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Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Male to female transsexual talk (MTF) => Topic started by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 12:04:36 pm

Title: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 12:04:36 pm
As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?

Always dress appropriately and modestly in a professional environment of course. 

I guess another way of looking at this would be, have you noticed femininely dressed women generally not taken as seriously as equally talented females that dress less femininely?  Would wearing dresses often in office settings, when weather permits, reduce the perceptions of many others of your genuine talent and leadership abilities? 

I guess the answer would be that it depends on a number of situational variables and who you interact with.  Your reputation, credentials, experience, and success should overwhelm such sexist perceptions, but...   

Chrissy


Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Gertrude on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 pm
IDK. Working at home now and I haven't transitioned, but normally in person at work, I wear a polo, jeans and sneakers in male mode. At home, it's different. pencil/suit skirts, blouses and flats, sometimes stockings. In this mode I would dress better than any women at my level at work if I dressed that way on campus. People tend to dress down unless they are a director level or even higher. I think, in my case, I would be taken more seriously and if was transitioning, I'd skip any kind of bifurcated garment at work altogether. I feel much more empowered as myself.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Northern Star Girl on May 14, 2020, 01:23:26 pm
@Chrissy
Dear Christine:
Take a look at my present Avatar... that is the kind of appearance that I have when I am at my office, where that picture was taken.  Generally a blazer or jacket and either suit pants or a modest skirt.   I will sometimes wear a modest knee length dress, but no plunging necklines or excess exposed flesh. 

In the dead of snowy sub-zero winter weather I will sometimes be seen with jeans, boots, heavy sweaters, and a winter coat and a hat and scarf. 
The key is to dress respectfully and in my financial advising business, conservatively...
.... then respect will be returned.   
HUGS,
Danielle



As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?

Always dress appropriately and modestly in a professional environment of course. 

I guess another way of looking at this would be, have you noticed femininely dressed women generally not taken as seriously as equally talented females that dress less femininely?  Would wearing dresses often in office settings, when weather permits, reduce the perceptions of many others of your genuine talent and leadership abilities? 

I guess the answer would be that it depends on a number of situational variables and who you interact with.  Your reputation, credentials, experience, and success should overwhelm such sexist perceptions, but...   

Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 02:06:46 pm
@Chrissy
Dear Christine:
Take a look at my present Avatar... that is the kind of appearance that I have when I am at my office, where that picture was taken.  Generally a blazer or jacket and either suit pants or a modest skirt.   I will sometimes wear a modest knee length dress, but no plunging necklines or excess exposed flesh. 

In the dead of snowy sub-zero winter weather I will sometimes be seen with jeans, boots, heavy sweaters, and a winter coat and a hat and scarf. 
The key is to dress respectfully and in my financial advising business, conservatively...
.... then respect will be returned.   
HUGS,
Danielle


Danielle,

Would you think that regularly wearing in professional settings conservative dresses that I would prefer to wear when at church services, certainly nice clothes, would be not received as well as blazers or business pantsuits? 

Christine

@Northern Star Girl
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Northern Star Girl on May 14, 2020, 02:21:06 pm
Danielle,

Would you think that regularly wearing in professional settings conservative dresses that I would prefer to wear when at church services, certainly nice clothes, would be not received as well as blazers or business pantsuits? 

Christine

@Northern Star Girl

@ChrissyRyan
Dear Christine:
At my office and at business meetings with my clients I have worn a variety... sometimes a business pantsuit as shown in my present Avatar, sometimes a blazer and a skirt, sometimes just a blouse and a skirt, and sometimes I will dress up a little more and wear a nice dress.  The key for me is to dress respectfully and mostly conservatively anywhere... business, church, social outings.   

As a trans-woman in a small conservative town I try my best to fit it, fly under the radar, and not stand out with "risqué" appearances and clothing choices.
If you recall from my posts in my Hunted Prey thread in March and April 2018 at a time before I came out as a newcomer woman in town, no one in my town even suspected my "secret" 
Blending in and fitting in with clothing, appearance, language and actions is a big factor in my acceptance as a responsible and respectable business woman... and a woman in general.
Danielle
Title: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 02:39:10 pm
@ChrissyRyan
Dear Christine:
At my office and at business meetings with my clients I have worn a variety... sometimes a business pantsuit as shown in my present Avatar, sometimes a blazer and a skirt, sometimes just a blouse and a skirt, and sometimes I will dress up a little more and wear a nice dress.  The key for me is to dress respectfully and mostly conservatively anywhere... business, church, social outings.   

As a trans-woman in a small conservative town I try my best to fit it, fly under the radar, and not stand out with "risqué" appearances and clothing choices.
If you recall from my posts in my Hunted Prey thread in March and April 2018 at a time before I came out as a newcomer woman in town, no one in my town even suspected my "secret" 
Blending in and fitting in with clothing, appearance, language and actions is a big factor in my acceptance as a responsible and respectable business woman... and a woman in general.
Danielle

Danielle,

This does make sense.  I guess I am getting ahead of myself as I am not yet full-time as you are; but, I did want to ask all of our ladies here about what they thought and have experienced on this issue of choosing a definitely feminine but still businesslike appearance over the blazer, jacket, pant suit look.  Not that those cannot look feminine, and of course you have a lot to do with how you come across besides what clothes you are in.  I would of course always look professional and dress modestly. 

It comes down to this:  I know I have enjoyed the professionally benefits of being male. 
I sincerely hope not to the detriment of any women.   But I am a woman.  I do not want to look more mannish than I absolutely need to.

I appreciate your sharing of your thoughts.  I do not want to overthink this.  I still have a ways to go on my journey also.

You are so sweet Danielle.  Thank you.

Chrissy


@Northern Star Girl
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 02:40:53 pm
IDK. Working at home now and I haven't transitioned, but normally in person at work, I wear a polo, jeans and sneakers in male mode. At home, it's different. pencil/suit skirts, blouses and flats, sometimes stockings. In this mode I would dress better than any women at my level at work if I dressed that way on campus. People tend to dress down unless they are a director level or even higher. I think, in my case, I would be taken more seriously and if was transitioning, I'd skip any kind of bifurcated garment at work altogether. I feel much more empowered as myself.


Gertrude,

Thank you for sharing with me.  :)


Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Gertrude on May 14, 2020, 02:54:54 pm
@ChrissyRyan
Dear Christine:
At my office and at business meetings with my clients I have worn a variety... sometimes a business pantsuit as shown in my present Avatar, sometimes a blazer and a skirt, sometimes just a blouse and a skirt, and sometimes I will dress up a little more and wear a nice dress.  The key for me is to dress respectfully and mostly conservatively anywhere... business, church, social outings.   

As a trans-woman in a small conservative town I try my best to fit it, fly under the radar, and not stand out with "risqué" appearances and clothing choices.
If you recall from my posts in my Hunted Prey thread in March and April 2018 at a time before I came out as a newcomer woman in town, no one in my town even suspected my "secret" 
Blending in and fitting in with clothing, appearance, language and actions is a big factor in my acceptance as a responsible and respectable business woman... and a woman in general.
Danielle

My therapist relayed a story of a client that was transitioning and was upset at the attention she was getting in public. Basically he told her, you're 48 and wear mini skirts with fishnets. Is that normal attire for a woman your age? People can, at least in the west, dress how they like and they should be able to, but I've never understood why some go through the teenage stage when they are 40s or 50s. I've always felt like I'd rather blend in as who I am. Being tall as I am draws enough attention.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: AllieSF on May 14, 2020, 03:27:42 pm
Chrissy,

It really depends on where you work and what is the dress code ordress norm that people wear, especially the women.  I used to work as a male in a professional office and wore suits and ties all the time.  I loved it and remembered and tried to practice what my brother in law once told me, in a professional situation always dress one notch better than those you are going to be dealing with.  That will gain you a little more respect, and when meeting someone dressed more casually it may impress them to give them the impression that you know more than they do and they better listen to you, even if you do not know that much. 

That was years ago and now we have dress casual and work casual and that offers a wide spectrum of types of clothes to wear.  If I worked in that situation, I think I would still try to dress that one notch higher.  Pantsuit, colored and tailored blouse, dress slacks with a similar blouse, low chunky heels for comfort or flats, and so on.  I would want to look better than most of them without going overboard.  I would also wear the occasional dress with or without nylons/pantyhose with low heels or flats.  Most of this is just common sense.

Then it depends on how one wants to be seen, or not.  I want people to notice me, so dressing right for the occasion is normally important to me, except for this darn covid lockdown.  I am very extroverted so I guess maybe the two fit together, dressing right and meeting new people!  If one just wants to blend, then take it down to their level and maybe treat yourself occasionally by dressing that one notch up.

How others may take you regarding respecting who you are and what you know (talents) can vary all over the place.  First we take on the role of a woman and thus will benefit from some female privilege and probably suffer from others' male privilege.  The other is we are trans and unless we truly pass at a distance and up close when conversing we go in with all the trans disadvantages.  People will notice us when we don't want to be noticed.  We are different because of what we went through and what we are now trying to do.

However, the rubber really hits the road when we can truly show that inside, intelligence, capability and personality, we do know what we are talking about.  That may take time and it can become a continual learning exercise as we interact with more company employees and clients.

So my best advice is to be and do you as best you can.  Try to fit in and prove that you are a reliable and capable professional.  Some people may never get it, but I believe that most will.

Good luck and enjoy.  Life is such a wonderful and complicated trip from birth to death.  Don't worry about the destination, just enjoy where you are now and where you are headed.

Allie
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Ellie_Arroway on May 14, 2020, 04:15:26 pm
I have not noticed any difference in how I am treated professionally since transitioning.

I wear sensible clothing, similar to any other woman in the lab, which is all appropriate office attire. What I wear depends partly on my peers. If they are dressed down, I also dress down. In software engineering, it does not always pay to "look better" than everybody else.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: AllieSF on May 14, 2020, 04:20:53 pm
Ellie,

You are so right about the tech offices.  My daughter used to work for Peoplesoft which was eventually bought by Oracle a major competitor to SAP.  She used to tell me about the foam frisbees and balloons always being tossed around the office.  I was thinking more about the old corporate office situations.

Thanks for reminding me,

Allie
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 05:46:33 pm
Chrissy,

It really depends on where you work and what is the dress code ordress norm that people wear, especially the women.  I used to work as a male in a professional office and wore suits and ties all the time.  I loved it and remembered and tried to practice what my brother in law once told me, in a professional situation always dress one notch better than those you are going to be dealing with.  That will gain you a little more respect, and when meeting someone dressed more casually it may impress them to give them the impression that you know more than they do and they better listen to you, even if you do not know that much. 

That was years ago and now we have dress casual and work casual and that offers a wide spectrum of types of clothes to wear.  If I worked in that situation, I think I would still try to dress that one notch higher.  Pantsuit, colored and tailored blouse, dress slacks with a similar blouse, low chunky heels for comfort or flats, and so on.  I would want to look better than most of them without going overboard.  I would also wear the occasional dress with or without nylons/pantyhose with low heels or flats.  Most of this is just common sense.

Then it depends on how one wants to be seen, or not.  I want people to notice me, so dressing right for the occasion is normally important to me, except for this darn covid lockdown.  I am very extroverted so I guess maybe the two fit together, dressing right and meeting new people!  If one just wants to blend, then take it down to their level and maybe treat yourself occasionally by dressing that one notch up.

How others may take you regarding respecting who you are and what you know (talents) can vary all over the place.  First we take on the role of a woman and thus will benefit from some female privilege and probably suffer from others' male privilege.  The other is we are trans and unless we truly pass at a distance and up close when conversing we go in with all the trans disadvantages.  People will notice us when we don't want to be noticed.  We are different because of what we went through and what we are now trying to do.

However, the rubber really hits the road when we can truly show that inside, intelligence, capability and personality, we do know what we are talking about.  That may take time and it can become a continual learning exercise as we interact with more company employees and clients.

So my best advice is to be and do you as best you can.  Try to fit in and prove that you are a reliable and capable professional.  Some people may never get it, but I believe that most will.

Good luck and enjoy.  Life is such a wonderful and complicated trip from birth to death.  Don't worry about the destination, just enjoy where you are now and where you are headed.

Allie



I think that dressing one level “better” in professional settings is prudent behavior.

I think I will want variety it is just I do not want to gravitate towards suits.

Certainly many a woman look nice in jackets and suits, it just would not be my preference.


Chrissy


@AllieSF @Northern Star Girl
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 05:48:37 pm
I have not noticed any difference in how I am treated professionally since transitioning.

I wear sensible clothing, similar to any other woman in the lab, which is all appropriate office attire. What I wear depends partly on my peers. If they are dressed down, I also dress down. In software engineering, it does not always pay to "look better" than everybody else.


That is a good point.

Chrissy


@Ellie_Arroway
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Gertrude on May 14, 2020, 06:27:56 pm

I think that dressing one level “better” in professional settings is prudent behavior.

I think I will want variety it is just I do not want to gravitate towards suits.

Certainly many a woman look nice in jackets and suits, it just would not be my preference.


Chrissy


@AllieSF @Northern Star Girl


Some people have Pinterest and Instagram accounts that do office fashion. I kind of like the vibe from this one, she's a lawyer.

http://ninethirtytofive.blogspot.com

She's on Pinterest and Instagram. I think one can wear skirts and blouses without the suit look. One can also have the blazer as an add on if one needs it during the day. Another look for business is the sheath dress.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 06:42:39 pm

Some people have Pinterest and Instagram accounts that do office fashion. I kind of like the vibe from this one, she's a lawyer.

http://ninethirtytofive.blogspot.com

She's on Pinterest and Instagram. I think one can wear skirts and blouses without the suit look. One can also have the blazer as an add on if one needs it during the day. Another look for business is the sheath dress.

Gertrude,

Thank you.

I never heard of a sheath dress.

The pages at the link shows some nice outfits.  That was helpful.  :)

Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Gertrude on May 14, 2020, 07:07:13 pm
Gertrude,

Thank you.

I never heard of a sheath dress.

The pages at the link shows some nice outfits.  That was helpful.  :)

Chrissy

Here is a red short sleeved sheath. They come in different designs and colors. I prefer princess seams as opposed to waist seamed.

(https://www.talbots.com/dw/image/v2/BCMM_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-master-catalog-talbots/default/dw28b0bd79/images/183079222/183079222_4619.jpg?sw=2000&sh=2000&sm=cut&sfrm=jpg)
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 14, 2020, 07:22:54 pm
Here is a red short sleeved sheath. They come in different designs and colors. I prefer princess seams as opposed to waist seamed.

(https://www.talbots.com/dw/image/v2/BCMM_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-master-catalog-talbots/default/dw28b0bd79/images/183079222/183079222_4619.jpg?sw=2000&sh=2000&sm=cut&sfrm=jpg)

Thank you for sharing that as it helped me visualize a sheath dress.

Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: EllenW on May 14, 2020, 08:33:08 pm
I do what Allie advised. I always dress a little more professional than my customers. It worked for me before transitioning and now after.

Ellen
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: noleen111 on May 15, 2020, 05:21:34 am
I dont think so,

I work in a retail environment within the back office, and i often wear dresses/skirts to work, with heels and sometimes even my 4 inch heels. I often wear hosiery  too. I am not looked at any different than anyone else. I love wearing pencil skirts or long flowing dresses. I actually rarely wear pants.

but for women the trick is to dress appropriately

dont have wear a too short skirt - if you skirt is very short, you will comments like she dressed like a slut.
wear a petticoat under your dress/skirt-  you dont want underwear lines showing and people can see thru your skirt.
Dont let your bra straps show - no off the shoulder tops
Dont show too much cleavage - I do wear v-neck tops that does show some of my cleavage, but mostly just the tops of my breasts..

My dress/skirt length, at work the shortest skirt I will wear is 3 fingers above the knee
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: VickyMI on May 15, 2020, 07:15:30 am
Dressing a “notch above” those you interact with Is spot on. 

I also worked initially in a field where suit and tie and only white shirts were acceptable.  The dress code has changed dramatically the last 20 years.  So a notch above means something different now.

I have many skirt suits that I wear less and less, sigh.

Title: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 15, 2020, 08:00:49 am
I appreciate all these helpful thoughts.

Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Oldandcreaky on May 15, 2020, 08:03:47 am
Danielle nailed it. Look around and synchronize. 
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Rachel on May 16, 2020, 10:01:33 pm
Hi, I am a Senior Director at a Hospital and report to the COO. We use to have team meetings every 2 weeks until March and now the team meetings are on-line. Funny how people relax their dress when on-line and at home.

I wear a top and slacks and flats. I wear sweaters in the winter mostly. Most woman that report to Senior VP's or to the COO wear a blazer or pants suit. I do not and it is a conscious decision and I may be a bit under dressed. Ok, I am underdressed. It is just incredibly difficult for me to wear a pants suit or blazer. On virtual meetings I am at work but those off site mostly dress down. The one female VP that reports to the COO wears a pants suit and the other female Senior Director wears a blazer.

 When it is not cold I wear a top. I always have my deltoids covered (it is required), it is just not allowed to have exposed deltoids. Bras must not show. Bras must be worn. Cleavage is not allowed. Nail polish is not allowed when working on a patient unit. Perfume is not allowed. If wearing a N95 or PAPR makeup is not allowed. 

We use to have a monthly in person leadership meeting (now it is virtual). I always sit near the entrance door to the auditorium. I look at the female leadership (90% of leadership) and take note to what they wear and their position.

I have worn dresses to work and it is black or dark in color and it must be below the knee to meet the dress code. I have worn a skirt but again below the knee and I choose darker colors. I really like wearing dresses but it is not practicle in the plants or on patient units. Dresses feel so free but unfortunately, just are not praticle where I work.

I hope this helps,
Rachel
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Gertrude on May 16, 2020, 11:21:17 pm
Surprised they have such strict dress codes at a hospital vis a vis hem length/color/shoulers. Not sure what your job entails either to make pants more practical. Do you do a lot of hands on work?
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Battle Goddess on May 19, 2020, 02:26:36 pm
This is such a great question, and I'm gratefully reading everyone's experiences as a person who has not yet transitioned professionally.

I find myself presenting different personae in my work. It's all theater. Sometimes I have to be the confident, smooth Salesperson who wears a suit. Sometimes I have to be a somewhat tweedy academic type who offers simple explanations and is maybe a little underdressed because that's how Professors do. Sometimes I get to be the Mad Scientist and go nerdy. Among my own kind of people, you lose cred without jeans and a t-shirt. Dunno what I'll do with all these.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: RandyL on May 20, 2020, 12:02:56 am
I've always worked in IT software, and dress has always been casual since the 70's. However as a male I usually wore collared shirts and khakis -- the one step better approach.

I'm not out professionally although some colleagues know. But in working with women I've seen every variation. All the advice above is good.

But one counterexample is also interesting. A talented female project manager who I worked with for over 5 years (probably about 45 years old) wore pretty outrageously inappropriate clothing all the time. High spike heels, low cut dresses, makeup well done but very noticeable, dangling earrings... But she was highly effective at her job, and also had an engaging, efficient and assertive personality. I would guess she also had a thick skin to ignore all the comments that went on behind her back. Just to say, you can kind of forge your own path if you want to and are willing to pay the price.

Sent from my dual-floppy Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Jane.Shannon on May 20, 2020, 01:13:40 pm
I love this thread!  I am an elementary school teacher, and I plan on going full time at the end of this school year.  I have been carefully watching what my female peers wear.  One nice thing about going full time somewhat slowly is that I have had more time to try outfits, and accumulate several of them.  I think the big item I am short now are shoes...but isn't ALWAYS the case.

Take Care,
Jane
 
Title: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on May 20, 2020, 01:16:12 pm
I love this thread!  I am an elementary school teacher, and I plan on going full time at the end of this school year.  I have been carefully watching what my female peers wear.  One nice thing about going full time somewhat slowly is that I have had more time to try outfits, and accumulate several of them.  I think the big item I am short now are shoes...but isn't ALWAYS the case.

Take Care,
Jane


Thank you Jane! 

 :)

Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Gertrude on May 20, 2020, 03:15:18 pm
I don't have many female peers in the unit in IT I am, but I wouldn't dress like them. The guys are worse. It's a plus working at a university in that the dress code is loose, but that allows latitude both ways really.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Raven19812004 on May 21, 2020, 08:49:54 am
Tbh I will not dress modestly I will be a slut

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Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Maid Marion on May 21, 2020, 09:09:27 am
If they rely on you to get stuff done you may have more flexibility regarding your clothing choices.  Something more outrageous may better fit your job description if your work involves creativity or finding answers to difficult questions.
I just bought a pair of booties from Cole Haan that should be appropriate for work.  They are having a sale and go up to size 11.   I noticed the stuff I bought went up by $15; they may have given me really good prices as an incentive to become a customer.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Battle Goddess on May 21, 2020, 09:24:36 am
If they rely on you to get stuff done you may have more flexibility regarding your clothing choices.  Something more outrageous may better fit your job description if your work involves creativity or finding answers to difficult questions.
Very fair point. All the advertising Agencies I've worked, and the videogame company I was with, tolerated a great diversity of dress and body decoration for folks of all gender presentations when they worked in creative departments or engineering.

Those who worked with external Clients were expected to dress fashionably, but because we were "creative" companies, the cultures demanded we not dress conservatively.

It's all performance. Who wants a banker who doesn't look sober, conservative, and prudent? They darn well better be wearing a suit. And who wants an Agency that can't push the boundaries a little bit? Like I say, I just have to reimagine how to pull off my various professional personae in a new skin.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Raven19812004 on May 24, 2020, 10:35:03 am
Ok so I can understand where you are coming from so in a professional setting and place of work ethic yes I can see us being dressed modest but after work nope nope... I gotta have my d so I dress up as a slut to be treated like a slut...

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Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Rachel on May 24, 2020, 09:24:10 pm
Hi,

In response to your question. I am a Senior director and report to the COO.

 One issue I am having is that the Eastern Part of PA is locked down and I need clothes and shoes. I do not think Philly, Bucks and Montgomery Counties will reopen till August. Not to mention I need my hair and brows done.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Alanna1990 on May 25, 2020, 06:55:27 pm
you will be judged no matter what kind of clothes you wear, I would suggest to you to learn to make men do your will, maybe yes, a more revealing or more attractive way of dressing might make them think you're less capable, well, if they think that take advantage of it, don't feel offended, there's always ways to take advantage of it, I know so much about my job that nobody thinks I'm not capable of doing stuff, but that's when I take advantage, just flirt or be playful and they will be in your hands doing whatever you want
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Maid Marion on May 25, 2020, 08:03:32 pm
I'm small and petite, yet I rank way way up there in practical seniority.

I need clothes to that remind people of that. 

My wife realized this and opened the door to me wearing women's clothes.
She knew I was transgender but her fear of me not having a good job was
more than the fear of me exploring my feminine side.  Her parents never
had stable jobs.

Marion
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: RandyL on May 26, 2020, 12:58:35 pm
Interestingly I ran across this column published today in the New York Times. I'm not including a link, but you should be able to search it.

On Being a Trans Woman, and Giving Up Make Up

I have short hair. I don’t wear heels. Because there is no one way to be a trans woman, either.

By Meredith Talusan
Ms. Talusan is an author and journalist.

The final sentence reads:
I was a woman no matter how I looked or acted, because as long as gender matters to the world, I will always be a woman to myself.

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Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Dani lee on May 30, 2020, 11:05:57 pm
       I'd give both my testicles to have an office job, but that really wouldn't be a fair trade as I don't want them anyway. Where I live there isn't much for work, waitressing, farm work, or if you're really ruff the oil field or construction, I do the last. And warring a dress while working would just end badly someone would see something that they just can't unsee.
       Sorry that I couldn't help.
     Dani
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Debra on June 06, 2020, 11:49:22 am
This is an interesting topic for me.

When I first transitioned at work, I was learning to dress. I tended to try to dress casual (for the software field) and I experimented with what I liked , didn't like, was appropriate, not appropriate, etc.

For a while there, I found I would 'dress down' so as to 'blend in' and not have my trans-ness questioned.

At some point, I said screw that noise and started dressing more femininely. Dresses, skirt suits, heels, etc. Mostly exclusively.

At one job I did have someone spread a rumor that I was a 'transvestite', mind you i'd never come out to my employer or coworkers at this job. That rumor was a huge hit to my ego and my style and soon after I left that job.

I started at a new place and still kept up with my outfits the way I liked them mostly. One random day I wore suit pants or jeans or something and someone commented on 'wow I dont think I've ever seen you in pants' (implying I always wore skirts/dresses). Mixed feelings about these types of comments. On one hand I felt like '<not allowed>, do they assume I'm trans?' but on the other hand I felt like 'That's right. I like dresses and style.'

Over the years I've come to OWN the fact that I like to dress nicer than most software developers. And every new job I tend to have to 'train' everyone to realize that yes 'she is always dressed nice'. At my latest job they had a fun 'fancy friday' competition and I kept winning it so I opted to become one of the judges instead lol.

As for respect, I feel like unfortunately yes, people who have not worked with me and see me for the first time often judge me like I'm some bimbo.....BUT just like training people to get used to seeing me wearing nice clothes, people who work with me come to understand very quickly that I'm not just sharp but also that I don't take <not allowed> from people. haha

What's my point? I guess live your life. I tell myself over and over, I didn't transition to dress down in jeans and tees lol. But everyone has their own style and life. Find yours. <3
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on June 06, 2020, 12:08:48 pm
Thank you ladies for the continued informative discussion.

   :)  :)


Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Karen_A on June 06, 2020, 06:17:04 pm
If someone is readable vs not or everyone "knows" vs not, does that change how one should dress at work in a professional position?

-Karen

Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: RandyL on June 06, 2020, 06:24:55 pm
If someone is readable vs not or everyone "knows" vs not, does that change how one should dress at work in a professional position?

-Karen
If it were me, if I'm readable or everyone knows, I might want to compensate by dressing up a notch. Professionally of course, not evening attire.

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Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: herekitten on June 08, 2020, 10:10:05 am
My personal experience is that it has NOT affected it all.  I dress professionally and femininely -- but always always always dressed above my job level. Even pantsuits can be feminine depending on fabric, accessories and what you've paired with it. I feel that if anything, it has enhanced my career.  What am I wearing today? Ivory silk linen cuffed dress pants with a pink stripe blouse with french cuffs. For shoes?  My flat pointy nude lace weitzmans.  Very feminine, yet very professional. You get the picture.  I'm a fan of Jane Fonda's wardrobe on Grace and Frankie.  Feminine yet professional.
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Pammie on June 08, 2020, 04:31:57 pm

What's my point? I guess live your life. I tell myself over and over, I didn't transition to dress down in jeans and tees lol. But everyone has their own style and life. Find yours. <3
This sums it up for me. My styles have evolved over the last 3 years and I dress smarter than most of my colleagues but for me I also want to feel good!’
I love feminine clothes and don’t offer wear jeans but sometimes certainly


I opened the door and the light shone in
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Ellie_Arroway on June 08, 2020, 04:35:41 pm
This sums it up for me. My styles have evolved over the last 3 years and I dress smarter than most of my colleagues but for me I also want to feel good!’
I love feminine clothes and don’t offer wear jeans but sometimes certainly

I have two pairs of lovely purple jeans that look great! They are women's jeans and I remember being really tempted by them in the shop before I knew I was trans, so of course, when I started transitioning, I had to have them!

The only complaint I have about them is the usual one about female clothes - the pockets aren't big enough! - E
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: RobynD on June 08, 2020, 04:52:34 pm
I've been self-employed for the last four years exclusively, with business ownership going back years before that. Nevertheless, I have faced discrimination from customers, suppliers, and business partners.

The fact that I expected it to a degree, did not fully cover the pain and general angst about the changes. Some of this came because of the circles of people I dealt with (conservative etc.) some of it came from general a general busy-body sort of attitude and gossip from "friends" and former coworkers.

Still, I continued on and have never stopped working independently. I dress pretty casually for most of work which does not put me in front of clients or in meetings very often. When I do have to dress it up, I go with a feminine power-suit or an oxford top and chinos, boots, and the like. Pretty standard business-wear for this geography and culture.

When I'm not dressing up, I'm often in jeans and T's and boots, leather jackets with dresses two to three times a week. In summer at times I will go to the office in shorts and sandals. I like my style a lot. My soon to be wife and I share each other's clothes a lot so that has pretty much doubled both of our wardrobes.
Title: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on June 13, 2020, 08:27:58 am
All of these ideas are well thought out and I appreciate all of your contributions to this thread so far.

 :)


Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: Maid Marion on June 13, 2020, 08:43:33 am
The wide option of feminine clothing options allows a greater opportunity to make a strong impression.

Assuming you aren't so big or oddly shaped that you have few fashion choices.
If you are my size the options seem endless.

Marion
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on June 20, 2020, 09:53:03 pm
The wide option of feminine clothing options allows a greater opportunity to make a strong impression.

Assuming you aren't so big or oddly shaped that you have few fashion choices.
If you are my size the options seem endless.

Marion


We do have lots of choices:  in a lot of fabrics, colors, textures, styles, and prices.   :)

Chrissy
Title: Re: As a woman, have you found dressing femininely has any downside professionally?
Post by: ChrissyRyan on July 12, 2020, 07:19:40 am
One common piece of advice appears to be to dress up one level in professional attire as compared to your peers.  That sounds wise to me. :)


Chrissy