Author Topic: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)  (Read 5824 times)

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Offline ChrissyRyan

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A lot has changed for me this year.  I am slowly becoming the woman I know now that I should have been years ago.  My body has been transforming, and that is nice.

Rarely do things come by easy, transitioning is for sure one of those things.  There has been so much to learn.  Much comes from the desire to convincingly pass.  Maybe my looks would not be great ever, okay, but my voice is something I just do not want to be the cause of misgendering.

I think that the female voice is a threshhold to cross, so that it absolutely becomes automatic and geniunely female.  For me, practice has been ongoing.  I am at a point that I am honestly affirming that I certainly would feel uncomfortable (at first, at least) when talking with a woman that sounded like a man, so how in the world can I transition further for everyday living as a woman until that female voice has been mastered?  I would be uncomfortable and many others would be too that I would intract with if I did not have that female voice.

While there are things I can continue to do to transition, I just cannot see myself being full time unless this voice is convincingly female, not “femme male.”

So I keep practicing and learning about what to do to control my voice, including vocabulary, pitch, resonance, body language while talking, and more.  Maybe this will take a few more years!  So this takes me back to my earlier statement, rarely does anything come by easy.  I am up for the task though.

I wonder if I will end up feminizing my body really well over time but still not have this voice right.  No, I do not want to throw myself into the fire, I want to be ready.  So my timetable will not be quick.  I accept that.

I guess there is nothing wrong with that.  It is my choice.

Has anyone else here been really stymied by this voice changing hurdle?


Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Offline Angela H

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 11:45:27 am »
Hi Crissy! I totally understand you when you say that you want your voice to sound totally female. My voice was, for me, the number one source of dysphoria before I started transitioning. I’ve been working on my voice for about seven and a half months and I’m still not completely satisfied with it

But! It didn’t slow down my transition at all because I never felt like I physically passed as well as I do with just my voice. I was getting consistently called ma’am on the phone at around three months in. It really helps if you get the right kind of program and exercise as much as you can. I also tried talking “like a girl” while still presenting as male which I’m sure helped a lot (worried about looking weird? I was, but then I realized I was just going to abandon my male identity anyways lol (also for the record no one even reacted, plenty of guys have girly voices I guess))

It’s impossible to impartially judge what your voice sounds like. I would ask someone you trust if they think your voice is good enough to pass instead of letting it hold you back. It never hurts to get a second opinion!


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Offline ChrissyRyan

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 12:34:30 pm »
Thanks Angela!   I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

So far I have asked two people whom I have opened myself up to about being mtf to give me their straight-up feedback.  I also judge people’s reactions when I do go out presenting as female or androgynously and try to talk with a female voice, to gauge their reactions.  I have had epic fails with crackling and way-off voices at times.  Perhaps the worst is behind me.   :)

I have a long way to go.  But that is okay.  There are a lot of other things too that I need to develop.  That does make life interesting, they are a set of challenges, that is for sure!

No, I do not have a need for near perfection on any of these things related to transitioning full-time, for a go or no go decision, but I had better be pretty convincing with the voice I think before living as a woman for the rest of my life. 

This is a life changing experience, that is for sure, and I think I am definitely a “work in progress.”   :)    That is to be expected though.

Chrissy

Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 01:06:59 pm »
Chrissy,
   Without a doubt you have an asset that obviously stands out in your favor, your personality. You are very positive and kind from what I have seen and you make some very good threads.  I have worked on many things in the time I have been full time. I guess my look is decent and my mannerisms don't stand out. (People at work seeing me from a little distance have commented that there is no 'guy' there anymore.) I have softened my voice and I know it isn't very good. (I have to put my voice on devices as my students can not verbalize, and I cringe sometimes hearing myself.) I made the decision to move forward and it was correct. If I waited for my sound or look to be perfect, I would have missed out on two fantastic years of being myself. I think, it can be good to give ourselves permission to be a work in progress and be out there learning and living. Glad you see that. I will contact a therapist at some point. The voice does cause me stress. Right now my project is working on my facial skin improvements.
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)
"Moni" is pronounced like "Bonnie"

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS, great repair.

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Offline ChrissyRyan

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 02:14:29 pm »
Moni,

Thank you for your nice reply.  I do wish you the best in regards to your facial skin improvements and your voice too. 

The comment from your co-workers seeing “no guy” in you sure has got to be uplifting!

Was it uncomfortable posing on the washer and dryer for your avatar picture?   :)

Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Offline Linde

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2018, 03:11:21 pm »
My major problems to be misgendered is my short hair, and my voice.  My short hair will grow out, Ia m sure of that, even though it seems to have stopped growing since i want it to grow!
My voice is a funny thing, my normal voice has a rather high pitch (I have no Adams Apple and thus a smaller voice box and a higher sounding voice).  I n average I range about 180 Hz of pitch, but..... But trying all these years to sound manly, I trained myself to talk with low of a frequency I can get, and I have a hard time to get out of this habit.  Additionally, I have the typical male speech pattern to lower the voice at the end of sentences.  All my female friends tell me that I sound just like an older woman, who very often have lower sounding voices.  It mus be the speech pattern that gives me away.  I try very hard, not to do this, but I fall victim to my own habits.

You might have a similar problem with your voice, and the bebst thing to do is hang in, and work on it!


Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2018, 03:36:43 pm »
Moni,

Thank you for your nice reply.  I do wish you the best in regards to your facial skin improvements and your voice too. 

The comment from your co-workers seeing “no guy” in you sure has got to be uplifting!

Was it uncomfortable posing on the washer and dryer for your avatar picture?   :)

Chrissy

I have the deluxe model washer dryer so it is pretty comfortable. I kind of glowed for a while when I heard my friend say that. I have no clue how I seem to others.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)
"Moni" is pronounced like "Bonnie"

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS, great repair.

]

Offline Lynne

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2018, 05:00:29 pm »
I'm way "ahead" of you with taking years and not moving forward until I feel my voice is good enough. As I wrote in another thread, I will feel 'complete' when I can pass in every situation without much conscious effort and my voice requires the most effort to be even remotely passable.

I've seen girls here saying that having a good voice is the icing on the cake, which allowed them to really blend in and just live their lives.

I just finished voice practice for today and while I had good moments it still doesn't sound natural enough, it still has some of that "maleness" in it and it still takes a lot of effort. When I'm in the right state of mind my voice sounds a lot better, but I cannot really count on that constantly to improve my voice, my voice has to work even when I'm tired, when I'm out of breath or when I'm sad.

I have worked as a video and sound editor for many years, I can judge sound and voice quality very quickly (and harshly). I am very sensitive to sounds in general. Sounds, voices and noises can influence me greatly and that is a curse when I hear my inadequate voice in my practice sessions.

I basically pass visually until I have to speak loud or for extended periods. The problem is that I did not make much progress with my voice in the last few years, so I'm still not full-time and still not on HRT because after some time HRT would force me to go full-time.

My problem is that a barely passing voice is not good enough for me, it is not enough to express myself the way I want to and I know that in certain situations it would instantly clock me. I had enough bullying for a lifetime and I have been an outcast long enough to know that I do not wish to be the "strange one" again.

I waited for so long that the circumstances changed for the worse, I cannot plan ahead at all because a few months ago our government decided to suspend gender marker and name change procedures for trans people, so at the moment there is no way to change my documents, even if I feel ready to go fulltime.

Offline ChrissyRyan

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2018, 05:41:58 pm »
I have the deluxe model washer dryer so it is pretty comfortable. I kind of glowed for a while when I heard my friend say that. I have no clue how I seem to others.

Moni,

Sometimes it just makes sense to pay for higher quality deluxe merchandise, as there can be some unforseen extra benefits, such as greater comfort.  I am glad you liked your friend’s comforting comment.  :)   Keep on smiling.  I’ll vote for that!

Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Online Jessica_Rose

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2018, 08:13:24 pm »
While there are things I can continue to do to transition, I just cannot see myself being full time unless this voice is convincingly female, not “femme male.”

Chrissy

I had planned to wait a few more months before coming out, which for me coincided with going full time. I wanted to have a few sessions with a voice therapist and let my hair grow out more. But I reached a point when I simply could not be 'him' anymore. 'He' wasn't ready, but 'she' was. I look back at photos I took when I first came out and cringe. My voice wasn't ready either, it broke low quite often and I had a hard time just making it through the day because my voice tired quickly. Still, my only regret is not going full time even sooner. Immersing yourself by living as a woman all the time really speeds up the learning curve! If I had waited until everything was ready, I would still be waiting. I never did visit a voice therapist, and from peoples reactions my voice doesn't give me away. It wasn't easy, but sometimes you just have to dive in even though you know the water is cold.

Offline Allison S

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2018, 07:31:11 am »
It does bring me down. I never really thought much about voices, but since it's one if my insecurities, I really notice how other women's voices sound... I think I'm ok for where I'm at in my transition, but even when I was starting to get gendered female, I really tried to keep my mouth shut... But I'm slowly speaking up now and still only seen as a woman as far as I know. Men don't give me any hesitance in continuing to talk to me even after hearing my voice.
What bothers me a bit more is my short hair... I just can't connect with having short hair. I feel like the layering of my hair is really bad... Most of the hair towards the back is at my shoulders but the front/bangs is just at my jaw/chin length... I want it all to be at least at my shoulders..

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Offline Linde

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2018, 08:32:05 am »
It does bring me down. I never really thought much about voices, but since it's one if my insecurities, I really notice how other women's voices sound... I think I'm ok for where I'm at in my transition, but even when I was starting to get gendered female, I really tried to keep my mouth shut... But I'm slowly speaking up now and still only seen as a woman as far as I know. Men don't give me any hesitance in continuing to talk to me even after hearing my voice.
What bothers me a bit more is my short hair... I just can't connect with having short hair. I feel like the layering of my hair is really bad... Most of the hair towards the back is at my shoulders but the front/bangs is just at my jaw/chin length... I want it all to be at least at my shoulders..

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I think you are doing well.  Talking about short hair, look at mine!  I had it cut extra short at the beginning of the summer, because I wanted to stay gender fluid as long as possible, because I thought I prefer male clothing.  I am now 100% female, because I, like Jessica-Rose, could not go as a man anymore!
I really don't care if my voice gives me away or not, with me, it might not be the pitch, but definitely the speech pattern, ending sentences on low notes.
Who cares what others think of me, for me it is important how I feel, and I feel like a woman (with a funny male speech pattern).  And if they think I am a cross dresser, fine with me, it is their problem!
But I am retired, and nothing really bothers me anymore!

Offline ChrissyRyan

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2018, 08:49:03 am »
It does bring me down. I never really thought much about voices, but since it's one if my insecurities, I really notice how other women's voices sound... I think I'm ok for where I'm at in my transition, but even when I was starting to get gendered female, I really tried to keep my mouth shut... But I'm slowly speaking up now and still only seen as a woman as far as I know. Men don't give me any hesitance in continuing to talk to me even after hearing my voice.
What bothers me a bit more is my short hair... I just can't connect with having short hair. I feel like the layering of my hair is really bad... Most of the hair towards the back is at my shoulders but the front/bangs is just at my jaw/chin length... I want it all to be at least at my shoulders..

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Allison,

It sounds as if you have nice hair, I would like to have your front length all around.
My bangs just go to the top of my lips, at their longest.  I do like the sideways fringe or bangs, to cover my forehead.  I have no layering.

I have one wig, it has hair that reaches the top of my boobs, and it is very fem and pretty.
I prefer my own hair though as it is less fuss than a wig.

You appear to be attracting guys and conversations.  That is good for you!   :)

Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Offline TonyaW

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2018, 09:27:51 am »
I pretty much have said screw it on the voice for now.

In public I try to speak softer and avoid booming and any speaking if possible in restrooms.Dont need anyone that can't see me hearing me talk and freaking out. 

I do get misgendered on the phone quite often though and it can make for some "fun" conversations. Often get asked how to spell my name and have gotten a few YOUR name is Tonya? Haven't had to tell anyone to figure it out yet. 

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Offline ChrissyRyan

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2018, 07:32:12 pm »
I keep working on the voice.  This is a toughie for me, but I am improving.

Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Online Maid Marion

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2018, 09:03:43 pm »
If you can, practice a couple times a day, for perhaps 15 to 30 minutes.  This will help re-wire the brain.  A few short sessions is better than one long session.  I just did this with high heels.  I do two short sessions, once in the morning and another at night.  Now I have the instinctive muscle memory for walking in heels!

If you are so inclined you could study brain plasticity.

Offline Linde

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Re: Some days transitioning seems such an immense undertaking (because it is!)
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2018, 09:08:48 pm »
If you can, practice a couple times a day, for perhaps 15 to 30 minutes.  This will help re-wire the brain.  A few short sessions is better than one long session.  I just did this with high heels.  I do two short sessions, once in the morning and another at night.  Now I have the instinctive muscle memory for walking in heels!

If you are so inclined you could study brain plasticity.
It is really funny, but I feel more comfortable and get less tired feet when I walk in heels between  2" and 3 1/2" high.  Higher heels get uncomfortable, but my feet hurt most when I wear those loafers that hardly have a heal at all!


Offline ChrissyRyan

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Linde,

I am still not "into" tall, thin heels, but some women do look very nice in them.
The shorter, thicker (and shoe-wide heel, perhaps those might be called "elevated shoes" for men's shoes) of a couple of inches I can feel more comfortable in.

Transitioning sure has had me learning and trying things a lot over time and it sure has been interesting.  :). The voice training remains key. 

Have a great weekend!


Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Offline Linde

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Linde,

I am still not "into" tall, thin heels, but some women do look very nice in them.
The shorter, thicker (and shoe-wide heel, perhaps those might be called "elevated shoes" for men's shoes) of a couple of inches I can feel more comfortable in.
I assume you mean the block heels?  The other high heels that are non-stiletto would be the wedge heels that continue from the sole of the shoe into the heel

Quote
. The voice training remains key. 

Have a great weekend!


Chrissy
Just don't sweat it.  Use the advise and exercises NatalieRene has posted, and join us in our Skype sessions, and we help you along.  This would give you the chance to talk with several women similar to a group setting, about all possible things of interest (even about tuning cars), and would teach you the typical way, women talk! (currently, I could demonstrate how a female version of a chainsaw sounds)

You, too, have a great weekend!
Linde


Offline krobinson103

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A lot has changed for me this year.  I am slowly becoming the woman I know now that I should have been years ago.  My body has been transforming, and that is nice.

Rarely do things come by easy, transitioning is for sure one of those things.  There has been so much to learn.  Much comes from the desire to convincingly pass.  Maybe my looks would not be great ever, okay, but my voice is something I just do not want to be the cause of misgendering.

I think that the female voice is a threshhold to cross, so that it absolutely becomes automatic and geniunely female.  For me, practice has been ongoing.  I am at a point that I am honestly affirming that I certainly would feel uncomfortable (at first, at least) when talking with a woman that sounded like a man, so how in the world can I transition further for everyday living as a woman until that female voice has been mastered?  I would be uncomfortable and many others would be too that I would intract with if I did not have that female voice.

While there are things I can continue to do to transition, I just cannot see myself being full time unless this voice is convincingly female, not “femme male.”

So I keep practicing and learning about what to do to control my voice, including vocabulary, pitch, resonance, body language while talking, and more.  Maybe this will take a few more years!  So this takes me back to my earlier statement, rarely does anything come by easy.  I am up for the task though.

I wonder if I will end up feminizing my body really well over time but still not have this voice right.  No, I do not want to throw myself into the fire, I want to be ready.  So my timetable will not be quick.  I accept that.

I guess there is nothing wrong with that.  It is my choice.

Has anyone else here been really stymied by this voice changing hurdle?


Chrissy

Took me round 6 months of solid practice to get into the female range automatically. I haven't had voice surgery and find it hurts to drop back to the old range.
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