What do you think about trans trenders ?

[Tatiana 79]

Hello Michelle
Thank you so much for shedding light on this subject with your professional  assessment and explanation.
It seems to reflect the consensus of what other members expressed.
You most certainly are a tremendous asset to have here at Susan's to shed your professional experience in these  circumstances
I admit I didn't know squat about this subject when I first threw it out here.
but thanks to you and everyone else I have learned a tremendous amount

And for providing a link with more information  on this subject.
Love Tatiana.

[Sno]

It's a difficult and contentious subject for sure - Caitlyn certainly helped a number of folk out of the closet to be themselves, and certainly helped others to ask themselves the questions that up to that point they didn't dare because of fear.

If one person uses this to become themselves, then personally it's academic. I have to trust that the gatekeeping process does its job.

The concerns come from the ease and accessibility of self medication, and the inevitability that some will make the wrong decision for them - as a community we need to be inclusive, of all, no matter how their journey started, or how it ends.

Concern also comes from the designation of these personal decisions being deemed a lifestyle choice, and that the quiet numbers emerging from the shadows to try to be themselves, instead of something they are not; as a trend - as a fashion. The portrayal of our challenges as such is another simplistic way of trying to keep us marginalised - it will be adopted and used as such, until there is a broader understanding in the population as a whole.

The bottom line is simply that as we know, there are more of us sat waiting for our chance to be able to be ourselves than could ever be called a trend, or a fad. It's going to take a while for the general population to wrap their heads around that tbh.

(Hugs)

Rowan

[zamber74]

In the darkest recesses of the Internet, there exists a crowd who believe that being transgendered is trendy and thus, people flock to take upon the title for themselves, so they can unlock the mystical prize..  what that prize may be, I'm unsure, but it has something to do with getting a whole lot of attention, and being part of an agenda to undermine the whole of society. 

I've talked to these people who regularly use the term transtrender, I've seen them in their natural habitat.  They typically believe in a bunch of wacko conspiracy theories, think the feminists are out to get them, that gays have an agenda, that will impact them directly.  That the government has a secret conspiracy, to enforce all straight CIS males, to date a transsexual.  That the term CIS is derogatory.. the list of foolish beliefs just goes on and on.

Transtrender, is a derogatory term, to explain someone who is trans, it is a term used to explain that trans people are just doing it, to be popular.  It is probably one of the most ridiculous concepts I have run across in a while.  They seem to think, that transgendered people are just showered by love by everyone. But being the super geniuses they are, and swallowing a ton of red pills, they are on our dirty little secret, we are just doing it to be trendy.

You can usually spot these people, by their moronic behavior, and talking about how they are attack helicopters, they also typically think that trans people are trying to "trap" them. 

It is best just to avoid people who use the term.   

[pamelatransuk]

Michelle

Thank you for your explanation of the terms and the link yesterday.

I honestly did not appreciate the levels of bitterness and hatred towards us by the opposition as exemplified in your link.


Tatiana

Thank you sweetheart for another fascinating topic which we all need  beware of as it is always better to know the tactics of the opposition - be one step ahead - in order that we may defend our community accordingly.

Hugs to you both

Pamela

[Lucca]

To be fair, being transgender is "trendy" in the sense that much of liberal society pays attention to trans people, while white men are ignored. I've felt put down by liberalism my whole life because every time I try to address my issues, no one wants to listen or help me because, due to a combination of male gender roles and presumption of white guilt, white men are supposed to just "suck it up" when they feel bad and step aside so that other people who deserve it more can take the spotlight. It's pretty absurd, women and people of color openly talk about their own problems all the time in my social circles, but white men only talk about how bad other people have it, and never about their own problems. It's made me have to bottle up my issues without being able to deal with them, since no one is receptive.

In this sense, coming out as trans could be seen as an "upgrade" for me, though it's not something I'm personally comfortable with since I don't like the idea of people who ignored me suddenly deciding I'm worth their time just because of a superficial change in how they view me, when I was the same person with the same problems both before and after coming out. I actually decided not to transition for awhile specifically because I didn't want to deal with this.

[Virginia]

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I see the social media "Me Too" movement as many of you see the popularization of changing gender by the TransTrenders. In the short term they both seems demeaning and trivializing. I try to keep a positive attitude and remind myself "There is no such thing as bad publicity."  Time will tell how they each plays out.

[Michelle_P]

A big chunk of the "Trans Trender" label is fueled by the desistance mythos, which is built around a set of incorrect assumptions about gender nonconforming youth.  The desistance mythos claims that most 'transgender youth' will desist from being transgender.

• Bad Assumption: Gender-nonconforming is transgender
• Bad Assumption: A person who stops appearing as gender-nonconforming does so forever

Young people may decide to explore this crazy cultural phenomenon we call gender.  It may be from curiosity, a sense of rebellion, an internal need, or a desire to match others in a peer group.  These gender explorers form a large group that sociologists call gender nonconforming.

A few of these gender nonconforming individuals may display a persistent, insistent, and consistent gender identity over a period of 6 months or more.  These are individuals who may actually be transgender persons.  Note that others may be transgender persons as well, as not all transgender persons demonstrate gender nonconforming traits visible to others, but instead learn to hide, courtesy of the social pressures around them.  👋 

In the desistance myth, all persons displaying gender nonconforming behaviors are assumed to be transgender, and when they stop displaying this behavior they are assumed to desist from being transgender forever.   These are the two bad assumptions at work.

Most gender nonconforming youth won't meet that test of displaying a persistent, insistent, and consistent gender identity over a period of 6 months or more.  When they stop presenting gender nonconforming behavior they have not 'stopped being transgender', as they were probably not transgender to start with.

Some gender nonconforming youth might be transgender persons, but rather than push on against social pressure from others, including parents, religious leaders, and peers, are forced into hiding.  When hiding, with the inevitable eventual onset of anxiety and depression, does not mean that they have 'stopped being transgender'.

A small portion of these gender nonconforming youth will be diagnosed as being transgender and may proceed to transition and live a happy and healthy life as their authentic selves.   The desistance mythos is constructed specifically to discredit these individuals and drag them down.

I would emphasize that it is not our task in life to pass judgement on others.  Rather, we need to pay attention to ourselves, and seek the care or treatment that we may need on our path through life.  We are ultimately responsible for ourselves.  People must be free to explore themselves, and whether they decide a certain path is appropriate for themselves, or decide to change paths is entirely their responsibility.  The imposition of external judgement and condemnation, whether for being gender nonconforming or a transgender person, is not appropriate, and should be avoided.

[RobynD]

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I see the social media "Me Too" movement as many of you see the popularization of changing gender by the TransTrenders. In the short term they both seems demeaning and trivializing. I try to keep a positive attitude and remind myself "There is no such thing as bad publicity."  Time will tell how they each plays out.

I would love to know more about how you draw a correlation between the two. #metoo certainly gained public momentum, there is that but it is a movement to change what has gone on in patriarchal societies since the beginning of time. ie usurping a woman's (or other folks who are in positions of lower power) right to control her/their body and sexuality in the workplace and elsewhere. (disclaimer: I am also a survivor of sexual abuse, so #metoo)

From what I know of this subject (thanks Michelle - good explanation,) it's derogatory and used against us - that is the first thing Google says about the word and portrays people choosing this road because they want to. Again I would never stand in the way of anyone's choice or identity but what happened to include me in #metoo was very, very far from any choice and by coming out on social media about it, was never trivial.

[Lucca]

Well... I feel a little bit put down by the #metoo thing, because it assumes that men are predatory while encouraging women to avoid verbally saying what they want, so men need to be super careful to avoid missing all sorts of non-verbal cues, or else risk being slandered on Twitter as a rapist because they touched their date's wrist or something. As someone who has had lifelong social anxiety issues with both fearing that others view me as a threat due to my appearance and also being very bad at reading non-verbal cues, this doesn't put me in a very good headspace. But every time I complain, I risk being labeled as some sort of mysoginist, just because I don't like how people judge me based on my appearance, which is related to the issues I mentioned above.

[mittenskittens]

I think this whole trans trenders is way of the right labelling a increased amount of trans people as doing it because its trendy instead of the real reason why they are doing it.

I admit I wouldn't be transitioning if it was 10 years ago , I didnt even think I could become a women (  I DIDNT EVEN THINK I COULD DO IT!)  but when I saw others doing it I realised my dream could become true. We gain empowerment through others , to some that is following a trend to others its simply empowerment. None of this changes my feelings , I have always felt like a women , but have  been okay throughout my life to live as a man until recently., where I realised I could go beyond my assigned gender.

[Tatiana 79]

 When I first through this topic out there my knowledge on it was Zip.
I didn't even know if it existed.
I would like to thank each and everyone of you for sharing your knowledge and opinion for our betterment.
Love Tatiana

[Lilly G]

A big chunk of the "Trans Trender" label is fueled by the desistance mythos, which is built around a set of incorrect assumptions about gender nonconforming youth.  The desistance mythos claims that most 'transgender youth' will desist from being transgender.

• Bad Assumption: Gender-nonconforming is transgender
• Bad Assumption: A person who stops appearing as gender-nonconforming does so forever

Young people may decide to explore this crazy cultural phenomenon we call gender.  It may be from curiosity, a sense of rebellion, an internal need, or a desire to match others in a peer group.  These gender explorers form a large group that sociologists call gender nonconforming.

A few of these gender nonconforming individuals may display a persistent, insistent, and consistent gender identity over a period of 6 months or more.  These are individuals who may actually be transgender persons.  Note that others may be transgender persons as well, as not all transgender persons demonstrate gender nonconforming traits visible to others, but instead learn to hide, courtesy of the social pressures around them.  👋 

In the desistance myth, all persons displaying gender nonconforming behaviors are assumed to be transgender, and when they stop displaying this behavior they are assumed to desist from being transgender forever.   These are the two bad assumptions at work.

Most gender nonconforming youth won't meet that test of displaying a persistent, insistent, and consistent gender identity over a period of 6 months or more.  When they stop presenting gender nonconforming behavior they have not 'stopped being transgender', as they were probably not transgender to start with.

Some gender nonconforming youth might be transgender persons, but rather than push on against social pressure from others, including parents, religious leaders, and peers, are forced into hiding.  When hiding, with the inevitable eventual onset of anxiety and depression, does not mean that they have 'stopped being transgender'.

A small portion of these gender nonconforming youth will be diagnosed as being transgender and may proceed to transition and live a happy and healthy life as their authentic selves.   The desistance mythos is constructed specifically to discredit these individuals and drag them down.

I would emphasize that it is not our task in life to pass judgement on others.  Rather, we need to pay attention to ourselves, and seek the care or treatment that we may need on our path through life.  We are ultimately responsible for ourselves.  People must be free to explore themselves, and whether they decide a certain path is appropriate for themselves, or decide to change paths is entirely their responsibility.  The imposition of external judgement and condemnation, whether for being gender nonconforming or a transgender person, is not appropriate, and should be avoided.

wow, honestly, I feel like this is something that would help those that have transgender children understand a little better what goes on. I just so happened to see this post as my dad walked by and he stopped and read the post, he then went to a calendar and checked how long ive been out, then came back and noted that its been 6 1/2 months....he missed the whole fact that ive been out on social media for like 3 years, just didn't answer to gender or name outside of those outlets. but oh well., that was off topic. this specific statement is honestly something I wish more people understood because it could help out with getting the public to be more accepting in the areas that aren't as accepting.

[MeTony]

I guess that is why it takes years of therapy in Sweden, among other countries, before you get hormones and operations.


Tony

[Tatiana 79]

Hello bloo11,
I'm sure I'm wrong with the way you interpreted my opening statement, but are you calling me a transtrender?  please excuse me if I'm wrong I usually am about half the time. But if I am not wrong I see how you could have drawn this conclusion by my opening statement, especially if you haven't read any of my stuff. I am old and you are young and when I was born in 61 I don't even believe the word transgender existed for quite some time.
Where you have massive trans experience at your young age and have already had much done to you.
The only knowledge I have about the trans scene is what I acquired in the couple months I've been here at Susan's. Because 25 years ago I ran away from civilization and culture and ignored news and any other man made things and have been hiding in the woods for the last 25 years until I came out at Susan's. Myself and many of the older members here have closeted it many years,me personally  it's been 50 years of grinding dysphoria. because we wouldn't even dare talk about it unlike today we're even the very young are talking about it and receiving treatment this was unconscionable in the 60s. I hope that my friends and other members here that know me will Enlighten you. But I don't blame you if you feel that I am one of these trans trenders if it was based purely on the words of my opening on this thread.
If I'm completely off base with this please forgive me I'm getting used to being wrong because like I said I'm at age 56 and just really came out and only have the couple months here at Susan's to learn from. I live extremely remote up in the Northern Forest and my closest neighbors are miles away so there really isn't a big transene up here at all, I see more moose bear deer wolves than people.
If you do think that I am one of these trenders, know that I wish the very best for you none the less.
love Tatiana

[Michelle_P]

What do I think of trans trenders?  Geez, I can't really say this without sounding mean, but I've done everything someone can possibly do, as far as transitioning goes (with exception to SRS, which I don't want), and I'm 24.  So, when I hear someone call someone else a trans trender, the first thing that comes to my mind i that they are a trans trender (I see this a lot).

I personally try to avoid using the term 'trans trender' to refer to anyone else.

• It smacks of that nasty 'more trans than thou' hurtful putdowns I have experienced
• The term itself is used heavily by certain factions to trivialize the transgender experience and invalidate us

I've been a part of the trans community forever now, and 95% of the trans women I've known have never adopted feminine mannerisms.  The local people that started when I did (4 years ago) don't even present as female but once every couple of weeks or something.  So, that's how you know when it's not something they're putting their heart into: They never end up going full-time, they don't learn proper makeup, and they don't adopt (or usually already have) feminine mannerisms.  I really think a lot of people are doing it for the wrong reasons, and I have to say that there's this odd inverse relationship between how beautiful one becomes (as a trans woman) and how passionate they are about trans politics, but that's a different story.

The folks who present as female only part-time and do not appear to progress into a transition are often still transgender folks.  I know a number of these folks, and have had extended conversations with them and their significant others.  There are often valid reasons why a person might not proceed with a transition but just occasionally cross-dress.

• They may not have the strong gender dysphoria that some transitioners experience
• They may have external constraints, a spouse or job, which prevent their transitioning
• They may not have fully accepted their own transgender nature
• And yes, some may not be transgender persons, but engage in this behavior for their own reasons

We don't get to validate or invalidate the identity of others.  That is THEIR task.

[Eryn T]

Tatiana, girl,

I know in my heart that you're not a trans trender.  And I don't think I should have suspected I was, either.  Knowing what you've gone through and how your journey so far has helped liberate your loving spirit and kept your anger in check is certainly a large reason why I know you're genuine, hun. 

Like it was discussed lower in the thread, trans trenders are usually younger people just seeking attention, don't feel dysphoria, and don't feel euphoria when being true to theirselves. And I know you've felt both dysphoria and euphoria while going through all of this. And attention is not what you're seeking at all.

You just posted this as an interesting topic(and a few others) to discuss for the community, and I think it helped many of us learn quite a bit about the subject. So, thank you!

Much love!

[Sno]

Michelle,

You're so right, it is up to the individual to inform us how they identify, and not for us to judge.

Rowan

[Lilly G]

Michelle,

You're so right, it is up to the individual to inform us how they identify, and not for us to judge.

Rowan

I love this because it is definetly true, while some may or may not be true, the dysphoria of the wrong body and euphoria of being yourself are even themselves present in different degrees and vary widely between individuals, I personally have had to avoid mirrors most of the time so I don't break down crying because of my body( I haven't been able to look into a mirror without seeing in my eyes myself, then a body that is not me) and the euphoria as I am being myself, as I at least now can finally see myself instead of that which is not me, and no matter how hard it is, being you is worth it. but I digress, these trans trenders are something that we shouldn't even pay attention to because as someone earlier said, they have their reasons, and it isn't for us to judge them for it.

Love,
Lilly Garcia

[Danielle Kristina]

I still don't see what is so trendy about being trans.  Why would someone go through transition and everything else we go through unless he or she were transgender? 

Speaking for myself, I'm not transgender because I think its trendy, fashionable, or cool.  I'm transgender because I'm transgender.  I believe that this is true for most of us who say they are trans.

[krobinson103]

I still don't see what is so trendy about being trans.  Why would someone go through transition and everything else we go through unless he or she were transgender? 

Speaking for myself, I'm not transgender because I think its trendy, fashionable, or cool.  I'm transgender because I'm transgender.  I believe that this is true for most of us who say they are trans.

I agree as I stated earlier, I see no reason to WANT to be trans its just a whole lot of work to get to where other are already.