This is something that might affect some of the members here.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/11/health/aetna-california-investigation/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/11/health/aetna-california-investigation/index.html)
CNN/by Wayne Drash 02/11/2018
Wow
Unbelievable and people pay good money for insurance to cover there lives
Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on February 12, 2018, 10:38:20 AM
Unbelievable and people pay good money for insurance to cover there lives
People pay outrageous prices for medical insurance. For years I had Blue Cross/Blue Shield and when Obamacare came into play the co-pays and premiums went up to the point that I couldn't afford the co-pays.
I ended up dropping them in favor of a plan that didn't cost as much but still.
Ironically, I had worked for Aetna in college as a transcriber (type or use to type 80 wpm back in the day with a typewriter).
And again, ironically, Aetna appeared to be one of the best insurances for GID and surgeries - go figure.
I had Aetna with my insurance at work in the 1980's and 1990's. My company dropped Aetna when the contract lapsed and went into a PPO company in late 1990's with the same kind of payment schedule with co-pay. I was laid off in 2001 and went with the $ COBRA $ for 18 months. Then I independently went with Aetna thinking I would get the same. No, all that were available for the 56+ yr old was a whole slew of plans with various deductibles. I picked an Aetna plan and I didn't reach the deductible after a year plus a refused $1.600 urgent care visit. I dropped that after paying nearly &10,000 in premiums with no return. This was before Obamacare.
Joelene
I've heard that before Obamacare insurance companies could take your money for years and then if you got sick they would either jack up your premiums so you couldn't afford them anymore or just cancel your policy. I also heard that you couldn't get a policy after you got canceled because you now had a pre-existing condition.
A lot of the negative things insurance companies had pulled were stopped before ObamaCare. Personally, having had to pay for my insurance all my life and then have my premiums and co-pays go up to support ObamaCare did not make me a supporter.
Quote from: Cassi on February 15, 2018, 11:30:42 PM
A lot of the negative things insurance companies had pulled were stopped before ObamaCare. Personally, having had to pay for my insurance all my life and then have my premiums and co-pays go up to support ObamaCare did not make me a supporter.
The more I read about the nonsense that Americans put up with the more I'm glad I live in Canada. This sort of issue simply doesn't exist here.
My wife told me about this the other day. Not unbelievable - you'd be surprised what goes in the healthcare industry.
Both healthcare and health insurance are for profit industries. So it's logical that their first priority is to maximize their profits. If somebody gets healed in the process then that's only a bonus.
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QuoteBoth healthcare and health insurance are for profit industries
Perhaps in the States, but in Canada, hospitals are non-profit. Individual doctors and clinics are for profit, but, for residents, they get paid according to what the provincial health care specifies.
Quote from: Cassi on February 12, 2018, 11:12:06 AM
Ironically, I had worked for Aetna in college as a transcriber (type or use to type 80 wpm back in the day with a typewriter).
Hey, I worked for Aetna back in 1988, too, first in the mail room, then in personal claims. LOL My first job when I got out of the Navy.
I will also add, I will take the US healthcare system over a Canada or UK type system. I have a good friend that lives in Quebec and when he tells of the wait times and other difficulties he has getting care, I cannot believe it. I have heard way too many times about several month waiting periods for care in the UK and Canada from other people, too. I don't think any of the 3 systems is perfect or Utopian, but I think the US is the better of the options. YMMV. :)
Quote from: AnneK on February 16, 2018, 10:53:09 AM
Perhaps in the States, but in Canada, hospitals are non-profit. Individual doctors and clinics are for profit, but, for residents, they get paid according to what the provincial health care specifies.
Ahhh Yes but we cannot have a national health care system here in the USA because that would be seen as socialism aka communism in the eyes of many here. It goes against free enterprise, profiteering and could benefit everyone.
Quote from: Cassi on February 15, 2018, 11:30:42 PM
A lot of the negative things insurance companies had pulled were stopped before ObamaCare.
I saw no evidence of that. If anything insurance companies were getting worse.
(I submit the above referenced article as evidence of the brazen disregard for people and profit at all cost mentality that informs the actions of large insurance corporations.)
Quote from: ainsley on February 16, 2018, 11:07:22 AM
I will also add, I will take the US healthcare system over a Canada or UK type system. I have a good friend that lives in Quebec and when he tells of the wait times and other difficulties he has getting care, I cannot believe it. I have heard way too many times about several month waiting periods for care in the UK and Canada from other people, too. I don't think any of the 3 systems is perfect or Utopian, but I think the US is the better of the options. YMMV. :)
Why do I keep hearing this from Americans, but not Canadians? It's certainly at odds with my experiences and those of others I know. Also, how is the U.S. system better, when many people can't afford health care at all, especially with Trump cutting millions more off Medicaid? Also, according to reports, the U.S. has the most expensive health care in the developed world.
The healthcare system in the USA is horrible. It is the most expensive in the world while ranking behind most other first world nations in patient health outcomes. We have good doctors and nurses working in a bad system.
—————————————————
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror
"The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but this report and prior editions consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance."
"Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in the 2010, 2007, 2006, and 2004 . . ."
"The U.S. ranks last overall with poor scores on all three indicators of healthy lives—mortality amenable to medical care, infant mortality, and healthy life expectancy at age 60. "
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Quote from: Janes Groove on February 16, 2018, 11:21:29 AM
I saw no evidence of that. If anything insurance companies were getting worse.
(I submit the above referenced article as evidence of the brazen disregard for people and profit at all cost mentality that informs the actions of large insurance corporations.)
http://calpatientguide.org/v.html reflects legislation that was made law almost 20 years ago.
And I agree, insurance companies have become worse since I believe ObamaCare went into effect.
Quote from: AnneK on February 16, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
Why do I keep hearing this from Americans, but not Canadians? It's certainly at odds with my experiences and those of others I know. Also, how is the U.S. system better, when many people can't afford health care at all, especially with Trump cutting millions more off Medicaid? Also, according to reports, the U.S. has the most expensive health care in the developed world.
"Waiting for treatment has become a defining characteristic of Canadian health care."
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2017
So, apparently your mileage DOES vary. :)
Hey, fair enough. I find most of your arguments specious and littered with one-liners that are cherry picked stats to support your view. My personal experience with the US healthcare system, and that includes stage iv cancer treatment, has been exceptional. I speak from my experience and refuse to argue points from articles. We can all search the internet to find supporting views. But, YMMV, or your internet reading list may vary, too.
Quote"Waiting for treatment has become a defining characteristic of Canadian health care."
Having been referred to a couple of specialists, I can say I haven't had to wait anywhere near the times listed. I also had an ultrasound recently and just walked in to the clinic, took a seat and shortly after had the ultrasound. No appointment needed. I have done the same for X-rays. I have also had an endoscope to examine my bladder, again without much of a wait, but I did have an appointment. Also, the system can move very quickly in emergency situations, as expected. New Brunswick is one area of the country that has a problem getting/keeping doctors, so that may be part of the problem there. However, that may just be part of a general problem where many doctors don't want to practice in smaller, rural or remote areas.
BTW, that Fraser Institute is a hard right wing organization that has long had an agenda against any sort of social programs. It's almost as bad a relying on Breibart News for social policy. So, take what they say with a huge chunk of salt.
Regardless, there may be long booking times. For example I schedule my physicals well in advance, because I'm currently in the doctors office for one. I just book the next one while I'm there. I recently arranged for my annual optometrist visit. My date was determined by being a year from my last one, not by when they could squeeze me in. Also, while my physician books appointments, she also has walk in clinics twice a week and I have even walked in and been seen during the booked appointment time. So, you have to understand why I have difficulty believing those claims of long waits before being seen. It's simply not been my experience. On the other hand, I've never faced bankruptcy to pay medical expenses.
BTW, GCS is covered here under our health care.
Quote from: AnneK on February 16, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
Why do I keep hearing this from Americans, but not Canadians?
I've heard that anybody regardless of how wealthy they are can get SRS fully paid for in Canada and it doesn't cost them anything. No deductibles. No copays. No $33,000 out of pocket if your plan denises you. Nada. Drugs are way cheaper in Canada too. Not to mention Canada is rated higher than the US for quality of care and overall health outcomes.
Quote from: Cassi on February 16, 2018, 11:47:20 AM
And I agree, insurance companies have become worse since I believe ObamaCare went into effect.
They were such sweethearts before Obamacare. Telling folks dying of cancer, "Sorry, you got a pre-existing condition. Sucks for you." and "Oh thanks for paying all those premiums over the years. POLICY CANCELED."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/03/26/historians-take-note-what-america-looked-like-before-obamacare/?utm_term=.9a1b06615bd7
QuoteMy personal experience with the US healthcare system, and that includes stage iv cancer treatment, has been exceptional.
I've never questioned the availability of good heath care in the U.S.. The problem is affordability of it for so many, including those with insurance having to cover deductibles. Trump recently cut millions off Medicaid. How much health care can they afford?
There are health insurance companies in Canada. However, they're there for things that our health care doesn't cover. For example, if I have to go into the hospital, i might not get a private room. Private health insurance will cover that. But a really big reason for private insurance is for when travelling where the health care doesn't cover all the costs. This is a real concern for those travelling to the U.S. On the other hand, if it's necessary to go to the U.S. for treatment, then the full cost is covered.
Quote from: AnneK on February 16, 2018, 01:15:37 PM
I've never questioned the availability of good heath care in the U.S.. The problem is affordability of it for so many, including those with insurance having to cover deductibles. Trump recently cut millions off Medicaid. How much health care can they afford?
There are health insurance companies in Canada. However, they're there for things that our health care doesn't cover. For example, if I have to go into the hospital, i might not get a private room. Private health insurance will cover that. But a really big reason for private insurance is for when travelling where the health care doesn't cover all the costs. This is a real concern for those travelling to the U.S. On the other hand, if it's necessary to go to the U.S. for treatment, then the full cost is covered.
So, a couple points to what you are saying. I know our care costs more. We are capitalists and in my opinion, you get what you pay for. You want good care, then you have to pay for it. But I say that from an individual's point of view.
Which leads me to my next point: Medicare. I don't care about medicare. That is the social health care program and not private health insurance. Obviously, the 'you get what you pay for' mantra doesn't apply here. :) The saying that goes with that is the same as I told my kids when they were young and I was distributing things among them: you get what you get, and you don't pitch a fit. I said that because we didn't have enough money while raising our kids to shower them with everything they wanted. Same with the distribution of social health care in the USA. The USA is a capitalist society.
Which leads me to my final point: Representative Republic. Trump did not cut medicare. The representatives that the people of the USA sent to Washington cut medicare. Hence, the people of the USA cut medicare. It is not a majority rule, nor a democratic society. We are a representative republic, like it or not.
The people of the USA are divided (of course we are) on many issues, and we send people into office to do what we want them to do. Blame the people for cutting things, not the people we send there. The people are the reason we have the health care system in place now. If the people today wanted to move to a social care system, it would have happened already. That tide may be changing, but it is not as easy as one may think, because the States can make their own laws and that is where the real power of the
United States lies (in the people). Which is exactly what the State of California is doing with Aetna: wielding their power to address inequities from a profit driven company. We don't need federal intervention in healthcare. The
people will handle it.
Yes, we are a representative government with the best representation that The Russian intelligence service alongside the Russian crime syndicate can buy. What a joke.
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Why do you have such a problem with helping people who need help??? Why is it OK to set up a situation that requires people to have sufficient resources, either directly or through insurance, to get health care? Back in the '60s, there was the war on poverty. Now the situation seems to be kick them while they're down. You've got a president who thinks cutting benefits for those who need them while creating tax cuts that mainly benefit the wealthy is a good thing.
BTW, while I consider the current disaster of a president to be an aberration, there appear to be a lot of people are so determined to hurt and not help others. It's an absolute disgrace in so many ways.
I used to have respect for the U.S., but not now, when I look at the health care situation, poverty, gun rights nonsense (Why are gun owners rights more important than the lives that have been lost to guns?) and so much more. How is it possible for the richest country on the planet to have so many who cannot afford health care? Are in poverty? How can you possibly justify that??
QuoteWe are capitalists and in my opinion, you get what you pay for.
And now you're getting it with Trump, by far the worst president in history!
Quote from: AnneK on February 18, 2018, 11:03:55 AM
Why do you have such a problem with helping people who need help??? Why is it OK to set up a situation that requires people to have sufficient resources, either directly or through insurance, to get health care? Back in the '60s, there was the war on poverty. Now the situation seems to be kick them while they're down. You've got a president who thinks cutting benefits for those who need them while creating tax cuts that mainly benefit the wealthy is a good thing.
BTW, while I consider the current disaster of a president to be an aberration, there appear to be a lot of people are so determined to hurt and not help others. It's an absolute disgrace in so many ways.
I used to have respect for the U.S., but not now, when I look at the health care situation, poverty, gun rights nonsense (Why are gun owners rights more important than the lives that have been lost to guns?) and so much more. How is it possible for the richest country on the planet to have so many who cannot afford health care? Are in poverty? How can you possibly justify that??
You did not read and/or understand what I just wrote. Do not ask me your questions. I just explained how the system works in the USA and you assume my personal stance on things, of which, you have no clue.
Let me sum it up and hopefully you will be able to see why your questions are misdirected: The basic tenants of the USA-
Popular Sovereignty
All power comes from the people.
Limited Government
Government may do only the things that the people give it power to do.
Separation of Powers
Basic powers of the state are distributed among independent branches of government.
Checks and Balances
Each branch of government can be checked by the other branches.
Judicial Review
Power of the courts to determine if a law/government action is constitutional.
Federalism
Division of power among a central and local governments.From those you will see your issues with the US are not with the US, but the way the
people are.
Also, I don't care what you, or anyone outside of the US, think of our representatives (i.e., President, Senator, Representative, etc.). They aren't there for you; they are there for the people of the US.
QuoteAll power comes from the people.
Take a look at all the politicians that have been bought. One example recently in the news is how the NRA is giving millions to politicians to fight gun control laws. Is that the will of the people in Parkland Fla.? Or the parents of the Sandy Hook kids? Or is it the will of the gun industry, putting profits ahead of people's lives?
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/marco-rubio-took-millions-from-nra-did-nothing-to-prevent-parkland-10089415 (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/marco-rubio-took-millions-from-nra-did-nothing-to-prevent-parkland-10089415)
QuoteGovernment may do only the things that the people give it power to do.
The U.S. government apparently forgot about that with all the wiretapping Ed Snowden revealed.
QuoteEach branch of government can be checked by the other branches.
Power of the courts to determine if a law/government action is constitutional.
Trump seems to be of different opinion on those.
QuoteDivision of power among a central and local governments.
And that's why the FCC is trying to pass a law that prevents states from passing laws guaranteeing net neutrality, which is clearly stepping on state's turf. On this note, how many Americans want their ISP or carrier interfering with their access to the 'net? What if one of those companies decided they don't want people accessing sites such as this? There's another thread here about how Trump created a law that allows businesses to discriminate.
QuoteThey aren't there for you; they are there for the people of the US.
What happens in the U.S. often affects what happens elsewhere, particularly Canada. For example, since Trump got in, we've seen a rise in bigotry, white supremest, etc., thanks to a U.S president that not only doesn't stand up against those things, but actually seems to support them.
After waking up this morning I turned on the radio and the station that I listen to plays oldies. I was blown away as the music they were playing were God Bless America and a few other old patriotic songs.
:police: This thread has deteriorated into accusations and political bashings as expected by the usual users. Before it melts down completely I am locking it. Discussion is one thing TOS violations is another. :police:
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