Tomboy? No, ma'am.

[valkyrie256]

   Hey, everybody! For those who care to read, I have made quite an interesting realization. Earlier,  I had said previously that I may be a tomboy in a male body, or even Androgyne. Well, I can definitely discount the tomboy bit. Why? I was talking with my significant other (who is quite likely a transman), and I asked hir if they would like being called ,'sir', and to which zie responded yes, they would like it. (Sorry if the pronouns are mixed up). I then reversed it, and asked how I would feel about being called "Ma'am", or "Miss". And honestly, that does not sit right with me at all.

   So then, I though, maybe I am an Androgyne. Maybe I am neither gender. But, even more recently, I had another epiphany.What if I am actually a cisgender male, who just happens to dislike what is considered masculine? A male who just happens to be sensitive, and perhaps has a few other mildly feminine characteristics, but is otherwise still male.

   I'm feeling a little more strongly toward cisgender male, but I still not certain, and I understand that figuring all this out may take time, even though it has frustrated me to various degrees recently.  I've only told my partner, and anyone who has read any of my posts on this forum, about what's going on, and I honestly haven't had the will or opportunity to tell any of my friends, though I plan on doing so soon.

Valkyrie

[Joelene9]

  I do identify myself as more of a female tomboy than an androgyne, even though androgyne describes my current status.  The tomboys I know like to do some manly stuff and dress in men's or men's like clothing, but dressed feminine on occasion.  Probably Brünnhilde the Valkyrie did as well.  A grave of amazons and their village was found in Central Asia (Turkmenistan, Kirghistan?).  The women had the battle scars, swords, spears and shields along with the jewelry and other feminine items in their graves.  Some of the males had the domestic items buried with them, one with a baby placed on his arm.  This tribe was mentioned by the early Moslem conquerors from that era as something fearsome.  No evidence of reason why this tribe died out was found.
  Joelene

[Padma]

I think discovering how you feel is way more important than putting a name to it. If there's one thing that's obvious being on Susan's, it's that each "identity label" can means as many different things as there are people using it.

I'm currently thinking of myself as "Tomboy, Interrupted" - and it's obvious that it means something at least subtly different to me from what it means to either of you who posted above this - and that's fine .

So my advice would be just to give yourself the time to get acquainted with your senses of gender and sexuality and see what comes up.

[By the way, I know you didn't mention sexuality in your post, but I added it because it seems to be the other thing that people get caught up in trying to suss out and label, and is also something that tends to shift about unexpectedly as people get more into their sense of gender.]

[RhinoP]

I have about a billion labels and each of them are very thought out to the point that they reflect whichever specific financial situation I may come across in my life. If I was a broke bum on the street, I would wear a tribal mask with female attributes. If I had the money to at least improve my skin conditions and to change my craniofacial shape, I guess that would be somewhere between crossdressing and being transgendered. If I had the money to tackle my body parts after the facial change/improvements (which I want first and foremost), then that'd be full transsexualism. At the end of the day, I truly am a "realist" above everything else, and my specific labels will always reflect what is physically, emotionally, and financially possible for me at the time; depending on the source of funds and ability to pass, my labels may be very different at times to retain the most happiness and maturity in a given situation.

For instance right now, I have to identify as male for a slew of reasons, and I'm trying my best to make it work until I'm able to change. My personal little tool to cope with this is to hang out with boys whom I consider cool, attractive, and admiring, and this emotion and envy gives me the strength to at least be proud of my male identity in favor of being around a hot boy that I secretly want to have sex with. It's probably the most essential tool that will help me get my life started. However, it doesn't work most of the time because all the cool, hot boys in my life think I'm an extremely strange, ugly geekwad even in my male form. I have way too many physical and mental health issues to really fit in anywhere, no matter what Identity I feel is right for the time period.

However, I believe first and foremost that FFS, Skin Treatments, and Hormone Therapy (specifically anti-androgens) will open doors for me for many, many of my Identities and will give every single possible Identity door in my life a new way to shine more realistically. A physical improvement is truly what I seek foremost in my life; any ugly person would naturally want that no matter what their identity is, and I believe that being attractive in an Androgynous, soft, modern sense is the essential first step to opening the doors to other identities, such as Trans, Androgyny, Male, Female, whatever someone may want. Androgyny tends to be the freedom that lets a person choose who they want to be, giving them a palette that could even prepare them for "reverting" if they choose to do so. Since my life is plagued with financial loss and troubling times, I find it quite the goal to have at least a facial palette that simply looks youthful, symmetrical, and healthy - this would give me the key to truly identify with any identity I please, and quite frankly, there's quite a few I'd be happy with.

I'm just not happy with the identity I've been forced to have my entire life because of my extremely masculine, Acromegaloid appearance. It's one of the most restricting appearances once can have. I just want to look more symmetrical, soft, and improved - even in my male identity - and that will give me the strength and physical social ability to choose what I want to do from there. I'll have the first steps of my happiness and I'd be able to receive a better life as it comes my way.

[valkyrie256]

Joelene9: I have not heard of these Valkyries, but it does sound pretty awesome that they were feared female fighters. I gotta go do some research!

Padma: You're right; a label can mean many different things to different people. Btw, when I think tomboy, I think of a woman who may or may not look feminine, but whose personality tends to be a bit more masculine. Also, I do believe that pinning a label on it, however tempting, is something that, at this point at least, is going to cause frustration. It's just that, honestly, I do not know how I feel. Primarily, though, it tends to vary between feeling "I'm a cisgender male with a mildy feminine personality" to "I don't feel like I belong to either gender", "though I will occasionally get the "I am tomboy in a male body feeling". God, I'm all over the place! 

RhinoP: Interesting insight on Androgyny, especially on being able to revert. In a way, I am trying to go in this direction a little and see where it goes. Currently, it'll be minor things, like letting my hair grow out and maintaining it, and perhaps dressing in a more feminine manner.  If it turns out that it doesn't fit, I can revert back to my old "ways" with little trouble. If I do like it, I can keep going, and figure out what feels most comfortable.

[RhinoP]

Well, my thing is I just want to look like an improved, healthy version of myself. Studies of today prove that typically-"masculine" features like acne, oil production, sagging skin, brow bossing, cleft features, broken noses, ect ect are the result of detrimental hormonal imbalances, and even lethal diseases like Acromegaly. Looking like a man in today's world is not the same lax standard as it was in our parent's generation; most of the people of today's world are more attracted to emotional, soft, androgynous faces with a touch of male or female. Studies around the world have simply proven this over and over again; they've even proved that the most common human face is strictly an Androgynous one.

So, facial Androgyny and Attractiveness are, wether anyone wants to admit it or not, the same thing, which is actually a good thing. This means that if an Androgyny male gets surgery or improvements, they can still pass as a highly attractive (and probably even more attractive than before) male. Males get plastic and craniofacial surgery all the time, I think the numbers last year as released by the ABPS were in the 5 Million range. This even applies to MTF's; if you're a MTF who'd be simply satisfied with looking Androgynous to pass, you can simply get conservative craniofacial or skin improvements that would realistically give you a pass in both genders *not putting hormones in the picture here*.

I mean, I've done huge studies comparing androgynous youths to haggard/strictly-female looking youths, and I've found that the Androgynous-looking youths tend to have no strict pattern in terms of interests and activities. This means that an Androgynous male typically has the attractiveness and lack of outward judgement that they can choose any identity and choose any life goals without harassment. However, when it comes to very haggard boys (husky boys, haggard boys, boys with advanced aging), these boys tend to be emotionally stuck in a place where they have to do "masculine" activities because of society's expectations and to fit in. I've found that the choices of youths have nothing to do with mental conditions or preferences, but have more to do with a stereotypical appearance and a slow-process mold that a youth feels they have to fit into.

^Explains why many MTF's don't "come out" or even "realize" who they are until age 60; most of these older trans are the ones who looked very haggard during their youth.

[Joelene9]

^Explains why many MTF's don't "come out" or even "realize" who they are until age 60; most of these older trans are the ones who looked very haggard during their youth.

BUZZZZZZZZ!
  Wrongo!  I looked so young that I was carded at a honky-tonk joint (with Merle Haggard songs is the only haggard here), of all places, at age 35!  The hips grew out during my third growth spurt before age 27.  It was the politics and the attitudes of the people of the times we 'seniors' lived in. 
  Joelene