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News and Events => General News => Topic started by: AnneK on April 03, 2019, 05:55:01 am

Title: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: AnneK on April 03, 2019, 05:55:01 am
Quote
On Monday, a group of anonymous Google employees published an open letter, demanding the tech giant pull the appointment of Kay Cole James, the president of the Heritage Foundation, from an AI advisory board, over her alleged anti-trans, anti-gay views.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/367540/google-workers-protest-conservative-thinker-on-ai-board?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=whatsnewnow&utm_medium=title[/url

PC Mag
By
Michael Kan
April 1, 2019 5:32PM EST (https://www.pcmag.com/news/367540/google-workers-protest-conservative-thinker-on-ai-board?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=whatsnewnow&utm_medium=title)
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Ann W on April 03, 2019, 09:08:39 pm
I agree with Joanna Bryson. Silencing points of view that disagree with ours is stupid.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: AnonyMs on April 03, 2019, 09:18:57 pm
Some views need to be silenced, otherwise ours will. It's known as the Paradox of Tolerance.

The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Haley Conner on April 08, 2019, 08:52:01 am
The mission of the Heritage Foundation is to silence and undermine the voices and rights of the LGBT community, so imo, they do not deserve to be heard.  I always say, a persons liberty extends only as far as it encroaches on the liberty of another.  The heritage foundation wants to move that line for LGBTs.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Michelle_P on April 08, 2019, 02:51:24 pm
Google’s AI work includes stuff for personnel decisions, HR support, and some experimental work on medical diagnostics.

I am not entirely sure I want a representative of the Heritage Foundation having any input for this sort of work.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Matinaz on December 19, 2019, 08:50:23 pm
It is important information.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: KathyLauren on December 20, 2019, 08:42:17 am
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Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Complete on December 20, 2019, 12:35:28 pm
The mission of the Heritage Foundation is to silence and undermine the voices and rights of the LGBT community, so imo, they do not deserve to be heard.  I always say, a persons liberty extends only as far as it encroaches on the liberty of another.  The heritage foundation wants to move that line for LGBTs.

I see this as a very parochial and highly misleading and intolerant statement.

summary
A guide to building an America where freedom, opportunity, prosperity, and civil society flourish.
   

Copied from the Heritage Fndn.  website
The Heritage Foundation formulates policies that promote free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense. Heritage does not support policies that deviate from these principles, nor are our recommendations ever influenced by donations or outside political pressure.
1) The federal government exists to preserve life, liberty and property, and it is instituted to protect the rights of individuals according to natural law. Among these rights are the sanctity of life; the freedom of speech, religion, the press, and assembly; the right to bear arms; the right of individuals to be treated equally and justly under the law; and to enjoy the fruits of ones labor.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: zirconia on December 20, 2019, 11:35:45 pm
Hi, AnonyMs

Some views need to be silenced, otherwise ours will. It's known as the Paradox of Tolerance.

Thanks... the link finally gave me the source. I see the paraphrase is from philosopher Karl Popper's 1945 The Open Society and Its Enemies.

As his personal philosophical view it's of course as valid as any concept proposed by any other philosopher. However, the weaponization I've seen lately has made me personally very uncomfortable.

Wielded skillfully the concept seems ideal for expanding any group's influence ad infinitum by simply using the following loop:
Given time and patience this makes it possible to silence all opposition.

I wonder how many of those who brandish it also base the rest of their ideology and conduct on the entirety of Popper's work. Doesn't not doing so somewhat resemble using a single cherry picked bible verse to support one's own agenda?
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Complete on December 21, 2019, 10:04:33 am
Hi, AnonyMs

Thanks... the link finally gave me the source. I see the paraphrase is from philosopher Karl Popper's 1945 The Open Society and Its Enemies.

As his personal philosophical view it's of course as valid as any concept proposed by any other philosopher. However, the weaponization I've seen lately has made me personally very uncomfortable.

Wielded skillfully the concept seems ideal for expanding any group's influence ad infinitum by simply using the following loop:
  • Proclaim lofty progressive ideals
  • Claim to be suffering of discrimination
  • Claim opponents to be intolerant
  • Establish that their intolerance is the type that is intolerable
  • Repeat
Given time and patience this makes it possible to silence all opposition.

I wonder how many of those who brandish it also base the rest of their ideology and conduct on the entirety of Popper's work. Doesn't not doing so somewhat resemble using a single cherry picked bible verse to support one's own agenda?

Excellent observation. Would that so many here, might understand and consider the import of what you have pointed out.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Karen_A on December 21, 2019, 10:28:35 am
Excellent observation. Would that so many here, might understand and consider the import of what you have pointed out.

I think you are older than I, but while I was very young then, I can remember the some of the early 60s (which were a hangover from the 50s) and the consequences of conservative thought on society as whole that the 60's was a rebellion against...

So I do believe there some parts of conservative/far right wing idealogy that are too dangerous to be allowed to gain ascendancy again.

If you remember the 50's I don't see how, particularly being TS, you could disagree with that.

Younger people don't really understand how society was , and could be again, but us older folks have seen enough to have some idea.

-Karen
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Joelene9 on December 21, 2019, 03:37:15 pm
Tolerance is that. That includes tolerating the intolerant. That also means to have strength to counter the intolerant. Those who are weak will be ruled by the intolerant. Limiting tolerance will only bring on more and more new rules over time until there is no such thing. Google should talk. Try googling some things and getting nowhere. Then try googling the same thing from a different URL or Zip code of a different demographic, you'll get a different result.

Joelene
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Complete on December 21, 2019, 05:18:52 pm
Tolerance is that. That includes tolerating the intolerant. That also means to have strength to counter the intolerant. Those who are weak will be ruled by the intolerant. Limiting tolerance will only bring on more and more new rules over time until there is no such thing. Google should talk. Try googling some things and getting nowhere. Then try googling the same thing from a different URL or Zip code of a different demographic, you'll get a different result.

Joelene

So I guess that means that if you hate the current administration in the US, you support Google and all the other media platforms supporting the Resistance and muzzling supporters.
Sounds like a fast track to tyranny
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Joelene9 on December 22, 2019, 12:13:48 pm
So I guess that means that if you hate the current administration in the US, you support Google and all the other media platforms supporting the Resistance and muzzling supporters.
Sounds like a fast track to tyranny
Quite the opposite! I do not support Google and those who shunt tolerance in any way. Our media system is a mess. Tolerance does not mean support. It is when words go into a bad action or a threat of a bad action that goes wrong that is bad. Being a tolerant but a firm and honest society may sway those with bad intentions to do the opposite. That means that in politics and in the workplace.

Jolene
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: MistressStevie on December 22, 2019, 01:45:21 pm
We live in a marketplace of ideas, philosophies, and practices.   To live in that world sanely we must be able to adopt, or at least tolerate, both sides of a dichotomy.  For example: It is essential to believe my good example will influence others positively, but when it does not, I cannot withdraw or berate myself.   

Of late our our increasingly winner take all political discourse is ignoring the fundamental dictum of good politics making sure everybody gets a slice of the pie.   Engaging those with whom we disagree is falling out of fashion sadly.  This puts all participants in the position that their idea triumphs but in a possibly smaller and smaller bubble.  Independent of the other's position, if we believe the ultimate wisdom of our position, defending it politely and firmly strengthens it. 

The ideas that scare me the most are those most exclusionary of discussion, debate, or dissension for I may be but a slight misstep from being on the next excluded list not matter how popular the current strategies are.     
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Complete on December 22, 2019, 02:19:42 pm
Quite the opposite! I do not support Google and those who shunt tolerance in any way. Our media system is a mess. Tolerance does not mean support. It is when words go into a bad action or a threat of a bad action that goes wrong that is bad. Being a tolerant but a firm and honest society may sway those with bad intentions to do the opposite. That means that in politics and in the workplace.

Jolene

Thank you. Zirconnia pointed this out to me in a PM and pointed out my now obvious misinterpretation of your words.
I stand happily corrected.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Reelman on February 28, 2020, 10:32:51 am
Unbelievable how polarizing things are getting. If we continue this way, the extremes will pull so hard the middle of our society is just going to rip open.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Sinclair on March 15, 2020, 09:09:39 pm
Some views need to be silenced, otherwise ours will. It's known as the Paradox of Tolerance.

The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

That would be the end of our Republic. No Views need to be silenced, they need to be discussed and debated. My question to you is who is being intolerant when one wishes to stamp out opposing views? Sure, we could go the China route and put in a government that will not tolerate opposing views, and end up with things like the COVID-19 virus. The reason our country (USA) is special is that we tolerate all views, and debate them, and find some reasonable resolution to disagreements. We don't need a one view dictatorship. Many will die because China has a policy of tolerance with limits. They set the limits, no discussion, no debate, no compromise.
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Northern Star Girl on March 15, 2020, 09:28:19 pm
Unbelievable how polarizing things are getting. If we continue this way, the extremes will pull so hard the middle of our society is just going to rip open.

@Reelman
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Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Northern Star Girl on March 15, 2020, 09:28:34 pm
@Reelman
Dear Reelman:

If you feel so inclined please feel free to stop by the Introductions Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) to tell more members about yourself!
 
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Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.
Danielle
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Northern Star Girl on March 15, 2020, 09:30:55 pm
That would be the end of our Republic. No Views need to be silenced, they need to be discussed and debated. My question to you is who is being intolerant when one wishes to stamp out opposing views? Sure, we could go the China route and put in a government that will not tolerate opposing views, and end up with things like the COVID-19 virus. The reason our country (USA) is special is that we tolerate all views, and debate them, and find some reasonable resolution to disagreements. We don't need a one view dictatorship. Many will die because China has a policy of tolerance with limits. They set the limits, no discussion, no debate, no compromise.

@Sinclair
Dear Sinclair:
Your comments and thoughts are very well stated....
HUGS,
Danielle
Title: Re: Google Workers Protest Conservative Thinker On AI Board
Post by: Sinclair on March 16, 2020, 08:20:04 pm
@Sinclair
Dear Sinclair:
Your comments and thoughts are very well stated....
HUGS,
Danielle


Thank you so much for the kind response! I hate talking politics ...  :(

**hugs** back at ya sweetie!  :icon_chick: