Hello All! I'm brand new to this site and I'm so glad to have a safe place to discuss this somewhat foreign commonality that most of us have been more than likely blindsided by.
I'm not so much looking for answers, well maybe, but those answers I seek will come with time. I guess I'm wondering how many other people share my same views and fears.
I thought I would be okay with my fiancé's transition but the truth is I'm not. I hate it. I hate his sneakiness, I hate his lying, I hate being in the dark. I hate that I'm becoming less and less attracted to him as time goes on.
I'm a straight woman- no doubt about it- I thought love would be enough but it's not. My biggest fear is that one day the hormones are going to change his (her) attraction to women and he will be solely attracted to men- in fact I can almost feel it happening.
There is so much I don't understand and even when I ask I'm lied to. I want to be supportive yet I'm not getting any support in return- I have even asked if he ever thought for a minute about what this would do to me, if he asked his therapist for any literature about how to put himself in my shoes and understand what this could do to me- nope- not a thing- never even cared to inquire.
So do I go on being supportive or just walk away from the only man I have ever loved?
Hi BP, welcome to Susan's place! Thank you for opening up to us during this difficult time. I hope we can help you find your answers. :)
Open communication is going to be essential, but it does hurt. Things that hurt need to be talked about, not buried. That's the only way to work it out. Are you seeking counseling?
Hugs, Devlyn
Thank you!
I have not sought counseling, yet. I felt that going to counseling would make it more "real" as silly as that sounds. If I could wish this all away, believe me it would have been gone by now. I think it's inevitable that I will need counseling as I feel myself slipping further and further away from the woman I once was.
I wish that a meeting with a transgender person's SO was a requirement for all or part of their therapy and transition.
While I realize that this is a personal choice- if most have "known" since birth, but chose to suppress it and live a lie, thereby essentially destroying another person (me) then I have to say that's pretty selfish.
I fell victim to promised he made that he knew he could never keep. I fell head over heels in love with the most gorgeous man , with the most amazing voice, I have ever laid my eyes on. He promised me a life he was not equipped to give me but he knew it- I didn't. That's simply just not fair!
I've come to realize that man was just for pretend. He never existed, but that doesn't mean I don't have real feelings for him. I just want my guy back.
I watch him do the injections and I want to bawl. I feel physically ill as he does it. He told me "nothing would change ". I don't know who's the bigger fool- him for saying that or me for actually forcing myself to believe it even though I knew better....
I guess the fool is me
The LGBT clinic I go to offers free support meetings for spouses, perhaps there's one in your area. I was asking about couples counseling in my previous reply, to help establish and maintain dialogue between the two of you.
I knew nothing about being transgender until my early forties*, sometimes it isn't a lifelong thing for us.
Hugs, Devlyn
*I'll let you know about that forties thing in about eleven years. I'm 29. Dammit, I'm 29, I say! :)
Selfish? It's hardly selfish to deny who one is. It's selfish to expect someone to be who they're not.
I think therapy would be good and hopefully you'll gain some insight into what transgender is. I don't condone lying, but it can become habit from having to hide it all ones life. If your spouse goes to therapy, hopefully she will learn that lying is the wrong road to take.
One of the first things I learned in therapy was that I am not responsible for how others feel and they aren't responsible for my feelings. We all choose to feel as we do. That's probably been the biggest help for me.
I understand your anger, but it's like taking the poison and hoping the other guy dies. It's more than counterproductive, it's self destructive. I hope you get into counseling with someone that understands gender issues and also in counseling with your spouse. It'll help.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Welcome to Susan's Place.
The person we are doesn't change however we may not be the person we appear to be. This is a process of discover for us. Often couple remain together however we have seen cases where couples have been driven apart by the transition.
I second therapy and possibly couples counseling. If you are not able to come to terms with each other, then as painful as it will be, you should leave the relationship as your well being is important.
You are far from a fool. Often we know for years and have put years of thought into this. You are adjusting in months and have minimal if any knowledge about this. I am sorry this is happening to you and if there is anything I can assist you with, let me know.
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I know and I realize some people don't realize it from birth, but I asked him and he said he always knew. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to anyone, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religious belief or otherwise- honestly. I'm truly speaking for myself and my situation and the damage that it has caused me personally.
I have read so many stories and at first I solely read positive stories about how the two people found a common ground and worked through it to transition together to their new normal. I didn't want to know the negative. I didn't want to feel everyone else's hurt (I tend to take on everyone's pain) I wanted only the happy (unrealistic I know) but I tried to make sure I kept an open mind and a positive attitude for him and for us as a whole.
As time wore on though, I realized how much I was being left out of and fear overtook my quest for only allowing the positive.
I wanted so much to be the perfect SO and do everything right because I love him so- but the lies- the lies have changed it all- now I'm angry and I'm not an angry person by nature.
I'm 40 years old (I mean 29 ;) ) I'm in the prime of my life and I have just realized that I cannot be someone's crutch when they don't consider me at all- does that make sense or did I ramble?
And thank you for ending each of your replies with hugs ❤️ I appreciate that!
Some part of me fears the same thing with my spouse Broken promises if mine ever does go on hormones.
My spouse is already bi and well seems to love to flirt with guys. So your not alone in thinking that all.
Your being supportive no matter what is a good thing because in the end they likely will stay with you, however you need to be open and honest with how you feel and your concerns. You also need to let them know what your expectations are so you don't get disappointed and hurt more than you already are.
It's why I have tried my best to express my concerns and my expectations to my spouse because I would never want to lose them for someone else. As it is it will be awhile before I get used to the fact that just being married to them now makes me bi even though I'm straight too.
Quote from: Broken promises on November 02, 2017, 09:09:40 PM
Hello All! I'm brand new to this site and I'm so glad to have a safe place to discuss this somewhat foreign commonality that most of us have been more than likely blindsided by. I'm not so much looking for answers, well maybe, but those answers I seek will come with time. I guess I'm wondering how many other people share my same views and fears. I thought I would be okay with my fiancé's transition but the truth is I'm not. I hate it. I hate his sneakiness, I hate his lying, I hate being in the dark. I hate that I'm becoming less and less attracted to him as time goes on. I'm a straight woman- no doubt about it- I thought love would be enough but it's not. My biggest fear is that one day the hormoare going to change his (her) attraction to women and he will be solely attracted to men- in fact I can almost feel it happening. There is so much I don't understand and even when I ask I'm lied to. I want to be supportive yet I'm not getting any support in return- I have even asked if he ever thought for a minute about what this would do to me, if he asked his therapist for any literature about how to put himself in my shoes and understand what this could do to me- nope- not a thing- never even cared to inquire. So do I go on being supportive or just walk away from the only man I have ever loved?
Thanks, Mariah. I appreciate your advice very much! I'm just so scared. I know there's not another in this world like him, for me anyway, he was my perfect.
I've tried to explain to him that it's kind of like a period of mourning- it's like he died and I don't want to be told I can't feel a certain way about not having him anymore. And to be told "I'm still here, I'm the same person, nothing will change"... well... we all know that's not the truth. Everything changed. Everything.
I think the most significant change is intimacy. Things don't work like they used to. It's frustrating.
I know my role as a heterosexual female. I don't know my role as a lesbian. It's not something I ever considered doing (he knows that about me, I've never hidden the fact that I am a very straight female) it's not something I have ever desired, again, this is not something I kept hidden.
I don't care what other people do- to each their own, but for me, I know what I am attracted to and I never ever EVER lied about it. Now he talks about 1x, just 1x, having a sexual encounter with another MTF person because the idea of a woman with a penis turns him on. That's what he's always desired- ummmm - that's not fair. If that's what you have always desired then why be with a clearly heterosexual woman to begin with?
I know that 1x is just so he can get his feet wet in that community but hang on to me just in case it's not what he really expected or in case he's not accepted like he wishes to be. I know this.
There's no doubt about it, so why do I continue to hold on? How in the hell do you just stop loving someone and walk away, just like that, like it never happened?
Ugh! I'm so scared and confused!
I don't want to be chastised for my honest feelings- they're valid- I can't help them- they are what they are- I just need a place to talk about them and it can't be at work or with my young daughter. I just need to be able to vent and get these things off my chest before I lose my mind.
Has anyone else gone through this? How did you make it out alive and sane?
Dear scared.
I am a 70 year old woman with a medical history which happens to include a surgical reconstruction of my primary sexual characteristics. In other words l had what used to be called a sex change in 1972.
Yes, l was one of the early ones. As a consequence, l have lived my entire adult life as a woman. I have been married 4 times, my current marriage going on 17 years.
I have tried to imagine a scenario where any of my husband's came to me with something like what you have described. The truth is I could not handle it. I like men: most everything about them. So my advice would be RUN! Don't walk, run.
Talk to a counselor if you want, but understand that your fiance will not change. His needs will not change. Are you willing. to subordinate your needs to his?
My question to you is this. Do you have enough self confidence to move on by yourself and hopefully find someone more suitable to your needs?
Your honesty and willingness to see my point of view, even being transgender yourself, is beyond admirable.
You're right. I should run. I shouldn't have stayed this long. I guess I will have to throw caution to the wind and do what I (and you) know is inevitably coming. I guess the name of the game is courage from here on out.
Thank you for your honest straight forward advice- it really is appreciated.
Hi BP, as a SO, I can understand your feelings. I have sent you a PM.
It is a scary time, and your partner really does have to consider your feelings in this too. I hope you find a way to communicate through this.
I too think that couple therapy should be compulsory in this situation. In spite of what some people on here may say, he IS responsible for your feelings, and if he doesn't consider that he IS being selfish. Not a very female trait, in my opinion.
It will be a transition for you as well as for him, more traumatic for you, as you have no choices in it.
Hope you can find some sort of a way through.
Syl xxx
this thread tied my stomach up. As one just starting to express my feminine side my wife (very straight) is definitely feeling it. Up to a point I hid what I felt, no so much lie unless it is a lie by omission.
Once I decided that I had to do something I told her. I tell her what I feel, I don't try to explain .. how do you explain? I can't, telling what I feel is all I have. Asking WHY will likely give an unsatisfactory response. I know it would in my case. I encourage her to ask me anything and I answer the best that I can.
honesty and openness, a willingness to share, it's a single most important thing in any relationship.
I came out to my husband some weeks ago. We've been a couple for 19 years. Trying to be the perfect wife and mother made me depressed and suicidal. I have always known I am a guy, but denial is a powerful feeling.
I feel like I can't deny myself anymore if I want to continue my life among the living.
My husband goes through the different stages of crisis. He loves me very much and atm he sends me nice pics of our kids and other funny or nice pictures, he wants me to remember the moments. He makes breakfast and dinner. It is his reaction to this.
I love him too, I love getting breakfast in the morning. BUT it does not change the fact that I am a guy in a woman's body. My love for him or my kids won't change. But he is straight. He says he can handle me getting rid of my chest. But nothing more. He can't imagine being romantic with Tony. Because he is not gay. He fell in love with a tomboy.
He has said if I go all the way, we will still be best friends. But he can't be romantic with me. He might want a divorce. Move to his own place.
You need openess in your relationship. Nothing is tabu. No secrets. No lies. It's the only way you can get apart as friends. If you have kids in the picture this is important.
Tony
A lie of omission is still a lie and we still feel those when our spouses omit something that is important for us to know so we can keep sane and adjust as a result of your transitions. Honesty and opens is good when your willing to share everything and not omit. Just because you can't explain doesn't mean you can't try.
Quote from: NamelessOne on November 03, 2017, 07:28:04 AM
this thread tied my stomach up. As one just starting to express my feminine side my wife (very straight) is definitely feeling it. Up to a point I hid what I felt, no so much lie unless it is a lie by omission.
Once I decided that I had to do something I told her. I tell her what I feel, I don't try to explain .. how do you explain? I can't, telling what I feel is all I have. Asking WHY will likely give an unsatisfactory response. I know it would in my case. I encourage her to ask me anything and I answer the best that I can.
honesty and openness, a willingness to share, it's a single most important thing in any relationship.
Quote from: Mariah on November 03, 2017, 08:51:46 AM
A lie of omission is still a lie and we still feel those when our spouses omit something that is important for us to know so we can keep sane and adjust as a result of your transitions. Honesty and opens is good when your willing to share everything and not omit. Just because you can't explain doesn't mean you can't try.
I probably chose my words incorrectly. the 'lie by omission' was inclusive in that I was lying to myself at the time. I wasn't trying to lie to her, I was trying not to admit anything to myself. And yes, she knew I was keeping something back.
And I do try to explain, the words just don't seem to come out right. It's still all new to both of us, we're still feeling our way.
OMG- I cried reading this. You're a wonderful himan being- bottom line. Your morals and values are exemplary!
I hate to think of you hating your life though... is there a common ground so that you can express yourself too? I mean there's nothing wrong with dressing or whatever you like to do...
I hope there is some compromise that is to your benefit. It can't all be one sided. That's not fair.
Syl! Thank you! Thank you so so much! I read your message... I could figure out how to reply to you, perhaps because I'm on mobile, but at any rate, I wanted to thank you and I have taken your advice... talk to you soon! Xoxo
Actually Broken Promises the fact you don't have posts is why you can't reply yet. Once you reach 15 that feature will e unlocked.
Mariah
Quote from: Broken promises on November 03, 2017, 10:14:37 AM
Syl! Thank you! Thank you so so much! I read your message... I could figure out how to reply to you, perhaps because I'm on mobile, but at any rate, I wanted to thank you and I have taken your advice... talk to you soon! Xoxo
Welcome BP,
This is a hard place to be in. For your relationship to survive, it will take compromises from both sides and lots of open, honest communication. And both side have to be committed to doing that. And being successful in the end may not mean you both get what you want 100%. Right now, what each of you wants is at odds. It could evolve over time and come closer in alignment, or you can both decide to give a little for the sake of your marriage.
On your side, you need to know that your spouse had no choice about being transgender and was likely in denial to some degree which is different than lying to you. Also likely, a lifetime of shame about feelings that don't fit society's norm has led to hiding and lying. This can be worked through in therapy but it might help you to know why. It does not help to harbor blame. Acknowledge your anger about the situation and deal with it without blaming the situation on your spouse.
On your spouse's side, the lying and hiding will need to stop. A good therapist, preferably one who specializes in gender issues, is invaluable. You can go individually and as a couple. It can really help both you communicate better. Your spouse also needs to acknowledge you in this, which doesn't mean to not transition and do whatever you say, just as your spouse shouldn't expect you to go along with whatever they want. It means work together and take care of each other. That's how marriage works. If your spouse lived all those years as a man and presented that way to you, it is not your fault. But now you are where you are and how you deal with it is up to both of you.
Before you run, I would definitely go to counseling together and make sure your spouse understands that the lying and hiding and lack of support you feel are going to drive you away so that at least there is a chance to make amends if that's what your spouse wants. It may or may not work in the end but at least you will feel like you gave it a fair shot.
Best of luck and take care.
@bp I kinda feel you're all over the place here. I'd certainly suggest you change your handle on this forum. Yes your husband might have been presumed to be male but the fact is people change and marriage vows are about the individual, not their gender.
Also ask yourself if the reality of his being emotionally female isn't part of what attracts you.
Some sexual exploration is part of growing into being female for many of us, I explored bisexuality around the same time I first realized i was trans however I am absolutely more attracted to women and that's not changed or likely to. Also research has been quite positive showing late onset trans women are usually attracted to women both before and after transition.
No matter what age we have to address gender, it's usually a wrenching process. Also I don't view my partner as a support system it make her in any way responsible for my emotional state. If your husband is leaning on you more than you feel is appropriate, that's a disjoint problem from the fact of his transition. I would no more expect my partner to take responsibility for my stuff than fly to the moon.
[Edit]
Ok, realizing this is your fiance puts a slightly different spin on my thoughts clearly above I thought you were married. Also. I've had some sleep after 3 really hectic days so here are some more thoughts.
QuoteI wish that a meeting with a transgender person's SO was a requirement for all or part of their therapy and transition. While I realize that this is a personal choice- if most have "known" since birth, but chose to suppress it and live a lie, thereby essentially destroying another person (me) then I have to say that's pretty selfish.
That wish, I'm sorry is kinda ridiculous. I get that you're somewhere between the anger and denial stages of grief, however projecting your situation onto trans people generally seems off the mark to me. Whether addressed medically or not, being transexual is about the individual and the choice is up to the individual alone. Compare it to pregnancy: how to handle a pregnancy (including whether to abort) is the woman's choice. Sure, usually it will be discussed with their partner however under the law and firmly under any sensible ethical principles, the choices are the woman's.
Second, no person can complain that they are destroyed by another choosing what to do with their body. I'm sorry, again I can only take that statement as hyperbole.
Let me contrast to my experience, maybe put the shoe on the other foot. I was out with my partner (of now 19 years) beginning with our first date. I was relatively new to being trans (as in 3-4 months) and I daresay I knew somewhere in my heart how important it was to me so I wore lingerie under my date clothing because I felt I wanted to never address this after the fact. Our date consisted of dinner, going back to her place where I gave her her first over the knee spanking (we're both into fairly broad definitions of sex) and wound up in bed me wearing a silk thong and matching camisole.
I had no idea then that I would eventually want to transition, however having been up front from our first sexual experience, I felt kind of blindsided when, a year later I said I was considering it and was hit by a very self-centered "I'm not a lesbian" and a really strong push back. For that and other reasons I shelved transition for 16 more years and when I found myself dealing with deep depression and realized the time had come that I needed HRT and to explore GCS I wasn't surprised that I got the same push back, she acted like a hurt puppy for a couple if weeks and complained that she didn't want to be someone's support system (one consistent trait I love and hate about my SO is her stubbornness).
I found that complaint to be fairly spurious, I had weathered my deepening discontent with my body (and remaining "male" during my time away from home) solo. I hadn't bought the problem to her once as I slid into a depression for a couple of years and then battled my way out of it for a couple more because I knew pretty well what her response would be. The fact is, I'm a highly self reliant girl, it's not easy for me to lean on others, even when I should.
All that is now water under the bridge. My GF has in fact adjusted well to sex with a woman who now has a vagina that's replaced the penis she used to love and admittedly still misses. She also came to SF to help me with recovery post-op and I also relied on a couple of friends out there. If I could have physically managed that without help I would have, however I have to say needing to rely on her for a change and accept that post op I was pretty frail and battling mind numbing pain we're doses of humility that weren't bad experiences for me.
Back to you and your partner. Let go of anger and resentment; be assertive. Deal with the loss and consider what you might have to gain. Be a physicist, recognize that a glass is only empty if you pull a vacuum inside it and even then it contains space, makes reflections, etc.
Broken Promises,
I posted a response, but after rereading your post, I concluded that my comment did not address your question, so I removed it.
The question you are apparently struggling to answer is: "So do I go on being supportive or just walk away from the only man I have ever loved?"
I was under the impression that you are married, but you referred to your SO as "my fiancé", so it would seem to throw a different light on the question, at least from a legal standpoint.
Presumably you are free to walk away from this relationship, and given the strength of your objections to your fiancé's plans to transition, I have to wonder why you think it could ever work out.
It's clear that you harbor a lot of resentment toward her for reasons that are certainly understandable. It's not possible to be supportive in such a state of mind.
The fact is, "the only man you have ever loved" is not a man, and that changes everything to my way of thinking. The person you thought you knew and loved is not that person in ways that might never be acceptable to you.
You either fall in love with the real person that has been revealed to you, or severe what ties remain as cleanly and fairly as possible.
I would not invest any more of your life in a relationship that is likely to bring nothing but regret. There's no reason for you to feel obligated to pursue your relationship given the circumstances that you now face.
If you honestly think it's possible to resolve this conflict given time and counseling, then by all means seek it. Your chances of success will depend on whether each of you truly wish the best for each other. Very often, however, that means having the courage to let the other go their own way.
Quote from: Dianne H on November 03, 2017, 09:28:15 AM
Broken Promises,
I have battled this since my youth. It has made my life hell and I would like express my point of view.
First off, you are right to feel hurt and scared.
I chose to not follow through for the following reasons:
For one, the center of "selfish" is self. It is "I, I, I, me, me, me."
It took wedding vows before God and refuse to knowingly lie. When I gave those vows it was to a woman who thought I was a man and that man I shall be. If I changed my mind I would be self centered and one who lied to both wife and God.
Secondly, I have to place my wants second to the needs of the woman I married and the children I made. Part of being a Christian and a man is doing what is right even if it means hating my life.
I have hated my life since I was young but continue to go on day by day. My wife is my best friend and knows everything since I told her shortly after we were married. It would be self centered to put myself first and my wife and kids last, or not even care what they think.
If I ever did change my mind (which I won't) I would expect her to divorce me and find a man that will put her first as he should and she deserves.
If this hurts anyone I am sorry, but this is the truth. There is no way I can justify being self centered even if a therapist says otherwise. It makes no sense for me to put myself first after taking vows and she doesn't deserve to be lied to.
This is so beautifully put. As someone in a similar position, I too have surpressed my urges and feelings for the sake of my family and, in fairness, my otherwise comfortable life.
I've known from an early age that things weren't right and it took two decades of marriage for me to finally come clean to my wife.
Why did I hide it?
Firstly shame - this is not something that normal men feel or do, particularly when it involved (as it did in the early days) sexual arousal from cross dressing.
Secondly, I felt that I had been 'cured' - seeing my wife in skirts, dresses heels & makeup effectively took away the TG urges and feelings I had - for a while!
Thirdly - when it was obvious that I wasn't cured, the fear of losing her.
Yes we can try to play the 'I'm still the same person underneath' but would we accept that argument if the tables were turned and our wives who attracted us by their femininity and beauty all of a sudden announced that they intended to transition? I know I would find it very hard.
I caused unbelievable hurt to my wife and that was only my confession of cross dressing. The thought of her crying herself to sleep still upsets me several years later and she had every right to be upset. At the end of the day, the decision to transition is one we make for ourselves - it is very hard to see how it benefits anyone else and, for that reason, it is a selfish decision.
For all of you SOs reading this, you have every right to feel the way you do. If you bought a silk dress and it turned out to be polyester, you'd take it back and demand a refund. If you bought an appliance that was marketed as lasting for 10 years and it failed after 2, you'd take it back and demand a refund.
So, it's just not fair to expect you to accept your husband's revelations as if nothing had happened. Granted, opportunities for TG people are much better now than they used to be but that doesn't excuse secrecy about the issue through courtship and, sometimes, decades of marriage.
To Broken Promises, Sylvia and any other SOs reading this, I hope you can find the strength to continue talking to your husbands about this as finding an acceptable solution is in everyone's best interests. But, as someone on the other side of the fence, so to speak, this is not all about your husbands and you must consider your own lives as well.
My thoughts are with you.
AJ and Dianne, I love you both. I wish there were more like you. Thank you. I see so many, here and elsewhere, just rushing headlong into full female, with barely a thought or consideration for the others who love them.
I have to say my partner is very much taking my feelings into account, and I am trying to come to terms with a lot of things. He too would rather live with the dysphoria than lose me and his life as he knows now.
But he doesn't have it so bad, maybe if he was 'transition or die' things would be different. He is only at the stage of experimenting and expressing his female side, and I am giving him the space to do that.
I haven't yet seen him in his most female mode (he wears women's clothes, but just jeans/sweaters etc) but he plans to show me next week. All it will be is breast forms and a bit more make up I think. I'm not sure how I will react. He thinks I will laugh. I think I will cry...
We start therapy next week, hopefully that will help, as he doesn't really know yet what or who he is. He is looking for answers really, he hasn't found them yet. This both gives me hope and scares me stupid at the same time.
And before anyone objects to the pronouns, he doesn't want to be referred to as a she and doesn't have a femme name either. He did, for previous therapy, but he wasn't comfortable with it, so has dropped it.
Thanks again.
One area where I do disagree with fellow transgender people is with shifting the self centeredness to the innocent party. I'll explain.
Before we were married the pastor asked my wife how she knew she wanted to marry me.
Her answer was that she loved me, wanted to have my babies and keep my house while raising them.
Using common sense, this means she is innocent. She thought she was marrying a man to be joined to the rest of her life.
I, on the other hand battled these thoughts and emotions from my youth. When we were married I did tell her but also told her that I would not act on them because I love her and she didn't need to be betrayed. by this confession after marriage.
So who would be self centered?
If I demanded to live as I feel, it would be I who is self centered, not caring what she wants, after entering into marriage with her innocently thinking she was marrying a man. Therefore, I will continue to live as a man for my wife, my kids, my grandkids and all others who know me as a man.
I will not try to shift the self centeredness to her and say she is selfish to expect our marriage to be the man and woman which took place so many years ago. Neither do I care what a therapist thinks.
Like most, I have contemplated suicide and thought the world would be better off without me. But; I also know that wouldn't be for the best. The last thing my wife and kids need is to find me and know that I did that because I couldn't handle being who I am and who my wife married.
That was thirty years ago. Those thoughts of suicide never come anymore. I'll be married 40 years this month and at 60, why should I ruin my marriage, my wife's, children and grandchildren's lives now?
Maybe in my life, I never achieved anything great, but if staying alive and my birth sex is all I accomplish, that's enough for me.
It is written that no greater love hath a man than to give his life for his friends, wife, kids and grandkids. It is also written he that seeks to save his life will lose it, but he that loses his life shall keep it.
As far as I am concerned denying my wants and desires to live for them is doing just that.
They entered into this innocent and I plan to keep them innocent. I can not blame others for my problems or expect them to have their life turned upside down over my thoughts, desires and/or actions.
It is not fair to them.
Others may feel differently and I do not judge nor blame them. That is between them and their SO or spouse. All I know is that when it comes to me being transgender I have to put myself last; and I do that with a clear conscious.
Wonderful words, Dianne. My partner is a similar age (nearly 62) but certainly didn't have dysphoria (knowingly) when we got together. Just a vague notion that 'something' was not right. We are not married, so no vows to keep, but we are 100% committed to each other.
I wish you and your wife the very best, you sound like a wonderful, loving husband.
Sorry, Broken Promises, if we've hijacked your thread a bit. Maybe reading that there are different ways of coping with dysphoria will help you and your partner find a way.
What is love? What is marriage? What are the things that keep married people together, or drive them apart? Every married relationship undergoes change over time. Things happen that have the potential to tear two people apart. Illness, accidents, affairs, alcoholism, incarceration, death of a loved one, religious issues, and, yes, gender transition. How do couples deal with such tragic circumstances? Unfortunately, many relationships cannot stand the stresses of these and other disruptions.
When I came out to my SO after many years of marriage, I accepted the possibility that our marriage would end. I didn't want it to dissolve, but I knew the odds were stacked against us. I had no right to expect that my SO could absorb the body blow. It had nothing to do with assigning blame. I knew that I loved my wife more than anything, but I also realized that I would have to let her go if she was unable to handle the emotional trauma that my revelation caused.
Predictably my SO went through a period of shock, confusion, anger, fear, and questioning. Why is this happening? Who is this person? What should I do?
I was going through my own emotional hell. My life as I knew it was ending. Everything I'd worked for through the years was being flushed down the toilet. But, nothing meant more to me than preserving what little self-worth I had left. I had reached the point of desperation. It broke my heart to have to put my SO through the pain and sorrow of losing the love of her life. I was about to lose mine, as well.
Unselfish love is what she felt for me. Above everything else, she wanted me to be happy, and I felt the same toward her. It's why I refused to give in to my gender dysphoria for so very long, and yet, the moment had arrived at which I could no longer deny the truth of who I was. You have to experience it to understand what it's like.
We agreed that if a split was necessary, we would do so respecting the feelings and well-being of us both. There would be no blame, no guilt, no resentment. Either of us could say we wanted out at any time.
But after four years now, neither of us has made such a request. We are different people in many ways while the same in many more. We both had to decide whether we were better off together or apart, and so far we are still together. Part of the reason is that I'm a happier person today than I've ever been in my life. I'm simply an easier person to live with now. I'm free to love my partner without all the complications that living an inauthentic life created for me. In many ways I am the same person. No one could be more like the person my partner married. I fulfill many of the same roles I always did. I still love my partner as much, even more than I did before.
My SO is free of the guilt she felt for years blaming herself for my unhappiness. Knowing that my discontent was a medical condition (gender dysphoria) took a huge burden off her back. As a consequence, she, too, is a happier person. She found that accepting and supporting my transition was as much a benefit to her as it was for me.
But what about our sexual relationship? That can be an insurmountable obstacle to continuing the marriage. How does my wife handle living with another woman to whom she is not sexually attracted? How do I deal with the fact that I can no longer depend on her for physical closeness and sexual release? I don't know the answer. We are still affectionate toward each other, but sexual passion is not part of the picture anymore. Could it be the deal breaker? Yes, it could, but so far it hasn't been. Sex isn't as important to either of us as it was in our younger days.
What about the social ramifications of being seen as a same-sex couple by family, friends, and the larger community? It's often the source of terror in the mind of the cisgender spouse whose life is going to undergo unknown and potentially humiliating changes.
All these factors sum up to reveal whether or not a marriage can survive. If the answer is no, it must be accepted as the reality of your unique circumstances. There's no need to assign blame or to seek revenge. It isn't a question of who is being selfish. If it can't work, it can't work. I acknowledged that possibility the day I came out and was willing to accept the consequences. I still am, but am hopeful that we will remain together as two people who still love each other and most likely will for the remainder of our lives. We'll see.
First of all, I completely disagree with Dianne. Personal happiness and self love should always be your top priorities. Because if you don't love yourself, you can't properly love someone else, nor make them happy. Your partner is in her right to transition and find a way to live a happy life. But so are you.
I admire you for trying to continue the relationship, but it's a two-man (or woman) job. I don't aprove lying, but you have to understand that a life of hiding and lying to oneself can make a habbit. Still, honesty is an important part of any relationship, so the lies, sneaking and hiding need to stop.
Keep in mind that she will change. She will transform into her true self, and it might be a lot different from the person you knew. The man you knew wasn't a lie. In my case, it was a construction I had to make to preserve my mental sanity. Even when I knew something was wrong. The man was real, but it's going to die so that she can take the place. It's nobody's fault if her true personality doesn't match yours.
Regarding sexuality, I've heard both stories. People's sexual preferences changes after HRT, and sexuality staying exactly the same as before, so you should mentaly prepare for both cases. Also, YOUR sexuality also matters. Nobody can blame you for not being physically attracted to the woman she's becoming. You should be sincere about that.
With all that said, I can answer your question now. Should you stay or should you go? Staying takes courage of you, and hard work of both parts. If you stay, you need to be honest about your needs and feelings. Tell her the lies have to stop, go to therapy, work the nasty aspects out. It can be done. But, that doesn't mean that it will happen. Maybe she can't find a way to open up and be sincere to you. Maybe she really is selfish and doesn't care about you. What if her new personality does't match yours? As I said before, you shouldn't put anyone before yourself. Do the best you can, but if you feel that the relationship is not working, leave. You're not selfish for doing it. The third option is breaking up but continue as friends.
Quote from: Clara Kay on November 04, 2017, 04:25:54 PM
Things happen that have the potential to tear two people apart. Illness, accidents, affairs, alcoholism, incarceration, death of a loved one, religious issues, and, yes, gender transition.
But the big issue here is that, unlike all of the other things you list, gender transition follows gender dysphoria which, in almost all cases, has existed for as long as the individual can remember. We generally know by the time we reach adolescence (and usually a long time before) that things don't feel right, and yet we bury those feelings and commit ourselves to others via marriage and having children.
How much effort would it take to discuss our struggles to our SOs in an early stage of the relationship? Yes it's a brave step but a lot less brave than having to do it decades into marriage and possibly lose everything as a result. What particularly hurt my wife was the realization of deceit and, in my case, the confession was only to cross-dressing rather than intention to transition.
Quote from: Lady Lisandra on November 05, 2017, 01:44:27 AM
Personal happiness and self love should always be your top priorities. Because if you don't love yourself, you can't properly love someone else, nor make them happy.
To a point, yes but not if it breaches trust - for example is having an extramarital affair with a work colleague acceptable if it makes you happy and love yourself? Clearly not. At the end of the day, none of us chooses to have GD but everything we do thereafter is a choice - transition or not transition, disclose to future spouse or keep quiet - but we have to take responsibility for our actions and for their consequences and, fundamentally, consider our spouse's point of view as well as our own.
Quote from: Lady Lisandra on November 05, 2017, 01:44:27 AM
First of all, I completely disagree with Dianne. Personal happiness and self love should always be your top priorities. Because if you don't love yourself, you can't properly love someone else, nor make them happy. Your partner is in her right to transition and find a way to live a happy life. But so are you.
As I said before, you shouldn't put anyone before yourself. Do the best you can, but if you feel that the relationship is not working, leave. You're not selfish for doing it. The third option is breaking up but continue as friends.
If we are all honest, we can look back at our life in childhood and in the workforce and see this isn't right.
The child who loved self rather than others was the greedy kid who had to be the center of attention, have the best of everything and think they were more important than others. It's the "I, I, I, me, me, me" mindset. Those kids generally only cared about themselves. They seemed to always have to have things their way.
Even in the workforce we knew people who always placed self above everyone else. It didn't matter what happened as long as they got their way.
In circumstances in both childhood and as an adult we see that most who placed their happiness or gain before others were basically spoiled and didn't love others. They loved self.
When a person loves others they can do so while hating their life. That doesn't stop them from loving spouse, or neighbor or family. We all can see that if we choose to look at our life with an open mind and accept the truth rather than what we want.
As I said, I respectfully disagree. Events in our lives prove that if we just look back. Those who love self are all around us. They're the co worker who would stab us in the back for a better position at work, the man or woman who has an affair, those who break agreements without reason for their own gain or pleasure.
In each case the self centered attitude takes no thought for how others feel and the individual only looks out for number 1. They'll justify it every step of the way.
"What's in it for me" is that which we see the most. I'm not trying to anger anyone but being self centered can ruin the lives of all around a person with such a mindset.
I think we all know that to love others is placing one's self second.
Self sacrifice and admiration or self centered and selfish..... Are those really the only choices when one finally comes to terms with their internal identity struggle ........particularly when actions to resolve the conflict will impact others?
That seems to be the theme of some of the replies to the OP on this very difficult and undoubtedly common life scenario.
I don't usually insert my opinion in matters that don't directly involve or affect me unless asked, but...... Advice that contains opinions that are presented as absolutes in a forum like ours makes me bristle. As with the gender spectrum, I submit that the choices are not binary.
Those who believe that "concern with one's own well being" (see Ayn Rand) should/must be sacrificed (sublimated?) for anothers benefit are certainly entitled to take a path that supports that belief. But where is the line drawn?
Who decides what is selfish in the negative sense? Does it apply only in cases of multi year marriages with kids involved? Or should one continue to deny/repress their biological need when parents and siblings are impacted? How about when friends might have great difficulty accepting a potential transition?
The answer is...... All the above and none of the above. It's a very personal decision that can ONLY be made by the conflicted individual who must decide on the path that is right for them and their unique situation. Offering advice to someone that suggests the "best path" is presumptuous at best. Certainly offer a point of view but remember that's what it is....... YOUR point of view.
And for those who believe it important to resolve their gender incongruity and resulting dysphoria in a manner that enables them to live an authentic and fulfilling life despite potential negative fallout, your approach is no less valid. This path doesn't require a disregard for others feelings or trivializing potential negative impact. How should the conflicted person balance their needs when making decisions about how to proceed? An implication that this approach is selfish or self centered may OR MAY NOT be accurate and, again, depends entirely on one's point of view.
While I have my own opinion on this issue, I think I could present a convincing case for either side. While there is no right or wrong, it's probably a good idea to keep in mind that there are different yet valid opinions when offering advice on very personal and serious issues like this.
To the OP: Your fiance's revelation was undoubtedly a significant emotional experience. it's not a one way street. You have control over your own path unless you choose to give it up. Many in such circumstances find it helpful to establish their own boundaries and limitations as the framework for making life altering decisions.
Quote from: Dianne H on November 05, 2017, 04:36:51 AM
If we are all honest, we can look back at our life in childhood and in the workforce and see this isn't right.
The child who loved self rather than others was the greedy kid who had to be the center of attention, have the best of everything and think they were more important than others. It's the "I, I, I, me, me, me" mindset. Those kids generally only cared about themselves. They seemed to always have to have things their way.
Even in the workforce we knew people who always placed self above everyone else. It didn't matter what happened as long as they got their way.
In circumstances in both childhood and as an adult we see that most who placed their happiness or gain before others were basically spoiled and didn't love others. They loved self.
When a person loves others they can do so while hating their life. That doesn't stop them from loving spouse, or neighbor or family. We all can see that if we choose to look at our life with an open mind and accept the truth rather than what we want.
As I said, I respectfully disagree. Events in our lives prove that if we just look back. Those who love self are all around us. They're the co worker who would stab us in the back for a better position at work, the man or woman who has an affair, those who break agreements without reason for their own gain or pleasure.
In each case the self centered attitude takes no thought for how others feel and the individual only looks out for number 1. They'll justify it every step of the way.
"What's in it for me" is that which we see the most. I'm not trying to anger anyone but being self centered can ruin the lives of all around a person with such a mindset.
I think we all know that to love others is placing one's self second.
There's a difference between loving oneself and being selfish, self-Centered and narcissistic. It's just as as bad or worse for others to demand sacrifice and even altruism. People that learn to love themselves, imperfections and all, tend to live authentically. That's the whole point. Be who you really are.
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Gertrude,
Really, when it's all said and done, there isn't a one size fits all answer.
People will do what they want and what worked for me may not work for them.
My decisions were based upon my convictions and the gospel. Not all look at things alike. The main thing is that they think about it from every angle before making a decision.
Unless things have changed since I last read, the operation is not reversible. Therefore, they may wish to choose after studying the issue from every angle imaginable.
Have a good day.
Mod hat on :police:
For those responding in this thread please remember this is the SO section so please be respectful of that because us SO's do need a safe place to get help and support while being able to be able to vent about what is going on too.
Mod hat off.
To add to the confusion, my philosophy on this is that once married it is for life and that the singular "I" no longer exists but is replaced by the plural "I". My marriage vows, which I took seriously lay it out pretty plainly.
QuoteI. take thee. to my wedded Wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth.
I. take thee. to my wedded Husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I give thee my troth.
Both partners need to compromise to work through this and either one demanding complete surrender to their desires from the other is being self centered and selfish. The only solution is open honesty and finding the solution that works for both. It may be that neither partner is completely happy with that answer but it's one they can live with. Whatever each might lose in this they in fact gain in their love and their giving.
To the OP. You're not married yet so you do have freedom to do whatever you want. If you do go through with the marriage you know what you are getting so be certain you can live up to the vow you will take.
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I agree with Trish. There are so many different ways of dealing with dysphoria. Some people do choose to 'sacrifice' themselves and do nothing. At the other extreme, others go right into transition as quickly as possible, without a thought for the others around them. And there are many many other options in between. We can't say what is the 'correct' way.
And yes, there is a difference between being 'self-centred/selfish' and thinking of your own needs. I have come across a lot of people on various sites, not necessarily on here, who are on the self-centred side. I think it also makes a difference how strong the dysphoria is.
If my partner was someone who had struggled with it since childhood and had always known he was a girl, I may have had a different stance. As I think he would. At the moment, he doesn't yet know what or who he is and he has no desire to 'completely' transition. He wants to try low dose hormones, and that is the big stumbling block for us. It may always be. We are going to therapy. He needs answers, I need solutions and coping mechanisms.
We can't always get what we want, as the Rolling Stones once said. My 'authentic self' is a slim gorgeous 25 year old girl but that isn't going to happen....
Sometimes we just have to accept our lot in life.
And I really admire both people like AJ and Dianne, who have put those they love before themselves, and those who have risked (and in many cases lost) everything to reach what they need. Equally.
Eight years since I dropped the T-Bomb and my wife is still feeling betrayed, and "The Lies". The ironic part is she also knew from Day 1 (some 40 years ago) I had gender issues and settled on being a CD. I often think an SO has a harder time dealing with this since they have had mere milli-Seconds in comparison to process the GD vs us having spent the better part of a lifetime to barely get a handle on it.
You saw your entire world view turned on it's head. All the hopes, wishes and dreams you had for a shared future suddenly and unilaterally redefined. Like Devlyn said the often very hard honest and open discussions are key. Oh, and compromise by both parties.
It is obvious you are still in the Shock & Awe phase barely processing all that just happened. Perhaps also there is a case of "Full Speed Ahead" your SO is taking now that they dropped the T-Bomb, the Earth did not open up and swallow them, a bolt of lightning did not vaporize them, or a direct meteor strike up the top of the head.
The relationship has to work both ways. You cannot be expected just to go along with this major change and the total unknown and scary changes ahead. Plus all the "Complications" with friends, family, work, etc. with being the partner of a trans person.
One of my wife's favorite lines is to quote the song "What's Love Got To Do With It". Yes, love is a powerful force and has helped to keep my wife and I together. But it is also not the end all, be all. We both tend to value the other's happiness over our own.
I know how much of what I have done, and am doing, hurts her. She no longer sees me as a husband, yet relies on me to exert my male privileged. (I still live and present primarily as male) Though HRT may have altered my body in ways that upsets her, it has also altered my mind and brought me peace. A benefit for her as well as me.
We were on shaky grounds before I dropped the T-Bomb. Now we love each other more then ever before I think. Even with sex no longer being there. In fighting the Trans-Beast I lost a ton of shame & guilt that ruled my life.
Today about the only guilt I harbor is rightfully mine. The guilt I feel about hurting the most important person in the world to me.
Quote from: Dianne H on November 05, 2017, 08:22:02 AM
Gertrude,
Really, when it's all said and done, there isn't a one size fits all answer.
People will do what they want and what worked for me may not work for them.
My decisions were based upon my convictions and the gospel. Not all look at things alike. The main thing is that they think about it from every angle before making a decision.
Unless things have changed since I last read, the operation is not reversible. Therefore, they may wish to choose after studying the issue from every angle imaginable.
Have a good day.
Not sure who you're addressing as your answer doesn't fit my comment.
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There is an exceptional source of information on gender identity issues from Ann Vitale, a Ph.D who has extensive experience with the transgender community in a therapeutic setting. I offer this in hopes it'll help SO's in particlar who seek greater knowledge and understanding of the gender identity conflict and resulting dysphoria.
Check the site - www.avitale.com - for a collection of free essays on various topics based on almost 40 years of work with transgender individuals. She also has a book available entitled " The Transgendered Self" that I found helpful.
I sincerely hope this information provides solace to those who've found themselves trying cope with the challenges, fears and disappointment that accompany an unexpected "I think I'm transgender" revelation.
Hi BP, another SO checking in. Just wanted to say that this is hard. I feel you.
Thank you for checking in on me! I hope you're doing as well as can be expected- It is hard.
My mind is all over the place, my thoughts uncollected, my emotions definitely not in check. I'm very confused although I'm not one bit confused about transgender- as odd as that sounds- I've done so much research on it so that I could be prepared and be supportive.
I was prepared for the dysphoria, the 2nd puberty, etc. what I wasn't prepared for was no dysphoria- never- not one bit. I wasn't prepared for dressing like birth gender until certain people are around (and I'm not) and hiding the other clothes from me or waiting until I left to "dress for other people".
I wasn't prepared for the live porn sites and only getting on them when I'm not around. I wasn't prepared for any of this because I was told "nothing would change, he would still be the same person" but everything did change. It's not lining up.
I have educated myself, as much as I possibly can, but nothing about being transgender has surfaced. It really seems to be more about "promiscuity and becoming a sexual flirtatious woman" than it does about being transgender and finding oneself. It seems more about growing breasts and being desired than anything.
So yeah, I'm confused. I realize that most people want to categorize the SO as "needing to understand " or needing to keep an open mind but I caution everyone not to put each person in a "bucket". I won't fit in any of those buckets. I get it and I love him so much that I want him to be happy and feel free of the chains and mentalBlock and whatever else is holding him back. I want him to be truly happy even if that means we aren't together, but he needs someone that knows him to be there when the going gets tough and things don't make sense, and that loves him unconditionally.
What most people aren't understanding is that I'm being left out of major decisions. I'm being left in the dark about everything even though I am the person that finally made him feel loved enough and supported enough to finally come out. He's him until I'm gone for the day and then he is she depending on who will be there that night. I'm not told about appointments or what happened at appointments or what to expect at the next one, even though I ask, even though I am involved, even though " I am the best thing that's ever happened to him" - his words, not mine.
It doesn't make sense. None of this makes sense and I am not only confused but alone and in the dark. We should be going through this together but instead I go through it alone and can't talk to him because he'll say then "don't be with me" which is a very selfish response. So when I say he's selfish- guess what- he's selfish!
I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. These are my thoughts. This is what I am left to sort out in my head each and every day. I know there have to be other SOs that feel a similar way- left out, confused, scared without anyone to talk to because no one understands. And on the flip side there may be transgender individuals who don't realize they're doing this to their SO and maybe the can gain some insight from my situation to better theirs. Either way it's a win if someone is helped even if that someone isn't me.
I really appreciate you checking in on me, like more than you know. I have tried to keep a smile on my face and act like everything is great- outwardly- but inside I'm a mess. As you can see I'm left to my own devices to make sense of it in my head- I'm obviously failing- maybe all of this is normal behavior- maybe it's not, but how will I know if I don't put it out there? I just want to say again that I appreciate you ❤️
Hi BP
In the face of what you have just described I think you are doing an astounding job of hanging in there. I have been married for a long time and one of the things that became clear to me immediately was that complete honesty with my wife was paramount. The behaviour you describe would worry me and I understand your point of having done a lot of research.
QuoteI realize that most people want to categorize the SO as "needing to understand " or needing to keep an open mind but I caution everyone not to put each person in a "bucket". I won't fit in any of those buckets. I get it and I love him so much that I want him to be happy and feel free of the chains and mentalBlock and whatever else is holding him back. I want him to be truly happy even if that means we aren't together, but he needs someone that knows him to be there when the going gets tough and things don't make sense, and that loves him unconditionally.
I think you understand plenty and are being incredibly generous and caring with your partner. Maybe a reality check is needed so you are not left feeling the way you are. Both of you are going through this not just your partner on their own and they need to recognise the incredible support part you play along with the fact you love him and he is hurting you. I hope you are able to sort this out as you clearly love your partner greatly.
Take care
Liz
Quote from: Broken promises on November 06, 2017, 07:09:53 PM
Thank you for checking in on me! I hope you're doing as well as can be expected- It is hard.
My mind is all over the place, my thoughts uncollected, my emotions definitely not in check. I'm very confused although I'm not one bit confused about transgender- as odd as that sounds- I've done so much research on it so that I could be prepared and be supportive.
I was prepared for the dysphoria, the 2nd puberty, etc. what I wasn't prepared for was no dysphoria- never- not one bit. I wasn't prepared for dressing like birth gender until certain people are around (and I'm not) and hiding the other clothes from me or waiting until I left to "dress for other people".
I wasn't prepared for the live porn sites and only getting on them when I'm not around. I wasn't prepared for any of this because I was told "nothing would change, he would still be the same person" but everything did change. It's not lining up.
I have educated myself, as much as I possibly can, but nothing about being transgender has surfaced. It really seems to be more about "promiscuity and becoming a sexual flirtatious woman" than it does about being transgender and finding oneself. It seems more about growing breasts and being desired than anything.
So yeah, I'm confused. I realize that most people want to categorize the SO as "needing to understand " or needing to keep an open mind but I caution everyone not to put each person in a "bucket". I won't fit in any of those buckets. I get it and I love him so much that I want him to be happy and feel free of the chains and mentalBlock and whatever else is holding him back. I want him to be truly happy even if that means we aren't together, but he needs someone that knows him to be there when the going gets tough and things don't make sense, and that loves him unconditionally.
What most people aren't understanding is that I'm being left out of major decisions. I'm being left in the dark about everything even though I am the person that finally made him feel loved enough and supported enough to finally come out. He's him until I'm gone for the day and then he is she depending on who will be there that night. I'm not told about appointments or what happened at appointments or what to expect at the next one, even though I ask, even though I am involved, even though " I am the best thing that's ever happened to him" - his words, not mine.
It doesn't make sense. None of this makes sense and I am not only confused but alone and in the dark. We should be going through this together but instead I go through it alone and can't talk to him because he'll say then "don't be with me" which is a very selfish response. So when I say he's selfish- guess what- he's selfish!
I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. These are my thoughts. This is what I am left to sort out in my head each and every day. I know there have to be other SOs that feel a similar way- left out, confused, scared without anyone to talk to because no one understands. And on the flip side there may be transgender individuals who don't realize they're doing this to their SO and maybe the can gain some insight from my situation to better theirs. Either way it's a win if someone is helped even if that someone isn't me.
I really appreciate you checking in on me, like more than you know. I have tried to keep a smile on my face and act like everything is great- outwardly- but inside I'm a mess. As you can see I'm left to my own devices to make sense of it in my head- I'm obviously failing- maybe all of this is normal behavior- maybe it's not, but how will I know if I don't put it out there? I just want to say again that I appreciate you ❤️
I hate quoting entire long posts but there is nothing in yours to shorten. I find the behavior that you're describing as abhorrent. I don't care about sex, gender, hormones, or any other excuse thrown in. No one should treat you the way you're being treated. I hope she wakes up and realizes how good things are and starts making amends. I speak from experience. I used to be similar, sad to say, then one day I looked in the mirror and saw who I was. I am working towards being a better person now while at the same time coming to grips with my own girl inside.
Hang in there and remember, there are people here willing to help you.
OH BP, I really feel for you. I seem to come across this quite a lot. The transitioning partner thinking their spouse is being wonderful and supportive, when inside we are IN PIECES. Telling them we want them to be happy and will support them in their journey, while hiding the utter mental turmoil we are going through. I do think a lot of partners just don't get it, or don't see it.
I don't think your partner is behaving well in this, and you are being amazing. It's great that you have educated yourself so much about about dysphoria and gender issues - as I have too. I think I know more than he does! But as others have said, the key to keeping a relationship as intact as it can be is COMMUNICATION and SHARING.
I hope for both your sakes, he opens his eyes and sees how much damage he is causing you and your relationship, which will ultimately be damage to him/herself. If he/she loves you and wants you to stay, things have to change.
Keep posting, you have my support.
BP, the detail added in your last post alters the context of your situation at least for me. The changes you've described in you're fiance's sexual interests may or may not be commonplace in the transgender community...... I'm not qualified to comment on that and won't presume to place a moral judgement on such behavior. Whether that change is permanent or just a (passing?) phase is hard to know with certainty and it's doubtful your fiancé knows at this point in her transition. But if she proceeds with her transition it is certain the guy you fell in love with will be replaced by a woman. How do you truly feel about that for a start?
If you could make the transgender part of the equation disappear you'd still be left with lies, deceit, self absorption and other behavior that most would NEVER consider acceptable in a friend let alone a potential life mate. Now add to that the prospect of living your life married to another woman and all that implies
Coming to terms with transgender conflict and related dysphoria per se is one thing but this seems to be more about the character (or lack thereof) of the person you fell in love with. My advice is listen to your gut.....you've made it crystal clear this behavior seriously crosses the line for you as it surely would with all loving, caring and considerate human beings. You are entitled to establish your own boundaries and limitations and decide if and when you're willing to compromise them in any way. Taking a hard line on compromise in these fundamentals in no way diminishes your character, compassion or humanity.
I cannot magine how hard this is for you and your daughter but you surely know the higher price you'll pay later if you listen to your heart rather than your instincts.
May God grant you the strength to accept things you can't change, to change the things you can and the wisdom to know the difference.
Quote from: trish33455 on November 07, 2017, 09:13:10 AM
BP, the detail added in your last post alters the context of your situation at least for me. The changes you've described in you're fiance's sexual interests may or may not be commonplace in the transgender community...... I'm not qualified to comment on that and won't presume to place a moral judgement on such behavior. Whether that change is permanent or just a (passing?) phase is hard to know with certainty and it's doubtful your fiancé knows at this point in her transition. But if she proceeds with her transition it is certain the guy you fell in love with will be replaced by a woman. How do you truly feel about that for a start?
If you could make the transgender part of the equation disappear you'd still be left with lies, deceit, self absorption and other behavior that most would NEVER consider acceptable in a friend let alone a potential life mate. Now add to that the prospect of living your life married to another woman and all that implies
Coming to terms with transgender conflict and related dysphoria per se is one thing but this seems to be more about the character (or lack thereof) of the person you fell in love with. My advice is listen to your gut.....you've made it crystal clear this behavior seriously crosses the line for you as it surely would with all loving, caring and considerate human beings. You are entitled to establish your own boundaries and limitations and decide if and when you're willing to compromise them in any way. Taking a hard line on compromise in these fundamentals in no way diminishes your character, compassion or humanity.
I cannot magine how hard this is for you and your daughter but you surely know the higher price you'll pay later if you listen to your heart rather than your instincts.
May God grant you the strength to accept things you can't change, to change the things you can and the wisdom to know the difference.
I don't think one can separate the two. Had he not been transgender, this wouldn't have happened. I would bet a lot of trans people are dishonest about it because of the consequences. We learn from a young age to hide who we are and that's a form of dishonesty. The shame from all this can lead to secretive behavior, which feeds the shame. I don't this person, but they'd probably benefit from therapy. The other thing not mentioned here is we are hearing only one side. There's three sides: his side, her side and the truth.
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Whether a person is straight, gay, transgender or cisgender, perversion is perversion and lies are lies.
Some of what she describes doesn't fit being transgender, but just plain sexually perverted, regardless of sexual orientation or identification.
He may have his side as well, but if this part is true, it's going to be a one sided love at best. That seldom lasts.
Making excuses for such behavior isn't one bit helpful.
I'm not making excuses, just laying down some facts. I don't know about sexual perversions, maybe I missed it, but I'd bet all of us have lied about ourselves at one time or another because we are trans and more importantly, we're hearing just one side. Like I said, there are three sides to every story.
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:police:
Maybe that is true, but please remember that this is the SO section and respect our need to vent and share our side of the story even if that means it lacks our trans spouse's side of the story. :police:
This section is here to serve us SO's and many other sections are devoted to the trans side of the story and supporting those needs where as this section is devoted to supporting us SO's and our needs.
Please remember, this is the board description for the Significant Others section:
A place for support of the family (parents, siblings and/or children) and intimate partners of trans* people. Please respect that this is an area for SO (Significant Others) only.
These are the guidelines for posting in this section:
Quote from: Susan on May 23, 2005, 11:36:10 PM
This forum is primarily intended as a place Significant others can go to in order to seek support from each other. While I do not block the posting by the transgendered I would ask that as much as possible you respect this as a separate area for them. If they have a question and you can answer it in a neutral manner feel free to respond. This is a place for facts and good information and not for advocacy.
Hugs, Devlyn
If he's into porn, he needs more help than just being trans
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:police: :police:
This has been said by two other staff members and I shall repeat for the final time.
This section is for SO's. Helpful discussion for SO's is welcome. Judgmental comments from non-SO's are not.
I do and shall give wide leniency to SO's, other members will follow the ToS and any bashing, insults or argumentative comment will be dealt with.
I do not see how name calling or suggesting someone has deviant behaviour is in the least supportive for an SO while discussing their partner. It is up for the SO to make their judgement not for you.
I have removed some posts. If there is any repeat I shall be removing more than posts.
Cindy
BP,
I tried rereading to answer this question, but, have you stood up for yourself to your spouse and stated how you feel and demanded some level of consideration.
I know it is important to my husband (who still uses male pronouns) to be close. When I felt like he was hiding things from me, our therapist told me to tell him that it creates distance between us and as he realized that, it helped him stop. Part of it was just even recognizing that he was doing it. The therapist blamed THAT on internalized transphobia.
We've come a long way since addressing this in our relationship. I know others have mentioned this already, but if you are having that much trouble communicating, a therapist can be invaluable. If your spouse doesn't want to go, go by yourself first and gradually insist on going together.
This is going to be overwhelming even in the best case scenario, but if you throw lots of complications into it and try to deal with them all at the same time, it will be even worse!
Take it one step at a time, and find someone to help you do that if you can.
Best of luck!
Also, thank you moderators for keeping this space more welcoming to SOs.
We are always glad to help and as SO I know how important it is that we get share we are going through as a result of their transitions while being able to safe doing so.
Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: gallinarosa on November 08, 2017, 07:44:16 AM
Also, thank you moderators for keeping this space more welcoming to SOs.
BP, your comment "He says I'm the best thing that has ever happened to him" really stuck out to me---this is something my spouse says as well. I don't really feel like I'm the best thing that ever happened him. I just feel like a footnote.
I'm not sure what else to say. There seems to be a lot going on with your partner. Please remember to take care of yourself. *hugs*
Just a little update- I found out he's on a transgender dating site. I found out he's been using live stream chaturbate. I heard actual audio recording of the chaturbate with him making lewd comments and noises involving another person's penis (not the actual word that was used)- requesting that person to be inside him.
Ugh! I was so disgusted that I couldn't look him in the face (but no, I did not admit that I knew these things). He noticed my change in demeanor and said stop acting so secretive and weird and if you don't want to be with me there are lots of other people that do.
That was enough for me to hear.
Quote from: Broken promises on November 11, 2017, 01:18:42 PM
Just a little update- I found out he's on a transgender dating site. I found out he's been using live stream chaturbate. I heard actual audio recording of the chaturbate with him making lewd comments and noises involving another person's penis (not the actual word that was used)- requesting that person to be inside him. Ugh! I was so disgusted that I couldn't look him in the face (but no, I did not admit that I knew these things). He noticed my change in demeanor and said stop acting so secretive and weird and if you don't want to be with me there are lots of other people that do. That was enough for me to hear.
Wow. I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I consider that cheating and I know how hurtful it can be. I think that even if you want to leave your partner, you guys deserve to have this conversation, and ask about those things you found. Maybe you can work things out. If not, at least you know where you stand and what your partners expectations and intentions are.
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BP, I am so sorry it turned out this way.
Therapy, can't recommend it enough!
Quote from: Broken promises on November 11, 2017, 01:18:42 PM
Just a little update- I found out he's on a transgender dating site. I found out he's been using live stream chaturbate. I heard actual audio recording of the chaturbate with him making lewd comments and noises involving another person's penis (not the actual word that was used)- requesting that person to be inside him.
Ugh! I was so disgusted that I couldn't look him in the face (but no, I did not admit that I knew these things). He noticed my change in demeanor and said stop acting so secretive and weird and if you don't want to be with me there are lots of other people that do.
That was enough for me to hear.
I think you are doing remarkably well considering everything you have shared with us. I see a suggestion of therapy has been made by Cora and hopefully this may help but only if your partner is prepared to be honest. I don't see going behind your back and using a site such as you describe is even remotely thinking about you and your needs which seem to have been entirely overlooked in this situation.
I hope you can find a way through this but I do think you need his co-operation if it is to be a positive outcome for you both.
I am sorry this is happening to you! I am glad you can share here and feel free to express your emotions. It's hard for them sure, but it is hard for us...in a different way. We are expected to not only put up with out partners change and the impact on our relationship etc, but also others and the way they interact with our partner. They say that fro every trans spouse that comes out of the closet the cis partner goes in and I never really understood that until it actually impacted my life. Eli is now set up for top surgery and I find myself trying to deal with emotions that I had thought were put to bed already. The consult is in a few weeks and I know hat I will be very sad and stuff afterwards, even though I will not love Eli any less than I do now and we are both commited to our relationship. I am Queer and darn it all! I will MISS those breasts....I try not to expound around them because they appologize and it does me pain as well to hear them appoligize for wanting to be who they are both inside and out. Trans and NB partners have accepted themselves mostly before telling us in most cases, but we have to work through accepting that. There is not any shame in that and take the time you need. As for your partner liking males now...do you ever watch male actors and find them sexy and attractive? This does not change your orientation at all...maybe your partner is going through this as well???
Broken Promoises,
While I can truly appreciate where you are coming form, and I really do feel for you, I have one question for you:
Whatever question you ask him, how do you know he is lying? How do you know he is lying when he answers each of your questions? Perhaps he is telling the truth? Perhaps he is telling the truth to some of your questions, and not others? Perhaps he is not ready to admit the truth to himself, let alone to anybody else?
While it may hurt you, and it should hurt, and don't let me or anyone else tell you differently, whatever he is going through is in no easy a reflection on you. We all perceive the truth as what we are willing to accept at the moment we ask the question and are presented the answer.
I wish you the best.
I still feel the point of this is he is married, and should be faithful. He is lying, he is emotionally cheating and she should not be made to feel she should put up with it. I honestly believe that being trans does NOT excuse this type of behavior. Many make make excuses for it, but it is NOT appropriate.
He should ask for a divorce, if he cannot remain faithful....I say this because I was in a marriage for 16 years, and finally came out as Gay. I did not cheat, I did not lie, I handled it like an adult should and asked for a divorce. I NEEDED to be me. My mate wanted to stay married and have an open marriage which we both agreed to and tried for a bit, we did end up divorced however in the end. I fell in love with a woman(who is NB by the way) and ended up leaving for them. They are now undergoing top surgery.(yay!) I really get tired of excuses afforded those who are trans or gay. Yeah, we have to be who we are, but ya know what? Our struggle does NOT give us the right to destroy others because "we are in search of ourselves". Period.