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Mind over matter!!! Does it work ?

Started by Anatta, June 16, 2011, 04:18:10 PM

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Amazon D

Quote from: Padma on June 17, 2011, 10:35:16 AM
When the sum is greater than the parts, but people maintain their individuality, then it's a force for good. When the sum engulfs the parts, and no-one is allowed to have individuality (or want to have individuality, and the personal responsibility that goes with it), that always leads to more suffering.

this speaks to me: 8)

You should create a separate topic about being an individual? Not that you are or aren't but many here are, while others try to fit in with a peer group. However many don't, and its a good thing like you say when people do their own thing.  Too many people give in to the peer groups and don't follow their inner spirit/voice. see this video of this woman to understand.  ruth_stouts_garden-1of2.avi

I use to try to fit in but since i have switched clothing and cut my hair i am just an individual and much happier since i don't worry about fitting in with other TS's.. However, many people still do not appreciate the individual. It seems even many individuals are not appreciated so they seek peer group people instead of individuals like themselves verses peer people. Not exactly like themselves but another individual. .
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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kate durcal

The mind is but matter, so it is about matter over matter, yes?

Kate D


Kia Ora Zenda,

I apologize for disturbing your mindfulness

Shalom
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Princess of Hearts

Quote from: Zenda on June 16, 2011, 11:05:12 PM
Kia Ora Princess,

No I haven't read any of his books, he's a Shaman isn't he?

Metta Zenda :)

Yes he is a adopted Hawaiian shaman.   I have three of his books on Huna which I heartily recommend.





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Anatta

Quote from: kate durcal on June 18, 2011, 09:26:39 PM
The mind is but matter, so it is about matter over matter, yes?

Kate D


Kia Ora Zenda,

I apologize for disturbing your mindfulness

Shalom


Kia Ora Kate, { it would n't be "mindfulness" if I was disturbed}  ;) ...

::) Since when as the "mind" been a physical thing? The brain is "matter" but the mind...well that's another story... ;) ;D



"Buddhist philosophy states the reality of things to be fundamentally nondual-absent of any subject-object duality. So, while a growing number of contemporary neuroscientists adopt a material monist view that reduces all mental phenomena to brain processes, Buddhism tends to adopt a non-material monist view that sees formlessness as the ultimate substrate of inner experience!"

Form is emptiness- Emptiness is form !

::) How the mind and the brain are related remains something of an ancient mystery...[for some]  ;)

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Anatta

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on June 18, 2011, 10:14:54 PM
Yes he is a adopted Hawaiian shaman.   I have three of his books on Huna which I heartily recommend.

Kia Ora and thanks Princess,

::) I did google him to find out a bit more about him...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Quote from: Zenda on June 18, 2011, 10:46:43 PM


::) Since when as the "mind" been a physical thing? The brain is "matter" but the mind...well that's another story... ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

Sice we realize that without the brian (matter) ythere is no mind (cnciusness, thoughts). The mind is nothing but the electrophysiological activity of billions of neurons.

Just think how the mind is affected by accidents. Famous case for us: there is this guy who has nver had any GID incling, then one day he ingested an nose inhaler (Vicvaporub), and then for the next 3 years he was completly TS, demanding surgery and hormones and CD's. After the drug was eliminated from his sytem, he recover his previous mind, no trce of GID

I know people want to belive that the mind is somehow not physical, but this is not true. The mind is an illusion -a holographic and holistic- represntation  created by our brain to fools us into beliving that we are a monlithic entitity.

There is not mystery, no need to invoke esoteric enrgeis or powers, just biological matter.

Those who chose not what is so live in a pleace near reality.

Kate D
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Jayne

Mind over matter does work, well it did for me years ago.

When I was about 8 yrs old I had a very bad fall at the seaside & smashed pretty much all the teeth in my mouth on the unforgiving rocks below, from that day on i've had to deal with endless dentist appointments & after a few years I developed such a bad phobia about needles that for 5 or 6 years I would have my treatment done without anesthetic, root canals, fillings & teeth being pulled!!

I would arrive about 15 minutes before my appointment & sit in the waiting room listening to calming music such as Enigma or Mike Oldfield (the songs of distant earth was the best for this), I would keep my walkman playing throughout the treatmant & hardly ever felt any pain, my various dentists would be both amazed & horrified at me having a tooth drilled without any pain relief & showing little sign of discomfort.

The mind is an amazing & powerfull thing, just when you think you've sussed its limits it will suprise you anew
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Amazon D

Quote from: Jane on June 19, 2011, 10:19:31 AM
Mind over matter does work, well it did for me years ago.

When I was about 8 yrs old I had a very bad fall at the seaside & smashed pretty much all the teeth in my mouth on the unforgiving rocks below, from that day on i've had to deal with endless dentist appointments & after a few years I developed such a bad phobia about needles that for 5 or 6 years I would have my treatment done without anesthetic, root canals, fillings & teeth being pulled!!

I would arrive about 15 minutes before my appointment & sit in the waiting room listening to calming music such as Enigma or Mike Oldfield (the songs of distant earth was the best for this), I would keep my walkman playing throughout the treatmant & hardly ever felt any pain, my various dentists would be both amazed & horrified at me having a tooth drilled without any pain relief & showing little sign of discomfort.

The mind is an amazing & powerfull thing, just when you think you've sussed its limits it will suprise you anew

That reminds me of electroysis which i loved and so i thought it felt like acupuncture (even though i never had that) to me but others seem to hate it..
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Anatta

Kia Ora Folks,

::) Here's the full video clip about the Tibetan Buddhist's death, where the mind/consciousness remained in the body for 18 day after the body had died... 

::) Weird that...It has the scientists and other medical experts baffled...[it runs in two parts, around 8 and half minutes the first part and 6 the second]...

http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news

Happy Mindfulness :)  "Ah the magic of the mind-wonders never cease!"

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Anatta

Quote from: kate durcal on June 19, 2011, 09:47:22 AM
Sice we realize that without the brian (matter) ythere is no mind (cnciusness, thoughts). The mind is nothing but the electrophysiological activity of billions of neurons.

Just think how the mind is affected by accidents. Famous case for us: there is this guy who has nver had any GID incling, then one day he ingested an nose inhaler (Vicvaporub), and then for the next 3 years he was completly TS, demanding surgery and hormones and CD's. After the drug was eliminated from his sytem, he recover his previous mind, no trce of GID

I know people want to belive that the mind is somehow not physical, but this is not true. The mind is an illusion -a holographic and holistic- represntation  created by our brain to fools us into beliving that we are a monlithic entitity.

There is not mystery, no need to invoke esoteric enrgeis or powers, just biological matter.

Those who chose not what is so live in a pleace near reality.

Kate D

Kia Ora,

::) And how do you "know" it's not true Kate!  ::) After all your "belief" too, is just a "belief" nothing more nothing less....There's no "concrete" scientific proof, even though some scientists might "believe" as you do, but they can't prove what they "believe"...

::) And besides, what is "reality" Kate ?  ::)  ;)

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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VeryGnawty

Quote from: Zenda on June 19, 2011, 02:37:32 PMAnd besides, what is "reality" Kate ?  ::)  ;)

Reality is that annoying thing which continues to persist when you stop believing in it.
"The cake is a lie."
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kate durcal

If mind over matter would work, there would be no death, and the earth will be filled by healthy, happy, beautiful, and rich people.

Jump out of airplane with out the scientifically-made parachute and you will see just how well "mind over matter really works"

Kate D
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VeryGnawty

Quote from: kate durcal on July 04, 2011, 04:49:12 PM
Jump out of airplane with out the scientifically-made parachute and you will see just how well "mind over matter really works"

I'll challenge a parachute against someone's belief in levitation.  Any day of the week.
"The cake is a lie."
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Padma

Just because someone believes the mind and body influence each other doesn't make them automatically stupid :). Citing a ridiculous extreme like paraless-chuting is just... ridiculous.
Womandrogyneâ„¢
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tekla

Perhaps, but anytime you're moving beyond the laws of physics you're moving into charlatan territory.  Though there is a lot of work going on with this notion in top physics labs, this is not a top physics lab.  Mostly this stuff is used to sell hope to the desperate, and as such, it's fraud.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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tekla

The final mind over matter story that I recall, shows the limits of it...there was a Russian guy who thought he could manipulate matter...so he stood in front of a bicyclist, and *willed* the bicyclist to stop before crashing into him. This worked, so he decided to see if he could up the ante a bit, so he jumped in front of a car, *willing* him to stop, also...again, the car stopped.  Then he wanted to see how strong his mind's abilities were, so he decided to try and stop a freight train....the train *willed* otherwise. (True story).

He's been offered millions of dollars if he could prove that it was real, and not a stage trick.  (And I worked with David Copperfield, it's cool how he makes a Winnebago or 727 disappear, but it's a stage trick - a real cool stage trick, NASA level science and technology at work, but a trick in the end) That money is still there.

What you give examples of is mind over mind, not mind over matter.  They are not 'meditating' they are 'visualizing' (you can see pro skiers doing it before their runs too) it's a form of practice and of memorizing the right moves so they are instinct and not 'thought out' because at world class downhill level - or Blue Angel flying level - if you have to think first, you've lost.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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xxUltraModLadyxx

i've found it can help with dealing with pain. physical pain is intensified when you are anxious and focus on it. women in labor is one example.
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kate durcal

Quote from: Padma on July 05, 2011, 08:21:44 AM
Just because someone believes the mind and body influence each other doesn't make them automatically stupid :). Citing a ridiculous extreme like paraless-chuting is just... ridiculous.

A "ridiculous" example of for a "ridiculous" notion. But for the sake of debating, let me give an example closer to home so to speak. Lets try our affliction, a biological birth defect of the stria terminalis (this is the matter) causes GID. How many psychiatrists, priests, preachers, and psychologist have tried through different techniques to teach  us to use our mind to control the matter (GI) so we accept our gonads as the determinants of our gender and not our brain. They tried their "mind over matter" techniques and variations thereof, psychotherapy, meditation, prying, to no avail. Finally the APA declared that GID (a matter) could not be cured by the force of the mind.

Even today, as the medical evidence in favor of GID be purely biological in nature, the "mind over the mind" types, you know the bible-banggerd and such, continue to pander their "ridiculous" techniques.

More examples? let see: depression, bipolar, etc; try the mind over the matter with these ones.. No good either.

Kate D
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Sephirah

Quote from: kate durcal on July 05, 2011, 05:09:21 PM
More examples? let see: depression, bipolar, etc; try the mind over the matter with these ones.. No good either.

Not sure I'd agree with you there. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy has been shown to work with those conditions. That's just about changing the way you think.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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kate durcal

Beg to disagree BT doesn work with anything and has bee largely replace by parmacoptherapy. Only minor neurosis are treated with BT.

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