so, hi everyone! i was born male, 26, didn't really think much about my gender and stuff growing up. slowly over the years i've related more to femininity than masculinity, also in the way I think and feel about myself. i've also been "blessed" with wider hips than most guys, something i freaked out about at first when someone pointed it out, but came to love over the years. it always felt really good when I wore clothes that accentuated them.
I've noticed I could easily relate to trans girls as far as wanting to be more feminine, beautiful and "be something else", but not as far as transitioning or looking at myself as a girl.
lately i've been talking to someone who suggested that i may be genderqueer/non-binary and encouraged me to look more into it, well, that led to about 3 weeks of confusion, anxiety and bad stuff.
it's been a month since i first freaked out and i've learned a bit since then, i think genderqueer feels like the closest match, but there's still a lot of confusion sometimes.
like, i've noticed i don't like the idea of being typically masculine or a typical man, but maybe i just have a very traditional/hyper masculine stereotype in my head? i've also noticed i don't like being called a man (guy or boy is fine though, so maybe that's just more weird stereotypes or associations?)
being called "handsome" is "eh, whatever"
being called "cute" makes me feel amazing
i would prefer to have a more feminine body as far as hips, waist, legs, but i don't want breasts.
right now, I don't feel like moving between genders as much as nudging everything towards the feminine, but i don't want to pass as a girl. i think I'm fine just wearing more feminine "guy clothes": longer shirts and sweaters, softer colours and so on. Girls clothes and makeup I'm not sure of, although i recently had the urge to try makeup or clothes to cheer me up when I was feeling depressed, that thought came out of nowhere and scared me.
i don't know how much dysphoria I have, if any, I'm mostly fine with the way my body is, but I'm sometimes terrified of getting older and losing my femininity, losing my hair or becoming something I don't want to be. i've also started trimming my body hair more regularly, luckily it's pretty light, I'd probably feel worse if it was dark.
i don't feel comfortable yet expressing myself in a more feminine way out in public, but i'm slowly experimenting with things alone.
i'm still afraid i'm going to look weird or not be able to be like the image i have of myself in my head, though.
anyone? i'd really appreciate any input!
No one can figure it out but you. A counselor may also help. LGBT friends and allies may help.
I can sort of relate from the other side. I identify as a demi male (someone who identifies as mostly male but also somewhat another gender identity; for me the other is agender). Because I feel mostly male I need T to feel right. I like some of the changes but not others, as I feel uncomfortable look masculine most of the time. I often feel the need to look fem. Having an androgynous body would be my ideal. It's the best compromise for me. It took me years to figure out what I was and there's no rush.
Some trans people never medically transition and simply socially transition. Which is still valid. Just concentrate for now on what presentation makes you most comfortable right now.
Quote from: Elis on December 26, 2017, 11:07:29 AM
Some trans people never medically transition and simply socially transition. Which is still valid. Just concentrate for now on what presentation makes you most comfortable right now.
it's still very confusing, but i think that's a good place to start, yes :)
thanks both of you :)
Agreed, you can live as your target gender, or blend of gender, or lack of gender, without going anywhere near a doctor. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I took a very gradual approach, I went from occasional dressing in private to living full-time in my chosen gender over about 2.5 years. All that without any medical stuff, as I started HRT after going full-time.
All along that process, I'd take a step, pause, reflect on my feelings and move forward when I felt I needed to.
Good luck. X
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 27, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
Agreed, you can live as your target gender, or blend of gender, or lack of gender, without going anywhere near a doctor. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
yeah, right now, i don't think there's a need to do anything drastic. as i wrote, i'm mostly comfortable with my body, and since i already have quite wide hips, that goes a long way :) for now, just getting comfortable dressing/acting the way i want is enough i think.
Experimenting is good way to get to know how you feel about things. Like if you have have the urge to try putting on make-up, just try it. It's not gonna hurt anything. And it might give some more insight to what you want. When I was still back in my denial phase, I had some of these same kind of feeling, and I wasn't able to really figure anything out until I tried it out. Maybe you're like me, maybe you just like the idea of being able to make yourself pretty, maybe you only have some days you feel more girly, maybe you just hate gender stereo types. You can't rally know until you just go for it and try it.
Quote from: Megan. on December 27, 2017, 02:42:04 PM
I took a very gradual approach, I went from occasional dressing in private to living full-time in my chosen gender over about 2.5 years. All that without any medical stuff, as I started HRT after going full-time.
All along that process, I'd take a step, pause, reflect on my feelings and move forward when I felt I needed to.
Good luck. X
yeah, i guess i have to accept that it's going to take time. honestly, lately i'm more caught up in trying to understand everything and figuring it out in my head. maybe i need to just put that to the side and just experiment/do stuff and see how it feels
thank you :)
Quote from: Yakayla on December 27, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Experimenting is good way to get to know how you feel about things. Like if you have have the urge to try putting on make-up, just try it. It's not gonna hurt anything. And it might give some more insight to what you want. When I was still back in my denial phase, I had some of these same kind of feeling, and I wasn't able to really figure anything out until I tried it out. Maybe you're like me, maybe you just like the idea of being able to make yourself pretty, maybe you only have some days you feel more girly, maybe you just hate gender stereo types. You can't rally know until you just go for it and try it.
yeah, maybe :) yeah, i have to get out of my head and try things out, even though i'm kinda nervous about it.
thank you :)
thank you everyone for your replies so far :)
It sounds to me a little like what you're trying to do is match your experiences to those of others in the hopes of finding some category that will precisely explain and predict everything. And that's only natural, because much as the ready-made explanations and expectations of the "male" category are obviously inadequate for you, it's also very disorienting to be without all the ready-made explanations and expectations of any categories whatsoever.
For better or for worse, though, all these things you talk about can vary independently. Some things tend to go together, but there's no iron laws. To take myself as an example: I'm taking MTF hormones right now and loving it, best decision I ever made—but I have no desire for "girly" things like, say, dresses or nail polish, and while I wear women's clothing, my idea of women's clothing is closer to the women's section at a hardware store clothing aisle than the women's section at Macy's. Oh and I do very much like my face better with no facial hair, so I'm getting laser, but I pretty much don't care about what my voice sounds like. So what does that make me?
Beats me. Your guess is as good as mine. And that's fine by me.
But I'm not going to wait to do the things that I clearly need to do to make my life worthwhile simply because I don't fit into some puny category.
And that, in some sense, is what "genderqueer" is. To me at least. Which means that just by not caring about categories nearly as much as about figuring out what makes me feel like a human for a change, I just assigned myself to a category!
I don't mean to make this about me, though. I just want to give me as an example.
I strongly recommend Dara Hoffman-Fox's book "You and Your Gender Identity," and their blog and videos, because they do an excellent job helping you take a step back from the Grand Categorical Question of Identity and to examine each aspect separately, and learn to take each aspect seriously separately, without requiring everything to be first validated by a category—and then, maybe, at the end, to use the categories, whether they be male/female or less traditional ones, as a description of all the things you discovered, as something to build community around, as something to feel proud of... but never as a new confining box that is going to tell you how to live.
Quote from: hanniesipma on December 29, 2017, 08:47:29 PM
It sounds to me a little like what you're trying to do is match your experiences to those of others in the hopes of finding some category that will precisely explain and predict everything. And that's only natural, because much as the ready-made explanations and expectations of the "male" category are obviously inadequate for you, it's also very disorienting to be without all the ready-made explanations and expectations of any categories whatsoever.
For better or for worse, though, all these things you talk about can vary independently. Some things tend to go together, but there's no iron laws. To take myself as an example: I'm taking MTF hormones right now and loving it, best decision I ever made—but I have no desire for "girly" things like, say, dresses or nail polish, and while I wear women's clothing, my idea of women's clothing is closer to the women's section at a hardware store clothing aisle than the women's section at Macy's. Oh and I do very much like my face better with no facial hair, so I'm getting laser, but I pretty much don't care about what my voice sounds like. So what does that make me?
Beats me. Your guess is as good as mine. And that's fine by me.
But I'm not going to wait to do the things that I clearly need to do to make my life worthwhile simply because I don't fit into some puny category.
And that, in some sense, is what "genderqueer" is. To me at least. Which means that just by not caring about categories nearly as much as about figuring out what makes me feel like a human for a change, I just assigned myself to a category!
I don't mean to make this about me, though. I just want to give me as an example.
I strongly recommend Dara Hoffman-Fox's book "You and Your Gender Identity," and their blog and videos, because they do an excellent job helping you take a step back from the Grand Categorical Question of Identity and to examine each aspect separately, and learn to take each aspect seriously separately, without requiring everything to be first validated by a category—and then, maybe, at the end, to use the categories, whether they be male/female or less traditional ones, as a description of all the things you discovered, as something to build community around, as something to feel proud of... but never as a new confining box that is going to tell you how to live.
Hi hanniesipma
Welcome to Susans
Great to see you jumping in with a couple of really well thought out answers. Why don't you drop by our Introduction Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) and tell us a little more about yourself.
Here are a few links we give to all new members that explain the posting rules and when you can do things like send a PM and change your Avatar
Quote
Things that you should read
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Quote from: hanniesipma on December 29, 2017, 08:47:29 PM
It sounds to me a little like what you're trying to do is match your experiences to those of others in the hopes of finding some category that will precisely explain and predict everything. And that's only natural, because much as the ready-made explanations and expectations of the "male" category are obviously inadequate for you, it's also very disorienting to be without all the ready-made explanations and expectations of any categories whatsoever.
For better or for worse, though, all these things you talk about can vary independently. Some things tend to go together, but there's no iron laws. To take myself as an example: I'm taking MTF hormones right now and loving it, best decision I ever made—but I have no desire for "girly" things like, say, dresses or nail polish, and while I wear women's clothing, my idea of women's clothing is closer to the women's section at a hardware store clothing aisle than the women's section at Macy's. Oh and I do very much like my face better with no facial hair, so I'm getting laser, but I pretty much don't care about what my voice sounds like. So what does that make me?
Beats me. Your guess is as good as mine. And that's fine by me.
But I'm not going to wait to do the things that I clearly need to do to make my life worthwhile simply because I don't fit into some puny category.
And that, in some sense, is what "genderqueer" is. To me at least. Which means that just by not caring about categories nearly as much as about figuring out what makes me feel like a human for a change, I just assigned myself to a category!
I don't mean to make this about me, though. I just want to give me as an example.
I strongly recommend Dara Hoffman-Fox's book "You and Your Gender Identity," and their blog and videos, because they do an excellent job helping you take a step back from the Grand Categorical Question of Identity and to examine each aspect separately, and learn to take each aspect seriously separately, without requiring everything to be first validated by a category—and then, maybe, at the end, to use the categories, whether they be male/female or less traditional ones, as a description of all the things you discovered, as something to build community around, as something to feel proud of... but never as a new confining box that is going to tell you how to live.
thank you for your input :) i checked out Hoffman-Fox's blog, it'll be a huge help, thanks :)
Hi Finn
Dara Hoffman-Fox's book "You and Your Gender Identity" Was a recommendation to me by our question king, PurpleWolf. I ordered it after not being able to find it in electronic form. I discovered why once it arrived. It is a work book with questions and exercises to help you explore and figure out what your gender identity might be. I have just started it and have not yet gotten to the actual workbook part of the book so I can't really tell you more about it. Hope it helps.
Hugs,
Laurie
Quote from: Laurie on December 30, 2017, 12:49:39 PM
Hi Finn
Dara Hoffman-Fox's book "You and Your Gender Identity" Was a recommendation to me by our question king, PurpleWolf. I ordered it after not being able to find it in electronic form. I discovered why once it arrived. It is a work book with questions and exercises to help you explore and figure out what your gender identity might be. I have just started it and have not yet gotten to the actual workbook part of the book so I can't really tell you more about it. Hope it helps.
Hugs,
Laurie
thanks :) i've been reading Hoffman-Fox's blog a bit and found it very helpful, i'll probably look into buying the book eventually too ;)
Quote from: Finn199 on December 12, 2017, 01:18:57 PM
so, hi everyone! i was born male, 26, didn't really think much about my gender and stuff growing up. slowly over the years i've related more to femininity than masculinity, also in the way I think and feel about myself. i've also been "blessed" with wider hips than most guys, something i freaked out about at first when someone pointed it out, but came to love over the years. it always felt really good when I wore clothes that accentuated them.
I've noticed I could easily relate to trans girls as far as wanting to be more feminine, beautiful and "be something else", but not as far as transitioning or looking at myself as a girl.
lately i've been talking to someone who suggested that i may be genderqueer/non-binary and encouraged me to look more into it, well, that led to about 3 weeks of confusion, anxiety and bad stuff.
it's been a month since i first freaked out and i've learned a bit since then, i think genderqueer feels like the closest match, but there's still a lot of confusion sometimes.
I think it's better to not get too hung up on the labels, as they caused me a lot of anxiety and confusion when I first started exploring non-binary genders. I am whatever I am, and there probably isn't anyone with exactly the same mix of masculine and feminine attributes as me, though some are similar. I like to think of it like this, I am feminine in many ways, and masculine in some other ways.
Quote
like, i've noticed i don't like the idea of being typically masculine or a typical man, but maybe i just have a very traditional/hyper masculine stereotype in my head? i've also noticed i don't like being called a man (guy or boy is fine though, so maybe that's just more weird stereotypes or associations?)
being called "handsome" is "eh, whatever"
being called "cute" makes me feel amazing
Boy or guy bothers me a lot less than man also.
Quote
i would prefer to have a more feminine body as far as hips, waist, legs, but i don't want breasts.
right now, I don't feel like moving between genders as much as nudging everything towards the feminine, but i don't want to pass as a girl. i think I'm fine just wearing more feminine "guy clothes": longer shirts and sweaters, softer colours and so on. Girls clothes and makeup I'm not sure of, although i recently had the urge to try makeup or clothes to cheer me up when I was feeling depressed, that thought came out of nowhere and scared me.
i don't know how much dysphoria I have, if any, I'm mostly fine with the way my body is, but I'm sometimes terrified of getting older and losing my femininity, losing my hair or becoming something I don't want to be. i've also started trimming my body hair more regularly, luckily it's pretty light, I'd probably feel worse if it was dark.
i don't feel comfortable yet expressing myself in a more feminine way out in public, but i'm slowly experimenting with things alone.
i'm still afraid i'm going to look weird or not be able to be like the image i have of myself in my head, though.
It took me a very long time to slowly start going out more and more feminine and I'm still not real comfortable going out totally en femme. I may never be, I don't feel it's quite me, I have a vision of what I want to look and be like too, and you know what, even if I don't quite get there, I think I'm giving people the general idea. Follow your image, though try being a little flexible with it, especially as when you are experimenting, it takes a bit of trial and error, a lot of things end up not looking quite how you imagined they would.
I started here at Susan's with non-binary as how I identified myself. I saw myself on a sliding scale from one extreme to the other. There were stops on it that I felt most comfortable at. I was afraid though of going off one of the ends. Susan's, and I mean all the wonderful people here, has given me balance on this scale. My starting hormone therapy is the reason I am here seeking answers or at least ideas. I was afraid of derailing my life with it. My meds have given me a new look at life. I now see myself as how I feel. I know my breasts will grow, but I think that's a small price to pay for sanity. I plan to continue as myself, not worrying what I'll look like. I will be who I am. If someone sirs me, it's fine. If someone ma'ams me that's fine too.
More female on the scale most of the time, Jess
Hey there.... I understand the confusion...like for myself its how the hrt effects my mind
I always catch my self window shopping at femmine attire ....yet in the same breath i love my heavy metal bling
but i love makeup im growing breasts i like them but prefer they not be obvious
Sometimes i feel femmine and other times male its almost bipolar atm im in male.mode waiting for ffs in mexico
and im telling.myself its cool its what we agreed upon .....whew
I cant articulate it but i think i know how you feel ... at least the confusion bit
Ps i agree with jessica about the sanity thing .....id forgotten about that..and totally agree....thanks jess
it's been a couple months now, i still haven't experimented that much, just basic things like shaving/trimming body and facial hair (god, my neck is so red and full of bumps :P). also just trying to be more comfortable acting more feminine with people i know, very slowly. i've also noticed a need to not just act more feminine, but be perceived and treated that way too. right now, i'm a little stuck though, i don't really feel in the mood to do anything and i don't quite know what to do next.
i've had some semi-dysphoric moments though, the last one happening after i shaved my legs smooth for the first time, i just thought my legs looked sickly, pale and almost disgusting. i'm also losing weight, so my thighs are getting harder and firmer, and i kind of freaked. i want to be more soft, not hard or bulky. i had to look in the mirror and focus on my hips and how they at least give me somewhat of a feminine figure, that helped :(
i'm confused as to why i'm suddenly dysphoric (if that is what it is, i don't want to throw that word around lightly)
it didn't really bother me that much before.
Quote from: markie on January 02, 2018, 08:41:48 PM
Hey there.... I understand the confusion...like for myself its how the hrt effects my mind
I always catch my self window shopping at femmine attire ....yet in the same breath i love my heavy metal bling
but i love makeup im growing breasts i like them but prefer they not be obvious
Sometimes i feel femmine and other times male its almost bipolar atm im in male.mode waiting for ffs in mexico
and im telling.myself its cool its what we agreed upon .....whew
I cant articulate it but i think i know how you feel ... at least the confusion bit
Ps i agree with jessica about the sanity thing .....id forgotten about that..and totally agree....thanks jess
yeah, confusion comes and goes, i haven't done a lot of experimenting lately so it's not as bad now, i guess.
by the way, Markie, i read your "thinking out loud" thread one night and at points i felt so much for you, i wanted to hug you so bad! i hope things will work out :)
Quote from: Finn199 on January 03, 2018, 07:36:14 AM
it's been a couple months now, i still haven't experimented that much, just basic things like shaving/trimming body and facial hair (god, my neck is so red and full of bumps :P). also just trying to be more comfortable acting more feminine with people i know, very slowly. i've also noticed a need to not just act more feminine, but be perceived and treated that way too. right now, i'm a little stuck though, i don't really feel in the mood to do anything and i don't quite know what to do next.
i've had some semi-dysphoric moments though, the last one happening after i shaved my legs smooth for the first time, i just thought my legs looked sickly, pale and almost disgusting. i'm also losing weight, so my thighs are getting harder and firmer, and i kind of freaked. i want to be more soft, not hard or bulky. i had to look in the mirror and focus on my hips and how they at least give me somewhat of a feminine figure, that helped :(
i'm confused as to why i'm suddenly dysphoric (if that is what it is, i don't want to throw that word around lightly)
it didn't really bother me that much before.
Hon, that's dysphoria.
It's nasty... and don't worry about using the term. It's a horror show because it's all pervasive, the proverbial grit in the shoe, a constant irritation, and no matter what you do, it's always there... :( and you only discover it by accident... :( the good news is that you can find ways to make yourself feel better, by experimenting with things, to see what helps :)
Rowan
Quote from: Sno on January 03, 2018, 03:57:19 PM
Hon, that's dysphoria.
It's nasty... and don't worry about using the term. It's a horror show because it's all pervasive, the proverbial grit in the shoe, a constant irritation, and no matter what you do, it's always there... :( and you only discover it by accident... :( the good news is that you can find ways to make yourself feel better, by experimenting with things, to see what helps :)
Rowan
ok, at least i know what it is now, thanks. it's not too bad, i'm fine most of the time, i've only had a few "episodes" and they weren't too intense. when i'm in it though, i'm thinking of hormones and stuff, like i have to hurry before i get too old or something (and i'm only 26 :P ). but it's way too early for me to know what i want, i think. i don't like that i'm getting more concerned with my looks and body image, though. i don't want to be dependent on that to feel good. to me, it feels like i'm just getting more superficial?
Quote from: Finn199 on January 03, 2018, 07:57:13 AM
yeah, confusion comes and goes, i haven't done a lot of experimenting lately so it's not as bad now, i guess.
by the way, Markie, i read your "thinking out loud" thread one night and at points i felt so much for you, i wanted to hug you so bad! i hope things will work out :)
Aww thank you so much💕👍
Btw for me make up helps and also being around females 😊
Quote from: markie on January 03, 2018, 06:29:15 PM
Btw for me make up helps and also being around females 😊
yeah, i need more female friends, maybe i would've figured things out sooner if i had them growing up :P
i have one female friend i trust though, she has even promised to help me try out makeup when i'm ready :)
i'm both excited and terrified :P
Go for it friend youll love it 😊
i'm not sure what to hope for :P this is all still so new and scary, even if i do like it i'll still probably freak out :P
Only one way to find out.....i remember my first appointment to see a doc about hrt ......i was petrified .....i was thinking is this me ? Scared !! What how can this be lol....
I found out that a makeover was much easier than that ,
I dont know what your age is .....but dont waste time ....i lost a year to various fears, people , etc
Nothing ventured nothing gained
Btw i started on low dose hrt that does not cause physical changes ....but wow does it calm the mind
Quote from: markie on January 07, 2018, 12:37:29 PM
Only one way to find out.....i remember my first appointment to see a doc about hrt ......i was petrified .....i was thinking is this me ? Scared !! What how can this be lol....
I found out that a makeover was much easier than that ,
I dont know what your age is .....but dont waste time ....i lost a year to various fears, people , etc
Nothing ventured nothing gained
Btw i started on low dose hrt that does not cause physical changes ....but wow does it calm the mind
yeah, i see what you're saying ;)
i'm 26 ;) when i first started questioning 2 months ago, i was freaking out about getting older, what if i start losing my hair, what if i end up looking too masculine, what if it's too late, what if i have lost my chance to be pretty/cute etc. luckily i'm not that freaked now, i'm still young, i reckon i have some time and i need it to figure out what to do.
i think i'm very slowly getting more comfortable with the thought of hormones at least, but i haven't really looked into it or researched it yet.
haha, i had this burst of girly-ness some days ago though where i thought about how i would look with a more girly body, and it made me sooo happy and i was giggling and i felt so good :P
Well.your lucky 😊 you have time to choose your mode/modes my masculine traits did not kick in until after 30 i know what you mean about that abrupt change of gender im here in mexico waiting to get ffs
In 2 days ..made up my mind in femme mode..and im feeling male not girly at all atm...oh actually both atm ....hell😅
yeah, i'm still unsure of how my modes work, or if i even have different modes :P
i'm so used to being a "guy" so i probably don't even think about it that much, but i'm much more interested in exploring my girly side. right now, that side comes and goes, i'm more girly when i'm really happy or listening to certain kinds of music or just at random times throughout the day, but it doesn't stick around for long. and i miss it sometimes, because i'm so much more expressive and bubbly in that mood :)
wow, that must be frustrating :P to the point where you feel like backing out of it?
True earlier on i thought what the hell am i doing ......but i only have to look in the mirror and i know why anyway it will be an enhancement
a face like mine cannot be truly femminised without it looking out of place on my frame ...androgynous rejuvenation is what i am aiming for ....just going to keep it real world 😉 at 54 this is really the only shot i have its now or never
yeah, i see. well, good luck! i hope you'll be happy with the result! :)
so, i've been a little frustrated that i haven't really been feeling girly lately. before, i had some things i could wear that made me really feel it, but those things don't have the same effect anymore. some of it may also be my general mood being not the best lately.
i've also had some weird moments where i'm really restless, i have to constantly move my body and i'm either breathing really fast or heavy. i feel like i have to do something, but in that moment i'm not sure what. it's not super intense and it's not like my mind is racing or i'm anxious, but if i really go into it, it feels like i'm going to cry, but i can't quite get there.
this has led me to looking more at clothes. looking at girl's clothes made me kinda uncomfortable before, but i've slowly begun to find things i like and i've actually ordered some (some sweaters that don't look too "girly", but are still cute). i hope that will help. at the same time, i'm afraid my dysphoria will get worse if they don't fit right or if i look weird :(