No-Op transexual vs Pos-Op FIGHT!!! in spanish television

[Ann Onymous]

Ann,
ehhh, not quite the way I see it.
See, I almost wound up in this no-more-$$$-situation PLUS medical restriction due to brain (cranioplasty) and heart surgery (quad-bypass).
The former happened just 3 days before my scheduled SRS.

Which, as I noted in the earlier post, VERY different from the person who says "I *DO NOT* want surgical intervention...I WANT to keep the original equipment."  And that is where I draw the line...

[Shana A]

From "Standard Terms and Definitions on Susan's Place" https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html

Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

[...]

Post-Ops: Transsexuals who have had surgical procedures to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex. For MTF transsexuals this is generally considered to be after Genital surgery (GRS, orchiectomy, and/or penectomy), for FTM transsexuals it is generally considered to be after top surgery.

Pre-ops: Transsexuals who desire to to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex, but have not yet had the surgical procedures for whatever reason.

This is not intended to be a glossary of all tg related terms. This just defines the make-up of the community on this site.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

If we remove all the terms like transgender transsexual etc from the equation , Val seemed to hit the nail on the head when she used the word "CONTENTMENT"...

My position is somewhat unique...[Bear in mind I'm "asexual"]

The first psychiatrist I saw asked me if I wanted to have surgery- I said I hadn't given it much thought I was more interested in openly living my life as a female...

When I went full time I was under the impression genital surgery was out of my reach, I had more pressing financial concerns relating to my ex's and children's well being to contend with...

I had already begun to conditioned myself [found a level of contentment] to what seemed inevitable at the time[living with a foreign body between my legs] ...The NZ driver's licence was the main form of ID I used, fortunately it doesn't have any gender markers on it, I had already change my name by deed poll 18 months prior to going FT...

After four years full time the British government passed the Gender Recognition Bill which for me [because I was born in the UK] meant I could legally change all my legal documents without having to have genital surgery...

Just prior to this I had been looking at castration this would remove the need to continue with anti androgens, however I found through the trans grape vine the NZ government was funding 3 M2Fs and 1 F2m surgeries over a two year period...I also found out my endocrinologist could apply on my behalf for this government funded surgery, which he did...I was one of the successful applicants and the rest is history...

The point I'm trying to make is, prior to genital surgery I had found "contentment", I was already living full time in society as my psycho sexual identity and  was seen and treated as such...Only a few close friends, some government officials and my doctor need my full story[what was still between my legs]...Being accepted for government funded surgery was a bonus but not a necessity  for peace of mind, I had already achieved this when I started to live as my true gender in public...

My heart goes out to those "transsexual" people [M2Fs] who feel their sole purpose in life is to have genital surgery to become whole...The saddest part for some, is even after surgery, they still lack true "contentment"[peace of mind] ...My contentment began when I started living in society as my affirmed gender[pre-op/non-op] and after surgery my contentment level remains the same as prior to surgery...Happy and content doing what I was doing before surgery...

I still support the rights of "all" gender diverse people to be [if they so choose] legally recognised for who they feel they are -with or without surgery... I myself had found contentment with HRT alone...

With all this squabbling over terms and conditions I often wonder if some "transsexual" post op people will ever find true contentment...

But it's "Different strokes for different folks !" I guess....

Metta Zenda            

[marelivki]

im just saying because the country is good at making surgery and it pretty easy doset mean there aceepting. iran is also very good at sexchance surgery but the country itself will only accept transgender if there a "steriotype-trans" wich I dont see as being accepting.

What does it mean to be stereotype trans?

[~RoadToTrista~]

It means trans people are always seen as slutty mtf prostitutes.

Edit: In Thailand. In Iran they probably have to strictly follow gender roles and stereotypes or whatever.

[marelivki]

It means trans people are always seen as slutty mtf prostitutes.

Edit: In Thailand. In Iran they probably have to strictly follow gender roles and stereotypes or whatever.

LOL. Why would transsexual people have more rights? The same goes for genetic women. If you are decent muslim woman, then you are respected, the same goes with transsexual woman, if you are not, no matter if you are GG or transsexual - you won't be respected. I don't see anything wrong in it. Get real.

[Imadique]

Kia Ora,

My heart goes out to those "transsexual" people [M2Fs] who feel their sole purpose in life is to have genital surgery to become whole...The saddest part for some, is even after surgery, they still lack true "contentment"[peace of mind] ...My contentment began when I started living in society as my affirmed gender[pre-op/non-op] and after surgery my contentment level remains the same as prior to surgery...Happy and content doing what I was doing before surgery...

I still support the rights of "all" gender diverse people to be [if they so choose] legally recognised for who they feel they are -with or without surgery... I myself had found contentment with HRT alone...

Very nicely summed up. I hate that our community is so prone to bickering over stupid shit all the time. Then again I do enjoy an argument, so just to stir the pot: only two of the five definitions Valeriedances posted specifically refer to acquiring the primary sexual characteristics of the opposite sex. The others only talk of change in general terms, suggesting a medically defined transsexual can transition to varying degrees and still fit in the box.

[mimpi]

There's no such thing as "non-op" transsexual.  What they really are is ->-bleeped-<-s.  Pure and simple.

That's a horrendous thing to say, there are people out there without money and others have medical impairments to srs.

I'm deeply shocked by that comment. Vergognati.

[Leek]

1:50 !!!!!

The girl with pink dress (Amor) (Post Op), says that Nova (No-op) is gay for not wanting surgery

For those who don't speak Spanish, but are interested in knowing more exactly what they said (which was interesting to me), I went ahead and translated the video:


Nova: "Good evening."

Amor: "Hello, my love."

Host: "Nova, you don't even want to look her in the face?"

Nova: "No."

Host: "Why?

Nova: "Because I'm absolutely not going to miss anything. And because I find it indignant that this woman, after calling me a ->-bleeped-<-got indirectly is off crying because [someone whose name I didn't catch] called her that three months later. YOU HAVE NO SHAME! And here's a [written] form [indicating] gender disphoria from..."

Amor: [trying to interrupt] "Sweetheart..."

Nova: "...a psychologist, given to me..."

Amor: "Look, I..."

Nova: "...which YOU don't have!"

Amor: "Listen to me. I should respect you because, to me, you are the representative of the museum. You are a painting. [I have no idea what she means here, btw. If it is an idiom, I don't know it.] And then, I want to say as well, that you, for as much as you want to maintain that you're a woman, for as much as you feel that you're a woman..."

Nova: [interrupting Amor] "No, I have it, accreditation from a psychologist! Accreditation from a pschologist!"

Amor: [while being interrupted] "...sweetheart, a woman is characterized [defined] as [someone] having a vagina."

Talking over each other:

Nova: "You, because you need one [a vagina], but I do not! I don't reduce a woman to...."
Amor: "If you don't have a vagina--...Why don't you need one? Why don't you need one?"

Nova: "Because I accept myself as I am! Because I accept--"

Amor: "Because you prostitute yourself--that's why!"

Nova: "Here, I am going to challenge you."

Amor: [interrupting] "--that's why..."

Nova: "And you're going to demonstrate what you just said...because it is a damned [literally 'blessed'] lie."

Amor: [at the same time, interrupting] "Because you said on TV that you prostituted yourself with clients of your choosing. You said it yourself on TV."

Nova: "You are a shameless person. You are a shameless person."

Amor: [at the same time, interrupting] "A shameless person? And what are you?"

Nova: "At least I can say that I don't sleep with futbol players and bullfighters. Pig!"

Amor: [interrupting, at the same time] "And what are you? And what are you? But--*gasp*"

Nova: "Pig! I'm sick of being educated [?] with [untranslatable insult] like you!"

Amor: "Listen to me, sweetheart....Can I speak? Can I speak?"

Nova: [while Amor is talking] "Pig! You're a pig and a [unintelligible to me]. And for being around people who have not educated you...[unintelligible]. Today, I will allow myself [the pleasure of doing something], gentlemen!"

Amor: [while Nova is talking] "Can I speak? Can I speak? Can I speak?..."

Male Voice: [towards Nova] "You, allow yourself whatever you'd like..."

Host: "Let's see, speak, Amor, speak!"

Amor: "Sweetheart, you say--listen to me!--you say--can I speak?! She may call me a pig, but to have this futbal player you would have to have been born three times, and on top of that natural, because you've had surgery everywhere except where surgery is needed."

Nova: [interrupting] "Of course, everywhere that I've felt like [having surgery]!"

Amor: "And let me tell you something, I may be a pig--I may be a pig in the sense--"

Nova: [talking over her] "Don't touch me! Don't touch me after calling me a whore and a ->-bleeped-<-got! Don't touch me after calling me a-- ...But what I don't understand is [qualitative arguing] in regards to physical..."

Amor: [at the same time, talking over Nova] "I may be a pig in the sense of sexuality, but you have the face of an ape! You have an ape's face! You have the face of a monkey, my girl! Of a monkey! Because you're an orangutan."

Nova: "Stop calling me--" *hits her*

Host: "C'mon, Nova...c'mon, Nova...Nova...Nova..."

[Nova leaves]

Host: "C'mon, Amor. How are you doing, Amor?"

[female hostesses say something particularly unintelligible that includes the word "whore" and "because of these two"]

Host: "Are you damaged?"

[A whole din of people talking, so it's hard to hear what each person is saying.]

Amor: [sobbing and unintelligible to me]



And that's what happened.

Talk about catty, both of them. And Amor may have a vagina, but she hasn't a shred of class.

(Btw, it's also worth it to note that calling someone a "pig" in that way and especially the word for "whore" that was used ["puta"] are worse in Spanish than calling someone that in English. There's no real English equivalent. It's never friendly or mild. Ever. There is no "Oh girl, you whore! *giggle*" They are fighting words, plain and simple, so it's not totally surprising that someone hit someone eventually.)

[~RoadToTrista~]

Didn't realise that they were so childish lol

[aphrodite]

hmmm that's interesting!

[aphrodite]

What does it mean to be stereotype trans?

i'm curious bout that myself

[winter88]

wow the one in pink is so damn passable i would never clock her she look slike a real woman damn. . the pre op one in black u can tell is trans. i guess cutting off the testosterone really fems you out like a woman

[Guantanamera]

IMHO everything is better in Spanish. It's just sooo much more dramatic than English.

[Joeyboo~ :3]

IMHO everything is better in Spanish. It's just sooo much more dramatic than English.

hahahah. THIS ^^
It's also funnier.

[JenJen2011]

For those who don't speak Spanish, but are interested in knowing more exactly what they said (which was interesting to me), I went ahead and translated the video:


Nova: "Good evening."

Amor: "Hello, my love."

Host: "Nova, you don't even want to look her in the face?"

Nova: "No."

Host: "Why?

Nova: "Because I'm absolutely not going to miss anything. And because I find it indignant that this woman, after calling me a ->-bleeped-<-got indirectly is off crying because [someone whose name I didn't catch] called her that three months later. YOU HAVE NO SHAME! And here's a [written] form [indicating] gender disphoria from..."

Amor: [trying to interrupt] "Sweetheart..."

Nova: "...a psychologist, given to me..."

Amor: "Look, I..."

Nova: "...which YOU don't have!"

Amor: "Listen to me. I should respect you because, to me, you are the representative of the museum. You are a painting. [I have no idea what she means here, btw. If it is an idiom, I don't know it.] And then, I want to say as well, that you, for as much as you want to maintain that you're a woman, for as much as you feel that you're a woman..."

Nova: [interrupting Amor] "No, I have it, accreditation from a psychologist! Accreditation from a pschologist!"

Amor: [while being interrupted] "...sweetheart, a woman is characterized [defined] as [someone] having a vagina."

Talking over each other:

Nova: "You, because you need one [a vagina], but I do not! I don't reduce a woman to...."
Amor: "If you don't have a vagina--...Why don't you need one? Why don't you need one?"

Nova: "Because I accept myself as I am! Because I accept--"

Amor: "Because you prostitute yourself--that's why!"

Nova: "Here, I am going to challenge you."

Amor: [interrupting] "--that's why..."

Nova: "And you're going to demonstrate what you just said...because it is a damned [literally 'blessed'] lie."

Amor: [at the same time, interrupting] "Because you said on TV that you prostituted yourself with clients of your choosing. You said it yourself on TV."

Nova: "You are a shameless person. You are a shameless person."

Amor: [at the same time, interrupting] "A shameless person? And what are you?"

Nova: "At least I can say that I don't sleep with futbol players and bullfighters. Pig!"

Amor: [interrupting, at the same time] "And what are you? And what are you? But--*gasp*"

Nova: "Pig! I'm sick of being educated [?] with [untranslatable insult] like you!"

Amor: "Listen to me, sweetheart....Can I speak? Can I speak?"

Nova: [while Amor is talking] "Pig! You're a pig and a [unintelligible to me]. And for being around people who have not educated you...[unintelligible]. Today, I will allow myself [the pleasure of doing something], gentlemen!"

Amor: [while Nova is talking] "Can I speak? Can I speak? Can I speak?..."

Male Voice: [towards Nova] "You, allow yourself whatever you'd like..."

Host: "Let's see, speak, Amor, speak!"

Amor: "Sweetheart, you say--listen to me!--you say--can I speak?! She may call me a pig, but to have this futbal player you would have to have been born three times, and on top of that natural, because you've had surgery everywhere except where surgery is needed."

Nova: [interrupting] "Of course, everywhere that I've felt like [having surgery]!"

Amor: "And let me tell you something, I may be a pig--I may be a pig in the sense--"

Nova: [talking over her] "Don't touch me! Don't touch me after calling me a whore and a ->-bleeped-<-got! Don't touch me after calling me a-- ...But what I don't understand is [qualitative arguing] in regards to physical..."

Amor: [at the same time, talking over Nova] "I may be a pig in the sense of sexuality, but you have the face of an ape! You have an ape's face! You have the face of a monkey, my girl! Of a monkey! Because you're an orangutan."

Nova: "Stop calling me--" *hits her*

Host: "C'mon, Nova...c'mon, Nova...Nova...Nova..."

[Nova leaves]

Host: "C'mon, Amor. How are you doing, Amor?"

[female hostesses say something particularly unintelligible that includes the word "whore" and "because of these two"]

Host: "Are you damaged?"

[A whole din of people talking, so it's hard to hear what each person is saying.]

Amor: [sobbing and unintelligible to me]



And that's what happened.

Talk about catty, both of them. And Amor may have a vagina, but she hasn't a shred of class.

(Btw, it's also worth it to note that calling someone a "pig" in that way and especially the word for "whore" that was used ["puta"] are worse in Spanish than calling someone that in English. There's no real English equivalent. It's never friendly or mild. Ever. There is no "Oh girl, you whore! *giggle*" They are fighting words, plain and simple, so it's not totally surprising that someone hit someone eventually.)

Great job with the translation.

[JenJen2011]

wow the one in pink is so damn passable i would never clock her

I know right. Haters will hate though.

[Apples]

Ugh. Never thought I'd see "Salvame" here.

100% of what appears on that program is completely scripted, and always made of fights, more fake than professional wrestling.

[Snowpaw]

There's no such thing as "non-op" transsexual.  What they really are is ->-bleeped-<-s.  Pure and simple.

Clearly a old post/thread but I just want to comment since it's up on the recent posts.

What a ugly hate filled post and I can only imagine the kind of person who believes this line of rhetoric. It is a damn shame we as a community have people who would love to divide us this way. I pity that line of broken thinking.

[Kevin Peña]

What a ugly hate filled post and I can only imagine the kind of person who believes this line of rhetoric. It is a damn shame we as a community have people who would love to divide us this way. I pity that line of broken thinking.

I completely agree. I frankly loathe the brainwashing of modern society that tells people to denounce those who are different. People need to start looking past petty issues like birth gender and accept people for who they are inside. After all, there are natural females who are much meaner than some trans females.

A bit of change would do this world some good...