No Penis, No Voice

[Natasha]

No , No Voice

http://www.ts-si.org/global-warning/30728-no-penis-no-voice
6/29/11
By Lisa Jain Thompson   

The great majority of gay men routinely ignore the needs of lesbian women. They seldom support lesbian initiatives and seem mostly interested in their penises and getting laid. Like most men.

Lesbians are best left to their own bars and ways, out of sight of the men.

Straight men, gay men: still men first and foremost. Sexual preference is a secondary sexual attribute.

Transgender men and male cross-dressers routinely lecture women on who exactly is a real woman. They seem to think that because they have a penis, they are the ultimate arbitrators of womanhood.

[Princess of Hearts]

I don't like the author's use of the term 'transgender men'.    I am transgender but I am not a man I am a woman, or more accurately a girl.   Also what transsexual/transgender person would be so crass as to go about lecturing genetic women on what is or is not appropriate for women?!     I sit at the feet of my mother, my sister and my sister's girlfriends and listen to what they say and what they share with me.   My mother has had 20+ years expereince of life as a woman I would be very foolish not to listen to her advice carefully.  My older sister is my role model, she accepts me 100% as her sister.  Why would I want to deride  her constant love and support by telling her what  she as a genetic female should be like?
I think that the author is just indulging in a rather bigoted extended moan.

[kate durcal]

More whining. Women have their own game, it is call "vagina privilages." Meaning you do not do what I say, you do no get to play with my vag.

Kate D

[Alice.Wonderland]

Maybe we could lecture her about how she's wrong.  Ya know since I have a penis and all.  I must know everything right?

uhg...

Why is this lady attacking people that are in the same boat as her?  It's like turning against your friends...
I also don't understand why she's after the gay men?  I mean they aren't attracted to the V, they want the P and therefore aren't gawking at the women.  I don't understand what lesbian initiatives are vs gay initiatives?

I smell a sexist.

[Padma]

Why *should* gay men (for example) be focusing on the needs of lesbians? Does that imply that lebians (for example) should also be focusing on the needs of gay men? Or is the author assuming it ought to be one-way?

I think it's just the age old battle of everyone wanting the most support for their own group. To me, this is the big problem with LGBTetc. - yes, I understand how it's valuable to club together as "the oppressed" but the concept of mutual support is rarely realised in practice, because while the thing that gay men, lesbians, bisexual and trans<insert inflammatory label *here*>s have in common is that we experience oppression, that's actually all we have in common. Each group does have its own very real, very different issues to deal with, and I think it's unrealistic to expect too much support and empathy from each other beyond a certain point. (And it's not as if everyone inside each of those groups necessarily has the same issues to deal with anyway.)

Naturally, there are exceptions to this, people who are outside the bell curve in terms of being able to empathise with people whose experience is other than theirs and work together, but on the whole I think (just like most people on the planet) we're all rather too caught up in sorting out our own difficulties.

I personally feel that it's fine if each group wants to get on with it on their own - and if there are people within the "trans community" who want to identify themselves as a separate group within that, let them. False solidarity can be just as disillusioning as isolation, and I think we're all far better off finding people who we really have things in common with than assuming we "should" have stuff in common and forcing it on each other. Over the last year, I've been to a bisexual group and to a singing workshop, and I have way more common ground with the singers than the bisexuals, when it comes down to it. And getting to know people singing (which opens up a lot of stuff) made me appreciate that everyone's suffering some kind of oppression, from without or from within.

Late Night Rants'R'Us.

[V M]

That article has my vote for the Fickle Finger of Fate Award for this week    She's either having an off day a rather confused individual

[spacial]

Kate, hits the nail, even if her language is somewhat colourful. 

[rejennyrated]

I have to say that I personally share many of the opinions that this article voices to a greater or lesser extent and I thought that some of her analysis was pretty much on the money. If that makes me seem like a postop elitist then I am sorry, that really isn't my intent, but I do agree that there is a marked difference of resultant perspective after irreversible surgery, plus of course having grown up somewhat in the female role I am probably also a good deal more conditioned to this than some.

I do agree that women have their devices but my allegiance is on that side of the fence and so naturally I am irritated by male vices whilst excusing those of my own side. I am sorry to say that I also do find being lectured on certain aspects of things by people who are, from my perspective of several decades, only recently arrived to the party, slightly galling. In saying that you must remember that I have in one way or another effectively lived for about 44 of my 51 years in my target gender, as opposed to some here who are only just beginning and that probably colours my view unfairly. It's just one of many reasons why I am no longer posting so much here, though of course I continue to wish you all well from a distance - and as you can see from this message I will pop in from time to time.

[Rock_chick]

I don't like the author's use of the term 'transgender men'.   

She means FtMs.

[tekla]

She means ...
Well... if she means that, then she should write that, otherwise she's writing like a sausage. 

Opps, I take that back.  After reading that, sausage is too good for that slop, I've read 3rd graders who write better.  Start with, "What's a paragraph mommy?'



I also do find being lectured on certain aspects of things by people who are, from my perspective of several decades.

For you, from one of my favorite dead songs.

I won't leave you drifting down
but woah it makes me wild
with thirty years upon my head
to have you call me child

[EmilyElizabeth]

She means FtMs.

she clearly doesn't

[Taka]

*sigh* for all her stupid claims she couldn't present a single real life example when it comes to anything to do with g, l, b, or t. she couldn't even make me understand what she means with transgender men and transsexual women and whatever

this whole thing is just a good derailing of anything with penis. pretty unfair really, the penises i mingle with a great guys, or girls, with integrity and much more common sense than what was presented in the article. i've even had many individuals with penis listen attentively to me and some granting me authority, despite my lack of a real physical penis. almost as if what matters is what's inside my head

[Rosa]

The author may have some valid points about male privilege, but obviously has bias - "transgendered men" versus "women born transexual."