Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Activism and Politics => Politics => Topic started by: redhot1 on April 28, 2017, 03:31:54 pm

Title: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: redhot1 on April 28, 2017, 03:31:54 pm
Sorry for being too general in the Politics forum, but I don't think I can post this on any other community. I'm afraid that North Korea will strike the US, which is the country I live in, and it's all going to end. I'm freaking out about it because their tension has been rising, and I want to pursue a lot of things I never got, not just exploring my gender, but I'm just talking about all stuff. Once it all ends, there it isn't proven that we will get to re-live our lives in this same universe or get a second chance.

Sorry for that bit of being philosophical, but do you really think things will end now? What can I do to calm myself? My parents don't even want to talk about North Korea, hmm, maybe I should've talked less about it in the first place to "save" my raving. It borders on oppression. It's like they think whatever I say is 100% crap that holds no water. If they were truly in my best interests, they would've let me talk about it and not shut me up. I can't convince them anyway.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Sena on April 28, 2017, 03:52:38 pm
Its probaly best to think about that usa has the biggest military in the world and i dont think a country like Nk will do anything against such overwhelming force. Also i dont think that Nk has any weapons that can even reach the usa so they cant really do anything against them.

I do hope that this helps you a bit.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: jentay1367 on April 28, 2017, 04:08:45 pm
North Korea DOES NOT have a missile with the range required to strike the continental United States.....period. Now if you're in Tokyo or Seoul? ll bets are off. Don't lose even one moment of sleep. If they actually do decide to strike anyone with a nuclear based weapon, their little potentate will be reduced to spun glass in very short order. And I assure you, they know that. Lots and lots of male posturing. Nothing to see here....lol
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on April 28, 2017, 04:56:02 pm
We have been at war with NK since 1950.  The war has never officially ended.  I did my time in the Korean DMZ back in 1982 and even then we were fully uploaded to kill any NK we could find on our side. 

As others have said, they cannot strike us right now.  The real threat is to Seoul as its within range of lots of NK long range artillery and missiles. 

However, if NK ever did start something then between us and South Korea we would destroy NK in short order.  So unless their regime is actually in danger of collapse I doubt they'll do more than bluster for now.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Dena on April 28, 2017, 05:18:13 pm
Something that hasn't been reported much in the news is that Trump has had a discussion with China and China has been putting the pressure on North Korea by limiting supplies to the country. North Korea understands that they wouldn't exist long without China's help so I suspect you will start to hear less from them as time goes on. The last thing China wants is the US to take action in Korea so from China's point of view, it's better that China control North Korea than the US.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: TinaVane on April 28, 2017, 05:27:54 pm
I keep hearing North Korea can reach Seattle to which is where I reside. I would think they could hit Hawaii before Seattle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: jentay1367 on April 28, 2017, 05:49:11 pm
I keep hearing North Korea can reach Seattle to which is where I reside. I would think they could hit Hawaii before Seattle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just cuz' you "heard it" ain't make it true...they simply can't. In fact they just launched an hour ago and failed miserably...... again. They can't even get out of their own way. The little troll just wants some attention as most petulant children do.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: TinaVane on April 28, 2017, 05:58:12 pm

Just cuz' you "heard it" ain't make it true...they simply can't. In fact they just launched an hour ago and failed miserably...... again. They can't even get out of their own way. The little troll just wants some attention as most petulant children do.
"petulant children "
Sound like what we have also


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Christine1 on April 28, 2017, 06:00:07 pm
NK would have an issue hitting SK yet alone the US. It's called fear mongering!
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on April 28, 2017, 06:31:14 pm
NK could kill tens to hundreds of thousands of South Koreans in Seoul before we could react.  Their artillery is in range and it has been targeted for over 60 years.  NK is not a joke.  Given time they will be able to reach the USA with their missiles even though they can't do it yet.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: SailorMars1994 on April 28, 2017, 06:44:22 pm
Yes, NKs leader has a very very very bad case of small man syndrome. If he attack anyone I can garruentee you that the following counties: France, United Kingdom, America, Canada , Austrialia, Isreal (more then likey, and a whole host of other countries including China would take swift and strong acton... NK knows this, so they are just trying to flex their muscle like a 13 year old boy after his first trip to the gym... Sleep tight <3
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: redhot1 on April 28, 2017, 08:41:33 pm
Apparently, the nuke on SK or Japan may cause a worse scenario of making a volcano erupt.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: jentay1367 on April 28, 2017, 09:31:29 pm
If they can actually manage to get a nuke to either place, a crappy volcano will be the least of the worlds problems. It will be ugly. Very ugly.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Joelene9 on April 28, 2017, 09:50:50 pm
  The Kim dynasty leadership of the DPRK has long to be known as the "Addams Family" of the Western Rim. There are 3 generations that passed whom don't know about the outside world other than that negative stuff in the constant propaganda. The people are hungry for God, food and information. Each of the 3 leaders had complete control as each successor being more eccentric and having more dangerous 'toys' to play with. With Jong-Un, not even his relatives are safe. These people go by the nastiest forms possible.
  There is a lot to be afraid with this person with nukes. Japan was nuked twice before and they don't want to be nuked again! Today's missile test was another failure shortly after launch. The DPRK does not have trade relations with China. The last train China sent was confiscated along with the gift cargo. That bridge from Linjiang, China is lit across the Yalu River by colorful LED lights on the China side only. Another bridge has been constructed on both sides near the mouth of that river, but has no road from it on the N. Korea side. The lights are off at night in North Korea except those that illuminate the statues and portraits of the two past leaders.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: kariann330 on April 29, 2017, 10:25:37 am
From someone who did 18 months stationed at the DMZ, I can tell you this much.....our Army alone has enough firepower to wipe NK off the face of the earth. Their special forces are constantly lied to about being the best in the world, yet their boots are worn out to the point of barely providing any protection, they are using modified USSR erra Kalashnikov rifles that are prone to malfunctions because of age, the cylinder magazines that they use are prone to malfunctions and jams, and they are malnourished to the extent that prolonged time in an active theater would lead to exhaustion at a severely accelerated rate.

Further more if you were to directly compare their numbers to ours we have them licked, sometimes on a 1,000:1 scale.

Now if you want to talk about technology, they do not have the money, or the equipment to miniturize a nuclear device to use it as a warhead no matter what they claim. The device that's being called the disco ball may be the correct size, but it is obviously lacking the rather advanced electronics needed to detonate a device that size.


I will say that compared to actual military facts the lame stream media sure is doing a great job once again of fearmongering and misrepresenting the facts about NK. Is it partially because of classified information, yes....but I have  feeling that wanting to make sure you have an even worse opinion about POTUS is also part of it as that situation wasn't even that stable under Obama or Bush.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: redhot1 on May 06, 2017, 11:38:34 am
Also, there is a clairvoyant prophet named Horacie Villeges who foresees World War 3 starting on May 13. What if he is right? He also foresaw Trump's election and the strike in Syria.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Tessa James on May 06, 2017, 12:01:51 pm
And the end of the world has been predicted by countless erring prophets for generations and here we are.

You can always find a way to worry but getting out there and making friends feels better :D
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Dena on May 06, 2017, 12:14:24 pm
Also, there is a clairvoyant prophet named Horacie Villeges who foresees World War 3 starting on May 13. What if he is right? He also foresaw Trump's election and the strike in Syria.
Let me tell you how con men work. They take credit for something that has already happened and then make a prediction. This is a common game in the finance industry in order to rope people in. Most often they buy a worthless stock for pennies, make "predictions" that this stock is going to be valuable. The stock then goes up because everybody buys it believing the "prediction" and then the con man dumps what they are holding, making a profit by pushing worthless stock. This is an illegal practice but it's difficult to convict people who do this so people lose money every year to this scam.

When somebody makes a prediction about the future, the odds are they have figured out how to make a buck off it. The problem for you is to figure out how they are doing it.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on May 06, 2017, 03:07:29 pm
When I was in high school Hal Lindsey was all the rage with his book "The Late Great Planet Earth" with its prediction of the apocalypse and the return of Jesus in the 1980s.  Here it is 37 years later and Jesus is still conspicuous in his absence and the earth is still here.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: SailorMars1994 on May 06, 2017, 08:35:20 pm
Also, there is a clairvoyant prophet named Horacie Villeges who foresees World War 3 starting on May 13. What if he is right? He also foresaw Trump's election and the strike in Syria.

Well, we all died on December 21 2012.... We just dont know it yet ;)
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Kylo on May 06, 2017, 08:41:53 pm
NK leaders tend to threaten everyone around them, but this comes from their position being terribly weak. They desperately want to be strong, and they aren't, so they posture and threaten... partially perhaps because they really don't know much about how the outside world works, partly because they think it works, and partly because they have to keep up the pretence they are a strong nation to their own people.

They have a dozen or so nukes apparently, they can't seem to test a missile successfully lately, their soldiers are so malnourished they need afternoon naps... and as crazy as the leaders are even they must know if they strike anyone with a nuke, Pyongyang will be a smoking crater within the hour.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Paige on May 06, 2017, 10:35:00 pm
Hi All,

A couple of things to consider.  They don't need a missile to use their bomb.  It's quite conceivable they could smuggle a nuclear weapon into SK or Japan or even the US.  When you consider how they were able to smuggle so much technology into NK to support their nuclear program, it's possible to believe they could smuggle a bomb out.  And remember you don't have to get it right into a country.  Just blowing an atomic bomb off the coast of a big city could cause tremendous damage.

With that said it would be a suicide move.  If it could be be traced back to them it would guarantee their annihilation.  But what happens if you back them into a corner with no hope?  Do you force a move that could cause such a scenario?

Also remember, even though most of the world has forgotten about the Korean War, they haven't.  It was a terribly bloody affair.  Are they totally irrational?  Or are they extremely paranoid based on past history?  Sure some of this has been used to keep one family in power, but there's a long memory of the death and destruction that was inflicted.

As was said earlier South Korea, especially Seoul, is particularly vulnerable.  Their guns may be old but there's a lot of them and a lot of soldiers willing to fight.  They could inflict tremendous damage before the world could respond.

This isn't an easy situation, it never has been.  Anyone who thinks there's an easy answer or thinks all that's needed is some tough talk, needs to seriously look at the facts.  It may not be that dangerous for American citizens but it's a different story if you live in South Korea.

Take care,
Paige :)
   
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Tessa James on May 08, 2017, 09:46:35 am
Well, we all died on December 21 2012.... We just dont know it yet ;)

So all that practice with Zombies was mere prelude to ...... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: RobynD on May 08, 2017, 10:01:26 am
So all that practice with Zombies was mere prelude to ...... ;D ;D ;D

If this is the afterlife, i want my money back :)

The hermit kingdom that is North Korea is really an interesting thing. It would be more comical if he did not kill his own people and put them in "rehabilitation camps", but i guess that is how a despot rolls.

I don't worry about being nuked from there i do worry about a conflict and collapse effect on world markets etc. At some point that country should be reunified.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Kylo on August 20, 2017, 02:06:31 pm
I don't think any change is going to come from within. This is the third generation of leaders of the same family and it looks set to continue so long as they have isolation and complete control of all media within the country.

So far US have been paying them aid money with the condition they not develop their nukes and every single time they take the money and continue development. That strategy didn't work then and it won't work now. Sanctions probably won't work either as I wouldn't be surprised they get aid money under the table regardless. Really NK should not have been allowed by its neighbors to reach this point but it's spilt milk now. At some point NK will probably have to be "dealt with", as its continual threats and increasing nuclear power isn't something anyone wants.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jessica Lynne on August 20, 2017, 04:19:32 pm
 I don't believe we've given them spit since 2009.
I don't think any change is going to come from within. This is the third generation of leaders of the same family and it looks set to continue so long as they have isolation and complete control of all media within the country.

So far US have been paying them aid money with the condition they not develop their nukes and every single time they take the money and continue development. That strategy didn't work then and it won't work now. Sanctions probably won't work either as I wouldn't be surprised they get aid money under the table regardless. Really NK should not have been allowed by its neighbors to reach this point but it's spilt milk now. At some point NK will probably have to be "dealt with", as its continual threats and increasing nuclear power isn't something anyone wants.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: MistressStevie on August 20, 2017, 11:29:35 pm
War is a very significant economic activity.  Prolonged war even more so.   
North Korea has a hard time feeding its people.   Pictures of North Korea
at night suggest the infrastructure is many decades behind the rest of
the world.  While they may talk a good talk, the economic prowess to
effectively practice military activities beyond their borders are highly
suspect.   

I am not sure what actions on their behalf would attract the bombing
to send them further back in their particular stone age, but I would
prefer that we start trading with them before that line is crossed.   

Democratic Peace Theory suggests that trading partners, particularly,
representative democracies trading partners, are significantly less
likely to involve themselves in wars.   Trade between the Koreas
would unify the peninsula faster than any other activity. 

My son referred me to the McDonald's Hypothesis that countries
who share McDonald's do not go to war with each other.  I do not
know that is true, but I love the idea. 
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Kylo on August 21, 2017, 12:34:08 am
The problem with that is that NK has been trading natural resources for some time but it hasn't lessened the grip of the regime or changed their attitudes at all. There's a documentary available in which some interviewers go into NK and are escorted around by a Spanish representative (this person readily acknowledges his allegiance to the NK state and his worth as a propagandist to our visitors) and in one scene you can see him denying there are any American multinational corporations operating in NK or any corrupting multinational products. Hilariously, behind him as he speaks is a Coke vending machine.

It's 2017 and NK has been trading, but still firing missiles into the Sea of Japan, pointing its artillery at Seoul and threatening to nuke Guam.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Dena on August 21, 2017, 01:20:27 am
North Korea is a kingdom and the only concern of the upper class is that there is enough of what they want. They don't care about the remainder of the population as long as the people don't revolt and remove them from power. The missiles are more to make sure we don't remove them from power and so the people believe the country has a powerful military. North Korea would also like some more money for not firing their missiles or in other words, nuclear blackmail. The truth is if they hit the United States, 90 minutes latter North Korea will be smoking rubble. They are playing a dangerous game and I am not sure just how far North Korea will go.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on August 21, 2017, 01:51:48 am
The national defense budget of S. Korea is more than 40 times greater than N. Korea. While NK has successfully developed satellites and technically the same ICBMs, S. Korea spectacularly failed twice launching a satellite even with Russian help in 2009 and 2010. https://m.csmonitor.com/World/2010/0611/Why-did-South-Korea-s-rocket-launch-fail

The main reason of the difference I think is that the strong dictator in NK can punish anybody in charge of corruption in defense industry mercilessly, but it is difficult to punish, and corruption in defense is so much widespread in S. Korea. For example, http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/802951.html

NK has been determined to protect themselves from any U.S. aggression since 1953, now eventually by nuclear weapons deliverable to the U.S continent. That is the essential base and ideological ground of their regime existence. NK is very small, weak and fragile country, but their determination can not be underestimated. When the US and S. Korea underestimated their power and willingness, the Korean war started in 1950. NK korea can kill millions of S. Korean by their conventional artillery alone. They do not need nuclear weapons or missiles to attack S. Korea. ICBMs are for striking the U.S.

China will never allow a country with the U.S. military in their neighborhood, as they showed in 1951 during the Korean war.

I live in S. Korea and most of people here understand well the geopolitical dynamics of the Korean peninsula. No country among the U.S., China, Russia and Japan wants a unified Korea, not to mention the 2nd Korean war. The status quo is the best for them. Therefore I sleep very well whatever Kim or Trump bullshit. At first, I thought Kim is predictable but Trump is not, causing a lot of concern here. But I know think both are predictable and at least are not crazy men.

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: OU812 on August 21, 2017, 11:39:13 am
Rather than any large-scale military actions, on a personal safety level I'd be far more concerned about NK trying the really underhanded stuff: abducting hostages, letting loose a bio-weapon, or something along those lines, and then demanding concessions. All of which they could do with relative ease.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Kylo on August 21, 2017, 12:38:42 pm
Yeah, that's true, they haven't been above trying to blow up commercial airliners in mid-air and things of that sort.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Paige on August 21, 2017, 03:32:40 pm
Yeah, that's true, they haven't been above trying to blow up commercial airliners in mid-air and things of that sort.

To play the devil's advocate:

The US is the only country to have used nuclear weapons against another country and it probably has quite a few currently pointed at North Korea. 

The US has a long history of overthrowing governments. 

During the course of the three-year war, which both sides accuse one another of provoking, the U.S. dropped 635,000 tons of explosives on North Korea, including 32,557 tons of napalm, an incendiary liquid that can clear forested areas and cause devastating burns to human skin. (In constrast, the U.S. used 503,000 tons of bombs during the entire Pacific Theater of World War Two, according to a 2009 study by the Asia-Pacific Journal.)

The US spends more on it's military than the next 8 countries combined.

People don't think North Korea is rational.  I think any rational person put in their situation would feel very threaten.  This doesn't mean I agree with the North Korean government but I can understand why they opted to acquire nuclear weapons.

Here's another interesting take on the current situation.

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/17/the-north-korea-standoff-like-the-cuban-missile-crisis-exposes-the-reckless-u-s-worldview/

Paige :)



Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: flower1221 on November 30, 2017, 02:30:23 pm
I wouldn't worry about yourself here in the USA. If something happens it could kill hundreds of thousands in Seoul. Which would be devastating, that is the leverage NO has
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jessica_Rose on November 30, 2017, 02:53:38 pm
DPRK reminds me of a book (and movie) back in the 1970's called 'The Mouse That Roared'. Basically a tiny European country (the Duchy of Gran Fenwick) with 18th century technology was on the verge of bankruptcy. They decided the best way to get caught up to the rest of the world was to start a war with the U.S. They would lose of course, but then the U.S. would give them money to rebuild. Granted the DPRK is a bit more advanced than the Duchy of Gran Fenwick and they could inflict serious casualties at the start of a conflict, but the DPRK is so far behind the rest of the world in almost every category that I can't help but wonder if they are the modern version of 'The Mouse That Roared'.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on November 30, 2017, 03:33:59 pm
Has anyone ever noticed why Kim Jung Un is so fat when everyone else around him is so skinny? I have and that is because he gets plenty of food and nutrition while the rest of North Korea is starving to death. So yeah we should bomb the North Koreans but with propaganda instead of Nukes.. Yes North Korea supposedly has ICBMs now as of the last test that can strike in the US but when you only hit one and we bust your ass and annihilate you then Mr. Kim will starve too. He does not want that.

Has anyone ever heard of the Pusan Perimeter? When we got involved in the Korean conflict the only area South Korea occupied was right around Pusan and we kicked their asses back way north of the 38th parallel. Then the Chinese got involved and the US politicians brought McArthur back and basically forced him to retire because Gen. Douglas McArthur wanted to push North Korea into Mongolia. So without the Chinese and then Russia arming the Chinese we would not have North and South Korea nowadays.

I was in South Korea and it was not that much different other than the hair color, the language, the writing and so on than NYC and the United States. We have Hyundai and Daewoo that are exported to the US or at least still Hyundai but what vehicles does North Korea Manufacture? I have seen North Korean Television and it is just as bad as TV in the states during the "70s. Check out some youtube videos and see the difference in traffic from Seoul South Korea to Pyongyang North Korea. If I visited South Korea today I would not be limited to where I can go and what I can do other than a language barrier. If I went to North Korea I would be extremely limited for what a government tour guide allowed me to see or go.

While in South Korea I have seen some pretty hefty South Koreans. I did not nor still see that in North Korea. I worked with a guy that was 10 when the conflict broke out and he loved Americans. His parent loved Americans too. They would always host a Christmas party at their home. The guy I worked with was around 50 at the time and his dad was over 70 and some of the shit he would tell us about North Korea and their lives their horrified me. So three generations of Kims ruling the country. I can just imagine how bad it is now. Not too much shakes me but I still remember that man's stories. I also remember what he told us about how he got down there with his family and the shit they went through.

Yes we should bomb them with the way the West really is but Jesus Christ. They live just north of the 38th parallel and they should be able to see the difference. I really feel sorry for the North Korean people though.

Who invented the Humburger? Well to North Koreans it was Kim Jung Il I think? He called it meat between two breads or something like that. Well the Hamburger was invented during the World's Fair and I really can't remember the date but I think maybe St Louis. So yeas this country has been oppressed for so long that the people are happy to get a ball of rice from the government every year. All while I can eat steak every night if I want.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: MaryT on November 30, 2017, 03:43:21 pm
I think that President Trump's threats to North Korea are an attempt to trigger the assassination or overthrow of Kim Jong Un.  Ironically, that is unlikely unless he loosens his grip on power.

I think that we should all be very, very concerned.  North Korea may not have any real friends but China will not be happy if the US destroys, or takes over, a country on its doorstep.  Also, since China has been building islands in the Philippines archipelago, China itself has been regarded by many as a clear and present danger to world peace. 

Because of Western sanctions, Russia has been cosying up to China.  If NK triggers a war, the US and it allies could be up against both China and Russia.  A few years ago, it took Russia just 15 minutes to destroy the armoured divisions of the Ukrainian army.  I doubt that any country with the exception of the USA would last much longer even in a conventional war.  And since the war must be won at any cost, both sides would inevitably turn to nuclear weapons.  For a variety of reasons, clean neutron bombs would not be regarded as sufficient. 

Don't panic, though.  Remember the old advice from the Cold War period, which went something like this:

1. Stay away from windows and glassware.
2. Loosen your tie and any restrictive clothing.
3. Empty your pockets of pens, pencils and any sharp objects.
4. Sit down.
5. Bend over and place your head between your legs, as you would prior to a 'plane crash.
6. Kiss your ass goodbye.

Or, as Bowser suggested, just
"Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow, you may not die after all!"
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on November 30, 2017, 04:16:23 pm
I think that President Trump's threats to North Korea are an attempt to trigger the assassination or overthrow of Kim Jong Un.  Ironically, that is unlikely unless he loosens his grip on power.

I think that we should all be very, very concerned.  North Korea may not have any real friends but China will not be happy if the US destroys, or takes over, a country on its doorstep.  Also, since China has been building islands in the Philippines archipelago, China itself has been regarded by many as a clear and present danger to world peace. 

Because of Western sanctions, Russia has been cosying up to China.  If NK triggers a war, the US and it allies could be up against both China and Russia.  A few years ago, it took Russia just 15 minutes to destroy the armoured divisions of the Ukrainian army.  I doubt that any country with the exception of the USA would last much longer even in a conventional war.  And since the war must be won at any cost, both sides would inevitably turn to nuclear weapons.  For a variety of reasons, clean neutron bombs would not be regarded as sufficient. 

Don't panic, though.  Remember the old advice from the Cold War period, which went something like this:

1. Stay away from windows and glassware.
2. Loosen your tie and any restrictive clothing.
3. Empty your pockets of pens, pencils and any sharp objects.
4. Sit down.
5. Bend over and place your head between your legs, as you would prior to a 'plane crash.
6. Kiss your ass goodbye.

Or, as Bowser suggested, just
"Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow, you may not die after all!"

This is the difference between Russia and China compared to North Korea. The latter two don't want MAD. The United States does not want that too but we get a mad man that fires a Nuke at NYC then what do we do? Just let it go?

Yes we should be concerned because "lil kim" pretty much is nothing more than a blowhard but neither China nor Russia will let it happen. They would probably take Kim Jung Un out before he fired the ICBM. Talking tough though is a good strategy. OMG if you think that the US is a paternalistic society or culture then South Korea is ten fold and I would not now how much that North Korea is. I won't go into all that but you should know from some of my previous posts.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Roll on November 30, 2017, 06:29:20 pm
The bigger issue isn't North Korea itself, it's North Korean weapons eventually falling into the hands of groups like ISIS. Though frankly, I think the bigger problem is more in the weaponized small pox arena than it is nuclear weapons to begin with.

... Wow, that was way more casually depressing than I meant it to be.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Julia1996 on November 30, 2017, 08:25:32 pm
I think that President Trump's threats to North Korea are an attempt to trigger the assassination or overthrow of Kim Jong Un.  Ironically, that is unlikely unless he loosens his grip on power.

I think that we should all be very, very concerned.  North Korea may not have any real friends but China will not be happy if the US destroys, or takes over, a country on its doorstep.  Also, since China has been building islands in the Philippines archipelago, China itself has been regarded by many as a clear and present danger to world peace. 

Because of Western sanctions, Russia has been cosying up to China.  If NK triggers a war, the US and it allies could be up against both China and Russia.  A few years ago, it took Russia just 15 minutes to destroy the armoured divisions of the Ukrainian army.  I doubt that any country with the exception of the USA would last much longer even in a conventional war.  And since the war must be won at any cost, both sides would inevitably turn to nuclear weapons.  For a variety of reasons, clean neutron bombs would not be regarded as sufficient. 

Don't panic, though.  Remember the old advice from the Cold War period, which went something like this:

1. Stay away from windows and glassware.
2. Loosen your tie and any restrictive clothing.
3. Empty your pockets of pens, pencils and any sharp objects.
4. Sit down.
5. Bend over and place your head between your legs, as you would prior to a 'plane crash.
6. Kiss your ass goodbye.

Or, as Bowser suggested, just
"Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow, you may not die after all!"

I actually saw one of those films from the 50s on the history channel. They have kids at school duck under their desks. What difference does it make if your incinerated at the desk or under it? Then they said if you were outside to curl up in a ball against a building when you see the flash. If you see the flash you're going to be a black shadow burned into the wall of that building before you have time to curl up in a ball. Then they showed bomb shelters people actually built into their houses. Usually in basements. A basement is totally not going to shield you from the heat blast. Did people really believe all that ridiculous crap in those old safety films?  And why lie and tell people they could survive a nuclear blast when they didn't have a prayer of living through it? It makes no sense. Actually I saw a movie about a nuclear attack. It was called the day after and I was trying to order the day after tomorrow and got that one by mistake.  But since I had ordered it I figured I might as well watch it. It's an old movie from the 70s but it was very graphic. It showed people turn to ashes or melt when the bomb detonated and the aftermath. It was a horrible movie. I don't know why anyone would ever make such a horrific movie. I can't imagine it would ever be shown in movie theaters but it must have been at sometime.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: sarah1972 on November 30, 2017, 08:37:03 pm
I actually saw one of those films from the 50s on the history channel. They have kids at school duck under their desks.
Bad enough: we trained that in school in the early 80’s. You would think people at that time had figured out it does not help much.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on November 30, 2017, 08:37:57 pm
I can't imagine it would ever be shown in movie theaters but it must have been at sometime.
Back then, right up until the fall of the Soviet Union, the threat was very real.  We actually came very close a couple of times to launching at each other.  So that sort of stuff from the movie was a constant thing just under the surface in the mind.

We had a drill in the Army for actions to take in case we came under attack from tactical nukes.  That also was a real possibility had war ever occurred in Europe.  Basically the drill was to lay on the ground face down, eyes closed, and hope for the best.  We also carried around radiation dose meters that would tell us how much radiation we had absorbed.

Fortunately none of that ever happened.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Julia1996 on November 30, 2017, 08:45:01 pm
Back then, right up until the fall of the Soviet Union, the threat was very real.  We actually came very close a couple of times to launching at each other.  So that sort of stuff from the movie was a constant thing just under the surface in the mind.

We had a drill in the Army for actions to take in case we came under attack from tactical nukes.  That also was a real possibility had war ever occurred in Europe.  Basically the drill was to lay on the ground face down, eyes closed, and hope for the best.  We also carried around radiation dose meters that would tell us how much radiation we had absorbed.

Fortunately none of that ever happened.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That must have been awful. I don't really give much thought to a nuclear war. To me it's like one of those possible but totally unlikely things like a gamma ray burst or a black hole coming close to earth. I can't even imagine having it hanging over your head as something that could very easily happen. That would totally freak me out.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: sarah1972 on November 30, 2017, 09:06:32 pm
This brings back bad childhood memories. Growing up in (West) Germany, there was this constant fear. Emergency drills, tests of the public alert systems (sirens), we had to learn the different types of alerts for different kinds of attacks. It was expected that Germany would get caught in the middle.

Marches and rallies to protest adding more nukes on German soil.

It was a great relief when that finally was over and nuclear missiles did get dismantled. (START I and START II treaty)

Is it comparable to today? No. Not yet. I really hope they find a quick diplomatic solution to end this craziness.

Back then, right up until the fall of the Soviet Union, the threat was very real.  We actually came very close a couple of times to launching at each other.  So that sort of stuff from the movie was a constant thing just under the surface in the mind.

We had a drill in the Army for actions to take in case we came under attack from tactical nukes.  That also was a real possibility had war ever occurred in Europe.  Basically the drill was to lay on the ground face down, eyes closed, and hope for the best.  We also carried around radiation dose meters that would tell us how much radiation we had absorbed.

Fortunately none of that ever happened.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on November 30, 2017, 09:26:22 pm
I think most of us back then, at least in the Army, expected that if war broke out that we would die.  That was particularly true in Korea.  I was on a small outpost located about 10 meters from the border on top of a small bald hill.  We were in range of several thousand NK artillery pieces and expected to be one of the first targets. 

We joked about it and didn’t really worry about it though because there wasn’t a thing we could do about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: MaryT on December 01, 2017, 12:24:17 pm
...
And why lie and tell people they could survive a nuclear blast when they didn't have a prayer of living through it? It makes no sense.
...

I'm sure that the authorities were well aware that the "precautions" would have little effect.  I think that the advice was issued so that the plebs would think that their needs were being addressed while the V.I.P.s and their families were evacuated to the really safe bunkers, deep underground.  Whether there would be anything worth coming out of the bunkers for, even after many years, is another matter.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on December 01, 2017, 01:31:09 pm
I think most of us back then, at least in the Army, expected that if war broke out that we would die.  That was particularly true in Korea.  I was on a small outpost located about 10 meters from the border on top of a small bald hill.  We were in range of several thousand NK artillery pieces and expected to be one of the first targets

We joked about it and didn’t really worry about it though because there wasn’t a thing we could do about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. NOKO can't afford enough nukes and maybe not even afford an efficient way of delivering them. Right now they are testing us and gauging our reaction. I don't see Kim Jun Un and North Korea as much as a threat as just a nuisance. To me it is almost like a mosquito buzzing in your ear. Eventually China will get tired of having to reign him in and Russia will get tired of reigning him in and the People in NOKO may get tired of seeing a fat man in ruling them while they are starving to death while he eats really good. He probably has spies and operatives in South Korea that bring him Big Macs and French fries on a daily basis. ;D

Yeah Deborah I was stationed in South Korea too and everything that South Korea and the US military does in South Korea does is for defensive purposes instead of offensive. I have seen many University demonstrations and I won't talk too much about it but North Korea had a lot of "Implants" that preached reunification on the Universities.

But I will say if they ever do strike a US city with a Nuke then it will probably be NYC or LA. That will cause the most damage so outside of there the rest of the country is pretty safe. Hell all they are doing is testing right now. Maybe it is time to nip it in the bud to keep it from blooming.

It was bad back in the '50s but we beat them back way past the 38th parallel until the Chinese got involved then we came under and Armistice but still at technically at war. But now with Russia, China and the US having the most nukes? China and Russia don't want that. So maybe one of these countries will take him out before he launches a real nuke. That may even be in the works now as we speak. So to me not too much to be afraid of. I have serious doubts that he has the capability to strike the US with a Nuke because if so this man would be crazy enough to use it. So far it has just been missile tests and that is it.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Alenko on January 07, 2018, 06:10:31 pm
You know I gotta say that I'm not a fan on Nation-building and the consequential effects that follow through, but when it comes to North Korea it feels like engaging the country is The One Ring and I'm Gollum. There's so much intellectual potential that's being kept from the world. It's truly sad. :(
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Cassi on January 07, 2018, 07:44:08 pm
Wow, I didn't even know this thread existed.
As others have said we use to have air raid drills and would have to duck and cover. 
I remember as a kid in the 1950s having nightmares and looking out the window and seeing a mushroom cloud.

North Korea's leader is insane and sadly the people of north korea have been told and they have no way of knowing otherwise that south korea and the us attacked them.

Their technology is still a lot weaker than ours, the soviets, china, etc.

Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Dani on January 07, 2018, 08:01:38 pm
North Korea's leader is insane ...

That is not the only country with an insane leader.

Quote
Their technology is still a lot weaker than ours, the soviets, china, etc.

Where do you think that North Korea is getting all the latest missile technology? Their launchers look very similar to Russian mobile missile launchers. They managed to develop long range missiles very rapidly, faster than the US or Russian missile programs. North Korea is getting help from someone.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Cassi on January 07, 2018, 08:11:08 pm
You know, now that you mention it, I'm beginning to see how the Greys kinda look like North Koreans.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on January 07, 2018, 08:48:29 pm
North Koreans are no different than South Koreans other than that they have been denied information and propagandized since birth, Fox News on steroids.  Since South Koreans are really fine people and have always been extremely friendly toward us, I’m sure that the North Korean people are fine people too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Paige on January 08, 2018, 08:44:34 am
North Koreans are no different than South Koreans other than that they have been denied information and propagandized since birth, Fox News on steroids.  Since South Koreans are really fine people and have always been extremely friendly toward us, I’m sure that the North Korean people are fine people too. 


And to extend this excellent point a bit, I would say most people on this planet are really fine people.  If we could just keep sociopaths and narcissists out of positions of power we would be in much better shape.

Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on January 10, 2018, 03:34:23 pm
I am reading the popular and inspiring book, "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond, thinking about a  state and its people. Fear and violence has been the essential tool for a state to control its own people or even subjugate other people. It has been universal, although the degree can differ greatly depending on the time and the place.

Quote
Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to hate, and hate leads to violence.

The following YouTube video is very informative in sketching what ordinary North Koreans have been educated to fear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXo-Vov_98Y

Here in S. Korea, I was the same, incessantly reminded of a sudden invasion from N. Korea. N. Korean leaders fear any possible attack from the U.S., as much as some ordinary Americans did with the Soviet Union and now with N. Korea.

The first engagement of the U.S. with the Korean problem (or issue) traces back to as early as 1905, when the secret, Taft–Katsura agreement was made between the U.S. and Japan, just after the Russo-Japanese war. A very few Americans may be familiar with this historical context regarding not only the conflicts between S. and N. Korea, but broadly the Pacific war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Katsura_agreement

barbie~~

Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Tessa James on January 11, 2018, 11:04:35 am
Thank you Barbie,

One of the values of this Place is our international membership and engagement.  All of us are subject to our early socialization and the continued propaganda that is now digitally incessant.  I appreciate the varied perspectives that are shared here and the advocates for better understanding and peaceful collaboration.  I trust that we can still learn from each other.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Roll on January 11, 2018, 01:13:37 pm

The first engagement of the U.S. with the Korean problem (or issue) traces back to as early as 1905, when the secret, Taft–Katsura agreement was made between the U.S. and Japan, just after the Russo-Japanese war. A very few Americans may be familiar with this historical context regarding not only the conflicts between S. and N. Korea, but broadly the Pacific war.


Though back then, the US was very much just interested in the Philippines and any of Japan's potential ambitions towards them. I'd be surprised if they gave much of any consideration to Korea beyond just being happy to let Japan focus on the continent.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on January 11, 2018, 07:22:39 pm
I appreciate the varied perspectives that are shared here and the advocates for better understanding and peaceful collaboration.  I trust that we can still learn from each other.

Sure! We can learn from each other.

Though back then, the US was very much just interested in the Philippines and any of Japan's potential ambitions towards them. I'd be surprised if they gave much of any consideration to Korea beyond just being happy to let Japan focus on the continent.

While history is not a must in the US, it is a required course here in Korea from elementary school to college.

Before 1905, while the U.S. was seeking a isolationist, other European countries once tried to take Korea as their colony (e.g., France and England) in the late 19th century. But the major players were China, Russia and Japan that are geographically very close to the Korean peninsula: the first Sino-Japanese war in 1894, followed by the Russo-Japanese war in 1905, and the second Sino-Japanese war in 1937. The US was not any major player, which was confirmed by the Taft–Katsura agreement.

The major engagement of the U.S. in the Korean peninsula started in 1945 after the defeat of Japan. The first human tragedy after the US engagement occurred here in Jeju island where I currently live.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_uprising

Most of the survived local people here still remember it, and it has been traumatic and dark history. Near my house, there are several abandoned villages, as all of the residents were killed or evacuated in 1948.

barbie~~


Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Julia1996 on January 11, 2018, 08:10:27 pm
Too bad south Korea is attached to north Korea. It would save a lot of time and stress to send a couple of missiles to north Korea and turn it into a huge sheet of glass. But there's no way to do that without killing everyone in south Korea at the same time.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Dena on January 11, 2018, 09:37:16 pm
Too bad south Korea is attached to north Korea. It would save a lot of time and stress to send a couple of missiles to north Korea and turn it into a huge sheet of glass. But there's no way to do that without killing everyone in south Korea at the same time.
Remember that its not the people but the government that's the problem. Most of the people suffer and only obey because the alternative is death. The government is a third generation dictator who retains power by fear. Removing just a few high level officials would be sufficient to end the current government.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Roll on January 11, 2018, 09:55:46 pm
Or, and hear me out, kidnap all their unicorns. Okay, I guess there's really nothing to hear me out on, that is the whole of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/30/unicorn-lair-discovered-north-korea

(Seriously though, that is the sort of government we are dealing with unfortunately. Not that I am going to throw too many stones in this house made out of glass. Also unfortunately, it is the North Korean people who have to live that reality on a daily basis. :/)
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on January 12, 2018, 01:10:37 am
Or, and hear me out, kidnap all their unicorns. Okay, I guess there's really nothing to hear me out on, that is the whole of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/30/unicorn-lair-discovered-north-korea

(Seriously though, that is the sort of government we are dealing with unfortunately. Not that I am going to throw too many stones in this house made out of glass. Also unfortunately, it is the North Korean people who have to live that reality on a daily basis. :/)

N. Korea leaders look crazy, but actually they are very rational.

Another story:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/05/north-korea

BTW, Many people in the 21st century still believe or like to believe that Jesus was born on December 25, about 2,000 years ago without the agency of a human father. I mean literally.

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on January 12, 2018, 01:48:41 am
Too bad south Korea is attached to north Korea. It would save a lot of time and stress to send a couple of missiles to north Korea and turn it into a huge sheet of glass. But there's no way to do that without killing everyone in south Korea at the same time.

Yes. Some of the U.S. leaders once thought like you. For example, General Douglas MacArthur who insisted on nuking northern China, and even a part of Russia in 1950. But it is not so simple in the real world, as recently demonstrated in the Iraq war from 2003 to 2011.

That kind of simplistic optimism has usually resulted in unexpected consequences, sometimes tragically. For example, a crucial moment during the Korean war in 1950:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erCtuu76P00

barbie~~

Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Roll on January 12, 2018, 01:54:21 am
N. Korea leaders look crazy, but actually they are very rational.

Another story:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/05/north-korea

BTW, Many people in the 21st century still believe or like to believe that Jesus was born on December 25, about 2,000 years ago without the agency of a human father. I mean literally.

barbie~~

I actually had read the correction when it first came out, but was mostly just making a small joke with an addendum so didn't bother bringing it up. Anyway, it doesn't really change the main gist of the biggest issue in that North Korea used folklore to make a claim about rightful leadership of the peninsula. It'd be like someone in the U.K. claiming to be the new king of Britain because they pulled a sword from a stone. Or perhaps more directly, similar to strange justifications Saddam Hussein used for Iraq's supposed rightful rule of Kuwait to justify their invasion at the start of the Gulf War. (Which while didn't go quite so far as mythical beasts, it was quite creative.)

Also, the same can be said for the Nazis regarding leaders being rational. They knew exactly what they doing with their anti-Jewish(/communist/black/gay/etc.) propaganda, and few of the leadership were probably true believers(won't get into it here, but they were some pretty weird people in general, just not in ways people would think they'd be). Which is really the problem: Someone doesn't have to be irrational in order to use irrational claims to reach their goals. That irrationality then permeates a country (not always the people, but certainly the government in these circumstances), and the leadership has to continue to use that irrationality in order to keep the ball rolling. In essence, they are like people who tell one lie, then another lie to cover for that lie, and so on and so on until everything they say is a lie. Except in this case, nuclear weapons are involved. All it takes is one true believer, one fanatic, in the wrong place at the wrong time and that irrationality, fostered by people who are themselves perfectly rational, can create untold destruction.

(Though I would say the comparison to modern mass Christian belief is entirely unjust. One is a matter of faith by individuals regarding the metaphysical, the other a matter of deception to propagate political power in order to abuse potential faith. If the Pope today tried to claim political control over Europe again using Christian doctrine, that would be the analog. Basically, my issue has nothing to do with whether or not individual North Koreans believe in Kirin or not, and I would never begrudge such a belief. Unless it's related to a certain belief created by a certain science fiction author. That one I begrudge.)
Title: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2018, 02:28:54 am
I
(Though I would say the comparison to modern mass Christian belief is entirely unjust. One is a matter of faith by individuals regarding the metaphysical, the other a matter of deception to propagate political power in order to abuse potential faith. If the Pope today tried to claim political control over Europe again using Christian doctrine, that would be the analog. Basically, my issue has nothing to do with whether or not individual North Koreans believe in Kirin or not, and I would never begrudge such a belief. Unless it's related to a certain belief created by a certain science fiction author. That one I begrudge.)
Really?  The claim today, in the USA, is that God has personally selected Trump to be president and that opposition to Trump is opposition to God!

This from one who has spoken publicly at the White House.
 http://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-trump-paula-white-663088

This from a former member of Congress.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/293884-michele-bachmann-god-picked-trump-to-be-the-gop-nominee

We live in a glass house when it comes to believing fantastical things.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Roll on January 12, 2018, 07:28:09 am
Really?  The claim today, in the USA, is that God has personally selected Trump to be president and that opposition to Trump is opposition to God!

That is just typical rhetoric for people supporting their position using the will of God, or citing divine support for the reason things went their way, like people winning a high school football game and saying "God was with us!". No one is using divine right as the reason Trump is (and is "rightfully") President in any meaningful capacity, or even making claims in a non-religious sense such as by fabricating documents he is the great great great great grandson of George Washington and Betsy Ross, but yet that is the very sort of thing Pyongyang has done with their propaganda of this sort. (I was being jokey about the unicorn aspect, but it is hardly an isolated occurrence.)

God as an intangible inspiration or guiding force in the modern world is simply not the same thing as "Give us South Korea, we found the mythical steed of an ancient emperor", and it is a mistake to let any disdain for Trump or the role of religion in today's society to cloud the very dangerous difference between those two things. At no point is "God chose such and such President" ever going to mean the difference in proactive use of nuclear weapons, it just won't(excepting someone with a severe mental health issue that manages to fly under the radar, but that is a different matter entirely). With North Korea, the stuff they claim about the Kims and with things such as the Kirin lair, very well might, and perfectly rational (in the not mentally ill sense) people indoctrinated by such a government may act in extraordinarily irrational ways.

Addendum, just looked at the Bachmann article and she is being misrepresented by an attention grabbing headline. I'm not defending her or making any political commentary, but that not a a literal chosen savior view she expressed. It was clearly just an attempt to build up support for the nominee at the time, and not remotely in the same league as official statements by a governing body.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Julia1996 on January 12, 2018, 08:07:00 am
Really?  The claim today, in the USA, is that God has personally selected Trump to be president and that opposition to Trump is opposition to God!

This from one who has spoken publicly at the White House.
 http://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-trump-paula-white-663088

This from a former member of Congress.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/293884-michele-bachmann-god-picked-trump-to-be-the-gop-nominee

We live in a glass house when it comes to believing fantastical things.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I see stuff like this it makes me think the handmaids tale isn't so far fetched. It's a series on hulu that's very scary. A world where religion has taken over and "gender treachery " is punishable by death.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on January 12, 2018, 03:23:59 pm
(Though I would say the comparison to modern mass Christian belief is entirely unjust. One is a matter of faith by individuals regarding the metaphysical, the other a matter of deception to propagate political power in order to abuse potential faith. If the Pope today tried to claim political control over Europe again using Christian doctrine, that would be the analog. Basically, my issue has nothing to do with whether or not individual North Koreans believe in Kirin or not, and I would never begrudge such a belief. Unless it's related to a certain belief created by a certain science fiction author. That one I begrudge.)

A little bit out of the topic.

Of course, most democratic countries separate religion from politics in ruling, while allowing religious freedom. But you look at modern history, religion still is critical in politics. For example, the sudden establishment of Israel within the territory of Palestine (de facto justified by the Bible) in 1948, the subsequent tragic wars and conflicts in the Middle East and even within the U.S., and the recent President Trump's Jerusalem decision in December 2017.

I am sure and agree that N. Korea is a totalitarian country, sometimes fabricating myths and miracles to brainwash their people. The mindset of the leaders and people there is like those in the 17th century Chosun dynasty. But, this is not unique to N. Korea. Around the world, political leaders sometimes do lie to justify their action (e.g., the operation Menu in Cambodia in 1969 by Nixon), and nationalism is still widespread and an important tool for political leaders to manipulate and unify their people against enemies (as in the recent territorial conflict between Japan and China).

Personally, I believe the western liberal democracy, in therms of Karl Popper ("The open society and its enemies") and Friedrich Hayek ("The road to serfdom"), is superior to any social system based on totalitarian communism or religious dogma, and S. Korea chose the liberal democracy in its constitution, at least on paper. Karl Popper never justified violence or war as the best solution for solving social problems.

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Roll on January 12, 2018, 04:00:58 pm
I'll avoid the Israel issue, I could go on for hours about it. ;D (Nothing anti-Israeli or anti-Palestinian, but more about the interplay of politics and ethnocentric attitudes combined with good old fashioned vendettas and a whole lot of guilt.)

Mostly I just draw a clear line between a belief, and a political manipulation of belief (political in a very official sense in this context). When you reference the virgin birth, that is simply a belief, even if that belief influences politics(voting for a candidate because someone believes they are pro issues they consider important for religious reasons is not really any different than someone voting for a candidate because of environmental issues, fiscal issues, etc.). No matter how unlikely or irrational something may seem to us, it is of course not right to condemn anyone's belief. When Imperial Japanese pilots were told to suicide bomb targets because the emperors were descendants of Amaterasu, that was manipulation of belief. Japanese citizens having believed the imperial line were the offspring of a Goddess is something that should certainly not be criticized in the same vein as the virgin birth, but yet the actual action by the Emperors to utilize/manipulate that belief very much should be. (Or to go back to the Pope and in time a little, when kings and emperors in Europe were expressly given power at the behest of the church and the papacy was viewed as the ultimate political office, because the Pope was viewed as the instrument of God.) And while this does hinge on drawing a further distinction between an individual action even by a government official and an entirely official political action, I personally think that is a distinction worth drawing.

(I'm also deliberately avoiding the handful of modern theocracies in this context, because that is a whole big mess of its own which I might get myself banned for discussing. ;D)

TLDR(not that it was that long): Individual belief on a micro level(even micro-political) in anything should be held as a human right, even when not rational. Belief manipulated or abused on a macro level(particularly macro-political) in an official capacity, not so much. The connotations are different, even as there is certainly interplay between the micro and macro.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Cassi on January 12, 2018, 04:16:21 pm
Yes. Some of the U.S. leaders once thought like you. For example, General Douglas MacArthur who insisted on nuking northern China, and even a part of Russia in 1950. But it is not so simple in the real world, as recently demonstrated in the Iraq war from 2003 to 2011.

That kind of simplistic optimism has usually resulted in unexpected consequences, sometimes tragically. For example, a crucial moment during the Korean war in 1950:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erCtuu76P00

barbie~~

The Frozen Chosen during the Freez'n season - The most tactical withdrawal in military history.  Marines of the 1st Marine Division (20,000 men) surrounded by Chinese forces (200,000).  The US Government had already written the Marines off. 

While not a victory in the classic sense, the withdrawal from the Chosin Reservoir is revered as a high point in the history of the US Marine Corps.

In the fighting, the Marines and other UN troops effectively destroyed or crippled seven Chinese divisions which attempted to block their progress. Marine losses in the campaign numbered 836 killed and 12,000 wounded. Most of the latter were frostbite injuries inflicted by the severe cold and winter weather. US Army losses numbered around 2,000 killed and 1,000 wounded. Precise casualties for the Chinese are not known but are estimated at 35,000 killed. Upon reaching Hungnam, the veterans of Chosin Reservoir were evacuated as part of the large amphibious operation to rescue UN troops from northeastern Korea.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on February 01, 2018, 02:23:15 pm
I was stationed in South Korea for over three years. I moved around a lot. Kim Il-sung was the leader up until I left. I worked with North Koreans that had come down during the war and to hear the horror stories they had to tell... I can't go into too much detail but there was a soldier that defected to the north because of a girl and he came back in a body bag. I used to watch Korean TV and with an antenna I could catch North Korean TV and South Korean broadcasts were on par with the 90's as much as American shows and often times more interesting than AFKN because that was only one channel. Seeing Pyongyang compared to Seoul was like looking 40 years in the past. there are no hamburgers or used to not be in NOKO because Kim invented "meat between two breads" the Kims are always fatter than the people. Has anyone else noticed this? He and the family and or the elites on a sliding scale have food yet the people suffer malnutrition.

OK what about Otto Warmbier? What should be the punishment of stealing a poster from a hotel? Yes there should be consequences such as a fine because you are breaking the law. Maybe even a 30 day jail sentence if the country is hardcore but how many years of hard labor? He was sent back because they the DPRK didn't want an American prisoner dying in their custody. But he still died. How many North Korean people are dying that we don't even hear about? Unfortunately we will never hear about them. Only their families will grieve privately. If you cause a fuss what will the Kim regime do? Send the whole family to a work camp? Even in the nineties you protected the defectors identity because the regime would punish the family. Mr. Warmbier died as a direct cause of North Korean Prison or work camp which is one in the same.

Actually Barbie is right because they are smart. they have cut off all information from the outside world such as internet, broadcasts and so on. the people hear only what the government tells them. But I will say that the ones that did defect, we took them in, fed them hamburgers and fried chicken and saw to all their maladies. To hear what they had to go through to get where they were was horrendous. Honestly they had no idea but was only following a "fairytale" so their situation must have been really bad to listen to someone else about the free world.

Has anyone ever heard the term, "Drunk with Power"? That is what the Kim Dynasty reminds me of. But a lot of North Korean defectors are the equivalent of Witness Protection for folks in the US that need protection from far reaching arms. Just a thinker there.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on February 03, 2018, 03:08:19 pm
I was stationed in South Korea for over three years.

Yes. As I know, there are a few Susans members here who once stationed in S. Korea. Seoul is a very cold city in winter, and a humid and hot city in summer. I hate the climate there.

My first son will go to a military training camp next week for obligatory military service next week. He will be in the army for 18 months. Although living conditions in the S. Korean army have been greatly enhanced during the past 30 years, I still worry about my son. All parents who have sons face the same feeling as me. He may be dispatched in an area near the DMZ, which is notorious for severe winter weather. Also I sometimes think about a possible war or a skirmish. I will go with him next week by flight, train and then taxi to the camp. One good thing is that he will certainly come home with a stronger spirit (he is now playing computer games every day).

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on February 03, 2018, 05:22:11 pm
I can't go into too much detail but there was a soldier that defected to the north because of a girl and he came back in a body bag.
Yes.  That happened when I was there in 1982 and he was in my battalion.  For about a week after he went over he was on the giant loudspeakers reading NK propaganda and calling us things like capitalist running dogs, LOL.  That was good entertainment for us during night ambush patrols in the DMZ.

They made him a captain in the NK Army.  Then in 1986, he reportedly drowned in a swimming accident. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Kylo on February 06, 2018, 07:07:19 am
It looks to me like what NK wants (and has done for a while now) is to develop enough nukes so that it can eventually march right on in into SK and assimilate it while the rest of the world's countries look on and figure it too much hassle/dangerous to intervene.

Unfortunately the time has passed now where the US (or China etc.) could have intervened before they had nukes. Even worse the last few presidents before this one either tried to bribe NK not to develop nukes, or actually gave them nuclear material - and on every occasion NK took the goodies and pretended not to develop nukes but apparently kept on doing it. They were helped along by a country they are still technically at war at, and everyone put their head in the sand. At no point as far as I know has NK ever really given up on its dream of a single Korea. When that happens they will absorb all the tech and resources of the South.

I hate to say it as I'm not a fan of swanning into other countries and deposing their leaders but they should have been dealt with a long time ago. We knew they were going to be a problem and they get a bigger problem ever year.
I've read a little on NK and there's not much hope of any change coming from within. The population is underfed and and cut off from any mainstream ideas or knowledge from the outside world. Even if they were inclined to revolt against the establishment, the chances they would even want to is thin. The regime is glorified at every opportunity, the outside world demonized, and America is the convenient eternal enemy used to terrify the population with. It's like the ruling family got a copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four and used it as a how-to. When you read the stories or novel accounts of survivors who managed to escape, you realize just how defunct the escapees feel when they enter the outside world and see the Dear Leader is not a literal god and cannot actually hear their every thought. They often they have difficulty adjusting to a new life outside of NK. The only thing they can really do is tell their stories.

The regime has its own population held hostage with literal guns pointed at Seoul's head, and one day it will more than likely attempt an invasion of the South. When that happens, we can either look the other way again and leave SK to its fate, or enter war with the North. But this is a situation that should never have got this far, like a spoiled and violent kid outgrowing its own parents it is going to haunt us. I know the area is one we've never been keen on re-entering but I am sure they will step up their game once they feel even more powerful. Some people seem to be naive enough to think once they get all the nukes they want they will be "placated". I think that is extremely unlikely.
Title: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on February 06, 2018, 10:49:35 am
If they ever do invade South Korea then I’m confident that South Korea would win even if their allies failed to intervene.  It might be costly, but they would win.

The South Korean military is first rate, very well trained, and fully modernized.  Maybe few people know but South Korea sent two full Divisions to Vietnam as our ally during that war, the White Horse and Tiger Divisions, as well as a Marine Brigade and various support units.  Their reputation with the American Army as well as with the enemy was that they were extremely effective and fearsome in combat.  http://talkingproud.us/Military/ROKVIetnam/ROKVIetnamIntro.html

The situation now is entirely different than it was in 1950 when South Korea, as well as the USA, was totally unprepared to defend itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on March 06, 2018, 02:29:40 pm
Yes.  That happened when I was there in 1982 and he was in my battalion.  For about a week after he went over he was on the giant loudspeakers reading NK propaganda and calling us things like capitalist running dogs, LOL.  That was good entertainment for us during night ambush patrols in the DMZ.

They made him a captain in the NK Army.  Then in 1986, he reportedly drowned in a swimming accident. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh it has happened more times than what you think. A solider meets a pretty Korean Girl and then next thing they are doing is defecting to the north. But it is always the same ol' story though in that they died and were sent back in a body bag.

Seriously though, Korea was a sucky station until you got there and then learned a little. I was stationed in the US before I ETSed and Korea was better than my last six months stateside. I requested Germany because my Recruiter told me to. My Drill Sergeants and other instructors laughed at me when I told them there must be some mistake. After being in Germany and Europe for a little while Korea is where you want to go. There is history no matter where you are stationed. You need to have respect instead of contempt for anyone anywhere. I have heard stories about the Pusan Perimeter in the first days of the "war" from Koreans that were actually fighting along with the UN and Americans. He came from North Korea with his family at the age of 16. Pusan was a gravy job but in actuality it will be just like it was in the fifties and probably the last hold out if the north ever invades. After catching North Korean TV even in the early nineties compared to shows on South Korean TV it was like watching TV from the 40s from NK to watching soaps, game shows and so on in South Korea. Anyone that was there in the nineties, who don't know Nami's song Like an Indian Doll or Lee Sung Chul and Magi Mac Concert? I don't have Korean letters on my QWERTY board but I still remember the songs. I liked Korea and loved the far east and why I was stationed there for so long.

That one dude I was telling you all about that was from North Korea, taught me a lot about Korea. He hated the Kims. Actually he is the reason I was there so long. He worked for the UN. I had no reason the leave anyway and liked the culture. I still have cassette tapes from Korea. what better way to learn? What better way to learn and this guy was a hard ass. He would drop me off in the middle of Pusan, Seoul, Teagu, Weagan, Chinhae and other places and tell me to find my way back. Sometimes I did and sometimes he would have to come find me. LOL. He never could find me. But all I was just a civilian worker.

Korea was an experience and god bless the Korean people even the North Koreans because this one man was North Korean and his family defected. He and his family and I even met his father and mother appreciated me as an American. I respected them more because I was so young at the time. He told me to call him Hyeungnim if I am getting that right after 30 years. There is a lot I can't remember but I called his mom and dad the same as he did. After a while he started calling me "Yeodongsang".  It was somewhat accepted more than here and a little extra money never hurt anyone. Right? Yeah he knew about me.

I still don't eat everything off my plate because it seems kind of rude. Back then if you left hungry then the host or hostess did not provide enough food. So you always left a little on the plate and never ever leave your chopsticks in food not eaten. You always put them on the side. I am sure Barbie will testify to this. I loved South Korea. I wish I could marry a South Korean man and go back. I think that was the very first place I ever called home totally away from home.

I really miss South Korea and have for almost 30 years. I would love to go back and have a couple of times as a tourist. Now I am older maybe I need to dress totally for the part to maybe find a husband????

Damn I really don't know where all that came from? All I know is that I love South Korea and would live there in a heart beat if given the chance.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on March 08, 2018, 11:25:36 am
You always put them on the side. I am sure Barbie will testify to this. I loved South Korea. I wish I could marry a South Korean man and go back. I think that was the very first place I ever called home totally away from home.

Yes. You seem to know better than me regarding S. Korea about 30 years ago.

If you visit again, you will be surprised at the changes. Even I could not locate the house of my mother in law just in 10 years, as the landscape had been totally changed. If you visit Pusan again, you will not recognize any old building. Everything has changed or has been replaced. For example, now they are building these ugly skyscrapers in Haeundae, Pusan, which I have no gut to watch. A prefect symbol of cronyism and capitalism.

(http://db.kookje.co.kr/news2000/photo/2017/0808/L20170808.22003002918i1.jpg) (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt7tOfQqzt4Qw_g3LUag7sDLkwPt3VI0_hsBjhjPSZUWG1oqju)

What I can say is S. Korea is now more materialistic and capitalistic than the U.S. Some people at my generation miss the old period in the 1970s or 1980s, despite the ubiquitous poverty at that time. At least, the air quality was far better.

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Deborah on March 08, 2018, 11:54:52 am
One of my favorite memories was walking through the village in fall to visit my wife when the rice farmers stopped me and offered a big drink of fresh made Makgeolli from a big plastic jug.  I really liked that stuff.

On the other hand my least favorite memory was cutting across a rice paddy one night walking back to the camp and accidentally stepping off the dike and sinking into the muck halfway up to my knee.    that was a mess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on March 08, 2018, 01:22:36 pm
Well hon they are going through the same growth that LA did in the early sixties. Hell it was bad in the early nineties. We had to drive around like... well... Americans did at the advent of the car too. anything would go. Watch a Beverly Hillbillies Show that was filmed in LA and you can't even see the mountains.

I was there five years ago and yes everything has changed. The one man has died. Others that I had worked with are still alive and it was hard to accept their hospitality because they all wanted me to stay with them. I think the most thing that I miss about Korea is the respect and friendship. OMG when I first got into country after my Soju experience in which I invited my KATUSA room mate which was not very popular but a big F U if you don't like it. What was I supposed to do? Not invite him? My Soju Experience happened in the Texas Club right outside the gates of Camp Hialeah which is closed down now. He even outranked me in uniform. Well not even in uniform even. This was the coolest dude in the world. Then I moved off post. But we still remain friends to this day. He didn't make much but after that he took me out to eat and drink on Hyundai Beach with his girlfriend. Yes KATUSAs usually had family connections with the US but this guy always asked me if I was going to the "Dining Facility". In the Army it was called a Mess Hall. I took him out quite often to eat Sam Gyup Sal up the street and the best damn cheeseburgers you could get. Those cheese burgers? OMFG. Wow. It may have been Ke Go Gi burgers but I have eaten that too over there. But even after thirty years the food is still just as good, the people just as friendly and even though I had to mourn some I got with a lot of others to drink and have a good time.

Pusan is like LA and there are a lot of people and it is surrounded by mountains so the pollution with the population driving is going to be a bitch. But hey Pyang Yang may be cleaner air wise but how many cars and busses you see driving? I have watched North Korean TV while north in Seoul and Osan and even in Pusan. and it was like watching South Korean TV was stuck in the sixties while South Korean TV was right along with the US.

LOL. I remember Watching Na Mi. OMG I wish I could have been born her. She is still gorgeous and still a woman. I was sort of part time when I was there. I had a lot of freedom. I won't go into a lot of shit but the military does hire a lot of people for a lot of different reasons but I had to go through basic and a sort of AIT like anyone else. Even north Koreans showed up at night clubs in the South and a lot of time trans. They really liked light haired women with light eyes and when drunk would talk a lot of shit. Yeah. Even South Koreans do the same thing. There are things that no one really knows. I was only stationed in Korea for six months and was "court martialed" but lived there for another three years.

Look this is the way the world works. I really fell sorry for the North Koreans. A rice ball for Christmas given by the government? It sucked because I heard first hand with pillow talk. I would have been killed in North Korea. And yes even back then North Koreans could speak English. I will not say anymore.

Much like I did in Vegas I did the same in South Korea but got paid about the same. Does anyone know they will kill trans women in NK? Trans men are not men there. They are nothing more than a "waste". But OMFG when they would infiltrate and come south and give into their vices? I do not ever want to se another trans woman or trans man ever killed again for being themselves again.

Even the US is not perfect but... at least if someone kills us they will pay for it through the justice system. In NOKO not so much. Just WIKI it. It is a lie.  The require now at least ten years of celibacy for military service. Ten years? Really? For military service?

Look I truly feel sorry for the North Koreans. They are starving Yet all the Kims were fat. Then the newest Kim wanting all the men to cut their hair the same as his? I really don't know how true that is because clippers are probably expensive in North Korea and barbers are probably a rarity but... what gives someone a right to tell anyone how they should look or dress? I see he wears the finest suits that NOKO can offer. But what about those that he chooses not to show?

Yeah my friends that I keep in touch with and when I visit every now and then tell me all the stuff and I see. The pollution sux so they are going to have to do things different like LA did.

OMG I am crying now because I miss it so much. What about marriage equality now in South Korea? I would if I could. I could live there forever married to a Korean man.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on March 08, 2018, 01:32:50 pm
One of my favorite memories was walking through the village in fall to visit my wife when the rice farmers stopped me and offered a big drink of fresh made Makgeolli from a big plastic jug.  I really liked that stuff.

On the other hand my least favorite memory was cutting across a rice paddy one night walking back to the camp and accidentally stepping off the dike and sinking into the muck halfway up to my knee.    that was a mess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rice beer. Wow. What about the small bottles of Yogurt that you could drink? Wow that was good too with the small cans of 7 Up. Acrually I didn't care for "Jungle Juice" too much which my Airborne friends loved. I liked the Soju mixed with a drink like 7Up and the yogurt. I forget what they called that but it was rare with Americans. Nah. I ain't really forgetting but won't say.

You know it is like the difference between Kimchee and Kok Dui. I liked Kok Dui better than Kimchee. I always drank OB when there. Hell it is as good if not better than Budwieser.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on March 14, 2018, 07:57:40 pm
LOL. I remember Watching Na Mi. OMG I wish I could have been born her. She is still gorgeous and still a woman. I was sort of part time when I was there. I had a lot of freedom. I won't go into a lot of shit but the military does hire a lot of people for a lot of different reasons but I had to go through basic and a sort of AIT like anyone else. Even north Koreans showed up at night clubs in the South and a lot of time trans. They really liked light haired women with light eyes and when drunk would talk a lot of shit. Yeah. Even South Koreans do the same thing. There are things that no one really knows. I was only stationed in Korea for six months and was "court martialed" but lived there for another three years.

Yes. I still remember Na Mi, who was very popular at that time around 1985. My sister's name was the same, and some people joked about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-nZP5Hj2tc

Nowadays the expectation of a permanent peace in the Korean peninsula is high here, but we know very well that it will not be easy at all with a lot of twists. I pray that the president of the U.S. will not be impeached. He is a surprising gift to both S. and N. Korea people. I hope we see some miracle soon.

barbie~~

Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on March 14, 2018, 08:11:02 pm
One of my favorite memories was walking through the village in fall to visit my wife when the rice farmers stopped me and offered a big drink of fresh made Makgeolli from a big plastic jug.  I really liked that stuff.

Yes. I love drinking Mageolli. Nowadays diverse local brands are available. A disadvantage of it is that it will not last more than 2 weeks, although a few can last a few months in the refrigerator. Red wine can last several years, but even canned Makgeoli hardly lasts a year. Most commercial Makgeolli brands contain artificial sweeteners such as aspartame for mass production, and I prefer a few local brands without any additive.

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on March 20, 2018, 01:34:15 pm
Barbie, Me too. For all it is worth at least President Trump has gotten farther than any other president since the armistice was signed splitting the 38th Parallel more or less and creating the DMZ. I would love to see Phyongyang wit the same amount of traffic as Seoul. You can go to any youtube video and compare the difference. Hyundai, Daewoo, and a lot of other corporations come from South Korea. What comes from North Korea? I was totally in awe when I got in country and went out that night on my first "Soju experience", that is kind of a right of passage first night at your duty station. It actually reminded me of LA or NYC. Even on satellite pics at night North Korea is pretty dark compared to South Korea. I have heard so many horror stories from North Korean defectors and what they had to endure. Not only endure but what they had to lose. Not just them but their families. I would love to see both Koreas united but not under a Kim Regime.

So maybe there is a little hope now that the Kim now and future Kim no we are tired of playing the games. I doubt we will ever see reunification but at least South Korea may live in peace without the constant knowledge that the north may invade.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on March 28, 2018, 03:03:58 pm
Barbie, Me too. For all it is worth at least President Trump has gotten farther than any other president since the armistice was signed splitting the 38th Parallel more or less and creating the DMZ. I would love to see Phyongyang wit the same amount of traffic as Seoul. You can go to any youtube video and compare the difference. Hyundai, Daewoo, and a lot of other corporations come from South Korea. What comes from North Korea? I was totally in awe when I got in country and went out that night on my first "Soju experience", that is kind of a right of passage first night at your duty station. It actually reminded me of LA or NYC. Even on satellite pics at night North Korea is pretty dark compared to South Korea. I have heard so many horror stories from North Korean defectors and what they had to endure. Not only endure but what they had to lose. Not just them but their families. I would love to see both Koreas united but not under a Kim Regime.

So maybe there is a little hope now that the Kim now and future Kim no we are tired of playing the games. I doubt we will ever see reunification but at least South Korea may live in peace without the constant knowledge that the north may invade.

Yes. I can see a glimpse of hope in the near future, at least some economic cooperation.

Clearly N. Korea has two advantages: 1) the yet undeveloped and unpolluted nature, 2) labor power. S. Korea desperately needs the two. Any possible economic cooperation between the 2 Koreas will boost the economic growth of the both countries. Many mountains and beaches of N. Korea can attract millions of tourists not only from S. Korea but from other countries, too.

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: Jenntrans on April 02, 2018, 04:20:40 pm
As for the unpolluted? I can't really say. As for the labor power? Even in South Korea, the people know how to work hard. But it is not forced labor though.

But to get unpolluted nature, you have to live among it and with it instead of against it. Cities will always be polluted with waste and industries and just smog itself from the amount of people driving vehicles. I am part Native American and even now a lot don't follow the guidelines set forth by nature. Do I really need to go to a one hundred acre multiplex to see a movie and be entertained for what, two hours? Do I really need to shop at a mall or can I buy the same shoes and clothes on Main Street with just a sidewalk between the grass and trees if they let them grow? I will pay a little more.

Barbie, pollution happens everywhere and not to sound like a globalist but what happens in China effects the West Coast because of the atmosphere and the way the winds works in the northern hemisphere. As for labor? No one wants to seem to work or start at the bottom anymore. I have a nephew that went to college and actually thought he would be making 100 thousand per year. He was sadly mistaken.

I would love to see Korea reunified but not in communism though. That does not seem to work forever and total capitalism doesn't either because you get bubbles that burst.

Hopefully both countries will be able to get along, trade between one another and those in the south that have family in the north and vice versa can cross the DMZ and reunite and reconnect with one another.

One good thing is that North Korea is holding a K Pop concert. Maybe they like K Pop now after the south blasted it across the DMZ. Hell I always liked it and still have cassettes. I used to watch Korean TV over AFKN shows.
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: barbie on May 02, 2018, 07:25:08 am
As for the unpolluted? I can't really say. As for the labor power? Even in South Korea, the people know how to work hard. But it is not forced labor though.

Big companies here have moved their factories abroad, especially to Southeast Asia and China, because of high labor cost here in S. Korea. The average labor cost in N. Korea is every far lower than that of Southeast Asia and China. The close distance between S. and N. Korea will save a lot of money in transportation. The labor power of N. Korea is so much attractive to S. Korea.

Now people here are talking enthusiastically about possible tourism in N. Korea after the historic summit between the 2 Koreas. One mountainous area of N. Korea was particulary mentioned by the S. Korean president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaema_Plateau

(http://cdn.ppomppu.co.kr/zboard/data3/2018/0331/m_20180331082400_lehqiecu.jpg)

That plateau is comparable to the Alps. The dream will come true, hopefully.

barbie~~
Title: Re: I'm afraid of North Korea
Post by: MaryT on May 02, 2018, 09:02:49 am
I think that recent developments, especially the shared Winter Olympics and the summit meeting between North and South Korea, are really good news.  I hope that they can keep up the momentum. 

It could still be a problem that North Korea does not have a democracy even by China's standards.  I do sometimes feel somewhat sorry for Kim Jong-Un, though.  Dictators don't always have as much real power as outsiders think.  It seemed to me that he may have been a young man who did not ask for total power but felt that he dared not dismount the tiger.

Still, good news is good news.  There is no room for complacency, though.  Three years after the Berlin Olympics, and less than a year after the summit in which Neville Chamberlain announced "peace in our time", WW2 began.