Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transitioning => Facial feminization surgery => Topic started by: Just Mandy on April 10, 2008, 05:24:39 PM

Title: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 10, 2008, 05:24:39 PM
This is the first consult/quote I've gotten and I'm wondering how this
quote compare to U.S. FFS surgeons:

This is what they want to do:

Feminizing Rhinoplasty
Chin enhancement (no bone work needed, just silicone implant)
Blepharoplasty
Scalp advance
Forehead contouring or reconstruction (through shaving or through setback of the anterior wall of the frontal sinuses)
Forehead/Brow lift
Upper lip lift
Midface lift
Neck lift
Cheek Augmentation using Medpor implants

All for the low low price of $23,000.

They want to do things that I'm not sure I want or really need, like I'm not sure that I need forehead work with the
way I wear my hair, but maybe I do. You know I"m not looking for perfection. Is it common for surgeons to
want to "do the works"?

I was OK with a rhino and chin, but OMG it's like a total reconstruction from there on the list down. I know if I had it all done
I'd be really happy with the outcome, but what's the point of diminishing returns? Does a nose and chin get
you 95% there, and all the other stuff the last 5%? I know for some people forehead work is a given but I really
don't see it for me. I did at one time, I thought I had to have it, but now I don't.

Amanda
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: tinkerbell on April 10, 2008, 07:44:20 PM
I know someone who had FFS with a famous surgeon here in San Francisco.  I'm not exactly sure what type of surgeries she had (all I know is that she had 'the works' whatever that is..).  She paid over 45K for her FFS.

tink :icon_chick:
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: lisagurl on April 10, 2008, 07:49:07 PM
Mine 64K
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Myanne on April 10, 2008, 08:17:32 PM
Hi AlwaysAmanda!

I was considering it as well, but only for the forehead and scalp adv...
Where did you got your infos from if I may ask? cause I find the price quite low anyway.

Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Lori on April 10, 2008, 08:20:06 PM
Yes...is this quote from a Z in Chicago? Seems awfully cheap.....
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 11, 2008, 09:22:39 AM
No it's Marcelo Di Maggio, at least one of the people here are Susan's has gone there and
she is stunning. I won't say who because I'm not sure she has said it publicly.

http://genderways.com/en/n1/plastic_surgery.htm (http://genderways.com/en/n1/plastic_surgery.htm)

The quote is higher than what the web site says but FFS normally does not
include some of the other things they think I need.

Even if you add in airline/lodging cost it's still sounds  a lot better than 45K.

Amanda
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Purple Pimp on April 11, 2008, 04:07:44 PM
Wow, great price.

If you go through with it, just be aware that that route is a relatively new one.  From what I understand, rather than dealing directly with a doctor like in the U.S., you're going through a company called Plenitas that arranges everything, and they haven't got all the kinks worked out of the system yet.  I recommend that you check out the Yahoo Group (I don't recall the exact name, maybe Plenitas) created by someone who went there and was pretty unhappy with the experience.  I don't necessarily believe the claims made by this person, but it's always valuable (IMHO) to hear both the good and the bad.

Lia
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 11, 2008, 04:22:32 PM
Thanks, I will check things out... I'm just getting started and this was the first consult I've
gotten.

Amanda
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Keira on April 11, 2008, 07:24:16 PM

Brow bossing + Rhino cost $9.7K by Brassard in late 2006.
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: MeghanAndrews on April 11, 2008, 08:07:42 PM
Hey Amanda,
There's a pretty informative group on Yahoo call FFS Support. There are many, many pre and post op MTF TS there who share their experiences, photos, cost comparisons, etc. If you are considering going down that path I highly recommend checking it out. You need to apply to it and be accepted, just be honest and you'll get in, trust me :) It really helped me out during my research phase. Cost is important, but make sure you see a lot of before and after pics and speak directly to people who have gone there. You have one face, you don't want to take risks to save $, you know? PM me if you ever need any info on it :) Meghan
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 12, 2008, 09:23:04 PM
Thanks Keira, $9700 sounds a lot better if I don't really need some of the other stuff.

I'll checkout the FFS group Meghan, thanks :) I plan to get a consult from all the major
surgeons before I decide. And I don't really want to base things on price but all other things
being equal I will choose the lower price.

Is it common for all these guys to want to give you the works even if you don't need it?

Amanda
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Keira on April 12, 2008, 09:59:43 PM

Many of the top FFS surgeon tend to play on your insecurities.
Its very easy to get unnesseraty surgery with the justification
that hey, were under the knife anyway. Not sure that should be a criteria...

Clearly state what you want changed in priority,
then
Ask for their advice on other things.
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Laura Eva B on April 13, 2008, 07:43:46 PM
Dr Zukowski - scalp advance / brow lift, brow shave, recontour & fill, feminizing rhinoplasty, upper & lower blepharoplasty, cheek implants, tracheal shave, jaw / chin contouring, mid & lower face / necklift .... $24k.

(London consultation Nov 2007 .... price held for a year)

Just that I don't maybe need half the procedures !

Laura x
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: LynnER on April 13, 2008, 10:24:07 PM
Check Dr. Cardenas in mexico... From what Ive seen hes a pretty good surgeon and only costs a fraction of his US competitors....

Hes currently my choice for FFS... being as I'll be able to afford him, before Id be able to afford any other US surgeon or GRS....
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 13, 2008, 10:38:45 PM
Thanks Lynn, I emailed Cardenas last week and I have not gotten a response yet. His fee's are very
low. Have you gotten a consult from him Lynn (or anyone else)?

It's hard not to go for the works because I can see how some of it is needed but it's
hard to get past the total price. But Keira as you say it the "While we there we might as well..."
kind of thinking comes into play.

I really this I'd be very happy with nose/chin work. I can always get the rejuvenation work
done after I'm older. I know that I could say a little money but really it's only the anesthesia
and facility costs.

Amanda
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: LynnER on April 13, 2008, 11:12:22 PM
Ive never bothered with consultations for anything cept an orchi localy...

I dont have the funding, and its highly unlikely that I will find the funding before Im 30, and probably just as unlikely before 35 or 40... <Im stuck in a catch 22... and Ive got no way out>

And since I know Ill probably never have the money... or best case senario, wont have the money for a few years... I see no point in getting a consultation that will be out of date before I can afford to get the deed done....

Most of the time, I can barely afford food and HRT...
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 13, 2008, 11:31:52 PM
Thanks Lynn, I was just wondering how much detail they give you about your needs. GenderWays sent
a lot of detailed changes they suggested I should have.

And I don't think in your case you need to worry about FFS, I think you look great :) But if
you rally want something fate has a way of making it possible, so don't give up on it :)

Amanda
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: LynnER on April 13, 2008, 11:43:25 PM
Photographicly spaking, It all depends on the angles....

it takes forever to get a decent shot...

I need chin/jaw work more than I think you do in all honesty... and I need to have my browridge shaved down at the very least....  squared wide chin + cleft = .....

If you look through Dr. Cardenas website it gives you most of the information you need to know... Though Im not sure how long it takes for him or his staff to respond to inqueries...
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 14, 2008, 12:22:49 AM
I have trouble with certain angles as well. I think we have very similar chins, cleft and all, but yours is
a little wider. But if I saw you on the street I don't think I could read you at all. But I'm beginning to
realize it's not what others think... it's what I think of myself. And I think that is a problem for
a lot of us :)
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Keira on April 14, 2008, 03:34:32 AM

Fat grafting is adding, usually you'd get lipo from the stomach area (male deposit)
and put it on the hips or buttocks, female fat deposit.

Part of the fat will go away with time (resorbtion)
Because it won't get the same blood supply as surrounding fats
(so some of it gets degraded as it dies off due to weaker blood supply)
Though I think there's been some improvement with this lately.
Because of this loss, which depends on the area (often its better to inject
the new fat in smaller bunches amongst existing fat to insure proper blood supply)
there is a new to come back a few time to get the result you want.
But, the removal + add, creates a quick distinct effect (more than just getting lipo).

The prices seem to be pretty low compared to US prices which are very high for the same thing.

At this price, going several time to adjust year over year
could be worth it (compared to insane US prices).

If you've got no stomach fats (rare in males and even in most females) then you're mostly out
of luck since there's not reallly another big source on the body that's usefall for a mtf
(a women could suction her hips and put some in her buttocks instead if she wanted to).
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: LynnER on April 14, 2008, 03:49:00 AM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 14, 2008, 12:22:49 AM
I have trouble with certain angles as well. I think we have very similar chins, cleft and all, but yours is
a little wider. But if I saw you on the street I don't think I could read you at all. But I'm beginning to
realize it's not what others think... it's what I think of myself. And I think that is a problem for
a lot of us :)

Yeah, it gets to the point where FFS becomes something YOU need for you... not something you need to pass...

Thats where Im at... I want it so that face looking in the mirror isnt so bad... and my fingers traceing my face dont upset me so much as they do....

Everybody else??? I really dont give a flying...
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on April 14, 2008, 04:21:12 PM
Thanks for the links Kiera, I'll check those out. The prices are very low... maybe the lowest I've
seen. I've seen some bad pictures of fat grafting were it turned out lumpy and uneven. I
decided for me the risk was not worth it based on what I know right now. And for me
moving fat around is a low priority right now :)

I'm going to try to find out more about Dr Cardenas, if he is a good surgeon with good results
I don't think I'll find a better price.

I know it might not be a great idea to piece-meal your face surgery but
a nose/chin would be less than $5K... it's hard to resist.

Amanda



Posted on: April 14, 2008, 09:12:09 AM
Keira, you mentioned "adjusting" several times a year. Would that be for evening out
the lumpiness of the fat grafting? Once it's smooth do you have to continue that?

Amanda

Posted on: April 14, 2008, 09:14:38 AM
I've done a little research on Dr Cardenas and based on this one
site http://www.juliadee.net/ffs.html (http://www.juliadee.net/ffs.html) I'm a fan :)

It sounds like it was a good experience and she had really great results from what I can tell.

I'll post more info as I find it.

Amanda


Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Keira on April 14, 2008, 05:29:18 PM

Its not to adjust the lumpiness, its to compensate for resorbtion.
Also, big graft don't work too well, because they don't get a good blood
suoply, and so it may be better (if there is a good source of fat),
to do it in more than one time just for that reason (also, you
wouldn't get lumps if the grafts are smaller).
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Just Mandy on May 08, 2008, 09:57:17 AM
I've not made any decisions yet but here are the procedures that Dr. Cardenas thinks
I need. The prices are amazing, I really expected to have to pay about three times that.
If he is as good as his past patients say I think it will be an easy decision. I've not found
anyone that has had a bad experience but I'm still looking. If anyone has not been
happy or knows someone that was unhappy with their experience or results
with Dr. Cardenas please let me know.

I'm also not sure that I'm going to get all the procedures listed. I think
what I'd plan on doing is a pre-surgery trip and meet with Dr C and let
him evaluate me in person and then after talking to him decide what to
do. He is the first Dr that did not think I needed brow work and that makes
me think that he is not trying to give me things I don't need.

I would need to stay six days and the recovery time before I can
return to work is two weeks. Airline costs are $500 round trip and
just a short 2 hour non stop flight on American from where I live.

Here is what Dr C. thinks i need:

Cheek lift (mid face lift)                   $1600.00
Neck/Chin Liposuction                       $770.00
Fat Grafting                                    $600.00
Aesthetic Rhinoplasty                      $2300.00
Lip Lift                                          $1100.00
Cheek implants                               $1900.00
Chin implant                                   $1200.00
===========================================================
Subtotal                                        $9470.00
Discount                                        -$473.50
Total                                            $8996.50

All in all it's pretty exciting, but I'm not going to let my excitement cloud my judgment.

Amanda
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: feliciahawthorn on May 19, 2008, 03:09:09 AM
I know Lori Michaels. She's the real deal. She tells her story about Genderways and I am certain she speaks from the heart. Here is one site with her story. I have read much more elsewhere but cannot locate it at the moment.

http://www.plasmetic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1365
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: samanthawhalen on June 17, 2008, 01:20:35 AM
Quote from: LynnER on April 13, 2008, 11:12:22 PM
Ive never bothered with consultations for anything cept an orchi localy...

I dont have the funding, and its highly unlikely that I will find the funding before Im 30, and probably just as unlikely before 35 or 40... <Im stuck in a catch 22... and Ive got no way out>

And since I know Ill probably never have the money... or best case senario, wont have the money for a few years... I see no point in getting a consultation that will be out of date before I can afford to get the deed done....

Most of the time, I can barely afford food and HRT...

You and me both :(  I might even have it worse (not that I'm bragging).  I'm married and a stay-at-home-dad, while the wife brings in the money.  Kind of hard to take money to do something that will likely destroy my marriage :(

Aeron
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: lisagurl on June 17, 2008, 09:12:45 AM
QuoteKind of hard to take money to do something that will likely destroy my marriage

Taking hormones will not destroy your marriage?
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: Nicque on June 29, 2011, 09:14:34 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fra.marama.egrd.net%2Ftoa%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fbhi.jpg&hash=44b197fbf7f4d0d6677043a62cc49e7b8d12acc1)
Title: Re: FFS Cost Comparison
Post by: RhinoP on July 13, 2011, 11:32:21 PM
With plastic surgery, there are a few types of doctors:

1. A surgeon who recommends every procedure under the sun to make more money.

2. A surgeon who recommends every procedure under the sun because he needs more practice.

3. A surgeon who overcharges certain procedures because he wants to make more money.

4. A surgeon who undercharges certain procedures because he needs more practice.

5. A surgeon who is actually talented and looking out for his patient's financial interests by lumping procedures together during one operating room visit or "package deal" - usually nothing wrong with this in concept.

To be honest, some transsexuals do need the "entire package", no doubt about that, and for the surgeons who try to lump these procedures together to help give the patient a discount, I would not say there's anything wrong with that as long as you KNOW the surgeon is experienced in the techniques that he will be performing AND you have seen multiple results of his on other patients. This is extremely important.

However, many people out there do not at all need the full package; some people are already perfectly Androgynous or even totally female looking from birth, while others may only need the "main" features softened, like the brow, nose, jaw, or chin. Things like cheek implants and fat changes and things like that tend to be a bit secondary to the cause, but is sometimes needed none-the-less. I would advice that cheek implants do not seem to have a high satisfaction rate and can come out uneven or bigger than expected. Also, the chin implant is something I would make sure I am sure about; fixing a weak or knobbly chin can truly make a big difference, but depending on the case, you may need a chin shave instead of a chin implant, or combo of both. It's just specific to the case.

It truly is about knowing what you need and do not need, and you probably should get a professional to morph a photo for you in conjunction to the procedures your doctor will perform to see what may be expected. I've been a plastic surgery adviser for numerous years, so if you post your photos, I could probably tell you in a flash if you really need all these procedures or not.

Whichever way you dice it, $24,000 is truly a deal for all those surgeries IMO, but if you don't actually need any of them, then it's a rip-off lol. Again, you also have to take your doctors skill level into account - most board certified plastic surgeons have had NO training in things like brow shaving, cheek implants, ect ect - this is actually oftentimes more routinely taught to maxilliofacial surgeons. Even if the surgeon is board certified, it does not always mean he has had proper education on all plastic surgery techniques (especially FFS, which is not regularly taught in plastic surgery programs), and the main thing again is to make sure that he has multiple patients who vouch for his work. Always make sure to find photos of them because surgeons are notorious for posting fake reviews online on forums.

And just to get the mystery overwith, you may even just want to get a second opinion by another gender surgeon. It doesn't hurt!