Hi. My husband (he is still going by he) came out to me as MtF 18 years ago, went back in the closet, and in December he came out to me as being ready for the first steps of whatever his transition is going to be. It was rough at first, both when he came out to me and his new announcement, but over the past months we've learned a lot about how to navigate our new relationship. In the midst of the whole thing we figured out I'm also trans; bi-gender M/F. Which takes nothing away from the issues of our marriage and my mostly cis type reaction to his news. I'm still wrapping my head around my gender issues - which play into some complications for our own relationship, but I won't include those here. Only the point of view and experiences I see over and over among SOs, many of which match my own experiences and feelings to a T.
I have been fortunate enough that my husband has the better habits as far as what we need to do to keep our marriage together, and is also incredibly supportive of my own gender issues.
I am a member of some very private groups for wives of MtF transgender individuals, and between our own experiences and the many, many women whom I have talked to in these "safe places" I have learned a lot about how trans marriages work, and what blows them up. I hear the happy stories of those whose marriage is better today than before transition, and the stories of destroyed relationships, torn apart families, and the ugliest stories of all - suicide of the cis partner.
One of the shocking things I've learned is the high rate of suicide among wives of transwomen. Yes, because of their partners' transitions! In one group our moderator recently died by her own hand when she couldn't handle it anymore. In the wake of her death, four other members admitted they had attempted suicide in the past also because of their spouse's transition. So when you insist that you have to do this for your mental health, remember, you're blowing up her life and she has mental health to maintain too. Don't assume you're the only one in severe and serious mental pain! For many wives, especially in long marriages, their entire life and identity is wrapped up in their marriage. If they have no clue there's a problem in their marriage before the big annoucement it is quite literally the end of their world, especially if they're not mentally equipped to handle marriage to a transwoman.
If your wife happens to be bisexual and/or pansexual and is open minded about sex and relationships, you probably have it made. For some women it doesn't matter. You are you. If you're one of these lucky individuals, then you have a much better chance of making it work than the average.
If your wife is straight and traditional, even if she's somewhat open-minded, this may take a LOT of work from both of you to really keep a good marriage.
*Talk to your wife as early as possible. Putting off the inevitable isn't going to help anything. It only makes the blowup bigger than it may need to be. Also be aware of the timing of when you come out to her. If she's going thorough pregnancy and her own hormone issues, bad idea. Or freshly given birth/breastfeeding. More hormones. Don't do it around a holiday (particularly Valentine's Day, her birthday or your anniversary!), or a special day for her. If her grandma is dying, just, no. Use common sense.
*Don't expect her to take it well. Expect a few days to a week or longer while the news settles in and the shock wears off. Don't assume her first week's reaction is her permanent reaction. I was on divorce websites within hours, convinced my marriage and my life were over. I cried a lot. And I had 18 years warning! I knew he was trans, I knew it never goes away. Yet it was still like he had set off dynamite in my life. She may cry, for days. She may scream and rail at the world. She may simply go into shutdown mode. She WILL need time to get past the initial shock. And it may change from one thing to another before it's over.
*Get both of you into therapy immediately. Like, if you can pre-schedule it for a week after you come out, do it. Take her to your own gender therapist for her own personal counseling sessions and and couples counseling together. Having two messages - one from your therapist and one from hers - sometimes has you working at cross purposes. If your gender therapist doesn't take couples or the cis spouse, make absolutely certain the therapist she goes to is a therapist who is at least strongly familiar with gender issues and is in at least some contact with your gender therapist, so they can make sure you're on the same page. Regular therapists usually don't understand much about the trans world and challenges, and sometimes end up giving poor advice, working counter to what you both need in order to come together.
*Offer to take her with you to your medical appointments. Don't force her, but do encourage her. Not just to drive, but to ask her own questions, make suggestions, and hear it all for herself. To hold your hand. For you to hold her hand. If you plan to make your marriage work, include her in the process as much as possible. You are not going through this alone. You are going through this as a COUPLE.
*If you can safely (mentally) do it, slow your transition down so she can come to terms with each step. Don't stop it for her, but give her adjustment time. Ask she if she's ready for X. Talk her through it, both your emotional and mental need for it, and the actual medical stuff when applicable. As I said before, take her with you to talk to the doctor so she completely understands. Have your therapist explain if necessary. Are there any other options for your treatment that would take care of the problem? Consider them. I'm not saying she has veto power, but keep her in the loop for medical decisions. She's not only your partner in life, she's the one who will be physically caring for you while you recover from surgery and can't walk for several days. She's the one who will be dealing with a 13-year-old hormonal girl in a grown male body. It's not a walk in the park.
*Don't forget she's still a woman with a woman's needs. You may be feeling the need to be treated like a woman, but, SO DOES SHE. Don't ask her to take the role that was yours. She is not going to be comfortable with suddenly becoming the man in the relationship. Remember, she's probably a cis female. She's not going to transition to male just because you're transitioning to female! She needs flowers sometimes, and to be the submissive in bed, or the dominant, whatever you were before. She's still a lady. You may have to rework YOUR position and role in the relationship in the household, but DO NOT TRY TO TAKE HERS. Otherwise I guarantee it's going to go badly.
*Talk to her! She's not psychic. Don't expect her to know what you're thinking. Don't expect her to know what causes you pain, either mental or physical. Don't expect her to know what you prefer in sex, or what you really want to never do in bed again. Tell her. And be open to what she needs too. Ask her point blank. Don't beat around the bush or hint. Just plain ask what she's needing from you. And be ready to provide as much of it as you can. There will be times when you're strong and she's weak. And there will be times when she's strong and you're weak.
*Don't mistake honesty for an attack on you. If she can't speak her mind honestly about how she is feeling about your transitioning without you turning on her, then she's going to shut down and it's over. Will it trigger dysphoria for you? Maybe. Even likely. But listen to her. Her feelings and pain are just as real as yours. Your pain does not invalidate hers.
*If you have children, don't get so wrapped up in your transition that you forget you're also a parent. Being transgender isn't a free pass to get out of parenting and doing half the work of raising the kids.
*Don't abandon her for a newly discovered trans social life. If you have kids, get a babysitter and bring your wife with you to dinners and gatherings. If she was a part of your whole life before, she should be a part of your whole life after. Don't start going off on "trips" with another transwoman for bonding and friendship. Your wife should still be your best friend. Sure, it's okay to have trans friends with whom you can share your experiences and such, but if you didn't go off and do stuff with your friends before, doing it now will only send your wife the message that she isn't enough for you. She is inadequate. And it hurts.
*Go shopping with her! You may both find awesome outfits, cool new makeup colors and she may have some great tips on women's clothing. Make it a bonding experience together.
*Take her to a trans conference or local/regional gatherings. They almost always have sessions for spouses, where spouses can meet with others who have been through what they're going through now. Being able to talk to someone directly, face to face, to cry on each others' shoulders, is worth more than all the internet groups in the world. Also, being exposed to other trans individuals who are farther in the transition process than you are will help her get an idea of what her future may be like.
Thank you for considering my advice. It may not be right for every situation, but please, keep this in mind.
In my opinion, I cannot overstate how important this post is. There is so much insight given here. I would like to express my gratitude for you taking the time to present it. As a (married) trans person, I know how easy it is to become self absorbed with transition. It is maybe to be expected considering how long we must hide. The thing is, we have no excuse to ignore the feelings of those around us when coming out. (Obviously all bets are off when the reaction is hostile/ violent.) We should be respected for how traumatic it is for us, but we in turn should respect how traumatic it is for a spouse or child. Thank you for making this specific and practical, Cailan.
Moni
Cailan,
This is a special post with some very good advice.
I had my wife read it and she very much appreciated what you
had written. I know that I made mistakes when coming out
to my her and in the months that followed. I tended to be
secretive about my plans, my treatments, my counseling ..
part of this was shame (fortunately I'm past the embarrassment now)
and part of it was not knowing how she would react. She called
me on it several times about not communicating and things got
much better after that. It's a difficult journey but I know I must
always remember how it affects the people around me.
Kath
Good thing I didn't get married. My love life is a disaster area.
Quote from: Cailan Jade on February 17, 2017, 04:40:16 PM
Hi. My husband (he is still going by he) came out to me as MtF 18 years ago, went back in the closet, and in December he came out to me as being ready for the first steps of whatever his transition is going to be. It was rough at first, both when he came out to me and his new announcement, but over the past months we've learned a lot about how to navigate our new relationship. In the midst of the whole thing we figured out I'm also trans; bi-gender M/F. Which takes nothing away from the issues of our marriage and my mostly cis type reaction to his news. I'm still wrapping my head around my gender issues - which play into some complications for our own relationship, but I won't include those here. Only the point of view and experiences I see over and over among SOs, many of which match my own experiences and feelings to a T.
I have been fortunate enough that my husband has the better habits as far as what we need to do to keep our marriage together, and is also incredibly supportive of my own gender issues.
I am a member of some very private groups for wives of MtF transgender individuals, and between our own experiences and the many, many women whom I have talked to in these "safe places" I have learned a lot about how trans marriages work, and what blows them up. I hear the happy stories of those whose marriage is better today than before transition, and the stories of destroyed relationships, torn apart families, and the ugliest stories of all - suicide of the cis partner.
One of the shocking things I've learned is the high rate of suicide among wives of transwomen. Yes, because of their partners' transitions! In one group our moderator recently died by her own hand when she couldn't handle it anymore. In the wake of her death, four other members admitted they had attempted suicide in the past also because of their spouse's transition. So when you insist that you have to do this for your mental health, remember, you're blowing up her life and she has mental health to maintain too. Don't assume you're the only one in severe and serious mental pain! For many wives, especially in long marriages, their entire life and identity is wrapped up in their marriage. If they have no clue there's a problem in their marriage before the big annoucement it is quite literally the end of their world, especially if they're not mentally equipped to handle marriage to a transwoman.
If your wife happens to be bisexual and/or pansexual and is open minded about sex and relationships, you probably have it made. For some women it doesn't matter. You are you. If you're one of these lucky individuals, then you have a much better chance of making it work than the average.
If your wife is straight and traditional, even if she's somewhat open-minded, this may take a LOT of work from both of you to really keep a good marriage.
*Talk to your wife as early as possible. Putting off the inevitable isn't going to help anything. It only makes the blowup bigger than it may need to be. Also be aware of the timing of when you come out to her. If she's going thorough pregnancy and her own hormone issues, bad idea. Or freshly given birth/breastfeeding. More hormones. Don't do it around a holiday (particularly Valentine's Day, her birthday or your anniversary!), or a special day for her. If her grandma is dying, just, no. Use common sense.
*Don't expect her to take it well. Expect a few days to a week or longer while the news settles in and the shock wears off. Don't assume her first week's reaction is her permanent reaction. I was on divorce websites within hours, convinced my marriage and my life were over. I cried a lot. And I had 18 years warning! I knew he was trans, I knew it never goes away. Yet it was still like he had set off dynamite in my life. She may cry, for days. She may scream and rail at the world. She may simply go into shutdown mode. She WILL need time to get past the initial shock. And it may change from one thing to another before it's over.
*Get both of you into therapy immediately. Like, if you can pre-schedule it for a week after you come out, do it. Take her to your own gender therapist for her own personal counseling sessions and and couples counseling together. Having two messages - one from your therapist and one from hers - sometimes has you working at cross purposes. If your gender therapist doesn't take couples or the cis spouse, make absolutely certain the therapist she goes to is a therapist who is at least strongly familiar with gender issues and is in at least some contact with your gender therapist, so they can make sure you're on the same page. Regular therapists usually don't understand much about the trans world and challenges, and sometimes end up giving poor advice, working counter to what you both need in order to come together.
*Offer to take her with you to your medical appointments. Don't force her, but do encourage her. Not just to drive, but to ask her own questions, make suggestions, and hear it all for herself. To hold your hand. For you to hold her hand. If you plan to make your marriage work, include her in the process as much as possible. You are not going through this alone. You are going through this as a COUPLE.
*If you can safely (mentally) do it, slow your transition down so she can come to terms with each step. Don't stop it for her, but give her adjustment time. Ask she if she's ready for X. Talk her through it, both your emotional and mental need for it, and the actual medical stuff when applicable. As I said before, take her with you to talk to the doctor so she completely understands. Have your therapist explain if necessary. Are there any other options for your treatment that would take care of the problem? Consider them. I'm not saying she has veto power, but keep her in the loop for medical decisions. She's not only your partner in life, she's the one who will be physically caring for you while you recover from surgery and can't walk for several days. She's the one who will be dealing with a 13-year-old hormonal girl in a grown male body. It's not a walk in the park.
*Don't forget she's still a woman with a woman's needs. You may be feeling the need to be treated like a woman, but, SO DOES SHE. Don't ask her to take the role that was yours. She is not going to be comfortable with suddenly becoming the man in the relationship. Remember, she's probably a cis female. She's not going to transition to male just because you're transitioning to female! She needs flowers sometimes, and to be the submissive in bed, or the dominant, whatever you were before. She's still a lady. You may have to rework YOUR position and role in the relationship in the household, but DO NOT TRY TO TAKE HERS. Otherwise I guarantee it's going to go badly.
*Talk to her! She's not psychic. Don't expect her to know what you're thinking. Don't expect her to know what causes you pain, either mental or physical. Don't expect her to know what you prefer in sex, or what you really want to never do in bed again. Tell her. And be open to what she needs too. Ask her point blank. Don't beat around the bush or hint. Just plain ask what she's needing from you. And be ready to provide as much of it as you can. There will be times when you're strong and she's weak. And there will be times when she's strong and you're weak.
*Don't mistake honesty for an attack on you. If she can't speak her mind honestly about how she is feeling about your transitioning without you turning on her, then she's going to shut down and it's over. Will it trigger dysphoria for you? Maybe. Even likely. But listen to her. Her feelings and pain are just as real as yours. Your pain does not invalidate hers.
*If you have children, don't get so wrapped up in your transition that you forget you're also a parent. Being transgender isn't a free pass to get out of parenting and doing half the work of raising the kids.
*Don't abandon her for a newly discovered trans social life. If you have kids, get a babysitter and bring your wife with you to dinners and gatherings. If she was a part of your whole life before, she should be a part of your whole life after. Don't start going off on "trips" with another transwoman for bonding and friendship. Your wife should still be your best friend. Sure, it's okay to have trans friends with whom you can share your experiences and such, but if you didn't go off and do stuff with your friends before, doing it now will only send your wife the message that she isn't enough for you. She is inadequate. And it hurts.
*Go shopping with her! You may both find awesome outfits, cool new makeup colors and she may have some great tips on women's clothing. Make it a bonding experience together.
*Take her to a trans conference or local/regional gatherings. They almost always have sessions for spouses, where spouses can meet with others who have been through what they're going through now. Being able to talk to someone directly, face to face, to cry on each others' shoulders, is worth more than all the internet groups in the world. Also, being exposed to other trans individuals who are farther in the transition process than you are will help her get an idea of what her future may be like.
Thank you for considering my advice. It may not be right for every situation, but please, keep this in mind.
I so needed this about a month and a half ago, then maybe I wouldnt have dropped a bombshell 3 weeks before Valentines Day and our Anniversary.
Good advice...should be mandatory reading.
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Thank you so much for this post, Cailan! As someone married and who have just started the difficult MtF path, I really appreciate your words. I deeply love my wife and not only because we share the creation of two beautiful children, not only because of all our past history, but because she's truly my best friend, the first person I came out to, the only close person who supports me. One thing that I vividly noticed is that dialogue is key. At the very beginning of my coming out, I was very secretive about my plans, my intentions... I feared her reactions, her attitudes. And that fear, in turn, prevented me of being sure of what I had to do. "Should I just endure the growing dysphoria for the rest of my (probably short) remaining life?" "Should I transition?" "Should I just suppress by crossdressing (however aware I was that this was no longer enough)?" Millions of doubts in my head, that I didn't dare to answer because I was too afraid that the answer would hurt her. But then I took a decisive step. I reckon that this step wouldn't apply to everyone, but for me it was an important moment. At her request, I accepted to come out to my parents. I wrote a very extensive email to my parents, telling them almost everything and then, before sending it, I asked my wife to read it. She felt very much valued and empowered that I submit the letter to her before sending it... She cried a little when she read it. She told me that it was well written, honest and encouraged me to send it. Which I promptly did. That happened a few days ago. Today, without me asking, she told me that the fact that I sent that letter was determinant for her. From that moment on, she knew that I was serious about this problem and that I really needed to transition. And then she told something incredible: "I will never, ever leave you. I love you too much for that. And I now know that you still love me too... I'm almost sure that the kids will accept you as you are, because they too love you, unconditionally." I almost cried... So yes, at least in our case, honesty, communication, some degree of compromise and lots of mutual love and respect were determinant. This is just the beginning of our journey. Of our transition. I don't know how the future will be, but with patience, dialogue and plenty of respectful openmindedness, there's no fundamental reason for it not to work.
Again, thank you for your words and I wish the very best for you two!
Hugs and respect,
Sarah
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This thread should be pinned I think. It's that important. Thanks, Cailan, for posting this. I can't stress how much the advice to slow things down has helped us. -hugs
It is very good advice in many ways. It does infer a few things.
First that the relationship was good in almost every way to begin with. Some issues in a relationship will make a number of points less valid. Every situation and relationship is different.
Second while obviously written from the wife's point of view, it infers that the trans woman should continue to be less than truthful in their life to lessen the situation for the cis wife. It does in fact in many ways require the trans wife to continue filling the male role. In some situations the cis wife may not realize or have been oblivious to just how much the trans wife has sacrificed her very soul to try her best to fill the needs of the cis wife. If honesty is important then it is nessecary for both parties to be their real selves, otherwise the relationship is just being rebuilt on more lies and deception of who the parties really are.
A balance must be struck between the needs of both, with true honesty not partial honesty to make things easier for one over the other.
A most excellent post
My wife knew of my gender issues from day 1, some 40 years ago. She also has her own set of gender issues (MTF post-op nearly 30 years). Dealing with me dropping the T-Bomb a few years back has been a challenge. A challenge still. Perhaps a loosing battle as she is dealing with a failing body and in no small part my fault, no future happiness. Almost 20 years living with worsening chronic pain, a runaway guberment that thinks it knows how to be doctors, her visions of a future absolutely BTS has led to chronic depression and suicidal wishes. TBH, if she was my pet dog of 40 years the humane thing to do would be to put her down.
Quote from: josie76 on February 18, 2017, 07:00:49 AM
Second while obviously written from the wife's point of view, it infers that the trans woman should continue to be less than truthful in their life to lessen the situation for the cis wife. It does in fact in many ways require the trans wife to continue filling the male role. In some situations the cis wife may not realize or have been oblivious to just how much the trans wife has sacrificed her very soul to try her best to fill the needs of the cis wife. If honesty is important then it is nessecary for both parties to be their real selves, otherwise the relationship is just being rebuilt on more lies and deception of who the parties really are.
A balance must be struck between the needs of both, with true honesty not partial honesty to make things easier for one over the other.
I think I know what you're referring to, but I also think you're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say the trans person has to continue filling the male role. Only that the trans person needs to find a new role that fits, but not take the wife's already existing role. It doesn't have to be the male role. Just a female role in a different way than the one your wife fills hers. It's about finding a new balance that serves the needs of both partners. While you want to be treated like a woman, so does she. There are ways a woman can treat another woman like a woman. Many lesbians manage it quite nicely, and no, lesbians don't necessarily pair off in butch-femme partnerships. I have several lesbian friends who are in long-term relationships. They give each other flowers and stuff like that. Both are in the femme role, and both treat the other like the femme they are. But each still has a defined role in the relationship and they don't poach on the other's ground.
In your opinion, is there any possibility of managing to not hurt a straight, cis spouse at all while remaining a couple?
To my ears, that sounds like too tall of an order. But my wife is so sensitive, so fragile, and so reliant on me, that the idea of asking her to endure this would be abusive to her. I genuinely think that my repressing my feelings totally for the remainder of my life would be less painful than her attempting to adjust. I worry that I will never live authentically for that reason. I'm just feeling so lost and hopeless right now! Does anyone know of ways that a person has been successful in trying to soothe dysphoria without transitioning?
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Quote from: Amanda_Combs on February 18, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
In your opinion, is there any possibility of managing to not hurt a straight, cis spouse at all while remaining a couple?
To my ears, that sounds like too tall of an order. But my wife is so sensitive, so fragile, and so reliant on me, that the idea of asking her to endure this would be abusive to her. I genuinely think that my repressing my feelings totally for the remainder of my life would be less painful than her attempting to adjust. I worry that I will never live authentically for that reason. I'm just feeling so lost and hopeless right now! Does anyone know of ways that a person has been successful in trying to soothe dysphoria without transitioning?
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Hi Amanda! As I said previously on this thread, I'm just at the very beginning of transition. When I married, my wife knew about my crossdressing. I thought that it was some fetish, but in retrospective it was just a way to "soothe the dysphoria". The problem is, somewhat like sleeping pills, these strategies become less and effective over time... At the very beginning, I just wore feminine underwear, then I began with skirts, then dresses, then shoes, then I tried to modify my body with nail polish, shaving my legs, shaving my entire body... I even tried automedicating with anti-androgens and estrogens (please, don't do this!!!). It was if everything worked, just temporarily. The dysphoria always resurfaced, usually more intense. So any "soothing" will probably be just temporary... (I know that some docs prescribe low doses of estrogens to reduce the dysphoria, but even on low doses, given enough time, there will be some physical changes.)
As I saw it, the only permanent solution was transitioning (the alternative being a spiral of depression ending prematurely with suicide). I also saw my wife as someone very fragile. But she surprised me so much the last few weeks. I do not have magical solutions, but I think communication is key. Talk to her. If you're like me, she's probably your best friend and I am sure she would love to know that you value her opinion and feelings... Really. Talk to her. Do not bluntly impose your wishes. It's sometimes surprising how much you can accomplish with love and a bit of negociation. Not all couples are made to last, but in my case I would have regretted it for the rest of my life if I hadn't tried.
Finally, if possible, talk to an experienced therapist.
I wish the very best for both of you! Don't give up on happiness!
Hugs, Sarah
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Quote from: Amanda_Combs on February 18, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
In your opinion, is there any possibility of managing to not hurt a straight, cis spouse at all while remaining a couple?
To my ears, that sounds like too tall of an order. But my wife is so sensitive, so fragile, and so reliant on me, that the idea of asking her to endure this would be abusive to her. I genuinely think that my repressing my feelings totally for the remainder of my life would be less painful than her attempting to adjust. I worry that I will never live authentically for that reason. I'm just feeling so lost and hopeless right now! Does anyone know of ways that a person has been successful in trying to soothe dysphoria without transitioning?
You know your wife better than I do. If you think she's too fragile, she might be. Some people just can't handle any bumps in the road. She might surprise you, but it sounds like you know her very well. But not hurting a sensitive, fragile, straight, cis spouse at all? I seriously doubt it's possible. Staying together involves a lot of work from both partners.
This is where you need a therapist to help you figure out if there's a way to do this. I'm guessing a combination of lots of therapy for her *before* you come out, and a very slow desensitization process leading up to it might minimize the damage.
But yeah, you're in a rough spot.
Quote from: Cailan Jade on February 18, 2017, 12:43:47 PMI think I know what you're referring to, but I also think you're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say the trans person has to continue filling the male role. Only that the trans person needs to find a new role that fits, but not take the wife's already existing role. It doesn't have to be the male role. Just a female role in a different way than the one your wife fills hers.
It's about finding a new balance that serves the needs of both partners. While you want to be treated like a woman, so does she. There are ways a woman can treat another woman like a woman. Many lesbians manage it quite nicely, and no, lesbians don't necessarily pair off in butch-femme partnerships. I have several lesbian friends who are in long-term relationships. They give each other flowers and stuff like that. Both are in the femme role, and both treat the other like the femme they are. But each still has a defined role in the relationship and they don't poach on the other's ground.
This is such a difficult balance to find. I'm not sure it helps to say that one person or the other gets to "claim territory" in a relationship, especially one that was originally predicated on a hetero dynamic. If she's like, "You don't get to make dinner, that's my job," for example (not a very good one), that's denying someone else an experience that might well be essential to her own self-development. And likewise, asking for a more equitable arrangement of other roles that have gendered implications isn't unreasonable. Because if the previously established gendered pattern of a relationship continues, it can very well become a source of dysphoria, and that's not going to help in the long term.
So it depends. Giving each other flowers, for example, is a nice way of striving for that balance; each person is on the giving and receiving end of the dynamic, but the dynamic itself can be executed in unique personal ways that don't have unpleasantly gendered connotations one way or the other. So yeah, it can be done.
But in the aforementioned lesbian relationship, that's a relationship that was (hopefully) established with everyone really knowing who they were. That's usually not the case where someone comes out as differently gendered well into a marriage. At that point, I think the relationship is really beginning anew, and at some point it makes sense to me to honestly renegotiate everything. That's when it will become apparent whether the relationship can go forward or not.
Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by someone's "defined role" in a relationship?
Quote from: Sophia Sage on February 18, 2017, 03:07:19 PM
Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by someone's "defined role" in a relationship?
When I say "defined role" I mean the role she takes according to her personality. It's usually not a conscious thing. She has her ways and ideas of who she is and how she needs to live her life. I'm not referring to cultural roles or physical tasks around the house. I'm talking about the relationship roles we simply take because of who we are inside, how communication happens, stuff like that. It's fine to drop the more masculine/aggressive "male" role. I'm just saying that there are other femme roles that you can take without insisting on duplicating the areas of life where she feels the most comfort and value.
I don't think I misunderstood the idea you were trying to convey.
I think the biggest problem that a cis wife has is first and foremost understanding that the trans wife is not looking to "be treated like a woman" but is looking to be recognized as her true inner being. So in this way many instances of taking things slow will in fact be the trans wife continuing to fill the old role expected by the cis wife.
Unfortunately this is just where our experiences are from the opposite ends of the situation. To say we are looking to be treated as a woman is illustrating the ideation that we are not true women. I realize it's hard to see us as such even for a very open minded person. My wife has been incredibly open minded and supportive in our relationship during this time, but as an example when I told her I talked with the lady that facilitates the local group meetings, more than once she used the "he" word. It was not on purpose. Not a conscious statement but just my wife's knowledge that the lady is trans caused her to slip and say "he".
This is hard for everyone. My wife and I are learning and putting together the history of my own behavior and reactions over our relationship and quite honestly my entire life. It's very eye opening to see how so much of our issues have come from expectations verses reality of us as individuals. We have our troubles with this transition just like everyone here does, but in searching our past we both have begun to understand how our past interactions now make sense as we both begin to put a reference frame around those instances with me being female. Suddenly things neither of us could find sense in now makes perfect sense. Both her and my reactions to each other now make sense. She had expectations of how she thought a man would act. I only ever acted as I saw men act. In the most personal ways I did not have manly examples so my true inner self showed. To her these reactions were baffling. We both ended up with self esteem issues and feeling like we failed the other in so many ways. These experiences put into context of my female wired brain, and walla, suddenly the pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
What she expected in the past has been based on her experiences with cis men. I have finally figured out after years of thinking I was just a outcast man with this girl in my head, that I do not understand how men think or act because my brain was never male to begin with. My behavior is female as is my reactions to life's stimuli. I never matched her expectations of a man because it was impossible for me to do so. To finally see that is a relief for both of us. However early in my coming out she also wanted things to go slow. She wanted to put me back in the male role she thought I should fit in. At first she suggested that cross dressing should be enough. Then that if I felt like I wanted full surgical transition, that would be too much. So at first I lied to both myself and her saying I didn't mind keeping the things. Then I admitted wanting to remove the testicles since I was 11. She took some time to say she was ok with that. Until she read bad things about impotence ect. Finally in a much heated moment she asked if it were just for me would I go all the way. My answer was a very solid yes. Only after moments of me breaking down did she finally begin to understand me mentally, emotionally. She now mostly sees me as I truely am now. If we make it as a married couple only time will tell. We are both working on it. What I do know is only by breaking down all of the gender role barriers and exposing my real self fully coul we begin to heal in any real way.
Quote from: josie76 on February 18, 2017, 05:24:35 PM
I don't think I misunderstood the idea you were trying to convey.
I think the biggest problem that a cis wife has is first and foremost understanding that the trans wife is not looking to "be treated like a woman" but is looking to be recognized as her true inner being. So in this way many instances of taking things slow will in fact be the trans wife continuing to fill the old role expected by the cis wife.
Unfortunately this is just where our experiences are from the opposite ends of the situation. To say we are looking to be treated as a woman is illustrating the ideation that we are not true women. I realize it's hard to see us as such even for a very open minded person. My wife has been incredibly open minded and supportive in our relationship during this time, but as an example when I told her I talked with the lady that facilitates the local group meetings, more than once she used the "he" word. It was not on purpose. Not a conscious statement but just my wife's knowledge that the lady is trans caused her to slip and say "he".
This is hard for everyone. My wife and I are learning and putting together the history of my own behavior and reactions over our relationship and quite honestly my entire life. It's very eye opening to see how so much of our issues have come from expectations verses reality of us as individuals. We have our troubles with this transition just like everyone here does, but in searching our past we both have begun to understand how our past interactions now make sense as we both begin to put a reference frame around those instances with me being female. Suddenly things neither of us could find sense in now makes perfect sense. Both her and my reactions to each other now make sense. She had expectations of how she thought a man would act. I only ever acted as I saw men act. In the most personal ways I did not have manly examples so my true inner self showed. To her these reactions were baffling. We both ended up with self esteem issues and feeling like we failed the other in so many ways. These experiences put into context of my female wired brain, and walla, suddenly the pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
What she expected in the past has been based on her experiences with cis men. I have finally figured out after years of thinking I was just a outcast man with this girl in my head, that I do not understand how men think or act because my brain was never male to begin with. My behavior is female as is my reactions to life's stimuli. I never matched her expectations of a man because it was impossible for me to do so. To finally see that is a relief for both of us. However early in my coming out she also wanted things to go slow. She wanted to put me back in the male role she thought I should fit in. At first she suggested that cross dressing should be enough. Then that if I felt like I wanted full surgical transition, that would be too much. So at first I lied to both myself and her saying I didn't mind keeping the things. Then I admitted wanting to remove the testicles since I was 11. She took some time to say she was ok with that. Until she read bad things about impotence ect. Finally in a much heated moment she asked if it were just for me would I go all the way. My answer was a very solid yes. Only after moments of me breaking down did she finally begin to understand me mentally, emotionally. She now mostly sees me as I truely am now. If we make it as a married couple only time will tell. We are both working on it. What I do know is only by breaking down all of the gender role barriers and exposing my real self fully coul we begin to heal in any real way.
I have been trying to sum up my feelings on this post without being negative and I think Josie has done a marvellous job of it. I think one of the most crucial things that spouses have huge difficulty with is that we
are women MTF or Men FTM and always have been. My wife understands, accepts this, knows without a doubt I am a woman and always have been.
Liz
Never been married, but it seems reasonable for transwomen to make these allowances, especially while the partner is grieving the loss of the former identity. Ultimately you have to meet people where they're at. It's not a battle to point out who has it worse from their end.
I see the domestic roles as separate from gender identity. My wife's and my roles in the household are fairly conventional, just because that's the way it worked out years ago. While I wish to be seen as a woman, I am still going to do the "guy stuff", because I am good at it, because I always have, and because there's no need to disrupt our lives any more than my transition already is.
Our lesbian neighbours also divide up their domestic roles along traditional guy/girl lines and no one questions their identity as women.
I don't think that "wanting to be seen as a woman" in any way invalidates my identity as a woman. That is just a trick of semantics. It is shorthand for "wanting to be seen as the woman I have always been."
Roles aside, my wife does treat me as a woman, to the extent that is reasonable in my current part-time presentation. No doubt, that will be a shifting target. We go clothes shopping together now, and have a lot of fun doing it.
Quote from: Cailan Jade on February 18, 2017, 04:25:26 PMWhen I say "defined role" I mean the role she takes according to her personality. It's usually not a conscious thing. She has her ways and ideas of who she is and how she needs to live her life. I'm not referring to cultural roles or physical tasks around the house. I'm talking about the relationship roles we simply take because of who we are inside, how communication happens, stuff like that. It's fine to drop the more masculine/aggressive "male" role. I'm just saying that there are other femme roles that you can take without insisting on duplicating the areas of life where she feels the most comfort and value.
Oh dear, I think I'm even more confused than I was before.
Relationship roles, like how communication happens -- what do you mean? Like, for example... she wants to sit down after work and talk about her day, not to solve any problems but simply to share as a way of maintaining intimacy, and this could be about interactions with other people, or a project she's working on, what have you... and this daily conversation is how she gets to be seen and heard -- how she gets to be witnessed -- and as such it provides tremendous comfort and value to her... and you're saying that, as such, her wife shouldn't talk in the same manner and with the same expectations?
Thank you Cailan.
This helped me a lot. I am FtM but this applies to us too. If not more. There is some serious stigma about gay men. Many in the older generation has gay phobia.
I will wait until fall to tell my husband. It gives me time to sort my thoughts out. he will turn 50 this summer, we also have our anniversary in may. 19 years together. In the fall, nothing happens, except kids starting school.
Because of the usefulness of this topic and a request from a member, I have sticked this topic so it will remain easily seen by any members who view this area of the forum.
This decision was not reached lightly because personal feelings of being judged by others can enter into the picture resulting in arguments. I have already seen one account deletion that happened when I made some of the suggestions contained in this thread.
Please continue your exploration of this idea in courteous manor and don't make me regret my decision.
I want to say thank you for speaking out. My wife doesn't speak up about how it affects her and I noticed for myself the self-harm that she was doing. I hadn't even started anything, but she was feeling such pain that she cut herself. Being deployed, I can't physically check on her, but she seems to be doing fine, from the talks we've had since my coming here.
Her way of dealing with it, now, is to divorce me. If that helps her cope and lets us stay friends, I will not fight it. I still want her in my life and I want to stay a part of hers. We've been married for 14 years and we've been through a lot together. There's really nothing outside of not transitioning that would keep us together, and even then there's no guarantee that we'd stay together in the same capacity as before.
Though my wife doesn't really speak up about her feelings, she's not afraid of dishing out some passive aggressive comments meant to hurt me, rather than help, where I've been as helpful as can be and still feeling abused for being honest. It's like I can't do anything to make things better. So, I'm good with the future divorce and staying friends. I wouldn't want it any other way. I just want her to be happy because she deserves to be happy just as much as I do.
There's great advice here, and I appreciate it. My own wife "got the hint" when I proposed cross dressing in public for Halloween. She first thought I'd do a caricature job, showing my unshaven face, bald head and chest hairs, etc. I said no, I wanted to do it seriously, and she was supportive.
Since then, she's continued to be supportive of my "exploring my female side" and I'm OK with that for now. We've shopped for clothes together, wandered the bra aisles together (tough to find a 38B), gone in the dressing room together with all female clothes. I asked tonight if I could practice eye makeup on her, which she might let me do ;)
She offered to take me out for a night on the town in full-on cross dressed mode for my birthday, which we'll do this Saturday. Although at our 60-some ages the appeal of a dance club is significantly less than for younger folks. Need to find a good place to go out...
All in all things are going harmoniously and I'm happy with that. As others have said, the relationship is most important, more than all else.
Love, Randy
This is so familiar it's scary, my wife and I went to therapy together for the first time yesterday. My therapist helped us to be open and honest about what our expectations are, but as importantly what is to come. I have an appointment with a local surgeon/gyno/trans professional in May, my wife said she wants to be there and be involved with hrt and that which follows.
Thank you for this post.
With Love,
Ellen
This truly is a great post and sticky. As a married girl, i had meant to speak on it before. We all come from cultural bias of some sort that generally effects our expectations of romantic, marital and family life. This also fits within some set of gender expectations as well. From mundane things like who does the yard work and who cooks the most, to more profound things like who is the primary leader or protector in the relationships are often, but not always effected by these biases and expectations. Then you sometimes have to throw faith and religion in the mix and you have even more.
But, it is important to realize and believe that not all marriages are even close to the same and many don't fit many of these biases well at all. The sexual preference question is one of these things that people often make assumptions about when sometimes it truly does not matter. Sometimes people become situationally attracted to someone of a gender and only that someone of that gender.
Other times timing and place in life effect how marital change plays out. What are the other options? etc. Many marriages are not monogamous for instance and yet nearly everyone assumes that monogamy is one of the main expectations of almost all marriages. There are so many variables.
These experiences are and ideas are awesome and will resonate with many but also please understand some relationships face entirely different choices and challenges. I guess that is why couples and other therapy is so expensive and so important because it places a custom plan on top of very varied relationships.
Thank you for this post. Years ago, when I came out to my (current) fiancee, I made sure I was as open to her and honest to her as possible. Your post does hit some points that I otherwise didn't think about. It does give me a bit to chew on for a while. I will definitely sit down with her and go over this article. Once again, thank you for this post!
-Jamie
While there are some good points in the OP I feel that this is more than a little bit preachy.
I can understand that many of the points and observations have resonance for a number of people.
There is however a fundamental problem with compiling a list of do's and don'ts which is that the one making the list includes things they think are important.
I really wish people would stop telling people what they should do when they have no idea what may already have been done.
Implied in this post is the idea that we all hide the transness and only come out late in the proceedings.
I would offer my own situation as a sort of rebuttal.
I didn't identify until my partner and I had been married almost 18 years.
We don't hide anything, we take whatever time we need to come to terms with our core self and then we decide what to do about it.
I came out to my partner very quickly after I was certain about what I needed to understand.
In fact I didn't actually come out, she asked me out in a sense because she knew I was questioning.
When she asked I told, everything that I felt at that moment.
Also understand that when we come out we then begin to explore what we want as a life with our accepted identity.
How can anybody think that there is some sort of 'playbook' that we can all follow and get what we need for our life.
The bottom line is we deserve to do whatever we think necessary and that will be once we think to do it.
If you have a marriage that is a real partnership with open communication and respect and dignity shown to each other then you have a chance. If either person is somehow selfish and doesn't understand that in marriage everything is negotiated and sometimes you don't get what you want then you are doomed.
I could respond 100 different ways to this post...this is todays way because I read it today.
This OP is based on hurt feelings instead of compassion and real understanding.
there's only one person that hates me in this world, and that person is my ex-wife, not only because of my transition, but because of everything she did to me before anything happened, when I told her about me she made my life miserable for as long as she could, telling me that nobody in my family would accept me, that I'd die alone because of that, that I shouldn't change, then she left me, took my child and everything else and basically left me to my own luck in the street, these are valuable tips I will not deny it, if, and only if the one you try to live with is worth it, and if she/he is willing to deal with it.
If your couple doesn't want to deal with it please don't lie to yourselves, leave them, try to end in good terms, this may be selfish, but the mental health of others is not as important as YOUR mental health, because of the negatives of other people a lot of us have been at least thinking about suicide ourselves...
Look, I really get your point, but I can't possibly relate to that, in fact, I'm damaged, the betrayal and constant attacks I suffered and I'm still suffering from a liar that used to say that she loved me when I know it was a lie, even if I didn't tell her anything about a transition she hated me... it changed me, despite everything I trusted her, told her about me before anybody else, but she didn't even try to end on good terms, emotionally she did everything she could to destroy me, that's my experience, scarred me for life, despite that I can't hate her, but I can't be on her side, we get the short end, always, couples can just dissapear and pretend we never existed, living all happy and stuff.
Quote from: Alanna1990 on March 27, 2017, 07:15:09 PM
there's only one person that hates me in this world, and that person is my ex-wife, not only because of my transition, but because of everything she did to me before anything happened, when I told her about me she made my life miserable for as long as she could, telling me that nobody in my family would accept me, that I'd die alone because of that, that I shouldn't change, then she left me, took my child and everything else and basically left me to my own luck in the street, these are valuable tips I will not deny it, if, and only if the one you try to live with is worth it, and if she/he is willing to deal with it.
If your couple doesn't want to deal with it please don't lie to yourselves, leave them, try to end in good terms, this may be selfish, but the mental health of others is not as important as YOUR mental health, because of the negatives of other people a lot of us have been at least thinking about suicide ourselves...
Look, I really get your point, but I can't possibly relate to that, in fact, I'm damaged, the betrayal and constant attacks I suffered and I'm still suffering from a liar that used to say that she loved me when I know it was a lie, even if I didn't tell her anything about a transition she hated me... it changed me, despite everything I trusted her, told her about me before anybody else, but she didn't even try to end on good terms, emotionally she did everything she could to destroy me, that's my experience, scarred me for life, despite that I can't hate her, but I can't be on her side, we get the short end, always, couples can just dissapear and pretend we never existed, living all happy and stuff.
I agree with most of what you said. I can definitely relate to that experience because it's still a reality for me, right now. For me, it's difficult living with someone who says they support you, but who also tries to cut you down every chance she gets. It's downright maddening.
I don't know anything from experience, and I'm partially transmale, but from casual observation on this forum and from reading countless blogs and MtF autobiographies, it seems the people who have the least painful transitions are the ones the most "female" in mental traits.
For instance, my cis female relatives and friends, and sometimes I as well, routinely test the loyalty of prospective male partners, only dating males totally obedient to her. If, after dating or even being married a while, the male person starts showing disloyalty, obsessing over another female and/or trying to support another woman, at the former partner's expense, these cis women don't hesitate to put the man's things on the lawn and change the locks.
Yet most of the MtF people are willing to risk suicide and sacrifice themselves to keep their marriages. Ciswomen marry to have someone to take care of them, to be totally loyal and obedient to them, to be the center of their world, to raise their social status in the eyes of the world and their family. I even did that, when living as a woman.
As cis women, they aren't likely to be happy about suddenly having a spouse spending the family money on jewelry, clothes, and operations for themselves, and obsessing constantly about themselves, often going out on the town dressed like a hooker, destroying her hetero privilege and making her seem a "lesbian,' leaving her and her children to fend for themselves financially.
I noticed that the MtF people who had the smoothest, happiest transitions didn't have those slavishly obedient-to-the-death male traits. When they realized they had to transition or commit suicide, they simply divorced their spouses while still presenting as males, then transitioned in peace, beyond the reach of their wives' scorn and attacks.
Others simply told their wives very calmly that they had to transition to avoid suicide and that if she didn't want to stick around, they understood, and no hard feelings.
The ones who had trouble were the ones who had enough male in them to want to sacrifice anything, including themselves, to keep their marriages, somehow believing that transitioning wasn't that big a deal. They would only transition in the steps allowed by their wives, obeying her every command. Very strange to me.
If any female tries to tell me how to live my life, as they have, I simply laugh and ignore them.
Yet, as a partial transmale, I have a strong need to obey women. Luckily, I'm also partly female, so eventually that part of me is activated.
Quote from: Raell on March 30, 2017, 08:00:58 PM
I don't know anything from experience, and I'm partially transmale, but from casual observation on this forum and from reading countless blogs and MtF autobiographies, it seems the people who have the least painful transitions are the ones the most "female" in mental traits.
For instance, my cis female relatives and friends, and sometimes I as well, routinely test the loyalty of prospective male partners, only dating males totally obedient to her. If, after dating or even being married a while, the male person starts showing disloyalty, obsessing over another female and/or trying to support another woman, at the former partner's expense, these cis women don't hesitate to put the man's things on the lawn and change the locks.
Yet most of the MtF people are willing to risk suicide and sacrifice themselves to keep their marriages. Ciswomen marry to have someone to take care of them, to be totally loyal and obedient to them, to be the center of their world, to raise their social status in the eyes of the world and their family. I even did that, when living as a woman.
As cis women, they aren't likely to be happy about suddenly having a spouse spending the family money on jewelry, clothes, and operations for themselves, and obsessing constantly about themselves, often going out on the town dressed like a hooker, destroying her hetero privilege and making her seem a "lesbian,' leaving her and her children to fend for themselves financially.
I noticed that the MtF people who had the smoothest, happiest transitions didn't have those slavishly obedient-to-the-death male traits. When they realized they had to transition or commit suicide, they simply divorced their spouses while still presenting as males, then transitioned in peace, beyond the reach of their wives' scorn and attacks.
Others simply told their wives very calmly that they had to transition to avoid suicide and that if she didn't want to stick around, they understood, and no hard feelings.
The ones who had trouble were the ones who had enough male in them to want to sacrifice anything, including themselves, to keep their marriages, somehow believing that transitioning wasn't that big a deal. They would only transition in the steps allowed by their wives, obeying her every command. Very strange to me.
If any female tries to tell me how to live my life, as they have, I simply laugh and ignore them.
Yet, as a partial transmale, I have a strong need to obey women. Luckily, I'm also partly female, so eventually that part of me is activated.
**********************************************************************************************
Raell, I agree with you for the most part
I came out to my partner and started transition very immediately.
When I came out I told her I wanted to and that I also didn't know how far I wanted to go but that I would work that out as I went along.
In the beginning she had said that she was fine with everything except genital surgery.
I agreed to this idea but only to just be agreeable knowing that I would still wait and see how I really felt.
As transition progressed I started having genuine dysphoria about my genitals and so rather quickly I started the assessment process for surgery.
Once I had this done I read the assessment to my partner and she replied..."So you want a vagina?"
I said yes and now I have one.
This started 22 months ago.
I don't think I was ever slavish just cooperative because my marriage means a lot to me.
I love my partner and cant imagine why I would not.
She still would have liked me not to have surgery but I did and now at one month since that happened.
I never told my partner she could stick around or leave and I don't care.
I don't think we are that callous, those of us who want to stay with our female spouse.
I think you have a basic idea of what can happen but there are a lot more things going on than having a more male or female brain.
To the people with more of a male brain are the people I call crossdressers. They are the ones that desperately don't want to lose their wives. Normally they don't say anything to their wives, some do. Of the some who do, there are those who think they might like to give transition a try. But they don't really get too far usually and being devoted to their wife gives them an easy escape and excuse for not fully transitioning.
Ohh i see.
What a great thread. Thank you everyone who has contributed, especially the transmen. Your posts made me think about the topic from another side. To try to get somewhere close to what a cisgender wife must feel like when her husband comes out to her as MTF, imagine that she has just come out to you as FTM. How would you feel about her wearing your underwear, then sprouting hair, and smelling different, and asking for surgery?
Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man. That's surely no more true than it would be for a man.
Food for thought.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Your analogy is a valid one. ie, what about turning the tables? Yeah i would have been fine if my wife had come out as F2M. The changes would have taken some adapting, but i would support her 100%
Quote from: clayfit on May 23, 2017, 11:10:48 AM
How would you feel about her wearing your underwear, then sprouting hair, and smelling different, and asking for surgery?
Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man. That's surely no more true than it would be for a man.
Food for thought.
I was thinking about this hypothetical situation before we had the discussion about something she know from the beginning of our relationship. And she always made jokes about being bi.
Anyway I would have at least tried out of a sense of responsibility and respect.
There are nuances in every aspect and in my option it is no reason to be a f...g a.....e. Sorry for the language.
Especially if you have kids.
jm2c
Quote from: clayfit on May 23, 2017, 11:10:48 AM
Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man. That's surely no more true than it would be for a man.
Food for thought.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I understand whatg you are saying but I am not a cis guy I am a woman (and always have been)so am not going to react in the same way as a cis guy. My life experiences are not of a cis guy and neither are they for any other trans woman...Trans women are women trans men are men
Quote from: clayfit on May 23, 2017, 11:10:48 AM
What a great thread. Thank you everyone who has contributed, especially the transmen. Your posts made me think about the topic from another side. To try to get somewhere close to what a cisgender wife must feel like when her husband comes out to her as MTF, imagine that she has just come out to you as FTM. How would you feel about her wearing your underwear, then sprouting hair, and smelling different, and asking for surgery?
Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man. That's surely no more true than it would be for a man.
Food for thought.
I could understand that. Honestly, I've had dreams that my wife and I swapped bodies and experienced sex from each other's perspective. If she had, in real life, started transitioning into a male, I would totally be okay with it because I am bisexual. It would take a bit of getting used to, but I would eventually see it as something normal. Being that my wife is straight and cis, I understand that she's not as fluid as I am with my sexuality or as understanding of my transitioning.
Quote from: josie76
In the most personal ways I did not have manly examples so my true inner self showed. To her these reactions were baffling.
I find things like this really interesting. May I ask (if not it's not TMI, of course) which were those reactions from your true self that baffled her?
*This is Jenn88's wife ... future responses in this thread might be my husband who is in the process of transitioning MtF.
Honesty is key no matter how the relationship is currently framed or was founded. My partner and I have something of a unique relationship as we were friends in high school, housemates afterwards (in other relationships at the time), and then a couple. We also have been coworkers for 6 years. In an average month we might be apart from each other maybe 24 hrs,.. to put it simply I felt I knew him as well as I know myself (and honestly still feel so). Still his announcement came as a surprise to me. We as wives are not mind readers and I believe that every SO will have some sort initial gut reaction that is not a good representation of how everything will work out in the end. I personally had an initial 24 hrs or so of believing that our marriage was ending because I would no longer be able to fulfill his needs. And a lot of that reaction came from my own personal ignorance of what it means to be transgender. I had a lot of questions, some of which I researched independently but most of which he was thankfully able to answer for me. We had a LONG heart to heart which really helped me to understand how he feels, why he feels that way, and what his hopes for the future are and I found that it wasn't really all that different from how we already operate.
I think what I'm trying to say is that when you are ready to talk with your SO, be prepared for questions. Don't get stuck in the idea that us questioning is the same as us rejecting. It's not.. Don't be surprised if there is an initial bad reaction, just have faith that they will come around. I'm not saying every one will have the perfect balanced relationship afterwards, but being honest about your plans for the future will aid the way.
Quote from: Jenn88 on June 12, 2017, 08:34:22 PM
*This is Jenn88's wife ... future responses in this thread might be my husband who is in the process of transitioning MtF.
Honesty is key no matter how the relationship is currently framed or was founded. My partner and I have something of a unique relationship as we were friends in high school, housemates afterwards (in other relationships at the time), and then a couple. We also have been coworkers for 6 years. In an average month we might be apart from each other maybe 24 hrs,.. to put it simply I felt I knew him as well as I know myself (and honestly still feel so). Still his announcement came as a surprise to me. We as wives are not mind readers and I believe that every SO will have some sort initial gut reaction that is not a good representation of how everything will work out in the end. I personally had an initial 24 hrs or so of believing that our marriage was ending because I would no longer be able to fulfill his needs. And a lot of that reaction came from my own personal ignorance of what it means to be transgender. I had a lot of questions, some of which I researched independently but most of which he was thankfully able to answer for me. We had a LONG heart to heart which really helped me to understand how he feels, why he feels that way, and what his hopes for the future are and I found that it wasn't really all that different from how we already operate.
I think what I'm trying to say is that when you are ready to talk with your SO, be prepared for questions. Don't get stuck in the idea that us questioning is the same as us rejecting. It's not.. Don't be surprised if there is an initial bad reaction, just have faith that they will come around. I'm not saying every one will have the perfect balanced relationship afterwards, but being honest about your plans for the future will aid the way.
What a great Post, thanks for sharing that with us. Many of us would love to hear your experiences. I think your message of communication is a great one I know for my wife and I that without the talking we would not still be together and not just over my Transition.
Thanks for sharing your experience and I wouldn't mind reading any others you wish to share.
Liz
Quote from: ElizabethK on June 13, 2017, 03:28:50 AM
What a great Post, thanks for sharing that with us. Many of us would love to hear your experiences. I think your message of communication is a great one I know for my wife and I that without the talking we would not still be together and not just over my Transition.
Thanks for sharing your experience and I wouldn't mind reading any others you wish to share.
Liz
Communication is definitely key to success in many areas especially this one.
Sad thing is, you always need at least two to be willing to communicate and make compromises.
Unfortunately you can't force someone to communicate, especially if the are always choosing the easy way (out).
Quote from: HappyMoni on February 17, 2017, 06:25:48 PM
In my opinion, I cannot overstate how important this post is. There is so much insight given here. I would like to express my gratitude for you taking the time to present it. As a (married) trans person, I know how easy it is to become self absorbed with transition. It is maybe to be expected considering how long we must hide. The thing is, we have no excuse to ignore the feelings of those around us when coming out. (Obviously all bets are off when the reaction is hostile/ violent.) We should be respected for how traumatic it is for us, but we in turn should respect how traumatic it is for a spouse or child. Thank you for making this specific and practical, Cailan.
Moni
Moni -
I found it and as you say this is amazingly thorough, thoughtful, caring, and daunting!
Love and Hugs, Marcie
This is very helpful, thank you!!
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Hi All,
Great thread, I don't know how I missed it for all this time.
My wife and I have been married for almost 30 years. She knew I struggled with my gender since the 1st year of our marriage. At the time we both thought I could get over it, I was embarrassed because society wasn't the least bit accepting back then, so I decided to put it aside but it never went away. It was always with me. I would hide it from my wife because I knew she wasn't supportive of it and thought that if I just tried hard enough I could get over this. As we all know this is impossible.
In the last couple of years it's become harder and harder. My therapist thinks transition is the only answer. I have been on low dose E for about a year trying to fight the inevitable. I try to have talks with my wife but it's hard when two people want totally different outcomes. I feel I've compromised for 30 years not being my true self, raising a family and being a good husband. She thinks that if I transition it's the ultimate betrayal ignoring all the good times we had in our 30 years. Our marriage will probably end, but it wasn't like we didn't try.
I bring this up because I feel the original post is a useful guide on how to be compassionate to your spouse, but at the same time, it sort of glosses over the dedication and sacrifice a lot of transgender people have put into their relationships. It also doesn't discuss the benefits spouses have received by being in a relationship with someone whose gender wasn't cis.
Take care,
Paige :)
Paige as a 30 year marriage veteran as well I find some of this sticky useful but tend to agree with you, things like a huge emphasis on therapy for the wife and so on is something you really need to be careful about.
My wife falls into the category of loving me for who I am, she is not a lesbian but a straight woman. I don't know if it any more difficult for her than say someone who is bi or lesbian.
Absolutely get yourself in therapy but as far as you wife goes let her make that call, provide her with the tools. My wife saw my psychologist once and she was entirely happy. I often ask her if she thinks about wanting to do another session but she is not interested. I think this is very individual and you need to be very careful in the way you approach this.
The most important thing in my experience is to keep talking and give her space and time to process the information. Make sure she knows you love her and that as far as you are concerned the relationship is secure(if this is what you want) Give her some reason to want to accept the changes. If you take care of her in this early part and let her move at her own pace and all the time being with her and loving her then I think you have a much better chance of staying together.
Give her a chance to get used to the idea of you being trans before expecting her to buy women's clothes with you, or before deciding on going on a shopping spree. I know it was difficult for my spouse originally to shop with me but now we really enjoy it.
Love and time, space to process and support if and when she needs it now when you think its needed.
Just my thoughts
Both posts are truly wonderful. I am having the same almost exact set of problems. 45 yrs here. We are both the closest persons to each other possible but we survive in a love hate relationship. She is somewhat resistant to counseling, I am totally for it. She battles with acceptance and periods of denial. I have been very very open but she is still thinking its a phase or passing thing which it is not. I try to be lovingly understanding but the on and off again support really hurts. Thank you for all of your thoughts.
Jennifer
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Quote from: Jenniferloveslife on July 18, 2017, 05:29:15 PM
......... I have been very very open but she is still thinking its a phase or passing thing which it is not. I try to be lovingly understanding but the on and off again support really hurts. Thank you for all of your thoughts.
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
It can be really tough trying to do this especially if you are really in a bad way emotionally yourself. I am a firm believer in that you know your wife better than any of us....she still wants the same basic things to deal with...do you love her, will you leave, how secure is out relationship, depending on wether she had any idea before marriage or not can be a big one for most women, as they feel betrayed because of they didn't know.
It can be very complex issue and I hope you can work it out with her.
Liz
Thank you for your kind thoughts. Back in the early days she knew nothing and I was sure this "problem" would stop or go away - wrong! I didn't have the words or understanding then. Its been about 2 years now that she knows and I came out. I am wanting to Stay and I live her more than life but also dying inside and won't stop my transition. I have just slowed it down to try to work things out.
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Quote from: Raell on March 30, 2017, 08:00:58 PM
I don't know anything from experience, and I'm partially transmale, but from casual observation on this forum and from reading countless blogs and MtF autobiographies, it seems the people who have the least painful transitions are the ones the most "female" in mental traits.
For instance, my cis female relatives and friends, and sometimes I as well, routinely test the loyalty of prospective male partners, only dating males totally obedient to her. If, after dating or even being married a while, the male person starts showing disloyalty, obsessing over another female and/or trying to support another woman, at the former partner's expense, these cis women don't hesitate to put the man's things on the lawn and change the locks.
Yet most of the MtF people are willing to risk suicide and sacrifice themselves to keep their marriages. Ciswomen marry to have someone to take care of them, to be totally loyal and obedient to them, to be the center of their world, to raise their social status in the eyes of the world and their family. I even did that, when living as a woman.
As cis women, they aren't likely to be happy about suddenly having a spouse spending the family money on jewelry, clothes, and operations for themselves, and obsessing constantly about themselves, often going out on the town dressed like a hooker, destroying her hetero privilege and making her seem a "lesbian,' leaving her and her children to fend for themselves financially.
I noticed that the MtF people who had the smoothest, happiest transitions didn't have those slavishly obedient-to-the-death male traits. When they realized they had to transition or commit suicide, they simply divorced their spouses while still presenting as males, then transitioned in peace, beyond the reach of their wives' scorn and attacks.
Others simply told their wives very calmly that they had to transition to avoid suicide and that if she didn't want to stick around, they understood, and no hard feelings.
Spot on. Straight cis-females are cruelly practical 'being in total control honeys'. I hate them so much, I'd want to be one of them :)
Obviously, any Susan.org members are excluded
Such a great posting, thank you Cailan Jerika!
My wife has known I had issues with my sexuality nearly our whole marriage. She let me "explore" as long as I was safe and it didn't infringe on our time together. We have married for 37 years. I had been giving her all the clues for years but not in her face. 2 months ago I told her I wanted breasts. She wasn't surprised and within a month I was on hrt. We have continued conversations that I had let her know that I wanted to be a woman but I can take this as slow as we need. She tells me she isnt angry or bitter and she sees us together into the future.
Thanks again, Jessica
My wife and I have been married 27 years in October. She didn't see this coming at all, so effective I was in hiding myself. But that was it, I was always hiding myself from everyone. It's been a few months now since I told her. We did it one Monday evening in our living room.
These past few months have been a roller coaster of emotion for both of us. Neither of us wants to separate or divorce although that has come up in conversation several times. I planned to go full time in December but now that most of our family and close friends know I asked how she would feel if I moved the timeline up to October. A week ago that was fine. Friday she expressed concern that it was too soon.
We spoke about it in more details yesterday and she said she might not stick around. She said she didn't know if she could handle it in spite for the overwhelming support I've received from friends and family. As we talked she said she couldn't trust me. Keeping this from her all these years broke her heart, and her trust. Visiting a doctor and counselor without her knowledge, shopping without her knowledge and the like, in her mind is akin to lying to her.
As our conversation continued I tried to understand her point of view, although I didn't fully agree with her assessment. This relationship thing is hard because we never had the kind of relationship where I accounted for my every moment to her. I agreed to work on that and as the day progressed we were in a much better place.
We are seeing an attorney Tuesday to make sure we are clear on the law in Tennessee regarding our marital status after my transition to full time. Thursday I meet with HR about a schedule for my transition at work. All the pieces seem to be coming together after all these years. I hope my wife will be by my side through the whole thing. Guess we will see.
Wow really good ready :)
This is something I've seen over the years with couples coming through, it's quite traumatic, what a good read!!!
Quote from: BareBellaBeauty on September 21, 2017, 09:57:55 PM
Wow really good ready :)
This is something I've seen over the years with couples coming through, it's quite traumatic, what a good read!!!
Dear BareBellaBeauty
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cccc
This is really useful information and it's definitely helped me to understand a bit more what my partner is going through at the moment. For me I think I'm still in the relief stage as I've been going through it for years but for her it's all new.
Molly
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Quote from: MollyPants on September 22, 2017, 04:21:06 AM
This is really useful information and it's definitely helped me to understand a bit more what my partner is going through at the moment. For me I think I'm still in the relief stage as I've been going through it for years but for her it's all new.
Molly
If you want to understand more - read 'My husband Betty' by Helen Boyd... She speaks about many issues she personally had, and other spouses she met, and she was sympathetic to the cause, a progressive feminist to the core and knew about Betty before the marriage.
wow, this is an informative and mindblowing post for me, it is SO outside the realm of my personal experience in that I, a trans girl, have NEVER even DATED anyone who did not know I was female identified, let alone being married to someone who didn't know.
it makes me sigh relieved, this would be so hard to deal with. I have had two spouses, and both have loved me as a woman, and even both had their own experiences being on the spectrum.
my current soul mate, love of my life and best friend is a cis woman who is lesbian identified and pretty much is romantic SOLELY with trans women. the idea of her being challenged by any aspect of my transition is just non-existent. she's even excited that I will be undergoing GRS soon, despite the fact that I was originally non-op, and gave her two beautiful daughters in the traditional way that babies are made.
so just. wow. so different than what I've known.
Quote from: elkie-t on September 22, 2017, 06:29:53 AM
If you want to understand more - read 'My husband Betty' by Helen Boyd... She speaks about many issues she personally had, and other spouses she met, and she was sympathetic to the cause, a progressive feminist to the core and knew about Betty before the marriage.
Thank you Elkie for the book referral. I'm reading it now and seeing myself and my wife in a lot of it. It is also providing some useful insights into my own status. Recommended.
Randy
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Quote from: RandyL on October 11, 2017, 05:23:37 PM
Thank you Elkie for the book referral. I'm reading it now and seeing myself and my wife in a lot of it. It is also providing some useful insights into my own status. Recommended.
Randy
Yw, thanks for thanking me. Apparently I'm not totally evil and hating person :$
Thank you so much for this post. I wish I found it about a month earlier, it would have helped in the coming out part of my life. I'm going to share this with my wife and hope we still grow as a couple.
Again, thank you for this. It means a lot to me.
This whole thread is gold, and I'm appreciating it so much. Thanks to everyone for sharing. Even the difference of opinions is informative and helpful.
As it looks like transition is becoming more and more likely in my near or distant future, I'm glossing over this every once in a while as a reminder. A few things in it sound like no-brainers - ie communication - but it's easy to forget to talk everything through before you up and do it or start making plans.
The role-taking thing was an eye-opener, though. This current leg of my trans explorations actually came about when I realized I was a BDSM switch instead of just a submissive, and that made him nervous about what his kink role in our marriage would be. As it turns out, my dominant side went entirely hand-in-hand with my masculine side. So not only did he have to contend with the idea that his sub wanted to beat somebody up, but also that his sub wanted to be a man while doing it. I do sense that he is very anxious about what it will mean to be a straight husband in a marriage with another man - it'll be necessary to assure him that I won't want to compete with him, that I won't want to "out-husband" him, that I'll still want him to kill the spiders while I do most of the cooking and cleaning. Our domestic and BDSM roles won't change, and I'm not gonna go all 'bro' on him... well, at least not a lot.
Maybe I can get him to write a corollary to this when all is said and done: "Advice from a husband how to not blow up your marriage"
Quote from: BT04 on December 22, 2017, 11:02:11 AM
Maybe I can get him to write a corollary to this when all is said and done: "Advice from a husband how to not blow up your marriage"
That sounds like a great idea! You know, it sounds like your husband is in the same place as my wife; she is still straight, but doesn't want to divorce (not yet, at least). I imagine that he'll either find a way to reconcile his feelings for you and his orientation. You could say that he's a "you-sexual". In my case, I would be exstatic to hear my wife say that she's a Bridget-sexual, but she'll probably not be doing that, tbh. I hope he finds it in his heart to stay in your life.
Has anyone succeeding in talking their spouse into therapy/counseling after they have repeatedly refused? My wife of 14 years has always suffered from severe depression, and has refused therapy repeatedly on her own or as a couple. I have always been her rock, but now that I am ready to finally address some of my issues I don't think I will be able to rely on her in the same way. How can she help me when she still has so much left to work through herself?
Quote from: Lea L on December 22, 2017, 10:07:59 AM
This whole thread is gold, and I'm appreciating it so much. Thanks to everyone for sharing. Even the difference of opinions is informative and helpful.
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Quote from: Lea L on December 22, 2017, 07:31:53 PM
Has anyone succeeding in talking their spouse into therapy/counseling after they have repeatedly refused? My wife of 14 years has always suffered from severe depression, and has refused therapy repeatedly on her own or as a couple. I have always been her rock, but now that I am ready to finally address some of my issues I don't think I will be able to rely on her in the same way. How can she help me when she still has so much left to work through herself?
Welcome to Susan's Place. It's difficult to force somebody into therapy but you might mention it to your family doctor. Depression can have many causes from social issues to chemical imbalances. Possible by explaining that her depression isn't the result of her inability to deal with it but may be the result of something she was born with could reduce the stigma of seeking therapy. The solution to her problems could be restoring a proper chemical balance.
Thank you for the warm reception! I will try to put together an intro post soon (how not to keep it novel length!?)
Yes, I have tried coming from the chemical imbalance perspective as well, since her family has a history of depression.
I go to my first therapy session on Jan 2, and I'm going to try to be open with her about it. Hopefully my going first will help pave the way? Maybe?
Quote from: SiobhánF on December 22, 2017, 11:30:25 AM
That sounds like a great idea! You know, it sounds like your husband is in the same place as my wife; she is still straight, but doesn't want to divorce (not yet, at least). I imagine that he'll either find a way to reconcile his feelings for you and his orientation. You could say that he's a "you-sexual". In my case, I would be exstatic to hear my wife say that she's a Bridget-sexual, but she'll probably not be doing that, tbh. I hope he finds it in his heart to stay in your life.
Well, that is yet to be seen... he's at least a "me-romantic", but he's currently under the impression that our sex life will probably not exist after this, even though I still find him attractive. He has joked, though (and in a well-meaning way) that he'd still kiss me "depending on how long the beard is". Good thing I don't intend on growing one out! We are most DEFINITELY not divorcing - it's not even on the table. So at least there's that.
I hope you and your wife make it through all this... even if she doesn't have my husband's sense of humor about it. (The humor really does help, for what it's worth.)
My observations
My wife has contended with my strange and mostly wierd kinks over our 13 yr marriage. I now know these were me trying to figure me out. Once i started transitioning i knew all that behind me was attempts to hide my true female self. Saying that makes me somewhat understandable to her. Last summer she found out about my secret side but i didnt come clean when she caught me underdressing. Realy wish i had at that time.
This December she asked if i liked having breast and i just blurted out that i loved them and the conversation began. It is for sure a hard thing to discuss but it must be done openly and honestly. I have gone thru a lot in a little bit of time but for her its been monumental.
Its not about sex with us as we haven't been intimate in a long time( due to above mentioned kinks) but it creaps her out in a lesbian sort of way now even just to kiss me. I am seeing a counsellor and she has started as well. We are doing our best and things are progressing. She is getting on board and talking is helping. She suggested a wig and told my she will help with cloths shopping as i pick to much frill. She is trying to help with makeup now so these are makeing us a little closer. She does refer to me as girlfriend for the most part.
I all i can say is its the daily talks we have over coffee every morning. It has become a ritual thing and its all a work in progress and that hour we set aside to vent, cry, scream and just plain answer any and all question with out judgement is majorly important.
No one should underestimate the power of talk, two weeks ago my wife went thru the roof when i wore a skirt and blouse for the first time in front of her. Last monday i left for work in a blouse and womans jeans, lipstick and pink nails and blush with her blessings and today i have been in pantyhose and a mid thigh red yellow white and black animal print dress all day with hardly a second look. Dont give up and i wish all similar results.
💓💗Donna💞💗
This post has given me a lot to chew on. ( or choke on.) Yes at times I have been selfish. And forgotten who has consistently been one of my few allies.
I am fortunate that my partner is bi- sexual. But this still isn't what she signed up for.
Part me wishes I was a lot less chicken >-bleeped-<, and that I just would have came out decades ago. I didn't want to be alone. And I thought I could out grow this. I still harbor a ton guilt.
I can't fix the past. But I can only move forward. For our marriage to work, I have to accept the facts that things won't be perfect because of the decisions I made. I kinda thought this would just go away. I was wrong. And it nearly cost me my life.
I have to move forward and always keep her needs in mind and in my heart. While I continue to try to find myself.
Cailan - Thank you, it sounds like really great advice - have definitely taken it on-board since its relevant to me.
Sonja.
Hello,
I experienced a very humbling experience recently that came from my wife and daughter. Their claim was that I was an over achiever who simply achieved. They set up a hate crime against me, and could only hope for fate to teach me a lesson without killing me. I have had real trust issues with them both since. I am male to female, and had similar responses to hate crimes in the past. Feeling insecure, a little suicidal, and that I am inadequate, and suffered from low self esteem. These trust issues, that are real trust issues, involve my safety, security, and welfare. I no longer can trust my family to respect my will. I simply stay alive on survival instincts, the sad news is my academic and spiritual growth has been abbreviated. I have a hard time in knowing who to care for, and who to keep in mind when doing my work. My family seems to have undertaken being responsible for my real, and veritable PTSD syndrome. I can look at them in the eye, but not with the trust of unconditional love. I no longer feel that my attachment to them is safe. While I have not been badly hurt, I am bent out of shape. For me it is futile, I surrender looking for any hope, inspiration or self esteem in our relationship, I do not even consider them to be relevant since their actions are irrational. Have anyone suffered from a rebellion from family against them to the degree of a hate crime, if so please let me know so we can talk.
Quote from: Wendyway2 on March 08, 2018, 12:17:04 AM
Hello,
I experienced a very humbling experience recently that came from my wife and daughter. Their claim was that I was an over achiever who simply achieved. They set up a hate crime against me, and could only hope for fate to teach me a lesson without killing me. I have had real trust issues with them both since. I am male to female, and had similar responses to hate crimes in the past. Feeling insecure, a little suicidal, and that I am inadequate, and suffered from low self esteem. These trust issues, that are real trust issues, involve my safety, security, and welfare. I no longer can trust my family to respect my will. I simply stay alive on survival instincts, the sad news is my academic and spiritual growth has been abbreviated. I have a hard time in knowing who to care for, and who to keep in mind when doing my work. My family seems to have undertaken being responsible for my real, and veritable PTSD syndrome. I can look at them in the eye, but not with the trust of unconditional love. I no longer feel that my attachment to them is safe. While I have not been badly hurt, I am bent out of shape. For me it is futile, I surrender looking for any hope, inspiration or self esteem in our relationship, I do not even consider them to be relevant since their actions are irrational. Have anyone suffered from a rebellion from family against them to the degree of a hate crime, if so please let me know so we can talk.
Well, not so much a "hate crime," but I have been on the receiving end of some toxic language and attitudes coming from my wife, and further from my kids because of her. So, I don't know what I can do besides biding my time until I feel secure enough to move out. She's nice when she wants to be. She'll be an absolute bitch towards me one minute, then act like a considerate friend the next. I don't know what to trust anymore, either. Emotional abuse is pretty toxic.
Quote from: Wendyway2 on March 08, 2018, 12:17:04 AM
Hello,
I experienced a very humbling experience recently that came from my wife and daughter. Their claim was that I was an over achiever who simply achieved. They set up a hate crime against me, and could only hope for fate to teach me a lesson without killing me. I have had real trust issues with them both since. I am male to female, and had similar responses to hate crimes in the past. Feeling insecure, a little suicidal, and that I am inadequate, and suffered from low self esteem. These trust issues, that are real trust issues, involve my safety, security, and welfare. I no longer can trust my family to respect my will. I simply stay alive on survival instincts, the sad news is my academic and spiritual growth has been abbreviated. I have a hard time in knowing who to care for, and who to keep in mind when doing my work. My family seems to have undertaken being responsible for my real, and veritable PTSD syndrome. I can look at them in the eye, but not with the trust of unconditional love. I no longer feel that my attachment to them is safe. While I have not been badly hurt, I am bent out of shape. For me it is futile, I surrender looking for any hope, inspiration or self esteem in our relationship, I do not even consider them to be relevant since their actions are irrational. Have anyone suffered from a rebellion from family against them to the degree of a hate crime, if so please let me know so we can talk.
Hi Wendyway
I have had no end of issues with my family...mother, father, brother and many here could attest to my state of mind after many of these encounters...my wife and adult daughters are 100% supportive and back me every time as well as go out of their way to try and protect me from as much of the hate as possible.
My Family whilst certainly not in the "hate crime" league have had at times a severe impact on me and more recently I have discovered the level of their deceit. It has shot my confidence all to heck and as recently as this morning I feel really worthless as a result of interacting with my Father in particular. Feel free to PM me if you would like to chat/vent.
Take care
Liz
Thank you so much for everyone that contributed to this Article in one way or the other.
I am a 41 year old M to F person with the Dysphoria. I told my wife about my issues in the 3rd month of our marriage 11 years back. For some reasons, she had to suppress that from the outside world. Slowly it started to grow. The final trigger for me happened in the summer of 2016. From that time, living itself has become unbearable. I have been into depression most of the time, but I didn't want to quit. I lived to fight this thing out while saving the family life. Now we have a 10 year old daughter and a 7 year old son. I have opened up to my daughter. Initially she said it feels bad to not have a father. But when I told her if she prefers me as a suffering father or a woman who is truly happy and will dedicate the rest of the life to her, she then made her decision that she wants that woman who will be happy. The difficulty still is about my son. Not sure how to treat him. More so, he is so much fascinated about me and does everything what I do. He follows me at each and every step. That's my wife's biggest worry.
She came with me for two sittings with the Psychologist who referred me to the Endo. Then she came for the first sitting with the Endocrinologist last Saturday. Today I had to go all by myself.
I have forwarded this article to her from my new email id and requested her to go through it. So far her adjustment to what I have told in the 3rd month of marriage, especially living in India (a society so idiotically glued to the age old customs and millions of Gods), what she has been coping up so far is beyond anyone's thoughts. She is doing so great. However, my mind these days is only occupied with one thing and one thing alone. I want the HRT to be started badly. I cannot think anything else than that. She might be having her own apprehensions, but I requested and keep on begging her to understand. I love them and I can't see them rejecting me for what I am.
Love
Alyssa
Being trans and keeping such a deep personal relationship is very hard. My wife and I have kids together. They keep us attached even when she doesn't feel that she wants to. We bounce back and forth based on how she is feeling about me. Sometimes she wants me, sometimes very much the opposite. She does not really want the real me, the feminine me, the natural me. Despite this she still feels love for me. My feelings really never wavered, until... A while back she told me she didn't want a relationship with me. She was angry a lot. I took me a few weeks to start to come to terms with this change. I slept on my kids bottom bunk. Then she said she wanted me to leave. This broke my heart. Crushed it really. Before a week was done she wanted me back again. It has reversed a time or two since then. My trust in her is now broken in a way that all of the things we went through together in our past never did.
I understand she wants the masculine. She remembers me as a different person. Really the man she wanted that I never was and never could fulfill for her though I tried very hard to. Right now I just want to stay close to my kids. I have a real mother's love for them. Despite her often feeling like I was working all the time, I was there doing my share of child rearing. I was up at night with both of them. I did evening baths, diapers, bottles, potty training. She might feel I was gone a lot but I was there all I could be. I lived out of the diaper bag as much as she did.
Life is complicated. ::) She finally started therapy for her own issues. I think this has evoked strong emotions in her that have spilled over onto what anger she already felt toward me. Maybe things will improve with time. Right now I feel myself insulating my heart from her. I'm not happy about it but I cannot keep going fully open and vulnerable anymore.
This post works well for any married couple, too, regardless of genders.
I am a genderfluid transman, and my partner is a gender-nonconforming ciswoman. We began dating before I started questioning my gender, and have gone through all of what the post said during my transition.
Saying that, I feel like the most important part about being the transitioner in the relationship is honesty, two-way communication, and involving your partner in your transition. My partner told me straight up when I mentioned hormones that she would only be comfortable with me taking them if we had a session with a therapist together first, so she can get a better understanding of what's happening from an outsider's POV, and I agreed to that. It postponed my transition, yes, but that was the compromise.
I've also been vocal with her about any sort of surgeries I might want to have, especially when it comes to reassignment. She needs to be involved in that decision as well, since we have a sex life after all.
It just breaks my heart and makes me angry when I hear about spouses leaving their trans partners for the sole reason of being trans, but following this post can, and more than likely will, prevent that from happening.
Hi, I haven't posted much as I'm just 3 months HRT (tomorrow) and I dunno... just doing the lurking thing and so forth. There are some really, really sweet stories (totally cried over one or two of them) and some horror shows happening here. :embarrassed:
I'm one of the lucky ones as my wife seems to have known better than I did that I desperately needed to transitiong (It was she who asked me four months ago "Why don't you just transition?" I took a day, and said "yes", and here I am!) The thing is, I had essentially given up on the hope of really being me many years before we ever even found each other. It's funny though because I prayed for someone like her to come along many times ( I feared only ever finding carbon copies of my ex) and she did, sure enough!
She's mostly cis-ish but I detect dudeness in there in at times! (She denies this, and I laugh inwardly anyway, swearing I know her better than she does! ;D)
We have one child together and two steps for me. Plus I have twin daughters from the old battle axe from before. However, they are 24 now and out of the house. The steps natural father passed away about five years ago. For me, my family have all really done nothing BUT support and encourage me all along, from the beginning! It's a tad easier for them though as my stepson is FTM and came out to me (yes, me of all people in the world, I just know he sensed something in me) when he was 8 saying to me privately "I feel like two different people inside." (Yes, I f**king cried my eyes out that day). Anyway we are almost reality tv worthy or something, except... no way!
I'm really sorry to hear so many people struggling with this stuff. I have no magic words really, other than some kind of understanding that the OP has some important words about communication for all of us. In fact, despite all I've said my wife and I have had a rough couple weeks just trying to sort relationship stuff that is far beyond just being trans or anything really to do with that. Which is why I opened this thread in the first place. It's hard because I get nervous when I think to myself that transitioning is supposed to be all about me. It feels selfish to me, and I DO want to honor and respect the feelings of the people who, quite honestly, make life safe for me during this time.
However, I do relate to some of the horror stories too. When I was younger I was like many other trans people who are unable to be their true selves. I used drugs to cope, and it became a real problem in my life. My relationship at the time was just like many being described here (so toxic), including the hurtfullness of my long time girlfriend (The battle axe above who is the twins' mother >:-)). I came out as bi to her to test the waters, but ended up doing nothing more as she just proceeded to hurt me repeatedly afterward.
I eventually got clean and was told throughout the process that in order to really get clean I had to let go of all my negative attachments, or at least be prepared to do this if we couldn't beat the obvious and prolonged codependency we both displayed. It took awhile, and got even uglier, but eventually we parted ways and I took a really long time picking up the pieces. It was the right thing to do in all ways, really for both of us. She flat out told me she needed a manly man, and I flat out realized I needed a woman far different than she was capable of being.
Transitioning reminds me of that experience all over again except for me this time I am not with someone so intent on hurting me. I was the "housewife" and second "mother-ish" type before transitioning anyway, and actually moving forward has only really helped me stop fighting those needs and desires, and in turn made my ability to help in our day-to-day lives much better! I was never interested in, nor really good at "manly pursuits" like lawns, repairing stuff, blah, blah, blah... BORING! ;)
She kinda is, or at least likes being the "tomboy" part time.
Despite all of this we too run into all sorts of communication issues related to past traumas that can stop both of us in our tracks. They can derail either or both of us. Our new mantra has become some variation of "I have to own..." where one or the other of us just owns our mistakes honestly, and makes a real and serious commitment to stop making that same mistake. It takes work, and patience. It also takes some kind of real love for the other, and maybe even that corny sense of being one person together or something, but with those kinds of things going for someone, I think any couple has a chance. It's just that though, a chance. Still it feels like if we can maintain things in a positive way, that even if the relationship crashes and burns, that we can take many positives from it.
Without any or at least some of these things, I would try and be as respectful as possible to my SO, even if I thought she didn't deserve it and would cut that negative attachment out as quickly as possible and/or prudent.
But really that's a sound way to live life no matter what issue you face!
I'm so glad to be a woman, finally! Thank you for letting me lurk and now post!
Hi, MorganLeFey!
Welcome to Susan's.
I am glad that you have supportive relationships. Thank you for sharing your eperience.
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I should have read Cailan's post before the blowup. Maybe my marriage would have been safe. This is the most complete text I have read that explain how a transgender can blowup a marriage, like I did. [emoji17] I was thinking just about myself, how depressive I was and did not saw my couple problems.
Sabrina
We cannot learn life, we can only live it.
Envoyé de mon LG-H873 en utilisant Tapatalk
Quote from: dizz on May 04, 2018, 02:48:10 AM
I should have read Cailan's post before the blowup. Maybe my marriage would have been safe. This is the most complete text I have read that explain how a transgender can blowup a marriage, like I did. [emoji17] I was thinking just about myself, how depressive I was and did not saw my couple problems.
Sabrina
We cannot learn life, we can only live it.
Envoyé de mon LG-H873 en utilisant Tapatalk
Don't be too hard on yourself. Everyone has a different life and degree of mental hardship. My girlfriend and I are both trans and I want to transition but it does not hurt my self image as a woman if I have to wait to save money. My girlfriend (she is genderfluid) on the other hand identifies more with her assigned sex but has severe depression and feels dysphoria about not being able to pass as male.
I don't know what your life was like pretransition, but I can tell from your posts that you seem very fulfilled today despite the blowup. So it seems to have been a good decision for your mental health, and that is something worth taking care of.
Hugs,
Bren
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Quote from: Thessa on May 23, 2017, 12:08:59 PM
.
.
There are nuances in every aspect and in my option it is no reason to be a f...g a.....e. Sorry for the language.
Especially if you have kids.
jm2c
Hi Thessa, 04 May 2018
I think we may have been in the US Navy together; your language is very familiar and similar to mine.
Many years ago I realized what you said here is 100% on target. That is how I was when I was married to my first wife. I've lived with that since and will for the rest of my life; it's my personal hell and there is no way of escaping it nor do I want to escape it. I owe her that. She did not deserve how I was with her and what I did to her. Some day I'll post the whole sordid story; she is gone now.
The moral to this is be very careful what we say to, and how we treat others. "I'm Sorry" is so over used it's worthless and meaningless and almost to the point of being insulting. We really need to think before we say or do something that will hurt another being.
Sorry for being preachy; sometimes I have to get parts of the story out, its my penance.
Best Always,
Christine
This post was incredibly useful and informative, Cailan! Thank you so much!!
I had previous thought of ways I would let me wife know, but I had not thought about several of these reasons/scenarios that you brought up. My main plan for letting her know hasn't changed much, but the implementation of it, definitely has.
For me, when I really saw myself as transgender, I felt like the world came alive around me, I was in touch with me senses and could actually understand(and feel) how much I love my wife. Soon after, I had thought about being physically intimate with her once again, which hasn't happened in a long time.
And in all honesty, I would have told her already if not for certain circumstances in our lives, and that I would like to be a bit better of a woman, too. I am in no way going to start HRT until after she knows, that's for sure.
I can't express how helpful this post is to me. I am going to tell my wife soon and want to make it work for us, I would hate to see her upset, it tears me up. She's having a hard time with depression and adding this to the mix would just be bad timing, I am waiting to pick my moment. She's amazing and will be supportive, but I want to do it in the best way possible and give us time so we can adjust.
Thank you for posting, it meant a lot to me.
Rose, no matter how gentle you are I'm going to venture a guess she will be upset. I hope she isn't but this is a huge thing to have dropped on you by your spouse.
Make sure what ever you do try to get it done sooner than later especially if you have already started any meds. Myself I should have told my wife sooner but was 7 months on meds and not able to hide some of the changes I was having. It had to come out and this really hurt her trust in me in that I didn't talk to her sooner. Be absolutely open and honest when you talk to her, women have a BS detector that will catch you everytime and for something this emotional it super sensitive.
Now 13 months after meds and 6.5 months after telling her we are coping and surviving, we have become closer in a lot of thing but we have some very defined triggers as well. You have to understand the huge emotional range and don't tell her what she is thinking. Let her tell you and make sure you listen.
Be prepared for counselling, you , her and maybe both. It will be helpful.
Good Luck and as you go ahead you will open a great new world
Of course, you're right. There is no easy way. I haven't started on meds, so far I have spoken to my medical insurance and looked into my companies policy on transgender. I am extraordinarily lucky where I work, they are very supportive and will help with the legal side of changing my gender.
It will be a difficult discussion but I feel we will make it together, I know my wife and I think she will be supportive and will help me go through the process. She has some fluidity when it comes to gender attraction and I don't think it will come as a huge surprise, this is her husband though and as was mentioned in another reply, she will be losing her husband.
When I was younger, I experienced first hand bias and violence which left more than a few scars (physical not mental) and some health issues will make this a difficult journey. I love my wife beyond anything else and we are very strong together, I have never lied to her about anything and we talk about everything. I feel I am lieing to her by not talking to her about this decision and I cant have that. I will correct that soon.
I am so appreciative of finding this forum and the amazing advice from people here. It means a lot to me and I can't express enough how much it means to me.
Hugs
I came clean with my wife tonight, we talked about it and she's accepting of me. In one conversation all the tension and anxiety just went away. I have a doctors appointment friday and seeing a gender therapist next week and we will do it together.
I realise how lucky I am with my wife, I left England and moved to the states to be with her as she's the only one for me.
Thank you everyone, I haven't felt this happy in a long time.
Quote from: NC_Rose on July 10, 2018, 01:39:56 AM
I came clean with my wife tonight, we talked about it and she's accepting of me. In one conversation all the tension and anxiety just went away. I have a doctors appointment friday and seeing a gender therapist next week and we will do it together.
I realise how lucky I am with my wife, I left England and moved to the states to be with her as she's the only one for me.
Thank you everyone, I haven't felt this happy in a long time.
Hi NC_Rose,
Congratulations. I'm glad it worked out so well :)
Paige :)
It went well, there was a lot of hugging, some crying then more hugging again.
Although she did mention if I use her makeup, she would end me and no one would find the body......!
I feel like years of tension and despair have just washed away.
That's great Rose. You couldn't ask for anything better than that. Treat her well she is very special and make sure your time with her stays in the forefront. You are going to go thru a lot soon and it's going to test you both emotionally. You have a great start and it will be so worthwhile.
Love you Girl 💗💕
Thanks Donna, the one thing I need to do is slow down. This is something I have always lived with and now everything is out in the open I want to just forge ahead. But this is something my wife has just learned and come to terms with. So as much as I would like to start transitioning straight away, I need to slow down so we can do it together. We are seeing my doctor tomorrow and getting a recommendation for a therapist experienced in transitioning and we will work through the process together.
I think it will get easier once she starts to see me as "she" rather than "him" so I am going through my closet and starting to clear some of my clothes down, keeping some outfits in place when I need to be seen as a man until I can dress and be seen as a women full time. I have come out to a lot of my friends now so it won't be a shock if they come round and see me dressed as a woman. We will go shopping for clothes together to build up a wardrobe more inline with who I am.
We are comfortable, but I know she's still a little freaked out. I have always known, but for her it's been less than 3 days. So I need to give her time to feel comfortable and know she's not losing me. We are very close and have always been open and feel able to talk about anything, so we have never had secrets and I honestly can't remember the last time we ever argued. I think this will bring us together closer over time, I just need to be patient.
Good luck with everything that is coming your way, it's great to talk about slowing down and it's going to be harder than you think. You will make it and the bumps along the way will make you a better person. Arguing is something IMHO that needs to happen to be able to say the hard stuff and clear the air and brain. My wife is very honest about all this. She hates it and what it has done to us, but on the other hand she is an ardent supporter of me moving ahead. Yesterday she called the pharmacy and said her husband would be over to pick up a prescription and then realized what she had said, I caught it as well and knew it hurt her. Things like this are going to come up, work with her and help her but don't hold here feeling against her. I'm so glad she is helping with shopping, I love it when that happens. I come home and they're will be a package in the mail for her and it's all new stuff for me. She introduced me to colors I would never have dreamed of and now I'm hooked, she has me dressing appropriately and even suggesting changes when I pick questionable combos( it's the male thing). Dressing age appropriate was a big teaching moment from my wife and buying for everyday. For much frill and fancy doesn't work for grocery shopping. I did use it yesterday when I wore a dress to buy a new air conditioner. I was about to load it in the truck when a young lady told her boyfriend to help the lady( me) with it. That was so polite of them. Have a great time and enjoy
Quote from: Donna on July 15, 2018, 09:06:10 AM
... Arguing is something IMHO that needs to happen to be able to say the hard stuff and clear the air and brain....
Thanks for your post, I disagree with arguing, we never get to that stage as we talk everything out and it never reaches boiling point. Communication has never been a problem with us and she will voice any concerns or upsets and we talk them through. I am very lucky in that regard. We had a talk last night as she's worried about a lot of the trauma I had as a child (too long and depressing to share) I have come to terms with it, but at the end of it, she called me a "bitch" in a playful way, we both stopped and then laughed our asses off. It felt good as she referred to me as a "bitch" instead of her usual "masculine" insults (I am English, we insult each other as form of affection).
I think slowing down to her pace will help and aid adjusting, she gave me a makeup box to keep my stuff in and so we have things separate, she also let me wear her skirt so we can get an idea of sizes and styles. It was natural and not uncomfortable, she told me that I had better not look better in a skirt than she did or she would end me and the only evidence left would be a pair of stilettos sticking up out of a suspicious mound in the yard. I love that girl, she's amazing :-)
I loved your story about getting help at the store, it made me smile.
Hugs
Arguing was really the wrong word to use. Sorry about that. We have the most honest and open talks and we hold nothing back. Every idea , concern and positive and negative thing gets discussed and we always finish our conversations completely. Glad you two are so good with each other
Quote from: Donna on July 17, 2018, 11:31:34 AM
Arguing was really the wrong word to use. Sorry about that. We have the most honest and open talks and we hold nothing back. Every idea , concern and positive and negative thing gets discussed and we always finish our conversations completely. Glad you two are so good with each other
I totally agree. I nearly married a girl when I was in my 20s who I fell head over heels for (no pun intended), but we couldn't stop arguing. Every day, she thrived on them. They would come out of the blue. I felt sick all the time with worrying what would set her off. I realised that as much as I cared for her, I couldn't live like this and moved on. It makes me realise how special my wife is, we talk about everything no matter how it may upset someone, but we do it in a way where we work it out and it never reaches a boiling point. Its healthy, my former relationship was very toxic.
It's was the thought of talking to her about me being trans and hurting her made me hesitant, I felt by not telling her I was lying to her and that hurt me most. Talking to her helped and although it was initially scary, we are in a comfortable place now. We are both very open. I know that she will have little freakouts during the journey, seeing me in makeup (she loved that though and is helping), watching me start to dress full time and find a look I am comfortable in. All those moments have to be taken slowly so we can both adjust.
Many of us in the trans community have spouses or significant others whom we love and hope their love is strong enough to take the journey with us. Like many others, it wasn't in my case. Four weeks ago, I told my then-girlfriend of nine months about my trans past: my dressing as a pre-teen, my failed attempt at transitioning two years ago, and my current attempt to restart. She had many questions, which I honestly answered, but it was apparent from the beginning that she was having a hard time coping with this new reality. During the next few days, she continued to ask questions, including asking me to send her a picture of Laura. I did, but her response that I was "an ugly woman" didn't move us forward. She clearly missed the man I was and couldn't imagine a world where her boyfriend was really her girlfriend.
By the third day, she told me that she was a "traditional woman, that she wanted to marry a "real man", but that we could still be best friends.
ahh, the best friend tag. Not exactly what I was hoping for. This was actually one of the reasons for stopping my transition two years ago; the prospect of losing friends and the people I love. This time around, I'm staying firmly in the closet; that is, I'm on HRT, I dress when I'm at home, but I don't have a roadmap for ever going 24/7.
Two weeks into HRT and a few more before I feel the tingling.
Laura
I'm sorry to hear that dear. Laura no one should be calling any one ugly. It so sad to need to be closeted. Give HRT a chance and you may feel better about yourself. Talk with people here ask question and PM if you want to chat.
Losing friends will happen but if they leave they were not true friends. I've lost 6 people from my circle. One is very bad as it's my stepson. The other close one is not lost but my youngest brother just can't dfind any way to talk to me right now, he doesn't know what to say. The others are of no consequence. My wife is having a hard time with her part of transitioning but our life will go on together. Take care of yourself first and leave relationships for a bit until you see how HRT works for you. This does come from my asexual point of view and not a judgement of others relationship. If a relationship is important right now go for it. First and foremost this is about you
Quote from: lauraelliott1951 on July 19, 2018, 07:37:16 PM... By the third day, she told me that she was a "traditional woman, that she wanted to marry a "real man", but that we could still be best friends....
Hugs hun, that sucks to be honest.
I think a big key in how spouses handle it is how good the relationship was prior to the coming out or discovery. I think a strong relationship has light-years better chances of surviving than one with other significant issues. I,m afraid mine may fall in the latter category. My wife has made it clear she doesn't,t want to share a house with an ugly woman or see me presenting as female at all. She can handle it being compartmentalized and on the dL out of sight. Doesn't sound that great to me, though i don't even know if I want to transition. There is a lot to think about and it may come down to a Sophie's choice. Hope not.
Quote from: randim on July 20, 2018, 03:35:26 PM
I think a strong relationship has light-years better chances of surviving than one with other significant issues.
Hi randim,
Yes this is probably true but it's not a guarantee. My wife and I have had a very good relationship for 31 years, but if I transition she has told me there's no chance our relationship as a couple can continue, "she's not a lesbian". Unfortunately some things can't be overcome even in the best relationships.
Take care,
Paige :)
My wife suspected and asked many times over the last 14 years if I wanted to be a woman. Of course I always said no. But we have a good relationship and my transition is causing her to hate it and question us. She hates the lesbian aspect and the fact she married a male an she is gone.
Transitioning is going to be difficult at best and only the two individuals can make it work out. It takes a huge amount of patience and tolerance. We are still together and trying to make it work and I hope the best for others in the same place.
I don't think there is any thread of hope that my wife and I will stay married. I'm not one to force or compel someone to do something they don't want to do, so I respect her decision to not stay with me. It's her choice too, so let's not forget that spouses deserve to be happy just like we do. I wouldn't dream of taking decisions of self-determination away from her. It may suck, but it sucks for her too. Usually, when a spouse makes the choice to not remain in the relationship, it's because they've had their views the entire time about themselves and their relationships. In my case, she married a man and expected to remain married to a man and to raise our kids together as man and woman. By my transitioning, I have essentially taken her man from her and given her the choice to either be with a woman or leave that person.
Personally, I couldn't care less about whether the person I'm with were to transition to a man, or transition to a woman (depending on which direction they happen to be going), but that's me. I'm bisexual and I tend to love the person and their essence than simply what they are. I understand her when she says that she isn't a lesbian and that she can't be with a woman. I used to say things like, "You may be straight, but so is spaghetti until it's wet," but within context of our transitions, it isn't so simple for every person. I think we just need to have more compassion for our spouses and the situation we have put them in, that's all.
This entire thread made for a fascinating read. It's a topic I've been struggling to really find any discussion on. There are so many brilliant points that I wish I had seen before I spoke to my wife. I made an absolute mess of coming out to my wife. I did it at quite possibly the worst moment I could have done and it didn't go well. We do love each other and she has forgiven me for this. The problem we now face (which I see as a common theme on the thread) is she's not a lesbian and doesn't want to be married to a woman.
I don't know if and how this is something we can overcome. As mentioned we love each a lot and we both have a big capacity for forgiveness but sometimes our marriage is a little volatile. Not violent but a fair amount of arguing and when it's good it's great. I can't see my wife taking it well if I tell her I want to transition. She is brilliantly supportive at the moment and encouraging therapists but I think it's because she thinks I won't feel this way anymore. I am starting therapy and will talk to them about this too and take it from there but I have a feeling I've a hard choice to make in my future. Break my marriage or live life unhappily. I hope it's not the case and we can have a happy ending but I'm not hopeful.
Thanks for listening.
Abi
I wish I had seen this long ago. I feel so alone and it helps knowing that my feelings are valid too.
Unfortuantely in my situation, honesty was completely undervalued. I still don't know the truth and don't know that I ever will. I feel as if I've been made to feel like a terrible person for not having a good initial reaction. This post and conversation has really made me feel much better. Thank you.
Wow Thank you for this great post it hits all the right points and things to consider.
I am going to be more open with my wife about what I want and what I am thinking.
I have a very very bad time not expressing myself. That is one of my greatest problems.
She tells me all the time that she is not a mind reader. We have to remember that this is going to affect the both of us and I think it's super hard for them. I think I want to keep all my bits and pieces. But then I was reading about cutting out the twins that live in the apartment down stairs that are always hanging around.and making things hard on me.
Lots of love....
AJ
Quote from: wonderland on November 11, 2018, 01:31:44 PM
I wish I had seen this long ago. I feel so alone and it helps knowing that my feelings are valid too.
Unfortuantely in my situation, honesty was completely undervalued. I still don't know the truth and don't know that I ever will. I feel as if I've been made to feel like a terrible person for not having a good initial reaction. This post and conversation has really made me feel much better. Thank you.
Hi Wonderland,
I've been labelled dishonest by my wife on more than one occasion. I think she's finally starting to realize a couple of things. Society has never been accepting of transgender people and many of us were taught from a young age to be ashamed and hide it. In fact we were taught to be dishonest about this.
Now when you try and be honest but get a very negative reaction when you are, it's very easy to revert to old habits. Someone may say that honesty is the most important thing in their relationship but may not be entirely honest themselves in saying that. They probably have other priorities in the relationship, that can make it difficult for the transgender person to be completely honest.
I'm pretty sure my wife prefers not to hear me talk about me being transgender even though she said she wants to hear about it. Her actions and reactions demonstrate this time and time again. But if I do something without telling her, she has accused me of being sneaky and dishonest.
To be truly honest is hard. You've may need to admit to each other that this long term relationship may need to end. You may need to discuss how the relationship will end. When nobody wants the relationship to end, and no compromise can be found, things get very tricky. There's an elephant in the room and nobody is talking about it.
I think what this thread has demonstrated over and over again is that understanding is very important for both sides. This isn't a walk in the park for anyone.
Take care,
Paige :)
Hi. I came out to my fiance of 16 years in January. Truthfully I've suffered with mental gender dysphoria my whole life but never realised it. You can read my thread in introductions for more insight. Unlike many transwomen who wish to fully convert, it is not my desire to convert fully but to align my mental gender with my body. I am somewhat of a two-spirit, male body, female mind.
However our sex life has faltered somewhat since 2017. I never had trouble with self-sex, but would get tired easily and had performance anxiety. So rather than talk to my doctor about low T or getting a little blue pill, I searched for herbal remedies to boost my male libido. Many of these contain phytoestrogen plant hormones and have similar effects on men and women. I also picked up a bottle of dhea and took it for a couple weeks, then ceased because some of the health warnings were scary.
Back to point, I've always been caring, effeminent, understanding to my fiance, basically the polar opposite of the alpha male jock types who abused her in the past, as well as other cis-gendered women who've shared personal stories with me of similar tales of sexual, physical, or verbal abuse.
I am blessed to have been both right and left brained dominant. AJ, the androgynous nickname I used as a child (not disclosing my given legal name), is severe adhd, borderline genius level analytical and spacial reasoning, introverted, borderline Ausbergers, dysgraphia, terrible at sports, loves dance music but can't dance to save his life, retro video game addict, and often has trouble relating to others.
My alter ego, Amber Jean (the name I assigned my newfound mental gender identify), is extrovert, caring, passionate, a poet, an artist who puts a feminine flare on everything she touches, relates well to women (reason why I could not relate to peers growing up, yet women I got close to shared deeply personal secrets with me), athletic, and immediately breaks into dance and song whenever any music is playing.
People speak of alter egos like a demon trapped inside them, whose soul and very existence needs to be stamped out. Well mine was an angel trapped inside a troubled boy's/man's mind. I have opened pandoa's box and there's no closing it now. Alicia Keys accapella B-track on her debut album Songs in A minor, "I know why the caged bird sings..." has become my swan song. The children's parable "the ugly duckling" resonated with me as a child. I was different, but never realized it until very recently.
My fiance and I have not always seen eye to eye, but since day one we've always been upfront and honest with each other, about everything. Even if truth hurts, it is better than lying or keeping secrets. I began experiencing late onset dysphoria around November 2018. I've been going through "midlife", "manopause" or whatever people call it these days. She warned me some years ago, "you're going to hit that midlife crisis eventually," and I brushed i off. She's 11 years my senior, has more life experience, and she was right...
So Christmas holiday was stressful. I got some royalty monies from my uncle's land sale, inherited a ceramic kiln from an elderly lady, and decided to start building a studio in he back yard. I found out I had hypertension, and my sedentary existence (despite having "manned up" and held a blue collar job at a local plant for the past year and a half) had me teetering at 300 pounds for the past couple years.
The stress and dysphoria caused even more bedroom anxiety. I was too soft, to tired to perform, confused about who I was, then there was that year old bottle of dhea sitting in my drawer which might increase my libido but might also result in feminization. I started taking them around the same time I started high blood pressure medicine. I stopped boozing at night, rid myself of crippling caffeine / energy drink addiction, drastically cut back my caloric intake, and began riding my mountain bike after work, 10-15 miles everyday. Also the weight loss pool at work. I've lost 30 pounds in two months (half a pound per day average). I am going to win that competition... 😎
I am getting ahead of myself. Stream of consciousness and insomnia, lol.
Self medication is not recommended and I do not encourage it, but it has worked wonders. My body became estrogen dominant. My fiance and I rarely kiss, but one evening late January in a smokey room at a bar, I looked at the woman sitting next to me and started making out. I had two beers that night, both fairly high proof craft beers, and unbeknownst to me at the tme, my body was already starting to transition. My tolerance for both alcohol and caffeine under the new regimen has dropped dramatically.
Alcohol impairs cognitive function, makes us vulnerable. It can also function as a truth serum. I kissed her on the forehead. "I need to tell you something."
"What" she asked.
"I love you."
"I love you too."
After about 30 "I love you"s, I finally came out.
"I'm not sure if I'm a heterosexual male, or a lesbian trapped inside a man's body. Does that sound strange?"
"Not really," she said, and rolled over to go back to sleep.
Neither of us smoke, but the bar was unbearable. Four bands were playing that night, but we left midway through the second act. I was hoarse when we awoke to goto church. Normally I would completely lose the top range of my vocal range when I get hoarse, and my speaking voice drops. This time, my speech was more of an effeminent squeak. I felt my Adam's Apple. It was shrinking!🤯
After church I asked her if she remembered what we talked about. She replied, "you just told me you loved me over and over." So I repeated it, completely sober. She said it was okay, just don't lose my "manliness."
Well fast forward a couple weeks and she was less onboard with the prospect, and visibly upset when she realised I was actively starting to feminize. I combined some phyto supplements with the dhea and got toxic. She had a function on Valntine's night, so we set the date for Friday.
I realise the OP said don't let stuff happen on important dates like Valentne's or Anniversaries, but I felt awful and spent the evening flushing supplements down the toilet. Crisis can happen on any day, special or not. On top of that, i was acting ridiculous at work, body of a 38 year old man, hormones of a 13 year old girl. I pushed my new vocal range too high too fast, and did an epic rendition of Blondie's "One way or another" in my car during lunch break. By 7pm that night, I had developed laryngitis and couldn't speak at all on Friday. I worked a full shift, keeping murmurs to a whisper and using nonverbal communication whenever possible, though it started coming back later that evening, just in time for date night.
Date night, Friday the 15th, was magical. I had reservations at the casino steakhouse. Hormones build up in fatty tissue. My estrogen had tapered to the point where I was a mature adult female mentally, not a raging hormonal teenager. Dinner was magical. Every bite was an orgasm of flavor in my mouth. I observed an interracial couple sitting across the restaurant. The woman had bright blue christmas lights around her neck and I remembered wearing a multicolor strand like that at Christmas. My fiance said, "I think it's her birthday or something."
The lady glanced in my direction and I instantly fixed my gaze back on my fiance. I was doing an observed behavior I've witnessed countless times among cis-gendered women but never fully comprehended: checking out the competition. As I gazed longingly into her eyes, a thought entered my mind. "I am so gay for her." We had a complementary bottle of wine with the meal and elected to take it home unopened rather than consume on the premesis. The roses I bought for her, I noticed I could smell them from across the room rather than stick my nose to the. No wonder women love flowers. The are pretty, smell nice, and add an ambiance even if they wilt and die after a few days.
Saturday, third day no hormones, we ordered pizza and opened the wine while watching a sleazy Argentinian romance on Netflix. A couple was engaged to be wed, and the bride's sister came with her boyfriend. Long story short, everybody had affairs with everyone. The groom was definitely a stud. I can say that even if I'm still attracted to cis-gendered women? She told me he looked like some guy I've never heard of. I told her he looked like Antonio Benderas, when he was still in his prime not the old washed up version. Normally as male, I would dismiss such thoughts, but as a female, my thoughts are different. That sunday after church, I looked both actors up. I still believed the stud from the movie was more like young Antonio, but I digress. As a cis-hetero-male, I was a very poor judge of male physique. Now I don't need to be sexually attracted to appreciate.
Sunday afternoon, Feb 17th, the estrogen was worn off. My body was hormone depleted, and I felt lethargic. I promised my fiance I would quit the supplements, and talk to my doctor about low T. But that might make me like a jock. My mortal enemy in the schoolyard. I did not want to become what I hated. It was then that I realised if I followed her wishes and stopped now, I would suffer with dysphoria for the rest of her life. So I defiantly returned to the pharmacy and bought another bottle. She was st standing next to me as I checked out. I refuse to keep secrets from her. I will ask her opinion on something, she'll say "no," then I'll do it anyway, right in front of her. She caught me in the cosmetics isle at Walmart buying purple lipstick and told me to put it back. I placed it in the cart and checked out. She's watched me apply it in the car mirror. Presenting as androgynous or non-gender conforming in "safe" public spaces has been a confidence boost, for me.
She is pure cis-gendered hetro, and not on board with my progress. We have watched lesbian love scenes in adult films in the past, and she got turned on. However, having the man she fell in love with try to "present" as a woman in the privacy of her home, is a turn off. We still make love. We still bond and hang out. She sees herself as a dark queen and wants a dark knight. Well need and want are two different things. I've always been a white knight. Still am. "How can you be a white knight if you're trying to become a woman?"
"Joan of Ark was a knight in shining armour too."
"Yeah and she got burned at the stke," she added.
"She was a martyr. She died for what she believed."
She's expressed her dissatisfaction with my new "life choice," but it isn't a choice. She even said, "I want a whole man, not a half man." Those words stabbed my heart like a knife. Call me a man. Call me a woman. A dual spirit. I am a whole person, a complete individual, not half of anything, nor am I an "it." I correct her when she uses inappropriate language, but sometimes I feel it falls on deaf ears. My mental and physical genders do not align. She takes pills for diabetes. Something is out of balance; and a pill prescribed by a doctor fixes it. Hormones do the same. Correct an imbalance. However they do cross the blood brain barrier and as a result, one cannot feminize the mind without the body or visa-versa.
Eventually I'll see my therapist and get a recommendation letter so I can talk to an endicrinologist and get a prescription for real hormones. Until then, the dhea supplement half works. In the meantime, my body is estrogen dominant and slowly transitioning. The feminine feeling fades occasionally but I'm making progress. Exercise helps tremendously.
Again, I apologize for the wall of text posts. I love my fiance. I will always open doors for her, give her flowers. If anyone can recommend advice or how to do things or approach them differently, please let me know. She won't see her therapist. She won't see mine for a couple's session. She's opened up to two friends already. One of them tried to set her up on a blind date with another man (that did not go well, but I'll reserve judgement and thanked her for openly communicating this to me). Her neighbor laughed and did not believe her that I am trans. "He's just goin through a midlife. It will pass..."
Some friends huh? Many cis-gender people, even pro-lgb, do not understand trans...
This thread has really helped me. Thanks to everyonr.
I told my wife a week ago. That I am a transwoman. It wasn't totally news, but she was shocked.
She has been great. Trying to understand. Really caring.
At first. I felt it was ll about my pain, fears. I started to listen. She has her fears too. But her courage in facing and expressing her feelings reinforced my love for her.
It is a day to day adventure. We are in this together. In realnterms closer than before.
My walls of denial are down. This morning she asked if she could be honest in expressing her fears, then told me of her concern about her family reactions.
One thing we talked about. How would I have reacted if she announced she was F to M.
I knew immediately more of her position.
Gina
Quote from: GinaG on March 10, 2019, 01:29:29 PM
One thing we talked about. How would I have reacted if she announced she was F to M.
I knew immediately more of her position.
Gina
@GinaG Hi Gina
From my experience this last part is very important. If you can view it from your wife's point of view then you will go a long way to helping keep things intact. Much will depend on what you now both want...however having that insight as a basis, for how you look at the way your wife is responding, is going to make a big difference if you respond accordingly.
Good Luck
Liz
Some of the things to expect from a heterosexual wife:
When I first came out, she thought it was a drunken rant, but it wasn't. She called me names which hurt but I gently corrected her.
Fat redistribution and a more effemininent voice were among the first changes. Yeah they say the voice doen't increase in pitch or resonance much, but mine has, a lot. Tenors will have more headroom for improvement than basses. I'm an Alto now after only two months of supplements.
The fat redistribution thing. I asked her to touch my breasts, and she reached out like a child at the haunted house sticking her hand into a bowl of fresh spaghetti. "Eww," and immediately retracted it. Your torso may look a bit strange at first. Maybe because my breasts are no further developed right now than a 11-12 year old girl. This would weird anyone out.
Also don't pressure her to touch you but be her friend and romantic companion. The touching will resume during lovemaking, assuming it's still on the cards. I am not suppressing testosterone at all so I can "perform" as a male. Having a female captain at the helm has its benefits. You will find new ways to please her as you explore your own triggers. A woman's body is incredibly complex, and genetic males have all the neural connections that women do, even if the equipment is different. Sometimes in the privacy of her home, I'll sit and explore myself. This weirds her out too, but I have to learn my new triggers.
Pheromones are another deal. I am attracted to cis-gendered women. My groin and armpit areas started to smell more like her than the old me. For me, this was a turn on to become aroused by my own scent, but a turn off for her. She still misses my smell.
While my love for her is unchanged, speech patterns and mannerisms are different. We have 16 years of memories together, yet she fells she doesn't know me anymore.
As a cis-male, I would have been off put had she began to bulk up, grow body hair, and a deeper voice. But now I am going through transition, I could see myself going for it. She is not, however, and I would prefer it that way.
Do not isolate yourself or hide truths from her. Be honest, even if it hurts. It will do less damage in the long haul. I've done things after she's told me "no," but I will not try to hide it or play coverup.
Maybe this helps, I don't know. Every spouse reacts different.
I've read this post a few times, and the attendant responses, and I find myself contemplating it's message daily. Yet I still can't shake the feeling that I'm standing 25 feet inside a very very large minefield wearing a blindfold trying to decide where to jump based on the future price of Vietnamese rice in the London market as sold on the New York exchange by a day trader in Belize. This is all so perilous and scary and everyone else's maps say "you can make it to the other side if you're very careful and considerate and loving and a little lucky, but don't expect to have ALL your limbs when you get there!" I guess we can't have our cake, eat it too, and expect to be skinny when it's done. :) Thank you for writing this, and thank you to everyone who's added to this post. Your insights are invaluable to me.
I think I'll go hug my husband and try 'listening' to him right now.
These are all excellent points and I suspect if you looked at most relationship self help books these will present themselves in various flavors. Relationships take hard work but the fundamental building blocks of Trust, Honesty, Forgiveness, Understanding, Respect, and Love should be second nature to us all.
For those in relationships these are wise words in my eyes. Try to share, try to include your significant other as much as they are comfortable with, Make them part of your growth and healing as your true self unfolds.
Understand there are no guarantees. You can do everything right and things may still explode but there is some solace in knowing you tried.
Most of all Love Yourself
Quote from: KathyLauren on February 18, 2017, 06:59:20 PM
I see the domestic roles as separate from gender identity. My wife's and my roles in the household are fairly conventional, just because that's the way it worked out years ago. While I wish to be seen as a woman, I am still going to do the "guy stuff", because I am good at it, because I always have, and because there's no need to disrupt our lives any more than my transition already is.
Our lesbian neighbours also divide up their domestic roles along traditional guy/girl lines and no one questions their identity as women.
I don't think that "wanting to be seen as a woman" in any way invalidates my identity as a woman. That is just a trick of semantics. It is shorthand for "wanting to be seen as the woman I have always been."
Roles aside, my wife does treat me as a woman, to the extent that is reasonable in my current part-time presentation. No doubt, that will be a shifting target. We go clothes shopping together now, and have a lot of fun doing it.
I probably would earn a failing mark in "traditional" transexuality and relationship roles. My wife was never "Susie Homemaker" and this was a strange oddness in our relationship. She doesn't cook or clean and if someone from the outside shows up (Thanksgiving) it causes her a lot of distress. My parents took me aside and told me she has to have something to do because she feels bad that she isn't doing traditional role stuff.
I suppose this was maybe an appeal? Or is it opposites attract? I really don't know. She certainly has an open mind about people who are gay (Relatives who are out) and when a friend was going through transition (mtf) we went to dinner, got invited to the wedding etc.
I want to thank again the starter of this thread. its good to hear a perspective of a wife who has been through the mill so to speak. The discussion of suicide makes me very upset. I deal with some depression / anxiety but self destruction isn't on my problem list. What concerns me are the wives of Transgendered people who are! I'm sad and a bit ashamed that didn't read on my radar. I know things aren't as bad as they were 20 years ago (or 30 or 40) when this was all ascribed to being a mental illness. But thanks (I think) to gay folks this is finally being looked at as something else. And to jump off topic I tried researching this as a medical issue and find articles on male versus female brains and how prebirth chemistry wires the brain one way and the sex organs the other. I also find really angry outraged people who seem to think that what you are "assigned" (hate this term) is what you are and they have the xx xys to prove it. Sigh... I think this would be so much easier if this was all dealt with earlier in life.
Quote from: Lea L on December 22, 2017, 07:31:53 PM
Has anyone succeeding in talking their spouse into therapy/counseling after they have repeatedly refused? My wife of 14 years has always suffered from severe depression, and has refused therapy repeatedly on her own or as a couple. I have always been her rock, but now that I am ready to finally address some of my issues I don't think I will be able to rely on her in the same way. How can she help me when she still has so much left to work through herself?
I just want to say how much I hope your wife will look into therapy or therapy / medication whatever helps. Having to deal with mental health issues aside from anythings else is horrible and no one should do it without some support. Is there anyway you can maybe sit down and talk about how these things can make you miserable and unable to function? Then once she has some support network in place you can more easily work out the complicated baggage of one of you being trans?
Quote from: BT04 on December 22, 2017, 11:02:11 AM
As it looks like transition is becoming more and more likely in my near or distant future, I'm glossing over this every once in a while as a reminder. A few things in it sound like no-brainers - ie communication - but it's easy to forget to talk everything through before you up and do it or start making plans.
The role-taking thing was an eye-opener, though. This current leg of my trans explorations actually came about when I realized I was a BDSM switch instead of just a submissive, and that made him nervous about what his kink role in our marriage would be. As it turns out, my dominant side went entirely hand-in-hand with my masculine side. So not only did he have to contend with the idea that his sub wanted to beat somebody up, but also that his sub wanted to be a man while doing it. I do sense that he is very anxious about what it will mean to be a straight husband in a marriage with another man - it'll be necessary to assure him that I won't want to compete with him, that I won't want to "out-husband" him, that I'll still want him to kill the spiders while I do most of the cooking and cleaning. Our domestic and BDSM roles won't change, and I'm not gonna go all 'bro' on him... well, at least not a lot.
Maybe I can get him to write a corollary to this when all is said and done: "Advice from a husband how to not blow up your marriage"
So how are you now doing Seth? I think you are much like me. And my partner has similar worries. Although our roles and tasks have never been gendertypical and he is a switch and so am i he is afraid of me being a male physically. Very much so. Even though i am i tiny human. I still apparently frighten him should i have a cock. Strange.
I'm fortunate in a way to be married to a fellow bisexual but even he's struggling a bit and it frightens me. he may be bi, but he's never actually BEEN with a guy despite having a few crushes. To go from a lifetime of straight relationships straight into gay marriage is... well, a big deal I suppose.
I suppose i'm more laid back in that I don't much care about gender and if he turned around and told me he wanted to be a girl i'd take him out shopping and we could learn to "girl" together (Because i'm super terrible at the whole girl thing, you know, not being really female hahah) but I suppose it's easy to SAY that when you aren't experiencing it.
to his credit he's been pretty good and supportive, but he falters sometimes and I see in his face he's uncomfortable with a topic or an idea.
and that worries me, because I worry forging ahead will lose him, that he'll no longer find me attractive. That he'll realise maybe he's actually not bi and super straight after all (straight people honestly freaking bewilder me but that's a whole other matter)
Those fears make me reluctant to push forward, take baby steps rather than big strides, seek compromises that I think I can live with.
And that's sad but I suppose that's partnership isn't it? Compromise and empathy.
Transition isn't just about me, it's about him too. His whole identity will change just like mine will. He'll no longer be "the man of the house", no longer have straight white guy privilage (I told him I felt bad about taking that from him). He'll suddenly be part of a marginalised group and experience prejudices he never previously had to experience.
I mean it's a pretty safe place to be as a straight passing bisexual.
Not so safe when everyone assumes you're gay.
His life is going to change just like mine, or relationship will change, our sex lives will change. Much as I like to believe things won't be that different, ultimately the very way we interact with the world WILL. We'll no longer be able to travel to certain parts of the world, no longer be able to show affection in public so easily, we'll get funny looks when out with our children. it's going to be a challenge.
I keep reminding myself not to take it personally when I get excited and he gets scared. Not to get too upset if he just can't handle something at this exact moment. It's hard, but I have to try because ultimately, we ARE a partnership and I cannot do this without him. He's my rock and my best friend, I would never wish to hurt him in any way.
This journey will be long and filled with trecherous terrain, but I want him by my side, even if that means I have to hold back and wait for him to catch me up a little.
Thank you for writing this.
My situation is similar. I recognize much of this.
There are so many unknowns. Having no idea how he will respond despite going slow is hard.
Worries about no longer being attracted / attractivewith every change almost every day.
Weighing uncomparable things against each other that keep changeing weight all the time.
( meaning the value of components of hapiness weighed against each other...but except these things are also not separate really but inter twined... it's a nightmare) I hope we can stay together. . But then why change how i look. But I want to ..... Etc. Etc.