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How Have Your Religious Beliefs Evolved Since Coming Out?

Started by Julie Marie, June 03, 2011, 06:41:24 AM

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Jigsaw

I was raised as a Mormon.  I respect their views, but when I came out to my family, my mom (maybe my uncle) made sure to have the church visit me.  So I asked them to leave and then I visited the Elder of the local church.  I flat out asked him the stance of Mormons on trans folks.  He told me I am a sinner and being trans is not accepted by god.   I stood up, asked him not to have people call or visit me because I had no further belief that the church or being mormon was for me.

Now, I don't go to church any more.  Not that I don't believe there is a god, because I do believe in a god, just not what is force fed to me as a child and young adult.  I wish I could find a church I could believe in, but so far I have not found one.  Maybe one day.
"I've just lived my life. I always feel that if you live your life and you live it honestly and are good to people around you that everything will be OK." ~John Barrowman
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Lee

My dad still jokes about me coming home from school one day when I was little and asking him what religion we were.  He told me that we were (our last name)-ists, which meant believing what you believe without being willing to be bullied into what you don't or pushing it on others.  (I happily accepted that went off to play.)  By that definition, I'm still a devout follower of (my last name)-ism, though the specifics have changed and no longer involve a higher being.  However this was before aiming for transition.  I'll let you know if anything drastic changes, but I am very comfortable in my current set of beliefs and morals. 
Oh I'm a lucky man to count on both hands the ones I love

A blah blog
http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,365.0.html
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Darrin Scott

Like some of you, I was not raised in a religious household. I did however get sucked into Christianity for 4 years. After coming out as lesbian I realized I could no longer support a group of people who think I'm bound for hell. I quit going to church and denounced my faith. It does suck that Christians use their bible to condemn people. I haven't told anyone about my issues with gender, but whatever Christian friends I have I might lose. It's just life. I now have a lot of friends in the LGBT community. Although, I don't have any trans friends.  :(

I consider my foray into Christianity my "lost weekend".





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Plain Jane

I was raised catholic, but not strict religious. Since my teens I have gradually shifted to somewhere between agnostic and atheist but I don't think it is related to my transition.

For the most part the Netherlands is a pretty tolerant place from a religious point of view, I think. Personally I know some people who attend a very strict church (no work on Sunday's of any kind, including television. Though I think they have softened a bit the last few years) and we get along very well. There are some pockets of "bible thumpers" in the country but I mostly avoid those areas.

In my American half of the family I have a cousin who is very religious. When I first came out and he heard about it, he was let us say "resistant to the idea". We get along fine these days. I suppose I have been lucky in that respect.

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Tammy Hope

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 04, 2011, 09:11:52 AM
This is so sad but not uncommon at all.  When religious beliefs ultimately result in the breaking up of families I wonder why those who are doing the rejecting can't see how wrong this reaction is. 

In the majority of religions, it is completely contrary to their teachings.  Yet rarely does one hear of a religious leader admonishing the parent or family member for throwing their own flesh and blood out of the family for being gay or trans.  Unfortunately, it's the Christian believers who are the worst.

I want to say, "Before you criticize my house, fix your own."  But I know that would only fall on deaf ears because there's this omnipotent element in their beliefs.

Still reading the thread - but just a tiny point of order here - the stricter interpretations of Islam are much more harsh on this point than any sort of Christianity - at least Christians are not stonning us or performing "honor killings"
Disclaimer: due to serious injury, most of my posts are made via Dragon Dictation which sometimes butchers grammar and mis-hears my words. I'm also too lazy to closely proof-read which means some of my comments will seem strange.


http://eachvoicepub.com/PaintedPonies.php
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Tammy Hope

the home I was raised in was only nominally Christian (in the sense that virtually all Southern American homes are nominally Christian. My father had been raised Southern Baptist and my Mom AR Presbyterian.

We spent every weekend with grandparents (my brother and I) alternating between the two as the grandparents were actual practicing Christians.

I was "saved" as the Baptists call it when I was nine, in what was probably my first attempt to get "normal" (I knew already i was trans but didn't know what it meant that i was supposed to be a girl, or that anyone else ever felt that way).

Through my teen years, I tried to reconcile my "perversion" with my faith (which was sincere if ill-informed) with varying degrees of seriousness.

When I was 22, after having spent about 3 or 4 years "backsliding" (another Baptist cliche) I attended a crusade at which an evangelist named Freddie Gage (who's still at it i believe) told me (from the pulpit, not personally) that God would heal anyone of their "besetting sins" (listing off a long list which included alcoholism, drug addiction, and homosexuality) if they would give it to God and serve him wholeheartedly.

I took that seriously and re-committed myself to my faith at that point and for the next 21 years, I pulled out all the stops. Faithful church attendance, years of tithing, teaching classes, going into the ministry and preaching, you name it. also, of course, getting married and starting a family (married a little over 3 years after the crusade)  based on my faith that God would in fact rid me of my unfortunate condition.

Along the way I privately prayed, begged, pleaded, bargained, - you name it - with god to somehow get him to do what the preacher had promised me he would. He didn't. Meanwhile I was publicly towing the SBC line and repeating the same lies I'd been told ("It's a choice" "no one is born that way" and etc). Even when I had clear evidence those things were not true.

Eventually, I had to ask myself - do i serve a God who will command you not do or be a thing which you can repent of for 20 years and still not be free from?

Makes no sense.

Do I serve a god who, in spite of all the teachings about grace, would condemn me for being something I desperately dfid not want to be?

didn't add up.

Is there any other explanation which would account for how i fel other than a condition present from birth?

Nope.

the obvious conclusion then, is that I was botrn this way - and that any God worth following wouldn't condemn a soul for something they were born with.

In short, if i WAS born this way, then the church had it wrong. now, for a believer, it's no mean thing to assume that centuries of scholars and experts have studied the Word and reached an incorrect conclusion - BUT given my situation, I had no choice but to re-examine the record. and not just as it related to being trans but the whole thing.

In point of fact, it's not a matter of the Bible being wrong, it's the people. Throughout the history of the church there's a track record of people reading their cultural bigotries into the word and dressing their bad ideas in the robes of religion. (Racial bigotries, for instance, or the state church, or forced evangelism).

If i looked with a more skeptical eye, I had to note that various groups of Christians, all professing to faithfully follow the Scripture, could not agree even on the most fundamental foundations of Christianity (how to be reconciled to God, the proper mode of worship and prayer, the proper form of Baptism and what it meant, the nature of the afterlife).

If that was true, how could anyone state with confidence what God had to say about trans people (or Gays)?  Heck, in my part of the word different denominations couldn't agree on how people were supposed to dress. Clearly  there had to be SOME reason why this bunch said a woman shouldn't wear pants and that bunch said it was alright.  The obvious conclusion was human beings seeing in the word what they wanted to see - that which confirmed their own biases.

Once those "scales fell from my eyes" I had to look at the whole book differently, the whole nature of what God intended vs. what man did with it.

i've always been of the opinion that the divine was far more than humans could begin to grasp, and we know if him only that tiny sliver which he decided to reveal of himself. i still think that's true, but in an even broader context.

I view the Bible as a series of object lessons, in a sense, like fables. I do not think that it is necessary to believe that Noah, or Job, or Joesph were actual people to learn the lesson God would have us learn from the stories about them.

I do think it is his word, and i do think the ultimate truth is the God paid the price for us that, as imperfect beings, we could never pay for ourselves (there's a lot deeper theology behind that but i won't bore you) - but the details of any given story are not the point - the point is that (1) God is, (2) he helped us where we could not help ourselves in terms of relating to him, and (3) he tried to give us a picture of how we are supposed to live and relate to each other. the bible is not a history book, it's a lesson book in how to get on in this world - illustrated by both positive and negative stories.
And, most importantly, only to be understood in the context of the original audience who would first hear it. Whatever we get from it is secondary.

By religion now is basically a sort of Christ-centered deism.  I don't think any Christian denomination gets it right and i think most of them are very obtuse in insisting that they do, with very little flexibility for re-thinking traditional doctrines.

also - and this is surely self-serving, and might be just an emotional stage I'm going through - I've found myself with almost a hedonistic attitude. I'm so disillusioned with rules-based religion that I have a hard time respecting ANY moral rules right now. If i had the equipment and opportunity, I'm pretty sure I'd be a notorious slut. I simply am burnt completely out on "proper behavior"

I'm assuming this will pass.
Disclaimer: due to serious injury, most of my posts are made via Dragon Dictation which sometimes butchers grammar and mis-hears my words. I'm also too lazy to closely proof-read which means some of my comments will seem strange.


http://eachvoicepub.com/PaintedPonies.php
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Joelene9

  It hasn't evolved that much, just my angst and rage moderated quite a bit.   It is like my mother chewing out that fifth grade teacher I had.  She said "You want rubber stamped children, well, I don't raise rubber stamp children!  All of my children are different and I love them that way!"  God does not create rubber stamp souls as well, it is part of His plan.  The same rules apply, but there are some flexibility in some of them to accommodate all those different souls. 
  Even my identical 4 1/2 year old identical twin grandnieces say they're different.  They deplore identical clothing and toys!   
  Joelene
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Cirnobyl

Well I've been kinda wanting to share my beliefs more in depth so I guess I will here. BIG piece of writing here. Sorry, pretty much dumped my entire spiritual belief system here. Anyway...

I no longer call myself "christian" because that term in usage is far different then in definition. In definition, it means to believe in and accept Jesus CHRIST as savior. In usage, it means to be part of a xenophobic collective hivemind that requires you to think the same way, believe the same way and live the same way as dictated. I only recently cast off that term, but does not mean I have cast off my beliefs which, while unorthodox are still in line with the -definition- of being christian.

So what does that all mean? First, you need to understand that the entire basis of Christianity as a religious doctrine is founded on a MASSIVE assumption. That assumption is "The writers of the bible were guided by divine inspiration and thus the words in the bible are infallible.". This belief comes out of the thin blue air and is repeatedly contradicted by events and statements within the bible itself. For instance; "All people are 'evil' and liable to sin" But not the jews who wrote it? Even Matthew, a disciple, broke his promise to Jesus and denied his knowledge of that man when interrogated. Taking this and more into account, to take the bible literally is absolutely foolish. Seeking metaphors is just stupid too, either whats written is TRUE or it is FALSIFIED.

Which comes to my second point. How does one know whats true or false? What is the writings of a concerned priest wanting to maintain his ideal of morality, or the word of god? Well that in my belief is what Jesus came here for. He said that "the church is inside you" and that faith in Christ "will show you the way". What he was saying was "Accept me, for I live in your heart and can guide you from there. The house of god resides here.". So, establishing a deep, spiritual connection within yourself is absolutely crucial. Rather then read the bible, I simply read my heart these days. It does sort of become like some Christians talk about "walking with god".

From there, my beliefs have become much more fluid. At heart i only hold a few things to be absolute.
God wants you to be happy. Anyone who tries to deny you this "in the name of god" is mislead.
Sins are sins for a reason. Most have consequences and none of them lead to true happiness. To be a sin, an action must have a actual negative consequence. The 10 commandments are a obvious example. Another example; Sodomy is not a sin, neglecting your wife and children to engage in it is.
Hell does not exist, at least not in the way it is written. There is no way for a human in one life time to commit enough evil to justify a ETERNITY of suffering. Purgatory, maybe. Self made, mental hell? Very likely, but not necessarily eternal.
Jews are not a chosen people. This is the most blatant piece of nationalistic writing there is. Every religion conveniently describes its founding race as being a "Chosen people". This is a HUGE tip off that the bible is not written by divine guidance.
Revelations, Isn't.
People all over the world, with or without Jesus's words, have managed to establish that connection to some extent and come up with some truth. The are worth listening to.

Controversial: Regarding the nature of the universe, creation, ect. Currently my main view is that the world is largely mundane. It runs on carefully specified clockwork, wound up and let go during the big bang. Like dominos set up to fall in a certain way. Absolute knowledge of all the laws of the universe allows god to be the beginning and know the end so as to essentially be "the alpha and omega" at the same time. Sort of like Laplace's demon only with two quirks. Free will and Quantum variability. Humans possess free will, and I believe at the quantum level is where god can effect change "in real time". Perhaps changing the way air molecules randomly interact with lead molecules of a bullet, gently causing it to take one of a near infinite number of slight deviations, to avoid hitting you. This like all predetermination stances has the age old issue of "What about free will? Where do we figure in?". Hm, when I think about it, how 'free' are we? We are after all products of our surroundings, genetics, history, ect. Again I think any variation here is extremely subtle, like the path a bullet takes through air.

Of course I have a competing, much more spiritual/animistic view as well. That reality itself is made up of the  so called "holy spirit". It is in that way that asking god for help can effect real change. Kind of like a spiritual matrix. This is more of my instinctive view, because lord knows I ask for help a lot. Way more then simple quantum interactions could achieve, as far as I know.

So any way, I've done my duty. I hope at the very least I helped you get some sleep tonight. xD

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Julie Marie

The problem I have with the Bible being written under Divine Inspiration and it being God's Word is, If this is truly God's word and God is infallible, why are there so many ways to interpret it?

I have heard believers say, "God wants you to figure it out for yourself."  You mean God, all knowing God, who should know full well that people would interpret His Word in countless ways if there is the slightest bit of ambiguity, and end up with numerous versions, still went ahead and told the writers to write what they did?  Does this Guy just like to mess with us?

No all-knowing, all-seeing, infallible, kind and loving entity would do this.  Not the God I grew up being told about.  So the only conclusion is the Bible was written by man, just as each writer saw things.  And by reading some of the stuff, I think there was an element of mental disorder with some of these guys.

When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Seras

What makes you think that you would be able to easily understand the ultimate being of the Universe with an intellect and ability in all things stretching into infinity?

Maybe the message is that there is never any one message and that any situation can be seen from many perspectives and interpreted in many ways :P
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some ftm guy

when people get into the really complicated questions i just think "i can believe whatever i want no matter what anyone says, can't take the bible literally and God is not something to believe or not, God IS." and am able to relax.
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Julie Marie

Quote from: Seras on June 18, 2011, 11:58:41 AM
What makes you think that you would be able to easily understand the ultimate being of the Universe with an intellect and ability in all things stretching into infinity?

Yeah, the whole concept of infinity can be mind boggling.  I've been "dabbling" in trying to fathom that since I was a kid.  But it was only recently that I began to look at the underlayment of religion.  And that came about once I stopped hiding the fact I'm trans.  What followed was I was banished from "normal" society. 

Going from someone who enjoyed all the rights and privileges of the mainstream male to those of a trans woman was pretty shocking.  I had no idea how deep prejudice and bigotry can be seated within a person.  I always knew there was a negative view of trans people but I never made the effort to find the source.   And when I started digging for the root of this, I found religion at the base.

Common sense, based on what I was taught about religion, told me this was hypocritical.  I thought religious people were kind and loving and accepting.  But what I saw flew in the face of that belief.  While I know most religious people are what I have always believed them to be, I found the most vocal to be just the opposite.  But whenever you have a large group of people all believing in the same thing, it will attract power hungry, greedy people looking to lead them.  And they are the ones doing the damage.

When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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AweSAM!

I've never been very religious, but I became a 'radical' atheist since I've been 15, and I still am. I live for me, and not for someone else; it's selfish sounding, but I don't need motivation to be the best person I can be. My consternation with certain religious groups has merely increased due to the fact that now I'm one of the groups specifically discriminated against by some dumb people (most religious people are quite nice, and I do have some slightly religious friends). I'm complacent in the fact that not everything can be answered, and that I don't need a scripture or a deity to give meaning to my life. When I die, I my consciousness will be extinguished, and my body will rot. If I lived a good life, and people choose to remember me, then I am happy. To some this sounds depressing, but I don't mind, because there is a lot of motivation for me to have a fulfilling life, and to make the most of it. Now that I'm on the way to being happy through the process of transition, I finally feel as if I can make the most of my life.

I will not criticise anyone on their beliefs, since if that's what makes them happy, and it's harming no one, then I'm happy they're happy.

Tammy Hope

the knee-jerk instinct is to defend people of faith, based on the huge number of them who give deeply of their time and treasure for others.

But ultimately, why bother? if the concept of God I find reasonable is true, he acted on our behalf BECAUSE we are broken, flawed, failing people. A rousing defense of how good religious people can be is false without that context.

do I believe in "religion"? Not remotely. It hasn't been the source of all humannity's ills, but it is an example of one of the ways people en mass tend to screw up, no matter how reasonable the belief system.

I do not think the failings of religion tell us much one way or the other about God, unless your only concept of God is a meddling control freak who seeks to pull the strings on a world full of puppets.
Disclaimer: due to serious injury, most of my posts are made via Dragon Dictation which sometimes butchers grammar and mis-hears my words. I'm also too lazy to closely proof-read which means some of my comments will seem strange.


http://eachvoicepub.com/PaintedPonies.php
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Silas

I was brought up in a Baptist home, but I was always extremely nervous about the faith. I never felt the holy spirit's presence, and that always bothered me. Every time they would ask the young "non-Christians" to come and do the prayer (the admit, believe, and confess thing), I'd always go. The pastor got kind of worried about me. I got baptized when I was 10. I liked the ceremony, but it felt empty to me. At night, I'd lie awake and pray, asking for some sign of existence (even though the Sunday school teachers always said this didn't work, you had to have faith -- I didn't get that either). A lot of times, I'd address prayers to a goddess, like god's wife, but I'd always apologize to god for this, explaining I was doing so "just in case she exists".

I gradually stopped going to church once I realized the faith wasn't for me. I didn't like how it seemed like everyone was using god just to get into heaven, and I didn't like how they made god out to be so petty than he would actually condemn someone to an eternity of torture for things they did in a life that wouldn't even last forever. I also don't see Yeshua of Nazareth as a god. I mean, he seems like a nice character and all, but I see him more as a rabbi-carpenter who was trying to reform Judaism. I don't know a lot about him.

I studied different spiritualities -- I tried Wicca, but even the god/goddess duo was iffy for me. I'm also very bad at keeping rituals and learning holidays, and I guess I never really scratched the surface of the faith. I respect it, it just doesn't click with me. I tried Buddhism as well, but nirvana scares me. Eternal bliss sounds nice and all, but I see it like this -- if one is always happy, they will eventually be numbed to the emotion. There can be no bliss without chaos.

So I've kind of evolved into a spiritual secularist. I believe, but I refuse to take sides. I believe every "holy" being ever considered in any way by any being (of any kingdom -- plant, animal, etc.) exists, possibly forever, living its own life and helping those who need help, even if on accident. I'm sure we help them without knowing sometimes. I don't think any of them are higher or lower than us. They're all equal. Afterlife is whatever you want. I wish for reincarnation. I don't believe hell exists. If you think someone's going to hell, your idea of them might, but they won't unless they want to.

I don't think any of this was related to my gender or sexuality. I never prayed for a magic sex change. I mean, I once confided in a goddess that I'd like the idea, but I knew it would never happen.

I respect religions and faiths, but the followers must earn my respect.
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Brent123

I was raised Jewish but I was never very religious to begin with. I went to services, celebrated holidays, and had a bnai mitzvah with my twin brother. Though those things were fun, I don't know how to believe in the tales of religion. I can't say that being trans has affected how religious I am because I didn't really like the idea of religion before. I don't mind it at all. However, I do not like how it is used to discriminate against minorities.
Every day brings me one step closer to being myself.
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sneakersjay

I posted this link in Just For Us.  I came across it when googling something else.  It may be useful for those here who lean towards Christianity.  Also useful for defending yourself from those who hurl Bible passages at you.

http://whosoever.org/index.shtml


Jay


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Nemo



New blog in progress - when I conquer my writer's block :P
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Sabriel Facrin

In my beliefs, it's very important to behave according to one's natural self, and purely live by the strengths of a creature.  Civilization is alright since they're just tools set by humans acting in the way they naturally behave in, but one problem in my beliefs is finding any self-alterations abhorrent: Unnatural developments and progress of the body was believed to break synchronization between body and soul, and in that I considered any kind of augmenting (like implants), drugs (Even if life-saving), etc., would be sync breaking.
Naturally, I wasn't going to be up for doing anything for being a transsexual for those beliefs, but when the feelings hit me hard, I really carefully went over the details behind that part of the beliefs, and really kind of felt like it wasn't really that logical after all.  I redecided that if it's acting according to our natural self to use body alterations, that isn't it natural like anything else? D: Additionally, I thought about the nature of what exactly the soul was syncing up towards in the first place, and I realize that there's a lot more I could stand to think of in that in the first place...

Butyeah, if I never accepted myself, I don't think I'd ever really secondguess my beliefs on that area. ^^;
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Annah

I went from being an Assembly of God Youth Pastor of 10 years to a Interfaith Wiccan (basically, a Wiccan who find truths in all religions). I am now going to a progressive christian seminary.

My standpoints had gone from fundamentalist to progressive.

It wasn't really that I had changed so much per say. Rather, I have the freedom to worship and believe how I want to. :)

Blessings Be,

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