Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Drag talk => Queens => Topic started by: undautri on April 08, 2017, 05:33:23 pm

Title: Trans and drag?
Post by: undautri on April 08, 2017, 05:33:23 pm
Hey there everyone, I have been wondering about everyone's opinions on those who transition but then choose to do drag, like if a born female transitions to a male and then becomes a drag queen. I want to know what you guys think of it.
  Do you think it's cheating, or not?
  Do you think it is a sign the person didn't want to transition, or is just an outlet?
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: LizK on April 08, 2017, 09:17:07 pm
Hey there everyone, I have been wondering about everyone's opinions on those who transition but then choose to do drag, like if a born female transitions to a male and then becomes a drag queen. I want to know what you guys think of it.
  Do you think it's cheating, or not?
  Do you think it is a sign the person didn't want to transition, or is just an outlet?
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject

Hi undautri

If I understand what you are asking, it is this...... if a FTM transitions, do we as a community think it is some form of cheating for them to become a drag queen, I am guessing you mean if they were  "really FTM trans" you think they would be a drag king? and if someone did this, then did this person make a mistake in transitioning because they chose to be a drag queen as opposed to a drag King which meant they really wanted to be a girl in the first place...

I hope I understood the question and here are my thoughts...

I think we need to separate fact from fiction

Transgender Men ARE Men
Transgender Women ARE Women

Drag Kings/Queens are Artists and therefore professionals doing a job. , Not all drag performers are Gay, not all drag performers are straight, not all drag performers have surgery, some drag performers have surgery, Not all Drag performers are Trans, you don't have to be Trans to be a Drag performer, some drag performers are Trans....

If you are FTM you ARE and always have been a man.

If a man, chooses to do drag, in part, because he has certain physical characteristics that will help with the persona he is creating, then half his luck, is what I would say. It has nothing to do with weather that person is really trans or not,  they are not necessarily related in any way.

So with those thoughts maybe you can answer that question of yours... :)

Liz
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: ele on April 09, 2017, 05:07:27 am
I don't think it's cheating. I'm currently a big fan of Peppermint on RPDR season 9 who is a trans woman :)
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: undautri on May 09, 2017, 06:38:04 am
Hey, I know it's been a month since I asked but I have to thank the both of you for your answers.  ;D
  Anything is helpful.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: eyesk8rboi on June 23, 2017, 02:30:32 pm
OMG! I've been wondering this exact thing.
I want to be the first FTM contestant on Ru Paul's drag race.....


I can dream right???  :icon_female:
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Julia1996 on June 23, 2017, 03:52:37 pm
A guy I work with does drag. He's just a regular gay guy. He doesn't take hrt and hasn't had any kind of surgery. He is very opinionated on the subject of trans women doing drag. He doesn't consider transwomen " real drag artists"  in his words. He says the point of doing drag is for a man to create a female illusion and that taking hrt, FFS, etc is cheating. He gets very upset talking about some transgirl who does drag at the club he performs at and says she shouldn't be allowed to perform or enter drag competitions.  It's like a major sore point for him. My opinion on transwomen doing drag? I couldn't care less. I don't like drag shows and I don't really understand why any transgirl would want to get in front of a club full of people and announce that she is a man pretending to be a woman. It's totally crazy to me. But hey, to each their own.  As for a transguy doing drag I don't think that would be cheating. After they have been on testosterone a while they totally look like men so how would it be different from any guy doing drag?  Gay transmen fascinate me. I had never considered gay tranaguys before. That's like really ignorant I know but until I saw some transmen on YouTube and joined this site I knew almost nothing about FtMs. Then I saw a guy on YouTube named upperchase and he was fem and talking about being trans. I thought he was mtf and hadn't transitioned yet. I was amazed when he started talking about being a transguy. He's hilarious and his YouTube channel is really cool.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: eyesk8rboi on June 23, 2017, 04:01:06 pm
I had never considered gay tranaguys before. That's like really ignorant I know but until I saw some transmen on YouTube and joined this site I knew almost nothing about FtMs. Then I saw a guy on YouTube named upperchase and he was fem and talking about being trans. I thought he was mtf and hadn't transitioned yet. I was amazed when he started talking about being a transguy. He's hilarious and his YouTube channel is really cool.

OMG....So! Kind of off topic to continue on this point, but like, I totally get that!
My mother knows these two trans women. Both are "straight" as they say....As men they were interested in women and as women they are still interested in women, but they're both together (I believe they're actually married now) and pre-bottom surgery, so we literally just wrack our brains and wonder how that works every time we talk about them.

I always feel so bigoted for getting confused by it, especially considering I'm pan sexual myself and could care less, but these two are very openly, exclusively attracted to women...So like??? I know it's not my place to full understand and it's honestly none of my business but I think about this stuff all the time.

I know two trans men that are also together, which both of them are bisexual, so that one doesn't wrack my brain as much.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Julia1996 on June 23, 2017, 04:35:52 pm
OMG....So! Kind of off topic to continue on this point, but like, I totally get that!
My mother knows these two trans women. Both are "straight" as they say....As men they were interested in women and as women they are still interested in women, but they're both together (I believe they're actually married now) and pre-bottom surgery, so we literally just wrack our brains and wonder how that works every time we talk about them.

I always feel so bigoted for getting confused by it, especially considering I'm pan sexual myself and could care less, but these two are very openly, exclusively attracted to women...So like??? I know it's not my place to full understand and it's honestly none of my business but I think about this stuff all the time.

I know two trans men that are also together, which both of them are bisexual, so that one doesn't wrack my brain as much.

I think maybe trans people don't put so much into what's between someone's legs. Probably cause we know what its like to be one gender and have the genitalia of another. I think the mtf couple work because they both present as women no matter what's between their legs. I am only attracted to males. I would not ever be attracted to another mtf because grs or not they are  female.On the same note I would date a transguy. A transguy is still a guy no matter what's between his legs. If he presents as a guy and I found him attractive I could totally get past what's between his legs.
Does that help make it more understandable?
Julia
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Liv_J on August 16, 2017, 01:00:03 pm
I noticed that the original post was about situations like a FTM trans man peforming as a drag queen - ie.  Performing the gender they were originally assigned as. I don't know about the motivation of it but would assume it would be for fun and because they like that kind of show/art form. And maybe sometimes there are still aspects of the gender presentation associated with their originally assigned gender that they quite like or at least like to play with and revisit occasionally. I do find the idea of someone that, say, identifies as a trans woman and wants to perform as a drag queen a bit odd, and it's not drag in the usual sense of the word. On the other hand I guess the typical drag queen look doesn't bear that much resemblance to an everyday woman, so maybe some like the extravagance and artistry of it as a thing of its own (without the usual cross gender implication of drag). For that matter I've heard of faux queens as a term for (generally cis) women who like to dress up like drag queens.   
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Janes Groove on August 16, 2017, 07:47:00 pm
I don't really understand why any transgirl would want to get in front of a club full of people and announce that she is a man pretending to be a woman. It's totally crazy to me.

I'm not sure they think of themselves that way.  There are a lot of transgender women in the drag scene today.  Many of them got into drag before they started to transition.  When they were in their male/questioning phase.  Drag provided them with an outlet and safe space to explore their gender identity in a community of supportive gender nonconformers.   They medically transition but still continue drag because they like it.  Many of their performances are not so much about going over the top high femme but singing and dancing to classical show tunes and showing the audience that they are just beautiful woman.  Sort of like what women get out of pole dancing.  Some of them are really true artists in the performances they create.  And they obviously enjoy the act of creating a beautiful work of art.  For some it is about playing with the idea of gender.  Challenging the viewers preconceptions of gender.  Sort of like a creative outlet where they won't be judged or ridiculed.   They are today's drag artists who are changing the form itself in a changing society.  Also, I think it must be kind of a turn on for them to be on stage and get the feedback of turning on a room full of guys.  In that way it is a stroke to their ego and a affirmation to themselves of their own femininity.  I get that.  And I think there is an element of "Hey look at me. Aren't you jealous?" to all the other drag queens.  Also, it's not just transgender women who benefit and learn from drag.  Tyra Banks once said On America's Next Top Model that she learned a lot about how to be a model from drag queens.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on December 04, 2017, 03:37:59 pm
Hey there everyone, I have been wondering about everyone's opinions on those who transition but then choose to do drag, like if a born female transitions to a male and then becomes a drag queen. I want to know what you guys think of it.
  Do you think it's cheating, or not?
  Do you think it is a sign the person didn't want to transition, or is just an outlet?
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject

Look hun, everyone has to make a living so if that is what it takes then at least they are not living off my taxes that I pay and I thank them and am a fan. Look I don't care who is who or who was what or anything else.

I am a Nirvana Fan so "Here we are now. Entertain us." I mean I watch Trixie an Katia on Vice. Trixie is too drag but still entertaining. Katia is.. is ... well she is beautiful even in drag. :embarrassed:

Cheating is when you have a partner and you choose to sleep with someone else other than you partner. Cheating at being trans while dressing in drag? LOL. No. What are you cheating? How are you cheating? Are you playing cards or living life?

Look no one cheats that is trans unless it is on the lover.

But there are so many drag shows and what makes me feel sorry for our brothers is that MTF drag is more in demand. IU mean check out some porn sights and check out the difference between MTR compared to FTM. Personally I would climb Buck Angel like an Oak Tree and let him do to me whatever he wanted and that would include more kink than most could handle. :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: undautri on December 04, 2017, 04:22:19 pm
Hey Jenntrans, thanks for replying

I didn't mean to cause any offence by asking. I asked because as a FTM I started using drag as a method of coping earlier on in my transition. It made being a woman more of a game than a reality that I was forced to live with, always focused on making light of situations, playing a role...

  the reason I asked so long ago was because I was wondering what people would think if i carried on as a faux queen and went into being a full drag queen. If they'd think it was cheating if i did so. I don't plan on doing it because it only worked until I came home and the makeup came off, and when the woman in the mirror didn't go away, well...
It was a hypothetical I was playing with and wondered how this community felt about that situation.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on December 05, 2017, 01:00:55 pm
Hey Jenntrans, thanks for replying

I didn't mean to cause any offence by asking. I asked because as a FTM I started using drag as a method of coping earlier on in my transition. It made being a woman more of a game than a reality that I was forced to live with, always focused on making light of situations, playing a role...

  the reason I asked so long ago was because I was wondering what people would think if i carried on as a faux queen and went into being a full drag queen. If they'd think it was cheating if i did so. I don't plan on doing it because it only worked until I came home and the makeup came off, and when the woman in the mirror didn't go away, well...
It was a hypothetical I was playing with and wondered how this community felt about that situation.

Oh no you didn't offend me and probably shouldn't have anyone else either. We all have to make a living and or do what it takes to cope. So go for it. I mean it felt better when I was young to think of dressing as a boy as crossdressing. So I do get what you are saying. For me it was a coping mechanism until I got to the point of IDGAF.

But in total relation to the "cheating part" No. I would say on that part that it is a coping mechanism and not cheating or anywhere close to the definition of cheating. So if you are a trans man and want to do drag then it is a paycheck and not too bad of one at that. It is the same if you are a transwoman or a gay man too.

So don't ever feel bad about not being true to the community because you need to eat and make a living too. If you are using the drag or crossdressing like I did to cope then that is totally OK too and no I would not consider it cheating.

Yes we are a community but we are also individuals and what works for one person may not work so good for another. Being human is not a one size fits all experience.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: virtualverny on December 26, 2017, 08:58:44 am
I'm a transguy and I've always wanted to be a drag queen; I've always thought that drag is the perfect way to show how solid I am in my masculinity while exploring a form of art. I know it's different for everyone though :)
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jailyn on December 26, 2017, 09:24:59 am
Hi undautri

If I understand what you are asking, it is this...... if a FTM transitions, do we as a community think it is some form of cheating for them to become a drag queen, I am guessing you mean if they were  "really FTM trans" you think they would be a drag king? and if someone did this, then did this person make a mistake in transitioning because they chose to be a drag queen as opposed to a drag King which meant they really wanted to be a girl in the first place...

I hope I understood the question and here are my thoughts...

I think we need to separate fact from fiction

Transgender Men ARE Men
Transgender Women ARE Women

Drag Kings/Queens are Artists and therefore professionals doing a job. , Not all drag performers are Gay, not all drag performers are straight, not all drag performers have surgery, some drag performers have surgery, Not all Drag performers are Trans, you don't have to be Trans to be a Drag performer, some drag performers are Trans....

If you are FTM you ARE and always have been a man.

If a man, chooses to do drag, in part, because he has certain physical characteristics that will help with the persona he is creating, then half his luck, is what I would say. It has nothing to do with weather that person is really trans or not,  they are not necessarily related in any way.

So with those thoughts maybe you can answer that question of yours... :)

Liz

I think Elizabeth nailed it!!! Crossdressing doesn't have to deal with your gender persay. I think you are safe and it doesn't make you any less trans for wanting to crossdress. It is intriguing thought though.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Kiera on December 26, 2017, 10:45:58 am
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject

I love the drag shows!! And the guys who attend them!! BF's Eddie and Casimiro, who I helped open Friends Tavern in Jackson Heights, sponsor a "Gala" every year!!

Some past FaceBook covers here!! (https://www.facebook.com/eddievalentin.evolution/media_set?set=a.10150467868563285.379382.593208284&type=3) Feel like such a timid mouse when I attend such events why do we take ourselves soooo seriously when all these people do is HAVE FUN???
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on January 30, 2018, 05:02:55 pm
What difference does it make really? I would say none. Do Drag because most men will not admit it but they are kind ... infatuated with it????

Even the series Blue Bloods tackled this issue in a good light.

Look Trans is not a right or left issue when it comes to the president. It is a Representative and Senate issue because the two houses are the Legislative Branch. All the president can do is sign it into law or veto it. Our reps have been too quiet for too long. They are to cowardly to face the issue. So maybe instead of blaming the Executive branch the we should blame the Legislative branch. An Executive Order is not Law. A bill goes through the house and then the senate and if the senate doesn't like it goes back to the house and then the senate and then back tot the house and ten back to the senate and then if agreed upon to the president and the pres can either veto or sign into law. The trans thing was an executive order and signed by the president in charge at the time. He  served his time and that was it. Does trans need to serve? Oh yeah but not through an executive order but by law. Brought into law by the House and the Senate and then brought to the to the executive branch to sign or veto.

Does anyone else remember the songs on Saturday morning like " I'm Just a Bill" messing up our cartoons on Saturday mornings? LOL. Well 24 hour cartoons probably not. That one "diddy" taught me more about Civics than my 9th grade Civics teacher eve did.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Devlyn on January 30, 2018, 07:07:27 pm
I'm just a bill
A lonely old bill
And im stuck here
Up on Capitol Hill

and...

Conjunction Junction
What's your function?
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on February 01, 2018, 01:32:29 pm
I'm just a bill
A lonely old bill
And im stuck here
Up on Capitol Hill

and...

Conjunction Junction
What's your function?

OMG Devlyn you are so old. ;) :laugh:. I remember when cartoons were  limited to Saturday mornings pretty much. There were a couple on Sunday mornings but now cartoons are a 24 hour thing and kids are bombarded constantly by cartoons. Maybe a little out of touch with reality? Hell I also remember Sesame Street and The Electric Company not to mention The Muppet Show on PBS. We had no choice but to go outside an play and even use our imaginations because Atari really sucked if you could afford one. After a while that even got boring.

On a psych level there is a difference. Drag is men dressing as women for some sort of stress relief, maybe testing yourself, or about a thousand other reasons and some may pertain to sexual release or not. Most are secure as men and maybe even more so than most men. Trans is more dedicated to wanting to change the outside to match more the inside. I am a weird example though. Sometimes the "man" takes over and about the time I invested growing my leg hair, underarm hair and so on, the woman takes back over and then I am back in the tub shaving again. But there is no one way to be either or and drag I assume is no different. The "woman" lasts a lot longer than the "man" in me.

I will say one thing and this pertains to everyone and that is the human condition is not a cookie cutter where you either are this or that or one thing or another. We are all different and although we are a social species we are also individuals. When we follow the herd like cows and sheep then the herd leads us. So be you and nothing more. Learn how to get along alone and not depend on the heard or AKA society to validate you.

Trans and drag? So what? All I see is people and treat them with respect unless they disrespect me. Jung talked about the "herd mentality" and that goes all ways. Just something to think about and hopefully read or research.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Lady Lisandra on February 01, 2018, 02:52:13 pm
Nowadays the concept of drag has changed a bit. It's not only about giving the ilusion of the other gender, but about creating a character with a visual impact.

There are men doing female drag characters and men doing male characters, the same happens for women. There are drag artists that create androginous drag characters. There are some that don't even look human! It's not about the gender of the artist anymore, it's about the character. What's wrong with a trans girl that likes to be a drag queen sometimes? Or with a trans guy? If you like it, then do it. Don't let anyone question your decition to transition because of it. Like gender and sexuality, they are different things.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on February 01, 2018, 03:44:32 pm
Nowadays the concept of drag has changed a bit. It's not only about giving the ilusion of the other gender, but about creating a character with a visual impact.

There are men doing female drag characters and men doing male characters, the same happens for women. There are drag artists that create androginous drag characters. There are some that don't even look human! It's not about the gender of the artist anymore, it's about the character. What's wrong with a trans girl that likes to be a drag queen sometimes? Or with a trans guy? If you like it, then do it. Don't let anyone question your decition to transition because of it. Like gender and sexuality, they are different things.

Nothing at all. Everyone need to make a living. Personally I want to be a woman all the time. I can do comedy in a trans woman sort of way if I was funny enough.

Jesus, does anyone remember the movie Connie and Carla? Two women that witnessed a mob murder in Chicago moved to LA and worked in a Drag Club to hide and be singers. They were women and passed as drag queens because of the makeup.

If you are transitioning then transition for you and you alone. A biological woman can't technically be a drag queen and a biological man can't technically be a drag king without transitioning. If you are transitioning then how about this, original transgender comedy poking jokes at all the BS we have to go through? That would be totally original and the time is getting right because more and more people are identifying with it. ??? 8)

I don't want to get crude here but the bathroom issue is a big one that you can self deprecate with. Forgetting to sit and pee in the women's room and some paranoid woman telling her boyfriend or accidentally dressed in a short skirt and walking into a men's room and using a urinal.

I mean seriously I am trans and yet I voted for the "King Cheeto" and thought he may be better than the "Godmother" and she is not even a "fairy". That is just off the top of my head though. Then I could build on it with the horse's head in the movie The Godfather but not the head but another part. :embarrassed: So see comedy is not that hard if you can be self deprecating I can't sing or dance and look like shit most of the time but you bet your ass I would be dressed in my best lingerie and stilettos in front of the mike. :o ;) But one thing that is serious is that we all need to get over all the serious shit though. Entertain me, make me laugh, make me cry but (some entertainers don't get this part now) don't make me pissed off and angry because of political views. I am bombarded with that everyday.

LOL how many people would think a drag queen dressed as Marilyn and "Happy Birthday" to Donald Trump? He would probably think it would be funny too. I know this will probably hit some nerves but please everyone lighten up and laugh a little. Sometimes shit is just funny the more outrageous it gets. I am doing my part though and my friends laugh at me and I hit them back and we laugh about it all.

But when it comes to certain spectrums it is far easier for a trans woman to be a drag queen than who she really is. It is fare easier for a man to be a drag queen than being a trans woman full time. I assume it is the same with drag kings and trans men.

Damn off the rails there. :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Michelle_P on February 01, 2018, 04:24:27 pm
Elisabeth has it right way back in her early post.

Transgender persons have identities; drag performers have personas.

Drag is a performance, a form of entertainment built on playing with gender presentation.  Drag can be done by anyone.  Straight males, gay males, bi males and transwomen have all done drag queens.  Straight females, bi and gay women, and transmen have all done drag kings.

People that do drag are entertainers, or are engaged in a recreational activity such as the competitions in the Courts. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Court_System )

There is a misconception that all transgender people are drag performers; perhaps just not very good at it.  There is a misconception that all drag performers are gay.  This is also not true.

People doing drag are not necessarily transgender persons.  Transgender persons are not necessarily drag performers.  People doing drag are not necessarily gay or lesbian persons.  Gay or lesbian persons are not necessarily drag performers.
People doing drag are not necessarily straight. Straight people are not necessarily drag performers.

It’s a character.  I can do a pretty fierce drag king, but that’s not how I identify.  (And since I am pre-FFS, I feel like I’d be cheating with the bones and voice!)



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Devlyn on February 01, 2018, 06:15:50 pm
I'd like to present this from another angle.

Elisabeth has it right way back in her early post.

Transgender persons have identities; drag performers have personas.

I am not comfortable making that determination for someone else. Our identities are sacred and not up for discussion.

Quote
Drag is a performance, a form of entertainment built on playing with gender presentation.  Drag can be done by anyone.  Straight males, gay males, bi males and transwomen have all done drag queens.  Straight females, bi and gay women, and transmen have all done drag kings.

People that do drag are entertainers, or are engaged in a recreational activity such as the competitions in the Courts. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Court_System )

There is a misconception that all transgender people are drag performers; perhaps just not very good at it.  There is a misconception that all drag performers are gay.  This is also not true.

People doing drag are not necessarily transgender persons.

For the sake of clarity, on the site they are:


Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and Transvestites.


We need to remember and embrace all the diversity in this community. Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Drag:

While the general public may be most familiar with the "high drag" of professional performance artists, drag is also part of regular life and street culture for many gender-nonconforming or gender-variant people, who may or may not consider what they do, "drag."


I'd like to think we're a little more enlightened here than the general public.

Hugs, Devlyn
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Michelle_P on February 01, 2018, 07:39:48 pm
Devlyn is correct regarding definitions, in that transgender by definition may include drag performers; however, please be careful not to assign identities to other persons.  There are drag performers who will definitely deny being transgender persons, and really won’t take well to being told that they are trans.

We don’t get to diagnose or assign identity to other persons.  Trying to do this to a drag performer is every bit as rude as mis-identifying a trans person.

That is my sole point.

Let drag performers tell your how they identify.  Do not jump to assumptions, or invert and over-generalize definitions.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Janes Groove on February 01, 2018, 09:31:02 pm
Isn't a drag king or queen on some level transgender tho?  I mean what's the motivation?  It's basically a gender nonconforming act.  Or, in other words, an act of gender nonconformity. Isn't it?

I can understand if someone is just doing it for the bucks, but that's really more of a female impersonator. Are there male impersonators? In Las Vegas?
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Transfused on March 01, 2018, 06:12:44 pm
I love drag.
I don’t see them as a threat to my womanhood.
I see them as artists.

There are many drag queens who I find very attractive. Courtney Act and Farah Moan for example.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on March 05, 2018, 01:16:42 pm
You know after re reading the replies from Devlyn and Michelle, maybe it is a way to be your true self without actually tackling the T identity.

My best friend is gay. He really don't get the T thing. In today's time it is still pretty much taboo to be transgender than gay yet more acceptable for gay men to dress as women in an entertainment atmosphere than actual transsexuals that live full time. Quite a few are more than likely trans but it is easier to be gay than trans. We all do what we do to survive and that is mentally and fiscally.

But seriously I can't judge or make any assumptions about anyone unless they tell me themselves. Four days ago that gay friend told me he found himself being more attracted to more women than men but preferred trans women. Then he hit on me and I told him , "No Sweetie, let's not ruin a close friendship with an intimate relationship that may or may not work out." But apparently with him anyway being totally gay and into total masculinity in his partner is fluid. Hell I am fluid too because when I was younger I was totally attracted to different guys and men than I am now.

See the big problem is that when it comes to identity you are talking about something that is deeper that really isn't even understood totally and that would be the human mind. Even Psychologists and Psychiatrists know how the mind and  brain function for the most part but they don't totally understand it. Another big thing is that I don't think we understand ourselves totally. So what we do to cope and as a release can be anything as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

I stand by what I said earlier, Who cares? As long as the person is happy with who they are that is the most important thing. To be completely honest we should all be happy with who we are regardless of what anyone else thinks or believes. The only one that has to be me is me. That is the same with everyone so in a perfect world everyone else that is being themselves should respect that.

I think this is the biggest part of being human and overcoming a type of herd mentality. I just happen to be a part of the LGBT community but I am not LGBT because I am just me and I have  name and not just Jennifer that is a Trans woman.

So in reality Trans or Drag can't be a general question but an question to be answered by an individual. I don't think there is any right answer.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Devlyn on March 10, 2018, 05:20:37 pm
You're  in the Drag subforum. I don't think your blending in matters to them in the least. I'm not even sure why you felt compelled to say that here.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on March 12, 2018, 12:35:52 pm
You're  in the Drag subforum. I don't think your blending in matters to them in the least. I'm not even sure why you felt compelled to say that here.

Because I have been considered a "drag queen". I have actually worked the part when hungry. I could because I had a penis instead of a vagina. Yet I was trans and passing a lot of the time don't have a lot to do with it. Quite a few are trans but it is way easier to come out as gay as it is coming out as trans. There was no difference. Some of the "girls" were effeminate gay, a couple were even straight and or married and a few lived full time in private but not public and some even lived full time. Regardless everyone has the chance to live their own lives how they see fit.

Usually I won't answer but this was a post about Drag Queens. Believe it or not we span the spectrum of all sexual orientations and gender identities. It is an entertainment job and pays better than most other jobs in a bar room or club environment. So you work it to eat and pay the bills just like everyone else.

I guess my main point is that Drag Queens are just run of the mill everyday people too. I mean there is a whole industry in Vegas and other places for it so it pays the bills and the people working is no different than the whole of society. And coming from a state where LA and NYC calls everyone hillbillies and if you dress feminine and pierce both ears your were called a sissy then you better do something to keep people from beating you up everyday. For me it began as hair metal, then when the band fell apart I stayed in Hollywood and not the good part and found a job working as a drag queen in a band and instead of lip synching it was actual music and we actually played and the singer actually sang. There was a lot of Vixen songs. Then when that fell through then I did the whole lip synch deal. Then I did a little escorting and so on. And one thing is that Drag Queens span all spectrums of society from straight to gay to closeted trans to out trans. The only way you will ever know is if you become close enough friend and talk intimately. Not in a sleeping together sort of way but secrets exposed to each other as friends with trust. So you really never know who a person is until they feel close enough to you to keep secret whatever they have in their closets hidden. And people change over time. But are they close enough to tell you when their preferences or orientations change?

Anyway that is why I said what I have here. My friend had no idea about trans women until we reconnected and I told him. I introduced him to one of my friends that I used to work with and she even moved to "hillbilly" country and they are happy dating so far. She was not full time trans either. Yet if they argue they both call me. She still isn't full time trans so when they go out it may be guy and guy or guy and girl. But her and I worked the together from the mid to late eighties and he and I grew up together from when I was fourteen and he was twelve. Just in the last five years I opened up to him. He is actually the only "family" that has ever visited me where I live now. I had a cousin call and ask me how to get to the Port of New Orleans so they could go on a cruise but never dropped by to visit coming or going. I let them live rent free on five acres for almost ten years while I paid property taxes and all. He and his wife got pissed and moved when I would not put the land up for them to get a double wide mobile home. So my point is you never know who someone is ever. It is the same with "us" too. You can never judge anyone until you are close enough that they trust you with their deepest secrets and trust them with yours.

So trans and drag may go hand in hand or not. You don't know, Hell I don't know other than what I have experienced working in that world. No one knows. So how can someone judge if a drag queen is trans or not? U have known a couple that were totally straight but could entertain in that capacity and make more per year than working in a factory or tending "normal" bars and so on. You just treat everyone with respect no matter what because you never really know who you friends or "family" is until it is too late. And you never know who you make friends with so always be open to friendships.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Devlyn on March 12, 2018, 01:54:13 pm
LOL Jenn,, I  was replying to another post which has since disappeared.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on March 12, 2018, 03:13:28 pm
LOL Jenn,, I  was replying to another post which has since disappeared.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Hugs back Girl. Why did the post disappear? What I say here or anywhere else expect to be on the "web" forever. That is just what we get for posting online.

But anyway not harm and no foul.

HMMM. Foul and fowl. I think I am gonna' cook Chicken tonight. Maybe some chicken tenders cut up and fried with General Tso's sauce and some rice. Thanks Devlyn you done made me hungry now. >:-)

I would love to have seen that post though.

If I ever offend then just tell me. Be blunt and tell me I am out of line then I can reply, explain and then we can go back and forth nicely and respectfully. Quote me and confront me. I have no problem ever with being confronted by something stupid I may have said. :embarrassed: Hell I may even apologize after rethinking something stupid I may have said. ;)
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: CallMeKatie on March 13, 2018, 05:25:57 am
Jenntrans.

I posted the other post. I was drunk and in a stupid mood and it was dumb so I deleted it.

It definitely wasn't something you said
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Jenntrans on March 20, 2018, 05:12:29 pm
Jenntrans.

I posted the other post. I was drunk and in a stupid mood and it was dumb so I deleted it.

It definitely wasn't something you said

LOL. Who has never done "tipsy typing" before? Who has never been on the "rag" before and in a piss poor mood? We all get pissy, moany and whiney sometimes even straight males. So don't feel so bad.
Title: Re: Trans and drag?
Post by: Utterly Confused on March 27, 2018, 11:11:59 pm
I believe drag is a form of art and self expression.  People can be drag queens (and kings) no matter what gender they identify as.  I know that as someone who is going to transition to male I still love the hyper femininity of drag and the expressionism that comes along with it. 

I know that trans men who are drag queens can not be taken seriously but there are people who will take it serious and you just have to find them and surround yourself with those positive people.