Observations and irritations about trans in media

[Wolf]

A couple things have spurred this thread, which should probably be in a place for both FTM and MTF but I only really post here so *shrug*

The first thing is that I've been watching re-runs of the L word on Living, with my friends, and we started right at the point where Moira (?) is becoming Max. Now this was teh first time I'd watched the L word anyway, and you know, it seems like a progressive show. A bit later on and I keep getting really freaking annoyed at the story arc for Max. I know trans people have been in a couple of shows, but let's face it it's not common. I reckon this is a show with a lot of influence, and I know this is probably a very old plotline but whatever. Firstly, as far as I can tell from reading what people post here about T.......... It's far more normal for a guy to become far more peaceful / happy / calm in life on T (passing more, feeling better in their own body, exciting changes etc) than say, aggressive and dickish. Of course some things are bound to change, but only within the boundaries of the personality you already had. The show seems really biased against Max's transition, he turns into a total ->-bleeped-<-, and it feels like he's instantly separated from the other characters on the show. They explain it a little saying he's on too much T, but that seems like a cop out to me. There is a scene with a 'trans meeting' and it all sounds really contrived and unrealistic, the way those guys were talking about it. Pissed me off. Then again surely they don't depict lesbians in a true light, from this show you would assume ALL lesbians are raging sluts and sleep around constantly.

That's the first time I have seen a trans guy in a mainstream show (I don't watch hollyoaks or whatever the show was that recently had an FTM in it, hopefully the view is much more progressive) and I was disappointed.

Not to mention, whenever transsexuals are mentioned in a ''normal'' tv show, it's usually derogatory. Countless examples against MTF's, which disgusts me, how blasé and crass the comments in everyday prime time shows can be. I can't state an example per se, I'll find some, but generally the whole 'I ACCIDENTALLY SLEPT WITH A MTF! HOW DISGUSTING!" ... uh... And nobody bats an eyelid. We're all people, with feelings, and even without this degradation we have our own self issues, hating the way we look or the body we were born in (generalising) to deal with. Max's partner in the L word, who breaks up with him, said something basically along the lines of 'you make people uncomfortable, they will always give you a second look and will always question what you are and you will never fit in' and the show seriously didn't give the impression that what she said was wrong, and certainly didn't give the impression that what she said was totally out of order.

...............Anyway today I watched Boys Don't Cry for the first time and uh, bawled my eyes out afterwards. Based on a true story, granted, so hopefully bound to get it right but it really made me feel terrible afterwards. Not because it was bad but because it was good, and because it was real. Brandon died the year I was born even and it really got to me about how many of us out there are suffering and we seem to have the least support from the ''LGBT'' community. Seems like the L and G look after each other but disregard the B and T side.

TV is the most popular medium to reach out to the more lgbt -  uneducated crowd, imo, and be it via film or a series I really believe there needs to be something done about this. I'm just about to look into what media related things there have been for transexuals, but afaik I'm pretty clued up on what's popular on TV and in film and there is nothing with us in it, portrayed fairly and accurately.

And I mean to include everyone who feels they need to be heard with this post, not just transsexuals but questioning and the whole spectrum.

[Kerberos]

Even though the L word was really unrealistic about gay women, I felt the Max character and how the show wrote the experience for FTMs was really intentionally biased and very negative.

I remember one episode where he was raising money for his top surgery and the guys they showed with post op chests were just awful looking and looked like they had been all cut up. Like getting top surgery is butchering to ones body. I know that everyone's body is different and we all get different results, but my take from that show was total anti-trans each and every related episode.

Now my experience (and this could be very different from others) with the LGBTQ scene has they have always been ignorant of trans issues and not wanting to associate openly with those who are transgender and transexuals. I always had the worst reactions from gay women when I first came out and began to transition. It was very negative overall.

Politically speaking, I've found trans issues to be ignored and dismissed by the LGBTQ organizations. Like we bring them down in how the general public see them. We aren't "normal" or good enough for them but at the same time they want to be seen as inclusive so we get a letter in their identification group as a whole. But nothing else.

I should stop ranting now. 

[NXTransit]

A huge irritation for me was watching Chaz Bono's documentation on OWN. Worst trans* show ever, horrible depiction of what testosterone does to you. I wish my mom had not seen that because it gave her a horrible insight on what I "want".
stupid chaz
I understand he wants a celebrity face for the FtM community it's just... I don't think it should be his.

[Wolf]

I was discussing this with my friend and we were talking about how, when it comes to support, we lose some of... ugh. I'm not some kind of 'omg Trans community YEAH' fundie or something, so please don't get that impression from this post- we lose some of our 'own' after transition- those who become 'stealth. Obviously, that is a personal choice, and I understand it so don't let it seem like I am insulting anyone who is stealth. Plus the boundary is a bit fuzzy there, what I mean is someone who just cuts off from the 'community' and disassociates themselves with anything to do with it in order to just live a normal cis lifestyle. I am happy for them, but in turn it means we lose support and knowledge and all sorts of things that people pre everything need, and what the transsexual ''image'' needs- that of ''well adjusted'' individuals coming out the other side with their success stories. What I am saying is, it doesn't help that a big portion of transsexuals disappear once it's all over for them, if yout get what I mean. I don't begrudge anyone who has done that (in most cases; I don't personally know anyone who has) but it doesn't help.

We need to come together and fight for this one. I'm going to get all riled up about this, but with us there is so much shame and so much embarrassment that it feels like we'll never have enough people around to stand up against all this misinformation and outright prejudice. Things that come inherent with our problems. In no way am I saying lesbians or homosexuals had it any easier, but we're inherently at a disadvantage when it comes to amassing some kind of campaign that will get noticed- there's less of us, being transsexual in itself means you do not want others to know you are transsexual, and people coming out the other side of transition often disappear off the map.  Before I came out I literally had no idea about transsexuals. I knew about everything else but was completely in the dark that how I felt could be made better and that I was not alone.

Finally, in my experience, I've encountered people undedicated about this who would appear to be the type who would be very prejudiced (chavs, in this case, on a bus) but when we explained it to them they -kinda- got it and were just cool with it. It can be a confusing subject. IT does push the way people think and the way society has moulded people. I don't expect people to just know what's going on, so if nobody's telling them, how is it ever going to change? 

[NXTransit]

I was discussing this with my friend and we were talking about how, when it comes to support, we lose some of... ugh. I'm not some kind of 'omg Trans community YEAH' fundie or something, so please don't get that impression from this post- we lose some of our 'own' after transition- those who become 'stealth. Obviously, that is a personal choice, and I understand it so don't let it seem like I am insulting anyone who is stealth. Plus the boundary is a bit fuzzy there, what I mean is someone who just cuts off from the 'community' and disassociates themselves with anything to do with it in order to just live a normal cis lifestyle. I am happy for them, but in turn it means we lose support and knowledge and all sorts of things that people pre everything need, and what the transsexual ''image'' needs- that of ''well adjusted'' individuals coming out the other side with their success stories. What I am saying is, it doesn't help that a big portion of transsexuals disappear once it's all over for them, if yout get what I mean. I don't begrudge anyone who has done that (in most cases; I don't personally know anyone who has) but it doesn't help.

We need to come together and fight for this one. I'm going to get all riled up about this, but with us there is so much shame and so much embarrassment that it feels like we'll never have enough people around to stand up against all this misinformation and outright prejudice. Things that come inherent with our problems. In no way am I saying lesbians or homosexuals had it any easier, but we're inherently at a disadvantage when it comes to amassing some kind of campaign that will get noticed- there's less of us, being transsexual in itself means you do not want others to know you are transsexual, and people coming out the other side of transition often disappear off the map.  Before I came out I literally had no idea about transsexuals. I knew about everything else but was completely in the dark that how I felt could be made better and that I was not alone.

I agree with you dude. One guy who just cut out the LGBT community was GoodnightQuietCity on youtube. He got harassed at a gay bar by a guy who asked if he was trans then stuck his hand down his pants. I feel extremely bad for sean, but that doesn't mean he should cut out of the 'community'
anyway, I will rile up with you lol

[justmeinoz]

It varies here in Australia.  On the one hand there are plenty of well handled stories on current affairs shows about people struggling to overcome their problems. They are usually quite sympathetic.
And on the other hand you get the twits on "Sunrise", morning show going on about Chaz Bono coming out and treating it like a joke and using terms like "he-she" etc.  They usually cop a serve and their switchboard lights up. Their newsreader had to apologise for referring to the Sydney Mardi Gras as having "disgusting" elements a while ago.
As far as I know "Neighbours" and "Home and Away" have not had any trans characters yet.  They still don't seem to be able to do a gay storyline that is significant.

Karen

[NXTransit]

Even though the L word was really unrealistic about gay women, I felt the Max character and how the show wrote the experience for FTMs was really intentionally biased and very negative.

I remember one episode where he was raising money for his top surgery and the guys they showed with post op chests were just awful looking and looked like they had been all cut up. Like getting top surgery is butchering to ones body. I know that everyone's body is different and we all get different results, but my take from that show was total anti-trans each and every related episode.

Now my experience (and this could be very different from others) with the LGBTQ scene has they have always been ignorant of trans issues and not wanting to associate openly with those who are transgender and transexuals. I always had the worst reactions from gay women when I first came out and began to transition. It was very negative overall.

Politically speaking, I've found trans issues to be ignored and dismissed by the LGBTQ organizations. Like we bring them down in how the general public see them. We aren't "normal" or good enough for them but at the same time they want to be seen as inclusive so we get a letter in their identification group as a whole. But nothing else.

I should stop ranting now. 

I agree with you also about the LGBTQ organizations. Honestly, I feel gender variants don't belong with sexual orientations. It just gives people the wrong idea about how "we're in denial of our sexuality and want to be straight" =_=

[Wolf]

According to wiki there are only 6 films with an FTM as a focus, quite a few more with an MTF - but that include any incidental characters, and ''comedy'' films, and even then there really isn't a long list.

Some titles of episodes of tv shows are also really out of line, 'the he in  the she' (bones) I mean really what is this ->-bleeped-<- >:| people seem to think it's ok to make fun like that. I really don't think I'm being uptight about this.

I forgot to add in any of my posts so far that it's ridiculous that in the US health insurance doesn't cover transition. I am transitioning with UK's NHS, a heaven send and the best thing about this silly country. Without that I would be utterly boned, I come from a 'low class' income family. I'd have had no chance.

[Wolf]

It varies here in Australia.  On the one hand there are plenty of well handled stories on current affairs shows about people struggling to overcome their problems. They are usually quite sympathetic.
And on the other hand you get the twits on "Sunrise", morning show going on about Chaz Bono coming out and treating it like a joke and using terms like "he-she" etc.  They usually cop a serve and their switchboard lights up. Their newsreader had to apologise for referring to the Sydney Mardi Gras as having "disgusting" elements a while ago.
As far as I know "Neighbours" and "Home and Away" have not had any trans characters yet.  They still don't seem to be able to do a gay storyline that is significant.

Karen

Here we have jeremy kyle and such- the jerry springer type shows. And they aren't sympathetic, they sensationalise it and really often embarrass people on there. And example, an episode where a FTM and his dad are on the show, and the mother, and Jeremy of course had to mediate between two opinions yes- but everyone on the show apart from a transitioned MTF in the audience was ill informed and prejudiced. The guy was 16 I think and I felt so sad for him, sometimes you think the people that go on those shows are only doing it for money or attention or who knows what but I mean you could completely tell what he was going through was real, and he was probably there for help.

[justmeinoz]

Fortunately a Jerry Springer type show wouldn't work here. Too many  people would go on just to take the piss out of him.  People here do  watch him, but just to see how bad he can get.

We have had "Priscilla" here, but it is primarily a musical, so is slightly different in emphasis.
I have no doubt someone here  will eventually make a decent movie or TV show with a trans main character, even if it is along the lines of the movies "The Castle", or "Strange Bedfellows."

Which reminds me the latter actually had a couple of minor supporting characters who were trans or drag queens, but were treated as normal people who welcomed Paul Hogan's and Michael Caton's characters into their community.
It is a very uplifting and warm hearted movie, as well as being extremely funny, and a genuine Aussie Classic.  I wouldn't be surprised if it is remade, set in another country town elsewhere in the world.

Will Coronation Street beat us to it I wonder?

Karen.

[Ratchet]

I was discussing this with my friend and we were talking about how, when it comes to support, we lose some of... ugh. I'm not some kind of 'omg Trans community YEAH' fundie or something, so please don't get that impression from this post- we lose some of our 'own' after transition- those who become 'stealth. Obviously, that is a personal choice, and I understand it so don't let it seem like I am insulting anyone who is stealth. Plus the boundary is a bit fuzzy there, what I mean is someone who just cuts off from the 'community' and disassociates themselves with anything to do with it in order to just live a normal cis lifestyle. I am happy for them, but in turn it means we lose support and knowledge and all sorts of things that people pre everything need, and what the transsexual ''image'' needs- that of ''well adjusted'' individuals coming out the other side with their success stories. What I am saying is, it doesn't help that a big portion of transsexuals disappear once it's all over for them, if yout get what I mean. I don't begrudge anyone who has done that (in most cases; I don't personally know anyone who has) but it doesn't help.

In part, this makes me somewhat, sad. Not because it's false. Because it's so very true. I do not identify as being a transgender specifically. But in all technicality I am. I feel somewhat like one of those people who would just ditch out on the community once my transition is complete. I've never played an active role in the community, nor have I met any trans in my area. I've been interested but not actively seeking. I think you're accurate in saying there needs to be more people standing together trying to relay the message. But to be honest, I'm way too chicken for that. I don't have the guts to be judged or looked at like that. My biggest fear is telling someone that previously didn't know, that I was born a girl and them forever looking at me like "Look at her, I mean him..." Or the whispers to their family or friends about me, and how I was born a girl but now think I'm a guy. I just can't stand the thought of someone ever considering that I was anything more then myself. At no point was I a girl, my body just lied to everybody (haha, so I say).

I want to work within the community, but be stealth. I want to help those in situations, without being a face of it. I know it's such a chicken way to do it. I want to become a doctor. Maybe even go in a direction of working with some trans people directly, but in stealth personally. I wish there was more media out, but to be honest, I watch it more out of curiosity. At times, I wish I could have the balls some of you completely out, proud people have, but I don't.

I completely understand what you mean. At the same time, I know I wouldn't be a person in that group to spear the media frenzy, the correction of people's misgivings. And I feel almost... shameful for that.

[Adio]

Last night, another online group I belong to touched on this topic (trans men in the media).  The sentiment was very similar, that so-and-so was annoying or trans men were ill-portrayed.  I agree that most trans characters are used for laughs or bit-parts or are seen as an oddity.  General ignorance of trans issues plays a big part in that which is possibly due to, like Devin mentioned, some trans people living stealth after transitioning.  I mean, look at how few have stuck around on this board after getting on T or having surgery.  Sure, a lot of the guys will post occasionally but they didn't get 1k+ posts by just sporadically posting.  I don't have the figures to back it up, but I'd be willing to bet that the bulk of those posts were made pre-T/pre-op.

As for myself, I'm relatively stealth.  Less than 10 people from my high school, less than 5 from junior college, and 2 students from university.  Others may have found out through rumors, but I didn't tell them myself.  Faculty were aware of my situation by necessity.  Some of my doctors know, some don't.  My family, some friends, and my boyfriend know, but that's about it besides some of my mom's friends.  It's just a "need to know" thing.

I don't feel like it's my duty necessarily to be "out and proud" or get heavily involved in the local community.  Maybe I would feel differently if the "local" community was closer to where I live.  But the greatest concentration of trans people, it seems, are about 2 hours west of me or 3 hours north.  I do feel the need to connect with others in my state, but mostly with resources.  I found it very difficult to find trans-friendly doctors and therapists as well as legal info when I was first transitioning.  I want it to be easier for others, but I mostly want to help over the internet.  Meeting offline...I'm afraid of being outed. 

For me personally, I view this as medical condition.  I don't feel like it's everyone's personal to know my medical history.  Do I wish things were different?  Of course.  But will I actively try to change it?  Probably not.  I do, however, want to be a FPMHNP (Family Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner) someday.  I'm interested in providing therapy and prescribing hormones, streamlining the process a bit.  I'm already an RN so it would just be another 2-3 years of schooling plus a lot of continuing education.  I seriously doubt though that I will be out as trans (although it may become apparent to my clients and other well-informed health care professionals).  And I don't see anything shameful about that. 

[Darrin Scott]

I agree with Adio. Sometimes I think we kind-of "owe" it to the community to be out and proud and I know for me, it's no one's business.

[Natkat]

I dont like the L word I felt the trans people there where too unrealistic and I only really watched it because shane where hot.. LOL
---------
the tvshow I watch who had a more or realistic relationship to trans people where hourou musuko.
some complain about the ending who is way diffrent than the comic but the emotions are very touching generally in the story, and the people arnt potrated badly.
--
"I agree with you also about the LGBTQ organizations. Honestly, I feel gender variants don't belong with sexual orientations. It just gives people the wrong idea about how "we're in denial of our sexuality and want to be straight" =_="

I dont see it that way. for me it more about the political statement. the thing about "love is love gender dosent matter" both refern to sexualety and gender identety, as it dosent matter what gender you fall in love with or what gender you are, as long as your happy.

the reason for dicrimination in the gay world is the same as for transgender people in the transworld.
some gay people feel they want to be seen as normal and like everybody ells, and they cant stand transexuals or people generally being more femenine or maculine than there biological sex as they feel it gives the wrong image and there scared of being misunderstanding as being extremly femenine or maculine just because there gay.

like some transexuals have big trouble with ->-bleeped-<-s because they want to be seen as normal but they think ->-bleeped-<-s get much attention and send the wrong signals.

it simple as that,
a endless fight between "we are just like anybody ells" and "no we are diffrent just accept it"

[Taka]

at least now i know that i shouldn't ever watch the l word, or maybe i should watch it just to know exactly what is wrong with it if people start talking about it

i'm planning to not be stealth if i happen to decide on transition as the best choice for me. i'm already seen as weird, the people around my age have rejected me already in grade school and middle school, so i don't have anything to loose apart from certain members of my family. but this is just because there's no way to be stealth in a community where everybody knows everybody else, and i plan to stay here for most of the rest of my life. but i totally understand that many just want to have a peaceful life as the person they really are

[Natkat]

at least now i know that i shouldn't ever watch the l word, or maybe i should watch it just to know exactly what is wrong with it if people start talking about it

i'm planning to not be stealth if i happen to decide on transition as the best choice for me. i'm already seen as weird, the people around my age have rejected me already in grade school and middle school, so i don't have anything to loose apart from certain members of my family. but this is just because there's no way to be stealth in a community where everybody knows everybody else, and i plan to stay here for most of the rest of my life. but i totally understand that many just want to have a peaceful life as the person they really are

watch it to drool over Shane.. LOL

[Noah G.]

I think there was an episode of NCIS which involved a trans woman; I personally felt that they handled it really rather well (with the exception of pronoun usage, but otherwise I felt it was really rather respectful, especially considering it's basically a military-based show). This comes with the disclaimer that I'm very hard to offend, so others may be more sensitive to this. In a different note, I believe it was Criminal Minds which involved a gay victim and that team was very much respectful in that instance as well. But I know that's a little off-topic.

Personally, I've always identified as a man while knowing that that makes me transsexual (well, when I realized there was actually a term for this), and I've generally had it easier than a lot of trans or even other LGBTQ people. Consequently, I do plan to be as stealth as I possibly can, and I haven't been entirely active in the community: I help or offer advice or input where I feel I can or it's warranted, but otherwise there's actually a lot that I have a hard time relating to. Or that I at least have no experience with. But I'm always willing to help where I can.

I've struggled with whether I would disconnect from "the community" once I'm "done" with my transition, but at the same time I've felt more like a visitor to the community than a genuine part of it if that makes sense (and this has absolutely nothing to do with the community itself, this is something I know has more to do with me). I think, however, that even once I am able to be completely stealth and there is little more left for me to do transition-wise that I would still be just as willing to help when and where I can, especially in the areas where I have wished there was more help or advice or experience available to learn from. Though whether I would be in a position to see opportunities as much, well, that remains to be seen -- I am bi, so technically even stealth I'll have a foot in the LGBTQ door. Even if I were straight, however, there are "straight allies" who step up and defend the LGBTQ community and its individual members.

Being stealth and being involved don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive endeavors. "Out and proud" isn't for everyone, it takes certain people to be willing to live life like that and it makes no one any less of a person to choose not to. That doesn't mean, however, that the rest have no options for helping the community and fighting prejudice, ignorance, and general lack of knowledge, and they don't even have to come out to do so if they don't wish to.

[Taka]

watch it to drool over Shane.. LOL

you just gave me reason to do something stupid..

my favorite trans gender themed series is the manga "family compo" by hojo tsukasa about a seemingly normal family where all have found their place in society, and their cis gendered nephew who moves in after his father's death. it's centered around this young man who has to cope with something he never knew existed within his own family, and with being forced to crossdress by members of the film club at his college. it's a comedy, and that's probably what allows it to touch so many aspects of both the gender and sexuality spectrums without getting depressing and angsty

[Cameron James]

The portrayal of Max in The L Word bothered me quite a bit. My girlfriend and one of our friends were rewatching the series before Netflix pulled it off Instant Streaming. When I voiced my displeasure to my GF she pointed out that Max was taking way too much T for a normal dose and was getting it of the street, so who knows if it was even really safe to be using.

Chaz Bono is....not my favorite person. He did an interview where he said that T changed his entire personality and that since starting T he hates "chick stuff." He's also stated several times that there is only male or female - and that there aren't any in between places in gender. I really don't think he should be the face of the FTM community either, but we'll see what happens with that. Hopefully he'll just fade into the background...

[Wolf]

I didn't mean for it to come across that I thought everyone should be 'out and proud', and I too think of this as a medical issue. Which is another thing people should be more aware of! I understand too that some people transitioning were never part of the community anyway, in the first place. But some people also draw from a lot of resources and disappear, and that's just the way it goes for us. I just wanted to point out that it makes it even harder for the problems we're all facing to get fixed, because of the nature of transsexualism.

@Ratchet I really admire your honesty here and I completely agree with the way you see things. I don't even know if I am able to be 'that' person, at the end of the day being stealth, if you can, is what we are aiming for, and if it wasn't for our predicament we would just be cis, and that's all there is to it. At the moment for me I have no choice, I don't pass all that much so when I meet people I pretty much eventually have to tell them within a few hours because it gets too awkward and confusing (with friends around who call me male pronouns). Don't feel shameful, you want to give back to the 'community' (it really makes me feel like a twat calling it that but there's no other word) but you also need to feel comfortable with yourself, and like others have said nobody needs to know your medical history if it's not absolutely necessary.

I'm going through a difficult period in my journey right now. I really hope I come out the other side much stronger and wiser, and I would love to make a difference. I think I'll spend a lot of time trying to think about what I can do, and start meeting up with the London groups and such. I like feeling useful, and it would be a dream for me if I could help the stigma and misinformation go away.

Again when I say us, our, community, and such I mean it in a friendly and open way, significant others and allies and anyone who agrees that things have to change and we all deserve fair social treatment. Similarly, again I really don't begrudge anyone who disappears into stealth-dom, in fact, I don't like calling it that. Those who do, they're just being who and what they would have been were it not that they were born different. Just that it adds to the issues we face in trying to fix the current situation, and it's an issue that can't be helped.