Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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SRS perfomed by Dr. Suporn in Thailand. (http://etransgender.com/viewtopic.php?t=541)



tink :icon_chick:

Rather interesting all in all; I think things like this should be required viewing for anyone even remotely considering such :p

I would never make it as a surgeon, but it sure is interesting what can be done.

Thank you Tink (=


By the by, the imagery is just a normal SRS procedure with no compilations and stuff.

Quote from: Kimberly on May 25, 2007, 08:38:09 PM
Rather interesting all in all; I think things like this should be required viewing for anyone even remotely considering such :p

I would never make it as a surgeon, but it sure is interesting what can be done.

Thank you Tink (=

I agree Kim, and you're very welcome! :)

tink :icon_chick:

Thank you, Tink.

Dear Tink,

Thank you for your many educational threads!

If I understood the article this patient had a post-op vaginal depth of 6.5 inches which increased with dilation to 7.5 inches (19 cm).  That seemed impressive.

Thanks again.

W

Just read this thread ....

All I can say is that if my five month post-op result had looked remotely like this patients I would have been devastated  :( ... positively among the very worst of SRS outcomes I've seen (apart from a few other Suporn results) !

Sooo absolutely and horrendously ugly .... and a million miles from any natal female.

And 4 hours recommended daily dilation even at six months !

It just rests my case that cosmetically Suporn is easily the worst of the "name" surgeons .... I'm still looking for independent links to "pretty" Suporn outcomes that might substantiate his claimed status as the "best" !

Guess the only reason to go to Suporn is that he requires no "letters" or referrals, and pretty much operates on demand if you have the cash.

Those who've seen my own result will know what can be achieved by a decent (North American) surgeon ....

Laura x

What does being in North America have to do with being decent?
Rashelle

Quote from: Wendy on May 25, 2007, 09:36:30 PM
Dear Tink,

Thank you for your many educational threads!

If I understood the article this patient had a post-op vaginal depth of 6.5 inches which increased with dilation to 7.5 inches (19 cm).  That seemed impressive.

Thanks again.

W

I thought so too, Wendy.  I mean, most sugeons go for what it is considered normal in a genetic female (4 1/2 to 5 inches). 
Now, regarding the photographs....I have to agree with Laura Eva, the results don't look anything like mine and I have only been post-op for five months; however,  I wonder how old the photographs are..  ???

tink :icon_chick:

Just making the point that N American surgeons can deliver results as good and often way better than their Thai counterparts ... and the cost of Suporn is on par with most US, Canadian, European surgeons.

Just love someone to back me up that the SRS result posted in the link is absolutely horrendous, the poor woman has been butchered, and is enough to put anyone off surgery.

Laura x

P.S. Tink,

Who was your surgeon, and do you feel your result looks way better than in the posted link ?

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 08, 2007, 08:51:18 PM
P.S. Tink,

Who was your surgeon, and do you feel your result looks way better than in the posted link ?

Dr. Toby Meltzer was my surgeon, and yes, my results look waaaaaaayyyyy better than the photographs.  My mom says that no one could ever tell that my vagina is not natal.  ;)

tink :icon_chick:

The problem with Suporn is that his method is more complex which leads to longer dilation times and also more possibility of mucho problems; the method has more inherent risks. If you know that from the start and you go there then its OK. If you go to him because he's the only choice (no letters), then your taking a blind risk.


I prefer my surgeon to be consistent then to hit one out of the park once in a while.

I've seen how Brassard was for my FFS. I showed him all sorts of nose to show him how I'd like mine and he bluntly said to me that for each type of original nose, he had a basic way of feminizing it, that if he tried to customize this, the risk of variance from results would be higher. He said he'd give me a classic female nose with the best modern esthetics (not the O nose, which is NOT the classical nose, the bridge is too low and its proportion don't relate to other facial proportions, its the forced bridge height that dictates it).

He said he had the same view of SRS, increasing the risk of variant suboptimal results esthetically and funtionally for slightly better cosmetic results would not be worth it. He's got a very streamlined method of doing things; he's a very systematic man.

In rhinoplasty, there are doctors which are like clockwork while others that are very well known have some fantastic results and a very good PR machine, but in general run a big risk of really messing up your nose. On the internet, there are many patients with cautionary tales about these doctors who often are well known and are very good at selling themselves; but, all the lucky patients who did not get the bad results are defending their doctor with rage.

I really do not think I would choose Dr. Suporn.  Not because of his location, but because I would not want to end up looking like this poor girl, who IMHO looks like a freak downstairs.



I don't really understand this statement:
"My choice of Dr. Suporn was made after considerable research of all the better-known surgeons performing SRS worldwide. An excellent overview of this landscape can be found at www.susans.org (https://www.susans.org)., where Dr. Suporn has by far the highest rating. "

Where are these ratings?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

EeeeeK, horrid!  :o  Who is this surgeon?  hopefully he is not doing genital reconstruction anymore.  Poor lady.  Horrid, just horrid results.

Quote from: Ell on June 09, 2007, 04:28:39 PM
Aw C'mon!!!!

1st) did you see the last two pictures on the page, when she was actually healed? i think she looks very good. i mean, we're not talking candy apples here, ladies. we're talking about pu*** !
i have seen a few of them over the years, and if there's one thing they all have in common, it's an aspect i'd have to call naughty. (that's a good thing). and this girl's has really got a naughty look, ok?

2nd) if you've got links to SRS pics which you think are so much better, why not post the links?

3rd) the only thing that was really painful for me to see, was that sweet girl with male glands. Ugh! (i just hate testes). now she's got rid of all that T, she looks great, and apparently everything is working out for her. Yay for her!!!!

Ell ... just Google "Anne Lawrence" .... gives you a broad overview of what SRS results look like (though you won't see any Suporn results there as he threatened litigation unless his pictures were removed !) .... and any of thousands of porn sites to give you an overview of the range of natal vaginas (sure threy're all cute 18 - 20 somethings ... not mature women ... but it gives a pretty good idea of the variation in genetic females).

My own result is 1000% better than that Suporn result, and in a less than sober moment I briefly put pics up in the "post-op only" section of this site .... but no way am I prepared to share my results in open forum .... only with women who are comitted to having SRS and who are genuinely considering Brassard.

Tink, Kristi, Yvonne and I think Keira agree with me as to how "horrible" the posted result looks (all pics were taken in a time frame of 5 minutes - check the date stamping). 

Its hard I guess to say why the result looks so bad ... maybe its the wide open "gaping hole - ski slope" for a vagina, that pink & white mass above it (what's that all about ?), and a general appearance that looks like a "splayed and sewn" down penis ... all Suporn trademarks. 

As to "hating testes" and male bits.... well actually I find them quite cute, especially when they're on a potential sexual partner  ;) !

P.S. ... Tink, my mum saw my result at just two weeks, and regularly watched the healing progress during my my dilations in the ten "recovery" weeks I spent with her and dad.  Yes she came into my bedroom to bring coffee and to chat to alleviate the tedium of dilation.  She was absolutely amazed at how good it all looked and worked (having feared the worst for my outcome) and sees Brassard as a genius  :) ....

Laura x

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 09, 2007, 06:16:36 PM

Tink, Kristi, Yvonne and I think Keira agree with me as to how "horrible" the posted result looks (all pics were taken in a time frame of 5 minutes - check the date stamping). 

Laura x

I do too.  The pickies are utterly horrid.  I'd never go to Thailand for my GRS.  I know a few girls who have spent thousands of euros trying to fix the mess left by Thai surgeons.  If they were French surgeons, their license would have been revoked a long time ago.  I'm still undecided about my GRS surgeon, but one thing is certain, I'll have it done in Canada or the States.  Dr. Brassard, Dr. Bowers and Dr. Meltzer are on my list.

I looked at the pictures and I have some video clips as well. The surgery doesn't scare me in the least. I don't think some gorey pics are going to scare anyone who really needs to have this done. So, I'll agree with Tink and say they should be required viewing for anyone thinking about SRS.
While the results in the pics aren't esthetically pleasing. they're certainly much better than what I'm stuck with for the time being. Fortunately, I've already been in contact with Marcie Bowers and hope to be scheduled soon.

Karen Lyn

Quote from: KarenLyn on June 09, 2007, 07:33:22 PM
I looked at the pictures and I have some video clips as well. The surgery doesn't scare me in the least. I don't think some gorey pics are going to scare anyone who really needs to have this done. So, I'll agree with Tink and say they should be required viewing for anyone thinking about SRS.
While the results in the pics aren't esthetically pleasing. they're certainly much better than what I'm stuck with for the time being. Fortunately, I've already been in contact with Marcie Bowers and hope to be scheduled soon.

Karen Lyn

Thought the obvious choice in the US was between Meltzer and Brassard ....

With Chettawut and Sanguan in Thailand (and possibly Perovic in Serbia - an unknown genius ?) the surgeons so obviously so much better than the best available in the UK.

Marcie's training and credentials as a surgeon rather worry me !

And her "aftercare" arrangements ruled her out for me (as did certain serious allegations about her "fitness to practice", which might be quite untrue, but which I guess we all know about).

Laura x

I'm not familiar with Dr Brassard's prices, but Dr Bowers was, the last time I checked, more than $4000 less than Dr Meltzer. Travel is also a consideration since I expect to be driving. I also have friends who have had SRS done by Dr Bowers and the results were fantastic. But when it comes right down to it, I don't care what I will look like down there as long as it's done.

Karen Lyn

Quote from: KarenLyn on June 09, 2007, 08:34:19 PM
I'm not familiar with Dr Brassard's prices, but Dr Bowers was, the last time I checked, more than $4000 less than Dr Meltzer. Travel is also a consideration since I expect to be driving. I also have friends who have had SRS done by Dr Bowers and the results were fantastic. But when it comes right down to it, I don't care what I will look like down there as long as it's done.

Karen Lyn

Brassard is $16,000 US (a snip in more ways than one   :)  !).

I cared soooo ABSOLUTELY about the cosmetics, sensitivity & orgasmic capability, and functionallity of my result ....

And wasn't dissapointed !

(and what is $4k, a month or two's savings ?  You don't price a "life changing" op in the way you would a new car ? .... and as to driving back home post-op, are you crazy ?? )

Laura x

Not everyone has a nice career and income. $4000 a couple months savings? Try 4 years. I'm tired of waiting. I've been saving for 10 years and I'm long past ready to be complete. As for driving post-op, I had a spinal fusion last december and was up and walking the same day. I'll stay in Trinidad and recuperate long enough to be able to make the trip.
And what makes you an expert on what's right for someone else?

My 2¢

Karen Lyn

Couldn't you get any personal loan or line of credit from the bank, KarenLyn?
Saving the cost of SRS would be hard for everybody (harder for some), just like paying a car cash would be hard; that's why most get loans for cars.

I may have to do that to get the IRS off my back. Ex wives can do wonderful things to your finances. Unfortunately, until I can force the sale of the house, I won't be taking out any loans.

Karen Lyn

i'm so glad that i chose dr. bowers for my grs.  i'd go ballistic if my results turned out like this girl's. tsk tsk tsk

Umm... I really don't mean to be rude, but that box was downright scary. :eusa_sick:
And I really couldn't tell, but it looked like there was some strange stuff going on down there. :icon_weirdface:
That does not look natural.

TO each there own.  Im a fan of Bowers work more so than any of the other NA surgoens...  But thats me personaly and after much research...  sometimes its better to spend the extra and get the person you consider the best rather than try to save a buck or two.....  Id be affraid to travle to thiland for surgery... I dont think the cost is worth the risk.

whooaa  don't look good. ???  sorry for that lady. :(

Quote from: Tink on June 08, 2007, 08:47:58 PM
... I mean, most sugeons go for what it is considered normal in a genetic female (4 1/2 to 5 inches). 

That's ture. My surgeon (Dr.Brassard) also told me to keep my dilation with a depth at around 5inches would be ok...

the gaping hole thing is what made me think hell no in respect to thai surgeons, for me it'll be bellringer or thomas, I've seen allot of their recent work and it's all excellent.

Quote from: Tink on June 08, 2007, 08:47:58 PM

Now, regarding the photographs....I have to agree with Laura Eva, the results don't look anything like mine and I have only been post-op for five months; however,  I wonder how old the photographs are..  ???

tink :icon_chick:

Here I have to agree with you too, plus I've been only post-op for about 2 and half monthes (Dr.Brassard girl), but the results don't look anything like mine too...

Quote from: Nero on June 10, 2007, 12:55:05 AM
... I really couldn't tell, but it looked like there was some strange stuff going on down there. :icon_weirdface:
That does not look natural.

Ditto

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 09, 2007, 09:00:22 PM

Brassard is $16,000 US (a snip in more ways than one   :)  !).

I cared soooo ABSOLUTELY about the cosmetics, sensitivity & orgasmic capability, and functionallity of my result ....

And wasn't dissapointed !

(and what is $4k, a month or two's savings ?  You don't price a "life changing" op in the way you would a new car ? .... and as to driving back home post-op, are you crazy ?? )

Laura x

I cant agree with you more at these points. Moreover, frankly I find Dr Brassard's price is very reasonable, not high at all. The latest price for GRS is around 16,000$ CA all included (travelling in town, meals, recovery clinic, the best set of dilators, which would cost some 600$, and etc.)

QuoteI cant agree with you more at these points. Moreover, frankly I find Dr Brassard's price is very reasonable, not high at all. The latest price for GRS is around 16,000$ CA all included (travelling in town, meals, recovery clinic, the best set of dilators, which would cost some 600$, and etc.)

Well, there is why there are only an estimated 20 to 30K post-op women in the world. The average person cannot save up 16K, and if they did, it would take them ten years or more.

Thundra,
Since almost everybody I know, even on very low salary, can
buy a low end car, not cash, but credit exists for a reason,
a totally disagree on the fact that its unaffordable to most.

Of course, on minimum wage, banks will not lend you 16K, ever.

But, the working poor, with a higher salary (minimum wage is not working poor, its below subsistence poor, it is a US embarassement); if they take care of their credit, they can get a 16K loan much quicker than 10 years.

My best friend had a salary of 25K (his wife didn't work and he's got a 5 year old child) and he financed a 20K car. He already owed 10K in student loans and had a 5K line of credit open, and they still gave him the money. He always pays his bills on time and has a very tight budget; to save, and keep your credit, you need to budget.

Quote from: Keira on June 10, 2007, 03:45:51 AM
to save, and keep your credit, you need to budget.

An you need to hope nothing goes wrong. EVERY <EXPLETIVE> winter/Christmas time for the last... meh I don't know any more. Yeah, we can tell that it is near Christmas time because we can't put milk in the refrigerator. ^*shrug* Meh, don't mind me I am bitter.

^*sigh* But more to the point of why I decided to post...

Quote from: KarenLyn on June 09, 2007, 08:34:19 PM
But when it comes right down to it, I don't care what I will look like down there as long as it's done.

I am afraid I am in the exact same boat, and I more than sympathize...

Quote from: Ell on June 10, 2007, 07:21:47 AM

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 09, 2007, 06:16:36 PM

Ell ... just Google "Anne Lawrence" .... gives you a broad overview of what SRS results look like

Tink, Kristi, Yvonne and I think Keira agree with me as to how "horrible" the posted result looks 
Laura x

i googled it and tried at least 7 links and they didn't return a single photo.
telling me to google something is not the same as providing a link. as for Tink agreeing with you, does that mean that she posted the site with the intention of trashing the patient later? not very ethical, considering the size and importance of this site. for all we know, that girl could be a member here.

until you can show an actual link, which you have evaded so far, i think you should back off on this girl. god, this is just getting vicious.

http://www.annelawrence.com/brassard0905.html

also steph's result is in the wiki.

the thing that kills suporn's result is the way the vaginal entrance sits under the vagina and looks like a big gaping hole, it's just not natural looking in any way shape or form, brassard's results don't look as close to a textbook vulva but there's allot of natural variation and IMO his results don't jump out as trans whereas suporn's does.

Kimberly,
I wasn't talking about your specific case.

Of course, someone on the edge, like my friend, if something happens,
its a hard knock and can take several years to recover. In his case, he changed job because he couldn't work in one field for medical reason and lost 10K in salary, the same year he had a heart infection!

But, I've seen plenty of people complaining they can't make ends meet and when we look the money going in and out (the one they told about...), it should work; budgeting takes a lot of discipline and not everybody's want to have to think if they've got money to buy a sack of chips this week/month... His budget was that tight, most people have a bit more leway than that.

But, in our case, since SRS is so crucial, we should have an strong motivation to be frugal; yet that's not what I see from TS acquaintances. Yet they're the first to complain about SRS costs!!

I'm not into women so i don't particularly see that, tbh it grosses me out a bit.

I am into women, and it grosses me out. (no offense to the poor lady) Hope it looks different as it heals more.

You're right, Gina. It is very important to be honest with your info about any given surgeon. Nobody wants to hurt anybody's feelings, but women who have SRS have to live with the results for the rest of their lives. For that reason, it's best that as much information as possible on a surgeon is out there (not just the good results), so these women can make informed decisions.

hmmm see what you're saying. My issue with the Suporn result is there seems to be something 'extra' going on. Like we're seeing way more than we should be seeing. But it may be that it isn't quite healed yet or something.

edit: Come to think of it, there is quite a variety in natal vaginas. The Suporn result may look like some natal vaginas after punching out a couple dozen kids or so.

More complex, in surgery, means more risk.
Complexity increases risk, That's how it is for everything.

If people that go to Suporn are open to that risk and
go to him willingly, no problems. People are free to take as much
risk as they want in their lives.

If people are totally blind
to the risk and just go there to save money or for esthetics reasons, I hope for their sake they get the good result or they'll be shocked.

As I said, I'd prefer 100% of being slightly off esthetically (with the accent on slight), but knowing exactly what I'm going to get.
than having a 90% chance of getting a possibly better esthetically (which is highly arguable) and a 10% of chance of getting who knows what.

Quote from: regina on June 10, 2007, 02:51:05 PM
If it means anything, I was in a discussion on the Yahoo SRS forum where someone stated anyone who didn't go to Suporn was crazy... his technique was that much more advanced than any other SRS surgeon. I then posted 5 random pix of Suporn results I found through Google. None of them were chosen for being problem outcomes, nor people who were dissatisfied with Suporn but, from my aesthetic standpoint, they didn't happen to be results I would have been happy with.

The Suporn supporters on the forum refused to believe the results shown were by Suporn and they refused to believe they were within the last 4 years (except one that was just slightly over 4 years old). They insisted I was doing this to discredit Suporn. My reason for posting them was purely because he's the only main surgeon not represented on the Anne Lawrence site.

Btw, there is a another person who just had SRS from him (she's still in Thailand) who just had necrosis of her graft and has to stay there another 2 weeks. And yet another person who posted at the beginning of that forum's discussion had a flesh-eating infection of her graft (which she didn't inform the rest of the forum of). I have nothing against Suporn but I do have BIG issues with people who claim he's better than other SRS surgeons but keep a blind eye to the frequency of postop complications his patients have. Yes, what he does is more complicated, and yes, there do seem to be a lot more of his patients who have complications or slow recoveries. I wish there would be honestly about this.

Gina M.

exactly my feelings.  i've heard too many horror stories about suporn and other thai surgeons.  i feel sorry for the girls who believe that suporn and others are amongst the best.  nothing could be further from the truth. it's just rubbish!

We can all cherry pick good and bad results from a given surgeon ...

Ell deliberately posted a "mediocre result" from Brassard. 

These pics are far more representative and show his very good consistency and remarkable similarity of result, the main reason I went with him.

I'd say my own result was not very different from these, probably even better ....

[removed links]

With Brassard I was sightseeing Montreal in a modest way in the days between my discharge on day 9 and my flight home on day 14 - would you be up and about and up to walking a couple of miles with Suporn around the 10th post-op day ?

The best thing my psychiatrist (Russell Reid) ever did was dissuade me against Suporn (I too was charmed by the "legend" and those oh so clever "viewfoils" on his site).  He said he knew many women under his care who had gone to Suporn and he said they came back physically wrecked by the ardure of the surgery, often looking as if they had aged 10 whole years !  And he knew personally of some recent very problematic outcomes.

Laura x

these are steph's results from the wiki.  outstanding!

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Penile_inversion

Oh, boy.

I think that discussing surgeon's worth is perfectly worthwhile.
The oh, they'll all fine because its ugly down argument is wooaa!
But still, the esthetics thing doesn't phase me, everybody's got an opinion.

But, surgery risks and consistency of results, are a totally seperate issue.
That's the one that SHOULD be used to select a surgeon.

The photos online are a small non representative sample no matter the surgeon. Stories, I hear much much more from all sides than pictures can cover. Gets real tiresome after awhile.

Its well known that a plastic surgery patient will defend their own doctor vehemently unless the outcome is catastrophic; I've seen it many times on rhinoplasty forums. Same precise arguments back and forth as for SRS. The patient went with that doctor; saying it was an error, would like admitting to themselves something that maybe your not ready to hear yet (if ever).

There really needs someone, a clearinghouse, who would collect post-op followup information in a way to clear the air. So, we will all stop this he said, she said, eternal pointless diatribe.

Well, again, SRS is not a game and everyone should be aware of what they are about to do before having it performed.

The Downside of SRS  (http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodesy/trans/words/mono10.htm)


tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Ell on June 10, 2007, 05:53:18 PMLaura, dear, i did not choose them. that link was posted by Mawd.

May I suggest you take a peek at this site [link removed KA]It's good for getting a decent grasp of what things down there look like on the average woman, then look at the brassard result I posted again and ask yourself "if I saw that on the-clitoris would I think it was out of place", that's why I like that result so much, it's a bit weird but then again so are allot of women.

@laura, Christ! those pics are scary, it's just the way that it looks stuck together and not quite right that puts me off most, and the whole gaping hole vaginal entrance thing.

Quote from: Mawd on June 11, 2007, 01:43:23 AM

May I suggest you take a peek at this [link removed] that's why I like that result so much, it's a bit weird but then again so are allot of women.

[gulp!] tell me about it. that's possibly more information than i needed.
thanks, i think

It really was an eye opener for me, I've never been with a girl before, looking at that and then looking at some porn really shows how unnatural the average guy's image of a vulva really is.

Vulva's go from kinda messy, to oh so prim.
So look like party fiends while other look like virginal debutantes.

Though after seeing 50 or more, it kind of all blends into one.

I feel so naughty and
slightly embarassed looking at the slick "excited" ones...   ;D

Geez Mawd, I had never seen anything like it so closely...Thank you for the enlightening experience.  I was just going through the link and saw this (http://www.the-clitoris.com/y/vulva/img110.htm).  IMHO, that looks like a small penis.  If that is ,in fact, a clitoris, that person may be intersexed or her genitals are chemically masculinized. ???

tink :icon_chick:

Well these photos are just what a nervous girl needs to see before she goes to see Suporn in a few months.

Actually I had seen these pics before deciding to go but I have also seen lots more which look a lot better. I've also seen some of his results in real life close up and was really impressed. Of course there are lots of photos from other surgeons that are just as scary.

The dilation regime and extended recovery time seem to be the biggest problem of his technique but thats why I have three months off work.


See you on the other side.

Good luck to you Anonymouse and more power to you.   :D
I think it is true that every surgeon has poor results at times including the heavily favored N. Am. surgeons apparent on this thread, but I think it's pretty sad when girls use a few bad examples to beat up a surgeon whose dedicated his career to helping T's.  There are many, many more girls who quite obviously have been thrilled w/ Dr. Suporn and his staff.  I hope you are among them when you wake up, hon.
As for myself, just to be on the up and up, I'm still pre-op, but it's come down to Bowers or Suporn.  I have two friends, one going to each very soon, and I think it's pretty shabby the way girls talk down accomplished surgeons on this site sometimes.  It especially annoys me that the assumption is made that girls who go to Thailand have no money and/or no sense.  Get off it, girls.  :police:
I like Meltzer ALOT as a person and know his results are good, but nobody's cutting me twice, I don't care how many limosines they send to pick me up at the hotel.
Chrissy

Wow, that was an awesome sight!  (pun intended)

But, it's weird to look at a photo and see someone that looks exactly like you down there.

I found this to be a most interesting topic, we can all have the benefit of hindsight, we should have done this and should have done that, when I woke up from my surgery 22years ago my new vagina looked gross, at the time it wasn't 100% success, anyway to make a long story short, I went to another surgeon who preformed labiaplasty, a cosmetic procedure around my vulva, anyway now my vulva looks normal, looks very similar to the photo in Tink's link, infact it could be me http://www.the-clitoris.com/y/vulva/img106.htm in hindsight I probably go to a different surgeon, I also had a lot of nerve ends removed, which explains why I'v no sensation in my clitoris, male partners got more enjoyment from my vagina than I did lol, but at this stage it doesn't bother me, I prefer to be cuddle, fondle and caress by a man, whisper sweet nothings in my ear, prefer all that, than sex, I get no enjoyment from sex, so if a guy has sex with me, I just fake it, keeps the guy happy.
My FFS surgery was and still is more important that SRS, when I went for FFS, I had the full works, eyebrow lift, rhinoplasty, the scar where I had my trachea shaved is well healed and no longer seen, today I'd never pass as a male even if I wanted to, 2years ago I had botox injections around my eyes to treat wrinkes, but I didn't repeat the procedure, well we can't stay young forever.
Im no regrets having SRS, I just regret the surgeon and its a pity there wasn't more information, at the time all I wanted was a vagina and the other thing gone, no internet in them days, anyway every morning when I step out of the shower and glance in the mirror, I see, yes, difinitely a girl.

Hi Pretty P,

Just wont to say hi and I like your post, which is very realistic and mature... Thanks for sharing...

A.R.  :)

Links removed. Blah! So I don't know what people are talking about.

Quote from: ell on November 03, 2007, 04:55:54 PM

Quote from: gothique11 on November 03, 2007, 02:10:39 PM
Links removed. Blah! So I don't know what people are talking about.

Aw Gothique, you are so silly. post-op pics are available all over the internet. but, here's is the play by play of the pics that were posted on this thread.

1) Tink started by showing a page which presented a trans woman who had her SRS done by Dr. Surgeon 1

2) Soon, girls were saying how awful it looked. and one girl posted some pics by Surgeon 2, which she said were better.

3) Then, another girl posted pics by Surgeon 2, which some people said were also appalling.

4) Finally, a girl posts a series of pics of ordinary natal women's um, gear, and then everybody also says, Ewww!

5) Moral of the story is it's all raw, sweetie. it's raw like sushi!!!

-ell

Oh, okay, thnx. :)

What do people expect? Vagina's aren't that pretty. Sure, I wouldn't like some mutilation or something that looks so off kilter that when a girlfriend goes down there she thinks it a Picasso painting. LOL So, of course, something that looks within the range is fine, but sometimes I don't know what people honestly expect as for looks. I've seen all kinds of different ones.

And to a side note, penises aren't pretty, either. (ick) LOL

--natalie

I would also like to add that the clitoris is like a mini penis, when it is aroused it stands up and hard just like a penis, and it has a hood like an uncircumcised penis.  That is what is taken off in some cultures, which takes away the sensitivity of that area and the women's pleasure.
The picture of the vag with the enlarged clit was taken probably in an aroused state and maybe dark-skinned women have larger ones. ???  But they are still all within normal range as far as I know.  My 2 cents worth.

I clicked on your link and all I got was Barney Frank. What happened? It sounds like some bad surgery from Suporn. I do know some girls who used Suporn and they liked the out come. I don't know what these pictures look like as, like I said, all I got was Barney Frank picture. If that is what you mean, that would be the ugliest Vagina around. I went to Thailand and I feel I got a good surgery. It looks like a vagina, I have sensation and enough depth for me and what I had told my surgeon. I went to Dr. Preecha and I have had absolutely no problems. I was at work after 5 weeks, I admit that I took it really easy though. Bad surgeries could happen to any surgeon, even Dr. Melzer. I have even heard of thing happening to Brassard and the other surgeon in Canada. Lets face it, it can happen. I didn't go to Bowers at the time of my surgery as she was botching things up. I heard since then she has got her act together and is doing a good job. There is still the chance of something happening.
Sheila

QuoteAnd 4 hours recommended daily dilation even at six months !

It just rests my case that cosmetically Suporn is easily the worst of the "name" surgeons .... I'm still looking for independent links to "pretty" Suporn outcomes that might substantiate his claimed status as the "best" !

Guess the only reason to go to Suporn is that he requires no "letters" or referrals, and pretty much operates on demand if you have the cash.

All not true. I been to Suporn and my experience and all those I met and talked to that went to Suporn have nothing but praise. Just as Dr.O has great success and my experience. No matter how great you are someone for some reason will bad mouth you. These people would not be in such demand if they did not have a good track record.

He does require letters and dilation is 1 hour twice a day for 6 months. There are others that are less expensive but money cost was not my concern. I went to the very best because it is my body.

What is the criteria involved in getting a referral in the U.S.A or Thailand for GRS. In England it is very difficult to get a referral and I have been refused a referral without an explanation.
I have complied with all protocols and the HBSOC and lived a RLT for over 5 years?

I was wondering y would some ppl would turned down on dr. suporn's results??? his results are so good tht it almost cannot be distingushed from the natal female genitalia!

Every surgeon has their detractors, just as every surgeon has their not-so-good results from time to time (some surgeons more than others, of course).  It's just the nature of things; some prefer Coke, others Pepsi, and yet others Dr. Pibb.  There are lots of good choices out there.

Lia

I was wondering does Dr. suporn require Therapist letters? Ive heard tht he doesnt and Im kinda skeptical about it

QuoteMinimum Psychosocial requirements for Patients Scheduling SRS:

It is not Dr. Suporn's policy to deny SRS surgery to any patient he believes to be medically and psychologically fit to undergo it. As far as is considered reasonable, The Suporn Clinic follows the guidelines of the Harry Benjamin Gender Identity Disorder Standards of Care (HBGIDSOC). Additionally, we always comply with the Medical standards of Thailand. We require patients to provide written evidence that they meet the following criteria:

For Patients Under the Age of 20 (Adolescent Cases)

Patients must be at least 16 years old, and under age 20

Must not be undergoing treatment for any psychiatric or psychological disorder other than gender identity disorder (GID), Gender Dysphoria or transsexualism

Have had treatment with anti-androgens and/or feminizing hormones (HRT) for a minimum period of 6 months

Have lived full time in their acquired gender for a period of at least 6 months, evidenced by at least 2 documents **

Have a written referral for SRS by a doctor, psychiatrist, psychiatric social worker, clinical psychologist, or endocrinologist/sexologist who is a professionally qualified specialist in the field of gender dysphoria

Have written consent from legal guardians (usually parents)

For Adult Patients Between the Ages of 20 and 40

Patients must be considered - legally - to be adults under the law of their originating country, and be under the age of 40

Must not be undergoing treatment for any psychiatric or psychological disorder other than gender identity disorder (GID), Gender Dysphoria or transsexualism

Have had treatment with anti-androgens and/or feminizing hormones (HRT) for a minimum period of 6 months

Have lived full time in their acquired gender for a period of at least 6 months, evidenced by at least 2 original documents **

Have a written referral for SRS by a doctor, psychiatrist, psychiatric social worker, clinical psychologist, or endocrinologist/sexologist who is a professionally qualified specialist in the field of gender dysphoria

For Mature Adult Patients Between the Age of 40 and 65

Patients must be at least 40 years old, and under age 65

Must not be undergoing treatment for any psychiatric or psychological disorder other than gender identity disorder (GID), Gender Dysphoria or transsexualism

Have had treatment with anti-androgens and/or feminizing hormones (HRT) for a minimum period of 6 months

Must :

Have lived full time in their acquired gender for a period of at least 6 months, evidenced by at least 2 documents **, and / or:

Have a written referral for SRS by a doctor, psychiatrist, psychiatric social worker, clinical psychologist, or endocrinologist/sexologist who is a professionally qualified specialist in the field of gender dysphoria

** Documentary evidence needs only to be sufficient to show the patient's acquired (female) name, and bear a date at least 6 months prior to surgery. Suitable examples would be - but are not restricted to - passport, driver's licence, official ID card, household utility bill, bank statement...etc.

Exceptional Cases and Patients aged Over 65

For exceptional cases where suitable evidence cannot be provided in the form above (for whatever reason, and as determined on a case-by-case basis) - and for patients aged over 65 - Dr Suporn will consider undertaking surgery providing the patient is able to provide firm, clear and written evidence to their suitability (both psychologically and physically) for surgery. This evidence will take the form of a full written description of the patient's gender dysphoria (as written by the patient) along with personal screening of the patient. Dr Suporn reserves the right not to schedule surgery if he considers an individual patient to be unsuitable for surgery.

Suporn's recent results - click on SRS results

http://www.supornclinic.com/Welcome.html (http://www.supornclinic.com/Welcome.html)

Thanks all you girls here at Susan's Place!~ 
(not to discount the great posts from you guys, and I'd swap parts with you in a second!)

     My Primary Care Doc wants me to give him two tentative choices this week so he can start networking with them. 

But that leaves me having to make a choice, at least a primary and secondary,  this week.  I know it's a flexible decision at this point, and since I'm thinking of a two year plan (Money being a big issue, I only make about $1000 a month, plus whatever under the table jewelry I sell).  I'm an impatient person, but it's early in the planning stage, I can be flexible, plenty of room to change my mind on doctors, but I am nervous of making a wrong choice.  I wish there were a step by step guide for doing the research.  Which questions to ask,  post-op evaluations, a General Consensus in one location.  Still I guess this is a very individual thing. 

I don't care what the depth is..  I just want it to look reasonably pretty and natural.  Despite what porno films want us to believe, There's a great deal of variation down there from girl to girl (and guy to guy for that matter),  And if I take my clothes off in a locker room to swim, or undress in front of a future boyfriend I just want to be comfortably secure that my pink parts aren't going to draw undue attention to themselves.

I was not able to view the image for some reason but I'd like to voice my opinion in general about Dr. Suporn:
The pictures on Suporn's website are impressive indeed but the question is, do all Suporn vaginas look that good? I have not met him in person but I have read a lot on the internet and I have a friend who has been to Dr. Suporn for her FFS and is considering SRS. My feeling is that he is a very good salesman since he is offering something other Thai surgeons don't do; he puts all the evidence on the internet like photos in different angles, photos showing depth along with use of dilators etc..
It's interesting how he uses a different technique for his SRS that is meant to provide extra depth.
But then again, it makes me question a few things like;
- How come he charges as much as North American surgeons
- Why the other reputable Thai surgeons have not adopted his technique
I am undecided about his work, my friend who has been to him for FFS told me she met a few girls there who were happy and had active sex lives with their boyfriends but she mentioned a lot of people waiting to get a revision as well. Then again, we have to remember that SRS is an imperfect surgery and even if one does not have acute complications, other complications can develop down the track that require revision like deviation of the urethra, excessive spongy tissue, depth and width problems etc..So it is not uncommon for people to go back to have more revisions.
I had my SRS with Dr. Preecha in 2004 and I still had to have 2 seperate revisions, not because I was being fussy but they were essential for function in my case. No surgeon is infallible, they can have a good reputation but still can produce unsatisfactory results, they are just unheard of and people who suffer from complications usually hide in the dark because ts women have a tendency to brag about their results and how good everything is etc..they don't like to admit it if things have gone wrong. I personally think there are no gurantees and the outcome of SRS is the luck of the draw.

I am going with Dr Meltzer, as he has the most experience in the US and has done many revisions because of unsatisfactory outcomes that were done in Thailand, especially one using the uretha mucosa as the inner vagina lining.  He will also use the lining if a patient want it, but advises not to have it done for various reasons.

    No comments have been made on this particular post for a while so pardon if I'm just keeping some kind of argument alive, but this is one of the first google hits if you search Dr. Suporn and the pictures in question are not even available for viewing, following some kind of zealous rage that would deterr those looking for information.

  The point of my posting is that the pictures originally were of a presentation of someone performing surgery, in which they were not at a fully healed post op status and thus were swollen and still in the healing process. Anyone that has had srs knows that the "midway" between recovery and the final product are two different things. Meltzer's first stage surgery without the second stage would be an unfair way to judge his general technique because; the process is incomplete. Thus was the photos used that started this post/debate.

   Having had surgery with Dr. Suporn myself, I am rather bewildered by the results given to me and as a very young, yet experienced woman - I feel it is almost appropriate I apply this input because I do believe the choice I ultimately made to go to Suporn in particular was at once waivered by this post, and I have found my results to be completely opposite of the negative slandering of what did appear to be a biased/overzealous poster.

   Why did I make it come alive again? Yet again, it's the 2nd google hit for the surgeons name, and I am glad I took this entire post with a grain of salt because my results are effin rad and the traffic of transexuals you see here in Chonburi would prove how word of mouth of said results like mine get wind - and the majority of the people here are under 30, interested in a healthy sexy life, which they will -surely- have as I have. And that is that. =P

Almost all the reputable modern surgeons are capable of producing excellent work, witness the fact that so many old timers like me now come back to have our results updated to modern standards. My earlier result was perfectly functional, had good depth, but was anatomically somewhat compromised. Now, after an extensive revision it is all but bio identical and looks and feels fantastic.

Suporn is undoubtely one of the best surgeons, but it is a sad fact that even the best can have a few that don't go so well through no fault of their own. Sometimes it really is just bad luck, and of course those who end up disappointed always shout louder than the many of us who end up delighted with what our chosen surgeons achieve.

So yes I agree NEVER allow yourself to be put off any surgeon by one or two bad reports. Always DO YOUR OWN research and find out the whole story.

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 09, 2007, 08:12:45 PM
Thought the obvious choice in the US was between Meltzer and Brassard ....

With Chettawut and Sanguan in Thailand (and possibly Perovic in Serbia - an unknown genius ?) the surgeons so obviously so much better than the best available in the UK.

Marcie's training and credentials as a surgeon rather worry me !

And her "aftercare" arrangements ruled her out for me (as did certain serious allegations about her "fitness to practice", which might be quite untrue, but which I guess we all know about).

Laura x

I talked directly to Dr. Eugene Shrang about 5 months b4 i made my decision, because i gave him a call (Not joking), I was going to be willing to pay him 3 times his amount to do my SRS. Of course he has retired a a few yrs ago, a shame.  I think he has done the best SRS ever, but he told me that he used to do clinics of his techniques (which he said were actually very easy procedures, but none of the now known SRS surgeons want to learn these simple methods).  I asked him who he would have me use for my SRS (btw, i am extreeeeamly picky).  He said all the SRS surgeons now are "butchers"  His exact words, but this "Perovic" was the only one that he saw that was anywhere near his level of expertise.  Just throwing him out there...I didnt use him because I had no one to judge by, so I went with Dr. Meltzer.   This Dr Perovic did call me personally.  I would suggest anyone new to doing research to check this guy out.  If Dr Shrang says he is the ONLY one out doing half-way decent work, there must be something to it.?

Hello

After 5 years of HRT I am finally getting SRS scheduled. I am planning on using either DR Suporn OR DR Meltzer but every time I find some info on them. I hear both Good and Bad. Can you perhaps share your insight with me  ?  I am totally overwhelmed and confused.

I would really appreciate any help.
Patience

PS: Apparently the Pix for this thread have been removed.

there  is only one site i know of that shows Dr Meltzers post vaginoplasty and labiaplasty.  Dr. Suporn i do not know.  I do know if you want to see post op pics Dr Meltzer will show you what he has. Ive shown you a couple.  As you know i am VERY picky, so maybe some of the post op stuff im having will resolve in hopefully 3-5 months.  If not there are other options depending on the issue.  Ive heard that Suporn will give you the option to have an 8" depth, but it comes with some risks or go with the standard 7", but ive been hearing most are getting 7-7.5" with him, but you have to understand that your typically going to loose some depth after the healing process.  Could be 1/2 to 1" It all varies per patient.  Imo,  if you  have the $ and want to stay in the US go with Meltzer.  He has done the most MTF without complications (major that is or permanent).  Suporn would be my other choice if going to Thailand or the guy from Serbia that Dr Shrang referred me to.  He was highly regarded by  him.  I know though when youve had mishaps, it can make one leary about any Dr.  I dont think you will go wrong with these two tho.  They are the top in their fields.

Sava Perovic died April 4, 2010.



Unless there is bad reporting going on again.

^That is horrible news!  He was the only Dr. that Dr. Eugene Shrang even would consider as an SRS that was up to his standards. 

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 11, 2010, 05:58:02 PM
^That is horrible news!  He was the only Dr. that Dr. Eugene Shrang even would consider as an SRS that was up to his standards.

So what would Shrangs opinion be of Dr. Brassard?

It is indeed horrible news. He was who I wanted to go to. Now I have no idea of what I am going to do.

Quote from: Kristyn on April 11, 2010, 07:03:42 PM
So what would Shrangs opinion be of Dr. Brassard?

dont know??  I talked to him on the phone several times then about a yr b4 he passed then.  I called him (Dr. Shrang) because i thought from his photos and ppl ive talked to, that his work was the pinnacle of SRS..his MTF was so close to genetic you could not tell the difference.  And i have seen his work directly from a person i know that he did.  He told me..and these are his exact words.." All the surgeons out there now are butchers".  I guess he when he used to give clinics, he tried teaching these new up and coming drs who are now the predominants..his techniques, which he said are very simple, but they did want to learn, so he stopped doing them.  They wanted to do their own thing.  I was willing to pay him triple what he charged, but he laughed.  I know after two yrs of retirement that he had lost all his hospital privileges, but i was serious.   I  would have paid him up to... well lets just say a small fortune to get his butt out, but i think he was pretty well settled into retirement.  He did say he had been thinking about getting out of retirement just to do a few ppl of referral, but i guess he opted out. Thats when he mentioned the Dr. from Serbia.  He couldnt remember his name, but he said it started with a "P" so  i did alittle searching and found him., I personally think Brassard does pretty  good work, but imo no where  near what Dr.Shrang did. I hadnt seen any of Perovic's work and he sounded really busy, so in haste i went with Dr. Meltzer.  I wish i could find someone that this Perovic did so i could see how good he was. Its a shame, cause he wasnt that old.  I wish someone would have learned Dr. Shrangs techniques.   

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 11, 2010, 10:00:08 PM
dont know??  I talked to him on the phone several times then about a yr b4 he passed then.  I called him (Dr. Shrang) because i thought from his photos and ppl ive talked to, that his work was the pinnacle of SRS..his MTF was so close to genetic you could not tell the difference.  And i have seen his work directly from a person i know that he did.  He told me..and these are his exact words.." All the surgeons out there now are butchers".  I guess he when he used to give clinics, he tried teaching these new up and coming drs who are now the predominants..his techniques, which he said are very simple, but they did want to learn, so he stopped doing them.  They wanted to do their own thing.  I was willing to pay him triple what he charged, but he laughed.  I know after two yrs of retirement that he had lost all his hospital privileges, but i was serious.   I  would have paid him up to... well lets just say a small fortune to get his butt out, but i think he was pretty well settled into retirement.  He did say he had been thinking about getting out of retirement just to do a few ppl of referral, but i guess he opted out. Thats when he mentioned the Dr. from Serbia.  He couldnt remember his name, but he said it started with a "P" so  i did alittle searching and found him., I personally think Brassard does pretty  good work, but imo no where  near what Dr.Shrang did. I hadnt seen any of Perovic's work and he sounded really busy, so in haste i went with Dr. Meltzer.  I wish i could find someone that this Perovic did so i could see how good he was. Its a shame, cause he wasnt that old.  I wish someone would have learned Dr. Shrangs techniques.   

So, what is it that differentiates Shrangs technique from the rest?  Are you happy with the results Meltzer gave you?

I think calling all the other surgeons doing srs  'butchers' is pretty harsh, many do good work. 

Dr. Perovic was 62. While not old, it is almost retirement age.

Quote from: LordKAT on April 11, 2010, 10:42:17 PM
Dr. Perovic was 62. While not old, it is almost retirement age.

actually 72
http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/125/Dru%C5%A1tvo/611591/Preminuo+akademik+Sava+Perovi%C4%87.html (http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/125/Dru%C5%A1tvo/611591/Preminuo+akademik+Sava+Perovi%C4%87.html)

Quote from: FlanHusky on April 11, 2010, 10:54:34 PM
actually 72
http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/125/Dru%C5%A1tvo/611591/Preminuo+akademik+Sava+Perovi%C4%87.html (http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/125/Dru%C5%A1tvo/611591/Preminuo+akademik+Sava+Perovi%C4%87.html)

That was what I thought but  1947 to 2010,  math doesn't add up to 72

http://www.savaperovic.com/ (http://www.savaperovic.com/)

i did a calculator (im horrible at math!) and it actually came out to 63 :/
i guess it depends what month he was born

Quote from: LordKAT on April 11, 2010, 11:55:21 PM
That was what I thought but  1947 to 2010,  math doesn't add up to 72

http://www.savaperovic.com/ (http://www.savaperovic.com/)

hmm
american free press also says 72
(from earlier link)
Perovic was born in 1937 in Belgrade, where he finished overall education (Faculty of Medicine, Ph.D., specialization in pediatric surgery and urology).

Oh well, 72 it is then. I picked a page with an error.  Either way , he is gone and I wish he wasn't.

Quote from: Kristyn on April 11, 2010, 10:14:07 PM
So, what is it that differentiates Shrangs technique from the rest?  Are you happy with the results Meltzer gave you?

I think calling all the other surgeons doing srs  'butchers' is pretty harsh, many do good work.

I am just quoting what he (Dr.Shrang) said on the phone that is all. I was kind of shocked too, as that is a pretty harsh word to use, but that is how he felt so who am i to refute someone of such skills.  As far as there being "alot" of surgeons that do good work..?? It all depends on what you mean by "good".  I have spent a small fortune on myself, and i look for perfection, not good.  I did not just want to go with someone because they are on reality TV, TG, or because alot of TG's are say how great someone is when i do not now know by seeing actual ppl (and i have ways of finding ppl that will show) and looking at exact photos.  I do NOT go by hearsay. Lol, i do not know the techniques he used, im sure that he would not tell a lay person, but he was 2 stage i do know that.   I can speak for Dr.Shrang's work, because i have seen it on a "live" patient and in photos.  I have not seen anyone now that replicates a genetic females anatomy like he did. As far as Perovic, i taked to him several times, but his website contained i believe mostly that of FTM not MTF, so imo it seemed like it was more his forte, but Dr. Shrang seemed to think that that he was the only one now/well past tense now, that was anywhere near what he considered up to par with what he did.  I do ALOT of research and when i speak it is not from hearsay.  As far as Dr. Meltzer..I am pretty much happy..although i have had some issues ( still ongoing) that i will not go into detail on an open forum with.  I am not that far out post-op to give a final conclusion.  I am not in favor of 2 stage over single stage though, because from what i have been reading, hearing, it may provide a more anatomical genetic outcome.

Perovic's technique was an interesting urethral flap modified inversion. before Dr.Shrang's website was removed, he had a note about it, explaining how he didn't like it.

QuoteThe Mucosal Flap

As M/F Sex Reassignment developed in my hands, I realized that there is very little mucosa present in the genetic male's genitalia as opposed to the genetic female. All that there is lines the Urethra; therefore, precious little exists and every effort should be made to preserve as much of it as possible for aesthetic and functional use.

For this reason I make sure that mucosa extends from the urethral opening upward to cover the Clitoris and some of the Labia Minora; but more is available that can be utilized and this additional mucosa can be incorporated into the skin graft as a mucosal flap but only if a graft is used.

Because of the way the anatomy is structured, a mucosal flap cannot be used if there is no graft. The flap eventually ends up deep within the neo-vagina and theoretically should secret fluid for lubrication just like it is observed to cause wetness between the Clitoris to the Urethral opening.

Microscopically, there are few secretory glands in the Urethral mucosa but virtually everyone who ever had one done and reported back states that they have had good self lubrication. Keep in mind, however, that many patients who never had a mucosal flap self lubricate; this most likely is due to the fact that skin, when placed within the body, becomes more "mucosa-like" and could secrete some fluid. This lubricating fluid probably comes from Cowper's glands which are left intact and secretions from the Prostate Gland which, of course, is not removed.

Because the dissection of the flap is tedious and time-consuming, more is charged for its construction and incorporation into the graft.

Is it worth it? Frankly, I am not completely convinced that it works that well in spite of all the good reports and probably would not have it myself. It is done only upon request.

Quote
Vaginoplasty in male transsexuals using penile skin and a urethral flap
S.V. PEROVIC, D.S. STANOJEVIC and M.L.J. DJORDJEVIC
Belgrade Gender Dysphoria Team, University of Belgrade, Yugoslavia

Objectives
To describe and present the results of a one-stage vaginoplasty in male-to-female sex reassignment surgery.

Patients and methods
The present technique is based on penile disassembly and the use of all penile components for vaginoplasty (except the corpora cavernosa). The neovagina consists of two parts; a long vascularized urethral flap and a pedicled island tube skin flap created from the penile skin. The urethral flap is embedded into the skin tube. The tube, consisting of skin and the urethral flap, is inverted, thus forming the neovagina. The new vagina is inserted into the previously prepared perineal cavity between the urethra, bladder and rectum. The neovagina is then fixed to the sacrospinous ligament. The labia minora and majora are formed from remaining penile and scrotal skin. The new method was used in 89 patients (mean age 28 years, range 18±56) with a mean (range) follow-up of 4.6 (0.25±6) years.

Results
Good cosmetic and functional results were obtained in 77 of the 89 patients (87%). Importantly, the neovagina produced in most patients was of satisfactory depth and width. There was only one major complication, a rectovaginal fistula caused by intraoperative injury to the rectum.

Conclusions
The technique produces a vagina with more normal anatomical and physiological characteristics than those produced by other methods, as all the penile components are used (except for the corpora cavernosa) to form almost normal external female genitalia. Vaginoplasty using pedicled penile skin with a urethral flap is a good alternative to other methods of vaginoplasty in male-to-female sex reassignment surgery.

edit: rest of surgery info here
http://www.mediafire.com/?dlzzunnzmzo (http://www.mediafire.com/?dlzzunnzmzo)

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 02:04:53 PM
I am just quoting what he (Dr.Shrang) said on the phone that is all. I was kind of shocked too, as that is a pretty harsh word to use, but that is how he felt so who am i to refute someone of such skills.  As far as there being "alot" of surgeons that do good work..?? It all depends on what you mean by "good".

I guess I'm just using good in the universal sense--by good and bad I mean exceptional and pitiful respectively.

Quote
I have spent a small fortune on myself, and i look for perfection, not good.  I did not just want to go with someone because they are on reality TV, TG, or because alot of TG's are say how great someone is when i do not now know by seeing actual ppl (and i have ways of finding ppl that will show) and looking at exact photos. 

And judging by your avatar you look fantastic.  It is very hard to find people who are willing to show you their results.  I've tried--perhaps my approach was wrong.  I like most others have to rely on the written experiences posted here and on other forums.  During my consult with Brassard I asked if he has photos of his recent results.  His reply was no, but after seeing the discouragement on my face, he obliged to showing me what he has--all of which I've seen before.  He did, however elaborate on those photos.

Quote
I do NOT go by hearsay. Lol, i do not know the techniques he used, im sure that he would not tell a lay person, but he was 2 stage i do know that.   I can speak for Dr.Shrang's work, because i have seen it on a "live" patient and in photos.  I have not seen anyone now that replicates a genetic females anatomy like he did. As far as Perovic, i taked to him several times, but his website contained i believe mostly that of FTM not MTF, so imo it seemed like it was more his forte, but Dr. Shrang seemed to think that that he was the only one now/well past tense now, that was anywhere near what he considered up to par with what he did.  I do ALOT of research and when i speak it is not from hearsay.

I'm not disputing that, I believe you.  I can, to some degree, understand what Dr. Shrang is implying with his statement as well.  It was very different twenty years ago, even ten years ago.  As the fore runners of modern day srs and ffs procedures begin to retire, I think we will begin to see more of a shift from surgeries being performed to benefit trans people to surgeries being performed strictly for commercial gain.  However, I'm still pretty confident with Brassard's work and the only other doctor I would choose would be Meltzer.

Quote
As far as Dr. Meltzer..I am pretty much happy..although i have had some issues ( still ongoing) that i will not go into detail on an open forum with.

Would you discuss it in a PM, or not at all?

Quote
I am not that far out post-op to give a final conclusion.

How long have you been post op?

Quote from: Kristyn on April 13, 2010, 07:15:38 PM
I guess I'm just using good in the universal sense--by good and bad I mean exceptional and pitiful respectively.


And judging by your avatar you look fantastic.  It is very hard to find people who are willing to show you their results.  I've tried--perhaps my approach was wrong.  I like most others have to rely on the written experiences posted here and on other forums.  During my consult with Brassard I asked if he has photos of his recent results.  His reply was no, but after seeing the discouragement on my face, he obliged to showing me what he has--all of which I've seen before.  He did, however elaborate on those photos.


I'm not disputing that, I believe you.  I can, to some degree, understand what Dr. Shrang is implying with his statement as well.  It was very different twenty years ago, even ten years ago.  As the fore runners of modern day srs and ffs procedures begin to retire, I think we will begin to see more of a shift from surgeries being performed to benefit trans people to surgeries being performed strictly for commercial gain.  However, I'm still pretty confident with Brassard's work and the only other doctor I would choose would be Meltzer.


Would you discuss it in a PM, or not at all?

How long have you been post op?

Ok, i will elaborate alittle further.  For one, yes it is good to go on forums or any avenue to seek answers/questions, gain knowledge, but it is up to you to decide if these ppl making these awesome remarks are just ecstatic young ppl that are just elated from just having the SRS done or speaking in terms of what is good from very good work.  I have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.  I tend to doubt such quickness, but then when you hear more than one person saying the same things you tend to wonder, but you have to also consider age ranges of these patients and other variables.  It could be true, but i do not think it would be the "norm".  Also, his technique kinda of alters depth to make it seem like you are gaining more depth when in fact you are not.  Also, within the healing process, one will almost always loose some depth due to the natural healing process.  I am just using an example here.  I can understand ppl not willing to show, as ppl may make neg comments or post them up for other ppl to see, so you would have to really know the person well imo.  It has not been more than two years since i talked with Dr. Shrang, so his comment was not based on old techniques. Like i said above, I have seen his work upfront.  I know a person that showed me her vagina and it imo, and i am a perfectionist, was absolutely perfect.  This person that showed me is in her mid 50's and her vagina looks as of a woman in her late 20's.  And no it is not a genetic issue, because i have seen other parts of this person.  No we didnt have a sexual relationship.  I am saying all this, because i know what ppl think when i say ive see this persons parts, but she was just being helpful, clearly just a friend.  If you are confident with Brassard's work then go with your gut.  If you have done the necessary research, it still does not guarantee the outcome you might expect, as everyone's anatomy is different and heals differently.  I am speculative on this Dr. Brassard not being very happy about showing you pictures an how old are these pictures??  Right now i am not too happy with Dr. Meltzer's head nurse and not getting back with me at all.  It was all good before i had SRS with them.  They treated me well, their head nurse ( I am not mentioning names here), but i have been going through all his staff in having her get back with me, but im always getting someone else.  I also have some post op issues that i guess they do not seem to care enough, but to have some off site nurse call me every 3 wks to see how im doing.  Get where im going here??  Their aftercare..need i say more.  Thanks for the compliment btw, but i was kind of attractive as a male, so it was i guess not so hard to make me look even better and hormones helped me a great deal, not only with body, but with my face.  I workout like crazy, so it is not all the hormones help.  I found that if you want to truly look feminine, yes good genetics helps, but if you are not willing to eat properly, workout, cardio, hormones can only do so much.  If you have something specific you want to know you may pm me sure. Oh..I think there are plenty of Dr's/plastic surgeon's that do SRS right now that are doing it strictly for financial gain, lol!

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 10:37:17 PM
I have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.  I tend to doubt such quickness, but then when you hear more than one person saying the same things you tend to wonder, but you have to also consider age ranges of these patients and other variables.  It could be true, but i do not think it would be the "norm".

I have 7" from Dr Suporn. Our dilators have depth gauges so that we can see how close we are to our full depth, so I know for certain that it is true. I did lose a little depth over time, originally I was about 7 and a quarter. The clitoral area is very sensitive, yes. For me it was hypersensitive after surgery, and was actually very uncomfortable for the first week or two out of hospital, but it went away after that. There are pros and cons to all surgeons, but when people talk about Dr Suporns results with depth and sensation and call it the norm, they are definitely telling the truth (depth is why I chose him over others).

I've heard about the patients who have been orgasmic so soon after surgery. Dr Suporn makes it clear that patients should refrain from having any sexual thoughts until fully healed, otherwise the stitches can pop due to swelling etc. If they are orgasmic that quickly, it's actually not a good thing, and they should be thinking about baseball or something. :)

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 10:37:17 PMI have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.

My first measurement the day he removed the packing was 8" but since then I've gone down to 7" and holding steady. Orgasm on day 20 while dilating (yes that earned me a gentle slap on the wrist :angel: ) and still have clitoral hypersensitivity 40 days post-op, which makes merely walking an *interesting* experience. Yet another anecdote. :)

QuoteAlso, his technique kinda of alters depth to make it seem like you are gaining more depth when in fact you are not.

Oh how so? I'm just curious what it is that does this.

Quoteand still have clitoral hypersensitivity 40 days post-op, which makes merely walking an *interesting* experience.

Ok.

you have my attention.

;)

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 10:37:17 PM
Ok, i will elaborate alittle further.  For one, yes it is good to go on forums or any avenue to seek answers/questions, gain knowledge, but it is up to you to decide if these ppl making these awesome remarks are just ecstatic young ppl that are just elated from just having the SRS done or speaking in terms of what is good from very good work.  I have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.  I tend to doubt such quickness, but then when you hear more than one person saying the same things you tend to wonder, but you have to also consider age ranges of these patients and other variables.  It could be true, but i do not think it would be the "norm".

I kind of wonder about that as well since I've heard of people who have had amazing sensitivity immediately after surgery with a drop off 6-8 months later.  Perhaps those early feelings are not so much orgasmic as something else due to nerve healing--perhaps just some sort of spasm or something.  I'm not a doctor so I can't really word it better than that.

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Also, his technique kinda of alters depth to make it seem like you are gaining more depth when in fact you are not.  Also, within the healing process, one will almost always loose some depth due to the natural healing process.

I honestly can't comment since I don't really understand the colon procedure being used in Thailand.  I was somewhat unclear of the penile inversion technique until Brassard cleared it up nicely for me.

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  I am just using an example here.  I can understand ppl not willing to show, as ppl may make neg comments or post them up for other ppl to see, so you would have to really know the person well imo.

It's too bad that many are reluctant to even post in an anonymous forum.  There is a Yahoo newsgroup called Trans Surgery where people post there results, but many are Suporn patients with only one Brassard patient.  It's also too bad that so many drop off the radar following surgery--posting in great detail pre and immediately post-operatively, but leaving us hanging by not posting about their progress as time goes on.  THis makes me wonder as well.

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If you are confident with Brassard's work then go with your gut.  If you have done the necessary research, it still does not guarantee the outcome you might expect, as everyone's anatomy is different and heals differently.

Exactly.  This is a point I failed to make in my last reply.  Aesthetics and, to some extent, depth depends entirely on the amount of tissue the doctor has to work with, while the overall outcome depends on the patient, her health and how well she heals.

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I am speculative on this Dr. Brassard not being very happy about showing you pictures an how old are these pictures??

I'm not saying he was not happy about showing me current results, I'm saying he did not have many.  The photos he showed were more or less the ones floating around the Web, give or take a couple.  While showing me these he did go into detail about specific images.  Thinking about this further, I can understand why.  Brassard doesn't have a follow-up program of any kind and any photos of healed results would have to be supplied by the patient.  I'm not sure of how many people are really going to send their results to him a year or so later.  It would be great if he were to ask patients to do just that so as to build up a decent portfolio.  As well, taking photos shortly after the stent is removed and before the patient leaves the residence would not make for a very appealing book.

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  Right now i am not too happy with Dr. Meltzer's head nurse and not getting back with me at all.  It was all good before i had SRS with them.  They treated me well, their head nurse ( I am not mentioning names here), but i have been going through all his staff in having her get back with me, but im always getting someone else.  I also have some post op issues that i guess they do not seem to care enough, but to have some off site nurse call me every 3 wks to see how im doing.  Get where im going here??

I do.  A total lack of professionalism all too common today in various industries/professions.  Sorry to hear and I hope you get your issues resolved and heal well.

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I workout like crazy, so it is not all the hormones help.  I found that if you want to truly look feminine, yes good genetics helps, but if you are not willing to eat properly, workout, cardio, hormones can only do so much.

I'm with you here as I work out 5x per week--3x strength/cardio and 2x cardio.  Eat well, but not too much--little to no red meats, but I do eat eggs and fish.  I also supplement with, not only vitamins/minerals, but protein and amino acids as well.  After twelve years or so living full time, hormones, etc., I've made the most gains this year alone.  I've dropped from a size 12-14 to a size 6-8.  I can't tout the benefits of fitness and nutrition more!  I just hope I don't gain too much back after surgery.

The above comments are exactly why i now wish i had not worried so much about going to Thailand and using Dr. Suporn over Dr. Meltzer.  I have heard this from many TG about the depth and sensitivity.  With Meltzer it is nowhere near hyper for me, not even merely sensitive.  Depth is around 6" at best and that is using alot of pressure and i am having problems with irritation as well.  I have also heard from a couple post op of Meltzer's that this is not an uncommon issue.  Problem was that i didnt hear alot of feed back on Meltzer at the time and anything i heard was that if you have the $ go with him.  Now i might possibly know for sure that its not all about the $, but the post op result, issues after and after care. I feel now quite bummed that i didnt choose Dr. Suporn.  I have even brought up the instances about Suporn with Meltzer and he makes very technical remarks about how his techniques allow for more depth, but that it is some kind of an illusion because of how he places..i dont know different areas.  I couldnt quit grasp.  I talked to him about Suporn patents having orgasms so early and he said it is based on individuals being different and such, but i think its a bunch of bunk, being i am hearing this from alot of TG not just a couple.  I wish i could do it over again, but i cant.  Big thing is that Suporn is about half the price of Meltzer and i do not hear many of having to do labia revisions.,  Ive already had one revision and im still not satisfied with the Mons area and this is not a "me" being really particular one either.  I hope my email friend reads this and realizes sometime going out of the country is necessary if you want to achieve something that actually functions and works like the genetic counterpart.  I wish only that some post op Meltzer patients would speak up here and so others know something, as at least i am tell alittle indept about my experiences with him.,

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 14, 2010, 10:23:54 AM
I have heard this from many TG about the depth and sensitivity.  With Meltzer it is nowhere near hyper for me, not even merely sensitive.

You didn't mention how far post-op you are.  Do you have any feeling at all, or is it just numbness.  Perhaps given time and maybe working the area may help.  I've read about particular amino acids and anti-oxidants which aid in the regeneration of nerves.

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Depth is around 6" at best and that is using alot of pressure and i am having problems with irritation as well.

6inches is relatively common and considered quite good with penile inversion.  Could the irritation be caused by dryness perhaps?

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Problem was that i didnt hear alot of feed back on Meltzer at the time and anything i heard was that if you have the $ go with him.

You're right.  There is almost nothing out there about him.  I've only heard of a couple people going to him for aesthetic revisions.  My reason for him being a second choice was pretty much the same as yours.

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I have even brought up the instances about Suporn with Meltzer and he makes very technical remarks about how his techniques allow for more depth, but that it is some kind of an illusion because of how he places..i dont know different areas.

He makes no sense with that remark.  If the dilator is inside and measuring at the 7 or 8 inch mark, how can that be an illusion?  Sounds like a buch of BS to me.

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I couldnt quit grasp.  I talked to him about Suporn patents having orgasms so early and he said it is based on individuals being different and such, but i think its a bunch of bunk, being i am hearing this from alot of TG not just a couple.

I'm hearing a lot of good from Thailand and a lot of good from Montreal.  That being said, we are probably only hearing from about 1-2%.  What about the others?  For example, SarahR posted a remarkable account of her Montreal experience, but in between the time she arrived and left, Brassard must have done about six other surgeries that we have not heard about.  How are those results?  We will never know.

In regards to sensitivity, orgasms, etc.  I don't understand how it could be so much the doctors technique.  If the nerves are being preserved, wouldn't it be more an issue of healing?

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I wish i could do it over again, but i cant.  Big thing is that Suporn is about half the price of Meltzer and i do not hear many of having to do labia revisions.,  Ive already had one revision and im still not satisfied with the Mons area and this is not a "me" being really particular one either.  I hope my email friend reads this and realizes sometime going out of the country is necessary if you want to achieve something that actually functions and works like the genetic counterpart.  I wish only that some post op Meltzer patients would speak up here and so others know something, as at least i am tell alittle indept about my experiences with him.,

I'm truly sorry for the position you are in, but I thank you for posting your account.  I too wish that things can be better for you and maybe they will in time.

Quote from: Kristyn on April 14, 2010, 01:03:31 PM
He makes no sense with that remark.  If the dilator is inside and measuring at the 7 or 8 inch mark, how can that be an illusion?  Sounds like a buch of BS to me.

might be the so called "Chonburi organ", which is really the neurovascular bundle otherwise leading to the glans penis, folded between the clitoris and the urethral opening, obstructing the top side of the stent making the illusion of depth (since it isn't measured correctly).

   Hey there Flan. I'm a 40+ or so day post op Suporn patient and I wanted to make a comment about the depth thing you have mentioned. Yes, you are right about the Chonburi organ in its placement. However, it contributing to a false concept of depth is wrong. Our dilators have very accurate markings (cm/in). All surgeons use the same way of measuring depth- by measuring from the labia majora.

   Immediately after surgery, I had 7.2 inches of depth measured from my rather swollen labia majora, however to combat the somewhat uneven rate in which the swelling went down, I began to measure at the point in which it "disappears" into my body, visible by using a mirror. The point is, both methods are irrespective of the "Chonburi Organ" as we don't measure from the top and all of us are given a mirror ;).

   Depending on how serious you take dilation, you can gain some depth in the first 3 months post op with Dr. Suporn (or lose it!). Month 2 and 3 are when scar contraction begins and ends and I'm on the second month now, my depth using my method of measuring about 7.5 inches.

 

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Post Merge: April 14, 2010, 07:59:12 PM

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   As for sensitivity, whoa. The first weeks out of the hospital I couldn't go anywhere near touching even my clit because my whole body would jolt, but while in Chonburi you have to apply a white cream between the lips and on the the clit under the hood and that woke me up more than a shot of espresso so I ended up having to do a lot of jolting!

  Even now it's so sensitive that sometimes walking can be stimulating. I can bring myself near orgasm just by opening and closing my legs. The hypersensitivity will eventually fade into a state of more realistic sensitivity but Suporn surely knows how to make a sensitive vagina, even the lips have sensation. Still getting used to it and I'm really happy about that.

Cosmetically I'm very pleased as well (so is my partner). Like Michelle, I was nervous to go to Thailand too. Her and I even talked together about that over coffee before I left! But I'm very glad I did. Michelle, don't regret your surgical choice so much. I'm sure by the time I am  your age, there will be some option for srs that is far superior to what I have so it is best to think of the mentality of "what's done is done" and to learn to love what you have, even if you tweak it a little! I'm sure sensitivity will return, and one of the reasons I canceled my surgery with Meltzer was a few stories of wonky aftercare that made my feet cold. I'm sure what you have is adequate!

It is really nice to see the honesty and openness in most of these postings. Sadly, that is a bit of a rarity. Most girls seem to want to direct people to the surgeon they used simply to reinforce that their decision was correct. One girl wrote the following explanaition which kind of sums up that tendency of many people. I also wonder what happens with the silent majority of Tans women that do not post at all or perhaps they just moved on with their lives. It would be nice to see some of them come back to post on occasion.Here are the thoughts I mentioned quoted below

"My most important thought about asking people about their experiences is that in virtually every case, everyone is happy with their choice of surgeon and everyone is happy with their result.  Further, everyone wants to believe they made the best choice and want to see that choice validated by having others make the same choice.  As a consequence, you really can't trust anyone's account of their own experience and satisfaction with their own surgeon and surgery (and that includes me).

Is there a difference between these surgeons?  I'm sure there is.  They use different techniques and they are bound to produce different results.  Does it matter which one you go to?  That depends on how you view the question.  Whatever surgeon you go to, you are in all likelihood going to be happy with the result.  However, that is much more a function of human psychology than it is a question of the result.  This is a major decision.  It's a permanent change to your body.  No one likes to think they made a wrong decision.  So people convince themselves they made the right choice.  They ignore any evidence that there may have been better choices.  They go on to become vocal advocates of the choice they made to continue convincing themselves they made the right choice.  I have never met anyone who says they really wish they had gone to a different surgeon.

Paraphrased * Many people feel that their choice of surgeon must be validated, and they want others to make the same choice to validate her choice.  As such, you really can't place faith in anything they say. Some people are so over-the-top about it that they destroy their own credibility, they injects a bunch of misleading and unreliable information into the discourse, and they cause people to think that they can't trust any negative information about a particular doctor.  They are not doing anyone any favors, either the Dr. or the trans community.*

I've seen people do this time and time again.  I've seen all kinds of fights over one Dr VS another, and American doctors vs. Thai doctors.  Everyone just digs in and supports their choice and discredits everyone else's.  I've seen enough of this that I know you can't trust people's own opinion of their own surgeries.  I try to keep this in mind and be as honest as I can, being open about both the good and the bad.  We need a lot more of that.  However, even I have a bias.  I'm a human being.  I too want to think I made a good choice.  I don't want to think I screwed up my body where a different choice would have been better.  I have other biases too.

So, we have to take people's own accounts with a grain of salt.  There are differences between these surgeons, but you are not going to find them by asking their patients.  The reality is that SRS has gotten fairly sophisticated, but it's still in its adolescence.  There isn't a profession wide, medically accepted standard for how this surgery should be done.  It's not a tonsillectomy.  It is just a little past it's experimental phase, and now in a period where different doctors take their own different approaches to how it is done.  Some surgeons are starting to borrow from each other, and there are some cases where you can get the same basic approach to surgery from different surgeons.  However, for the most part, choosing a surgeon means choosing a philosophical approach to the surgery.

So, in looking at surgeons, I would say the best thing to consider is 1) their approach to the surgery and 2) their level of experience with it.  Level of experience is important for two reasons: A) it's a reflection of their level of surgical experience in general and their ability to deal with and avoid complications and B) these surgeries are still at least in part experimental, and you want someone who has conducted a lot of experiments (patients) to have been able to hone in their technique.  After that you can start considering things like price, location, or even complaint history.  Lastly, consider the person doing the surgery.  You have to feel that you can trust them, both in their competency and their character.

Try to find out in detail exactly how each of these surgeons approach their surgeries and what is different about them.  Explore the pros and cons of each of the differences.  Decide for yourself which differences are important to you and which ones are trivial.  When you get down to a short list based on that, inquire about the number of surgeries they have performed.  Then start making inquiries about individual's experiences with them, and take what they say with a grain of salt.

The reason there are so many approaches to the surgery is that none of them are perfect.  They all have trade-offs, they all have virtues, they all have shortcomings, and they all have disappointments.  If there were one perfect approach, everyone would do it.  No matter who you go to, there's going to be something about it that isn't exactly what you find on a natal woman.  Now, after the surgery you may convince yourself that you made the perfect choice and the results are perfect like most people do, making those deficiencies unnoticeable.  That also means, based on the experience of others, that the only time when you will be able to view this subject with a rational mind is before surgery.  After the surgery, you can't trust your own opinion.  Viewed the other way, what difference does it make who you go to?  Based on the experience of others, you're going to be completely happy with the result no matter what they are.  That's the paradox of SRS.  We all sweat bullets over getting the best surgery before hand, and are happy with whatever we get afterward.  The question then is, do you stop sweating bullets before hand because the result doesn't matter, do you sweat more bullets before hand because you can't trust your reaction afterward, or do you refuse to delude yourself afterward and try to be honest with yourself all the way through?  That last one is the hardest."

What a bright girl IMO. While you may not agree with everything on this post, I really believe that it is a good and healthily thing to read it.  Hopefully you feel the same way, If not, apologies.

^I assure you my results and issues have nothing to do with psychology and I would never make a comment  just to validate a dr just because i used him.  He/ She is either good  or not doing something right.  I know alot of TG's seem to have to validate but im not like that and you know that huh?  Dr Meltzer is a very good surgeon, but i have not heard a word from anyone yet saying 7-8" or such sensitivity.  My sensation i will describe as waking up in the middle of the night with a male hard on but on my clitoris.  Is that  common??  Ive heard of tingling, but ive not had this once. I know you are untrusting, and i dont blame you, but i am speaking from recent experience that is ongoing and you know that.  Look at all the ppl that are saying positive things about Dr.  Suporn.  Do you hear anything about Dr. Meltzer other than he costs twice as much.  Sure i am bia now..Why, because they dont know how to get back with a former patient when they are having problems and when their head nurse make you feel like a queen b4 SRS,but  later wont reply to you. Ive spent over 100k with this Dr.   You tell me why i should give a good  referral on someone that not only has an office staff like that, but he too will not  get back with you on a potential procedure that you asked for a price on when you went on your pre op  for and you dont even have the answer b4 you leave.  If you do decide to use him and have followup issues or want revisions, you  will  find out exactly  what im talking  about.   Oh..I am 6 months post op from vaginoplasty.

Like I said: "It is really nice to see the honesty and openness in most of these postings".
It is really great that you are sharing your experiances - both good and not so good. Thank you for that - It REALLY helps those of us that are struggling to find our way...   

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Post Merge: April 14, 2010, 10:50:09 PM

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BTW, How do you join this group and not just be a visitor ?  ???

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 14, 2010, 10:11:57 PM
My sensation i will describe as waking up in the middle of the night with a male hard on but on my clitoris.  Is that  common??  Ive heard of tingling, but ive not had this once.

Actually I have heard of this.  There are medical studies online regarding phantom sensations post srs.  I'll find them and PM them to you

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..I am 6 months post op from vaginoplasty.

Six months is a relatively short time.  Please give it at least a year and try to stay positive.  The stress can only make things worse.  Stay positive and try to visualize the results you want.

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Post Merge: April 14, 2010, 11:05:40 PM

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Quote from: gentle_patience on April 14, 2010, 10:45:09 PM

BTW, How do you join this group and not just be a visitor ?  ???

I think all you have to do is register and wait for an approval :)  Then ther's a certain amount of posts you must reach before you view profiles and PM people, etc

  About not being able to trust your own opinion; your post op result is one thing if you are truly 100% biased on your outcome. Having this surgery completed involves more than the surgery itself, with aftercare correspondence and management as well as your own body's way of healing. Michelle is taking all things into account her experience as a whole and from a seemingly negative standpoint, which I think is a wonderful way to learn about the pros and cons of a surgeon.

   As for taking people's results for a grain of salt? I don't agree. If we were to ask the surgeon themselves of their results and photos then we would receive the highest level of bias: a sales perspective from the surgeon. I've sat down and spoke to all Brassard/Meltzer/Bowers themselves before I made my choice and I was humoured by their ease to insult other surgeons work, and their inability to say no. Research is best done with your own studies of a procedures mechanics, and the patients that have had it done - just watch for outlandish statements.

  In closing, my own experience was good as far as outcome goes. However, the caveats to my choice with Dr. Suporn is the particular strenuous dilation schedule his procedure calls for. It is rather a test of my will and it takes me quite some time to relax enough to do it so I can honestly say that the next 2 months of my life are shot and owned by dilation. It gets far easier after the 3rd month I am told but that remains to be seen. The other downside being the lack of a posterior fourchette, which in some patients can look like a somewhat obvious hole where the vaginal entrance should be. On myself this is not so, because my penile skin was long enough to provide the illusion of a posterior fourchette with my labia minora. My own personal result was excellent, evidenced by his pride in his work on me so I am not sure if I am the "norm".

  One other downside is just the complexity of the procedure. Asides from the colon method you can find elsewhere, Suporn's technique is far the most invasive. How this is handled by one's body is very subjective. Complications are very low, but they happen as with any surgeon. What Suporn's technique will rob you of is time and energy for the first 3-6 months because of the sheer amount that was changed. This is coming from a 22 year old cardio and yoga fanatic who has a very good diet. I was back on my feet and walking the day out of the hospital,  but even at 40+ days there are days where my ass is just kicked. For many of the older patients I speak to, normal life really didn't resume for them until six months post op because of how taxing the recovery process is. The upside to this, is that through the complexity, and through all the hard work - I felt it would be worth it because I felt that through his procedure, all of the tissues were in their right place and the end result 1 year post op would be something I would be comfortable having on my body. Years and money went into my "Sweating Bullet" process and I have every right to remain critical about my outcome, and be happy about it and share both sides with others.

  Aftercare is, however, excellent. One should stay the 30 days or so post op in Chonburi for that reason alone. As a nurse myself, I am still in awe at the treatment I received there and can say that a spoiled brat like myself could want for nothing. (Except a few food items I couldn't find there perhaps!)

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Post Merge: April 15, 2010, 09:57:32 AM

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QuoteMy sensation i will describe as waking up in the middle of the night with a male hard on but on my clitoris.  Is that  common??  Ive heard of tingling, but ive not had this once.

   Meltzer's technique purges the erectile tissue of the penis. I have another Meltzer patient friend who has the same complaints about sensitivity but another strange problem; her sexual sensation comes from the mons pubis instead of the clitoris itself. That would be rather hard to explain in a bedroom situation I think! "Hey baby, I actually prefer if you lick me atop my pubic mound instead, away from my clit or even the hood!"

   My own experience with the phantom penis pains is a rather short story. For me they only occured in the hospital, when I had packing on. I told my partner that it was like having the worlds biggest boner in the tightest leather pants available!

  Anyway, what you are experiencing is common. I can feel my clit swollen when I wake up, but it doesn't feel like a hard on at all. However, when my clit gets engorged I've called it's place under the hood "The Iron Maiden" because the self dissolving stitches in that area are pretty poky when it gets swollen (UNCOMFORTABLE!)

  I would interpret tingling as a good thing, as it can be nerves reattaching or some other indication of life. Don't lose hope yet, 6 months is relatively new as post op!

Am i gathering here (I'm slow, bear with me...) that Suporn doesn't do penile inversion?

He's getting these well reviewed results with what? the procedure that uses colon tissue or whatever (don't know at the moment what it's called)?

Someone give me the "for dummies" explination on that.

Also, if anyone has a link to any "comparative photography" source, yahoo group or whatever, i'd appreciate it - either here or via PM

QuoteAm i gathering here (I'm slow, bear with me...) that Suporn doesn't do penile inversion?

  Hi there Laura. Suporn does NEITHER Penile inversion or Colon surgery. He uses a technique in which he uses the scrotal tissue as the entire vaginal canal and fashions the penile skin as the labia minora, clitoral frenulum, hood, and the bundle of nerves that provide sexual sensation to the penis as the clitoris. That's a very simplified explanation of his technique but it will do to dispel your confusion. Most people around here just call it the "non inversion technique". But scrotal flap technique will do. =)

He using the inner mucosa lining Metzer doesnt and Meltzer is 2 stage.  I guess what i am trying to convey here is that although his staff initially are very nice, later if there are issues they will not answer u back.  Yes, a post op nurse will call on their behalf, but she is not the one that was there when you had your pre op consult or post op, as she is based in Oregon.  My question, would you want this kind of aftercare??  I am not telling you all this to make anyone feel sorry for me or to validate anything, just to let ppl know the TRUTH of what my experience with him were.  My issues are NOT in my mind.  I know what pain and irritation is and i know my own body as i have worked for myself in the heathfood and supplement industry for a long time.  I workout/trained for yrs to get my body like this, and it isnt easy, so i know full well how my body reacts and functions.  Although Dr Meltzer is a very good plastic surgeon, especially on face,  if i had to do it over again I would def go with Dr. Suporn with the SRS.  This is coming from the interaction with him and his staff..they just dont have it together.  And Patience, you will see they are extremely nice especially b4 SRS and afte SRS, but it is when you have issues or have further surgeries that you will find.."Where is Linda"  Tashia,  imo is not all that good with answers although she may be pretty, lol!  I am telling u this so you know up front b4 u make a decision and i know you are very apprehensive.  Do you want to have to wait a yr or more for orgasm? or to have good dilation? I know it is kind of a hassle going to Thai, but it may well be worth the trip.

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Post Merge: April 15, 2010, 10:55:26 AM

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Quote from: Kristyn on April 14, 2010, 11:03:40 PM
Actually I have heard of this.  There are medical studies online regarding phantom sensations post srs.  I'll find them and PM them to you

Six months is a relatively short time.  Please give it at least a year and try to stay positive.  The stress can only make things worse.  Stay positive and try to visualize the results you want.

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Post Merge: April 14, 2010, 10:05:40 PM

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I think all you have to do is register and wait for an approval :)  Then ther's a certain amount of posts you must reach before you view profiles and PM people, etc

Please if you can find out what this " phantom sensations" are i would appreciate it.  Sorry for all my typos bu i am in a huge hurry,lol

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Post Merge: April 15, 2010, 04:34:30 PM

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Quote from: Shryke on April 15, 2010, 09:21:23 AM
  I would interpret tingling as a good thing, as it can be nerves reattaching or some other indication of life. Don't lose hope yet, 6 months is relatively new as post op!

What i was implying is that i dont know what this tingling is, because i have not had it.  No tingling yet, only when i wake up at nite sometimes it is like a little hard on, but on the clitoral area.  That is the only sensation i get after six months and dilation is nothing but a trauma course in getting it up to where its supposed to be.  It take at least 30-40 minutes to get to the 6" mark and not easy pushing.  It is irritated and hurts until i  get it all the way in then to get to the 6" mark im pressing on it and moving it around until finally i reach that mark, then i wait the 20mins. So a total of at least an hr each dilation,  I dilate twice a day still.  If i dont and only do it once a day, its even harder.  Ive used different lubes, starting with surgilube, but about about 2-1/2 monts is when this all started.  At first Dr. Meltzer thought it was granulation tissue, so his post op nurse had  me  using Triamcinolone cream every other nite on the last dilatior with the #1 then when he saw me at my pre op for labiaplasty he did an exam and said he  saw no granulation tissue, but was very inflamed, so he though i might has got allergic reaction to the surgilube, so he said to use a silicon based on, so im not using something called Wet Platinium with alittle pure aloe along with Premarin cream every other day put the premarin on the tip of #1 dilator and have been doing this ever since. Sill no releif, but at my post op from my labia revision he said that the inflamation had gone down, but the skin was thin.  So im supposed to keep using the premarin and everything else the same.  Im still having pain and very hard time getting it up.  Btw, this is only one issue.  I have a Mons area now that looks as tho it is dented in, not the natural curve.  My top of the mons is fine, but right underneath it looks like it is sunken in.  Like a loss of fat or something like uneven.  Im very frustrated, cause i paid alot of money for this.

Quote from: Shryke on April 15, 2010, 11:26:11 AM
  Hi there Laura. Suporn does NEITHER Penile inversion or Colon surgery. He uses a technique in which he uses the scrotal tissue as the entire vaginal canal and fashions the penile skin as the labia minora, clitoral frenulum, hood, and the bundle of nerves that provide sexual sensation to the penis as the clitoris. That's a very simplified explanation of his technique but it will do to dispel your confusion. Most people around here just call it the "non inversion technique". But scrotal flap technique will do. =)

Oooo...sounds fascinating. I'd been pretty much dismissing Suporn out of hand because I was intimidated by the logistics of the trip (as if I'll ever have the money for SRS anyway) but this, particularly the reports about sensitivity to stimulation, have really got me reconsidering...

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 15, 2010, 11:48:15 AM

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Post Merge: April 15, 2010, 10:55:26 AM

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Please if you can find out what this " phantom sensations" are i would appreciate it.  Sorry for all my typos bu i am in a huge hurry,lol

PM'd you some links :)

Thanks Michelle - Good advice. I checked in with Suporn and soonest availability is Feb 2011 :-( I see Meltzer in 2-3 weeks and I promised myself I would wait till then to decide). Wish is was all over and done tho... yesterday

wait it out hun..pls...im telling you the truth.  Waiting tell Feb should tell you something about how many ppl he has wanting to have SRS with him.  I would bet you could have Dr. Meltzer do in in the beginning of summer if you wanted, but that should tell you something too.  I learned the hard way. Even if you have to fly out to Thai to see this guy to make up your mind.  I know the difficulties youve had and you dont want another one. Im thinking about seeing a specialist in vaginal/and urology in Atlanta to have this Mons area fixed.  I dont trust Meltzer, and if he didnt read his notes from my prior pre consult (or didnt write it down as i wanted it) on the Mons sides and just forgot and did lipo on the middle and sides, then at is why it is looking like this.  It actually looked better/tighter b4 he did the lipo when he did the labiaplasty.  I told him too i only want alittle on the sides, nothing in the middle and now i have this indentation in the middle of the mons area and actually sagging in the middle.  I work so hard on myself you know that..It is very, very frustrating, and summer is coming soon and you know im in the east coast.  Wanted to be truly done and have a good summer, not have to wait and do yet another revision.  Im going to get an opinion with this http://www.miklosandmoore.com/miklos.php (http://www.miklosandmoore.com/miklos.php) Maybe they can help me.  I dont want Dr. Meltzer touching me again!  And not even a tingling yet at 6months only a hornyness at nite, but its like i said a feeling on the clitoral area like a hard on would be but on the clitoris.  It isnt this Phantom thing either.  I know what that is and it doesnt feel like i have a penis, just i was trying to explain the feeling on the clitoris. Im telling u everywhere i go all i hear is Suporn, Suporn etc and everyone is elated with him and his staff, saying it is no coparison to a US hospital the care and treatment you get.  It may be a hassle but in the long run wouldnt you want to have a fulfilling sex live post op?  Im doning alot of research now..Hoping i can find someone else,but this person i speak of I met her, so i know she is telling the truth and she is a pre med student, so she know alittle more than the average girl.

Hi to all

I just dropped in searching for news about Suporn and came across this thread. It made me join this forum so I am going to be honest - from my perspective.

I am 55, from the UK and now 3 months two weeks post op and yes Dr Suporn was my surgeon. I am so glad I went to him and have nothing but praise.

I am not going to quote others here, if you have read the thread then you will see who I am answering.

The aftercare is first class and I doubt you will get this anywhere else as is his lifetime guarantee for any revision both cosmetic and surgical to be carried out free of charge. You just have to get there.

His technique is very invasive but the result, in my opinion is well worth it. Healing is slower but then we are all individual and will heal at different rates. We are all told not to compare to each other as it is unproductive.


My immediate depth in the hospital was 7 1/2 inches and I still retain 7 inches now and for those in the know I am using the large 34mm diameter dilator. I dilate twice a day for around 20 minutes so it does not take over my life! Yes I know I am lucky , I also have a friend who is 4 days less post op than me by Dr Suporn and she still takes  over 1 hour and needs to do it three times a day. She is still using the 32mm dilator. She is also nearly 10 years younger than me and was probably a lot fitter - not that I am unfit I just dont exercise.

So dont compare each other we are all different. However that said I have good results which look as natural as anyone who has been hit by a baseball bat for a number of hours. It is swollen and we are advised to wait 12 months for full recovery. It is not a quick fix it requires patience. I can see what I am heading for and I think a natural result. Now at 3 months it is fine and I am now into wearing jeans again. I have no overt tierdness I can do everything now that I did pre-op just take more care. No I am not into horse riding, a step too far I think!

I did my research before making my descision but I did not do a lot, I knew where I wanted to go and I am very happy with the result now and what it will become. yes I was sensate as I left hospital and remain so now. I have no partner so cant give you another opinion. I will bide my time on that one.

I also have to say after care service is excellent. Any queries by email are answered with 24-48 hours, we are not left to stew. It is best to send pictures with queries it helps a lot. The hardest thing is to find someone to take them for you! I am glad I have another TS friend in the same situation who helps. We meet monthly just to take progress shots. Well worth it and it allows us to see just how well we are healing, although at different rates.

You do your research and take your pick from what is available. I am sure every surgeon has a result which is less than satisfactory at times - do you expect them to shout that from the roof tops, no of course not. It is how it is dealt with afterwards that counts. Remember, and I will keep saying this, we are all different and will recover at different rates and with different results. There is no absolute promise to this surgery so be realistic.

My opinion is that I chose the best in the world and I will not change that. I suspect any other girl will say the same about their surgeon of choice so go with the flow, your instinct and most of all have absolute trust in your choice. I did and I am very happy.

Kirstie

Sorry no pic I dont know how. however I am not hiding I am proud to be transsexual and now the woman I always knew I was.

xx

For what its worth:

Interestinmg GG vag site

http://www.myvag.net/ (http://www.myvag.net/)

More info on average depth of genitic females as well.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLD_enUS309US309&q=average+vaginal+depth (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLD_enUS309US309&q=average+vaginal+depth)

   I too went to Dr Supron, I am 100% satisfied with the results almost 2 years on. Still am alittle over 7 inches which was remarkable as I was small, soo much soo that beforehand he made it adamant that I only expected 5 or so inches so as not to be disappointed. There was some necrosis on the inner right labia however I cannot tell if it effected me in any way, getting the small surgery to remove it was annoying because it was like going back 4 days of healing progress  :P

  Clitoris was hypersensitive, almost like whacking your funny bone 1000 fold for the first few weeks, but now is a pleasure button. My first orgasm was approx 3 months post op and took very little effort to maintain. What really gets me was how he did the clitoris/frenium/hood, my labia are really nice too and make my opening convincing aswell. It really is uncanny how dead on it is :o

  Staff and care were wonderful, and from what I hear is if you have the time and money for a plane ride getting revision work is easy as giving warning and showing up. Would love to see the pictures of the bad result, but that seems no where to be found. If there's any truth to it being his will just make me more grateful for what I have as a result of his work.

I'm am sorry that not all doctors and results are as good as mine, I've not seen any other work in person but based on the photos and feedback is what made me decide. The very fact that my results (on my biased little opinion) are greater than the very photos that convinced me on his website, makes me confident to recommend him to anyone thinking about SRS.

  Yea I found it rather amusing that my personal results look far more impressive than what's on his site. He needs to update those or something. Anyway, as you mentioned above in your post, I do really think there is no better doctor for the hood and frenulum over the clit, as well as the labia. The top part of Dr. Suporn's vagina is spot on, while the bottom is variable. For me my bottom part was very well done, but I've seen a few where a small revision could be made. Bottom line is, I would do surgery over again with Dr. Suporn in a blink of an eye.

I work in a Pathology lab, so the actual op was neither here nor there, I just wish the resolution on the picture had been better so I could see more detail of the actual procedure.

Re Circumcision with Suporn patients


I emailed the office of Suporn to find out what the story was on circumcision and if that disqualified anyone.
Here is the answer to clear it up :


RE Circumcision / DR Suporn policy


" The rumour you have heard has no basis. About 40% of Dr Suporn's patients are circumcised prior to surgery. Circumcision makes no difference to the outcome, and very little difference to the method Dr Suporn will use on the day. Only if the circumcision has been badly done with hard scarring, accompanied by a small penis would circumcision make any difference - and even then only to the degree of difficulty Dr Suporn will have in achieving an excellent result. In any event, such an unusual circumstance would - as far as the patient is concerned - have little or no effect.


Being circumcised does not affect sensitivity at all. The clitoris and secondary sensate area is created from the glans penis tissue, which is present whether the pre-operative condition is circumcised or not.


Similarly, prior orchiectomy (castration) similarly has little effect on the outcome, unless it has been done with bilateral scarring on the scrotal sac, is accompanied by a very small circumcised penis, and the scrotal sac has atrophied or hardened."


Hope that helps !

good to hear re Orchi!

More Dr Suporn Info

--------------------------------
        Dear Sophie
                I was reading more info wanted to clarify a few items

       Does Dr Suporn criteria say :

1.        Can not have been circumcised;

2.         Can not had genital electrolysis other than the perineum

3.        Can not been taking antiandrogens/ hormones for more than a few years


        Do any of these exclude anyone from having surgery with DR  Suporn?

        Thanks you so much

         Patience

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Dear Patience

Our web site does not say any of those things, so I think you must have misunderstood. It does not say those things CANNOT be accepted. What it says is that the BEST results are obtained if one has not had those done. That is not to say that excellent results will not be achieved with all of them.

Circumcision
About 40% of Dr Suporn's patients are circumcised prior to surgery. Circumcision makes no difference to the outcome, and very little difference to the method Dr Suporn will use on the day. Only if the circumcision has been badly done with hard scarring, accompanied by a small penis would circumcision make any difference - and even then only to the degree of difficulty Dr Suporn will have in achieving an excellent result. In any event, such an unusual circumstance would - as far as the patient is concerned - have little or no effect.
Being circumcised does not affect sensitivity at all. The clitoris and secondary sensate area is created from the glans penis tissue, which is present whether the pre-operative condition is circumcised or not.
Similarly, prior orchiectomy (castration) similarly has little effect on the outcome, unless it has been done with bilateral scarring on the scrotal sac, is accompanied by a very small circumcised penis, and the scrotal sac has atrophied or hardened.
A "small penis" would be considered to be one smaller than about one to 1-1/2 inch flaccid. Anything larger than that can be considered "normal" in terms of the technique Dr Suporn will employ, and the results he will achieve. Some grafting might be necessary to supplement in certain cases
With Dr Suporn's technique a vaginal depth of 6 inches is virtually guaranteed irrespective of penis size. The average depth over the past 2 years for SRS patients has been in the region of 7 inches (17 cm).

Genital Electrolysis
Requirement with Penile Inversion (NOT Dr Suporn's technique)
With the alternative penile inversion technique (which Dr Suporn does NOT use and stopped using 10 years ago) prior permanent depilation (rarely achieved) is essential to stop hair growth within the depths of the vagina, and regular internal depilation with hair removing cream is often necessary to remove the "hair ball" that can gather at the deepest parts of the vagina causing discomfort, and harbouring germs and bacteria - and consequent odour.
The "standard" penile inversion technique requires genital electrolysis (or similarly "permanent" depilation method) because the penis is literally inverted, and the outer penile skin - which bears hair - becomes the vaginal lining. The only way to remove that hair is by electrolysis or similar permanent hair removal technique prior to surgery. Genital electrolysis (or any other form of "permanent" depilation such as Laser or IPL) is very costly, and painful. More importantly, irrespective of the skill of the electrologist or machine operator it causes some internal scarring around the follicular bulb (it is exactly the same as cauterizing). In order to create the most perfect result possible it is important to avoid such scars. They damage the tissues used to form the vulva - and in particular the vaginal lining - and can cause hardening of the skin tissues, which should remain as soft and pliable as possible. Hence electrolysis - particularly of scrotal skin - is discouraged.

Dr Suporn's Technique
With Dr Suporn's technique, a scrotal skin graft is used to line the vagina. Prior to insertion of the skin graft, the entire hair bearing layer of skin is excised, leaving it impossible for hair to grow within the vagina, at a depth greater than about one half inch.

Vaginal Hair Growth
Postoperative incidence of hair in the vagina is extremely rare for Dr Suporn's SRS patients. Out of about 200 SRS patients each year, 3 or 4 report minor growth of hair. On the very rare occasions it occurs, it is limited to a few hairs only near the vaginal orifice, and never grows deeper than about a half inch (one centimetre). Growth cannot extend beyond that depth. This is the region at which the vaginal skin graft is joined to skin from the perineum. On the few patients where growth has occurred, the number of hairs that occur is usually no more than about 20 - no different than is experienced by a number of genetic women - and the treatment is the same. These are easiest removed postoperatively by plucking or - if one wished to have them permanently removed - they can be depilated by electrolysis if preferred.
If one wishes totally to avoid the minor risk of any hair growth, you can optionally depilate preoperatively a selected area of the perineum about 4cm x 2 cm (2 inches x 1 inch) as depicted on this sketch: (* Sorry I could not copy the sketch)

The choice of whether to depilate this small area is entirely left to the patient, and the costs and inconvenience of doing so need to be balanced against the likelihood of a few stray hairs in the immediate vaginal opening becoming a nuisance.

I hope that helps, but please do not hesitate to ask at any time if you need any further information or guidance.

Sophie

hey all hope all is well....can someone guide me on how i can see the pics ????

Try here, Suigeniris .... http://etransgender.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=182 (http://etransgender.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=182)

I think they were removed.
There are still a lot of photos on the TS roadmap site. Check that out maybe . If you can not find it, let us know and someone can post som Doctrors photos.
Good luck !
patience

this was very informative and i really appreciate your honesty ..thank you

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Post Merge: July 20, 2010, 01:31:20 AM

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@ JANET THANX MS LADY :")))

There is a lot of information on Anne Lawrence's Transsexual Women's Resources site and also at Annie Richard's Second Type Woman.

Caroline

Im a Suporn girl and 22 days post op and cant say enough to praise this man and the staff of the clinic.
The reason I chose him for my GRS as after a lot of research for a surgeon for FFS i decided on Dr Suporn for my FFS. Of the girls here during my recovery I heard a great deal of satisfaction about their GRS. This is the reason I chose him.

Im extremely happy with the results from the first day of seeing my new vagina. There was of course some yucky bits that didnt look nice at all but the staff and doctor were very reasurring that all was fine.

Mine wasnt a perfect recovery period. I had some necrosis removed and some restitching of some seperation (that I put down to myself walking to much) and am due to have some more stitching done to remove a bit more seperation next week.

I am  amazed at how real the neo vagina looks even at this stage of recovery. I have good sensation and am maintaining a decent depth of 7 inches. The dilating regime is going to be a bit frustrating but its something that will in the end run just become routine.

Im glad that I made the decision to see Dr Suporn. Its not my place to say which surgeon is better than the other I just want to let you know that even at this early stage Im extremely happy with my results and how things are progressing.

Krissy

I am 2 months post op and had my surgery with Dr Suporn. He has done and amazing job and that is only at the 2 month mark and im already more than impressed, mind you i have been one of the lucky ones frm day 1...healed very quickly. The dialation process is a drag but worth it!

Hiya Raven

We must have been there at the same time my surgery was 8th July

Quote from: winter88 on October 27, 2011, 06:06:59 PM

LAURA I REMEMBER YOU EMAILED ME AND TOLD ME THAT YOUR ORGASMS ARE *APPALINIGLY LOW* VERY TYPICAL OF BRASSARD GIRLS, AS IVE MET 3 BRASSARD GIRLS AND NONE OF THEM ORGASM EITHER, AS FAR AS APPEARANCE GOES BRASSARD HAS SENT ME SOME OF HIS WORK IN PICTURES AND THEY LOOK PRETTY UGLY, EVERY SURGEON HAS DONE SOME UGLY WORK INCLUDING SUPORN AND BRASSARD, REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU GO TO YOU WILL NEED A TOUCH UP ON APPEARANCE, BUT ATLEAST WITH SUPORN YOU WILL HAVE A FUNCTIONING ORGASMIC VAGINA WITH TONS OF DEPTH UNLIKE BRASSARD THAT WILL LEAVE YOU WITH WEAK ORGASMS ;>  APPEARANCE CAN ALWAYS BE FIXED, BUT ORGASM CAPABILITY? I THINK NOT,

I've seen Laura's results and mine are almost identical to hers and I went to Brassard too.  I'm not saying that all Brassard results are cosmetically similar but mine and hers are--no point, I just find it funny.

As for Brassard girls and orgasm?  I have complete sensation and I have excellent orgasm capability.  The irony is, is that I just don't really care about it.  I think that the ability to orgasm is also dependent on the individual and how that individual heals and her ability to orgasm prior--but this is an old argument.

Quote from: Chrissyts41 on July 06, 2007, 12:13:31 AM
Good luck to you Anonymouse and more power to you.   :D
I think it is true that every surgeon has poor results at times including the heavily favored N. Am. surgeons apparent on this thread, but I think it's pretty sad when girls use a few bad examples to beat up a surgeon whose dedicated his career to helping T's.  There are many, many more girls who quite obviously have been thrilled w/ Dr. Suporn and his staff.  I hope you are among them when you wake up, hon.
As for myself, just to be on the up and up, I'm still pre-op, but it's come down to Bowers or Suporn.  I have two friends, one going to each very soon, and I think it's pretty shabby the way girls talk down accomplished surgeons on this site sometimes.  It especially annoys me that the assumption is made that girls who go to Thailand have no money and/or no sense.  Get off it, girls.  :police:
I like Meltzer ALOT as a person and know his results are good, but nobody's cutting me twice, I don't care how many limosines they send to pick me up at the hotel.
Chrissy

Hey girl. i was wondering who you ended up choosing as your srs surgeon and what your friend that went to suporn and other that went to bowers  if they are happy? thanks. ttyl winter88

Thanks for strengthening me not wanting srs.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 31, 2011, 11:50:47 PM
Thanks for strengthening me not wanting srs.

YOU CAN DO WATEVER YOU WANT. DONT USE ME AS AN EXCUSE BEACUSE YOU LIKE HAVING A PENIS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING THE WAY YOU ARE, BUT YOU NEED TO BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, TRUE STRAIGHT MEN WILL NEVER GO FOR SOMEONE LIKE US, YOU CAN BLAB ABOUT HOW HOTT YOU ARE IT DOES NOT MATTER. IM HOTT MYSELF BEEN TOLD BY TRUCK LOADS OF MEN THAT IM THE PRETTIEST GIRL THEYVE EVER SEEN. AND GUESS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I TELL THEM I HAVE A PENIS" ALL U HEAR IS BYE NO THANKS SEE YA LATER. SORRY DUDE I AINT COOL WIT DAT, LATER FREAK ETC ETC, AND JUST  A MINUTE AGO THEY WERE PRACTICALLY ASKING ME TO MARRY THEM.

WHAT U HAVE BETWEEN YOUR LEGS DOES MATTER, YOU CAN DENY IT ALL U WANT BUT U ARE DOING YOURSELF NO JUSTICE,

IM NOT SAYING THERE IS NO MEN THAT WILL NOT ACCEPT U AS A CHICK WITH A D***. WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE GUYS YOU COME ACROSS THAT ARE INTO CHICKS WITH D**** WILL BE MEN SEEKING A ONE NIGHT STAND, A FETISH. THESE GUYS WILL NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR DATE YOU, OR INTRODUCE YOU TO THEIR FRIENDS OR FAMILY. 99% OF THE TIME.

OF COURSE THERES THEY OCASSIONAL GUY THAT WILL ACCEPT U BUT TRUST ME IT DOES NOT LAST VERY LONG BEFORE HE CHEATS ON U WITH A CIS GIRL. BEACUSE THE TRUTH IS THEY LIKE PUSSY, AND U DONT HAVE ONE. THIS IS WERE YOUR GAME ENDS. SORRY I KNOW THATS NOT WHAT U WANNA HEAR BUT MAY THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE!!!

AND THE GUYS THAT DO ACCEPT U ARE *>-bleeped-< >-bleeped-<S* THESE ARE GAY MEN IN THE CLOSET THAT DONT WANNA ADMIT THAT THEY ARE GAY SO THEY DATE TRANS GIRLS TO FEEL AS IF ITS MORE OKAY BEACUSE IT LOOK LIKE A GIRL, THESE GUYS HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES, THEY HAVE NOT COME TO TERMS WITH THEIR HOMOSEXUALITY IF AND WHEN U WANT A SEX CHANGE U WILL HEAR THE DUST FROM THEIR FEET AS THEY RUN FROM U.

EVERY GUY THATS INTO TRANSEXUALS THAT IVE TOLD I WANTED A SEX CHANGE THEY ALWAYS RUN WHICH PROVES TO ME THAT TO THEM ITS ALLLLL ABOUT THE DICK. WHICH IS WAY TO GAY FOR ME. I WANT A REAL MAN NOT SOME GUY THATS GOT A SICK FETISH FOR COCK.

IF THESE GUYS ARE YOUR TYPE OF GUY THEN I RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT GET SRS

BUT IF YOU TRULY WANT A STR8 GUY THATS GONNA TREAT U LIKE A WOMAN AND NOT SOME GAY GUY WITH  A COCK. TRUST ME U WONT GET THAT TREATMENT FROM A >-bleeped-< >-bleeped-<, THOSE GUYS ARE SUPER GAY AND WILL MAKE U FEEL LIKE A DUDE IN THE LONG RUN BEACUSE YOUR MALE ANATOMY IS ALL THEY SEEM TO CARE ABOUT,

AND YES. I STILL PLAN ON GETTING SRS.

Maybe a quick point on appearance...?

There is ONLY so much a surgeon can do during the first op. This is practically universal and independent on the protocol used! (My 1st took about 7-8 hours)

If they try to make your inner lips too narrow i.e. no 'fat lips' there is a more then average chance that blood-supply will cause an issue i.e. fail.
This even can be the case if they ARE careful.
Just that happened to one woman at PIH during my stay, then the jig was up. Additional skin graft must be found (inner thigh, or tummy) to reconstruct/replace the 'dead' labia minora and with good luck it will 'take'.

It is for that reason that a 2nd 'prettyfication' is often asked for. In fact, Dr. Sanguan asked me, like what seemed to be a standard question: "do I see you again in 6 month (for final labia-plasty)?"

I mention this to give some more perspective. Right now look better then some ggs I have seen, but also not quite the model vj to appear in a good porn movie, if you get the gist :-)

Thank you,
Axelle

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 31, 2011, 11:50:47 PM
Thanks for strengthening me not wanting srs.

SRS DOES NOT FIX ALL YOUR PROBLEMS, ITS NOT A MAGIC WAND. BUT ITS PART OF BEING A WOMAN,

WHY ARE U TALKING ON YOUR POST ABOUT GETTING BOOBS AND DOING YOUR FACE? TOO LOOK LIKE A WOMAN DUH.

SO WHY STOP THERE AND KEEP THE PENIS? BEACUSE YOU ARE SEXUALLY A HOMOSEXUAL. THATS WHY, AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A HOMOSEXUAL, BUT YOU NEED TO REALIZE THAT THE GUYS YOUR TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT HOMOSEXUAL, THEY WANT VAGINA,. DO YOU UNDERSTAND OR DO I NEED TO WRITE IT IN CHINESE LANGUAGE LOL. WHAT IS NOT SINKING IN? LOL. YOUR HONESTLY A WASTE OF TIME. YOUR LIKE A KID THAT CLOSES HER EARS AND STOMPS AND SAYS NO NO I DONT WANNA HEAR THE TRUTH, THEY HAVE TO ACCPET ME BEACUSE I WANT THEM TOO. THEY MUST LIKE ME WITH A COCK BEACUSE I SAY SO. LOL. GOOD LUCK GIRL!

PS. WHY DO U KEEP FOLLOWING ME AND STALKING ME ON THESE BLOGS? BEACUSE U KNOW IM RIGHT?

DO WATEVR U WANT, IM OVER IT.

A reminder: vehemently applying personal standards to other people who may not share them can be considered abusive.  Please remember that one size does not fit all, that there's no such thing as a standard version of anything human and that tolerance of everyone's point of view is a requirement in this place.

You may disagree but try not to do it in a disagreeable manner.

Quote from: Axélle on November 01, 2011, 08:03:23 AM
Maybe a quick point on appearance...?

There is ONLY so much a surgeon can do during the first op. This is practically universal and independent on the protocol used! (My 1st took about 7-8 hours)

If they try to make your inner lips too narrow i.e. no 'fat lips' there is a more then average chance that blood-supply will cause an issue i.e. fail.
This even can be the case if they ARE careful.
Just that happened to one woman at PIH during my stay, then the jig was up. Additional skin graft must be found (inner thigh, or tummy) to reconstruct/replace the 'dead' labia minora and with good luck it will 'take'.

It is for that reason that a 2nd 'prettyfication' is often asked for. In fact, Dr. Sanguan asked me, like what seemed to be a standard question: "do I see you again in 6 month (for final labia-plasty)?"

I mention this to give some more perspective. Right now look better then some ggs I have seen, but also not quite the model vj to appear in a good porn movie, if you get the gist :-)

Thank you,
Axelle

HEY SWEETY.  THATS EXACTLY  WHY IM NOT GOING TO MELTZER , HE DOES A 2 STEP WHICH CUTS MORE NERVES AND LEAVES U WITH LOW SENSATION. THERES 3 GIRLS ON HERE THAT HAVE GONE TO METLZER AND DO NOT ORGASM AND I KNOW OF ANOTHER ONE THAT DID IT THSI YEAR AND SHE DOES NOT EITHER. I WOULDNT GO TO HIM IF IT WAS FREE LOL.

SUPORN GUARANTEES 100% THAT U WILL BE ORGASMIC WHICH IS WHY I CHOSE HIM. IVE NEVER MET A SUPORN GIRL THAT DOES NOT ORGASM, NEVER! I EVEN HAVE A FRIEND THAT DID NOT ORGASM AS A GUY AND NOW AS A GIRL SHE DOES, SHE WENT TO SUPORN.

AS FAR AS LOOK GO THERE IS NO SURGEON OUT THERE THAT MAKES A PRETTY PUSSY EVERY SINGLE TIME. IVE SEEN GOOD AND BAD FROM EVERY SURGEON. BUT WITH LOOKS U CAN ALWAYS HAVE A VAGINAL REJUVUNATION.

Quote from: winter88 on November 01, 2011, 07:38:01 AMEVERY GUY THATS INTO TRANSEXUALS THAT IVE TOLD I WANTED A SEX CHANGE THEY ALWAYS RUN WHICH PROVES TO ME THAT TO THEM ITS ALLLLL ABOUT THE DICK. WHICH IS WAY TO GAY FOR ME. I WANT A REAL MAN NOT SOME GUY THATS GOT A SICK FETISH FOR COCK.

If a "guy" wants a "sex change" then doesn't that mean said person is likely one of us, i.e. not a guy.... so if she likes penises then how is that gay? And why do you post that a "fetish" for the male member is "sick" when in a later post you say that there's nothing wrong with that at all?

I hear what you say dear, just take note that the Suporn protocol is different from e.g. Dr. Sanguan's.
Dr. Sanguan has a short 2nd op (~ 2hrs) also, but its for 'wall papering' inside the vj-channel with saved scrotal skin that was cleaned of all hair follicles. I saw them actually doing it in the op. theatre.
They, a male and a female nurse, seemed to enjoy that work, they looked very contented. It's finicky work. :-)

Dr. Suporn will (as I understand it) perforate the scrotal skin like say - stretch metal, and then place it into the created vj-channel first time.
It now can be stretched, but also will create many, many small open incisions that need to heal inside --- given one's healing performance this internal multiple scar tissue may shrink leaving quite some less depths as compared to immediately post-op.
It will also be painful to prevent this from happening as all inside the vj-channel be very sensate like the original scrotal skin was!

I hope this makes sense, and I hope it was explained correctly to me in PIH.
I also have sensation all the way down the vj-channel but more similar to a bio-vj, which will be less sensate as deeper one goes.

I hope this give you more perspective.
Thanks,
Axelle

* If a "guy" wants a "sex change" ...*

Seems you misread that sentence, it does nowhere say that in the quote at all.

Axelle

winter....caps lock my friend.

Press that key that says "CAPS LOCK"

Quote from: winter88 on November 01, 2011, 07:38:01 AM

YOU CAN DO WATEVER YOU WANT. DONT USE ME AS AN EXCUSE BEACUSE YOU LIKE HAVING A PENIS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING THE WAY YOU ARE, BUT YOU NEED TO BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, TRUE STRAIGHT MEN WILL NEVER GO FOR SOMEONE LIKE US, YOU CAN BLAB ABOUT HOW HOTT YOU ARE IT DOES NOT MATTER. IM HOTT MYSELF BEEN TOLD BY TRUCK LOADS OF MEN THAT IM THE PRETTIEST GIRL THEYVE EVER SEEN. AND GUESS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I TELL THEM I HAVE A PENIS" ALL U HEAR IS BYE NO THANKS SEE YA LATER. SORRY DUDE I AINT COOL WIT DAT, LATER FREAK ETC ETC, AND JUST  A MINUTE AGO THEY WERE PRACTICALLY ASKING ME TO MARRY THEM.

WHAT U HAVE BETWEEN YOUR LEGS DOES MATTER, YOU CAN DENY IT ALL U WANT BUT U ARE DOING YOURSELF NO JUSTICE,

IM NOT SAYING THERE IS NO MEN THAT WILL NOT ACCEPT U AS A CHICK WITH A D***. WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE GUYS YOU COME ACROSS THAT ARE INTO CHICKS WITH D**** WILL BE MEN SEEKING A ONE NIGHT STAND, A FETISH. THESE GUYS WILL NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR DATE YOU, OR INTRODUCE YOU TO THEIR FRIENDS OR FAMILY. 99% OF THE TIME.

OF COURSE THERES THEY OCASSIONAL GUY THAT WILL ACCEPT U BUT TRUST ME IT DOES NOT LAST VERY LONG BEFORE HE CHEATS ON U WITH A CIS GIRL. BEACUSE THE TRUTH IS THEY LIKE PUSSY, AND U DONT HAVE ONE. THIS IS WERE YOUR GAME ENDS. SORRY I KNOW THATS NOT WHAT U WANNA HEAR BUT MAY THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE!!!

AND THE GUYS THAT DO ACCEPT U ARE *>-bleeped-< >-bleeped-<S* THESE ARE GAY MEN IN THE CLOSET THAT DONT WANNA ADMIT THAT THEY ARE GAY SO THEY DATE TRANS GIRLS TO FEEL AS IF ITS MORE OKAY BEACUSE IT LOOK LIKE A GIRL, THESE GUYS HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES, THEY HAVE NOT COME TO TERMS WITH THEIR HOMOSEXUALITY IF AND WHEN U WANT A SEX CHANGE U WILL HEAR THE DUST FROM THEIR FEET AS THEY RUN FROM U.

EVERY GUY THATS INTO TRANSEXUALS THAT IVE TOLD I WANTED A SEX CHANGE THEY ALWAYS RUN WHICH PROVES TO ME THAT TO THEM ITS ALLLLL ABOUT THE DICK. WHICH IS WAY TO GAY FOR ME. I WANT A REAL MAN NOT SOME GUY THATS GOT A SICK FETISH FOR COCK.

IF THESE GUYS ARE YOUR TYPE OF GUY THEN I RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT GET SRS

BUT IF YOU TRULY WANT A STR8 GUY THATS GONNA TREAT U LIKE A WOMAN AND NOT SOME GAY GUY WITH  A COCK. TRUST ME U WONT GET THAT TREATMENT FROM A >-bleeped-< >-bleeped-<, THOSE GUYS ARE SUPER GAY AND WILL MAKE U FEEL LIKE A DUDE IN THE LONG RUN BEACUSE YOUR MALE ANATOMY IS ALL THEY SEEM TO CARE ABOUT,

AND YES. I STILL PLAN ON GETTING SRS.

Hey, it's you again.

Leave me alone.

Quote from: winter88 on November 01, 2011, 08:15:22 AM
SRS DOES NOT FIX ALL YOUR PROBLEMS, ITS NOT A MAGIC WAND. BUT ITS PART OF BEING A WOMAN,

WHY ARE U TALKING ON YOUR POST ABOUT GETTING BOOBS AND DOING YOUR FACE? TOO LOOK LIKE A WOMAN DUH.

SO WHY STOP THERE AND KEEP THE PENIS? BEACUSE YOU ARE SEXUALLY A HOMOSEXUAL. THATS WHY, AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A HOMOSEXUAL, BUT YOU NEED TO REALIZE THAT THE GUYS YOUR TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT HOMOSEXUAL, THEY WANT VAGINA,. DO YOU UNDERSTAND OR DO I NEED TO WRITE IT IN CHINESE LANGUAGE LOL. WHAT IS NOT SINKING IN? LOL. YOUR HONESTLY A WASTE OF TIME. YOUR LIKE A KID THAT CLOSES HER EARS AND STOMPS AND SAYS NO NO I DONT WANNA HEAR THE TRUTH, THEY HAVE TO ACCPET ME BEACUSE I WANT THEM TOO. THEY MUST LIKE ME WITH A COCK BEACUSE I SAY SO. LOL. GOOD LUCK GIRL!

PS. WHY DO U KEEP FOLLOWING ME AND STALKING ME ON THESE BLOGS? BEACUSE U KNOW IM RIGHT?

DO WATEVR U WANT, IM OVER IT.

Hey, why don't you leave the non ops alone?

Quote from: Axélle on November 01, 2011, 10:07:32 AMDr. Suporn will (as I understand it) perforate the scrotal skin like say - stretch metal, and then place it into the created vj-channel first time.
It now can be stretched, but also will create many, many small open incisions that need to heal inside --- given one's healing performance this internal multiple scar tissue may shrink leaving quite some less depths as compared to immediately post-op.
It will also be painful to prevent this from happening as all inside the vj-channel be very sensate like the original scrotal skin was!

I hope this makes sense, and I hope it was explained correctly to me in PIH.
I also have sensation all the way down the vj-channel but more similar to a bio-vj, which will be less sensate as deeper one goes.

I went to Dr Suporn and I'm also less sensate deeper in. The original sensation of the scrotal tissue is gone since it was completely removed and then reattached; the sensation that's there now is of the tissues underneath it.

Quote from: Axélle on November 01, 2011, 10:10:10 AM
* If a "guy" wants a "sex change" ...*

Seems you misread that sentence, it does nowhere say that in the quote at all.

Axelle

You're right, I did misread that.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 01, 2011, 12:33:16 PM
Hey, why don't you leave the non ops alone?

HEY READ THE FIRST MESSAGE ON HERE OF YOURS, YOU CAME AFTER ME FIRST, TALKING TO ME PERSONALLY. DONT RESPOND TO MY COMMENTS ITS THAT SIMPLE.

How about if both of you stop responding "personally".  Respond to the topic not each other.