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A straight man’s thoughts on his attraction to transgender women

Started by CaliforniaAdmirer, November 21, 2013, 04:06:08 AM

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CaliforniaAdmirer

Please read disclaimer.
I am writing this from the perspective of a straight man attracted to a MTF transgender. I just want to be clear, I am not saying that this only applies to MTF's but, I am writing from that perspective because it is where my attraction is. I am sure there are people from all genders and sexual orientations that have had similar experiences.

         
Although I am a very "heterosexual" man I have been exploring my sudden attraction to transgender women. Starting about three years ago I began to find myself more and more attracted to transgender women. I wasn't sure what the attraction was other than to say I have always been drawn to things "non conventional".
         Like most straight guys the only transgender women I have seen are on porn sites. Which is sad because I know that is only fantasy and not at all what a transgender woman is about. For some reason I found watching a woman with a penis masturbate very arousing but, I do not have the same feelings watching a straight or gay man masturbate. I found this very curious and it awakened my desire to question things and understand them, or not but, to at least explore the question. 
   At first I thought my attraction may be the male genitals, which then asks the question, am I gay? Do I have homosexual desires that I have been suppressing? Which is OK, if that's what it really is then I would have to explore that. Having said that, I began to realize something, I only found the male genitals arousing on a transgender woman.  When I would look at gay or straight men I did not find that arousing at all, in fact I found it somewhat repulsive.
   I did some research about transgender women. I began to understand about who she is and that not only did she want to change but, needed to change. This change was not some flippant desire to be different or fulfill a sexual fantasy. This need was something that had to do with a yearning that she had most likely been suppressing most of her life. That this change was not easy and that it was not just about physical appearance but about how she felt inside. I also learned that this had nothing to do with being gay and that most men attracted to transgender women were not gay or bisexual. This helped me to understand my attraction more.
         The reality is I love women. I love the way they dress, their attention to detail when they put on makeup or do their nails. I love dark red lipstick, blood red nails, silky smooth stockings, short skirts and high heels. I know she does this because she loves doing it but, it's not all about attracting a man, she loves the way it feels to spend that time pampering herself and creating an image that makes her feel beautiful not only on the outside but on the inside too.
Furthermore, I am a hopeless romantic who doesn't believe chivalry is dead. I enjoy opening the door for her, holding her chair and helping her put on her coat. Pampering her and surprising her with little gifts is something that I enjoy very much. I adore whispering in her ear how beautiful she is while we slowly dance to our favorite song. I have a passion for long sessions of foreplay before sex to reward her for all her effort. For me sex is not all about me but a shared experience. I want her to feel as much pleasure as I do. In fact I don't feel the sex is over until we are both satisfied.
        However, I believe there is more to this and on a much deeper level than the sexual aspect. There have been many times, when I was on a porn site looking at the thumbnail pictures where I could only see a face or torso; there was no way of knowing if the picture was a genetic female or not.  I would see a woman I found very attractive and when I clicked on the image only then would I know it was a transgender woman.
        More and more I would click on the transgender picture. I found this very interesting because they all looked like genetic women but, somehow I was drawn to the transgender woman. I could only see a face but, it was something in the transgender woman's face that was getting my attention. As I thought about this I realized there was an intuitive attraction; I can see something in their faces, a depth that I don't usually see in a lot of women or people in general. It's the kind of depth you get from going through something painful. I think most Transgender women who have gone through such a transformation have experienced lot of pain in the process of making that change. I'm not talking about physical pain I am talking about emotional and mental pain. The process of discovering and accepting that you are not what you were told and believed you were but, something else.  I too have been through this process but, for different reasons. The feelings of loneliness and abandonment are very powerful and can be extremely debilitating. You are not accepted by society and therefore you are some kind of freak. You are an oddity with no value to mankind. Accepting that and getting past it without committing suicide is a huge accomplishment. But, once you survive that you are not done.
You must go through a death; a death of the self and your perceived identity. At some point you have to completely lose yourself so that you can find this other person and connect with him or her at your core. It cannot be a superficial connection it has to happen at the very center of your being. This can be absolutely terrifying but it must be done if you are to find your true self.
          I know all too well what that experience is about because I have been through it.  I was raped when I was eight years old. It happened over a period of about a year and a half by a sibling, two priests a Nun and several others that I can't seem to identify. I was forty-five when those memories started to surface; I am now fifty-one.
The very actions of those abusers made me feel like I was a worthless  but, they reinforced it by what they said. I was told it was my fault, that I was bad and if I told anyone about what happened no one would ever love me. I felt a loneliness that could only be described as absolute and a sense of isolation that would bring most grown men to their knees. I remember being locked in a dark and cold, closet for long periods of time. That time was the most agonizing as it reinforced my sense of abandonment and the fact that I didn't belong. I was different, there was no place for me and most of all, no one could ever love me. I was an unlovable, genetic mistake.
        Eventually, I did have to process that pain and lose the identity that was forced upon me when I was very young. I think more than anything else this is what attracts me to transgender women. I know they have been through an extremely difficult process and not only can I appreciate that but, I can honor it as well.
The transgender woman's courage to pursue what she believes; in spite of what the rest of the world finds acceptable is heroic to say the least. They are survivors and I can most certainly identify with that. I can sense a great amount of depth because the only way you can understand such pain is you have to experience it yourself.
       I know there is much more to this; in fact I feel I have only scratched the surface. My point in all of this is selfish because, I really just want to understand myself. Maybe some of you will feel inspired or comforted and many more may find this annoying and disrespectful. Hopefully some of you will read this and give me your insights on what you have read here.
To sum up how I feel here is the end of a poem I wrote called "I Rescued an Angel".

In my grief I am conscious
I've squandered an opportunity
To rescue an angel

With a cold thought
I realize
I have already rescued her
Not from her pain
But mine
As loneliness invades my heart
I now know
The only love I can receive
Is from another heart
Anointed with equal despair

"Don't be afraid to lose what you are for what you could become."
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Sammy

Nicely and thoughfully written, kind sir!

And... I hope this will not be Your only post here and we will get an opportunity to know You better?
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Dahlia

Quote from: CaliforniaAdmirer on November 21, 2013, 04:06:08 AM
The reality is I love women. I love the way they dress, their attention to detail when they put on makeup or do their nails. I love dark red lipstick, blood red nails, silky smooth stockings, short skirts and high heel


Ehm...the reality is, is that 85% of GG's and at least 90% of the MTF are not into this kind of make up, clothes, stocking, high heels etc...


Those 90% of the MTF's are as masculine as they come...love to shoot big guns, into cars, weapons,  computers, motorcycles, army veterans and mainly into women/mtf only and most of the times bio fathers of several children.

I was soooo naive when I started my transition....thinking MTF would be as feminine as I was/am....but I quickly found out most of the MTF are the opposite of me, very masculine, bio fathers of several children, etcetc.

And yes, I'm feminine, I  love feminine things, fashion, make up, flowers etcetc only to be told I'm 'old fashioned', 'cliche' etcetc... by those (very) masculine MTF...because I'm not into weapons, army things, computers, motorcycles etcetc.
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Heather

Quote from: Dahlia on November 21, 2013, 07:44:02 AM
Ehm...the reality is, is that 85% of GG's and at least 90% of the MTF are not into this kind of make up, clothes, stocking, high heels etc...


Those 90% of the MTF's are as masculine as they come...love to shoot big guns, into cars, weapons,  computers, motorcycles, army veterans and mainly into women/mtf only and most of the times bio fathers of several children.

I was soooo naive when I started my transition....thinking MTF would be as feminine as I was/am....but I quickly found out most of the MTF are the opposite of me, very masculine, bio fathers of several children, etcetc.

And yes, I'm feminine, I  love feminine things, fashion, make up, flowers etcetc only to be told I'm 'old fashioned', 'cliche' etcetc... by those (very) masculine MTF...because I'm not into weapons, army things, computers, motorcycles etcetc.
Don't you think your stereotyping a bit? You know a lot of us are not into ultra masculine things and never have been!!!  ;)
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~RoadToTrista~

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Sammy

Cant we be into both? I love both things - feminine and masculine and I dont want to choose either/or... I am not into cars, sports and motorcycles, but I know how to use a gun and a couple of other things. I am also not very much into heels (height issues) and explicit makeup - I am a big fan of all things subtle and classy. And I have a daughter too.
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Michelle-G

Quote from: Dahlia on November 21, 2013, 07:44:02 AMThose 90% of the MTF's are as masculine as they come...love to shoot big guns, into cars, weapons,  computers, motorcycles, army veterans and mainly into women/mtf only and most of the times bio fathers of several children.

Wow, I hope you don't actually tell that to people who are just trying to understand who we are.  Trans people are as varied as the rest of the population at large.  We are merely a subset of the population, albeit with some specific needs, interests and goals.

Any trans person I know who used personal weapons before transition still does during and afterwards.

Any trans person I know who enjoyed cars or computers before transition still does during and afterwards.

Any trans person I know who rode motorcycles (including me) before transition still does during and afterwards.  And plenty of genetic women ride motorcycles, too.

Studies have shown that trans people are twice as likely as cisgender folks to be veterans.  That's about 10% for the general population, about 20% for us.

But that 90% of MTFs preferring to be with women is pulled out of thin air.  In any group I have been in when I ask that question the group tends to be 40% leaning toward MTF attracted to women.  And even though I see it with my own eyes I still don't regard it as any sort of valid poll. But 90% is a total fantasy.
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Constance

Quote from: Dahlia on November 21, 2013, 07:44:02 AM
Ehm...the reality is, is that 85% of GG's and at least 90% of the MTF are not into this kind of make up, clothes, stocking, high heels etc...


Those 90% of the MTF's are as masculine as they come...love to shoot big guns, into cars, weapons,  computers, motorcycles, army veterans and mainly into women/mtf only and most of the times bio fathers of several children.

I was soooo naive when I started my transition....thinking MTF would be as feminine as I was/am....but I quickly found out most of the MTF are the opposite of me, very masculine, bio fathers of several children, etcetc.

And yes, I'm feminine, I  love feminine things, fashion, make up, flowers etcetc only to be told I'm 'old fashioned', 'cliche' etcetc... by those (very) masculine MTF...because I'm not into weapons, army things, computers, motorcycles etcetc.
Hmm, I'm fairly femme though I prefer different colors of nail polish and lipstick that CaliforniaAdmirer mentioned. And, I have no regrets being the bio father of my 2 adult kids. This doesn't make me masculine in any way. It makes me a parent who loves her children and queers what it means to be a father.

Valerie

Interesting first post; welcome.

As a precaution, I urge you to bear in mind that Susan's is not a dating or hookup site.  The transgender community could use as many allies as can be found.  Hope you'll get to know the people here & the stories behind them, as well as posting more about yourself. 

~V.
"When we love, we always strive to become better than we are. When we strive to become better than we are, everything around us becomes better too."                 
                                                             ~Paulo Coelho


                                 :icon_flower:
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Robin Mack

Thank you for this post.  Susan's is a wonderful place to learn, grow, and explore and is, for the most part, extremely supportive of *anyone* who does not seek to belittle or otherwise hurt anyone else on the board.  That's why I call this wonderful corner of the internet my home.

Welcome. :)
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Ashey

I gotta admit, I'm mildly uncomfortable with this and slightly offended. I had dream recently where I had my privacy invaded, I was called something I wasn't, I physically fought people off, I was groped, and apparently was being sold off to someone, all while being embarrassed enough about my appearance to cover my face with my hand. And I realized that the 'me' in my dream was certainly a part of me, and something I need to cope with. And unfortunately, all the things that happened to me in that dream were done by men. Now I'm not a man-hater or even a feminist or anything, but I do sometimes dislike men. It's never really women that have issues with or shun transsexuals (though it still happens). It's usually the men that have the problem. In my dream, I felt like a caged animal. I felt objectified. And I felt threatened. And I know that these are feelings that I'm going to have to live with and come to terms with as I progress in my transition. So for me to hear how much a straight cisgender male thinks we're attractive, how he masturbates to us, and thinks he can relate to us... it's just a bit off-putting. By all means, keep posting, but I can't just pat you on the back for it.
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Robin Mack

Quote from: Ashey on November 21, 2013, 04:47:14 PM
I gotta admit, I'm mildly uncomfortable with this and slightly offended
...
So for me to hear how much a straight cisgender male thinks we're attractive, how he masturbates to us, and thinks he can relate to us... it's just a bit off-putting. By all means, keep posting, but I can't just pat you on the back for it.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
-Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Some people have more problems with this than others... in the OP, it appears to me that Admirer was looking at pornography, with (presumably) models who consented to appear in that manner.  He also mentioned that while he believes he is straight, he has questioned it.  To me, the post appears to be an honest and open letter and presented in a respectful manner.  He has obviously done some research, understands that transitioning is not a choice, and seems genuinely confused about his attraction to women with apparent male genitalia.

I will admit that I was more than a touch uncomfortable, too... but then I remembered that there really *are* some legitimately honest, curious people out there, and not everyone should be tarred with the same brush.  I know that when I am presenting male I still resent being told that as a male I certainly can't understand women's problems.  Just because I'm presenting male doesn't mean that I *am*.

Of course, I may be blind to certain cues or triggers that others can see... or I may just be innocent enough to believe the best in someone until they prove otherwise.  I do know, however, that issues concerning confusion about sexuality can be painful, and that Susan's tries to be open to all people earnestly searching for information or help as long as they are respectful. 

On the plus side, the OP was at least forthright in his understanding that his post may be seen as offensive or disrespectful, and declared his motivations were to better understand himself.  Which, I think, is at least one reason why we are all here.

*hug* 
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Natalia

Quote from: Dahlia on November 21, 2013, 07:44:02 AM
Those 90% of the MTF's are as masculine as they come...love to shoot big guns, into cars, weapons,  computers, motorcycles, army veterans and mainly into women/mtf only and most of the times bio fathers of several children.

I don't think most of MTFs are that masculine, even because MTFs usually don't feel they fit in the society as males and have a more female oriented brain. I never saw a MTF all muscular, spitting on the floor and drinking beer while watching soccer with his friends.

Perhaps MTFs who transition later in life can retain more masculine aspects, once they lived more as males and the society needed then to be males. This way they have their female side buried deeper and can have more difficulty to show that.

I don't consider myself very masculine. I don't know how to handle a gun (not too valid as in my country they are forbidden), I can name the brand and model of most cars I see on the streets, but that because I have a good photographic memory...I never got really interested on the subject. I like computers, but nowadays who doesn't? I hate motorcycles, I think they are way too dangerous for anyone, men or women and most people I see with motorcycles is because they can't afford a good car. I like action movies  and videogames, do this make me a masculine person?

On my sincere opinion, those kind of things don't do a person male or female. I think that what best characterises a female person (MTFs included) is the we treat others, the way we show emotions and the way we care for others.

Besides that there are personal tastes that are way more related to females than liking computers, as knowing about fashion, make-up, hairstyles, clothes, etc (all men I saw that knew about this kind of stuff were at least gay). The way we talk, our voice (most MTFs I know already had a more feminine voice before transition), the way we walk and our body language is most of the times naturaly very feminine.
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Ashey

Well I'm not trying to rip the guy apart, or discourage him from posting. Just expressing how his post made me feel.
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RavenMoon

Quote from: Dahlia on November 21, 2013, 07:44:02 AM
Ehm...the reality is, is that 85% of GG's and at least 90% of the MTF are not into this kind of make up, clothes, stocking, high heels etc...

Wow, than I must have dated the rest of those 15% in the last 40 years!

This is preposterous. Even for cisgendered women that don't dress up all the time, they dress up some of the time. They aren't all soccer moms! Everyone is different.

As for me, I like makeup and short skirts and stockings, but not heels. I'm more into punk/goth fashion.

QuoteThose 90% of the MTF's are as masculine as they come...love to shoot big guns, into cars, weapons,  computers, motorcycles, army veterans and mainly into women/mtf only and most of the times bio fathers of several children.

Is this a joke? I'm not masculine at all and never was. I hate sports, guns and violence, I do like cars (but I know plenty of cisgender women that do too), same with computers, etc.

being a transgendered woman has NOTHING to do with your sexual preferences. Same as with cisgendered women. Some like guys, and some like girls, and some like both. I'm gynecophilic myself. I've never been attracted to men, but I am attracted to transgendered women, and even some men dressed as women, as long as they look like women. ;)

QuoteI was soooo naive when I started my transition....thinking MTF would be as feminine as I was/am....but I quickly found out most of the MTF are the opposite of me, very masculine, bio fathers of several children, etc etc.

Not al cisgendered women are girly. Just be yourself.

QuoteAnd yes, I'm feminine, I  love feminine things, fashion, make up, flowers etcetc only to be told I'm 'old fashioned', 'cliche' etcetc... by those (very) masculine MTF...because I'm not into weapons, army things, computers, motorcycles etcetc.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? :)
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Natalia

Sorry about adding one more post.

Quote from: Ashey on November 21, 2013, 05:54:03 PM
Well I'm not trying to rip the guy apart, or discourage him from posting. Just expressing how his post made me feel.

I do feel the same way as you about this kind of behavior, but I see it as a direct consequence of men thinking with their genitals and not with their brains.

Recently I had a bad discussion with my male friends because they love to show how virile they are, how they get a different girl every week and so on. I think that is revolting. The way they treat sex as a complete banal thing gives me nausea. We can much more than only living to make sex. My friend even admitted he sometimes feels like a dog, wanting to make sex with everything, ranging from sofas to pillows. Sick!
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CaliforniaAdmirer

Let me clarify.
Thank you all for your response both positive and negative, all opinions have value. I am naïve about the transgender culture but not so much that I would assume there would be no misunderstanding or negative feedback I was ready for that so let me clarify some things. First off this is a sensitive subject and it was presumptive of me to think I understood enough to be sensitive to most of you.
I am not nor have I ever claimed to be some sort of expert on transgender women. In fact I was very clear in indicating that I knew very little. I was not trying to pigeonhole transgender women into one category i.e..... Feminine. If you read the disclaimer at the beginning I wrote "I am not saying that this only applies to MTF's but, I am writing from that perspective because it is where my attraction is." In other words I am attracted to the female aspect so that is where my perspective is.
I am not claiming to be anything other than just a guy who is curious about his attraction to transgender women. I was trying to say that I felt there was something more to my attraction than physical or sexual. That I was confused about being attracted to male genitalia but only on transgender women. Because of all the sexual abuse I experienced at a very young age (by both men and women) my sexuality is still something that I don't fully understand. I am just now, after finally recovering those memories questioning some things about myself. I am not claiming to know what you go through in your personal experience or transformation. I was only saying that I could identify with your pain and that intuitively I could sense your pain and that is ultimately what was drawing me towards transgender women. Like I said, the only way to understand such pain is that you have to have gone through it yourself. Furthermore I am not claiming to fully understand your pain anymore than I could fully understand the pain of an Iraqi war veteran. In fact the word I used was "Identify" and that is what it is; I can identify with the struggle of changing who you are whether MTF, FTM or any other change in self or identity.
I did some reading and watched some non-sexual videos of transgender women and all of them said they were attracted to men and that they like to be very feminine and felt the biggest compliment was to be treated like a feminine woman. Because, that is what they believed they truly were. Just like genetic women there are many variations on this; from ultra feminine to ultra masculine and everything in between. I was not saying that all transgender women are ultra feminine just as I wouldn't say the same thing about genetic women. I was not trying to label you or say that "I understand". Believe me I hate it when someone says to me that they understand my pain from the sexual abuse. When I know they have never experienced anything remotely close to what I went through.
The part about the masturbation and sexual attraction was to give perspective; that in the end, I learned my attraction was much deeper than a sexual one. My description of my attraction to women was to show that it was not a gay or bisexual attraction either. I was merely trying to understand my attraction and where I fit in this picture. I am very naïve to this culture and I am sure it shows, I was just being honest and upfront about what I was feeling.
I was trying to express that I was not some straight guy that was just looking for a fling and who only saw transgender woman as a sexual fantasy to be fulfilled or that "well most transgender women are all >-bleeped-<ed up and desperate and will screw anyone who will have them." These were two of the most common complaints of a lot of transgender women I read about or saw on video. Especially when going to gay night clubs. I was trying to be sensitive to you and your culture.
Finally I was not looking to hook up or find someone to date. I don't believe I ever made any indication that my motivation was for dating purposes. I said it in the beginning and I said it in the end, "I am just trying to understand."
Some people transgender or otherwise read only what they want to read and missed the whole point of what I wrote. Thinking, "Oh he's just some straight guy who is looking to get laid." or "He is someone who pretends to understand us." Which, I would find insulting as well; but only if I didn't read the whole post in its entirety. If you read the whole post and not just pick out the parts that you didn't like you may see it differently. Indeed many of you did just that. My opinion is just as valid as yours and I appreciate your opinion; positive or negative because, it will broaden my knowledge of myself and you.  I would like to thank those of you who were supportive and welcoming. Your words were kind and kept me from running for the hills to lick my wounds and never return.
Finally I want to thank Susan's place for the opportunity to express myself in this forum because, I had no idea where else I would go to express this. I put myself out there and knew I would be criticized by some of you. But, in the end maybe some of you can "Identify" with my pain. Maybe you understand what it's like to put yourself out there and be criticized for being who you are. I don't know, just a thought.
Peace
"Don't be afraid to lose what you are for what you could become."
  •  

Gabrielle

Quote from: Dahlia on November 21, 2013, 07:44:02 AM
Ehm...the reality is, is that 85% of GG's and at least 90% of the MTF are not into this kind of make up, clothes, stocking, high heels etc...


Those 90% of the MTF's are as masculine as they come...love to shoot big guns, into cars, weapons,  computers, motorcycles, army veterans and mainly into women/mtf only and most of the times bio fathers of several children.

This is quite offensive and unsupported by reality, Dahlia.

For CaliforniaAdmirerer -

Attraction is attraction.  Who knows why we are drawn to one person or another?  However, if you are attracted to ">-bleeped-<s" (a term I really dislike because of the porn connotation), in general, that may be a fetish.
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FrancisAnn

It's nice to see a man post on "our" site. I've always loved men. We generally talk about our nails, HRT, electrolysis, shaving our legs, how to tell our friends or relatives that we are a woman & all that girly stuff. It's fun to hear from a man that has interest. That's cool. Thanks.
mtF, mid 50's, always a girl since childhood, HRT (Spiro, E & Fin.) since 8-13. Hormone levels are t at 12 & estrogen at 186. Face lift & eye lid surgery in 2014. Abdominoplasty/tummy tuck & some facial surgery May, 2015. Life is good for me. Love long nails & handsome men! Hopeful for my GRS & a nice normal depth vagina maybe by late summer. 5' 8", 180 pounds, 14 dress size, size 9.5 shoes. I'm kind of an elegant woman & like everything pink, nice & neet. Love my nails & classic Revlon Red. Moving back to Florida, so excited but so much work moving
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