Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Significant Others talk => Topic started by: Gill on July 22, 2006, 09:10:40 pm

Title: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Gill on July 22, 2006, 09:10:40 pm
Hi Everyone:

This article was recently brought to my attention.  It describes (in my opinion) a lot of what SO's experience not only while the spouses transition but their own transition as well.  The writer was extremely honest in her experiences and feelings.

http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html (http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html)

This article is not only meant for SO's but for everyone.

Gill



Moderator's Edit: This original post from 2006 contains a link that is dead. However, the link led to an article that is now archived. Please use the following link instead of the one above.


http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Chaunte on July 22, 2006, 10:30:07 pm
Gill,

Wow.....!  This is a great article.

Since coming out, I have seen my SO enter a couple of the steps described in the article.  Just dealing with the idea of my transgenderism has been a blow to her self confidence and womanhood.  I am trying to go at a rowboat pace even though I will be trastioning alone. 

Chaunte
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: HelenW on July 23, 2006, 09:45:02 am
Thank you, Gill. for pointing to this site.  :)  I learned and realized (and confirmed) many things from just this one article.  I'll be printing it out for my wife to read, if she feels like it.  I think it will do both of us some good if she does.

helen
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Jodi on July 23, 2006, 10:49:06 am
Gill-

Thank you very much for pointing out the article.  The article is timely and puts into words what has and is happening in out lives.

Thank you

Jodi
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Peggiann on July 23, 2006, 11:19:07 am
Oh yes Gill,
I had read this a while back to and it was very much the things some of us feel and go through. I have visited with others in chat and they all share so many on the same range of feelings. Thanks for posting it here. It 's a very good article.

Thanks again.
Smiles,
Peggiann
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Robyn on July 23, 2006, 05:00:30 pm
This article was written by a friend of ours from ElderTG.  She was in a panic when she arrived in our newslist for elders about 6 years ago.  Her husband since transitioned on the job and had SRS in Montreal almost 2 years ago.  She - the wife - survived, as has their marriage, and she went on to help other wives in the same situation. 

Robyn
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: lordloveaduck on July 23, 2006, 08:40:29 pm
thank you also Gill, in the 9 months since the operation, I have never read anything that described how i felt to a T!!   There were so many things in that article that i felt but could not express and it made it clearer to me. This site in two days has helped me more than anything has in the whole two years since i knew that my "hubby" was going to transition!  on top of which i kept saying that i could never find any one who"stayed" after the surgery. and well look at this there are a whole group of you who did!   It warms my heart, it really does.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: lordloveaduck on July 24, 2006, 10:12:22 pm
How i look at it  was like this, I'm not special "She " is , i'm just me and that is part of me, taking care of someone! now if i could take care of myself and get over feeling sad because of the transition that would be the easy part!LOL  but really, if you had a good marriage to start with, why not afterwards?

It was scary for me in the whole process to see how many wives did not stay . I still remember the night of Alicia's surgery and her roomate was on the phone pleading with her wife( who did not come for the surgery) to give it a try.That poor person all alone in a strange country, having the biggest thing in her life done and it should have been a happy time, not one to be pleading your case to your wife. That stayed in my heart. I just wanted to hug her and tell her that someone did care and was proud of her that she was doing this for herself.

still makes me cry.  I'm not saying i was always good or happy about the transition i had my moments and still do occasionally. Throw a person who is just going in to menopause , in with a person who is taking hormones and is the same age acting like they are in puberty and it can cause some problems!! LOL
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Dennis on July 25, 2006, 03:13:12 am
Loveaduck, I think you are an amazing woman. And you have a true love. A love that sees the person inside. My partner dumped me 15 minutes after telling her I was thinking about transition, which has always struck me as indicating a completely shallow love.

I know it is hard for a partner and I wouldn't blame a partner for not being able to stick it out. After all, it's not exactly what they signed up for. But 15 minutes isn't exactly giving it a shot.

Those who do give it a shot, even if they don't make it the whole way through, seem to me to be the people who really understand what love is. And that comment is for Gill, Pam, Amy, Peggiann, and all of those SO's who have stuck with their partners.

My hat is off to you.

Dennis
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Melissa on July 25, 2006, 10:29:39 am
How i look at it  was like this, I'm not special "She " is , i'm just me and that is part of me, taking care of someone!

What do you mean you are not special and she is?  Although I think everyone is special in their own ways, I personally don't think being TS means I'm special.  I don't want special treatment. I just want to move past this and get on with life.  This is just a part of who I am.  However, I believe I am special if you take a more humanistic approach.  I try to be caring and compassionate and many other things where gender is not even a factor.  I believe you are doing the same.

Melissa
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: lordloveaduck on July 25, 2006, 09:39:53 pm
what i meant was, i feel "she" is special because of all the turmoil and surgery etc that she had to go through in order to be herself.  I feel she is very special because of that. Sometimes i feel still that my role was somewhat inadequate.  But this is only me... I agree Melissa that we just want to live our lives and go on as best we can. Seeing my husband transition into a very beautiful women was very good , but hard on my esteem.  I think a lot of wives feel this and we have to learn that we too are important in this role.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Melissa on July 25, 2006, 11:15:33 pm
Try to think of it this way.  Transitioning from one sex to the other is more than just a transition of the sexes.  It is a life transition.  Almost every aspect of life will change and this not only goes for the transsexual, but also her spouse.  Life is full of transitions - some bigger than others - and this is just another of many that are to come.  Many people expect to have certain transitions - changing jobs, having kids, marriage, etc. - in life, but there are other transitions that come unexpectedly like a child dying or somebody finding out they have cancer and I think it takes an equal amount of strength and resolve to be able to make it through those as well.  Even though her physical transition is now complete, that doesn't mean the transition is over.  Heck, it may end up being lifelong and you are still feeling the shockwaves from it.  You have been there throughout her difficult portion of the transition, and now it is her turn to reciprocate.  I'm not sure if you are seeing a therapist right now, but I would highly recommend it if nothing besides to give you a neutral ear to listen.

Melissa
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Gill on July 28, 2006, 02:28:37 pm


Those who do give it a shot, even if they don't make it the whole way through, seem to me to be the people who really understand what love is. And that comment is for Gill, Pam, Amy, Peggiann, and all of those SO's who have stuck with their partners.

My hat is off to you.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis:

What I try to explain to people and friends is about support.  No one, absolutely no one can guarantee whether they will be together today, tomorrow, next week or next year.  But together or not I will support Steph through this no matter what.  40 years of togetherness does count for something.  It is so hard when we measure ourselves through the eyes of others, it's hard not to do that.  Getting through that is so damn hard, it is just ingrained into us from birth.  At times I still have to work at that, but where I am today and where I was 5-10 years ago, both emotionally and physically seems like a lifetime ago.  We had a friend who isn't with us any longer who always said "You learn something new everyday, makes life worth living".  I always thought these were great words (thanks Johnny H)  and have often repeated them not only to myself but to others.  Transition is learning something new everyday, and learning something new everyday makes life worth living.....

Gill

[edit]Fixed quote tags[/edit]
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Sheila on July 28, 2006, 03:56:06 pm
Robyn,
 I thought that was who it was. It really looked liked her writing. When I came back to Eldertg I was wondering where she had gone as our lives really paralleled each others. I would certainly like to get hold of her and talk with her. I tried some of the addresses that she had and they bounced. Maybe you could send me directly her address.
Sheila


Posted at: July 28, 2006, 01:48:06 PM

I will have to agree with the article. I know my wife and I have had the exact same things happened, no rocks or murders happened. We are still together and without the person who wrote that article, I don't think we would have made it. We talked about being patient and I'm glad I did. We, of course, don't have a "normal" relationship but it is a very loving one. We have both gone through some very intense life changing things in our life, not to mention the transition part. I could not have made it this far without my wife as she is my main pillar of life itself. Transitioning is rough all around and yes it is very difficult for the wife.
Sheila
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Gill on July 29, 2006, 10:16:28 am
Robyn,
 I thought that was who it was. It really looked liked her writing. When I came back to Eldertg I was wondering where she had gone as our lives really paralleled each others. I would certainly like to get hold of her and talk with her. I tried some of the addresses that she had and they bounced. Maybe you could send me directly her address.
Sheila



Just a note to everyone.  I know this is a small community, but if you do know this person, please do not publish her name or personal information as this is what she has requested when she gave me permission to post this.  Thanks.

Gill
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Sheila on July 29, 2006, 06:59:08 pm
Gill, You don't have to worry about confidentiality here. I would never repeat her name, unless she said it was OK. I'm very sure that Robyn wouldn't either. I have been in touch with her and we talked. It was lovely.
Sheila
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: rhonda13000 on February 25, 2007, 04:47:15 am
It was a terrible strain for both of us.

We married in 1997 and it was (is?) a 'marriage made in  heaven'.

Preceding that, I had unknowingly suffered hideously from high-intensity GID for over 30 years.

But in May of 2005, I finally understood what I was dealing with. Indeed, I told her that if I knew what I know now before we were married, we would never have married.

"I wouldn't have done that to you."

Not long ago whilst immersed in intense crying I said to her...oh God, I'm crying again..............

Oh crud, get a grip, girl........as you can see, I am still grieving over this....

...I told her that I saw us growing old together, the continuation of a dream come true--for both of us.

During transition, I would tell her that I would cease transitional progress after, for instance, initiating HRT. But then I would find myself  driven onward not a couple of days afterward.

This pattern repeated itself many times over and understandably, she assumed that I was just 'stringing her along'.

Well, things become apparent even through my hard head and I realized that trying to hold a stasis on my transition in the context of the merciless driving of my TS, was but an exercise in futility.

She eventually saw this too but what I think had eradicated any doubt in her mind as to how the TS was actually an irresistable DRIVING force was when the self-surgeries were executed.

Conversely, she also saw how much more joyful, more social and much more comfortable in social settings that I now was and generally much happier, now that I was transitioning into the true feminine.

I still get bitter that God in His omniscience, when he effortlessly could have interdicted our forming as a couple even before that process started, allowed she and I to marry when He knew that I would learn this about myself well after we were married.

He HAD to have had a reason. The fact that I am not cognizant of the why, is meaningless.

We're still together as I scribe these words and there is NO doubt that the love is still very strong between us, but what will transpire in our futures, is entirely unknown nor is it even open to speculation.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Tay on May 13, 2007, 09:47:17 am
Reading that article, I feel incredibly blessed that I met Sophie when she was being up front about all the challenges she would face in life and in a place where she felt safe doing so.  Same with Err.  I can't imagine going through years of togetherness only to have my "girlfriend" and "fiancé" switch places and become my boyfriend and my fiancée.  I'm glad, on one hand, that I have never known this challenge--that of mourning a loss while supporting a loved one--but on the other hand, I feel badly that I have never known it and thus cannot fully understand what you go through.

I think that all of you are very brave people.  I admire all of you for the strength you lend each other and for the strength you lend your SOs.  I've not posted in the significant others forum before because, well, though I'm a significant other, I'm also an androgyne.  I'm not sure I belong.  *shrug*  I have, however, been reading and admiring all of you for your strength and the support you lend your SOs.  You're all amazing people and this seemed like a good place to tell you how much I admire you.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: lizaard on June 11, 2007, 08:51:18 pm
I am so glad I discovered this site, this forum, and this article in particular. It is the first I've read that describes so clearly and precisely what I went through in the beginning - in particular, the sense of having one's basic sense of reality uprooted. (I know the sun will rise tomorrow, I know there will be death and taxes, and I certainly know him and who I am with him. Wait......I don't know "him" and apparently never did...do I know anything....?) That was the hardest for us to re-sculpt because it was lost in a flash, yet not enough time had elapsed to form a new union, a new identity.

Now that we have recreated ourselves in a new truth, the journey is not over for either of us. The big hurdles have been crossed - now the smaller, niggling, sometimes historically instincutual uncertainties that bubble up ofttimes seem like swimming upstream blind. Each one, like the proverbial iceberg (sorry for the cliche) is seemingly insignificant at first glance, but opens up a whole range of emotional and psychological origins. Once explored and understood, it's a as refreshing as walking from a small dark room into an open field of sunshine - little "aha" moments that bring insight and us one step closer to each other. But in the beginnning there is also the fear that this may be the one I will not be able to see through her eyes, to understand in the way she needs. Support - whether I come to a complete understanding of a particualr issue or not - is not in question. For her to continue to find her own personal truth which is her happiness is both our goals. I can't help but wonder, though, what will happen when she finds someone who can give her what I cannot - total empathy, in it's true sense. Will I have the courage to let her go and wish God speed? Or will I hold her back by clinging to protect my own emotional needs? I know what the right thing to do will be - but do I have what it takes to actually do it? An as yet unanswered question for the future, but a source of many sleepless nights in the present.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: ltg331 on July 17, 2007, 02:34:08 pm
dear gill, i read the link to the article u have read. it was wonderful. i am a girlfriend of a MtF. n we r struggling, not bc S is trans, but bc S is self destructive bc of it. S n I live in a small closed minded town. we have been a couple for almost 1 yr. S, in order to make $ for his transition, is doing some things that I think r morally wrong. I am trying to get advice from others on how to find financial support for me n my partner.  n to talk to people on how to deal w the mood swings that a trans goes thru.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: kisschittybangbang on March 19, 2009, 06:58:45 am
Wow. This article REALLY hit home, not the whole as a straight wife going into the Lesbianism thing, but the whole grieving step process. and it's so true. I am grieving the woman I feel in love with, but 'm sucking it up and trying my best. (the whole learning to fly thing is scary lol) and so much DOES change and right now I'm only in the VERY early stages of my partners transition, so the idea that even MORE uncharted territory scares the living daylights out of me. GAH! ^^; I'm really glad I read it though.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: colormyworld on April 17, 2009, 05:33:33 am
Wow. This has really helped me! Thanks for posting! My currently boyfriend (one day WIFE) is going to start the transitioning process soon, and all the unknown is kind of scaring me a bit. I know most people would be like "RUN,  THERE'S OTHER FISH IN THE SEA!" but I honestly don't want anyone else! Which is one of the reasons I'm a bit scared of what's to come, I don't want to lose what I have now because we are so great together. I know that it's the person I am meant to be with, and it will always be the same silly, loving, caring soul that I was drawn to, and even though the outer shell might be different, he's always been female on the inside, so nothing much is going to change, except she will be happier with who she is as a whole. 

I do think we can make it through this, but there will just be a lot of bumps along the way, I just hope all those bumps don't cause us to end up separating. I have terrible anxiety disorder in the first place which causes me to worry over and cry over some of the smallest things, so I end up freaking out way too often, about stuff I probably shouldn't even be worried about.

I truly feel that we are soulmates and we found each other for a reason. I really do support him 100%, it's just hard to show it all the time when I'm preoccupied worrying about every little thing!
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: heatherrose on April 17, 2009, 05:30:39 pm

Color my world? What hues shall you chose?
Perhaps to start we willl pull from the giant box
of crayolas, a deep crimson for a field of love
and as with a childs hand we'll scribble across
the page with a soft shimmering gold alive as
a sunrise proclaming the promise of a new day,
streaked with the truest of blue for commitment
and security...this is only the start, trust your
heart, it knows how to color the rest of your
world but I hope I was helpful from the start.

Peace and love to you and your love.

Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: colormyworld on April 19, 2009, 01:38:56 am

Color my world? What hues shall you chose?
Perhaps to start we willl pull from the giant box
of crayolas, a deep crimson for a field of love
and as with a childs hand we'll scribble across
the page with a soft shimmering gold alive as
a sunrise proclaming the promise of a new day,
streaked with the truest of blue for commitment
and security...this is only the start, trust your
heart, it knows how to color the rest of your
world but I hope I was helpful from the start.

Peace and love to you and your love.


Thank you! I don't know if you found that or wrote it, but it's beautiful!
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: heatherrose on April 19, 2009, 08:06:08 am


I was inspired to write it for you and your love.
Take care of each other.          ;)



Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Mrs Erocse on October 16, 2010, 12:13:23 pm
My husband came from a family of four boys and one girl. There was plenty of competition and testosterone amongst the boys. So when after 10 years of marriage he told me he liked to dress up in womans clothes, I knew that had to be a deep seated and sincere desire. It was not easy to confess and I could not think there was any benefit to expose that to me, unless it was very important to him. I, as a woman who loves being one, I cannot imagine having to wear nothing but jeans and a T-shirt through out life. Occasionally a suit, or button up shirt. I really desire to go shopping, buy interesting clothes and have fun dressing up.(I would totally raid Lucielle Balls closet :) ) Why wouldn't I understand that for him. He felt the need, he wanted it. I kept his secret and and it gave me new venues for buying gifts. I found it so fun to be able to come home with panties and nighties just for him. It was our secret.  Now 18 years later, he has let me know it is more than just dressing up. He gradually let me in on the choice he has made.  He is a transgendered woman. He recently came out for the first time. I didn't know about it and wasn't there. I was relieved and at the same time hugely anxious and stressed about it.I felt left out but (He is now she) she was right to suggest that she just could not do it with me. I understood that. I felt like that part of me that was so private is now in the open.
    I read this post and thought that allot of the things that it said were an acknowledgement of things I was feeling.I was going up and down and inside and out trying to figure out what I was feeling. I did not want her to come out. I thought what we did in private was enough, wasn't it? Do we have to change everything? She has been away now for about 3 weeks. Though I miss her it has been a growing time, a time of reflection for both of us. She has gone out several times. She sends me pictures. Every chance she gets. She is happier by far than I have ever known her to be. I am happy for her. She deserves to be happy and feel good. She is an amazing, caring, wonderful person. She loves everyone in her family and is always good to everyone in mine. She has been my best friend forever. Soooo...........
   I am not perfect by any means and she always puts up with me.That is wrong, she loves me nicely anyways. She knows me inside and out. Even when I cannot acknowledge something she knows what I am thinking. It is our life and (despite other beliefs) this may be the only one we have, my friend and lover deserves to live it the way she feels good in. I deserve to have my friend forever and feel good with her. So it shall be.
    I will do my best not to struggle with what others will think. I always believed you cannot please all of the people all of the time. So why worry about it. Sometimes I do but it is unproductive. Too simply put....The world should be a better place.  Everyone on Suzan's should feel great in the world. We as spouses should be allowed to feel accepting and acceptance in this world too.
    Thank you for this post. It did not fit the bill perfectly but it was a stepping stone for me. I appreciate all the time and effort everyone puts into sharing thier experiences with all of us.
     
   
   






Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: jamied on November 03, 2010, 02:24:10 pm
Thanks for the link, it really gives me a better idea of what my Judy is thinking and going through.  It's amazing that some of the conversations she related in the piece is almost verbatim of things Judy has said.

Jamie
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: envie on January 07, 2011, 03:57:25 pm
the blog covers pretty much every aspect of a transition within a marriage.
My spouse and I have pretty much overcome all the hurtles that were there and many of them really didn't apply to us like the fear of what other people might think of us.
However, after all that we have done we are stuck on one issue that may overturn all the good strides that we have done.
Namely you can change or open your mind but you can't change your heart like that. Sure there is companionship between us but we need romantic attraction in order to stay together as a married couple.
Both my spouse and I have realized we miss an emotional relationship with a man. She is missing a man I used to be and I am missing a man I never had. No one is seeking here a sexual relationship just a kind of emotional/romantic dynamic that happens between a man and a woman. What will happen remains to be seen but this is how the story can take a turn too.
In spite the unconditional love and support one might not be able to sacrifice the romance for the rest of ones life as it is the fundamental of any marriage.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: mellsupport on January 14, 2011, 12:04:15 am
Wow you took the words right out of what I am feeling. My husband wants to transition and I am supporting him 100%, but I need the romantic part with a man. He loves me unconditionally and we have a great life together...he is my best friend...but he will no longer be able to satisfy my sexual needs or be romantically involved with me. It's human to have these feelings, but difficult to deal with them.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Maddie Secutura on May 01, 2011, 10:50:39 am
I'm glad I read this article. It does put it into perspective that transition affects everyone.  Had I been married I would have had to tell her she didn't need to stay, that I knew it wouldn't be fair to her.  After all she didn't fall in love with me, only who I was trying to be.  In truth there is still a grieving process for me as well (and I suspect I'm not the only one to feel this way). I feel like my old self is a brother who died.  Part of me wishes he could still be here but our existences are mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: qUiRkY qUeEn on June 12, 2011, 08:23:10 pm
I am new to this site and new to these types of discussions. I am married to my husband and yesterday was my 6 year anniversary. He told me 4 years ago he wanted to be a girl & I began to get scared, insecure, very very hurt, & confused. Throughout our relationship he had acted manly and I never knew this deep truth within him ever existed. We just started counseling with a "MTF" counselor and she seems really nice, she is also a marriage counselor. I will do what ever it takes to support my husband in whatever decision he makes whether its cross-dressing, putting makeup on, the full transition. BUT I am scared of what we are going to be facing. I truly LOVE HIM and his personality, that to me is undeniable, but to feel the pain he has to go through just kills me inside. We have been together for a total of 9 years and he has helped me grow into a very strong and wonderful woman!! He was super strong, now he is super confused. I am doing what I can to support him & oh did I mention I am 8 weeks pregnant!!! :D Which I am truly happy for. If the society wasn't so hateful of transition I wouldn't feel so terrified.. I feel I could still be attracted to him if he decides to transition in all the positive ways. I hope this all make sense I just wanted to get this off my chest. Thank you for your time...
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: TreyLeeGamer on December 01, 2011, 01:54:56 pm
The link doesn't seem to be working anymore, and it's really sad that such a helpful article is missing.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: qUiRkY qUeEn on December 01, 2011, 07:21:42 pm
I felt the same way...  :(
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: help4me on January 15, 2012, 12:02:53 pm
i noticed the link was not working anymore either...
this is not new to me(well this site is)
when i met c. he told me straight out that he was transgender...of course the questions of hermaphrite or transsexual and all that...c. explained it to me...tho, c. is off and on all the time...we are going on 9 years now...i had a daughter m. from a previous marriage she is 13 and we have a boy who is 2.
c. has a tendency to switch back and forth often...i love c. dearly..always have...but honestly my daughter of course at this age is clustered to begin with. she says she understands but i know she doesnt.. she likes c. better as a woman b/c clothes and make up and all that jazz are talked about and c. actually interacts with the family. for when c. is a man, he is mean and bitter and i know it stems from having to surpress..
i dont c. realizes that changing back and forth is not only straining on her but on us as well.  she does become quite selfish...i do have a bit of jealousy cos i was a grunge kid and never wore chick jeans until i met c. i mean i did have a fabulous era when i lived on miami beach...that was the only true time i felt sexyi was more into partying at gay clubs in skanky clothes cos i didnt have to worry about guys being there looking for one thing.
i am glad i had that time b/c it gave me an inside to alternative lifestyles.
but i am sooo lost. we have 2 kids..c. is working but usually quits when c. changes to her true self. i am just beginning school again and i can not deal with having to leave our kids so many hours. b/c i would then have to work too. thing is c. loves our son..he is a bit of a strain on my daughter and is more than strict to her. but when i am not home, my daughter becomes the full time babysitter...it doesnt matter what c. is i have accepted that. tho c. does not realize that when she changes to her true self it is not only a change for her but ALL of us.
i love her but not the selfishness. stays up all night on weekends and sleeps the day away. she had promised to help rearrange the house. i ended up moving the bedroom on my own. i cant do the living room cos she is sleeping there. its to the point that my daughter gets disrespectful telling me to wake her up that is not only me in that house.
at this point i am a shell of what i used to be. i dont want to be who i was but i changed completely for her..removed my piercings along the way and if i do anything of the sort it is not tolerated. i dont like confrontation. i cant handle it...to quote a song
"i think i used to have a voice, now i never make a sound, i just do what i am told..."im 35 years old...
i am at a loss
sorry ive been venting all morning through this thread and chat...i am just so lost..and im supposed to be the strong mom...and i cant let depression take over cos my kids need me...
sorry and thanks at the same time...
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: HelenW on January 15, 2012, 02:55:05 pm
I think it's unfortunate that this helpful article was removed.  The "Women of the Beaumont Society" have moved to this address: http://www.gender.org.uk/wobsmatters/ (http://www.gender.org.uk/wobsmatters/)

I hope this helps.

hugs & smiles
Emelye
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: SandraJane on August 04, 2012, 04:41:20 pm
This article is no longer available. Please contact the Beaumont Society at;


http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/Index.html (http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/Index.html)


SandraJane, Links Staff, Susan's Place Transgender Resources
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Flan on August 06, 2012, 02:20:31 pm
This article is no longer available. Please contact the Beaumont Society at;


[url=http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/Index.html]http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/Index.html (http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/Index.html)[/url]


SandraJane, Links Staff, Susan's Place Transgender Resources

It's at internet archive
http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html)
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: SandraJane on August 08, 2012, 11:05:56 pm
It's at internet archive
http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html)

Thank You Flan!


This article is available through the Internet Archive

The article is available in its entirety here;

 http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html)

SJ
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Ksenia on August 23, 2012, 11:49:31 am
I have read the article and I sadly still want to run away. I love my husband the way he is not the way he will be if he turns female. I want all the stuff my grandmother and mother has a happy marriage until they die, retire together as a happily married husband and wife. The one thing about this though is our son he 4 yrs old and I don't want to leave him in it all. Please help me try and convince my husband not to change.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Sphaira on September 21, 2012, 10:42:03 pm
I have read the article and I sadly still want to run away. I love my husband the way he is not the way he will be if he turns female. I want all the stuff my grandmother and mother has a happy marriage until they die, retire together as a happily married husband and wife. The one thing about this though is our son he 4 yrs old and I don't want to leave him in it all. Please help me try and convince my husband not to change.

I'm sorry, I cannot help you convince your husband not to change. I can only try to convince you to realize that the person you love is not changing, just the shell that harbors the soul.

If only your son's sake, think of the person you love and fell in love with. The jokes, hand holding, and laughs you have had. So little of that is based on his gender, and while it will be incredibly difficult, you will be with the one you love and your son will have two loving parents.

We live in a lifetime where you can still have a happy marriage, retire, and die together, even if your husband changes. No one knows how your husband will be if he turns female, not even him! It is very scary, and imagine that it is something your husband has struggled with his entire life.

No one can convince another to change or not to change. We all have to do what we think is best for ourselves and for those we love.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Cleopatra on April 03, 2013, 11:45:27 am
This is an interesting article. Whilst it is my boyfriend that is transitioning I found it useful.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: cannedrabbit on May 14, 2013, 10:36:55 pm
I guess I am very lucky, because I do not feel this way AT ALL. Maybe it's because I've known about my husband's gender identity for most of our relationship. Maybe it's because my own sexual identity is fluid. But I actually find myself rather upset that so many people take the stance that this author takes. It makes me so angry that it's so hard to accept a loved one as WHO they are not WHAT they are. Sorry, I just really had to rant.  :-\
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: cannedrabbit on May 15, 2013, 07:58:31 am
After mulling it over some more, I really want to apologize if my last post came off sounding disparaging or hurtful in any way; that was, of course, not my intention. I absolutely respect those SOs who choose to stay with their transitioning partner despite personal prejudices. Prejudice is not an easy thing to overcome. I suppose I'm just frustrated and a little sad that there's not more resources for the folks who, like me, are supportive of their partner's transition from the get go.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Bad Girl on August 13, 2013, 12:16:37 pm
Hi Im new with all of this, my husband after 6 years is going thru a change he wants to be a woman and Im supporting him and helping him,he was the one who told me about this site. But Im not sure where to go to ask other wifes information. Can some one help me, please.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Jamie D on August 14, 2013, 02:57:45 am
Hi Im new with all of this, my husband after 6 years is going thru a change he wants to be a woman and Im supporting him and helping him,he was the one who told me about this site. But Im not sure where to go to ask other wifes information. Can some one help me, please.

This "Significant Others" board is set up for spouses, family, and friends of TG/TS persons.  There is also a "S.O. Peer Support Group" board in the subscription only area.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: TessaMarie on August 16, 2014, 10:19:33 pm
The Beaumont Society has a page with links to several articles written by SO's:

http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/for-partners/

One of the articles linked is the "Challenge" article that this thread is about:

http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/challenges/

The PDF copy of the article is at:

http://95.131.64.55/~beaumont/downloads/Challenges.pdf

The web archive link quoted in earlier posts still works.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Destiny Marie on September 17, 2014, 06:17:34 am
I tried to open this link as I really feel that I need to read it, but the link does not work at this time. Does anyone know of another link or where I can find it.
Thanks for all the love and information that I have gotten from you all in just the two days I have been here. I know that I will be here for the rest of my life.

Lots of love and hugs.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Destiny Marie on September 17, 2014, 11:11:53 am
I was able to work out the link and this is an awesome and inspiring article. I feel as though I could have written it as that is how my story is playing out. Although I have only been out to my wife for about a year, we are having the same conversations that I here so many other people talk about. I am so glad that I am not the first person in the world to have to do this as I think I would just end my life. I am thankful that I am able to discuss my feelings and emotions wit people that have already Been there and done that, I think God for all of you. 
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Clarissa on February 09, 2015, 12:44:27 am
Hi Everyone:

This article was recently brought to my attention.  It describes (in my opinion) a lot of what SO's experience not only while the spouses transition but their own transition as well.  The writer was extremely honest in her experiences and feelings.

http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html (http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html)

This article is not only meant for SO's but for everyone.

Gill

Great article Gill! My spouse is still having issues with my transition but she is slowly coming around. It was a hard marriage for the both of us.

But we still love each other and I think that's why we are still together. After my surgery when my time comes, who knows. 
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Beatriz on April 05, 2015, 12:06:58 am
I tried to open this link as I really feel that I need to read it, but the link does not work at this time. Does anyone know of another link or where I can find it.
Thanks for all the love and information that I have gotten from you all in just the two days I have been here. I know that I will be here for the rest of my life.

Lots of love and hugs.
The same happened for me... it just gives me a 404 error, the link needs to be updated  :(
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Tuyrar on October 08, 2015, 08:35:37 am
this part really is very true for me right now

Quote
When our men become women, the first thing that happens is that we grieve a loss.  Oh, I don't want to hear "you didn't lose anything - you gained a much better person."  One psychologist explained it to me this way: "Of course you are in mourning.  You did suffer a loss.  You lost your husband.  You gained a partner, friend, whatever, but you did lose a husband.  And you should expect to grieve that loss."  There are stages of mourning:  denial and isolation (pretend it's not there), anger (helplessness and vulnerability producing a lashing out - how could you do this to me?), bargaining (trying to regain control over your life), depression (worrying about the practical implications), and acceptance (finding an internal peace, and letting go).  These do not necessarily occur in the above order, and it is possible to be in more than one stage at the same time.  I went through every single one of those steps of mourning.  When I looked back on what I had gone through, I realized I had covered the full grieving procedure.  Now, it's hard enough to grieve a loss when a person has died.  Just imagine grieving a loss when the person is still there to remind you, every single day for the rest of your life, of what you "signed on for," and what you have lost.  Looking at the ghost of the person for whom you are trying to have closure on the grief.  That's really hard.


Looking at the ghost of the person for whom you are trying to have closure on the grief.  That's really hard............. so very very true
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: SophieSakura on December 08, 2015, 04:52:39 am
The link wouldn't open for me. :(

For some of the people commenting saying that their partner was shallow because of leaving them for transitioning.  This is not fair.  Your ex partner is allowed to have their own sexuality and go out with who they want to.  Their sexuality is just as real as your gender. 
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Tuyrar on December 09, 2015, 08:12:48 pm
It's at internet archive
http://web.archive.org/web/20090626024030/http://www.beaumontsociety.org.uk/wobs/challenge.html

Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: LiliFee on October 25, 2016, 11:50:16 am
The link to the original article is dead, please remove or unpin this topic.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Jacqueline on October 25, 2016, 12:44:52 pm
The link two posts above leads one to an archive of the original title.

Warmly,

Joanna
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Wendyway2 on March 22, 2018, 01:45:17 pm
Hello,

Transitioning with my wife has evolved from many stages. the first being that both of our bodies evolved in a non-binary fashion. When I re-married my wife I was dressed in a wedding gown, for me it meant accepting my homosexuality in relation to her. I suppose to her she let go over the hard working over achiever archetype I once had been. Transitioning with her as made me somehow more dependent upon her for approval of my feelings. While being dependent on family, and community in my experience proved to be  a costly mistake. I go through ways of transitioning also like dieting and quitting smoking. It is so hard to look out for number one. This article touched me, it maybe my wife's libido can still receive a more masculine progenitor. It may be I am praying that her feelings for me haven't changed, from my being her loyal homosexual who expresses his partnership to a stronger woman as a transgender. 
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Tine007 on June 07, 2018, 05:30:31 pm
Thank you for this article & honesty, going through all these feeling emotions & the loss of loved one that is still in your world.  :) words can be hard to express this topic shows both sides of happiness & sadness we all face inside processing the information and moving forward. Keeping up with a happy smile each day -:) very touched by this article, Many thanks for sharing the story's.
Tine
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Proudwife on June 27, 2018, 11:32:10 am
Yes there are many challenges for a wife to face God knows I think I have faced a few.
But all along I have stayed strong in my choice to stay with her through everything yes we have hard day but hopefully now that's things have started to move along nicely with hrt I am hoping that some of these challenges may disappear or at best get easy.
We have had people ask very insensitive questions and quite honestly we have been asked personal questions.
Like yesterday we went to get her laser treatment which turned out not to be laser!!!!!
And the person doing the treatment in her wisdom oh wait I mean stupidity decided it was ok to ask personal questions which made my wife quite frankly uncomfortable and me mad I just don't get why people think that kind of behaviour is acceptable
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Moonflower on September 24, 2018, 05:15:36 pm
Thank you to everyone who shared thoughts here. I appreciate the suggestion for the significant other (that's me) to talk with someone besides the trans person about the experience. So, I asked my dearest darling spouse to choose someone, and we selected my therapist. That was wonderful! I'm looking forward to finally sharing this secret, and so is my spouse. I think that she appreciated the reassurance that I really, truly hadn't told anyone all of these years. After we had brainstormed, she saw the choice clearly as someone who she never talks with, and who has a professional code of confidentiality.

You all also got us thinking about another next step toward coming out. My talking with one person is one baby step. Finding ways to eliminate facial hair would be great. She has such a pretty, feminine face, but the facial hair grows too fast and is too coarse and dark. Smooth facial skin would give her a lot of confidence as she imagines being able to "fool" someone into thinking that she is the girl who she is. I cherish each time that someone referred to her as a girl, but she forgets those moments.

Thank you, everyone here, for inspiring us to talk more about what the transition experience is like for each of us, and how to move forward.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Athenajacob on October 11, 2018, 02:02:15 am
She - the wife - survived, as has their marriage, and she went on to help other wives in the same situation. 

Robyn

Having trouble with this; I made my wife gradually aware over our relationship (told her about sexual abuse and resulting homoerotic dysphoria before marriage; told her about transgender pornography habits 6 months after birth of our son; told her about dressing and sexual habits around 2.5 years after the birth of our son, and encouraged us to go to therapy, but allowed her the reasonable doubt of it being fetish behaviour; two weeks ago informed her it is likely an identity and that we really need to go to therapy, and currently am in group and single therapy). Ironically, dressing and therapy have drastically reduced any male-to-male homoerotic desires to virtually zero as I am also talking about the sexual abuse more openly and embracing my transgenderism as I never dreamed possible.

My wife is strongly struggling with her own homosexual phobia as a result of childhood sexual trauma as well and is terrified that if I transition she will become a lesbian (and thus in her mind deemed, "disgusting"); these feelings seem largely socialized (she is latina and thus grew up surrounded by macho culture, and was an only child raised more like a boy by her father). I alternate submissive and agressive, I am a "Switch" as I think it may be called, and she is as well. I am more agressive in social contexts, and she is more assertive in service situations (like requesting help from a waitress, or insisting on being called next if someone cuts in line), romantically we alternate, but I have seen more agressive humor from her (and have responded submissively as I believe she wants to see, to feel more safe I suppose); but with this she also feels the need to "man-up" even though she feels she would undeniably fall short. I am not 100% sure if I am seeing some unresolved FTM feelings in her, which I would not have ever expected, or if it is the simple result of insecurity (for instance she seems to test me, saying things like; "if we end up divorced you'll just end up with a trans person, or like a FTM". I responded offhand with "well that's not really my thing" to which she seemed to respond with disappointment. I tried to correct, by saying "but of course I would be with you no matter what, and come to think of it I have been attracted to it on occasion (which is true, I just never thought two people could transition in a relationship)", but I just don't know. 

She wants me to go stealth (really for life, but I said I will 100% give her the deal that I can stay presenting as male until the kid(s) are 18, but that I would have to transition after that--I mean the promise, but I am mostly hopeful that if she has a baseline she can move forward--and she seems to be, but its like a two step forward two or four back type of thing). And per our agreement I have not told our son (she tends to break the agreement, while I have not, she is hoping I can "snap" out of it). And thinks I may have Dissasociate Identity Disorder, be Autistic (I scored high on an online test), or otherwise be mentally ill and that a cure to this would cure my desire to become some form of Transsexual (my idea is femininizing surgeries to the face, voice, and body (except the penis, she really wants to keep it and I don't mind it, although thinking about it, its pretty hard to tuck, but I might just have to do the numbing trick.

Really wishing I cam out far earlier, but I am where I am and I think it will work. Any resources or guidance would be welcome.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: NancyBalik on October 17, 2018, 04:38:07 pm
Wow Athena, The two of you are really in the middle of it. It wasn’t clear from your post whether the two of you are currently in therapy—hope you can find someone familiar with these gender struggles. I so respect your devotion to your kids. That has a lot to do with why I did not and will not move towards transition. I think we end up choosing between so many conflicting important priorities: our own gender identity, our love for our spouse, our kids, sometimes extended family. My wife won’t even talk to me about gender any more, but I’ve chosen to stay. Sometimes I feel weak for staying, sometimes I feel like the sacrifice is worth it for what we have left together (and how I retain “Nancy” in myself). One thing I’d predict: you wait until your kids are 18 and your life and world will look differently then than it does now. But you’ll have to figure out how to live well and be married healthily in the meantime—you can’t just “serve out the time.” (well, you could, but it’d suck.)

My heart goes out to you both. I can relate to how absolutely awful it is to be in the middle of this. Best, Nancy
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Virginia on October 17, 2018, 05:13:14 pm
she is hoping I can "snap" out of it). And thinks I may have Dissasociate Identity Disorder, be Autistic (I scored high on an online test), or otherwise be mentally ill and that a cure to this would cure my desire to become some form of Transsexual

I have Dissociative Identity Disorder as a result of childhood sexual and psychological abuse and this has been the case for me.

Gender Dysphoria and the need to dress as a woman, dysphoria about their male body and genitals, extreme guilt related to masturbation, dreams about becoming a woman, sexual fantasies about becoming a woman, and sexual confusion are all common in cisgender men who experienced sexual abuse as children. One in Six men are sexually abused before the age of 18; it is a much more likely cause of these symptoms than trangenderism which only affects 0.6% of the entire population. There is an excellent discussion group on the Male Survivor website if you would like to read about other men's experiences: http://www.discussion.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

It is common to have opposite gender alters in a DID system. In my case, my mind created a 13 year old girl to cope with the abuse I experienced as child. DID affects 1% to 3% of the population so its prevalence is comparable to the majority of major chronic psychological disorders.

It is EXTREMELY difficult to determine the underlying cause of these symptoms. It took three years of therapy for my psychologists to correctly diagnose me with DID. I was completely unawares I had a female alter, let alone remember the horrible things that caused my mind to split into 5 different identities. The mind's ability to protect  a person from things too painful to remember is astounding. It can take YEARS of therapy to unravel the complex life a transgender person who was abused as a child.

You can read more in my post, "Childhood Trauma Survivor Misdiagnosed as Transsexual with Gender Dysphoria" at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,176195.msg1548804.html#msg1548804
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: NancyBalik on October 17, 2018, 07:17:47 pm
Virginia, I believe you that you have DID and that you have suffered greatly. However, I want to throw out a caution about extrapolating from your own experience that there is a statistically significant number of men with DID who have dissociative states as a female that is mistaken as transgenderism. I’m sure you are aware that DID is one of the most controversial diagnosis in psychiatry, and the incidence in the U.S is estimated to be 1-3% (5-9 times more likely in genetic females). We’d have to assume that if Athena had DID, one of his alters was female. Plus, there would be evidence of other dissociative symptoms (lost time, other alters, history of chaotic personal life, etc).

My take is that his wife is grasping at straws and denying the reality of the gender issue by telling him he is disassociating or autistic. Somehow it would be more tolerable to her if it was a mental health problem (maybe one a pill could cure and you know that meds alone don’t cure DID) than gender dysphoria that, if they face head-on, will alter the course of their lives.

Again, this doesn’t take away from your diagnosis. I just suspect that yours is an exceptional case. Nancy
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Virginia on October 17, 2018, 09:15:10 pm
Not an exceptional case at all when you consider how exceptional transgenderism itself is, Nancy.

I want to throw out a caution about extrapolating from your own experience that there is a statistically significant number of men with DID who have dissociative states as a female that is mistaken as transgenderism.

There is no need for caution; it is the norm for a DID system to have opposite gender alters in a DID system. There are quite a few of us here who experience exactly this. See this thread devoted to forum members with DID who have opposite gender alters and those with dissociative conditions who need to express themself as another gender at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218553.msg1934547.html#msg1934547

I’m sure you are aware that DID is one of the most controversial diagnosis in psychiatry

DID is controversial because it has been inappropriately used as a legal defense and because of the way it is misrepresented in movies. The causes of the dissociation as a coping mechanism for trauma are well understood. DID itself is is recognized and its symptomology outlined in DSM.

the incidence in the U.S is estimated to be 1-3% (5-9 times more likely in genetic females). We’d have to assume that if Athena had DID, one of his alters was female.

Yes, DID is much more likely than the 0.3% of the population who are transgender. Transgenderism also shares many symptoms experienced by survivors of childhood sexual abuse which affects 1 in 6 men and 1 in 4 women. As I mentioned above, if Athena had DID, they would also likely have opposite gender alters in their system. It is speculated that a higher percentage of women are diagnosed with DID because men manifest the symptoms of their conditions differently and tend to end up in the penal system.

Plus, there would be evidence of other dissociative symptoms (lost time, other alters, history of chaotic personal life, etc).

This would not be the case. DID is a disorder of secrecy; a victim's life depended on hiding what they were doing. As such it often enables a person to life an apparently normal life for years. 28% of MPD/DID patients are diagnosed in their 40’s or later, and the average time in the psychological health care system before a person is correctly diagnosed with DID is 10 years.

My take is that his wife is grasping at straws and denying the reality of the gender issue by telling him he is disassociating or autistic. Somehow it would be more tolerable to her if it was a mental health problem (maybe one a pill could cure and you know that meds alone don’t cure DID) than gender dysphoria that, if they face head-on, will alter the course of their lives.

It would be a horrible misjudgement for Athena's wife or anyone to see any mental disorder as somehow more tolerable than gender dysphoria or to that, or to believe it would not alter the course of their lives.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: NancyBalik on October 18, 2018, 06:06:40 am


It would be a horrible misjudgement for Athena's wife or anyone to see any mental disorder as somehow more tolerable than gender dysphoria or to that, or to believe it would not alter the course of their lives.

This—I agree with wholeheartedly. Mental illness is no joke. Thank you for your thorough and thoughtful response. Where I think we might agree is that all caution should be taken for a proper diagnosis, rather than explanations being hypothcized by an individual’s family to explain their penchant for women’s clothing and their desire to be a woman. My point was that the wife seemed to be saying essentially, “You’re not trans, you’re crazy.” I’m not saying that’s preferable (or that DID or autism is crazy), I’m exaggerating to make the point.  Nancy
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Grad0507 on October 24, 2018, 10:20:18 am
I don’t relate to this article. I am signing on to have a husband AND wife. As Virginia said in Une Nouvelle Amie, he has never had to lie to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Athenajacob on October 27, 2018, 10:45:08 am
Not an exceptional case at all when you consider how exceptional transgenderism itself is, Nancy.

Yes, DID is much more likely than the 0.3% of the population who are transgender. Transgenderism also shares many symptoms experienced by survivors of childhood sexual abuse which affects 1 in 6 men and 1 in 4 women. As I mentioned above, if Athena had DID, they would also likely have opposite gender alters in their system. It is speculated that a higher percentage of women are diagnosed with DID because men manifest the symptoms of their conditions differently and tend to end up in the penal system.

This would not be the case. DID is a disorder of secrecy; a victim's life depended on hiding what they were doing. As such it often enables a person to life an apparently normal life for years. 28% of MPD/DID patients are diagnosed in their 40’s or later, and the average time in the psychological health care system before a person is correctly diagnosed with DID is 10 years.

It would be a horrible misjudgement for Athena's wife or anyone to see any mental disorder as somehow more tolerable than gender dysphoria or to that, or to believe it would not alter the course of their lives.

Thank you both for your thoughtful discussion (apologies I do not really know how to tag you both or know if you will even see this post).

Since I have posted my wife and I have been going to a therapist specializing in transgender and non-binary issues and it has been very helpful for me. I have made clear to my wife that this is a joint enterprise that my biggest priority is her and our son.  One of the most helpful things we did was create a chart with "must-haves", "nice-to-haves/possible" and "possible but not likely"; must-haves are things like I need to dress full-on when alone or with just my wife and I, ultimately I want to go out dressed with my wife somewhere on a semi-regular basis, hidden dressing (such as underwear, or painted nails), laser hair removal (still wobbling on this, but I know it would help a lot), learning make-up, and a couple of others; nice-to-haves/possible are HRT (a lot of research and understanding before I would do this, I just am very skeptical--my wife pushes it more than me oddly enough, because of her fear that this is where everything is going), feminization surgeries (other than bottom surgery) and a few others, and the possible but not likely is full SRS and being with a male partners. I have bisexual inclinations as a result of sexual abuse, but have never sought a relationship with a male, but I felt it to be appropriate to acknowledge my wife's fear that this could happen.

We have talked at length about marriage divorce, post-nups (I also have windfall stress as does my wife, which puts a magnifying glass on this issue, but also makes it easier for her to stay with me since I essentially can economically support the family regardless of discrimination--I waited a long time to come out fully because of this, and am still not 100% out, just a smattering here and there).

We have a resonable equilibrium now, but I am struggling to a degree to understand exactly what is going on with me. I have a strong desire to be my wife's "man" and able to do it reasonably well for short sprints. As an example, when things were really bad I was able to snap into a like 1950's dad persona (I lived with my grandfather who was very much the consumate patriarch for around a decade); the dog respected and listened just like our son, I used the trick the karate instructor used you kind of look down and get a very masculine voice and ask them to repeat various phrases using the term "sir", for example, "Was that respectful to hit daddy? You need to tell me 'sorry sir' or you will have a consequence"; this was required after my son--relatively soon after adopting this persona (he is around 4)--punched me as hard as he could in my gonads--after throwing out 5 toys (permanently) and having this talk with him he yielded; but I think he was confused and trying to dominate me and be in control.

Anyway, the point is I do feel like I can adopt various personas and in my field (law) I struggle with the idea that I could ever be really fully out even without my wife's concerns--for example, when I worked as in-house counsel the main attorney invited all the male attorneys to golf but omitted the female attorneys--I cannot imagine how they would have treated me as a transgender attorney, but I digress.

Another important item I noticed is that Virginia mentioned many with DID end up in the penal system; I could have seen this with me too; I had delinquency issues coupled with hopelessness in my teens and became a legal professional in large part because of it. Also, living with my grandparents for a decade while I went to high school, junior college, university and then law school was very helpful as it relates to the severe anger issues I had (which have finally started to taper off almost 100% as I have acknowledged my femaleness in some way almost daily--interestingly the pornography habit also greatly reduces the more I acknowledge it as well).

I must say though, my wife is actually very supportive--we have taken to calling it an "issue" and not labeling it as a way to help her cope, but we genuinely do love each other--thank God. And thank all of you!
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Moonflower on October 27, 2018, 05:33:06 pm
I have made clear to my wife that this is a joint enterprise that my biggest priority is her and our son.

 One of the most helpful things we did was create a chart with "must-haves", "nice-to-haves/possible" and "possible but not likely"...

We have talked at length about marriage divorce, post-nups...

We have a resonable equilibrium now, but I am struggling to a degree to understand exactly what is going on with me. I have a strong desire to be my wife's "man" and able to do it reasonably well for short sprints...

I must say though, my wife is actually very supportive--we have taken to calling it an "issue" and not labeling it as a way to help her cope, but we genuinely do love each other--thank God. And thank all of you!

Thanks for sharing all of this good news! So great to see you both working so hard to work this out for both of you. Keep reaching and prioritizing!
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Athenajacob on October 28, 2018, 11:35:16 am
I don’t relate to this article. I am signing on to have a husband AND wife. As Virginia said in Une Nouvelle Amie, he has never had to lie to me.


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To me what you describe is the way things should go, a person should be able to disclose who they are up front, or that this is something that needs to be explored during the marriage at a minimum. It is a good thing you do not relate, that is a good sign that your SO can be open with you and that you are open to them. I wholeheartedly wish you were in such good company that you never felt even the slightest bit alone.

However, I would offer that many of us are not "lying", there is a severely strong impulse to revile parts of ourselves not accepted by society and even externalities that push us away from being ourselves. As a personal example, I expressed that I had potential gender issues to a Psychologist and after a few moments of talking with him and asking if I was likely to have issues in a marriage with a woman he told me, "have you done anything live?" I thought he meant if I had slept with a transgender person or with a man (with me being) en femme (which I have never done, my wife, other than some unfortunate incidents, is my only sexual partner), and so I said "no"; he then said "well, then you're fine, just marry someone nice and understanding". So I basically did that--but I did not properly disclose it before marriage because I thought it was more of just a fetish to be controlled--however, I was able to come out as a crossdresser shortly after our son was born. My wife was supportive, but very tenative about staying with me if I fully transitioned, so I mostly stowed the conversation until around a month ago.

Another counter I have is that past generations were far less accepting than ours, and so (even in my case) telling a fiancee or girlfriend--even when love is there--can cause the relationship to fail. And so anxiety in losing people we love is yet another brick in the wall of shame forcing us into self-imposed exile. Imagine telling someone for whom care deeply about a secret, and having them react with anger, disgust and rejection--the fear of this holds many of us back, and then when we do come forward our fears are confirmed. You and your SO have such a beautiful potential to change this, I truly am so happy for you!

I don't want to go on and on (I guess I still did, but hopefully its useful framework to thing about below?), but perhaps you can find people who had a SO transition or come out during the marriage where the cisfemale wife was able to (or even excited) to continue the marriage. I wouldn't worry too much about lying, truth is relative, especially when often our survival (or advance through society in the context of work, etc.) depends on hiding.

You and your SO, depending how "out" they are will have many of the same experiences and concerns all married couples of our experience have: (1) economics: who works where and how much do they make; can your SO be "out" in their field and/or what are the consequences of this--I could be naive and say "people should accept me regardless", but this is not often the world, although I do hear encouraging stories, (2) Children/Family: is your SO "out" with your and their family, are they "out" with your kids? My wife has serious concerns about development and emotional impact of me being "out" in front of our son, and so I am clandestine for now, (3) Transition: will your SO transition, and if so what does this mean? Will they present as female part or full time, will they undergo HRT (is HRT safe? This is a huge concern for my wife), will they have feminization surgeries?--and going back to economics, how will this be paid for? Are certain jobs/insurance more accommodating?, (4) Geography: Where will you both live? Certain states are more friendly towards us, California, Oregon, Washington, Massachusets and a few others seem good (you can google maps and review); if your SO fully transitions and changes their gender marker (it sounds like this is not on the table, but if there is any possibility its a consideration) this may require legal maneuvering in a given state, and many states have very arduous processes for facilitating this change per my understanding, (5) Relationship Dynamics: What are the expectations for each partner in the relationship--my wife struggles with feelings that she needs to be the "Man" in the relationship; I explain to her I do not need this, I am the breadwinner and will always be, I am larger (about a foot) and will probably always be stronger; but other things like cooking (I am far better, but she has anosmia so I think that's a lot to do with it) is something I prefer to do to reduce her stress, and I try to do laundery and clean a bit, and signaling a waiter/waitress is something she is more comfortable with--I tend to be a bit too passive in that context, (6) Safety/Living: Not knowing the extent of the potential transition of your SO, safety may be a concern (largely dependent upon geography; but this can change, e.g. will your ability to travel be curtailed--at least if your SO is en femme?), how will neighboors react, which bathrooms will be used (I know this sounds a bit ridiculous, but there are serious issues surrounding this and lots of angst and even hate driving certain groups to be very alarmist about which bathrooms transgender folk use due to concerns of sexual impropriety)--I was at disneyland yesterday with my family, presenting as male, and although I know where a few neutral bathrooms are, I often have to urinate; I began to realize that this would be much harder on my family if I am en femme because my wife cannot lift and I am not really sure which bathroom (other than family bathrooms) I should take him in--I suppose the mens if safest, but it creates an unnecessary anxiety for all of us that is more apparent and frequent than may be considered at first glance.

You have a beautiful opportunity and I am sure everyone here wishes you well--I am sure if you look you can find others with your experience--the experience which I sincerely hope becomes far more common than the stories of a husband coming out as a wife during the marriage.
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Grad0507 on October 30, 2018, 02:08:10 pm
To me what you describe is the way things should go, a person should be able to disclose who they are up front, or that this is something that needs to be explored during the marriage at a minimum. It is a good thing you do not relate, that is a good sign that your SO can be open with you and that you are open to them. I wholeheartedly wish you were in such good company that you never felt even the slightest bit alone.

However, I would offer that many of us are not "lying", there is a severely strong impulse to revile parts of ourselves not accepted by society and even externalities that push us away from being ourselves. As a personal example, I expressed that I had potential gender issues to a Psychologist and after a few moments of talking with him and asking if I was likely to have issues in a marriage with a woman he told me, "have you done anything live?" I thought he meant if I had slept with a transgender person or with a man (with me being) en femme (which I have never done, my wife, other than some unfortunate incidents, is my only sexual partner), and so I said "no"; he then said "well, then you're fine, just marry someone nice and understanding". So I basically did that--but I did not properly disclose it before marriage because I thought it was more of just a fetish to be controlled--however, I was able to come out as a crossdresser shortly after our son was born. My wife was supportive, but very tenative about staying with me if I fully transitioned, so I mostly stowed the conversation until around a month ago.

Another counter I have is that past generations were far less accepting than ours, and so (even in my case) telling a fiancee or girlfriend--even when love is there--can cause the relationship to fail. And so anxiety in losing people we love is yet another brick in the wall of shame forcing us into self-imposed exile. Imagine telling someone for whom care deeply about a secret, and having them react with anger, disgust and rejection--the fear of this holds many of us back, and then when we do come forward our fears are confirmed. You and your SO have such a beautiful potential to change this, I truly am so happy for you!

I don't want to go on and on (I guess I still did, but hopefully its useful framework to thing about below?), but perhaps you can find people who had a SO transition or come out during the marriage where the cisfemale wife was able to (or even excited) to continue the marriage. I wouldn't worry too much about lying, truth is relative, especially when often our survival (or advance through society in the context of work, etc.) depends on hiding.

You and your SO, depending how "out" they are will have many of the same experiences and concerns all married couples of our experience have: (1) economics: who works where and how much do they make; can your SO be "out" in their field and/or what are the consequences of this--I could be naive and say "people should accept me regardless", but this is not often the world, although I do hear encouraging stories, (2) Children/Family: is your SO "out" with your and their family, are they "out" with your kids? My wife has serious concerns about development and emotional impact of me being "out" in front of our son, and so I am clandestine for now, (3) Transition: will your SO transition, and if so what does this mean? Will they present as female part or full time, will they undergo HRT (is HRT safe? This is a huge concern for my wife), will they have feminization surgeries?--and going back to economics, how will this be paid for? Are certain jobs/insurance more accommodating?, (4) Geography: Where will you both live? Certain states are more friendly towards us, California, Oregon, Washington, Massachusets and a few others seem good (you can google maps and review); if your SO fully transitions and changes their gender marker (it sounds like this is not on the table, but if there is any possibility its a consideration) this may require legal maneuvering in a given state, and many states have very arduous processes for facilitating this change per my understanding, (5) Relationship Dynamics: What are the expectations for each partner in the relationship--my wife struggles with feelings that she needs to be the "Man" in the relationship; I explain to her I do not need this, I am the breadwinner and will always be, I am larger (about a foot) and will probably always be stronger; but other things like cooking (I am far better, but she has anosmia so I think that's a lot to do with it) is something I prefer to do to reduce her stress, and I try to do laundery and clean a bit, and signaling a waiter/waitress is something she is more comfortable with--I tend to be a bit too passive in that context, (6) Safety/Living: Not knowing the extent of the potential transition of your SO, safety may be a concern (largely dependent upon geography; but this can change, e.g. will your ability to travel be curtailed--at least if your SO is en femme?), how will neighboors react, which bathrooms will be used (I know this sounds a bit ridiculous, but there are serious issues surrounding this and lots of angst and even hate driving certain groups to be very alarmist about which bathrooms transgender folk use due to concerns of sexual impropriety)--I was at disneyland yesterday with my family, presenting as male, and although I know where a few neutral bathrooms are, I often have to urinate; I began to realize that this would be much harder on my family if I am en femme because my wife cannot lift and I am not really sure which bathroom (other than family bathrooms) I should take him in--I suppose the mens if safest, but it creates an unnecessary anxiety for all of us that is more apparent and frequent than may be considered at first glance.

You have a beautiful opportunity and I am sure everyone here wishes you well--I am sure if you look you can find others with your experience--the experience which I sincerely hope becomes far more common than the stories of a husband coming out as a wife during the marriage.

Thanks.
1. Maybe if they already know him?
2. Yes
3. Yes, but no T blockers
4. Colorado
5. He cooks
6. We intend to travel
I have not asked about the bathroom scenario. That’s a good question to ask.


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Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Charlie Nicki on October 30, 2018, 02:55:12 pm
I just read it and it helped me understand my ex's position a bit more. I have to congratulate all significant others who decide to soldier through this process and who make it through together. You are real life heroes!
Title: Re: The Challenge to a Wife
Post by: Athenajacob on November 04, 2018, 06:08:01 am
I just read it and it helped me understand my ex's position a bit more. I have to congratulate all significant others who decide to soldier through this process and who make it through together. You are real life heroes!

Yeah, I feel if you nix out all the societal oppressive morass, that people really are just people. I love my wife, we have many issues and many wonderful connectives that allow us to endure. My wife's biggest problems largely are not acceptance of me, but the fear of the unacceptance of others of both of us--with me leading the charge into the territory of inviting (of course undeserved) public scorn (of both silent and loud varieties).

I just want to tell and reflect my truth, that's it--and provided no one is harmed I wish and hope other human beings with their own travails, insecurities, shortcomings and other failings can recognize that we all are a bit of a mixed bag, but most of us really just try to do good.