I had someone today, a not so-well aged lady in her 50's, plump, leather skin, looked frankly horrible... and she kept making 'man' jokes when i was around. Specifically designed to elicit responses eluding to I assume it was me, based pretty much on our interaction. I know I wasn't reading into it, and I know she was intentionally doing it to make me uncomfortable. After about the 4th occurance of this tonight I knew I had to address her directly.
I found a chance in private, instead of creating a public drama... and she acts all wide eyed innocent, "I never knew I was doing anything to offend you" bull>-bleeped-< theatrical crap. I know what you were doing. You know very good & well what you were doing. I left it at that though, and chose to just let her express her innocence. If she rears her ugly butt again I guarantee you I will address it directly. Possibly making it public as she is. I don't like confrontation, but I will make her look like a vindictive hateful ugly bitch if I can.
So here's my irritation. I actually think I'm pretty. I'm tall, have an hourglass figure, and ya I cheated with a bit of FFS (I say a bit, because it certainly wasn't 'the works')... and as a whole am not lacking in attention from guys. Maybe she's jealous? If so then whey the stupid guy comments. I can walk in almost any room full of women and not be looked at twice. And lastly aint nothing inside our outside that even hints of XY. Unless you happen to be able to read my chromosomes, and even that has some squirrely things inside for the unwary.
Part of me feels like throttling that fat neck of hers. The other part of me feels like ripping her insides out socially by letting everyone else know what a dirt bag she is. Both responses probably are a shade dark, but that's how I feel.
Question) What would be a better response do you think?
I'm open to suggestions.
I feel you were right on the mark with your private conversation. If she does it again, calling her out publicly, will in effect be putting the spotlight on you also. If others are aware that your transgender, no big deal, but if you are living life incognito, it could disrupt it all.
My guess is if she is human at all and feigns innocence, truthfully or not, she learned her lesson.
If she didn't learn from your private message that you were offended, nothing will make things different.
Hugs and smiles from a California girl
Quote from: Jessica on September 04, 2018, 11:34:19 PM
I feel you were right on the mark with your private conversation. If she does it again, calling her out publicly, will in effect be putting the spotlight on you also. If others are aware that your transgender, no big deal, but if you are living life incognito, it could disrupt it all.
My guess is if she is human at all and feigns innocence, truthfully or not, she learned her lesson.
If she didn't learn from your private message that you were offended, nothing will make things different.
Hugs and smiles from a California girl
Here's the thing. I don't remotely consider myself 'transgendered' at this point. I was born with screwed up genitals (they call it mixed gonadal dysgenesis now) but she has no need to know that at all. I am interesexed, proud to be so, but am not 'out' as my statis. If doctors can barely comprehend the complexity of my case her silly peasant butt surely won't. I highly suspect it stems from a religious nutcase theocratical mindset in the first place, and do not want to even step foot in that hornets nest.
Yes I'm 'stealth'. But stealth as what? I don't share the most intimate details of my life with you? Then sure, I'm 'stealth'. pft.
I think you are just living life, not needing validation from anyone. Which is the way it should be.
The terms stealth and incognito is misleading in that it implies you are hiding something, where it's not a matter of hiding anything, it's a matter of it's none of your business.
This busybody is one of the rude folks that are here and there in life. They seek attention in their pointless, boring lives.
Avoiding her is my thought. If she didn't get your message, she never will and may become even more toxic if poked in public.
Hugs and smiles from a California girl
I would call her out if she did it again especially if you look better than her and get attention from others. She is probably jellous and angry that you look better than her and get more attention. Sounds like she certainly has a motive.
I would not say a word, but I would give her a stare that would burn through her head. A very long stare that would return the intense discomfort. She will get the message, and you don't have to say a word.
Quote from: HappyMoni on September 05, 2018, 05:04:29 AM
I would not say a word, but I would give her a stare that would burn through her head. A very long stare that would return the intense discomfort. She will get the message, and you don't have to say a word.
I totally concur with Moni.
Generally, responding to harsh words with harsh, or harsher, words, never makes things better. Few humans respond to being pushed by falling down and giving in. It sounds like you will have to be in the presence of this woman again in the future. There is no long-term good that can come from trying to resolve the situation with angry options, even if you are very angry.
And, of course, that is much easier to type than to do.
Good luck!
Kate
Here's thing about trolling - when it doesn't work it becomes boring. So you can try to make joke by yourself and show troll you have balls to laugh at him.
Quote from: HappyMoni on September 05, 2018, 05:04:29 AM
I would not say a word, but I would give her a stare that would burn through her head. A very long stare that would return the intense discomfort. She will get the message, and you don't have to say a word.
@Doreen cc: @KatieP @HappyMoni Dear Doreen:My feelings are well known... and about answering your question in
your original post:
"What would be a better response do you think?"I have stated my feelings about this sort of thing in my past postings around the various forum threads.
In line with the answer that
@HappyMoni stated, the
best answer to those individuals that say rude and demeaning things to you or around you, is
NO ANSWER or NO COMMENT at all. As
@KatieP also intimated ..... There is nothing that you could ever say that would change their mind and/or put them in their place... and most likely any comment you make would just escalate the situation and perhaps shine a bad light on you as well.
Moni was also very right in saying:
"I would not say a word, but I would give her a stare that would burn through her head. A very long stare that would return the intense discomfort. She will get the message, and you don't have to say a word." In my earlier transition I went through the kinds of things that we are all discussing on this thread. In fact when I came out in my town after living successfully here as a full-time woman... I was the subject of a demeaning and loud conversation by a one-time friend (suitor #1) and his companion friend that took place in my nearby coffee shop. I did not have to say a word, all of my acquaintances, friends, and the employees and owner of the coffee shop came to my defense in a big way and shut them both down.
In conclusion, my reaction to rude comments and stares is to just walk away, holding my head high with a smile on my face... and NOT SAYING A WORD in response.
Thank you for your posting stating your situation and your concerns. Thank you for sharing.
Hugs and well wishes,
Danielle
Quote from: Doreen on September 04, 2018, 11:20:38 PM
I had someone today, a not so-well aged lady in her 50's, plump, leather skin, looked frankly horrible... and she kept making 'man' jokes when i was around. Specifically designed to elicit responses eluding to I assume it was me, based pretty much on our interaction. I know I wasn't reading into it, and I know she was intentionally doing it to make me uncomfortable. After about the 4th occurance of this tonight I knew I had to address her directly.
I found a chance in private, instead of creating a public drama... and she acts all wide eyed innocent, "I never knew I was doing anything to offend you" bull>-bleeped-< theatrical crap. I know what you were doing. You know very good & well what you were doing. I left it at that though, and chose to just let her express her innocence. If she rears her ugly butt again I guarantee you I will address it directly. Possibly making it public as she is. I don't like confrontation, but I will make her look like a vindictive hateful ugly bitch if I can.
So here's my irritation. I actually think I'm pretty. I'm tall, have an hourglass figure, and ya I cheated with a bit of FFS (I say a bit, because it certainly wasn't 'the works')... and as a whole am not lacking in attention from guys. Maybe she's jealous? If so then whey the stupid guy comments. I can walk in almost any room full of women and not be looked at twice. And lastly aint nothing inside our outside that even hints of XY. Unless you happen to be able to read my chromosomes, and even that has some squirrely things inside for the unwary.
Part of me feels like throttling that fat neck of hers. The other part of me feels like ripping her insides out socially by letting everyone else know what a dirt bag she is. Both responses probably are a shade dark, but that's how I feel.
Question) What would be a better response do you think?
I'm open to suggestions.
I wish you were legally allowed to choke her. Maybe make the Purge legal?
Thank you for your responses, its always curious to see how others think.
Here's the thing about ignoring problems.. they tend to escalate and the instigator gets braver in their bs. I have seen this in the past. Staring works great if you're in the time and place to do so, but most often this won't work.
Oh, I've dealt with her 'type' in the past. (Type: Loser and Jerk). Believe it or not though, DIRECT confrontation where you make very clear their behavior is unwarranted, unwanted, and will face immediate reaction has been very effective in handling this nonsense in the past.
I don't seek fights, but if someone is rearing their ugly head constantly you do need to handle it in the end.
I know of one woman that had repeatedly called me "Sam" (obviously, her guessing that was my name at one time), and she did that at every opportunity. I was nervous about confronting her, as I knew she carried a concealed handgun. One time, I had enough. I walked up to the little toad, and told her "look here, you miserable little toad. I am a woman, and my name happens to be Sarah, not Sam".
Ever since, she stayed away from me.
Had a hotel guest at the bar who every time he wanted a drink said " Bottle of Fosters, John/Mike/George/Dave etc". I took him to one side told him my name is Kim. Next time he did it I threw a Bacardi & Coke in his face. Got a final written warning but it was worth it!
Best thing to do, is walk away and just stonewall this lady. Its what I do, I always have something I can do, read a book, if I cannot walk away. People usually get the message that you don't want to interact with them, when you read a book. When you can't walk away and have to remain vigilant for some reason, just look away or even turn your back to her, but always being on your guard about your back.
Quote from: Doreen on September 04, 2018, 11:20:38 PM
I had someone today, a not so-well aged lady in her 50's, plump, leather skin, looked frankly horrible... and she kept making 'man' jokes when i was around
As the woman would have had no reason to question your gender, have you considered her jokes may have had nothing at all to do with you and your feelings are tied to your own insecurities?
Oh people can be so nasty about this stuff. I was in a situation where they knew my birth name which is obviously male. Overall it was ok, but one woman gave me very nasty looks, like her skin was crawling lol
In my head I wonder if the person is trans too sometimes, I mean she looked questionable to me especially with the snarky look on her face.
But when they're outright rude... Well for me that's very scary sometimes. I just find that I need to walk away for my own safety.
Each time it happens it makes me question so many things...
I wish I could give a big hug to anyone going through this... I know it won't take away the pain but you're seen for who you are and no one can shake your identity. You are the best version of yourself despite what others think...
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Quote from: Allison S on September 06, 2018, 08:45:20 AM
You are the best version of yourself despite what others think...
Wow, Allison. That is a GREAT line! You should create a poster with an inspiring picture to go along with that. Seriously.
I am going to try to remember to say that to myself each morning...
Kate
Quote from: KatieP on September 06, 2018, 08:50:31 AM
Wow, Allison. That is a GREAT line! You should create a poster with an inspiring picture to go along with that. Seriously.
I am going to try to remember to say that to myself each morning...
Kate
Thank you [emoji4] lol posters remind me of stressful times in school...
But I. try to remind myself because it can be hard existing while visibly and obviously transitioning. I'm not a year yet I still have a long way to go so whatever can get me to the next day works right now...
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I feel I need to explain something: I'm also an actress (mostly all improve to be honest though)... as she is as well, but sometimes the ones not actively doing the skit are in the practice 'audience'.
Every time I say a line its like she's heckling me.. I never did it to her. And every time its a rude man-reference. We'll see how this weekend goes. IF SHE DOES IT again, I am not backing up. I will single her out and embarrass the crap out of her, probably make lesbian inference. Two can play this 'game' and .. like I said in my experiences 'ignoring' them only emboldens them. Also I can't just vanish.. I am on stage. Vanishing is not an option.
Perhaps I'm insecure but she sure as hell isn't doing it to anyone else.. and frankly I am taller than all the other girls. She's being a royal ****** fill in the blanks. I'm past being bullied. I can and will strike back, and harder. If you have ever worked as a nurse you understand the bitchy backstabbing that happens behind the scenes. I usually refused to participate ... didn't mean they didn't go behind your back & make things worse for you though. You really do have to confront the troublemaker.
Quote from: Doreen on September 07, 2018, 10:09:09 AM
I feel I need to explain something: I'm also an actress (mostly all improve to be honest though)... as she is as well, but sometimes the ones not actively doing the skit are in the practice 'audience'.
Every time I say a line its like she's heckling me.. I never did it to her. And every time its a rude man-reference. We'll see how this weekend goes. IF SHE DOES IT again, I am not backing up. I will single her out and embarrass the crap out of her, probably make lesbian inference. Two can play this 'game' and .. like I said in my experiences 'ignoring' them only emboldens them. Also I can't just vanish.. I am on stage. Vanishing is not an option.
Perhaps I'm insecure but she sure as hell isn't doing it to anyone else.. and frankly I am taller than all the other girls. She's being a royal ****** fill in the blanks. I'm past being bullied. I can and will strike back, and harder. If you have ever worked as a nurse you understand the bitchy backstabbing that happens behind the scenes. I usually refused to participate ... didn't mean they didn't go behind your back & make things worse for you though. You really do have to confront the troublemaker.
Improv sounds fun! Standup comedians have all sorts of snappy comebacks for hecklers, and you could probably find some advice with a quick google search. And another way to handle the situation while avoiding a confrontation is to let the instructor know that the person was/is harassing you, and let the instructor handle it.
Yes, I do think you need to defend yourself. Maybe something along lines of self deprecating beauty or fitness humor that cuts to the bone?
Quote from: Doreen on September 07, 2018, 10:09:09 AM
I feel I need to explain something: I'm also an actress (mostly all improve to be honest though)... as she is as well, but sometimes the ones not actively doing the skit are in the practice 'audience'.
Every time I say a line its like she's heckling me.. I never did it to her. And every time its a rude man-reference. We'll see how this weekend goes. IF SHE DOES IT again, I am not backing up. I will single her out and embarrass the crap out of her, probably make lesbian inference. Two can play this 'game' and .. like I said in my experiences 'ignoring' them only emboldens them. Also I can't just vanish.. I am on stage. Vanishing is not an option.
Perhaps I'm insecure but she sure as hell isn't doing it to anyone else.. and frankly I am taller than all the other girls. She's being a royal ****** fill in the blanks. I'm past being bullied. I can and will strike back, and harder. If you have ever worked as a nurse you understand the bitchy backstabbing that happens behind the scenes. I usually refused to participate ... didn't mean they didn't go behind your back & make things worse for you though. You really do have to confront the troublemaker.
Watch children's shows, and observe how mafia diva types frame other girls who don't go along with the show. Then use the same narcissistic promqueen methods on them.
Remember, you have to fight fire with fire. Weapons are only evil if it ends in a bad result. In war, guns are used by both sides, both sides.
Quote from: Doreen on September 05, 2018, 09:47:13 AM
Here's the thing about ignoring problems.. they tend to escalate and the instigator gets braver in their bs. I have seen this in the past. Staring works great if you're in the time and place to do so, but most often this won't work.
Oh, I've dealt with her 'type' in the past. (Type: Loser and Jerk). Believe it or not though, DIRECT confrontation where you make very clear their behavior is unwarranted, unwanted, and will face immediate reaction has been very effective in handling this nonsense in the past.
I don't seek fights, but if someone is rearing their ugly head constantly you do need to handle it in the end.
I would have to disagree here. In my experience, It is ignoring the instigator that cuts far deeper than anything you could possibly say or do. After all, the instigator is trying to upset you and get attention that they think is clever, by trying to get a response out of you. Ignoring the instigator is not in any way making them braver, it is actually making them angrier and is the reason they escalate with their BS. The more one ignores this type of behavior, the angrier they get. Eventually the instigator will be seen by everyone as the true bitch they may be. It may even be possible to further irritate the instigator with a simple smile. In short, Ignoring the instigator makes them angry and responding only serves to satisfy their warped sense of being. For what it's worth, That's my two cents.
Hugs Doreen!
Donica.
Quote from: Donica on September 09, 2018, 01:45:22 PM
I would have to disagree here. In my experience, It is ignoring the instigator that cuts far deeper than anything you could possibly say or do. After all, the instigator is trying to upset you and get attention that they think is clever, by trying to get a response out of you. Ignoring the instigator is not in any way making them braver, it is actually making them angrier and is the reason they escalate with their BS. The more one ignores this type of behavior, the angrier they get. Eventually the instigator will be seen by everyone as the true bitch they may be. It may even be possible to further irritate the instigator with a simple smile. In short, Ignoring the instigator makes them angry and responding only serves to satisfy their warped sense of being. For what it's worth, That's my two cents.
Hugs Doreen!
Donica.
I would like to add that if the bully is getting positive feedback from their peers the dynamic changes, so if other people in the class are laughing or doing other things to show approval, then ignoring the bully probably won't be effective, which is why getting the instructor involved may be a good choice.
Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on September 09, 2018, 03:56:40 PM
I would like to add that if the bully is getting positive feedback from their peers the dynamic changes, so if other people in the class are laughing or doing other things to show approval, then ignoring the bully probably won't be effective, which is why getting the instructor involved may be a good choice.
I've had teachers that were about as bad as the bullies, with an exception. My bad teachers ridiculed me, abusing me psychologically. The kids that bullied, abused me physically as well as psychologically. In adult life, I am free of the school environment. If someone treats me in a way worse than I like, I have options. I am free to leave. If leaving does no good due to persistence, I have other options at my disposal.
Nobody has any right to mistreat anyone.
Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on September 09, 2018, 03:56:40 PM
I would like to add that if the bully is getting positive feedback from their peers the dynamic changes, so if other people in the class are laughing or doing other things to show approval, then ignoring the bully probably won't be effective, which is why getting the instructor involved may be a good choice.
Perhaps? But wouldn't that make everyone giving the bully positive feedback worthless bitches with a warped sense of being? I have to admit, when I was young and harassed by bullies, most of the time a good punch in the nose turn the tables, putting the bully in there place. But that still brought trouble on me in the form of law, legal or school principal. Ignoring them still pissed them off, which was funny to me. In all honesty, there isn't mush one can do when dealing with the stupid.
There is tremendous power in not having the last word...
I actually did confront the individual before the event, but I tried to not be accusatory (too much) about it. I just asked if she had a problem with me because it seemed she did by some of the comments she made. She was all "WHO ME???" and I was like, ok if there is no problem that's great :) I spent some time with her after that just to try to get to know her better.
It was effective because ever after that she's been kind and friendly. Confrontation need not be actually confrontational. There are good and bad ways to go about it, but in my experiences it almost always ends the conflict.
Of course it won't always work.. people are complex social creatures with their own agenda... but in the end most people are more interested in friendship than adversity. Sadly not everyone is that way... sometimes they'll create more drama just because they can, and you need to deal with it accordingly.
You're right Doreen. And you handled that situation really well... I'm taking notes for sure
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