I was away for a week at a music and dance camp where most people come back year after year, so I know a lot of them and they know me. It's a very supportive group and a place where I feel comfortable just being me, or at least more comfortable than in most places. I've been pretty much accepted as a woman, as far as I can tell.
But every now and then, I'd be talking with people at dinner, or in a dance, and I'd have this sudden feeling that I'm a guy. I'm not sure exactly what I mean by that, it's just this flash in my head. And whenever it happened, I felt really dismayed. I guess I've still got it in my head somewhere that "success" means being effectively a woman, in some sense, and I fear that I'm "really" just a man in a dress, that when I think I'm being me I'm really just pretending. Somehow my only two choices are to "really" be a woman or "really" be a man, and I'm just too worthless to be a woman.
It's also distressing that, despite everything I can say about how "woman" and "man" aren't clear-cut categories, to the point that "real man" and "real woman" don't have anything to do with reality (aside from social constructs), in my heart of hearts I'm stuck in the binary. And stuck in feeling like I'm not worthy to be either.
I think I'm making this all sound more coherent than it is. Really, I'm just roiling around like a water drop on a hot griddle. And when I'm sounding coherent and rational, it's only because I've managed to more or less repress the tumbling chaos underneath.
It sounds like you're struggling to understand, inside youself, what non-binary really means. Or maybe because I'm having that same struggle, I'm reading it into your post.
For myself, about the same age as you, some days I'm comfortable as a man, especially when I am being with my (separated) wife or at work. Other days, I'm female all day. Sometimes I dress halfway, and I often don't try to cover my beard shadow. I went to a concert the other night wearing sandals with painted toenails, women's jeans and a sorta-femme t-shirt, but no hat on my bald head. Is this being non-binary? Maybe, or maybe it's just being myself. Same thing I guess.
Are you uncomfortable presenting male? That might be a key question.
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I'm not comfortable presenting as male or being seen as male.
Having to put up a false, semi-male front (and stifle every impulse) felt like a prison, and the idea of being sucked back into that feels dreadful. I don't know if the "feeling like a guy" is about returning to that or not.
So what I get is, deep inside it feels to you that the binary is still valid, but your conscious is fighting that and trying to be non-binary. Nearly all of us grew up in the binary -- NB didn't even exist in our worlds. It's a fairly new concept, at least to me. So it's going to take time and work to internalize it.
But if you're uncomfortable presenting male, you probably need to be clear to yourself where your comfort boundary lies. If it's pretty far from male, then perhaps NB doesn't really apply. Are you just saying you're NB because you're also uncomfortable presenting female? Some of us have a hard time establishing our position on the gender spectrum (at least I do).
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What your feeling isn't unique. When I was in transition I would occasionally get that guy dressed in women's clothing feeling. Part of the problem is being pre surgical is a reminder of your past. The other part of the problem is having a long history as your birth gender. I was able to rationalize the feeling because I knew that being male wasn't an option for me and a feminine role in life was my only hope.
Your past never completely goes away but over time it can become a gentle reminder instead of in your face. Try and remember the reason you decided you had to attempt a transition. It will help you see how far you have come and the importance of continuing to seek your goal.
Quote from: RandyL on August 27, 2018, 11:18:56 PM
But if you're uncomfortable presenting male, you probably need to be clear to yourself where your comfort boundary lies. If it's pretty far from male, then perhaps NB doesn't really apply. Are you just saying you're NB because you're also uncomfortable presenting female?
I think of myself as enby mostly because I don't "identify" with any gender. Gender is, for me, this weird thing that society tries to impose upon me. The way I think of it, society only presents us with the options "male" and "female," and since everything to do with "male" and masculinity kind of creeps me out (yes, there's a history there), I feel a lot more comfortable living as a woman. I sometimes wonder whether, if I had grown up in a world where me just being me wasn't constantly seen as some horrible crime against man (gender intentional) and nature, maybe I would have been okay with being labeled "male."
On the other hand, there's a part of me that wants to be "out" with the fact that I'm trans, that I spent years being seen as male and thinking of myself as a (failed) male. And there's a lot of @#$% about being a woman that, as a feminist, I see no reason to burden myself with.
I respect those enbies who try to carve out a life in the world without fitting in to either the male or the female role, but I'm old and tired, I just want for once in my life to fit in
somewhere, to find a place where I can delude myself that I
belong.
Quote from: Asche on August 28, 2018, 07:37:06 AM
I respect those enbies who try to carve out a life in the world without fitting in to either the male or the female role, but I'm old and tired, I just want for once in my life to fit in somewhere, to find a place where I can delude myself that I belong.
Hon.
You've found a place to call home - it's here at Susan's :) this is home, where you belong, without question, without invalidation, without compromise, a digital voice without gender.
(Hugs)
Quote from: RandyL on August 27, 2018, 11:18:56 PM
So what I get is, deep inside it feels to you that the binary is still valid, but your conscious is fighting that and trying to be non-binary. Nearly all of us grew up in the binary -- NB didn't even exist in our worlds. It's a fairly new concept, at least to me. So it's going to take time and work to internalize it.
But if you're uncomfortable presenting male, you probably need to be clear to yourself where your comfort boundary lies. If it's pretty far from male, then perhaps NB doesn't really apply. Are you just saying you're NB because you're also uncomfortable presenting female? Some of us have a hard time establishing our position on the gender spectrum (at least I do).
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I would challenge that NB does apply...NB is a knowing you are not of either of the binaries, its a gut level thing, a knowledge. As to the lineal spectrum, in my own gender it has been proven false for me, in spite of full transition, I remain nonbinary at the core.
But that feeling Asche is saying of wanting to fit in, well, thats the big one, it can be a lonely deal, and then, we find others and realize we are not alone.
Binary thinking can be harmful to nonbinary truths. It strays us from the path, fueled by dysphoria. Nonbinary is its own path, the "other", the one who walks away from the crowd, and finds the real.
Quote from: Satinjoy on August 28, 2018, 10:25:53 PM
I would challenge that NB does apply...NB is a knowing you are not of either of the binaries, its a gut level thing, a knowledge. As to the lineal spectrum, in my own gender it has been proven false for me, in spite of full transition, I remain nonbinary at the core.
But that feeling Asche is saying of wanting to fit in, well, thats the big one, it can be a lonely deal, and then, we find others and realize we are not alone.
Binary thinking can be harmful to nonbinary truths. It strays us from the path, fueled by dysphoria. Nonbinary is its own path, the "other", the one who walks away from the crowd, and finds the real.
Thank you Satinjoy, that is well said. I hadn't thought of it as nonlinear. That might help me, who is also struggling with my own identity. I certainly switch around from hour to hour, day to day.
Quote from: Satinjoy on August 28, 2018, 10:25:53 PMBinary thinking can be harmful to nonbinary truths. It strays us from the path, fueled by dysphoria.
Absolutely Brilliant
From reading your post, I think I can relate, although I'm just beginning my journey of discovery into where I sit on (or potentially off) the spectrum. So in case it's helpful, here's how I've come to understand those moments when they come to me. Say for instance I have a thought pattern where afterwards I think "Oh God what a man thing to think. Maybe my gender IS male after all", I'll stop myself and think "no, that's just me. I only associate that with male-ness because for nearly 3 decades that association has been made for me". Whether I'm wearing a dress, a suit or a rabbit costume etc, on the inside I'm still me, I'm just wearing whatever I feel most comfortable in and what aligns best with what I'm feeling (which has never thus far been the rabbit costume :laugh: ).
Quote from: Sno on August 28, 2018, 04:22:04 PM
Hon.
You've found a place to call home - it's here at Susan's :) this is home, where you belong, without question, without invalidation, without compromise, a digital voice without gender.
(Hugs)
Not the OP but this is a lovely sentiment. Thank you.
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Well, it's an interesting thought to have no gender to be NB.
When I joined Susans, I was just a cross-dresser. During that time I was working quite heavily and cross-dressing was one way to survey from day to day. Then a burnout hit me quite heavily. That time I thought that I might be woman as sometimes I have had this thought that in previous lives I've been more woman than a man.
Years has passed and binary thinking haven't solve anything for me as I don't fit in. I'm not a "male" or "female" in the binary spectrum. So I'm just me, I try to be me, trying to figure out what NB means for me : where I am and what I want to be. I have only this life and I try to enjoy as much as I can to have a happy life.
Quote from: Maria2018 on September 12, 2018, 07:29:00 PM
Whether I'm wearing a dress, a suit or a rabbit costume etc, on the inside I'm still me, I'm just wearing whatever I feel most comfortable in and what aligns best with what I'm feeling (which has never thus far been the rabbit costume :laugh: ).
So true, I don't cross-dress because I want to "fit in", I cross-dress because I'm me. On summer skirts and dresses are just awesome...
Although wearing suit + bra + thongs + carter belt + stockings and I feel like Super Girl :D
My man parts are ok, but I would like to have small breasts: A / B would be nice ...