid, confused, truama laden man who is basically damaged good (unless i work my arse off to become the most succseful man ever and love every thing male i have left and work on getting back every male i shredded off) then swallow their pride and be happy that i am blossoming into the woman i always should have been from the start! The thing they also should know is that when they keep using my past truamas agaisnt me it doesnt make me want to try and give manhood another chance (even though i went down that road before and suffered alot) or think ''hmmm if i do x,y and z i can become this man everyone else wants'', quite the opposite. It makes me resent being born male even more as know i am feeling smothered and being pushed ,once again into the mans world.
It would be laughable if a significant swath of people did not believe that junk. It's a convenient explanation for people that see anything outside of a traditional heteronormative life as "bad". Some bunk sort of science sounding thing to grab ahold of.
The reason they cite "improper sexual experiences" is because they are so universal and the label is fuzzy grey to begin with. What about all the hetero people that experienced such things?
They have to believe this or some other equally ridiculous explanation because the truth that people are born with this clashes with their creation mythos and to admit that is false undermines all their other beliefs.
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Without getting to personal about this I have been sexually abused by the person I trusted most for more then 5 years, and started when I turned 18. I knew when I was a child I wasn't the same as other boys and often expressed my true side (until a series of things stopped me and I buried it for years).
When I was doing what I had to I often wished during and after that I could get rid of my appendage. Yet, my feelings of being different started from when I was a child. So, in answer to your question I don't think its the abuse that causes someone to be LGBT but could cause them to question themselves and therefore bring realisations about their true self which they could have buried for years like it did for me.
I'm not saying what I experienced caused me to be trans (nor would it for other's) but did make me question a lot of things which in turn lead me to rediscovering my true self, so perhaps it does also for others.
Quote from: flytrap on February 17, 2017, 11:59:09 AM
(The only girl alter of a Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological abuse chiming in)
Although childhood sexual abuse (CSA) will not "make" a person gay or transgender, it often leaves the victim with severe gender and sexual confusion that can easily be mistaken for being gay or transgender. With it being three times more likely that a person was sexually abused as a child than them being gay or transgender, it is the go to diagnosis until it can be proven otherwise (Approximately 10% of the population experience CSA, compared to 2.5% who self-identify as gay or bisexual and another 0.3% who are transgender).
It can take a significant amount of therapy for a CSA survivor to admit to themself that the sexual abuse they suffered as a child is the cause of their gender or sexual confusion. In my case my Primary (a guy) was in therapy for 2 1/2 years until the time loss and flashbacks began and the doctors realized he wasn't transsexual and had Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder because of childhood trauma. The confusion can begin at a early age if the abuse occurs at critical stages in a child's development of gender and sexuality. Primary (the dominant alter if my System; he as guy) had memories of cross dressing before he was even in grade school, but it was really just me being me. Neither of us is gay or transgender. It makes it really tough to sort out the extremely small number of CSA survivors who are actually gay or transgender.
(Triggering stuff: mental health + hospitalization).
Firstly, I'd like to start by saying that I'm sorry you've had those experiences. I myself am a victim of trauma, multiple and too much to list. My abuse and trauma unfortunately started at a very young age, I can't pinpoint it. I also can't pinpoint when I began to feel like a man. I can't pinpoint when I became extremely depressed. But it was regardless, all at a young age.
My therapist and I have slowly been working though all of my abuse and trauma, and I did start to see how much they're linked to my gender and sexuality... One event that stands out for me, was loosing my virginity at about 10 years old in a pub bathroom, with a girl who was about 14. I guess from then onwards, I got uncomfortable in my body, scared of the developed female body (as mine wasn't at that point) and felt more like a man. Which I guess is understandable.
There are more events that took place across my life, sexually abusive men at age 13-15, sexual assault 15, and my father was always abusive from as young as my memory can go back.
I would say I feel like multiple people are staying in this body of mine, it's as if my physical body is a hotel for them, they like to switch about. My therapist has recently said that my sexual abuse has most likely contributed to my sexuality and gender. He says it makes sense to want to be a man, as they've been the ones in control my whole life, that it makes sense that I want to be "the dominant one".
Although I don't have a dissociative identity disorder, or any other personality disorder, I've had past therapists assume I was developing one, and I'm in the process of being hospitalized to a placement that deal with ptsd and help prevent personality disorders.
A part of me is scared of never feeling like a man again after discharge, a part of me wonders if I'm actually Trans or if it is a scar left behind from the trauma. Either way, I want testosterone. I feel like it'll help me get over what's happened to my "female" body. My dislike to my body is definitely more abuse fueled than anything else.
I do feel like a let-down to the transsexual community, like I'm the bad-rep, the one that fits into ignorant stereotypes perfectly; the mentally ill, sexually abused transsexual.
Quote from: Gilbert Rose on March 04, 2017, 03:01:23 PM
(Triggering stuff: mental health + hospitalization).
Firstly, I'd like to start by saying that I'm sorry you've had those experiences. I myself am a victim of trauma, multiple and too much to list. My abuse and trauma unfortunately started at a very young age, I can't pinpoint it. I also can't pinpoint when I began to feel like a man. I can't pinpoint when I became extremely depressed. But it was regardless, all at a young age.
My therapist and I have slowly been working though all of my abuse and trauma, and I did start to see how much they're linked to my gender and sexuality... One event that stands out for me, was loosing my virginity at about 10 years old in a pub bathroom, with a girl who was about 14. I guess from then onwards, I got uncomfortable in my body, scared of the developed female body (as mine wasn't at that point) and felt more like a man. Which I guess is understandable.
There are more events that took place across my life, sexually abusive men at age 13-15, sexual assault 15, and my father was always abusive from as young as my memory can go back.
I would say I feel like multiple people are staying in this body of mine, it's as if my physical body is a hotel for them, they like to switch about. My therapist has recently said that my sexual abuse has most likely contributed to my sexuality and gender. He says it makes sense to want to be a man, as they've been the ones in control my whole life, that it makes sense that I want to be "the dominant one".
Although I don't have a dissociative identity disorder, or any other personality disorder, I've had past therapists assume I was developing one, and I'm in the process of being hospitalized to a placement that deal with ptsd and help prevent personality disorders.
A part of me is scared of never feeling like a man again after discharge, a part of me wonders if I'm actually Trans or if it is a scar left behind from the trauma. Either way, I want testosterone. I feel like it'll help me get over what's happened to my "female" body. My dislike to my body is definitely more abuse fueled than anything else.
I do feel like a let-down to the transsexual community, like I'm the bad-rep, the one that fits into ignorant stereotypes perfectly; the mentally ill, sexually abused transsexual.
I'm really sorry that such harmeful things have happened to you. And it's not your fault you happen to fit that stereotype. The problem with stereotypes is that they're directed so broadly at a whole group. It's very likely someone will fit it. But your experiences and traumas are yours, as an individual, and you should never feel shame or guilt because of it.
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Never had sexual abuse let alone any other forms of abuse growing up. I'm still a virgin and haven't had my first kiss so no 'improper' sexual relations there. I knew something was off since I was a small child and then dysphoria really hit during puberty. Also really sheltered and grew up in a conservative Christian home. My dad isn't weak and my mom isn't strong, they're both balanced individuals.
I'm sure there are some people who think they are gay or trans but are that way because of sexual abuse (have read some stories on it) but they're in the vast minority. The majority of gay and trans people, even the ones who were sexually abused, don't seem to be confused over identity or attraction.
I knew when I was 5. No sexual abuse. Lots of physical and emotional abuse from my father though. I wasn't a happy child and he didn't like my feminine leanings and would quickly get angry when I displayed them. I'm definitely proof you can't beat the gender out of someone but you can make them terrified to be their true self.
I am relieved to know you are in professional trauma care, Gilbert Rose.
Trauma is very treatable. Please do not be afraid when the doctors talk about "dissociative identities" or "personalities disorders." My therapist doesn't distinguish between PTSD, DID or any of the dissociative disorders. She sees them as different points on the same scale and therapy is very similar. Dissociation in and of itself is an amazing and wonderful coping mechanism that helps people like me survive the horrible things that happened to us as children. It only becomes a "disorder" if it begins to negatively impact a person's life.
Your description of it being like your "physical body is a hotel" for "multiple people" who "like to switch about" is pretty much how things are for me. I have been in therapy for 8 years now, and have found many of the things your doctors have told you to be true. There are 6 of us in my System. I am the only girl. My child's brain created me, the girl alter, to survive being raped by another boy.
Multiple Personality/Dissociative Identity Disorder is a disorder of secrecy. The victim's life depended on hiding what they were doing. My Primary alter had a happy and normal life. He didn't know about his abuse, me, or have any idea that the rest of us were carrying the pain for him. A traumatic event caused Primary to have a breakdown when he was 48. When I stepped in to help I realized I was a separate person and our dissociative identities became a "disorder." Primary doctor's insisted he was transsexual for 2 years. But as badly as I wanted to live, he did too. When the time/memory loss and flashback began, the doctors realized he was DID.
I understand your fear about never feeling like a man again after discharge. Alot of people talk about alters going away during integration and fusion. I was really scared that meant I was going to die when we got better too. But it doesn't have to be that way if it's not right for you. We are still 6 people in one brain. We feel safe now. None of us has to face the horrible things that happened when we were small alone anymore. Primary talks good care of us and we all help him the best we can. It works good for us. We don't have a disorder anymore.
The doctor's prescribed estrogen medicine for Primary when they thought he was transsexual. It took 5 years for them to figure out it didn't drive him nuts or make him want to be a girl because it can't. It's Primary's job to be a boy! I was happy it got rid of all that hair so I looked more like I did when I was primary alter during junior high. And I like having boobs. But the peace came ffor us from chemical castration. Abusers raise their children to be abusers. It get worse and worse generation after generation. But now I know the pain and suffering ended with me.
You are in my thoughts and prayers. Love, Flytrap
50 years ago, I was 17 and I was questioning everything about myself. At that time psychologists said that transgender feelings for M2F was caused by cruel or absent fathers.
Wrong.
After 50 years, those feelings never went away, even after the paternal unit finally passed away.
The exact cause is still to be determined, but it is not caused by situational experiences. It is something we are born with.
Yea, I got this today in chat under the guise of "advice"...
Because I'm a 35 year old virgin, I don't know my sexual and gender identity. I think I know myself better after 35 years than some random person on the internet. Oh, and since I haven't been with anyone (sexually), I don't know who I'm attracted to...
I ended that conversation. Took me saying not to message me in local to get it to stop.
I don't like ignoring people, but ignorant people can just go pound sand. I dont have the patience for them *even* before recognizing who and what I am.
Quote from: NotSure81 on March 13, 2017, 06:41:35 PM
Yea, I got this today in chat under the guise of "advice"...
Because I'm a 35 year old virgin, I don't know my sexual and gender identity. I think I know myself better after 35 years than some random person on the internet. Oh, and since I haven't been with anyone (sexually), I don't know who I'm attracted to...
I ended that conversation. Took me saying not to message me in local to get it to stop.
I don't like ignoring people, but ignorant people can just go pound sand. I dont have the patience for them *even* before recognizing who and what I am.
If that was our chat, it sound like the people giving you advice may have stepped over the line. We can give advice but we are not supposed to make judgements as it could violate TOS 5 or 10 and this could also apply (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,173899.0.html). It should be brought to the attention of the chat staff for evaluation and possible action.
Yes Dena, it was in our chat earlier today and it was only one person over PM. I connect via HexChat and have full logs available if needed. If you guys think it needs to be handled, please pm me and ill get you the details so we don't derail this thread.
Edited:
Dena, unfortunately I'm not allowed to PM anyone. Tells me access denied.