Author Topic: “Passing”  (Read 2359 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline no-moose

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Female
“Passing”
« on: November 03, 2020, 07:15:57 am »
In thinking about transition, I’m afraid that I will never be satisfied or at peace with my body....especially if I’m seen as “a man in a dress” by the general public, strangers, etc. What I wish for is to be a girl. Period. But I’m afraid that that is not possible, that I will always have to settle for a facsimile, even if I transition.

I’m 39. Are very many transwomen my age who transition able to be seen and treated as women in public - and not as deviant or freakish? Is there any way to predict satisfaction with transition before embarking on it? It feels like such an enormous risk with no guaranteed payoff on the other side.

I’m terrified.

Probably this is my own internal transphobia coming to the surface. I’m sorry for triggering anyone. This is all so hard. Love and courage to you - and to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline WannaBgirl2

  • Neighbor
  • ***
  • Posts: 72
  • Reputation: +1/-0
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2020, 07:57:47 am »
I know how you feel! I'm 50 and I am a big construction worker.... My dysphoria is to the point where I don't care about my appearance, and I'm focusing on hrt for the mental aspect.... for now... We shall see how I start to feminize, and adjust accordingly.... Good luck, and baby steps are still steps!¡!!

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk


Pammie

Re: “Passing”
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2020, 09:46:44 am »
In thinking about transition, I’m afraid that I will never be satisfied or at peace with my body....especially if I’m seen as “a man in a dress” by the general public, strangers, etc. What I wish for is to be a girl. Period. But I’m afraid that that is not possible, that I will always have to settle for a facsimile, even if I transition.

I’m 39. Are very many transwomen my age who transition able to be seen and treated as women in public - and not as deviant or freakish? Is there any way to predict satisfaction with transition before embarking on it? It feels like such an enormous risk with no guaranteed payoff on the other side.

I’m terrified.

Probably this is my own internal transphobia coming to the surface. I’m sorry for triggering anyone. This is all so hard. Love and courage to you - and to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are many of us who have been pretty successful transitioning later than that - I was 57 when I transitioned as an example. Passing is critical for me and im mainly very successful - mainly being an important word there in my case.
There are others on here who are even more successful despite transitioning later in life. There is always hope for the future. Xx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Oldandcreaky

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,096
  • Reputation: +17/-0
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2020, 11:38:05 am »
In thinking about transition, I’m afraid that I will never be satisfied or at peace with my body....especially if I’m seen as “a man in a dress” by the general public, strangers, etc. What I wish for is to be a girl. Period. But I’m afraid that that is not possible, that I will always have to settle for a facsimile, even if I transition.

I’m 39. Are very many transwomen my age who transition able to be seen and treated as women in public - and not as deviant or freakish? Is there any way to predict satisfaction with transition before embarking on it? It feels like such an enormous risk with no guaranteed payoff on the other side.

I’m terrified.

Probably this is my own internal transphobia coming to the surface. I’m sorry for triggering anyone. This is all so hard. Love and courage to you - and to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where I live, not many women wear dresses, so living in the female role typically means jeans or shorts or casual slacks. I haven't worn a dress for years. I still own a few, but I prefer the ease of shorts in the summer and sweatpants in the winter. Basically, the women dress pretty much like the men, so it isn't clothing that differentiates us, but hair style, size, movement, behavior, pitch, etc. and perhaps most of all, bones and skin tone.

I pass despite being an odd woman, odd in my height, at nearly six feet, and odd in the width of my shoulders. However, these generally masculine traits are offset by my fine bones, my slenderness, my hips, my abundant hair, and my relatively short arms and slender hands.

I'm only talking about myself to give you an idea of how you're likely to be read. What feminine characteristics do you have? Regarding your face, do you have the money to change your masculine features with FFS? What masculine features do you have? When the feminine features outnumber the masculine features, you're less likely to be clocked.

WannaB looks quite masculine in her photo, but when I look beyond the construction worker grizzle, I see a feminine round face and a feminine nose. Can you share your photo?

Offline Jessica_Rose

  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1,471
  • Reputation: +120/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2020, 12:31:51 pm »
I was 55 when I went full time as Jessica. When I started HRT nearly a year earlier, I was certain that I would 'make one ugly woman'. I am 6ft 1in and dropped my weight from 195lbs down to 168lbs. Even before FFS, I had strangers tell me that I am beautiful. Temper your expectations, and you may be surprised at what HRT can do.

As far as being a facsimile, how do you define being a girl, or a woman? Assuming you eventually have GCS, externally you will have all of the 'correct' parts. Some women are born without ovaries or a uterus, some have them removed due to medical issues. Many women have cosmetic surgery, such as breast augmentations, rhinoplasty, facelifts. Is a cis female no longer a female is she if not 100% OEM (original equipment manufacturer)? Just because my brother has two aftermarket shoulders and an aftermarket hip, does that mean he isn't my brother?

Being a woman (or a man) isn't an equation adding up a pile of parts, it's the summation of how you act, how think, and how you respond to your surroundings. Certainly the more boxes you can check off the easier it will be for others to respond to you as a woman, but ultimately don't we define ourselves -- or do we let others tell us who we are?

It does take a leap of faith to make the decision, not knowing for sure what will be on the other side. In my case, suppressing who I was slowly drove me deeper and deeper into darkness. I was ultimately left with two choices -- ending my life, or releasing my soul from darkness. I chose to live.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Offline Ryuichi13

  • Rhee-yoo-ee-chee (say it fast!)
  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,577
  • Reputation: +13/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Tee, Tea or T? (^_~)
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2020, 02:40:00 pm »
I was 55 when I went full time as Jessica. When I started HRT nearly a year earlier, I was certain that I would 'make one ugly woman'. I am 6ft 1in and dropped my weight from 195lbs down to 168lbs. Even before FFS, I had strangers tell me that I am beautiful. Temper your expectations, and you may be surprised at what HRT can do.

As far as being a facsimile, how do you define being a girl, or a woman? Assuming you eventually have GCS, externally you will have all of the 'correct' parts. Some women are born without ovaries or a uterus, some have them removed due to medical issues. Many women have cosmetic surgery, such as breast augmentations, rhinoplasty, facelifts. Is a cis female no longer a female is she if not 100% OEM (original equipment manufacturer)? Just because my brother has two aftermarket shoulders and an aftermarket hip, does that mean he isn't my brother?

Being a woman (or a man) isn't an equation adding up a pile of parts, it's the summation of how you act, how think, and how you respond to your surroundings. Certainly the more boxes you can check off the easier it will be for others to respond to you as a woman, but ultimately don't we define ourselves -- or do we let others tell us who we are?

It does take a leap of faith to make the decision, not knowing for sure what will be on the other side. In my case, suppressing who I was slowly drove me deeper and deeper into darkness. I was ultimately left with two choices -- ending my life, or releasing my soul from darkness. I chose to live.

Love always -- Jessica Rose
This is correct, its more how you act that makes a woman, or as in my case, a man. 

I may not be able to grow a mustache (yet, I hope!), and my beard may be spotty, but I pass 100%.  I had to relearn how to move in a way that men tend to move, which meant I did a lot of manwatching when I first started transitioning.  I watched men in stores (pre-COVID), on TV, in movies, and IRL.  I changed the way I held my hands when I drove, when I gestured, the way I stand, even the way I sit.  I no longer hear my Mom's voice in my head saying "sit with your legs together, you're a lady" whenever I manspread.  (YAY!) 

I changed my actions much as I thought I could.  If there is anything I missed, I haven't realized it yet, or it hasn't been pointed out to me.  Sure, it was a pain re-learning how to move my body in a more masculine way at age 54, but it is do-able.

A lot of what people perceive as masculine or feminine is the way you move and carry yourself.  Its an easy thing to change, and a good thing to start doing, even pre-HRT.

Good luck sis!

Ryuichi

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss




Offline AllieSF

  • *****
  • Posts: 914
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Ain't Life Grand!!
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2020, 04:07:26 pm »
No-Moose,

So, you have physical appearance and then you have frame of mind.  Yes, physical appearance is important to some, probably most, including me, and somewhat using Pammie's words, "to some/most" is key in my input here.  Your true acceptance of yourself as a woman regardless of physical appearances is a very important starting point and also, in my opinion, a very important foundation block to help keep the rest of your mental and emotional self shored up. 

I like to say that one needs to love themself as they are, complicated, in our general cases here, with all our good points and ugly warts.  The external medical procedures and HRT can help somewhat with the outside, but it is the inside strength and acceptance of one's self as a valid human being, to me, that is the most important.  Without that, one could have all the surgeries that money can by and still not be satisfied.  The worry about truly passing, that dreaded word to me, can be overpowering, and can even hold one back from enjoying the life that they deserve and is already available to them.

I have had my surgeries to help improve the outside, with one major one to go.  If I can't get that one, I know that I am strong enough to live "me" as I am today.  I am lucky in that I blend in well, plus, referring to what I said above, I love myself and am proud of who and what I am.  I am not perfect, will never truly pass, as in, relating with others face to face and "always" being thought of as a cis-woman.  Blending in allows me to pass face to face with others in some circumstances, but far from all.  I am OK with that because I like me and am not afraid no ashamed of my new identity and outward presentation, new to me and to those that knew me before.

For many it is not easy to get where I am mentally about being a trans woman, or trans man.  However, every step you can make in this direction can truly help you learn to love yourself more and to accept and enjoy that which you can attain, and help you to be able to push to the back of your mind out of sight of your day to day thinking about how well you physically fit in with the rest of the humans around you.  Being happy, proud, and fearless of being the true you will project out to those around you.  I see it everyday where my interactions and long deep conversations with others, and they are almost daily, are all concentrated to the topic at hand and not who I am nor how I present.  They know it and don't think about it in most of our interactions and conversations, and they still come back to me everyday for more. 

It can take a lot of work and, unfortunately time, to get to this point, but every effort you make toward this state of mind is a positive step and can bring you unexpected happy and comforting rewards.  Good luck and Godspeed.

Allie
HRT - February 2017
Full Time - July 2018
Orchi - January 2018
BA - September 25, 2019
FFS - January 10, 2020
GRS - TBDDD (To Be Determined, Decision and Date)

Offline big kim

  • *
  • Posts: 3,264
  • Reputation: +16/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2020, 04:17:09 pm »
I don't pass. I'm 6'1 & 1/2", heavy built with a voice like Lemmy.I kind of blend in though and am accepted  on the whole. It's possible to look OK without passing, this was me a few weeks bedore my 63rd birthday. I don't wear make up or colour my hair.

https://scontent.fman2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118499883_1268283570189497_1426982968352949900_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=zQdnuX1A1-cAX-VSHqs&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-1.fna&oh=dc2907590da7d80905e2a895e0c49c09&oe=5FC7D500

Offline SarahEL

  • Oh no, I have said too much, I haven't said enough...
  • Family
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 654
  • Reputation: +15/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • That's me in the corner.... That's me in the photo
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2020, 04:36:54 pm »
Oh, 'Passing' again....
Well, the hardest person to pass to is yourself... If you can pass to yourself, also known as accepting yourself.. it really does not matter what others think of you...
Yes, it is hard to accept yourself (and I struggle with it) but IMHO it is the only way....


(&BTW @Kim... how do you not pass.. you look great!)

Oh, life is bigger,  It's bigger Than you and you are not me
The lengths that I will go to.  The distance in your eyes

R.E.M. - Losing My Religion

Offline no-moose

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2020, 05:36:21 pm »
Well, the hardest person to pass to is yourself... If you can pass to yourself, also known as accepting yourself..

You are so sweet, thank you for this. Lots to learn on this journey yet....
I was talking with someone recently who said that transition is a spiritual journey as much or more than physical. That is starting to make more and more sense.

Offline no-moose

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2020, 05:44:13 pm »
Thank you, Allie, for your response. Super helpful perspective.

...Your true acceptance of yourself as a woman regardless of physical appearances is a very important starting point and also, in my opinion, a very important foundation block to help keep the rest of your mental and emotional self shored up....

Great advice, thank you :) 

...one could have all the surgeries that money can by and still not be satisfied.  The worry about truly passing, that dreaded word to me, can be overpowering, and can even hold one back from enjoying the life that they deserve and is already available to them.

I think this dynamic is part of why I'm scared -- going through all sorts of effort, etc. Whether surgeries or whatever...
And wind up on the other side not satisfied or just as depressed....
What I hear you and others saying is that there is very important emotional work to be done - laying the groundwork for feeling better on the other side.

...Being happy, proud, and fearless of being the true you will project out to those around you....

This makes a ton of sense.  And I believe it's true intellectually. Hard to get my mind around it though :/

Offline no-moose

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2020, 05:46:03 pm »
Can you share your photo?

Because my job is so public and because I'm out to very few people, I'm not comfortable doing that yet...
And...I still have a beard, lol.
Once I get that shaved off (I have a timeline and goals for doing that) and start playing with makeup, perhaps I'll throw it out there for feedback :) haha.

Offline Rakel

  • Formerly known as Dani
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4,889
  • Reputation: +79/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Rakel@susans.org
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2020, 07:41:33 pm »
If HRT is in your future, Estradiol can do wonderous things, but it takes a few years to see a significant change. The older you are, the longer it takes.

We have a Before and After thread in Susan's Place. I have not seen any recent posts there, but most of the pictures are still there.

Here are the links to all five threads. Each link has 2000 posts, but not all have before and after pictures. It is unfortunate that some people have removed their B&A picture, but many have still kept theirs on line.


First thread

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106815.0.html

Second

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144104.msg1173149.html#msg1173149

Third

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,168444.html

Fourth

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,210798.msg1866602.html#msg1866602

Fifth

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,251753.0.html




_______________________________________________________________

Retired Pharmacist with over 40 years experience in Hospital and Retail Pharmacies.
I still keep my professional licence active and in good standing.


Offline Rachel_Christina

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,789
  • Reputation: +20/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2020, 02:14:49 am »
It's a real hard topic, if someone can be truly happy with themselves then I'm sure to actually pass amongst strangers and the public does not matter.
I think there are some things that really make passing almost impossible, I think the biggest killer is the mass of the body one may have, and certainly the ratio of rib cage versus hip area.
I think height makes it harder but as long as we are fine in build it does not sacrifice too much.
Face can be worked on, FFS has been around a long time now and us well perfected, but again there are some things that cannot be got passed either.

When I first begun transition, I held highly in my mind that if I could not pass I would never actually do it.
I know I pass now, I never have to worry about that anymore, I was very lucky.
I'm not sure what I would do if I could not pass. Would I just say f it and do it anyway? I really don't know, I'm not the very courageous type. I don't think anyway.
Its annoying as I can never bounce ideas of other trans people in reality, there are very little if us here in Ireland and I certainly don't have any trans friends that I meet with. :/



Offline Devlyn

  • The Forum Administrator
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 32,012
  • Reputation: +251/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • devlynmarie@susans.org
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2020, 03:20:04 am »
It's a real hard topic, if someone can be truly happy with themselves then I'm sure to actually pass amongst strangers and the public does not matter.
I think there are some things that really make passing almost impossible, I think the biggest killer is the mass of the body one may have, and certainly the ratio of rib cage versus hip area.
I think height makes it harder but as long as we are fine in build it does not sacrifice too much.
Face can be worked on, FFS has been around a long time now and us well perfected, but again there are some things that cannot be got passed either.

When I first begun transition, I held highly in my mind that if I could not pass I would never actually do it.
I know I pass now, I never have to worry about that anymore, I was very lucky.
I'm not sure what I would do if I could not pass. Would I just say f it and do it anyway? I really don't know, I'm not the very courageous type. I don't think anyway.
Its annoying as I can never bounce ideas of other trans people in reality, there are very little if us here in Ireland and I certainly don't have any trans friends that I meet with. :/

A guy I used to date put it best:

 "You can always spot a transgender girl; back like a bullfrog, no bum, great legs."

For the most part, he's right...and funny.  ;D
Veteran, US Army

Offline Rachel_Christina

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,789
  • Reputation: +20/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2020, 03:25:22 am »
A guy I used to date put it best:

 "You can always spot a transgender girl; back like a bullfrog, no bum, great legs."

For the most part, he's right...and funny.  ;D


Hahahaha that was hilarious, he got a smack for it I'm sure?
But it was worth it! 🤣



Offline Devlyn

  • The Forum Administrator
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 32,012
  • Reputation: +251/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • devlynmarie@susans.org
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2020, 03:29:50 am »
Nah, I didn't hit him.  ;D

I always say "I don't mind being the butt of a joke... it's this joke of a butt that bothers me."  :)
Veteran, US Army

Offline Rachel_Christina

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,789
  • Reputation: +20/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2020, 05:29:47 am »
Oh Jesus 🤣



Offline Gertrude

  • Trudie
  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,032
  • Reputation: +13/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2020, 07:11:12 am »
A guy I used to date put it best:

 "You can always spot a transgender girl; back like a bullfrog, no bum, great legs."

For the most part, he's right...and funny.  ;D

Or the hands, but height can be a give away or at least lead to more questions.
"No, her mind is not for rent
To any god or government
Always hopeful, yet discontent
She knows changes aren't permanent
But change is"

Neil Peart

Offline no-moose

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: “Passing”
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2020, 08:58:08 am »
What great resources!! Thank you!!!

We have a Before and After thread in Susan's Place. I have not seen any recent posts there, but most of the pictures are still there.

Here are the links to all five threads. Each link has 2000 posts, but not all have before and after pictures. It is unfortunate that some people have removed their B&A picture, but many have still kept theirs on line.


Tags: