Author Topic: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?  (Read 10593 times)

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pheonix

Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« on: April 28, 2009, 03:44:56 pm »
It seems like at least once a week, tempers flare up in this subforum, often because of misunderstandings about the definition of non-op and folks feeling threatened by our personal positions.  The reality is non-ops are pretty rare among the trans community.  And because of that there are many misconceptions.  I'm typing this out in hopes that maybe we can diffuse some of that.  Much of what I will type is based on my personal experience... other's experience, opinions and views will vary greatly.  I hope other folks here will contribute as well and maybe help to refine this make it a more thorough and enlightening discussion of the non-op experience.

1) What is a non-op transsexual?

Simply, a non-op transsexual is someone with GID that acknowledges their transsexual status but chooses not to pursue GRS of any type.

2) I can't afford GRS, does that make me Non-Op?

Most likely, no.  Lack of affordability does not reflect a lack of desire to have GRS.  If you have a desire for GRS, but can't afford it, you would be more likely Pre-Op.

3) Aren't non-ops contrary to the trans-experience?

Not at all.  GID can display itself in many ways.  Non-Ops identify as transsexuals... we have the clear sense the bodies we were born in aren't necessarily congruent with who we are.  But rather than seeing GRS as a treatment option for us, we pursue other avenues of finding peace with our GID.  Neither choice is necessarily better, they are just different.  Each person needs to determine how they can best deal with these weighty issues.

4) Since FTM's don't have accessibility to effective bottom surgery, aren't they necessarily non-op?

No.  It is possible for a FTM to be Non-op, but they would need to have not had top surgery and have no desire to pursue bottom surgery if Medical technology was to meet the same levels possible as GRS for MTF's. 

If an FTM has top surgery or a hysterectomy, they irrevocably alter their bodies.  In many areas this is sufficent to change their legal gender status.

5) I hate my [penis/ vagina] How can you be transsexual if you want to keep your [penis/ vagina]?

Please be clear, keeping "it" doesn't mean we love having "it".  But it means we've 1) Found a personal way to be "ok" with letting "it" stick around and 2) it's a good personal choice for us.  It doesn't mean we love it or have drum circles celebrating "it".  It's simply a part of our anatomy and we make due.  Ideal world, we'd love to be equipped properly.  But the personal cost/ benefit analysis of GRS doesn't make sense.

6) Are you just a...

Quote
Transvestite: a person who wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally a strong sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

Well, non-ops have no sexual motivation for crossing gender boundaries, so we aren't this...

Quote
Crossdresser: a person wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally no sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

As a non-op, we don't simply wear the clothing of a gender we weren't born -- We fill those roles of our mental gender completely.  The change is permanent -- we don't want to go back to our birth gender, so we aren't this.


Quote
Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Here's the closest fit.  Born in one gender... feeling like the other.  Definite yes!  Desire to Live and be accepted as the mental gender.  Definite yes! 

Generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.  "Generally accompanied" is the key.  With non-ops, this desire will be at many different levels...  some will do hormones, but no surgery.  Others go full-time without either.  We get as close as we feel we need to to successfully function in the world in our perceived gender.

To the folks here, anything inaccurate or that should be added?


 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 07:40:13 pm by pheonix »

Offline Just Kate

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Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2009, 05:17:06 pm »
Thank you very much for your information.  Your definitions are in line with my thoughts as well.  :D

I consider myself a non-op transsexual despite having had an orchidectomy.  Granted, I had it done back when I was transitioning before I stopped my transition.
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Natasha

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2009, 05:46:33 pm »
Quote
Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?

it isn't rocket science.

the term "non-op transsexual" is an oxymoron. the term "transsexual" was coined by a reporter in the late 50's after christine jorgensen had her surgery. at that point in time, there were only 2 terms. ts for those who obtained/wanted surgery, and tv for those who didn't.  the term tg was coined in the late 60's around the time of the stonewall riots and was first used for those who lived as the other sex without grs. so it was for someone who was more serious than a crossdresser, but without the desire for a complete transition. that is what a non-op is, not a preop who must stay there. non-op is in one's head, not in their circumstances.

if a person cannot have grs, they are pre-op, rather than a non-op. if they could get surgery, they would.  a non-op is one who would never get surgery even if you wrote them a check for a million dollars.

furthermore, for me, "can't-op" or "perpetual preop" is not the same as non-op. a non-op has nothing against their original parts below.  non-op is a mindset rather than a condition. what i call a "can't-op" is someone who is too disadvantaged, sick, or elderly to get surgery.  so there is a big difference between having the non-op mindset and simply being unable to have grs.



pheonix

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 09:22:57 am »
it isn't rocket science.

Katia,

I agree with you, but too many here find it confusing.  Susan  just opened this section recently and there's already been fights in here over what non-ops are...

Besides, I'm curious how other non-ops view and define themselves... I know many people in the trans community yet have not met irl a single other non-op....

almost,angie

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 10:10:08 am »
 I guess I will always be a pre op then even though I have desided to not transition. I don`t want to be knowen as a transexual woman but just a woman. If I was passable I would do it but, since I am not I`m going back to my old life and going to try to just deal with it. ( And don`t tell me passability comes from within) I have been off hormones for about 4 months now and things seem to be going ok for me. I get to keep my wife and live with my kids. It`s like no matter what I deside to do it is going to be a frustraiting road to travel. So, why transition? Does this make me a pre op or a non op? It doesn`t really matter , I am just curious.   
  Angie

Mister

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 03:06:54 pm »
Phoenix, i'd probably add something about FTMs and hysterectomy, as it's the surgery that is analogous to an orchi, which i'm sure you'd consider to be post-op.  :)

pheonix

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 07:40:49 pm »
Phoenix, i'd probably add something about FTMs and hysterectomy, as it's the surgery that is analogous to an orchi, which i'm sure you'd consider to be post-op.  :)

d'oh!  Given my friends I should have remember to include it LOL...

kody2011

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 10:19:19 pm »
i think we should all just agree that the person writing chooses his/her own def. of non-op. technically it doesn't matter as long as we're all getting along and we're here for each other.

just my opinion though.

Offline Just Kate

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Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 10:23:59 pm »
i think we should all just agree that the person writing chooses his/her own def. of non-op. technically it doesn't matter as long as we're all getting along and we're here for each other.

just my opinion though.

Well if the definition is relative, it might be difficult to know who relates to you.  I think labels are useful as initial guide posts to say "this particular person might have more in common with you and your experience than that person."  If the definition is relative, it takes away the need for the definition.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com

kody2011

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 09:14:34 am »
true Interalia....i do agree with that, but after the inital introduction of the subject, it should be up to the indiviudaul to decide if they feel like they fit in that catagory or not. i think it would help with this type of disagreement. it's a healthy one (meaning we're not fighting just discussing) but we should have already decided that it really doesn't matter.

pheonix

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 10:24:54 am »
true Interalia....i do agree with that, but after the inital introduction of the subject, it should be up to the indiviudaul to decide if they feel like they fit in that catagory or not. i think it would help with this type of disagreement. it's a healthy one (meaning we're not fighting just discussing) but we should have already decided that it really doesn't matter.

Kody,

I've been on the site for only a few weeks and in that time, I've seen a number of people post some things which are derogatory towards Non-Ops, many times due to their lack of understanding of what a non-op person is.  Most of it aimed at we're NOT transsexuals (we most certainly are) and that we're sexual freaks (we're not).  It's not a situation of Non-ops fighting with non-ops.

This is less about telling someone they are/ aren't non-op and more start a dialogue what we are...  there's a reason I've listed it as a WIP.  I wrote my section above based on  my personal experience.  I do not know everything, nor do I pretend to.  Many other folks have different views and I'd love to incorporate those into the thread...

kody2011

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 09:23:29 pm »
i'm sorry if i seem to disagree with you Pheonix. I agree with you, but in a disagreeing way???? idk...i've put in my thoughts so i guess i'm done with this particular conversation...i don't want to get any body riled up....

pheonix

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2009, 09:46:17 am »
i'm sorry if i seem to disagree with you Pheonix. I agree with you, but in a disagreeing way???? idk...i've put in my thoughts so i guess i'm done with this particular conversation...i don't want to get any body riled up....

LOL- I"m totally not riled up and hope I didn't come off that way... sorry if I did...

kody2011

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2009, 01:25:43 pm »
"LOL- I"m totally not riled up and hope I didn't come off that way... sorry if I did..."

no you didn't...

Offline Jaimey

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Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2009, 02:05:16 am »
For what it's worth, I think this thread is a good idea.  Is non-op defined in the wiki?  (...jaimey has never seen the wiki, nor does sie know where it is and is currently too tired to find it :P)

It might be a good idea to link the wiki to the non-op forum...I was really appalled by some of the arguments that have already come up in this forum.
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

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stephanie_eve

Re: Non-Op FAQ? WIP? Maybe?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2009, 06:15:10 pm »
I also think this is a good idea. I know that I find myself in some freaky grey (or neutrally technicolored) area in the gender identity grid. I've personally recieved some criticism in other forums and chat rooms.

I guess I could almost fit in the TV category, but I transition for more than just sexual satisfaction. There's a certain emotional comfort and sense of well-being I feel when I let myself go, when I forget about the world and just be myself.

I want to look like a woman, live more like a woman... but I've long been afraid of rejection by my peers (mostly by my male peers..), rejection by my family.. and also afraid of never passing... I'm 6'2"... my hands and feet will always be dead giveaways. But despite wanting to pursue FFS, and possibly HRT, I still want to keep my man-bits. I don't mind adding new parts in (like breast implants), or re-shaping parts I have (like my face or the distibution of body hair)... but I don't want to have anything removed.. and I'd rather be able to use what I got, since I am in a very caring and supportive relationship with an wonderful young woman who loves my feminine ways...  ;D

anyway... it's dinner time.. having some home-cooked shrimp alfredo...

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