i have developed a female voice but im not confident in it and have had a mental block using it work and at home. i am ok with strangers. my voice is the only thing people question as i have been stealth for 10 yeas since i was23. its 4 lessons a month by a pro voice coach/opera singer. do you think it would help my mental black? anyone have stories on this? is it worth the money? 200 a month 4 45 min lessons
thank you
I have a very feminine voice because a female speech therapist taught me how to modulate my voice.
Honestly there are women with deep voices I don't see why people judge other people on their voices so much I myself don't intend to do voice coaching I talk the way I talk if people don't like it don't talk to me it says simple as that...
my voice is my voice I shouldn't have to alter it just to please other people
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It's not about just pitch. A low pitch with no resonance will be gendered female most of the time. The same pitch with resonance will be gendered male, even with a high pitch.
Consider resonance, breathiness, intonation and blended articulation combined with word choice. If you get gendered female consistently on the phone then maybe try one lesson and see what the therapist says?
Yes there's definitely more than just pitch. Resonance is important and so is intonation or modulation. The real trick is to learn how to put it all together.
One good example I've seen is this one trans lady on yout00b who does voice training videos. I can't think of her name off hand. The problem is that while she has really good pitch, she totally misses the other parts. She ends up sounding like a high pitched guy: super monotone and almost no inflection. A good voice coach would help you work on that. (mine did anyway)
My voice lessons have been great, having an actual speech therapist give you live feedback is very helpful. It's certainly not required, but I'd recommend it if it's feasible for you.
I have spent a TON of money on transition. In terms of "passing," by far, the best money I spent was with the speech pathologist. Besides the confidence, as just one example, I was at WalMart yesterday picking up passport photos I had sent to them. I was in total boy-mode. No makeup, no wig, just ball cap, sweatshirt, and jeans. In my normal "girl" voice, I asked for the photos. the clerk turned to another clerk and said, "She wants to pick up passport photos." The other clerk says, "I can help her..." ok. The ears are pierced. But the little steel balls in my ears and my voice were the ONLY clues I gave the clerks, and both somehow thought "woman." I think the voice was everything.
I should mention too, that my speech pathologist actually turned out to be an expert in transgender voice. And, not "voice lessons." Straight up medical professional. She did her Master degree at Johns Hopkins, doing work with transgender MtF people. She LOVES to work with MtF folks. In my opinion, THAT background and experience made a lot of difference.
Anyway, my speech pathologist was literally life changing. Highly recommended.
Kate
Quote from: Arianna Valentine on February 24, 2019, 09:42:08 PM
my voice is my voice I shouldn't have to alter it just to please other people
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Yes, you are totally correct. And, I alter my voice not to "please other people" so much as to provide them with more cues to correctly gender me. Whether or not it "should" be this way, it is, and likely will be for a while...
Kate
Quote from: Colleen_definitely on February 25, 2019, 07:25:06 AM
Yes there's definitely more than just pitch. Resonance is important and so is intonation or modulation. The real trick is to learn how to put it all together.
One good example I've seen is this one trans lady on yout00b who does voice training videos. I can't think of her name off hand. The problem is that while she has really good pitch, she totally misses the other parts. She ends up sounding like a high pitched guy: super monotone and almost no inflection. A good voice coach would help you work on that. (mine did anyway)
You are so right! My natural voice has a rather high pitch. I can easily keep a pitch average between 220 and 240 Hz. But still fail on the phone all the time! I just have a high pitch male voice!
If I am around with women, I have no problem to speak the entire day like a female, because the trigger to speak like a male is not there, and I fall automatically into the same speech pattern as he ladies have. Voice pitch wise I can keep up with them without any problems, in fact I have some women in my circle who have a lower voice than I.
It is the male speech memory that I have to forget, if I want to be a female on the phone!
It's definitely difficult after a lifetime of practice but it's far from an insurmountable problem. I went from being afraid of ever approaching a feminine voice to having to explain to people from my insurance company that I wasn't transitioning from female to male.
It takes a lot of work but it's attainable and my coach really helped a lot.
I had an amazing coach but as good as she was. We are the ones who have to put in the work. It is work. Lots of it. Emily was such a joy to be around I looked forward to our sessions. I didn't want to let her down. But I learned so much more from her than voice lessons. The best help I had was downloading a copy of :Voice Pitch Analyzer." https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.lilithwittmann.voicepitchanalyzer&hl=en
By reading passages from the book "Dorian Grey" The program tracks your progress through the reading and creates charts and reports that analyze the recording. This was the most useful tool because you did not have to monitor while you are talking. Of course you can read anything and it will also score it. But DG is preloaded.
Another technique is identifying a female celebrity you would like to emulate and then check for any interviews they have made. Study the interviews for pace, inflections, gestures, style, clothing, shoes. Then take it outside, start with a drive-up window. A particularly fun / evil practice is to use your female voice on the intercom at a fast food restaurant. This is especially fun at Chick fil a. then you go to the window and thank the person for serving a transgender person.
Quote from: Arianna Valentine on February 24, 2019, 09:42:08 PM
Honestly there are women with deep voices I don't see why people judge other people on their voices so much I myself don't intend to do voice coaching I talk the way I talk if people don't like it don't talk to me it says simple as that...
my voice is my voice I shouldn't have to alter it just to please other people
Sent from my LG-LS777 using Tapatalk
It's not purely about pleasing others. For me my voice was a source of dysphoria. My voice in my head has never matched the voice that comes from me.
If you are happy with your voice that is what matters but I sense pain behind your message. If it does bother you just remember your voice box is a wind instrument and it is feasible. It's still your voice you just go through therapy very much like a kid would when they have speech problems. Either way we support you in finding your happiness. ;D
Quote from: DawnOday on February 25, 2019, 11:32:27 AM
I had an amazing coach but as good as she was. We are the ones who have to put in the work. It is work. Lots of it. Emily was such a joy to be around I looked forward to our sessions. I didn't want to let her down. But I learned so much more from her than voice lessons. The best help I had was downloading a copy of :Voice Pitch Analyzer." https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.lilithwittmann.voicepitchanalyzer&hl=en
I agree with you that this analyser is a good way to test your pitch. I know from it what pitch my natural voice is. But as I said, I am just talking like a man with a rather high pitch voice. The problem is to get he female speech pattern. I can do that without any problem when I am with women, but I still fall into the male speech habit when I answer the phone! It is a mental training what I have to do to forget that male speech!
Quote
Another technique is identifying a female celebrity you would like to emulate and then check for any interviews they have made. Study the interviews for pace, inflections, gestures, style, clothing, shoes.
I don't agree with this, because I do not want to sound like a celebrity, and do not want to emulate their speech. I want to sound like Dietlind, and don't care how a celebrity sounds! I want to develop my own voice, and not be a copy of somebody else!
I have a question! What do you do to create a feminine resonance? Where is your tongue and Adem's apple? I ask because, although my therapist tells me I have good resonance, intonation and modulation, I think my voice sound ok out load but does not sound feminine when I playback my recording? Perhaps I'm just being critical.
The voice, like any wind instrument, all have different size chambers that produce a different resonance. I believe cis females have a smaller voice chamber (as well as shorter vocal cords) than cis males do, that contributes to the higher sounding feminine voice resonance. It is not enough to surgically shorten the vocal cords. I believe the size of the voice chamber needs to be reduced as well. But just how to do that without surgery is another question. I believe this is the reson why some are more successfull at it than orthers.
As far as voice apps are concerned, A good one will cost a little money but will allow you to record and playback your voice as well as monitor your pitch range in both notation and hertz scales. My therapist uses one that not only does all this but also shows your pitch range (highs, lows and average) in both Notation and in hertz scales.
I use two different apps. The first is free and is called Voice Pitch Monitor, which allows you to record and playback your voice but only shows pitch range in notation (C3, C4, C5 etc...).
The second is also free and is called Voice Pitch Analyst (the same as Dawns app above) but does not playback your recorded voice, at least not my version. It does however display your pitch range in a hertz scale and provides an all in one female, androgynous and male chart range. It also stores a text version in Min avg Hertz, Max avg Hertz and your over all Average Hertz.
They are both ok but I get tired of having to switch apps when I want to playback my voice. I'll have to ask my therapist again what app she uses but I think I will spent the money.
The app " Voice analyst" is what all of the therapists I have seen use.
It records, playback and provides all the statistics they typically look for. You need to tell it what your target min/max range is as it's not specifically for transgender use.
My target range was 155/175 but I think needs to be reset.
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On iOS Voice Pitch Analyst will play back the recording. I have been using it for a while and it is very useful.
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 25, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
On iOS Voice Pitch Analyst will play back the recording. I have been using it for a while and it is very useful.
I checked around on the google app store, and could not find a similar one for free.
But, as I said, pitch is not that problem, I have a female size voice box (no Adams Apple), all that is peachy with me. It is the darn way guys tend to speak that I have to get out of my head!
I can speak girls talk all day long fo many days in a row, if I am around females, and talk with them. As soon as I am at home alone, and the pone rings, I get the "yes sir" answer! It is a mental thing, I know, but I am German and that makes me thick headed!
Quote from: jill610 on February 25, 2019, 12:56:52 PM
The app " Voice analyst" is what all of the therapists I have seen use.
It records, playback and provides all the statistics they typically look for. You need to tell it what your target min/max range is as it's not specifically for transgender use.
My target range was 155/175 but I think needs to be reset.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190225/9ce909ccbfc532fe9e9633a313f56e91.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190225/0ac0d8b18a54bd12c3873060e8c64b6a.jpg)
Thank you Jill! Yes I believe that is the same app my therapist uses. I just download it. It cost $9.99.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 25, 2019, 01:08:26 PM
I checked around on the google app store, and could not find a similar one for free.
But, as I said, pitch is not that problem, I have a female size voice box (no Adams Apple), all that is peachy with me. It is the darn way guys tend to speak that I have to get out of my head!
I can speak girls talk all day long fo many days in a row, if I am around females, and talk with them. As soon as I am at home alone, and the pone rings, I get the "yes sir" answer! It is a mental thing, I know, but I am German and that makes me thick headed!
Oh yes Dietlind. The dreaded masculine speech patterns. They are indeed difficult habits to break. This is where your therapist also comes in. The words you choose. The more elegant, complete and flowing sentence patterns. etc...
Here is a example of my voice after training. Sorry it is a repost but I don't have time at the moment to make another while I'm at work. I used Voice Analyst to make the recording and get the stats. The red line in the view is a line where I set my goal to not go below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr-0hpTWBgs
Dietland.... Be who you want to be. This was the method used by my voice coach who graduated with honors from the University of Washington with a masters in Speech Pathology. For myself it has helped however I do not talk like Meryl Streep or Sally Field, It's more about cadence and the difference between male and female speech patterns. You may have noticed ladies often answer questions in the form of a question. Where men have a inflection downward at the end of sentences, women have an upward inflection. Women generate speech from the diaphragm and men from the chest. Women forward resonate from the mouth Women tend to ask for opinions asking "What do you think" It also helps with subject matter. You may find a woman that can discuss a 440 hemi engine but those ladies are hard to find. Most women don't give a hang about the New England Patriots. They talk of kids, family, recipes, family vacations, and when they do get into deep conversations they tend to seek consensus. Where men tend to let their ego do the talking. It's much more than copying them. The one thing I do like to copy is smiling. As a guy, I hardly ever smiled.
Quote from: DawnOday on February 25, 2019, 03:42:44 PM
Dietland.... Be who you want to be. This was the method used by my voice coach who graduated with honors from the University of Washington with a masters in Speech Pathology. For myself it has helped however I do not talk like Meryl Streep or Sally Field, It's more about cadence and the difference between male and female speech patterns. You may have noticed ladies often answer questions in the form of a question. Where men have a inflection downward at the end of sentences, women have an upward inflection. Women generate speech from the diaphragm and men from the chest. Women forward resonate from the mouth Women tend to ask for opinions asking "What do you think" It also helps with subject matter. You may find a woman that can discuss a 440 hemi engine but those ladies are hard to find. Most women don't give a hang about the New England Patriots. They talk of kids, family, recipes, family vacations, and when they do get into deep conversations they tend to seek consensus. Where men tend to let their ego do the talking. It's much more than copying them. The one thing I do like to copy is smiling. As a guy, I hardly ever smiled.
I understand Dawn And I appreciate the credentials you speech teacher has.
I don't need to learn most of that because it is part of my nature, I had to acquire male speech patterns, and had to force my voice to be low. I have a hard time to generate sounds in my chest, because I have a female type voice box (no Adams Apple to give room for a male type voice box), and trying to mimic low sounds make my throat hurt! The lowest I can get without straining my voice is to an androgynous voice level.
I have had female friends only for the last several years, and have no problem to maintain conversations with them all day long. It is my habit of falling into the learned behavior of male speech pattern, once I am not around females (i.e. on the phone). I have to unlearn this, I know my problem, and I know what to do about it, but I am currently busy with other problems of my body to put a lot of emphasis on this one, because i does not bother me a lot.
But I am not a good example for most transgender women, because like most of my body, my voice was also always more female than male.
I started out with 135 base pitch. I listened to a lot of u-tube videos. Then I had purchased a program and practiced every day to and from work in my car, about 1.5 hours per day for a year. Next, I had lessons from a speech pathologist. It was the same speech pathologist Dr. McGinn used. My results were ok.
I would record my voice daily when I practiced and later with the speech pathologist. I think hearing what you sound like is very important. I liked the analyzers too but hearing is very important. I think working on one thing a week and repeating it several thousand times at the sound that satisfies you is a good way to learn and change speech patterns.
Having a few ciswoman to talk to is a great way to mimic things like intonation, pitch variation and word choice. Woman say tummy not gut for example.
I think a good speech pathologist experienced with trans is a great opportunity to get professional feedback and help you with a hurdle (s).
I was not satisfied with just lessons. I put in a lot of effort and my voice just was not making it. I do know with telephone calls it is crucial to make a first sentence or two impact on the listener to get proper gendering. Once gendered properly on the phone then the listener pays less attention. Try to answer the phone for impact and really focus on the first two or so sentences.
I had a CTS and my base went from 135 to 170 with a 20 Hz range. I would not recommend a CTS. I was gendered female about 50%of the time.
I had a glottoplasty and I was 212 to 230 base this morning first sounds out at 0500 in the parking garage at work. I record the pitch, temperature and humidity and a set paragraph that has variation 5 days a week. The issue I have is I am horse. I have one vocal fold that the scar tissue did not respond as planned. I see the doctor 3/27 about a steroid injection to soften the scar tissue. Hopefully the vocal fold will relax and both the left and right fold will work in unison, touch and my hoarseness goes away.
I think purchasing the vocal program from executive voice (Kathy Perez) was worth the money.
I think Renee Blaker, my past speech pathologist was well worth the money (Insurance paid 80%).
My current speech pathologist and singing coach through Dr. Sataloff is worth the money ( The speech pathologist is covered by insurance 90%, in network. The singing coach is out of pocket).
I would not get a CTS, free or otherwise. It was very interesting as I was given fentanyl and local numbing. I was awake during the procedure. My neck was cut open and the cricoid cartledge was placed behind and up behind the thyroid cartledge.
I has a glottoplasty. It was a very aggressive glottoplasty. I have a pic of the healing web. It is the best web I have seen by far and the web healing was outstanding. I have seen the doctor perhaps 3 times since the glottoplasty. I have Reinke's edema on the left vocal fold compensating for the right vocal fold that is too stiff. The injection on 3/27 will loosen the right vocal fold and it will come in contact with the left vocal fold and the edema will go away. Hopefully I will have a beautiful voice.
I have learned how people treat other people that have a vocal impairment from not being able to speak to having an extremely low volume. My volume is fine now but during the recovery I was very low. The one vocal fold is compensating for the other.
I only have a head voice now. All of my voice is focused behind my nose and nasal area. I have no chest vibrations not could I ever get my chest to vibrate.
I have had a few times my circulatory system out paced my breathing ability. This occurred in a fast pace rucking with 90 pounds up hill and twice when spinning. I know I have to remain calm even though there is panic I can not get enough air in and out quick enough. I know I need to slow the pace and relax and not tense up. Having a high percent glottoplasty increases healing issues and leaves you with a reduced area to allow air in and out of your lungs.
having a low percent web glottoplasty will increase your pitch but may require vocal projection.
This is the extent of my vocal experiences to date. I will have a beautiful clear voice. It is a matter of a little more time and perseverance.
Quote from: Rachel on February 25, 2019, 05:54:17 PMI think purchasing the vocal program from executive voice (Kathy Perez) was worth the money.
She does very good work for anyone living in the area where she is, she also does in person voice coaching.
Here is another voice example and a transcript. I think for some of the people here that are working on their voice it would help to try making your own recordings or participate in voice chat. Nothing helps like using it. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuqjruQveBY
I'm not sure what frequency my pitch started off at. It was under gender neutral but it was never super low. My largest improvements came from when I went full time and was utilizing my voice training all the time because made I it a point not to talk in a male speech pattern so I would fully immerse myself.
There have been times when I have been self conscious about my voice and wondered if I pass but what really helped me was playing games online with voice chat [one of my favorites back in the day was Second Life]. I have found that online the guys tend to go all doe eyed and it has opened my eyes up to just how much I can have handed to me if I play the voice up nicely. The men trip all over themselves and it is cute. However then the aspect of not being listened to seriously when the strategy is involved even though in MMO games I play the role of the tank. I get talked over all the time. I have no doubt in my mind that I am not getting misgendered.
One exercise I suggest for people is try speaking your post while you are writing it. Don't just read the post because you need to be able to think about what you are going to say while using the female speech patterns. This type of exercise will help with making it second nature where you don't have to think about it so if you get upset or surprised your voice doesn't default to the old voice but instead this becomes your new default voice.
You are good girl! You sound to me like a younger female sounds, very natural and no slips to be heard, not even a trace of a slip.
My voice is more that of an older woman (which I am of course), and some of my cis women friends of the age bracket have even lower pitch voices than I do.
What I don't have down pad, is not to fall back into that male type of speech. I have no problem when around women only, but as soon as I have to answer to a guy, I switch onto this guy thing.
I had visitors today, two women and one man. I did a nice female to female conversations with the ladies, but if the man interjected something, I answered him in my male voice, to switch back to the female voice again talking with thee ladies.
I know each time when I do it, but at that time it is o late to prevent it. Oh well!
I wonder what happened to our Skype voice stuff, and later the discord server voice stuff?
Quote from: Dietlind on February 26, 2019, 11:03:58 PM
You are good girl! You sound to me like a younger female sounds, very natural and no slips to be heard, not even a trace of a slip.
My voice is more that of an older woman (which I am of course), and some of my cis women friends of the age bracket have even lower pitch voices than I do.
What I don't have down pad, is not to fall back into that male type of speech. I have no problem when around women only, but as soon as I have to answer to a guy, I switch onto this guy thing.
I had visitors today, two women and one man. I did a nice female to female conversations with the ladies, but if the man interjected something, I answered him in my male voice, to switch back to the female voice again talking with thee ladies.
I know each time when I do it, but at that time it is o late to prevent it. Oh well!
I wonder what happened to our Skype voice stuff, and later the discord server voice stuff?
I've popped into the rooms several times and it is always empty. I'm always open to talking. I enjoy the practice.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 26, 2019, 11:03:58 PM
You are good girl! You sound to me like a younger female sounds, very natural and no slips to be heard, not even a trace of a slip.
My voice is more that of an older woman (which I am of course), and some of my cis women friends of the age bracket have even lower pitch voices than I do.
What I don't have down pad, is not to fall back into that male type of speech. I have no problem when around women only, but as soon as I have to answer to a guy, I switch onto this guy thing.
I had visitors today, two women and one man. I did a nice female to female conversations with the ladies, but if the man interjected something, I answered him in my male voice, to switch back to the female voice again talking with thee ladies.
I know each time when I do it, but at that time it is o late to prevent it. Oh well!
I wonder what happened to our Skype voice stuff, and later the discord server voice stuff?
I think this is yet another example of where speech pathologists come in. One of the suggestions from mine was to listen to women close to my age. It turns out that Carolyn Kennedy is my age, so I listened to several interviews with her. Her voice is in fact lower than mine, but far more feminine than mine. In listening to her, my speech pathologist helped me know what to listen for, and how to analyze the recordings I made of both her and me.
As just one example, in English, emotion comes from the vowels in a word, not the consonants. So, any time we elongate, or emphasize a vowel, it sounds more feminine. There were 20 other things she told/taught me about listening to voices.
Another thing my speech pathologist helped me with is actually talking while thinking about those 20 things I was supposed to think about. THAT was a lot of work and a lot of practice, and a lot of recording and listening.
I think this is an example of something that would help you too, Dietland. It seems you blend in with whom you are talking. Instead, you need to think VERY much about how you say each word, and still come up with coherent thoughts. A speech pathologist can help you do that until you don't have to think so much about it.
I was on a customer call today with an account team. For reasons, I was going to be in the call speaking as a male. But when it came to talk, I was excited enough and just started blurting out, and it came out female. I caused a bit of confusion actually. I attribute that completely to my speech pathologist...
Kate
For sure. To get the voice to sound feminine without thinking about it was the hardest part and I did encounter what Dietlind was going through but with enough voice training and practice eventually that goes away.
Quote from: KatieP on February 27, 2019, 12:14:22 AM
I think this is an example of something that would help you too, Dietland. It seems you blend in with whom you are talking. Instead, you need to think VERY much about how you say each word, and still come up with coherent thoughts. A speech pathologist can help you do that until you don't have to think so much about it.
Kate
I don't really know what would work best with me Kate, probably somebody with a baseball bat behind me?
I learned most of my English (beyond the school stuff) from my wife who was a professor teaching foreign language acquisition to future high school language teachers.
Because of tis, I might have a lot of that female stuff already as part of my day to day language. Because I had to really work on sounding like a male (frequency of voice, it hurts my throat when I try to speak with a chest resonance voice), I might have learned this so well that I have a hard time to let go of it if I hear a guy?
My first language was a southern version of Dutch, almost identical to the language spoken in South africa, and the second, the one I spoke for half of my life, is German. I have to figure out, how a male speech pattern sounds in these languages (compared to a female one), and this might be the real key to my problems, when speaking English?
I am pretty sure that I need some professional analyzing what is going on with my speech, if i want to eliminate this. But , on the other hand, I don't need to sound different than I do currently, because i am 99% of my time with women, and when with male, like on the phone, it might be of advantage to sound like a male? Who knows?
Why on earth did nobody warn me that it is not easy to become a woman? ??? if I would have any balls (no pun intended), I would become a guy instead! >:-)
When I'm relaxed and comfortable, I think I sound pretty good. When I'm home, around my husband or at my parents' house (especially when my dad was alive) I always tensed up and went more toward a lower, definite masculine voice.
I've been questioned by Social Security and health insurance agents due to my paperwork all saying "male" and have been close to having agents hang up on me because they didn't believe I was who I said I was.
My voice recognition is far, far, far better than my facial recognition. I can almost always tell when I'm hearing a transgender person speaking (MtF or FtM), but I was blown away by my nurse practitioner yesterday. I saw her picture on her business card before she entered the room yesterday, but the woman that actually came in to talk to me was not the woman on that business card! I'm not sure if she's further along with HRT or if she's had facial surgery, but you wouldn't be able to tell by her voice. Not one bit.
I was in my semi-male role yesterday during our appointment, so my voice was pretty tense. I loosened up somewhat by the end of our appointment, but she did mention voice therapy at one point and after hearing her voice, I would certainly agree that it could help!
When I first transitioned, I'd found Melanie Anne Phillips' site and paid attention to every word she wrote. I sang along with female singers (Cirque du Soleil's Alegria, Evanescence, etc.) every time I was in my car. I talked on the phone with my girlfriend and was conscious of every sound I made. Eventually, I thought I'd made it, but my NP yesterday...wow. I was simply blown away!
And, oh yes, that drive-thru trick is fun and evil! Love, love love the looks I get when I've done that! :D
I should also mention that having pets can be a blessing in this respect. I've had people come into a room I was in asking if it was just me. "Yes." "Oh, I heard a woman talking."
This was just prior or transition. If you haven't transitioned yet, people can be more forgiving if you're practicing while talking to animals.
Update on my last post:
So, it turns out I embarrassed the hell out of myself when I very cautiously asked her if I could ask a personal question and told her the signs I read that led to my question...she's not, in fact, trans at all. Ugh. Well, now I feel stupid!
I still asked about voice training and she gave me some resources for that. It's still one of my goals, but I've lost a little bit of hope for my future and what can be achieved.
Quote from: Tribble on March 21, 2019, 04:38:16 PM
Update on my last post:
So, it turns out I embarrassed the hell out of myself when I very cautiously asked her if I could ask a personal question and told her the signs I read that led to my question...she's not, in fact, trans at all. Ugh. Well, now I feel stupid!
I still asked about voice training and she gave me some resources for that. It's still one of my goals, but I've lost a little bit of hope for my future and what can be achieved.
This is one reason why etiquette dictates that you don't ask and let them bring it up if they want to discuss it.
Quote from: NatalieRene on March 21, 2019, 05:07:31 PM
This is one reason why etiquette dictates that you don't ask and let them bring it up if they want to discuss it.
You are exactly right, of course.
It's not a question I would object to in a similar situation, given where we were and what this appointment was about, but I understand that others may have issues with that sort of probing and I will be respectful of that in the future.
I did let her know that my reasons for asking were not visual nor audible clues (voice), but something specific that she said in response to something I said. Even so, I should not have asked.
Quote from: Tribble on March 21, 2019, 06:20:15 PM
You are exactly right, of course.
It's not a question I would object to in a similar situation, given where we were and what this appointment was about, but I understand that others may have issues with that sort of probing and I will be respectful of that in the future.
I did let her know that my reasons for asking were not visual nor audible clues (voice), but something specific that she said in response to something I said. Even so, I should not have asked.
It is soooooo hard not to say something, or hint, or push the conversation. I find I really want to talk to others like me. I virtually NEVER come in contact with other people I know to be transgender. Naively, it seems like it would be a very interesting conversation...
Kate
Quote from: Tribble on March 21, 2019, 06:20:15 PM
You are exactly right, of course.
It's not a question I would object to in a similar situation, given where we were and what this appointment was about, but I understand that others may have issues with that sort of probing and I will be respectful of that in the future.
I did let her know that my reasons for asking were not visual nor audible clues (voice), but something specific that she said in response to something I said. Even so, I should not have asked.
Don't give up though with training it's possible. With training you can sound cis.
Quote from: KatieP on March 22, 2019, 12:29:32 AM
It is soooooo hard not to say something, or hint, or push the conversation. I find I really want to talk to others like me. I virtually NEVER come in contact with other people I know to be transgender. Naively, it seems like it would be a very interesting conversation...
Kate
Yes, sometimes it's very, very tempting, especially if you're not around other trans people often. This was actually the first or second time I've ever "outed" someone, even if she wasn't trans. The first time it happened, last year, I'm pretty sure when I said to someone, "Wait, you're trans?!?" she had specifically said something about transitioning or was explaining a situation that she was in that was specifically trans. This was in an all-inclusive environment and she was open about it. I told her I had no idea and she told me she thought I was just your bog-standard (my words) lesbian. I was in semi-male mode at the time but using my gender-neutral voice. I was just wearing a t-shirt but not my binder--this was when I was beginning to consider re-transitioning. As I was new to the community again in general and had had almost no experience with the community in real life, I did ask the wrong question. I asked, "Which way?" I was told I should ask what pronouns a person prefers. Totally understandable.
She was the first trans person that I know of that I could not immediately tell by their voice in my life, yet probably has that "squeaky" attribute my mom calls fake and cannot stand.
Quote from: NatalieRene on March 22, 2019, 12:34:28 AM
Don't give up though with training it's possible. With training you can sound cis.
I know it's possible, but up until last summer, I hadn't heard a single trans voice that I know of that I could not recognize as trans. When I met my provider I thought I had met my second, so my excitement got the better of me.
I think I mentioned above that I've had people on the other end of phone conversations that had my birth gender information that have almost hung up on me because they did not believe I was who I said I was.
I wish I didn't immediately freeze when I knew there were recording devices around. I need to get better about that so I can record myself and practice that way.
Before anyone gets too paranoid about their own voices...when someone chose the software that would be installed in my head they invested the most in voice-related programs. Most people do not pick up on the cues that I tend to notice.
I hope to be investing in voice training soon. My provider gave me a list of local coaches.
I am in the middle of voice therapy now - started three months ago. I have a bit of an unusual background in that I am a trained amateur singer and I am a tenor. I'm also very good at imitating voices and a lot of my training has been in trying to mimic women radio announcers, which has been really helpful. So getting to the target range has been pretty easy for me and with a bit of training, my voice is getting pretty good quickly. In hindsight, i think I probably could have trained my voice without therapy.
However, my therapist has been very helpful with non-verbal communication and style. I asked her to focus on that from my first session and she has been very tough (in a good way!). I am having to unlearn a lot of habits formed over decades. Progress has been slow but there has been progress. So the real benefit of voice training for me has been the non-voice stuff.
Just found this thread and apologize if I missed this but I will go back and read in more detail later. Headed out the door soon. Can anyone give a ball park idea of cost of voice therapy, length of time of a single session, and if any chance for insurance to cover. Oh, do you usually go weekly, monthly, depends?
Monica
I have been practicing my voice. I have missed a few days here and there but I realize that if I cannot sound cis this will make going full-time status not wise, at least for me.
NatalieRene provided some good advice, tone practice videos, a voice app, and even recordings of her beautiful female voice on another voice thread here.
If I remember correctly prior posts here on other threads, at least one on VA veterans plans obtained voice therapy for as little as five dollars but private pay can cost quite a bit more.
Chrissy
I never even checked with my insurance, if they would pay for voice lessons! I have to do this!
I feel that it is way easier for older women like I, to sound more cis than for younger women. Many cis older women tend to have rather low voices, some are even lower than my natural voice is. My natural voice is in the low to median frequency spectrum of female voices, and only my male type speech pattern gives me away/or better, gave me away. I seem to not fall into that anymore lately, because I have no male contact persons left in my environment, and talk with females only. I thus started to loose my male pattern, and acquired the female one (I am told that i sound like the rest of them). Funny enough, I still speak "male" when on the phone, if I want it or not.
Most of the time this is OK, because I am still waiting to receive the judgement of my legal name change! This judgement was signed 1 1/2 weeks ago, and the bureaucrats are not able to get it to me, the courthouse is only 20 miles away, and they will not allow me to pick it up in person!
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 13, 2019, 07:25:21 AM
Just found this thread and apologize if I missed this but I will go back and read in more detail later. Headed out the door soon. Can anyone give a ball park idea of cost of voice therapy, length of time of a single session, and if any chance for insurance to cover. Oh, do you usually go weekly, monthly, depends?
Monica
It's been a while but I believe I was spending $150.00 per session and going once per week.
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 13, 2019, 07:25:21 AM
Just found this thread and apologize if I missed this but I will go back and read in more detail later. Headed out the door soon. Can anyone give a ball park idea of cost of voice therapy, length of time of a single session, and if any chance for insurance to cover. Oh, do you usually go weekly, monthly, depends?
Monica
I found mine through my healthcare provider, and fortuitously ended up with a complete Trans expert. Each 1 hour session through the healthcare provider cost about $300, and insurance paid about $200 of that. I went once a week. It was the best money I ever spent. Interestingly, I have gone to this same SLP privately, and I think her rate was $75/hour. (I say "think" because I give her $100/hour, and it is still the best money I have spent.)
She can do "remote" private sessions over Skype if desired. She is based in California, and has a license only for California. IF anyone here is in California, and would like her contact info, please PM me. She was amazing!
As well for anyone in WA, Sandy Hirsch is famous, and co-wrote the book on this subject. She also does remote sessions, I am told...
Kate
Quote from: KatieP on April 13, 2019, 11:52:06 AM
I found mine through my healthcare provider, and fortuitously ended up with a complete Trans expert. Each 1 hour session through the healthcare provider cost about $300, and insurance paid about $200 of that. I went once a week. It was the best money I ever spent. Interestingly, I have gone to this same SLP privately, and I think her rate was $75/hour. (I say "think" because I give her $100/hour, and it is still the best money I have spent.)
She can do "remote" private sessions over Skype if desired. She is based in California, and has a license only for California. IF anyone here is in California, and would like her contact info, please PM me. She was amazing!
As well for anyone in WA, Sandy Hirsch is famous, and co-wrote the book on this subject. She also does remote sessions, I am told...
Kate
Kate, $300 a hour? I'm in the wrong business! I hope it isn't that expensive. I think it is pretty important to get someone good as bad habits can really screw things up. The therapist I have had recommended will call my insurance to see if they will cover anything.
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 13, 2019, 04:21:34 PM
Kate, $300 a hour? I'm in the wrong business! I hope it isn't that expensive. I think it is pretty important to get someone good as bad habits can really screw things up. The therapist I have had recommended will call my insurance to see if they will cover anything.
Moni,
You could go to this thread
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,243630.0.html
And use radremedy.org to find voice therapy providers.
I do not think that costs are listed at this tool but if there are Web sites to providers that this tool finds for you, perhaps there are prices there on the provider sites.
Chrissy
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 13, 2019, 04:21:34 PM
Kate, $300 a hour? I'm in the wrong business! I hope it isn't that expensive. I think it is pretty important to get someone good as bad habits can really screw things up. The therapist I have had recommended will call my insurance to see if they will cover anything.
I think this is the joy of having insurance. Health care providers send large bills to insurance companies knowing that only some percentage will be paid.
And, it is all about value. I ended up paying about $100/hour out of pocket, and in the end, was VERY happy to have done it.
;D
Kate
I'm getting up the courage to use this microphone in front of me and any number of the various recording software packages I have on my PC so I can finally get an honest opinion on my voice.
My mom says I sound squeaky and fake, but then again, I'm always nervous around her so she's never actually heard my real voice. When I'm nervous, I tense up. It's something I need to work on, for sure.
Quote from: KatieP on April 14, 2019, 12:20:11 AM
I think this is the joy of having insurance. Health care providers send large bills to insurance companies knowing that only some percentage will be paid.
And, it is all about value. I ended up paying about $100/hour out of pocket, and in the end, was VERY happy to have done it.
;D
Kate
Kate, with electrolysis down to two last visits, I could deal with $100 a visit. $300 is another story. I hope to be as happy with it as you seem to be. Chrissy, if this person doesn't work out I'll try out the site you offered. I get the nerves thing, Tribble. I tense up my voice in some situations, with certain people.
Okay, time to face my fear. It's the weekend so I can't call, but I found their website and contact info and I think I'll request a consult. Now, Moni now, you coward!
Good luck, Moni!
I get nervous talking to my wiretaps. :sigh:
Mission accomplished!
Moni, let me know how it goes for you. I still have some time before my ffs recovery will make voice work worthwhile. I expect a month or two before the healing gets to the point that it doesn't effect my voice and work can begin. But hey girl, I am not sure how much you expect to gain, your voice is beautiful to begin with.
Love you sis,
Anne
Quote from: Anne Blake on April 14, 2019, 12:53:50 PM
Moni, let me know how it goes for you. I still have some time before my ffs recovery will make voice work worthwhile. I expect a month or two before the healing gets to the point that it doesn't effect my voice and work can begin. But hey girl, I am not sure how much you expect to gain, your voice is beautiful to begin with.
Love you sis,
Anne
You are too kind my friend. I can at times have a decent voice. It is so unpredictable that it almost seems like a shot in the dark as to what comes out. As a result I get a lot of anxiety. I need mental rules to go by to provide a more consistent guide to a better vocal product. Until I get more confidence in my voice, I will still have an impediment to me relaxing totally as me. It's pretty much my last frontier. To go where no trans woman has gone before. My five year mission... Damn you James T. Kirk, get out of my head. lol
Translated, yeah Anne, I'll let you know.
Love,
Moni
I got a quick reply from the therapist's office. She is on vacation so I'm safe for the time being. lol I got an idea on cost. For the evaluation, it''s $180, then $65 per session. Anyone know what they do in an evaluation? Dissect you? Maybe get a baseline on your vocal range? I hope they don't require using the old voice. That embarrasses me.
Moni
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 15, 2019, 03:39:17 PM
I got a quick reply from the therapist's office. She is on vacation so I'm safe for the time being. lol I got an idea on cost. For the evaluation, it''s $180, then $65 per session. Anyone know what they do in an evaluation? Dissect you? Maybe get a baseline on your vocal range? I hope they don't require using the old voice. That embarrasses me.
Moni
They ask Questions to get a self assessment and then get a baseline to see what they are working with.
Quote from: KatieP on February 25, 2019, 08:23:50 AM
.... I alter my voice not to "please other people" so much as to provide them with more cues to correctly gender me. Whether or not it "should" be this way, it is, and likely will be for a while...
Kate
Thank you for articulating this concept Kate. Much like what we wear, every detail about our presentation can be a cue. People typically do try to determine gender when we meet but any reason we work to change our voice is valid. Of course not changing our voice is valid too.
Ironically one of the best things I gained from my voice lessons was to better understand myself as a person with a non binary gender identity. As I made successful efforts to change my voice I also recognized increasing frustration at again trying to fit into that gender box, this time marked Female. Accepting myself as an amalgam of nature and nurture I fall toward the female end. My comfort zone has grown to embrace being a somewhat femme-androgynous person with a bass voice that fits just fine. Singing, whispering or raising the roof, make your voice heard! ;) ;D
Quote from: Tessa James on April 15, 2019, 04:42:37 PM
Thank you for articulating this concept Kate. Much like what we wear, every detail about our presentation can be a cue. People typically do try to determine gender when we meet but any reason we work to change our voice is valid. Of course not changing our voice is valid too.
Ironically one of the best things I gained from my voice lessons was to better understand myself as a person with a non binary gender identity. As I made successful efforts to change my voice I also recognized increasing frustration at again trying to fit into that gender box, this time marked Female. Accepting myself as an amalgam of nature and nurture I fall toward the female end. My comfort zone has grown to embrace being a somewhat femme-androgynous person with a bass voice that fits just fine. Singing, whispering or raising the roof, make your voice heard! ;) ;D
Wow. Very nice, Tessa!!
And in terms of advocacy and helping to change the culture, I think your approach will have far more impact than mine will ever have.
Thanks for sharing!
Kate
I think I will continue to be my own trainer, and let my cis woman friends be my motivation and checkers!
I waded through many different people in my health insurance, to finally find out that they don't pay for anything voice related!
Quote from: Tessa James on April 15, 2019, 04:42:37 PM
Thank you for articulating this concept Kate. Much like what we wear, every detail about our presentation can be a cue. People typically do try to determine gender when we meet but any reason we work to change our voice is valid. Of course not changing our voice is valid too.
Ironically one of the best things I gained from my voice lessons was to better understand myself as a person with a non binary gender identity. As I made successful efforts to change my voice I also recognized increasing frustration at again trying to fit into that gender box, this time marked Female. Accepting myself as an amalgam of nature and nurture I fall toward the female end. My comfort zone has grown to embrace being a somewhat femme-androgynous person with a bass voice that fits just fine. Singing, whispering or raising the roof, make your voice heard! ;) ;D
In the end, we change our voice or don't change it to please ourselves. The result could be a non binary outcome. It could be not caring to make the effort at all. Whatever! My voice, more accurately, the voice that I picture for me is female. It's weird but I have lost so much transphobia in my transition. So many things I would not be caught doing before (because they were seen as feminine), I now love and do with ease. I still have this one corner of my brain that sees the male way of talking as safe. It scares me to go full on female sounding. The voice is such a window to the soul so
us. I don't get why I want a female voice so badly, yet sabotage it out of fear. I know part of it is the fear of doing it badly. I would be interested if anyone else feels this. It's kind of like dancing as a woman, I think. Until recently, I held myself back from fully dancing in a feminine manner. Reserved would be a good description. I finally got to a "oh hell, just let it go' moment, and it was great. Voice is harder. It's physically and mentally harder to make that leap.
I spoke to a guy from a very male macho portion of my life today. On one hand, I wanted to have a good female voice. On the other, I kept thinking, what is he gonna think of me suddenly talking girly to him. It really makes me realize that my mental adjustment has a ways to go. My hope is with better confidence, this might take care of itself. What ya think?
I am a little different to you here. But I always had a rather high frequency voice, and being around women only for most of the last several years, I am slipping more and more into the female speech. I don't even try to talk male anymore, except, and I don't know why, on the phone!
I am absolutely scarred of dancing. I always was a good dancer and had formal training in ballroom dancing, but I was always the guy, and did the leading! I have no idea how to dance the female part, and am afraid that I might jerk my male partner around, and scare him to death! And because of this fear of not knowing how to do things, I avoid any events with dancing like the plague.
Even assuming I might develop some kind of romantic feelings for guys, I never would meet any because I try to avoid the meeting places!
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 15, 2019, 07:29:18 PM
In the end, we change our voice or don't change it to please ourselves. The result could be a non binary outcome. It could be not caring to make the effort at all. Whatever! My voice, more accurately, the voice that I picture for me is female. It's weird but I have lost so much transphobia in my transition. So many things I would not be caught doing before (because they were seen as feminine), I now love and do with ease. I still have this one corner of my brain that sees the male way of talking as safe. It scares me to go full on female sounding. The voice is such a window to the soul so us. I don't get why I want a female voice so badly, yet sabotage it out of fear. I know part of it is the fear of doing it badly. I would be interested if anyone else feels this. It's kind of like dancing as a woman, I think. Until recently, I held myself back from fully dancing in a feminine manner. Reserved would be a good description. I finally got to a "oh hell, just let it go' moment, and it was great. Voice is harder. It's physically and mentally harder to make that leap.
I spoke to a guy from a very male macho portion of my life today. On one hand, I wanted to have a good female voice. On the other, I kept thinking, what is he gonna think of me suddenly talking girly to him. It really makes me realize that my mental adjustment has a ways to go. My hope is with better confidence, this might take care of itself. What ya think?
For me, my more masculine voice triggers even more dysphoria, so one of my goals is for as perfect a feminine voice as I am able to achieve. It's an internal thing for me and is just part of my perfectionism getting in my own way.
I have a fairly broad range for being AMAB. I used to be able to hit higher notes than my cis ex-wife. I couldn't quite reach the lowest of the low notes that Geoff Tate can hit if you know who that is, but I can still get pretty low. The only time I can scream like Jamie Lee Curtis is if I'm in the middle of a sneeze. Then, LOOK OUT! Ned Flanders time.
Now, if only I could carry a tune. :(
When I detransitioned I briefly took on a job that I had to deal with the public in their own places of business. I would get
really confused and surprised looks with some of the booming bass sounds coming out of this face. On the other hand, my purely natural voice that I guess I'd developed throughout my 29 years living as a male sound exactly like Ira Flatow. When I hear recordings of my spoken voice, I can't tell the difference between him and myself.
I know I can be pretty convincing on the phone, but I'm still far from perfect and I still have tons of tells and it bothers me.
I get especially nervous and tense around friends and family that know my past. I hardly even tried when I was around my dad and even now I have a difficult time not reverting around my mom.
If I can ever afford it, I have hopes that voice coaching will help me with some of these issues. Voice coaching and MH therapy.
Oh. Dancing. You will never, never, never see me on a dance floor. I'm far too OC. Worse than the white people dancing to Bon Jovi the meme!
And to see (hear) just where I am now, here's a link:
https://soundcloud.com/daxix/voicelesson001/s-Z29Hz
I guess I need to download and use a voice analyzer of some sort. I hope I'm able to improve on this someday.
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 15, 2019, 07:29:18 PM
I spoke to a guy from a very male macho portion of my life today. On one hand, I wanted to have a good female voice. On the other, I kept thinking, what is he gonna think of me suddenly talking girly to him. It really makes me realize that my mental adjustment has a ways to go. My hope is with better confidence, this might take care of itself. What ya think?
What's he going to think? He's going to think: It's not the same person I knew. This woman is someone new, and I need to relate to her like I do with other women... ;D
So, even with my orientation being completely lesbian, the more macho the guy, the more I find myself trying to be and sound feminine, and put almost flirty emphasis on certain words and phrases. Not trashy, I believe. But cute maybe. It has worked pretty well even with macho types. I was in South America for a couple months, and even with "Latin Males" that technique was quite disarming to them.
Kate
Quote from: Tribble on April 15, 2019, 10:28:43 PM
For me, my more masculine voice triggers even more dysphoria, so one of my goals is for as perfect a feminine voice as I am able to achieve. It's an internal thing for me and is just part of my perfectionism getting in my own way.
I have a fairly broad range for being AMAB. I used to be able to hit higher notes than my cis ex-wife. I couldn't quite reach the lowest of the low notes that Geoff Tate can hit if you know who that is, but I can still get pretty low. The only time I can scream like Jamie Lee Curtis is if I'm in the middle of a sneeze. Then, LOOK OUT! Ned Flanders time.
Now, if only I could carry a tune. :(
When I detransitioned I briefly took on a job that I had to deal with the public in their own places of business. I would get really confused and surprised looks with some of the booming bass sounds coming out of this face. On the other hand, my purely natural voice that I guess I'd developed throughout my 29 years living as a male sound exactly like Ira Flatow. When I hear recordings of my spoken voice, I can't tell the difference between him and myself.
I know I can be pretty convincing on the phone, but I'm still far from perfect and I still have tons of tells and it bothers me.
I get especially nervous and tense around friends and family that know my past. I hardly even tried when I was around my dad and even now I have a difficult time not reverting around my mom.
If I can ever afford it, I have hopes that voice coaching will help me with some of these issues. Voice coaching and MH therapy.
Oh. Dancing. You will never, never, never see me on a dance floor. I'm far too OC. Worse than the white people dancing to Bon Jovi the meme!
And to see (hear) just where I am now, here's a link:
https://soundcloud.com/daxix/voicelesson001/s-Z29Hz
I guess I need to download and use a voice analyzer of some sort. I hope I'm able to improve on this someday.
You seem like you have a decent pitch. It was hard to tell because it was so quiet but I think the next step is to work on inflection.
Quote from: KatieP on April 16, 2019, 12:01:17 AM
What's he going to think? He's going to think: It's not the same person I knew. This woman is someone new, and I need to relate to her like I do with other women... ;D
So, even with my orientation being completely lesbian, the more macho the guy, the more I find myself trying to be and sound feminine, and put almost flirty emphasis on certain words and phrases. Not trashy, I believe. But cute maybe. It has worked pretty well even with macho types. I was in South America for a couple months, and even with "Latin Males" that technique was quite disarming to them.
Kate
I understand where she is coming from. I noticed when I was talking with my parents that I tended to revert my speech patterns. I had to consciously not and then once I didn't it was natural and it did help my mom to stop misgendering me in public.
It wasn't easy but I can say that the more practice that is put in the easier it is to not revert to make speech patterns.
Thank, you, Natalie! I do need to adjust my levels, somehow. As it is, I have my input gain almost all the way up on my mic and my lips practically touching it. I'll see what I can do.
TBH, this is the first time I've heard my recorded feminine voice since 2003 and it was horrible back then.
I had some Internet issues a moment ago and had to call Comcast. She had zero issues with my voice. I seem to be most comfortable talking on the phone. Mics scare me.
[EDIT] Oops, that was interface input #2 I was adjusting. Figured out my level issues and I'll record something in a little bit. I lost 'Net for a while so I'm just now able to do some stuff again.
Okay, the same clip but I've compressed the hell out of it. Sorry. :(
At least we should be able to hear it now.
https://soundcloud.com/daxix/voicelesson02/s-GVd3i
Quote from: KatieP on April 16, 2019, 12:01:17 AM
What's he going to think? He's going to think: It's not the same person I knew. This woman is someone new, and I need to relate to her like I do with other women... ;D
So, even with my orientation being completely lesbian, the more macho the guy, the more I find myself trying to be and sound feminine, and put almost flirty emphasis on certain words and phrases. Not trashy, I believe. But cute maybe. It has worked pretty well even with macho types. I was in South America for a couple months, and even with "Latin Males" that technique was quite disarming to them.
Kate
Thanks Kate,
I think guys from that period of time (the macho days) accept me on a logical basis. Emotionally, they still are adjusting to 'me.' They don't see me everyday, just once in a while. It's great that you mentioned the flirty aspect because you may have hit on part of my problem. I think I am afraid that I will come off as flirty with my lack of control and confidence. I would die if my old boss thought I was flirting with him. Too weird for either of us. If my orientation hadn't taken it's shift, maybe I would dismiss this possibility easier. In general, I am interested in flirting with guys now. (Not ones I knew before though.) Funny, I put this off so long, now I can't wait to start tackling this. I am realizing how limiting I am socially due to my voice.
It would be funny if you had a hidden camera and like an announcer from one of the old wild life shows. "Now watch as the transgender female tries to vocalize. The male of the species meanwhile, seems to be trying to figure out how to adjust to this radically new environment." I can see him relating to me on old terms, with old references. Then, wait, that doesn't quite fit any more. Now, what's the new nickname, oh crap almost said the old name. Wow, it must be pretty confusing. I just don't want, "Is she flirting with me, yuck!" lol Thanks Kate, you helped me figure out part of this. The mental part anyway. @KatieP
Quote from: Tribble on April 16, 2019, 09:36:28 AM
Okay, the same clip but I've compressed the hell out of it. Sorry. :(
At least we should be able to hear it now.
https://soundcloud.com/daxix/voicelesson02/s-GVd3i
Ok that is much easier to hear. ;D
You have your pitch up but I'm not sure if it is falsetto.
What you need to do is work on resonance. You want the vibration to come from your throat and not your chest. Take two fingers and put them under your chin touching your neck. When you speak move the vibration up to your throat.
You also need to work on inflection. You'll want to practice utilizing pitch for emphasis rather then loudness. This bit is a little harder but if you can master it it will be very effective.
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 16, 2019, 10:21:09 AM
Thanks Kate,
I think guys from that period of time (the macho days) accept me on a logical basis. Emotionally, they still are adjusting to 'me.' They don't see me everyday, just once in a while. It's great that you mentioned the flirty aspect because you may have hit on part of my problem. I think I am afraid that I will come off as flirty with my lack of control and confidence. I would die if my old boss thought I was flirting with him. Too weird for either of us. If my orientation hadn't taken it's shift, maybe I would dismiss this possibility easier. In general, I am interested in flirting with guys now. (Not ones I knew before though.) Funny, I put this off so long, now I can't wait to start tackling this. I am realizing how limiting I am socially due to my voice.
It would be funny if you had a hidden camera and like an announcer from one of the old wild life shows. "Now watch as the transgender female tries to vocalize. The male of the species meanwhile, seems to be trying to figure out how to adjust to this radically new environment." I can see him relating to me on old terms, with old references. Then, wait, that doesn't quite fit any more. Now, what's the new nickname, oh crap almost said the old name. Wow, it must be pretty confusing. I just don't want, "Is she flirting with me, yuck!" lol Thanks Kate, you helped me figure out part of this. The mental part anyway. @KatieP
I can totally see it! :icon_lol:
Adjusting to people from your past, whether it's friends or family, can be really trying for all of us.
Quote from: NatalieRene on April 16, 2019, 10:44:06 AM
Ok that is much easier to hear. ;D
You have your pitch up but I'm not sure if it is falsetto.
What you need to do is work on resonance. You want the vibration to come from your throat and not your chest. Take two fingers and put them under your chin touching your neck. When you speak move the vibration up to your throat.
You also need to work on inflection. You'll want to practice utilizing pitch for emphasis rather then loudness. This bit is a little harder but if you can master it it will be very effective.
Thank you. I definitely need to work on resonance, that's for sure.
What I will say is that I had to be kind of quiet when I was recording that as sound travels in this house like we had no walls at all and someone was sleeping (or trying to), so my voice wasn't
quite my normal speaking voice. No, it's not falsetto, but I do need to work on all of my ranges and volumes.
I've started to watch a bunch of YT videos and I'll be working on this constantly.
I was just visiting my mom and I was chatting up a storm because I'm hopped up on caffeine. I told her I heard my recorded voice for the first time in 16 years and how I knew it was
horrible! She told me I didn't sound horrible at all while I was there and sounded pretty natural. I know the window guy didn't think twice. I guess I was really tense last night (microphones scare me! almost if not more than people from my past do!). I'll try to get a new recording in my more natural tone and resonance, but I think I'll be starting a voice training diary for further posts.
I really appreciate your suggestions! :)
No problem. Let me know if you want to practice and we can practice. At one point there was going to be a group of us doing a Skype thing but I believe that Susans Discord server has voice chat rooms. I'm happy to help whenever.
I'd love it!
Quote from: Tribble on April 16, 2019, 12:27:31 PM
I'd love it!
Alright. I used ally get off the phone with my boyfriend around 9:30PM CST. I can hop on discord and we can practice your voice.
Quote from: NatalieRene on April 16, 2019, 12:51:50 PM
Alright. I used ally get off the phone with my boyfriend around 9:30PM CST. I can hop on discord and we can practice your voice.
Shall we all meet on discord once in a while? I just bought a decent microphone and still need to install it!
Than you can hear how a tired old lady sounds!
Quote from: Dietlind on April 16, 2019, 02:22:42 PM
Shall we all meet on discord once in a while? I just bought a decent microphone and still need to install it!
Than you can hear how a tired old lady sounds!
Sure!
Quote from: NatalieRene on April 16, 2019, 12:51:50 PM
Alright. I used ally get off the phone with my boyfriend around 9:30PM CST. I can hop on discord and we can practice your voice.
I'm busy until a little after 10 pm CST tonight. My husband and I watch The Rookie.
I would have replied sooner, but I went to bed almost right after replying. I didn't sleep last night.
It's cool I'll hop in around 9:30CSt but I'll be up until midnight.
Quote from: HappyMoni on April 14, 2019, 10:04:42 AM
Kate, with electrolysis down to two last visits, I could deal with $100 a visit. $300 is another story. I hope to be as happy with it as you seem to be. Chrissy, if this person doesn't work out I'll try out the site you offered. I get the nerves thing, Tribble. I tense up my voice in some situations, with certain people.
Okay, time to face my fear. It's the weekend so I can't call, but I found their website and contact info and I think I'll request a consult. Now, Moni now, you coward!
I thought I would update on the voice therapy idea. I had my evaluation today. My insurance pays for it but not for therapy. My session was about an hour. I was surprised about how many questions involved the context of how voice fits into my life. She was quite pleasant. She has never worked with a trans client as far along in transition as I am. Toward the end, there was some vocal testing. She said she was surprised at my vocal range. She seemed to be excited about the possibility for improvement. It was very encouraging. She told me she would not sugarcoat anything. I told her I would not let anything go by that I didn't understand. I appreciated her honesty. I am very aware how unaware I am about where my voice is every time I open my mouth. It is hard to be consistent like that. She is looking to raise my pitch some, but not to an unnatural level. I left there excited but still nervous that I may not be as capable as she thinks I am. I have my first session in two weeks. If it is noteworthy,I'll write about it.
Quote from: HappyMoni on May 06, 2019, 09:26:18 PM
I thought I would update on the voice therapy idea. I had my evaluation today. My insurance pays for it but not for therapy. My session was about an hour. I was surprised about how many questions involved the context of how voice fits into my life. She was quite pleasant. She has never worked with a trans client as far along in transition as I am. Toward the end, there was some vocal testing. She said she was surprised at my vocal range. She seemed to be excited about the possibility for improvement. It was very encouraging. She told me she would not sugarcoat anything. I told her I would not let anything go by that I didn't understand. I appreciated her honesty. I am very aware how unaware I am about where my voice is every time I open my mouth. It is hard to be consistent like that. She is looking to raise my pitch some, but not to an unnatural level. I left there excited but still nervous that I may not be as capable as she thinks I am. I have my first session in two weeks. If it is noteworthy,I'll write about it.
I hope you get the results out of it you are looking for!
Some of us meet regularly on Skype and do some yapping, and we correct each other if we slip into the male side of voice conversation.
I think that helps a lot, and I can talk now for hours in a row with my female voice (the others can do this, too). We don't talk about specific subjects, we just talk about anything w want to talk about or can think about. This way there is no artificial skeleton applied to our talking, and it is like real life conversations.
You may want to see if you can establish a similar group, and get really going with using your voice, it is lots of fun, and after a little while it carries over into your daily life!
Try it, it is fun!
Linde
I started voice therapy back in September last year. I feel I have made some progress but now I feel I have hit a wall. I have reached the point where my average pitch range is natural and around 200 hertz, give or take 10 hertz. I have also developed the muscle memory to keep my larynx naturally high.
I honestly didn't think I could achieve this but it is now difficult and uncomfortable to revert back to my old voice. However, I'm still not happy with the tone quality of my voice. My therapist tells my I'm my worst critic but I think she is just being nice. The pitch and intonation are fine but I can't stand what I hear in playback.
Learning to naturally keep my larynx high has helped a little with my tone quality but I feel I have hit a wall and have not made any progress the past two months. I have already talked to my therapist about this. I have one more appointment with her where I will thank her for her help but will not continue with therapy. Or perhaps I can do better with another therapist?
At this point I feel stuck.
Donica,
It makes sense to switch it up. I do believe it is rare that anyone likes their own voice though. I go for my first session Wednesday.
Quote from: HappyMoni on May 12, 2019, 11:12:39 AM
I go for my first session Wednesday.
Wooo Hoooo!!!!
I hope the results (eventually) astound you!
;D
Kate
Quote from: KatieP on May 12, 2019, 11:08:35 PM
Wooo Hoooo!!!!
I hope the results (eventually) astound you!
;D
Kate
Kate, I'll settle for being totally amazed. lol