Hey guys and dolls,
I need a passport. What do I need to know or do about it in regards to my gender?
Thanks.
If the Social Security Administration says you are male, then the federal government recognizes you as male and you will be male on your passport. If you haven't already, go to the SSA office with your surgery letter and have your gender marker changed. I think for FTMs, top surgery qualifies you as male for SSA.
I will now shut up (rare for me ::)) and leave the floor open to someone who knows what they are talking about...
- Kate
I personally do not know but I suspect that Chatterbox, ah Kate is correct. And if I remember correctly you are a male according to the SSA. So your passport will say male.
Has to poke Kate. ;D :icon_poke:
Nero, do you already have a passport under your old name and gender? If not, and if this is your first passport and you've had your birth certificate changed--name and sex both--you can use that as your primary identification. In that case, I don't think you need to worry about documenting your name change or gender marker change. Don't quote me on that, but it should be the case. However, if it isn't, you'll need to document both the name change and the sex change. For the sex change, a court order or the right surgeon's letter ("SRS completed") is supposed to be adequate.
The State Department still does not have anything about sex change on their passport site, but the Transgender Law Center has some good recent info. You should also be able to Google it--look for Passport Bulletin 92-22. You can also drop the TLC an e-mail and see what they say.
And when I was investigating passport info, I used the toll-free number to talk to a live person. It's 1-877-487-2778. I advise you to call on two separate occasions and talk to two different people. Write down the person's name each time. If both people give you the same info, you're probably okay.
You'll need a certified copy of your birth certificate (doesn't matter if you didn't change it), your DL, your name change documentation (certified copy), and your surgeon's letter (a copy). They will take all of that along with your passport application.
It was pretty painless and they send you your documentation back.
The process may be slightly different if you have a passport already under your F name. My old F passport expired almost 30 yrs ago and was lost, so they processed it as a new application.
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on April 10, 2010, 07:46:54 AM
It was pretty painless and they send you your documentation back.
The process may be slightly different if you have a passport already under your F name. My old F passport expired almost 30 yrs ago and was lost, so they processed it as a new application.
Jay, did you do yours in person or by mail? I was under the impression (and the guy I talked to on the phone verified this) that if you do it in person, they don't keep your documents at all; they give them back to you before you leave the office.
Hmm. I think they may have tightened up their procedures since you did yours. Nowadays, at least, you have to apply in person if it's your first passport or if the old one was issued that long ago. (As a matter of fact, I was under the impression that you always had to apply in person the first time, but I'm going on old childhood memories here.)
I'm stuck with going in person because when changed my name (pre-9/11), I did the common usage method, which is not considered "legally documentable." And I still haven't figured out how to parlay my common use change into a court-ordered change without incorrectly declaring that I was using my birth name for all those years, which I wasn't. Guess I'll have to do some more digging...
I did mine last August I think?
They sent all the paperwork in with my application and then they sent it back separately from the passport.
I did it in person, because they took the passport photos there too, so it was a one stop thing. I don't remember it being a requirement, but maybe I didn't pay close attention since the passport place is a mile from my house and very convenient.
Arch, don't you have any legal documentation of your name change? I put personal reasons on mine but that doesn't show up anywhere on the name change document. I know others put common usage there as well. Probably varies by state, as usual.
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on April 10, 2010, 04:09:27 PM
Arch, don't you have any legal documentation of your name change?
I have documentation, but it's not sufficiently "legal" in that my change did not go through a public institution like a court or the county recorder (as with a marital name change). So I do have to go in person, but all I have to do is provide several forms of public documents to show that I've used the name for at least five years. In addition to my notarized name change statement, I can provide ample evidence, all more than five years old. I have some old school transcripts (from two different schools), my Social Security record, state and federal tax forms, a marriage certificate, and a bunch of old driver's licenses that I held onto for some twisted reason (now I'm glad I did).
I don't mind so much the idea of applying for the new passport in person because that way I don't have to worry that the original documents might get lost. It's a pain in the ass for sure because I have to drive to another city, but I figure I'll just make a day of it. It's about a two-and-a-half or three-hour drive these days, one way, if you go at the right time. (Afternoon/evening traffic is horrendous. Sometimes it's slow-and-go for an hour if you arrive or leave at the wrong time.)
It would sure be nice if I could con a friend into coming with me.
Where you at Arch?
Quote from: LordKAT on April 11, 2010, 01:27:19 AM
Where you at Arch?
SoCal. So I guess y'all can figure out that I need to drive to L.A. Bleah.
in Ohio now, Nero, you can get a letter signed by your doctor stating whether or not your transition is transitional or complete, and then send it to the dmv in columbus. they will then send you a change of corrected card sheet in the mail, take it to the dmv, have it changed and i believe they should be able to put the male marker on your passport as well. never needed a passport, so i could be wrong but that would be the simplest way to go about it, especially if your DL already says you are male. please do let me know though in case i do get to leave this wonderful country.
Quote from: The Only Warrior Princess Mekayla on April 11, 2010, 12:34:22 PM
in Ohio now, Nero, you can get a letter signed by your doctor stating whether or not your transition is transitional or complete, and then send it to the dmv in columbus. they will then send you a change of corrected card sheet in the mail, take it to the dmv, have it changed and i believe they should be able to put the male marker on your passport as well. never needed a passport, so i could be wrong but that would be the simplest way to go about it, especially if your DL already says you are male. please do let me know though in case i do get to leave this wonderful country.
Well, the State Dept. is very fussy about documentation for passport applications. If you were born in this country, you need to provide either a previous passport or a birth certificate. If that documentation has an F on it, Nero will need the surgery letter (or a court-ordered gender change doc) AND the old passport or birth certificate. But if he's had his birth certificate changed and has never applied for a passport, he might be able to just breeze through without the surgery letter.
well, then I guess we are totally screwed when it comes to passports here in Ohio unless you have SRS papers maybe??
BC's in Ohio--the only thing they will EVER change is your name---the gender marker is there forever unless you were misgendered at birth, and after 20 years or so try and win that battle. no form of government needs to look in my pants to see what kind of genitalia I or anyone else has. We don't go around asking them to drop trou and show everything--so much for the right to privacy. Now--IF--they have probable cause--only then would it be acceptable. HOWEVER--this is just some stupid broad's opinion and I don't matter in any sense of the law especially as a law-abiding U.S. citizen. ??? ??? ??? ???
My understanding is that with a letter from a surgeon and BC whether or not gender is changed on the birth cert, you can get a passport with the correct gender on it.
Quote from: LordKAT on April 12, 2010, 11:08:57 PM
My understanding is that with a letter from a surgeon and BC whether or not gender is changed on the birth cert, you can get a passport with the correct gender on it.
Yes. And a well-worded top surgery letter works for guys. Wish there was an equivalent for the ladies, like orchi (is it? anyone know?) rather than having to have the works (read: $$$).
Jay
I renewed my U.S. passport in October 2008, had my legal name change in September 2009, and all I needed was to send them my old passport with my name change letter (and a new photo) and they sent me a new passport in about 2 weeks, and sent my letter back too. Since it had been under a year since I had renewed the passport, the cost was absolutely free!
After my surgery I'll be doing the same thing again with my surgery letter this time, and again it won't have been a year since the last passport was issued so it will be free this time, too. :)
Quote from: The Only Warrior Princess Mekayla on April 12, 2010, 10:33:35 PM
well, then I guess we are totally screwed when it comes to passports here in Ohio unless you have SRS papers maybe??
The way I understand it, you gals pretty much need genital surgery to get anything but a driver's license changed, unless you get lucky with an administrator. But I know that some women have had success with just an orchi and a letter that says something about "irreversible genital surgery." On the other hand, the TLC says that the State Department and the SSA like letters that say that your transition is "complete."
Or you can get a temporary passport in your true gender (ostensibly for the purpose of getting SRS outside the country), but I think it's only good for one year.
Talk about a double standard...one of the joys of "male privilege" is that once you have a penis, you're considered male till you get rid of it, even if you're really a girl.
Quote from: Arch on April 13, 2010, 12:31:40 AM
Talk about a double standard...one of the joys of "male privilege" is that once you have a penis, you're considered male till you get rid of it, even if you're really a girl.
That's generally how it works in life: If you have a penis you're male, otherwise you are something else. (Now, what should we call that something else? ??? Oh yeah - female [not-male]. ::))
-------------------
I expect to send my unexpired passport, application, photo, a copy of my name change certificate, my surgery letter, and $$$. I have no idea how far I would have to drive to do it in person, so I expect to do it by mail. I'll let you know in a couple of months if that works.
- Kate
Quote from: K8 on April 13, 2010, 07:37:52 AMI expect to send my unexpired passport, application, photo, a copy of my name change certificate, my surgery letter, and $$$. I have no idea how far I would have to drive to do it in person, so I expect to do it by mail. I'll let you know in a couple of months if that works.
- Kate
You can go online to the passport site and there will be a list you can click of places to go in your state. Many town halls and post offices do them.
Jay
I'm just about to renew my passport (female name) to my new name and gender. I'm under the impression that all I need is my deed poll and a doctors letter saying that you're male and the change is permanent, blah blah blah.
I've been doing more reading. Usually you have to establish your identity with "primary identification"--an existing passport or a birth certificate. But apparently you can also get a passport with some combination of so-called secondary identification like credit cards, Social Security cards, and state-issued driver's licenses. But you also have to produce your own witness, apparently, to attest to your identity.
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary%20Evidence_4314.html (http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary%20Evidence_4314.html)
I don't know how this works in the event of a name change, though...
Post Merge: April 13, 2010, 12:38:53 PM
I must apologize on another point. For some reason, I took "you must apply in person" to mean that the applicant had to go to a regional office and not a passport acceptance facility. Apparently this is incorrect. My bad. But it's always best to do your own research.
I, unfortunately, still feel the need to make an appointment at a regional office because otherwise I would have to temporarily surrender my notarized name change document when the acceptance facility sends it to the passport office. I only have one original of this document, and I can't run the risk of losing it.
Arch, they might accept a copy if they themselves make it. Not sure. I know they did photocopy my surgeon's letter as it was my only one and i was also reluctant to part with it (though Brownstein will write another one for $20).
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on April 13, 2010, 02:26:57 PM
Arch, they might accept a copy if they themselves make it. Not sure. I know they did photocopy my surgeon's letter as it was my only one and i was also reluctant to part with it (though Brownstein will write another one for $20).
Thanks, Jay. When I talked to the guys at the actual passport office, they said that I had to provide originals, and they said that the documents would be mailed back to me eventually. They didn't say that the people at the acceptance facility could make a copy and return the original immediately--and I didn't think to ask! So maybe this will work with my name change doc and my surgery letter. I have nothing to lose by trying to do it here in town.
Nero, what's your status? Have you figured out how you're going to do this?
I will say that if they do need the original with the seal, that they do mail them back. I had to send mine twice, once with my passport, the second time with my kids' passports since my F name is still on their birth certificates.
Quote from: sneakersjay on April 13, 2010, 08:08:44 PM
I will say that if they do need the original with the seal, that they do mail them back.
Yeah, but what if the envelope gets lost in the mail or jammed up in a postal machine? I just don't want to take that chance because I have no way of getting another name change doc. It's possible that I'll no longer need it after the passport (I can't use a DIY notarized doc for my birth cert), and it's possible that a copy would do for any future transactions, but I just can't be sure. I'm a cautious bugger.
Of course, excessive caution can be a real liability. It kept me from transitioning for all those years...
You can also get a provisional passport with your desired sex status if you are off to see a GRS surgeon. The GRS surgeon to be needs to give you a letter to send to them. I received a passport that was good for a year, now I just have to show them my official affidavit since I'm post-op and it will never be temporary again. Woo hoo!
Ryan if i'm right and your from the uk then yep all you need is your name change and a letter from the doctor saying you are undergoing treatment for gender dysphoria and if continued any changes will be permanent. Thats what i did in January and it came back no problems
Quote from: Valeriedances on June 04, 2010, 02:36:57 PM
Has anyone found any documentation on the passport website on how to change the gender marker? There has been some discussion here but no documentation such as an official website detailing the steps or policies.
Or if you do know how to update the gender marker only can you kindly tell me how?
I need to change my gender marker and all I can find is name change references. I've already been through that and have a passport with my female name that is less than a year old.
Thanks,
Valerie
Hi Valerie,
Sorry, I don't have any documentation to show you. But... here's what I did. What makes my situation slightly different is I had a provisional passport issued a year ago with an 'F' on it (good for 1 year). When they sent me that passport, they included a letter that said if I renewed it within 1 year, I only needed to submit a form and the signed letter from my surgeon and they would make it permanent. Along with my current passport and a couple of recent snapshots.
So... what I think would work for you is the same thing. It's this form: http://travel.state.gov/passport/forms/ds5504/ds5504_2663.html (http://travel.state.gov/passport/forms/ds5504/ds5504_2663.html) There is a spot where you can correct your gender on the second page. I would include your surgeon's letter along with a letter from you stating what happened. If you have any doubts, I would give them a call and ask them. Apart from being put on hold for a long time, I've found them to be a helpful lot.
I hope this helps, I don't think you will have any problems. Take care.
mamba
Here's a guide regarding passports:
http://www.transequality.org/Resources/NCTE_passports.pdf (http://www.transequality.org/Resources/NCTE_passports.pdf)
http://travel.state.gov/passport/renew/renew_833.html (http://travel.state.gov/passport/renew/renew_833.html)
Quote from: Kay on June 05, 2010, 03:39:25 AM
Here's a guide regarding passports:
http://www.transequality.org/Resources/NCTE_passports.pdf (http://www.transequality.org/Resources/NCTE_passports.pdf)
Their information about name changes is incorrect. According to the State Dept., you can indeed change your name on your passport even if you didn't do the name change through marriage or the court system. I have yet to test this, but I'll keep you posted.
Quote from: Arch on April 10, 2010, 02:50:14 PM
Hmm. I think they may have tightened up their procedures since you did yours. Nowadays, at least, you have to apply in person if it's your first passport or if the old one was issued that long ago. (As a matter of fact, I was under the impression that you always had to apply in person the first time, but I'm going on old childhood memories here.)
There is no legal requirement to apply for a passport in person. Just fill out the forms and mail them in. I lived in Charlotte, NC for a while and did a renew via courier with a letter from my congressman (only way to expedite at the time). Prior to that, my original was done completely via snail mail due to my living in waaaay upstate NY at the time. My current passport was done post 9/11 and I did that in person as a department of state office only because I needed to go on a trip out of the country on extremely short notice (got processed same day and I received it via FedEx on the next day). Even that could have been done by courier and save me the hassle of parking in old city Philadelphia.
Quote from: jill610 on June 05, 2010, 11:24:33 PMThere is no legal requirement to apply for a passport in person.
They do have a written policy about who needs to apply in person: http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html (http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html). Whether people can get around it is another thing entirely. But "in person" refers to either a regional office or an acceptance facility. There are acceptance facilities all over the place.
ye, Post office is passport place here and in many other cities.
edit: oopsie I already replied to this one :icon_redface:
I just received my new passport. In order to get it, I mailed my old passport, two pictures, the application (from the 'net), a check, and notarized copies of my name-change and surgeon's letters. I got the new passport in less than three weeks. I did not ask for expedited service. A couple of days later I got the old passport and the name-change and gender-change letters back.
My old passport was still valid, which I'm sure helped a lot.
- Kate
Quote from: K8 on June 07, 2010, 08:24:49 AM
I just received my new passport. In order to get it, I mailed my old passport, two pictures, the application (from the 'net), a check, and notarized copies of my name-change and surgeon's letters. I got the new passport in less than three weeks. I did not ask for expedited service. A couple of days later I got the old passport and the name-change and gender-change letters back.
My old passport was still valid, which I'm sure helped a lot.
- Kate
Kate was this the form you used? http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79960.pdf (http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79960.pdf)
I have a current valid passport less than a year old. Valerie what is confusing me about using the DS 5504 form is that it states it is only for name changes and correcting information incorrectly printed. The criteria for using the DS 5504 are listed on the form as follows:
Quote from: FORM DS-5504I have had a change in my name and my most recent U.S. passport book and/or U.S. passport card was issued less than one year ago;
OR
My identifying information in my most recent U.S. passport book and/or U.S. passport card was printed incorrectly;
OR
My most recent U.S. passport book was limited in validity and was issued less than one year ago.
If you answered NO to ALL of the three statements above,
STOP - You cannot use this form!!!
So mamba could use this form because her current one is provisional or "limited in validity", but I actually have to answer NO to all three qualifiers. At least we've narrowed it down to one or the other, I hope lol
Yes, Chloe, that's the one I used.
If you have a valid passport, this shouldn't be that hard. You want a new passport and have to give them your old one to get it (which they will return, made void).
I worked for the government for over 30 years, so perhaps these forms make more sense to me than to a civilian. You aren't asking for a correction - you asked your surgeon for a correction. You are asking for a new (renewed) passport.
- Kate
Thank you Kate! (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cosgan.de%2Fimages%2Fsmilie%2Fliebe%2Fa055.gif&hash=09c31e3d3e9f03f2ca1e44008cb973d551e61797) That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure. That's the same form I used previously for my name change. Okay cool! That one get's mailed to Philadelphia and since I'm already in Philadelphia for my surgery maybe that will help expedite matters a little lol
Er, forgive me for being so stupid in not being able to read much these days . . .
But has everybody already seen / discussed THIS (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/us-unveils-new-passport-rules-for-transgender-people/story-e6freuyi-1225877998240)?
Quote from: US unveils new passport rules for transgender peopleTHE US has introduced new, more flexible passport regulations for transgender people, ending an earlier requirement that reassignment surgery precede a passport gender change.
Hi Kiera,
It was posted under news: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,78579.0.html, (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,78579.0.html,) but thanks in case others missed it. :)
- Kate