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Author Topic: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”  (Read 4064 times)

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Offline mako9802

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Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« on: November 13, 2021, 01:11:30 pm »
I posted a previous topic on this.  People in the LGBT are way to quick to label people as bigots are haters because they disagree with what you believe.  Dissenters are not “haters” people who don’t go with the flow are not bigots.  It’s just a different opinion.  I just see things different.
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Offline Rakel

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2021, 08:05:15 pm »
I think that it really depends on the outcome of that person's opinions before it is labeled hate speech. We can also make educated guesses of future results based on past experiences without becoming blatently prejudiced. What is the likely outcome of yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater?

The LGBTQ community has been so severly persecuted in the past and we are now just more sensitive to anything that is offensive. Not really hate, but more of just standing up and being vocal for our rights.
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Online Northern Star Girl

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2021, 08:44:30 pm »
@Rakel
Dear Rakel:
Very well stated.  I completely agree with your comments on this matter.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
HUGS,
Danielle
Quote from: Rakel on November 13, 2021, 08:05:15 pm
I think that it really depends on the outcome of that person's opinions before it is labeled hate speech. We can also make educated guesses of future results based on past experiences without becoming blatently prejudiced. What is the likely outcome of yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater?

The LGBTQ community has been so severly persecuted in the past and we are now just more sensitive to anything that is offensive. Not really hate, but more of just standing up and being vocal for our rights.
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Offline MaryXYX

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2021, 08:02:05 am »
I think the person who "expressed an opinion" to her followers that the world could be improved by removing me from it was actually using hate speech.  Or even inciting to hate crime.
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Offline Ellie_Jean

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2021, 10:39:24 am »
Quote from: Rakel on November 13, 2021, 08:05:15 pm
The LGBTQ community has been so severly persecuted in the past and we are now just more sensitive to anything that is offensive. Not really hate, but more of just standing up and being vocal for our rights.

^^^This all the way. 💯

Even in the past 9.5+ months that I've been transitioning, I have been acutely and increasingly aware of prejudice and unconscious biases. Sometimes I call people out on it, sometimes I don't, just letting it slide because I know they weren't TRYING to be a jerk, and I don't happen to be up for being honest and vulnerable with them at the moment lol.😅
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Offline Nadine Spirit

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2021, 05:53:52 pm »

So I am kind of bitter about this whole different opinion thing.  Different opinions result in people being treated differently because some people are too different for most people to understand. 

As well not everybody's opinion is as valid as everybody else's opinion on all topics.  My opinion on the best football team is worthless as I hate football, especially when compared to a rabid fan who watches and reads everything she can about it. 

Personally right now "opinions" are currently preventing me from receiving the same medical care as my wife.  Our insurance does not pay for any type of transgender care.  Even for things like therapy.  Mine is for gender, hers is for anxiety, mine is denied, and hers is paid for.  Why? Oh right, a little things called discrimination based upon transgender hate masquerading as opinions. 


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Offline Ellie_Jean

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2021, 06:16:36 pm »
Quote from: Nadine Spirit on November 15, 2021, 05:53:52 pm
So I am kind of bitter about this whole different opinion thing.  Different opinions result in people being treated differently because some people are too different for most people to understand. 

As well not everybody's opinion is as valid as everybody else's opinion on all topics.  My opinion on the best football team is worthless as I hate football, especially when compared to a rabid fan who watches and reads everything she can about it. 

Personally right now "opinions" are currently preventing me from receiving the same medical care as my wife.  Our insurance does not pay for any type of transgender care.  Even for things like therapy.  Mine is for gender, hers is for anxiety, mine is denied, and hers is paid for.  Why? Oh right, a little things called discrimination based upon transgender hate masquerading as opinions.

Straight up. *Hugz* 🤗
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“Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we're afraid!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we will fall!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
And they came.
And he pushed.
And they FLEW.

― Guillaume Apollinaire (French Poet; 1880 - 1918)

Offline Lady Sarah

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2021, 06:45:36 pm »
Going all the way back to the 1990s, I noticed members of the LGBTQ community hating on each other. The L hating the G, and both hating the T, as well as all of them complaining they wanted equality. Back then, I wrote an article that got printed in the San Francisco Bay Times newspaper about that, and how hypocritical it was to discriminate and hate other members of the LGBTQ community, and expect any sort of acceptance from the straight community.

That seemes to only calm down the battles for a few months. It seems to be human nature (tribalism?) to put down and demean anyone that is not part of your particular clique.

Here (on Susan's), people tend to be much more subtle about it due to heavy moderation. In some cases, say something they don't agree with, you will be reported.

There are plenty of entitled Karens on here, trying to make sure everything goes just the way they want it.
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Offline Misato

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2021, 10:26:18 pm »
I think it’s how people approach topics these days. Commit the slightest verbal infraction, and various -phobic and -ist terms start being tossed around. But sometimes the accusations are justified. Echoing a statement above, enough of those forges one into a raw nerve ready to react even when not appropriate.

Add to that in the 10 years since I started transition the process has gotten so much easier. But that ease, and publicity, has attracted attention from those who aim to claw those advances back. While it hurts to not have something, it hurts even more to earn something then have it taken away. Either state can feel like hatred, so the accusations start.
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Offline Ellie_Jean

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2021, 12:15:27 pm »
Quote from: Lady Sarah on November 15, 2021, 06:45:36 pm
Going all the way back to the 1990s, I noticed members of the LGBTQ community hating on each other. The L hating the G, and both hating the T, as well as all of them complaining they wanted equality. Back then, I wrote an article that got printed in the San Francisco Bay Times newspaper about that, and how hypocritical it was to discriminate and hate other members of the LGBTQ community, and expect any sort of acceptance from the straight community.

That seemes to only calm down the battles for a few months. It seems to be human nature (tribalism?) to put down and demean anyone that is not part of your particular clique.

Here (on Susan's), people tend to be much more subtle about it due to heavy moderation. In some cases, say something they don't agree with, you will be reported.

There are plenty of entitled Karens on here, trying to make sure everything goes just the way they want it.

Quote from: Misato on November 15, 2021, 10:26:18 pm
I think it’s how people approach topics these days. Commit the slightest verbal infraction, and various -phobic and -ist terms start being tossed around. But sometimes the accusations are justified. Echoing a statement above, enough of those forges one into a raw nerve ready to react even when not appropriate.

Add to that in the 10 years since I started transition the process has gotten so much easier. But that ease, and publicity, has attracted attention from those who aim to claw those advances back. While it hurts to not have something, it hurts even more to earn something then have it taken away. Either state can feel like hatred, so the accusations start.

🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
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“Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we're afraid!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we will fall!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
And they came.
And he pushed.
And they FLEW.

― Guillaume Apollinaire (French Poet; 1880 - 1918)

Offline mako9802

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2021, 12:47:37 pm »
Yeah I’m the LGBT community you BETTER GO ALONG WITH THE FLOW OR ELSE.!  That’s what I have experienced.  I just try to avoid my local LGBT community especially the trans community here.  They have ostracized me because I am a Male to Androgyne.  They don’t get me here.  I feel like the community in my area are a a bunch of hypocritical jerks…
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Offline Ellie_Jean

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2021, 12:54:59 pm »
Quote from: mako9802 on November 16, 2021, 12:47:37 pm
Yeah I’m the LGBT community you BETTER GO ALONG WITH THE FLOW OR ELSE.!  That’s what I have experienced.  I just try to avoid my local LGBT community especially the trans community here.  They have ostracized me because I am a Male to Androgyne.  They don’t get me here.  I feel like the community in my area are a a bunch of hypocritical jerks…

That's a big fear for me as well; big part of the reason I haven't checked out the local "Glacier Queer Alliance"....feel like everybody would just be staring at me and judging. 😖
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“Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we're afraid!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we will fall!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
And they came.
And he pushed.
And they FLEW.

― Guillaume Apollinaire (French Poet; 1880 - 1918)

Pammie

Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2021, 02:05:38 pm »
Quote from: Ellie_Jean on November 16, 2021, 12:54:59 pm
That's a big fear for me as well; big part of the reason I haven't checked out the local "Glacier Queer Alliance"....feel like everybody would just be staring at me and judging.
In terms of LGBT i personally don’t think it’s a particularly natural alliance. Sexual orientation and gender orientation are two very very different things.
It’s sad when trans community is not accepting and also puzzling. Trans is, I thought universally understood as being a very wide umbrella term


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Offline Ellie_Jean

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2021, 03:00:09 pm »
Quote from: Pammie on November 16, 2021, 02:05:38 pm
In terms of LGBT i personally don’t think it’s a particularly natural alliance. Sexual orientation and gender orientation are too very very different things.

EXACTLY! Thank you! 🤗 💯
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“Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we're afraid!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we will fall!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
And they came.
And he pushed.
And they FLEW.

― Guillaume Apollinaire (French Poet; 1880 - 1918)

Offline Lady Sarah

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2021, 10:02:11 pm »
As we can see, when we attempt to align ourselves with groups that we presume will be on our side, the toxicity of those whom are most definitely not on our side will get to us. If we allow that to happen, we become toxic to our own brothers and sisters, including those on this forum. 💯

It is difficult to leave drama and bad feelings at the door when logging in. Some have posted stuff, not caring about the mods or the feelings of others. Those people have been dealt with. Nobody is perfect, but there is a way to be a good member here. If I am under more stress than normal, I don't come to Susan's. I know my temper and my attitude. This site does not need me if I get angry. I am sure the same goes for the majority.
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Offline Haley Conner

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2021, 04:44:50 am »
I see a lot of "You are not valid" type of comments directed at trans people.  Be it their opinion or not, that qualifies as hate speech IMO.  Marginalizing groups of people is the aim.
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Offline Maria77

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2021, 08:49:09 pm »
In a democracy you have the right to voice your opinion regardless of how it may be received.  But that does not mean it is right to blurt out opinions that you know will be hurtful.   Part of living in a democracy is realizing we are living in a very diverse society.  Good citizenship demands consideration and care for our neighbors.  Thus simple manners come into play.   
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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2021, 09:06:22 pm »
I don't think this is an LGBT exclusive issue. It seems like it's a common trait in the younger generations or more extreme people of the left - a place that happens to have a lot of lgbt people.

Neither left or right are the good/bad guys. Just a bunch of annoying people on either side with social media access.
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Offline Ellie_Jean

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2021, 10:11:24 pm »
Quote from: Evienne on November 22, 2021, 09:06:22 pm
Neither left or right are the good/bad guys. Just a bunch of annoying people on either side with social media access.

So true. I don't really believe in or understand good and evil...they seem like paradoxical man-made concepts which can mean literally anything lol. ...Everyone's the hero of their own story...and everyone is the villain in someone else's. ...How can I possible determine who is ever really "right" or "wrong"?? ...Maybe it's just an autism thing. 😕
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“Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we're afraid!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
"We can't; we will fall!" they responded.
"Come to the edge!" he said.
And they came.
And he pushed.
And they FLEW.

― Guillaume Apollinaire (French Poet; 1880 - 1918)

Offline TXSara

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Re: Why some try to label differing opinions as “hate”
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2021, 07:25:41 am »
One thing I was told multiple times growing up was (paraphrasing),

"If you have a disagreement and you see the other person's view as crazy, foolish, or just COMPLETELY wrong, the chances are pretty good that you aren't seeing the full picture.  Try to see things from their perspective.  You may still disagree, but you'll be more respectful about it."

I wish that more people thought this way -- the truth is that most of our most polarizing issues can be looked at rationally from either perspective.  I believe that it is wrong for us to label people who are politically against the idea of gender transition as bigots -- they have a perfectly rational reason for doing so. 

Argument:  "You get what you subsidize."  The belief among many that are against us is that if you start normalizing the behavior that they are not in agreement with, we will see more and more of it in the future.  Is this true?  I believe it is.  We definitely see more "gender bending" behaviors in high schools today than we did 35 years ago.  I personally believe this is a good thing because it means that people (like myself) who previously would have lived in a closet for many years are now expressing themselves at an earlier age.  Many, though, don't see it that way... they believe that this is a "stage" that kids will grow out of.  I don't agree with this, but it IS a very rational argument.  We should stop labeling anyone who feels this way as a bigot.  That's just lazy.

~Sara

BTW, I am totally in agreement with the "bigots" that MTF kids should not be allowed to compete in sports where being assigned male at birth gives them an unfair advantage.  If you are FTM and you want to join the basketball team, FINE.  If you are MTF and you want to take up figure skating, that's fine too.  Just my opinion...
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